Have you ever considered the thin line where unconditional love could turn into something akin to Stockholm syndrome? This episode embarks on a journey to uncover the nuances of personal growth and relationships. We start by contemplating Elon Musk's capacity for emotional presence, despite the demands of his life—could the tech mogul also find success in the realms of fatherhood? We'll also tackle the Ship of Theseus paradox, revealing how life's transformations are mirrored in our mental and physical evolutions, especially through the community experiences like those found in CrossFit.
Navigating the intricate world of parenting, this conversation is a call to all those steering the ship of a child's future. We weigh the responsibilities and the impact of the digital age, considering the delicate dance between granting autonomy and imparting wisdom. The art of parenting requires a balance between discipline and freedom, success and failure, guidance and independence. Whether it's the challenges of ensuring our children engage with the tangible world or giving them the space for valuable introspection, we explore the methods to foster resilience and character in the leaders of tomorrow.
Finally, we touch upon the parallels between parenting and leadership, pondering the impact of adversity and the importance of equipping our youth for life's inevitable challenges. Steve Young's household discipline offers a lens into the power of consequences, and we reflect on how to maintain authority in an era of constant digital distraction. Through candid personal anecdotes and philosophical musings, this episode promises to light your way like a gentle moonbeam, guiding you through the complex yet rewarding journey of raising and guiding the next generation.
Have you ever considered the thin line where unconditional love could turn into something akin to Stockholm syndrome? This episode embarks on a journey to uncover the nuances of personal growth and relationships. We start by contemplating Elon Musk's capacity for emotional presence, despite the demands of his life—could the tech mogul also find success in the realms of fatherhood? We'll also tackle the Ship of Theseus paradox, revealing how life's transformations are mirrored in our mental and physical evolutions, especially through the community experiences like those found in CrossFit.
Navigating the intricate world of parenting, this conversation is a call to all those steering the ship of a child's future. We weigh the responsibilities and the impact of the digital age, considering the delicate dance between granting autonomy and imparting wisdom. The art of parenting requires a balance between discipline and freedom, success and failure, guidance and independence. Whether it's the challenges of ensuring our children engage with the tangible world or giving them the space for valuable introspection, we explore the methods to foster resilience and character in the leaders of tomorrow.
Finally, we touch upon the parallels between parenting and leadership, pondering the impact of adversity and the importance of equipping our youth for life's inevitable challenges. Steve Young's household discipline offers a lens into the power of consequences, and we reflect on how to maintain authority in an era of constant digital distraction. Through candid personal anecdotes and philosophical musings, this episode promises to light your way like a gentle moonbeam, guiding you through the complex yet rewarding journey of raising and guiding the next generation.
This is the Terribly Unoblivious Podcast.
Brad:Yep.
Dylan:I said it before and I'll say it again Life moves pretty fast.
Brad:You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
Dylan:Physically present, emotionally unavailable. I, emotionally that's. That's the complete opposite of how I feel now emotionally available but physically not present oh, I feel emotionally at the so brad. If I'm on mars and I'm here, which one's me?
Brad:not mars. You can't live there yet, oh but. If you do live there, grow potatoes I thought I was on elon's.
Dylan:I thought I was on elon's. Uh, tesla, no, you're on elon's shit list. I hope not, do you think? Elon musk is a good dad um, I think elon musk is probably a uh neurodivergent father and he probably feels some modicum of emotion for the child. I think he's emotionally unavailable, but I just don't think he knows how. That is purely Conjecture.
Brad:Conjecture.
Dylan:Could you see?
Brad:him suing his own kids.
Dylan:If he thought it was yeah, I could see yes. Short answer.
Brad:short answer yes, okay, that's all I need to know. Scariest place imaginable.
Dylan:I can see my dad suing me like, let's be honest, wow I don't need wow.
Brad:My dad's too smart, he knows he wouldn't get anything I don't know, I don't.
Dylan:That's what. What's the term we're looking for here? With love, uh, comes great responsibility or you just, you just love somebody unconditional, unconditional love, Is it? Yeah, I don't know. I there's a, there's a point where you gotta be able to just stop and protect yourself.
Brad:Yeah, but do you think the people that really do that like that have that unconditional love? Um, I think their brain's okay or they have stockholm syndrome oh well then their brain's not okay that's what I mean, yeah yeah, but it would kind of be the opposite of that, like what if you were a? Yeah, that'd be tough. Uh, like you watch somebody kill somebody else you know and you love the that'd be tough. Like you watch somebody kill somebody else you know and you love the person that.
Dylan:I go to the place right away and make sure I tell them in exact detail what I saw, because, guess what? You made that choice, not me. I'm not going to jail.
Brad:No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that, I'm saying like I love them.
Dylan:Like it turned you on.
Brad:No, no, no, no, no, like they did that in uh the like the most awful evil, whatever way possible, and people are still like I love them.
Dylan:I still love them yeah, well, this goes back to our last episode, which is, um, you're identifying certain characteristics, traits, maybe boards, if people remember that episode correctly, that aren't there anymore. That maybe aren't there anymore. They're different, different, yeah, so again, it's that hardware software debate.
Brad:So you're hugging a picture, yeah, sort of.
Dylan:I think there are people, um, I don't know. I think this happens in relationships. You get in a relationship with somebody and, um, you start to love each other and then after babies maybe, and you know some instances that go for a very long time, but I totally I
Dylan:I understand the idea where couples just say at some point we didn't recognize each other, and I'm not saying that there wasn't work put in that could have avoided that you know when that usually happens. But it's also that we've talked about people change. It's the theseus ship you know when that happens, minotaur? What when they joined crossfit gyms? I've talked about this with some people recently. It's funny. It's funny. You say that it's not just that anymore.
Brad:I think it covers some more lines.
Dylan:The CrossFit gym one is an easy one.
Brad:Look at mom wearing her new tights. It's doing deep squats.
Dylan:Especially in today's society, physical representation of yourself comes with a high degree of esteem. You know there's a high value you place on your esteem based on your physical appearance. Okay, but then there's also the endorphin aspect. There's the working out. But people that go to CrossFit they did a good job of making it community oriented. The debates out there for other episodes that's not today about what type of community that turns into. But you get someone that's felt underappreciated, not feeling the sexiest, whatever it is, and then they go and then they've got people cheering them on, They've got a community, maybe a support system they'd never had before. They start to see a transformation in a positive way. They're getting the physical benefits in terms of cardio, weightlifting et cetera. Again, that's a map. We talked about hardware, software. That's a hardware transformation. But it's also a little bit of, you know, grit in the terms of I'm making myself go to this gym every day and do hard things and I'm not, you know.
Brad:I think some of the the software change, though, is the uh challenge part.
Dylan:Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. It goes to grit. It's like forcing yourself to do this every time, but it's.
Brad:I the challenge part in the sense that I think people start, uh, maybe self-reflecting more, in the sense that ah, this is hard. I didn't think that I could do this, and now I'm doing it.
Dylan:I'm not just doing it.
Brad:I'm could do this, and now I'm doing it. I'm not just doing it I'm excelling at it. But like what else can I change? Yeah, like what else have I been slacking on? Like what else did I?
Dylan:think was insurmountable, that, yeah, that now I think maybe I can do. And so, going back to our original point, was when we saw this, as um have a lot of babies, people inside of crossfit gyms, oh, one person would join and if a, if a significant other did not join after a period of time, there was ultimately some changes in that relationship. I would say more than half that. I would say more than 50, 50 yeah but and also again, that's a small sample size of making over generalizations right now.
Brad:It's also skewed in terms of age right yeah so, like I think you, we definitely saw um yeah, like in general, like a 25 to 35 where um, you're either. Maybe you're in a relationship, maybe you're in a youngish relationship, or maybe you a young-ish relationship, or maybe you've been. But that's part of what we're saying, but that's also.
Dylan:At a young age you're starting to learn what you are and aren't capable of.
Brad:So it's also some people that I mean, in my opinion, why divorce may happen more often than not. That's probably wrong. I shouldn't even say that. But yeah, if you are with someone, if you're dating someone at 20 and you've been with them for six years and now you're going through some major changes especially if they're not so you as a person are changing and them as a person are still that 20-year-old yeah, that's probably going to be a a bit of an issue.
Dylan:So Firmware is not updating.
Brad:Yeah, yeah, you know where. You know where else things like that happen all the time. Motel six no.
Dylan:Oh, challenges. Are you going down the Misogi church? You always got to bring it back to religion could happen. I got in a religious debate the other night uh oh, on what it was. It was based on how big Jesus' beard was. That would have been better. I thought he was a L'Oreal model. No tears the.
Brad:That would have been better. I thought he had just. I thought he was a L'Oreal model no tears, the. What I'm just looking at that picture, that's what I'm saying L'Oreal, no tears.
Dylan:Is that what it is? I don't know. Look at that, look at those locks. It is an unusual Jesus picture A memorial of Jesus's death. What can his sacrifice make?
Brad:you. I got Jehovah's witness handwritten note to bring yeah, to bring the audience in.
Dylan:I got a? Um, this is um fine. No, not wide ruled. What's the regular rule? College rule, college rule. I got a college rule three ring binder, a legal pad, or it's not legal but three ruled Guys.
Brad:it's just a piece of paper.
Dylan:It's a piece of paper from a woman who just said DeerStyle family. I hope this letter finds you and your family doing well. I'm writing to you and your family. Unless you worship the devil To an important upcoming event, and then they gave us some and then there was kind of a little bit more about all the best. Um, you know, see you there. Uh, but hey Jesus.
Brad:All the people in this pamphlet are white.
Dylan:No, they're not.
Brad:That's how they're not. What no?
Dylan:I think you're colorblind, oh okay, I am. I think you're colorblind, oh okay, I am. Thank you for that you're welcome.
Brad:Um, I think I think this pamphlet.
Dylan:They just went to ai and was like make jesus a soap opera star yeah, but then he would be black because, uh, gemini from google got in trouble because it couldn't do any white um generative photos what?
Brad:do you?
Dylan:mean it. It only made um people of ethnic races, um yeah, because that's what everyone's gonna be.
Brad:That's yeah, I mean like technically that's kind of what everyone is.
Dylan:But more, more. So I'm just it's. That was definitely a pastel artist, no, no, it wasn't.
Brad:I don't think so. Parenting, that's what I'm talking about. That's where we're going to after. Okay, yeah, we're going to parenting, yeah.
Dylan:That's what I was talking about. That was a good intro to parenting.
Brad:Yeah, I was talking about, you know.
Dylan:I've come full circle.
Brad:All that business. Okay, kids are hard, hard you know, are they.
Dylan:I don't know people out there that have kids it's super easy, right?
Brad:I um here.
Dylan:I don't even like to make joke about jokes about kids, because I can, I I will not do well, so I don't speak on the topic very often because I know they're going to be difficult.
Brad:It's. I think the difficult part is that you are training someone for the future.
Dylan:That's a lot of weight, man.
Brad:So it's a lot of weight. So you are like we were just talking about grades and things like that and effort and all these kind of things, like we were just talking about grades and things like that and effort and all these kinds of things, and you trick yourself into thinking that you're trying to get them to perform in the moment, but the reality is is that you're trying to set them up to be successful later in life.
Dylan:Okay, it's a little bit of um, a little bit like we talked about with coaching with Martin. Um, it's not what's going to make you successful right now, it's what's going to make you the best going forward. That's gotta be hard but longterm. Yeah. Yes, um, when I was doing the book grit, or giving you the resources to understand what Teaching problem solving.
Brad:Yes.
Dylan:To take the L now. To take the W later.
Brad:Teaching, problem solving, but in a sense that they're tiny little monkeys snorting cocaine on a regular basis. They're like, hey, let's sit down, let's have a little talk about logic. And they're like let's do it.
Dylan:I'm in. I'm in dad.
Brad:This doesn't make any sense to you, does it no?
Dylan:What do you do when condoms are involved? What it's coming. How old is a phoenix? What no, it's coming. How old is Phoenix? What no, it's coming. No, okay, I mean whether you want to see. It's OM or UM.
Brad:OM or UM. I hate you so much. Took you a minute I hate you so much so I had sat down and wrote last night, Just you know that fine line you have to walk between. You seem overwhelmed Between being burdensome Over burdensome, that's too much. Right, that's redundant Overbearing, yeah, overbearing.
Dylan:Burdensome, burdensome, yeah. Burdensome, overbearing, overbearing, burdensome, burdensome yeah overbearing.
Dylan:Overbearing is probably a better word okay bird man overbearing to your kids versus lackadaisical what is the appropriate amount of rope, the, the proverbial amount of rope to give them to easy? No, but it is. It's, how, how far do you let them go to stretch? You know, to stretch their wings, yes, versus where do the consequences come in? And then how do you keep that balance? Yeah, there's a balance, uh, because you don't want them, obviously, to make such detrimental choices that, no, they can't come back from.
Brad:But if you're there to catch them before you know I, I'm kind of feeling now and people may disagree with me because of social media and all these kind of things. But what is social media? Uh, or video games or whatever you want to talk about. But in the Sandlot movie in the beginning this kid's playing with his Tinker Toys and Erector sets, erector sets and all that kind of stuff.
Dylan:I was super jealous.
Brad:It was such a nice set and his mom comes in and she's like go outside, get into some trouble. And yeah, I kind of feel like some, some kids need some of that. Like they're getting into trouble, but not really like they're getting into trouble online or they're getting in trouble texting or on Snapchat or they're doing stupid shit that way. But like, get, go, go out, like into the physical world and make dumb memories. Do something. Is that a bad idea? No, I don't know. No, I just uh, but maybe I, I don't know, maybe I was doing the same shit.
Dylan:Um, I mean, you were definitely disappointing your parents.
Brad:But also like In a different way, when you were like 11, 12, 13,. What were you doing? You weren't doing shit. Where was I going? I wasn't going anywhere. I was in the middle of nowhere. There was a yeah, there wasn't.
Dylan:There's a lot of downtime where you're just bored as shit, Like what am I going to do with my time? Where am I going to go?
Brad:How do this?
Dylan:I'm gonna listen to this cd a hundred times. Dude, that's a real thing. Sit in the room and just listen to music and ruminate. I'm gonna learn how to draw a fucking suck at drawing. Yeah, that's what I would do. God, there's so many emotions in, yeah, at that age I'm gonna draw houses, hate houses.
Brad:That's what I would do. Yeah, and look at me now. I'm totally fine god, I yeah.
Dylan:This podcast hasn't been blacklisted at all, they just need to be alone in their thoughts more.
Brad:That's what they need. It's so healthy. So, uh, so I was writing in my little blue book here and I hadn't written Kelly for two years. Okay, and sometimes it's weird, it's uncanny how I can come back to this thing, and sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's four years, and in the site in the same time period, like same month, similar days, uh, just say you want it.
Dylan:You have a cycle and series of two. Yeah, no. Multiples of two no yeah, two years, four years, use it two and four multiples of two, that two.
Brad:That was just an example. Let's not over generalize. Okay, all right, do you want to read? It give me it.
Dylan:Okay, it's a couple pages. Um, maybe paraphrase. I don't want to read it. Give me it. Okay, it's a couple of pages, maybe paraphrase. I don't want to paraphrase, all right.
Brad:Write your thoughts. This is my monologue Diatribe. Is it, I don't know, soapbox?
Dylan:It's not really a soapbox because it's just definitely a lot more questions than answers. We'll ask like a couple questions and then we'll get back to it what, what, what questions?
Brad:never mind, keep going.
Dylan:Oh, you want me to stop and we can talk about it yeah, okay, you get half a page and then go all right or like yeah, uh, I'm gonna skip the intro then, because that's boring for the past several generations at least, parents have a mantra that we want our kids to have a better life than we've had.
Brad:I'm not sure when it started, but undoubtedly it was when times were very hard, sorry.
Brad:And parents didn't want their children to endure the hardships that they did Pain, hunger, homelessness, violence, disease that transformed, probably post-World War II in the 50s Seemed to be a little bit more of a material plea. So you know, I grew up poor and with nothing and I don't want my children to do the same Again. It seems to make sense, Mm-hmm, but soon possessions became more available, cheaper to buy, credit becomes available, even to some that probably shouldn't have it or use it the way that they do.
Brad:And now kids have everything and more that they could want or need, but still we want a better and, dare I say, easier life for our kids, and dare I say easier life for our kids. So they're now without many of the physical hardships, say, from 150 years ago. They have material possessions, so now we wish for their feelings to not be hurt. So we will make up new rules and new ways to be offended, in hopes of having a new governing body that disallows said action that may cause such hurt feelings. All the while we continue saying it's for the better. But what is better? Even as I'm writing this, I'm hearing counter arguments that say life is better, we are better, which is true. I mean this. This may be the easiest times for some of us ever in history.
Dylan:Define better.
Brad:Maybe not ancient Greek. It's probably pretty good. Yeah, they were getting down.
Dylan:Yeah. Maybe, they had a lot of gay rights, something that we are. I'm just saying something that we struggle with today's age and something that they don't struggle with back then, which is um interesting to think about and is life better?
Brad:into this I say nuance those are two years ago, proud of me, I said nuance, yeah, did you spell it wrong. Did I, I don't know New A-U-N-T-S yes Is that right, new Chin, new Ants, newton, no Ants.
Brad:I know, yeah, the thing that is missing from today's discourse. We've gotten better as people in many ways, but we've also lost sight of how we have gotten here and the properties that allowed us to achieve this better life. And a lost sight of how we have gotten here and the properties that allowed us to achieve this better life. And maybe it's a cycle that we're in.
Brad:It's easy to say hard times create hard men, hard men create easy times, easy times create easy men and easy men create hard times. And I'm nervous right now that we're in the easy times category, and for sure these are some of the easiest times in history. The movement that needs to take place is a real sense of self-discipline that creates hard men over and over, so that we continue in a world that is continually getting better, without a weakening of the human spirit and drive. I don't know, is that true? So that in the sense and I think we talked about this a little bit, and maybe probably Masogi, like about comfort that if allowed the more. What do I say? What's the word I'm trying to use? All I can think of is blessed.
Dylan:I don't want to use that word. Have a blessed day. That we are, you know, like you have stuff. We need a thesaurus on this podcast. You know, Not entitled, no Gifted.
Brad:No, no, that's not the word. You know what I'm talking about. No, god.
Dylan:You've been talking this whole time.
Brad:It's so late at night, uh lucky, we're getting closer. Yeah, not lucky.
Dylan:Uh, come on people put it in my ear fortunate, fortunate, fortunate, fortunate, very fortunate. We are fortunate living this time so we don't have to worry about saber tooth. So those of us so Very fortunate, we are fortunate to live in this time we don't have to worry about Sabertooth Tigers and all this other bullshit.
Brad:So those of us that are fortunate and there's plenty of other people that are not as fortunate, that have to deal with a whole different number of hardships Fair wage lawyers we have All this shit, yeah.
Brad:But you also have a ton of people that do see violence daily and do have a hard time figuring out when they're going to eat next and where they're going to live at and who they can trust and things of that nature. But there is a very large population of us that are fortunate enough to have a lot of those basic things somewhat under control. So in that sense, in that category, we could live a life where we kind of just choose not to have any hardships, and in that sense I don't want hardships. So, like I don't, I don't want things to be difficult and I don't want my ideas to be challenged and I don't want hardship. So, like I don't, I don't want things to be difficult and I don't want my ideas to be challenged and I don't want my feelings to be hurt.
Dylan:There's a variance scale there. Um, it's or I shouldn't say variance, it's it's a risk reward matrix. I think it's the easiest way I can think about this and it'll oversimplify it vastly, but it gives us a framework to work out of high risk hard times. Hard times creates a lot of arbitrage. Arbitrage is a difference in market conditions that allow you to take advantage, to be able to. The easiest term you'll make fun of me is profit.
Dylan:But profit can be many things. It can be social profit, it can be monetary, it can be. Profit can be many things. It can be social profit, it can be monetary, it can be, you know, favors that are owed. It's a lot of things. So when the market is stable and it is easy, you don't make a lot of easy money in the market. A little bit different right now, with quantitative easing that happened in 09 to wherever we were into 2016 and some other things. And then you go into the government now playing the interest rate game, which is necessary. But we've had good market conditions for a long time. But the way the market works is not a lot of risk, not a lot of return, and in some cases that's good If you've got a good stockpile. Do you need a lot of return?
Brad:No.
Dylan:I just need to get to the next phase and or? Or what are your goals in life? Do you want to have a Mercedes when you retire or do you just? Do you just want to have your memories and make sure you can pay your cable bill and see your grandkids on the weekends? There's all these different wants and needs in the world.
Dylan:Where we get lost is I want my kids to have a riskless life, but then I also expect them to be the next president, or I expect them to be the next whatever. So you want them to be in a heightened position in the world, and there are absolutely people that there are absolutely people in the world. They got the heightened positions not by their own merit. But that's no different than saying I want my kid to be Michael Jordan when they grow up. The chances are not that great. So we don't look at the people over there that got to where they're at by not their merit and say, well, woe is me, that sucks, I can't get there.
Dylan:You need to look at the reality. So the more hardships, the more risk your children endure, the more opportunity they have to grow and to get ahead in life. So there's that whole balance. What do you want? Do you want them to be? You want them to be safe. Just understand that you're cutting their legs off and they're not going to probably be able to go as far. Not saying always, not always the case. There will always be the.
Brad:So that's essentially what I was getting at. In the past. These hardships have just been part of your natural life.
Brad:You have to endure them to keep going, and people that endured them better did better. You either survived or you thrived, or you got the food or you got the house, or you got the job. Whatever it was Maybe food poisoning Possibly and as civilization advanced that changed. So you got a better job. And again, I'm not equating all of these things to fairness or equality or any of that, but because there's a wide range of that. But if we can say the top performers endure a decent amount of adversity and we are living in relatively safe times, how do we as parents engineer a certain amount of that adversity?
Dylan:You're playing Jumanji. Do we even need to?
Brad:I really don't think you need to.
Dylan:I think the world's still enough of a dangerous place on its own.
Brad:I mean, the world's not the kindest so I think part of the issue is is the kids like we were just talking about, like they're not necessarily out in the world anymore? No, like that's, how do you push? Them out there I think that's a little bit of an issue. I I mean, I've talked about this with uh, with other coaches, and we've talked about this and I think when martin was on one time we talked about it. Like kids, don't just go out and and play like pickup in in decent sized groups anymore, it.
Brad:It happens on small scale and there's definitely like, oh, my neighbor comes over and we're gonna shoot baskets and and that kind of stuff. But not like we organized a six on six football a game and we went down to the field and then we beat the shit out of each other for two hours yeah like that kind of stuff and I don't see that happen nearly as much as it used to.
Brad:does that mean they're not playing games? No, yeah, they're playing fucking more games than they ever played, but everything is neatly regulated and overseen by officials and parents and coaches and and all that stuff and software and software. What?
Dylan:Oh, you go play call of duty or whatever they play, it's all. There's a. It's a game referee there. You can't break the rules in those games, yeah, but you can talk some shit.
Brad:Yeah. But, that, but see, that's, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's zero consequences.
Dylan:There's zero consequences you talk shit on the blacktop, you get put down. I mean, you could, yeah, you better be fast or strong, or so what we're really saying is you need to figure out how to let your kids get punched in the face.
Brad:That's a form of adversity, yeah.
Dylan:You know or?
Brad:or just like, um, uh, not getting everything they want when they want it, or I mean, and and parents are the the culprits of this? Because everything is is easier. I, oh, you want this thing. I don't have to. I don't even have to get up out of my chair right now. I'm on Amazon Click. All right, yeah, I'll be here in two days. Not a problem. I didn't really have to think about it if the money was not really an option. Oh yeah, that was $12.
Brad:Yeah, I'll get it for you. I don't know, I don't know about that. Is that a good thing? Probably not. I mean, again, there's nuance. Yeah, it's super nice to have shit like that, but also it's going to be a real problem.
Dylan:How do you structure it? In a way, because there are a lot of people in this world that probably, if they had resources, could probably do a lot of people in this world that probably, if they had resources, could probably do a lot of good, but just never had the resources to be able to make that happen. So how do you? How do you cause I don't like the polar opposites here, which is I've seen it where people are like my kids need to know what it's like for me to grow up and I had a really hard growing up and I got over adversity and I got to where I'm at and I'm going to. I made something of myself and now they need to know what that's like without any help.
Dylan:And you're like okay one. You beat the odds, because even the even with a tenacious attitude, the odds are stacked against you. So now you're saying I'm going to let my kids go out and do it all on their own. Absolutely, they should understand the value of a dollar, they should understand the value of hard work, a lot of these things. But if you were able to instill the right ethics or instill the right work, value and all these things into them, why wouldn't want. You want to give them a leg up.
Brad:No, I think that's. That's what we're talking about.
Dylan:I was trying to find that median and that's yeah, it's not like a, this isn't the oh. I had to walk up to school, uphill both ways, six miles each way.
Dylan:It's a how do you make them? How do you make them understand the consequences of the world and the stakes that there is for the rest of their life, but then also give them that leg up, because that's been like, oh, I want my kids to have a better chance, and it's like there's a balance between getting them to understand the world as it is but then giving them that leg up, but not in such a way that they don't still have a drive.
Brad:Yeah, and also I think some of us just figuring out what is actually important and giving them that leg up, yeah, you know. So are we really, when we are trying to help them, are we really helping them with the values that will cover a broad range of things, depending on what their specific goals in life are, because you don't know what those are going to be at 10 or 13 or 15.
Dylan:And you touched on this earlier. Am I now causing harm by harping on them over a C plus in seventh grade, over something silly? And now I've? We've created a communication gap between us because now they don't trust to talk to me because of a weird one-off instance. Or was I saying hey, you understand that C plus probably wasn't really your best effort here, why? You know what was happening in your life, where do you need to go and how do we not make that a C plus next year? And again, grades are subjective, by abilities and so many things. Um, but understanding that there's a longer game than just the moment. And just because your son got a B plus and my son got a C minus doesn't mean I need to be jealous of your son and then take it out on my kid.
Brad:No, and one thing I was thinking of earlier was, um, me telling stories of raising kids and you telling stories of, like, managing people at work. Same thing, man, it is, and it isn't so like you in the part that isn't, is the attachment part right? It's like the, the intense emotion that you feel over things that you wouldn't feel in any other circumstance.
Dylan:I don't know, man, I, I, and maybe that makes me a bad leader, um, but I, I, I think I get most angry, and it's not when there's a screw up, like the script doesn't bother me, it's the, it's the thought or it's the belief in them that you're better, like you. You have an innate ability, but better than that. So why did we make this mistake? And there's also a little bit of probably shaming myself, of like why did I allow this to happen?
Dylan:And not in a controlling way of like I need to control everything, but how wasn't I able to better prepare them? How wasn't I able to put a better process in place?
Brad:So yeah, and that's a, that's a, that's a balance, that's a definite link to parenting, for sure, um, and if, if you're not experiencing that link, then I think you need to self-reflect a little bit more and self-reflect and not ruminate right, because you are two autonomous beings. So, yes, you have influence and direction over them to some extent, and yet they will still perform their own actions according to whatever they think is going through their monkey coked out brain at the time, so can we brand that?
Dylan:yeah yeah, terribly Unoblivious. I'm sure Maki Coke, the newest candy bar.
Brad:I'm going to start drawing.
Dylan:the cartoon Is it going to be like little square chocolate chunks with like a little white powder ball in the middle.
Brad:No, it's a line.
Dylan:It's got to be a line. Okay, a line in the middle.
Brad:So this is yeah, yeah, it's a struggle and it's something that I don't. I don't get to witness other people giving speeches to their kids, so I don't know. Maybe a lot of you are doing the exact same thing, but I feel like I'm giving ted talks on the regular. You know, on uh I, what I try to focus on are the, the general topics. So you focus things like effort, you know, like can you, can you put out some effort and be proud of of what you did? Whatever the outcome is? This thing was hard and I tried my hardest and the the result was mediocre. Okay, that happens, shit's hard, you know. Or did you put out no effort and the thing was easy and the result was mediocre? Okay, it's different. That's when we're coaching young kids.
Brad:We, we try to introduce the concept of you know you can lose well and you can win poorly, and what does that mean? Okay, that's how you start thinking about those things. That's kind of an easy introduction to to that, things like setting goals and and making plans and trying to start understanding really basic systems. You know like, hey, this is a trapper keeper. There's a folder in here for each subject. You can put the subject matter in the folder and they're all in the trapper keeper and if you bring the trapper keeper to school you have all your fucking shit together.
Dylan:Yeah.
Dylan:It all goes back to why.
Dylan:Now, it all goes back to why and really and this is something that I thank God, my parents will listen to my podcast. I look back and there are many times that my dad in particular told me something and there was maybe there was an initial attempt at a why, but it may be, and don't get me wrong extremely busy human being was trying to make a better life for my brother and I by working his ass off, um, you know, and he ran some complicated companies and his attention necessarily wasn't always a hundred percent geared towards us. He was trying to do the best he could with the resources he had, but sometimes the Y just never got across and you're like, okay, I see what you're saying, but you're kind of just giving me the because I said and you're like okay, I see what you're saying, but you're kind of just giving me the because I said and that it's not just on the on your child to listen to you, it's on you learning how to communicate with them and get that why point across.
Dylan:You know, there's a. I mean, there is a, there is, there is a level where it's like okay, we've gone overboard. You know, i'm'm not saying like that's chopped down every tree to get there because they're, they're young, to your point, they're cracked out monkeys.
Brad:I think I'm doing that what I think.
Dylan:I'm just what I don't know, chopping every tree, or just too many wise. There's too many wise?
Brad:yeah then so, and that's the so you're saying you didn't get a lot of wise and so the cure so this is things I didn't get a lot of whys.
Dylan:So this is the thing I didn't get a lot of whys. I just had a very aggressive consequence and I just did what I was supposed to because I was more afraid of the consequence than the why. But it wasn't to the best of my abilities. It was just enough to scrape past that consequence, Whereas I think if I would have understood the implications and the implication yeah, the implication if I would have. I don't know, this is what it this, there's so many things that you mean.
Dylan:It's so easy to armchair quarterback this, again, it's not. There's so many variables, but that's when it's easy for me. I don't have kids, I have not.
Brad:there's so many variables but that's why it's easy for me. I don't have kids. I, I have a, I have a group of of, yeah, but but you were a kid and you had parents and now you're an adult so like you can look back on that and you can say and and so uh, going back to that book grit, like she talks about this, parenting for grit or parenting, with grit or whatever.
Brad:And she gave two, two very different examples, and one of them was Steve, young quarterback, and his so he's Mormon and very strict, set rules in the household and but also very loving, supportive parents.
Dylan:Yeah.
Brad:And on the flip side there was another I can't remember the specifics of it, but it's another girl and they kind of they had really loose, um, I guess, household rules but also consequences for for not doing things as well, and so essentially that's. You know, it's a sliding scale and you're trying to to ride the middle of that thing. Where you have you do have to have consequences, like there needs to be some structure and some some reality checks and some adversity and things like that. That, okay, no, you have to do these things right, and if you don't do these things, then this is going to happen, but at the same time, that encouragement and positivity and support, you know, for that thing, so that it's not just do this or else.
Dylan:Do you think that with your kids and you were just saying I feel like I'm always making wise for them do they feel enough consequence? Probably not. Okay, I'm just curious to be like okay, well, dad's going to come in with this and we'll get through the diatribe, we'll get through him pontificating about something for a while and then we'll we'll go back to the idea that we'll give it our best effort and then we'll just kind of say fuck off and go on because we've never felt anything.
Brad:Yeah, um, yeah, hmm. And here's the real ball kicker as a parent, what is that?
Dylan:Sometimes real ball kicker as a parent, what is that? Sometimes, the consequences are the things that you have to put up with. See, and that's one thing I'll give my parents, I give them a lot. They were never afraid to infringe on their lifestyle to make sure that my brother and I felt pain. Yeah, no, they weren't my, we had I. I forged this. I. I bombed a test in fourth or fifth grade I don't remember fourth or fifth grade and I forged my dad's signature on the on the teacher slip. Was it good, got past him, but it didn't get past the teacher. What's that? Say Whoa, yeah, true story.
Brad:How did it not get past her?
Dylan:There's a whole other thing there. We had other issues, and that's a whole other episode. Okay, but she I, literally my dad caught me forgingging and he was like what are you doing? I'm like nothing, you know the whole thing. And he was like let me see that. And he was like this must've been a while ago, cause I don't remember signing this and I was like yeah, it was a while ago.
Dylan:I was really yeah, anyway. But she called my parents, dylan forged a signature, they came in and there was a whole meeting and um.
Dylan:We had box seats to a packers game in lambeau field boxes. Dad's like you're not going, yeah, and he was like he spent a lot of money on those tickets, yeah, and he was just like you know. And he's like you're not doing it, yeah, and that was you know. And there was many times like that where that just just one instance. But they were never afraid to make their lives harder to make sure that we felt something, and that's uh, that is hard it is to do.
Brad:Uh, because you, whenever I'm arguing with the kids, you know like, you think I want to do this, you think I want to be an asshole. It's like, yeah, I guess some people are just naturally assholes, but for the most part like no, like, yeah, you, you want to do fun shit with your kids and you want to have a good time, and you know you don't want it to be, uh, just a fucking nightmare all the time. So it it is. It is work to do that.
Brad:Um, I don't know and I and I think now, maybe more than ever, it's it's so easy for parents to give up, so you're like you know what? What do you like? Ipad parents yeah, what do you like.
Brad:I like my iPad, ipad, parents, I'm going to take your iPad away. I want your phone and I want your iPad. And then, all of a sudden, the kids are like hey, what are you doing? What are you doing? Want to do something? What are doing? What are you doing? Want to do something? What are you doing? Hey, we'll go outside. I know it's 20 below zero. We go outside, can't go outside. We'll play a game. You like board games. You'll play monopoly.
Dylan:My my brother and I still tell the story about going to dinner parties with our parents or family functions, whatever. And if we were the only kids, sit in the corner, entertain yourself. No phone, no iPad, and guess what, if you embarrass us in front of our friends, it's going to be miserable for you when you get home. And Griffin was always really good about stuffing a couple of matchbox cars in his pants, and I remember, like someone's house had, um, a crazy amount of like, um house plants, like big house plants, and we just made our own matchbox car track and but it was all in that corner. We didn't leave the corner of that living room because we weren't allowed to.
Dylan:Yeah, and then you would raise your hand when you need to use the restroom, like, like. And then we had a path. We're like no, you got to go from that leaf to that leaf, had a great time and actually the night went really fast, but it wasn't just we're gonna cause a ruckus and then people have to work around us. We worked around the dinner party. We didn't yell, we didn't scream, it's just this whole, it's a whole thing. And I see people now are like oh, we just we need to make sure the kids are included. You're like, no, you don't. They can probably learn hierarchy. Maybe It'd probably be good for them and figure it out.
Dylan:Again A little bit bit. They'll figure it out what they can't. You put some parameters on it. I am interested to see because, again, this is all preparing for the unknown future were you the center of your parents lives, or were you just kind of a byproduct?
Brad:no, I don't think, and this, this my parents didn't stop living their life.
Dylan:This still is. My parents were like we love you, we're going to take care of you, we're going to do as much as we can for you, but mom and dad are still going to have nights out. We're still going to do this and if you're, you know like our feelings were really taken into account for a lot.
Brad:Yeah, see, we came from different backgrounds.
Dylan:so like I think still to this day, although to a less degree, um, like growing up, your parents just worked yeah like those my dad would come home at seven o'clock at night, like, and he was like, yeah, busy day at the office, or I was out of town and both my parents were back early and you know they were.
Brad:They were home at early.
Dylan:You know 5, 4, 30, whatever or they checked out for a little bit, though, while they recouped.
Brad:Well, they're probably checked out for most of the night.
Brad:Yeah, you know um, and so you just, I don't know, so no, I wouldn't say uh, in the sense that, like, when they got home, it was just like oh, what do you want to do? Whatever you want to do, we'll take you anywhere. You want to do this, when you do that, and it's like that wasn't a thing and you didn't have fucking have anywhere to go. No, like, where are you going to go? Yeah, like you know, I'll come out when I'm done reading the entire paper. Yeah, I didn't. And then he went, and then he would and I'm like, yeah, it's dark out.
Brad:I I need this right now, which is this disconnect time so and and also, yeah, it's so, it's different, so it's, it is a little bit of uh, so what you know, what was his dad like? You think he was like super attentive and just like whatever you want to do, but but that's the thing is.
Dylan:Your dad making the effort to come up by dark was probably different. It was probably a hundred times more than his dad ever would have done for him. So that's, that's my point, and it's, it's, it's a little bit every generation but we're trying to do too much too soon.
Brad:You don't have to give them everything. We're doing that and we're dealing with a lot of. Obviously, the technology thing is way different. I mean, we're parenting in a way that no one has had to parent before. You guys have to parent.
Dylan:It's almost 4D man. It's way different, it's not.
Brad:So not only are we doing probably more than what we should.
Brad:So it is a little bit like how do we retain some of that, some of the good stuff yeah, not like don't look at me funny or I'm gonna break your nose stuff. You know we don't want that stuff. Um, but some of the like, I'm gonna slightly neglect you for a while, because that's what I mean, yeah, or like my dad did it, when I mean I've talked about this before with cars and stuff like that, where, like he could have just come out, I'll be like, hey, I try, I tried this thing. I'm having a problem with it. I can't figure it out. He's like, yeah, I'll come out when I'm done reading the entire paper, okay, so, so then I sit out there for three hours and still try to figure it out and I don't figure it out, and then he comes out and then five minutes later, good to go.
Dylan:Controversial statement. Hot teaching. Hot takes teaching your children that while they may be unique, it doesn't make them special.
Dylan:Yeah, and also because when you teach children that they're special and I'm not saying you, there's a, there's a whole meaning special, you can be like, you're my special person, Like there's all these things like for close, intimate, fam, familiar relationships. You know you're, you bring so much joy to me as a child. You know I love that. But to teach someone that they're special and that the world needs to bow down to that special, that has to be earned by the whole world. It's not just what you and your immediate family thinks. You know, and whether you think how some stars in this world are treated or not, that's indifferent. The market speaks. They sell something that everyone wants and it's it's hard, it's it takes hard work yeah, and the special part is different than being loved yes like it's, they're two separate things exactly
Brad:so they're not one of the same. No, all right, so I'll end with the okay, the end of this ending. Ending, ending. Um, so I do not wish for children to be thrown into the world with no recourse for adult guidance, but the absurd hand-holding is not the way to go either. Nuance they must face pain to no empathy. They must face adversity to no problem solving. They must face fanaticism to learn reason. They must face hardship to no self-reliance. They must face disappointment to no self-worth. And along the way, the adults in the room must give guidance to open their minds to these ideas. Not so much a ray of sunshine is a low wash of moonlight. Guidance is not a path so much as a way of giving vision to see a path. Perhaps lately we are giving our kids too many paths and too little vision it's pretty pretty good way to sum it, man thanks not enough Thanks, not enough vision.
Brad:Make it a hot take. Don't give your monkeys cocaine.
Dylan:And for that, ladies and gentlemen, look for the new Wonka Bar coming out tomorrow.
Brad:You're still here, it's over, it's over, go home Go.