When the microphone goes live and the recording light blinks red, there's no telling where the conversation with Kevn Kinney of Drivin N Cryin might venture. This time around, we found ourselves caught in the crosswinds of Atlanta's rock scene, reminiscing about the landmarks and laugh-lines of a city that's as much a character in the music as the strum of a guitar. Kevn's personal recollections, peppered with tales of his Gaelic heritage and the unintentional rechristening of his name thanks to a utility bill, set the stage for a chat as rich and varied as the band's discography.
Atlanta's thrumming heartbeats echoed through our discussion as Kevn spun yarns of the community that fostered Drivin N Cryin's unmistakable sound. We unpacked the backstories of crowd favorites, peeled back the curtain on the artistry of busking, and delved into the joys and jitters of live performances.
And if you've ever wondered what it's like to jam under the glaring lights of Late Night with David Letterman, well, Kevn's got the inside scoop. From the whirlwind of improvisation with Paul Shaffer to rubbing elbows with the stars, we tumbled through memories like loose guitar picks. Every performance, whether on a street corner or the Letterman stage, carries with it a story—and in this episode, we strummed through many, each note a gateway to the next.
And this is just Part 1.
www.drivinncryin.com - On tour through September.
www.kevnkinney.com - Select shows through October.
www.tastygoodyrecords.com
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com.
When the microphone goes live and the recording light blinks red, there's no telling where the conversation with Kevn Kinney of Drivin N Cryin might venture. This time around, we found ourselves caught in the crosswinds of Atlanta's rock scene, reminiscing about the landmarks and laugh-lines of a city that's as much a character in the music as the strum of a guitar. Kevn's personal recollections, peppered with tales of his Gaelic heritage and the unintentional rechristening of his name thanks to a utility bill, set the stage for a chat as rich and varied as the band's discography.
Atlanta's thrumming heartbeats echoed through our discussion as Kevn spun yarns of the community that fostered Drivin N Cryin's unmistakable sound. We unpacked the backstories of crowd favorites, peeled back the curtain on the artistry of busking, and delved into the joys and jitters of live performances.
And if you've ever wondered what it's like to jam under the glaring lights of Late Night with David Letterman, well, Kevn's got the inside scoop. From the whirlwind of improvisation with Paul Shaffer to rubbing elbows with the stars, we tumbled through memories like loose guitar picks. Every performance, whether on a street corner or the Letterman stage, carries with it a story—and in this episode, we strummed through many, each note a gateway to the next.
And this is just Part 1.
www.drivinncryin.com - On tour through September.
www.kevnkinney.com - Select shows through October.
www.tastygoodyrecords.com
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com.
Hey, this is Kevin McKinney from Driving and Crying, and you're listening to Music in my Shoes. He's got the feeling in his toe-toe. He's got the feeling and it's out there growing.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge and you're listening to Music In my Shoes. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 29. As always, I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. So back in June of 1990, I moved from New York to Atlanta, georgia, and when I got here I asked people what can I do so I can feel Atlantan? I wanted to feel like I belonged here in Georgia. Now I don't remember what everyone said, but a lot of people would say I got to go to the Big Chicken and I'm like what the Big Chicken? What the heck is the Big Chicken? But I do remember a bunch of people saying have you heard of Driving and Crying? I said no, I don't know what Driving and Crying is. They and Crying is. They said it's a band. You got to listen to them.
Speaker 2:They're even better than the Big Chicken.
Speaker 3:I hope so. I hope that they're better than the Big Chicken. So I told everyone I never heard of them, but it wasn't too long before I did and I'm still listening to them 34 years later, and sitting in the studio next to me is none other than singer-guitarist from Driving and Crying, kevin Kinney. Kevin, thank you for joining us and welcome to Music in my Shoes, welcome to Music in my Shoes.
Speaker 1:It's good to have you. I used to tell people my name is Kevin Kinney, like the shoe store, which meant people used to know about Kinney's shoe stores.
Speaker 2:I forgot about Kinney.
Speaker 1:yeah, Kinney's shoe stores, but now they don't exist anymore, because people usually call me Kenny, kevin me Kenny or Calvin Kennedy.
Speaker 2:That's it Now, speaking of your name did you drop the I, or is that the way your mom spelled it? I dropped it.
Speaker 1:The Milwaukee gas company started sending me bills that said K-E-V-N, so I thought I liked it. And then it's kind of Gaelic, where my grandmother was Gaelic, you know. So I left it, liked it, and then it's kind of Gaelic, for my grandmother was Gaelic, you know. Oh cool, so I loved it that way. So, by the way, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:It's good to be here with you. Let me ask you have you been to the Big Chicken?
Speaker 1:I have. Not only have I been to the Big Chicken, I was here. You know, my brother lived in Marietta when I first moved to Georgia in 1982, I think October 82. And before Google Maps, there was the Big Chicken. So everything was based on the. If you're going to Marietta, you're west of the Big Chicken or east of the Big Chicken or north of the Big Chicken. So yes, I've been to the Big Chicken. It's just KFC, no big deal.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's just a good thinking.
Speaker 2:For a chicken it's a little bit of a letdown when you get there, but they did fix the eyes, the mouth and the eyes work.
Speaker 1:Now I don't know if it worked for a long, long time.
Speaker 2:I never knew they were supposed to work.
Speaker 1:But I will tell you that I pumped the brakes on the drinking three years ago and in lieu of drinking, I have now been collecting board games, and one of my prestigious board games is the Big Chicken Board Game.
Speaker 2:I had no idea, I did not know Very rare, did not know about the Big.
Speaker 1:Chicken Board Game. I have a Big Chicken Board Game. I've never opened it. It's not brand new but it's still sealed.
Speaker 2:So maybe someday we can all open it together Cobb Parkway or something you know what I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Well what kind of bands did you listen to when you were growing up?
Speaker 1:Well, when I was growing up I was really into bubblegum music. I'd say everything that was on Kama Sutra records, you know the Ohio Express and the Yummy, yummy, yummy. The Archies was huge to me, the Monkees were huge to me. Archie's was huge to me, the Monkees were huge to me. Anything bubblegum was really really cool to me because it was my first. I was born in 61. So right around when I was seven, 1968, flower Power, hippie, sippy, candies, things like that, the Partridge family, things like that were really. That was like 19th century, yeah, really into psychedelic bubblegum music was my foray into music, was really my favorite stuff up until you know, I guess early 70s I started morphing into my brother, had some Beatles stuff, leon Russell.
Speaker 1:I started morphing into the George Harrison world via George Harrison. I was getting into the Beatles but I think my portal was George Harrison. I loved my Sweet Lord. I loved here Comes the Sun, and then I loved all of his offshoots. I learned about Dylan through Harrison. Here Comes the Sun, and then I loved all of his offshoots. I learned about Dylan through Harrison. I learned about Leon Russell through George Harrison. So he's like my portal out of the bubble gum into.
Speaker 1:And then I'm 14 years old, 75. I see the Rolling Stones for the first time. I really get into the Stones. I get your guys out June 8, 1975, $10. I go see the Rolling Stones and the Eagles for his first tour and $10, general admission.
Speaker 1:And then 75 is rolling around, this guy, bruce Springsteen. He's playing the theater down the street from us, become a huge Springsteen fan because he's the secret, nobody knows who he is. And I'm really into like, right around, right around the stones era. I'm getting into like, uh, learning about blues things because I'm in milwaukee but it's kind of an old man thing in milwaukee, like because all the chicago people come up there. It's kind of like blues is not cool to me yet, but like 50s rock and roll is really big to me, you know. So I really got into uh, buddy, buddy Holly and Gene Vinson and all those guys.
Speaker 1:And then this guy, bruce Springsteen, comes along. I'm like, well, this is like. And so like I'm kind of a greaser Not really, but I'm kind of really into that. I'm starting to hang out on the streets a little bit and smoke cigarettes, and so this Springsteen guy comes along and I'm like I try to teach all my rockabilly friends about this Springsteen guy and they're not having it. They're like, nah, they're not having it. And I'm like, but he's, really, you should see him. And then, what was the beauty of Brie Springsteen was that you couldn't hear him on the radio and you couldn't see him on TV. He never did film. He didn't do it. I think Dancing in the Dark was the first time he ever allowed himself to be filmed and it was unfortunately not the greatest version of him.
Speaker 3:What was that with Courtney Cox? Courtney.
Speaker 1:Cox, yes, but before that he was a real mystery and it was really underground. So he was an underground artist and he was mine. He was me and my 10 friends who knew who springsteen was and would go see him religiously, spent seven dollars, 50 cents, sit in the seventh row. You know, it was like I saw all those early, all of his early tours uh, that from born to run, and then he did a bunch of tours between Born to Run and Darkness because there was a big break in there, because he was being sued or something like that, and then Darkness was huge, and then the river, and then Born in the USA. I was in Georgia and that's when I went and the arena was like and I was like, okay, I got to, yeah, it's not your secret anymore.
Speaker 1:I'm pumping the brakes on this because he's not mine anymore, which sucks because Driver to Cry has suffered just being a little local band. I mean, we're a regional band. If you live in New York, you don't know who Driver to Cry is Montana, seattle nobody knows who we are, schenectady or Albany, I know you're in Chicago, though I went with my buddy in Chicago.
Speaker 2:A little bit we can sell 100 tickets in Chicago, that's about it.
Speaker 1:We're playing up in Berwyn next month. There'll probably be 150 people something like that, which I love doing that. But yeah, you know how, when you lose your you know, which is kind of why I was a lifelong Ramones fan. I still, to this point, up until like now, when I see kids on the street with their Ramones shirts, I'm like name me a Ramones song. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I was like yeah, right.
Speaker 2:You don't know the Ramones Urban Outfitters Right, which is okay.
Speaker 3:Top dollar for those shirts too. Yeah, it's insane. And they don't know a single song. It's really funny because our last guest was Jimmy Barron, who was former DJ here at 99X and he talked about his love for Bruce Springsteen. But it started at Born in the USA, right, so kind of where you were talking about everyone starting to pick it up. That's when. That's when I bailed, right.
Speaker 1:It's kind of funny going back to back, it's weird because my friend Jesse Malin feels the same way about REM he likes Do you know who Jesse Malin is? He's a great artist in New York City. You've got to check his records out. Will do. Really great artist. He feels that way about REM. I'm like he really loves later REM like Hi-Fi, all the orange crush and all.
Speaker 1:He really kind of likes the later REM. He's not really into the earlier REM. I was like, oh, that's something you almost never hear in Atlanta because they're all like reckoning murmur all that. So I think that's really interesting when you have people who find different eras. A lot of people say to me you know, I love your first record. You know like, oh cool, if I'm courageous, it was really great. I was like, oh, that's kind of my fourth record or fifth record but. I'm like I don't hey man, whatever.
Speaker 2:But the probably you know that they really is the first one that people in chicago, probably ever heard. Yeah, yeah, I noticed that when I went to see you guys in chicago with my friend the, the song they got, the biggest response was fly me courageous, which is not necessarily. I mean, it gets a big response in atlanta too.
Speaker 1:But right, like everybody knows more songs than that in atlanta yeah, honey, circle blue has become the biggest song since jason isabel it, and they do it in their show, so that's kind of taken on a and straight to hell. Of course, like I won't get paid if I don't play that.
Speaker 2:I remember the first time I heard that song because you guys were playing it in your live show for several months or a year or something, before it showed up on the record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was actually around before our first album. Oh really, I wrote it like it used to be, like I think there's a version of it on. Peter Buck did our demos for us on Mystery Road record and we released a double album Mystery Road that you can. It's very, very rare but you can get them, and we put a made a two disc set, so we have the remastered Mystery Road and then the second disc is the demos for it, which Peter Buck was going to produce, mystery Road. So he did demos for it in Athens at John Keene's where I made this record, mcdougal Blues and there's versions of Honey Stuck on the Street, the hell without words, or I'm just riffing, I'm just making up words as I go, so I'm going to be honest, I have it, but I have it through Apple Music.
Speaker 2:Is it great?
Speaker 3:I do have it through that.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:So Mystery Road there's a demo, but Mystery Road there's a demo, but Mystery Road's not on the regular album. No, I didn't make it, but it's a great song, Is it? I think?
Speaker 1:it is Okay.
Speaker 3:I'll start playing it. Seriously, I think it's a great song and I was going to ask you, why is it not on when the album's called Mystery Road? You have the demo, but it didn't make the final cut. Yeah, I don't know why.
Speaker 1:Maybe it didn't have a good version of it, I don't know. We probably I don't know. That's a really. I don't know what I was thinking back then. You know.
Speaker 2:I want to listen to it now.
Speaker 1:I mean I started that record off with a. I probably would have been good to open the record with that. It's opened up with a song called Ain't it Strange, which is like fiddle. It was like da-da-da-da-da, I don't even know. But I mean I know that by opening up with that, a lot of people just were like, yeah, it's not for me. We should have opened it up with Toy Never Played With or Honeysuckle Blue. But a lot of DJs were like, yeah, I don't get it. People in France hated it.
Speaker 3:What was that? So my card here says I love the opening track, ain't it?
Speaker 1:strange. Oh really, I love it too, thank you. Well, you might love the two, you know. So, uh, oh yeah, good, well, thank you, I love that song. I mean, I do. It was one of those songs that I wrote, like when we were like we used to busk in Little Five Points, you know, and like sit in Fellini's. The Little Five Points pizza used to be a Fellini's.
Speaker 1:So we used to busk inside there, you know like sit in the window and play for tips or whatever you know, and, like one of our guys, we used to have a little street band called the Gutter Eagles and we all were just living on. You know, we were all just living at the North High Ridge apartments down there. So, we just wandered and sat on the street and we had the guys from Uncle Green and the guys from 86. And the drummer from 86 wound up becoming the Jesus of their drummer.
Speaker 3:Steve.
Speaker 1:Albini, all that stuff. Wow, we had a cool little Chris and Rich Rich Robinson and all those folks. We were all part of that little.
Speaker 3:What was that? Mr Crow's Garden or something?
Speaker 1:They were called Mr Crow's Garden, uncle Green, mr Crow's Garden, think Jet 86.
Speaker 2:We were all graduating class, so some of the Mr Crow's guys went to my high school, including a guy named Jeff Sullivan.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, jeff did too. Yeah, so he was the first drummer I ever played with North Springs. North Springs, yeah yeah, jeff just did a song for this compilation that we have called let's Go Dancing, that my wife has put together of the 100 artists covering Driving Crime and Science.
Speaker 1:Oh, I heard about this, and the first two are the first one is pressed and released and the second one is pressed and sitting in our house. But Jeff did a version of Straight to Hell with Butch Walker and Elizabeth Cook for the second one, the country one, and he did Fly Me Courageous with Butch Walker and Elizabeth Cook for the second one, the country one, and he did Fly Me Courageous with Butch Walker for the third one, with Jeff and Butch Walker and it's really great. It's a good version of it. Oh, I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I bet it is. So you talked about being from Milwaukee. You talked about you moved down here. I think you said your brother was here. How did you? What was the deciding decision? Hey, I'm going to go to Atlanta. I'm going to start playing in bands. How did that process work?
Speaker 1:Being in a band was definitely not part of the equation. Moving down here to work was the main thing. My brother, who's an amazing musician, I must say, and he plays every instrument and a lot of people know who he is in the underground kind of bluegrass-y thing, but he's in the Georgia Music Country Music Hall of Fame of Georgia as an old-time fiddling thing. But he walked the Appalachian Trail and wound up living in North Carolina and then eventually in Marietta, big Chicken, and so he was, like you know, I was working in Milwaukee. I was, you know, I worked at record stores and then I worked at a pharmacy. As a pharmacy tech. I was probably making $1.90 an hour.
Speaker 1:He was just like you know, I was just sick of living in Milwaukee. You know, it's tough. It's tough living in Milwaukee. It's just, it's the land of things. That used to be is what I call it. You know, it's a hard place to grow up and it's cold. And so, uh, he said you should move down here. I get you, you know, you get a job as a laborer down here. You start at like 4.15 hours. I was like what? That's amazing, 4.15 hour. So, you know, I got a job at the Roswell sewage plant, you know. So I got a job as a laborer there and I was there for two, two and a half years or so, about two years. I was a form carpenter apprentice. I was a farm carpenter apprentice.
Speaker 1:I was a guild apprentice carpenter, were you playing music at all? I started after I was here for about I used to do open mic nights. I did one song. There was one song called Gotta Get Out of here. I would do my one song over on Roswell Road, I think it was called Baker Street. I think they would have open mic night. I would do one song and you've got to time your open mic.
Speaker 1:You don't want a headline, you want to play as early as possible because all the other people who are waiting to play are there. If you play last, everyone leaves. People are kind of selfish. If you don't play and stick around, they play and leave. So I mean just anybody who's starting open mic nights, play in the middle or the front. Ok, because people are selfish and they leave. But just a little note. And also, if you're making a demo tape, put your best song first. Don't create a story arc. If you give me your, if you're going to send me six songs that you think I should listen to, don't wait for me to build a story arc and give me your best song last. Put the best song first. So that's my advice to young artists.
Speaker 3:You've heard it from Kevin Kinney here.
Speaker 1:But I used. I think when I first started playing out, I did one song the same song Gotta Get Outta here with a guy in the Marietta Square, a little restaurant called Jimmy the Greek's, and there was a guy named John and he played piano and then he let me do one song. He's just really a kind person. But yeah, I started doing my demos with a guy from Milwaukee. I moved to Smyrna and this guy was uh, I live in Milwaukee, I live with a, my sound man. A guy was I worked for a sound company, for he's a saxophone player for this great band called the Oil Tasters. They're on Thermodar Records, which was a Jell-O Biafra's label, and uh, they were like morphine kind of you know, and they were great.
Speaker 1:And I moved down south and one of his best friends had a home studio and his name was Frank French and he lived a block away from me for like seven months. I didn't even know it. He's like you should call Frank French and do some demos. I started to write songs again, so I started making these demos at this Frank French's house, which turned into an album called Everything Looks Better in the Dark. When did you put that out? French's house, which turned into an album called Everything Looks Better in the Dark.
Speaker 1:And then I morphed in. I never put it out. It was on Twilight Records when Driver Crying had their second record out. He had released it with David T Lindsay, this writer in Atlanta, and Gary Held maybe put it out on this label called Twilight. It's the best album cover of all my album covers. It's amazing and we don't even know about it.
Speaker 1:No, you don't even know. I don't even have a copy of it, but it was my first demo that I played for Tim in his car when we were at the Celebrity Club watching RuPaul and he gave me a ride home.
Speaker 3:The.
Speaker 1:Celebrity.
Speaker 2:Club. I forgot about the Celebrity Club, yeah.
Speaker 1:Celebrity Club. You used to go see RuPaul there, yeah, so that's out there. You can get that on eBay. I think everything's been in the dark. It's not on iTunes. I'll have to look for that. But Frank, eventually he owned a futon shop on Piedmont, right over here, called Far East Futon, so I used to work there with some other girls that were in the Atlanta folk scene, friends of Melanie Hammett and then Kristen Hall, and then the Indigo Girls did their first demos with Frank. Eventually too, no-transcript.
Speaker 3:And you seem to be in the orbit with a lot of people in Atlanta. I mean a lot of people like you and think that you're a real likable person and enjoy playing with you and you can go on any sort of interview about Atlanta music and you come up. Why do you think people like being in your circle so much?
Speaker 1:Well, I think I'm a music fan First and foremost. I'm a music fan. I've always been a music fan. Before I could even play guitar, I would go see bands. There's a band called Die Kreutzen who is the first band I played with down here that Tim saw me play with before the demos and all that stuff the Violent Femmes. Brian had bands in high school and I would just go watch them practice. And then I was a roadie for a rock band called the Haskells in Milwaukee and the Oil Tasters and I would just sit there and watch them practice.
Speaker 1:I would love to watch bands practice. I love to watch. I love to go see music. I love to watch. I love to go see music. I love to sit and watch music. I'm a big supporter of music and any time anybody in Atlanta that I know I mean Bill Taft and all the guys Clay Harper, cap Hauer, anna Kramer, fran Butch Walker, I mean. When they put a record out, I listen to it and I text them a little review or something like I really love this, this is so great.
Speaker 1:I'm a music fan. So I think a lot of people just know that I'm a music fan and know that I'm a good listener. Like I say in my shows now, it's like there's so many people talking and not enough people listening. And I'm a listener. I'm here to listen to you and I'm an old school punk rocker. So I'll stand in the front row if no one else is in the room and standing at the stage. I'll stand up and be the only person standing at the stage because I love to watch. I love to watch the guitars and the and the pedals. I, I mostly I take pictures of bands. Like people take pictures of me all the time. I had an argument with rick diamond the other day. It's like I don't need any more pictures of me. You know like there's so many pictures of me. Like from the front row. I was like you know it's like get up, just take a picture of the, of the room or something. But but also I take pictures of pedal boards, people's shoes, the road cases.
Speaker 3:That's what's cool to me People's shoes, yeah man.
Speaker 1:Some of these rock stars wear really good shoes. Chris Robinson has some amazing shoes. Really, yes, they're probably expensive too. My friend Keith Strang from the Fleshtones always great shoes. Really, yes, they're probably expensive too. My friend Keith Strang from the Fleshtones always great shoes. Peter Buck great shoes. I'm hiding my feet now.
Speaker 3:No, I've been wearing these. I don't have great shoes.
Speaker 1:I've been wearing these sock and shoes for like two years now because I had this plantar fasciitis, so I finally found something to take it away and then I'm just now morphing back into wearing good shoes. Kat Power I saw her do her Dylan thing in Nashville and I said I really love your shoes, man. I was like she goes, I'll do it for 90 minutes, 90 minutes a day.
Speaker 1:I can do 90 minutes, so I've been starting to wear stage shoes again. It really does make you feel better, but I think you have perfect podcast shoes.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, I do appreciate that. They look great.
Speaker 2:There's a podcasting department at Kim's Shoes. You know what?
Speaker 1:I met David Bowie a long time ago. It's a long story, but he had really nice shoes. He had really nice comfortable loafers kind of, and khaki pants.
Speaker 3:He was always fashionable, he really was.
Speaker 1:He's a sweet man, yeah.
Speaker 3:Very, very fashionable. Yeah, so the song Scarred but Smarter.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Great song, absolutely love out. So the song scarred but smarter great song. Absolutely love that song. But you redid it on the flower and the knife and you had john popper yeah with you and it's so different, like they're both really, really good. I went the other night I saw you in car Carrollton oh, you were there, I was there and I didn't realize when you started playing Scarred but Smarter that it was that.
Speaker 3:Yeah there's another version of it. Yeah, it's just so different To me every song I know, I just know it the way it is. How are you able to think and be like, oh, let me just totally redo it, and sometimes I'm going to play it like this and sometimes I'm going to do this? John popper on here, the harmonica is just really awesome having him I just don't know how you're able to do all of that and be like all right, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 1:We're playing it this way and boom, just bang it out yeah, I went through a period at the show I said this you know, I really had an idea of redoing a lot of my early songs, like scar. Like I started with the song keys to me. That was the first one I redid, so like I have a version of that. That's like scarborough smarter. That's like keys to me, because the punk version was so fast. Like then we're doing it. I was handling no-transcript send me around where I repossessed all my songs, and I've done three versions of the Innocent. Now I have one that I did with Lydia Lunch that I put on my last record called Think About it, and now Driver Cry has another new version of it. We have another version of it that's kind of like this Garbage Smarter version. But what I do, though, I never change the words, I just change the music.
Speaker 1:So, I'm trying to keep it. It's the same words. So it's like the message is different and it lays differently. When I'm at a place like Carrollton where I want to do that song and I like the message of it but I feel like the power of the electric guitars when it's a seated thing like that, the message might get lost and just be a punk song and I don't really need to just do a punk show for those people because I don't.
Speaker 1:Part of the phrase psychedelia to me has always been making people think differently, so that's psychedelic music to me. There's the sitar psychedelic quote unquote garage band version of it. But then there's also the make people think differently part of it that I mess with people a little bit and so I'm trying to manipulate the show a little bit and that's a really important song to me. When I wrote that song I was like that's something that I could sing every night to myself to remind myself that it's okay. What are you doing is okay and it's really paid off tenfold because you know I opened my shows with a song called Song For Me and one of the lines in there is you know, I've just come here to sing to myself what I took off my shelf from under my bed till I cleared my head and I was ready to listen. And I've got some stern words for me to keep me complete and away from those dogs that kept me up all night long. They borrowed my soul to fill empty rooms. And I've come here to take myself back, pat myself on the back, say it's okay, I did it my way. I shot myself in the foot so I could go home, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's part of my first song when I open a folk show. That's the first song. And I've just come here to sing to myself and I've got some stern words for me. I love it, but it's about drugs, a little bit of the drugs. It kept me up all night long and people would borrow your soul and they'd steal from you. And then I got to this Fly Me Courageous, fly Me Courageous. And Colonel Bruce Hampton was one of my favorite people because he recognizes in me. He's like you look very uncomfortable being famous. I was like, absolutely I freaking hated it. I really hated it. I hated playing Lakewood Amphitheater. I hated the word sold out. I hate, I hate. You'll notice. Also, I don't watch people clap for me, like I'll always turn my back after the song, or I don't like it and I have noticed that.
Speaker 3:You know, I saw you this past weekend and I saw you in April and I did notice you seem to turn your back a bunch. Yeah, I almost thought is this like Sid Vicious, where he's turning his back like he doesn't know how to play?
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I'm just joking, but you know, it was very noticeable.
Speaker 1:Well, I just I'm here to play to myself. I'm not here. I'm not a rock star. There's great rock stars out there, you know Ed Roland, and this is.
Speaker 3:Collective Soul.
Speaker 1:Collective Soul. You know, chris Robinson, these guys are at a level that I'll never aspire to be, but I love it. I love watching them. They're so great Michael Stipe, that guy can own it. I love watching them. They're so great, michael Stipe, that guy can own it. Bono, those guys, they're great at it. And I'm just so uncomfortable saying if I say how y'all doing tonight very sick feeling in my stomach. I just not that, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But your crowd's got your back, I think.
Speaker 1:I'm comfortable in my underground world and I don't know what it is about my DNA about it, but I don't want to get too high. I don't want to be influenced by by how much you liked it, because I'm going to play it anyway and it's over now, and if you didn't like it, that's cool, I'm starting the next song, I'm already thinking about the next song, and that's cool. So I mean, I do hear it. Oh, they did like that. Maybe I should have turned around.
Speaker 1:But I'm always prepared for them to hate it. So I'm like maybe I didn't land that joke very well, or them to hate it. So I'm like maybe I didn't land that joke very well, or maybe I didn't land that song so well. So I'm always kind of prepared to move on. I think later in life I'll probably I'm 63. I'm figuring I could do this for time 70,. Probably I might take a bow every now and then. But right now I'm working on the story arc. Because, Driver of Crime doesn't have a set list.
Speaker 3:Oh, I didn't know that, and that's what I was going to ask you about. We've never used a set list. So kind of the way you're talking when you're playing at Carrollton, where I saw you, are you starting off with something and saying, all right, they dig it, they don't dig it, but I like this, so let's just go into this song. Or are you guys talking beforehand?
Speaker 1:How does that go? No, we don't talk about it at all Because I'll change my mind. Like I said to you, elyse you and Elyse, you're texting me today. I do, but I'll probably change my mind Do you call out the songs.
Speaker 1:Does Tim ever pick one? Very rarely. They know to stay away from my story arc because it'll screw me up a little bit. Ok, but sometimes me and Tim are on such a wavelength that we'll look at each other and we'll say the same song, which is very random Because I think he knows the story arc that I'm going for.
Speaker 1:But it changes with the. I mean, I decided a long time ago when I'm playing with other musicians I'll make a set list. When I play with Peter Buck, I always make a set list because he likes to change instruments and he's going to do dulcimer and violin so I can't really throw him curveballs because I want him to have his text ready and stuff. And even then I'll change it around. But it's what's really great about having the people that are in Driving Cry and Tim and Dave and Lauer, and we've had Seller and Aaron and Peter Stroud and everybody's Warren and Rick Richards and we've all sorts of great Warner Hodges. But they have to know at least 30 or 40 songs, like even at a minimum, and be ready to either improv on it or just go with it.
Speaker 1:And the length of the song is going to change. The solo is going to change. The structure of the song is going to change. There might be a break in the middle. There might change. There might be a break in the middle, there might not. There might be a cover in the middle. Like I think we did Smoke on the Water the other day.
Speaker 3:I don't even know why Smoke on the Water, but you also did. Why Don't we Do it in the Road?
Speaker 1:by the Beatles, and I have never we don't always do that. I've been to a lot of concerts I have heard anyone do.
Speaker 3:Why Don't we Do it In the Road? And I'm going to be honest, I don't think too many people knew the song. I'm singing it. I know it's kind of funny and I know people were looking at me like how do you know this song? But it's the Beatles. It's off the White Album. It's a great song. You did a really really good job with that song, thank you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Yeah, I mean I have to be like. What I was saying was I used to do set lists before, and then we'd get on stage and I'd have a set list and I think I started doing it because lighting back in, the people wanted to have the lights or something.
Speaker 3:They were like what's the lights going?
Speaker 1:to be. And then I would get to that song that I thought I wanted to play and I didn't want to play it, and I play it anyway and I'm to play and I didn't want to play it and I play it anyway and I'm not liking. I didn't want to play this song right now, like Scarlet Butterfly or something A song that I love, or Scarlet Smarter, but it's in the wrong place for me. I'm a little autistic, I think, and a little bit you know. So if it isn't working, I hate it. If it's not what I want, I can't handle it. I don't want to do it and I'll throw a tantrum like in myself. I don't throw it at people anymore, but I mean I used to, depending on what my intake was. So luckily, tim is really there for me. He's always got my back and I could just start a song and he'll know, dave and Tim will know within just the notes of the song.
Speaker 1:Now it also happened. If you see, we're in Carrollton. There was a moment in there where there was a song that was an E. It was like the fourth song that I forgot how to play it. I was going to do this song called I used to live around here.
Speaker 1:It starts like do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, and I started it and I froze. I was like I don't remember where I'm going with this and so all of a sudden the band joined in and we just started going doo-doo-doo. We just turned into this thing and then we broke it down and built it back up again and they knew that I was lost and they were like let's just ride it out, something will happen. And I figured out what to go. But that happens happens too. So you want to be cool, little moments of improv that might turn into a song later. So I mean, I just really like like I say, it's definitely a Drive and Cry is a team effort. Like I'm playing Roswell this Saturday with my friend Brian Howard and Dave.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, brian.
Speaker 1:That'll be a totally different. Like I did, I think I did that up there Right Up in the In Murphy, in Murphy, so that was, you could tell it's a little bit different. We have our own improv thing that me and Brian and Dave know We'll go to Jesus Christ Superstar or we'll go into some other stuff. But yeah, I just really want to entertain myself and entertain the crowd and give them a good. You know, I like to complete the story arc as I can and I'm also also listening. So I'm thinking I want to do one off every record if I can.
Speaker 1:I want to meld these things fly me goes with fly me. Courageous goes with Scarlet Butterfly, sometimes Indian Sky's. The Blue might go with that one High Circle Blue, that'd be good with that one. And so this is all stuff I'm thinking about as I'm singing the song before it. But I'm also listening to somebody in the 6th row and the 15th row over here and I'm hearing them say something like Malfunction Junction, which I'm like I don't know if I can do that, but maybe they'll like you don't know me because that's on the same record, and so I'll kind of just do it. And then I try to do 40 minutes and I do Acoustic Sec and I try to do Straight to hell a little over an hour so people can go home if they want.
Speaker 1:I don't make them wait two hours like I used to like if they hear it, they can go, and then and that gives me freedom to go do another set of electric whatever I want to do. So so when fly?
Speaker 3:me courageous. When you played it the other night, I don't know if you know, but there was some other event going on and they were blowing off fireworks professional fireworks.
Speaker 1:Oh fun.
Speaker 3:And it was really cool listening. Oh, that's cool. And you're looking over to the right and these fireworks are going off.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:And me and everyone else that was around me were taking our phones and were videoing the coming back towards the band and over to the fireworks. Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 3:But, it really was cool. That is cool, Like it's one of those things you're not expecting, but it really added a bunch to it. So back in 1991, I'm a huge David Letterman fan you guys were on Late Night with David Letterman and you did Fly Me Courageous. We did, and Paul Schaefer looked like that was the most fun he ever had playing and, if I'm not mistaken back then I think their band had a play when you had your band playing.
Speaker 1:Well, that was one of the first. There's a couple things about that. That was one of the first. Yeah, there's a couple things about that. First, I played Truth or Dare with some people in Asbury Park the night before, so I lost my voice a little bit. I stayed up a little bit too late in a hot tub smoking pot and so I kind of lost my voice a little bit. And then we were smoking pot backstage, which you could do for some reason, because I guess it was Saturday Night Live. People did it, so they didn't really object. So I remember we were pretty stoned, first thing. Second thing there was a moment when they stopped having bands and they would have the lead singer, would play with their band, and so when it was time for us to do it, I really was.
Speaker 1:I had Paul Shaper's phone number. I was like well, my guys, I would really love it if our guys could play. And I think he felt bad, like maybe that I said it. So he's like we're going to figure it out, we're going to figure it out, we're just going to make an orchestra or something like it. He was really super awesome. He was very open. He wasn't like no, this is my band. He was like yeah, man, he really was a cool cat who came from the Saturday Night Live thing. He's like what's the worst could happen.
Speaker 1:I think it pissed David Letterman off a little bit. In retrospect, when we look back, it was the day that he didn't get the Tonight Show, oh wow. So he was really kind of pissy backstage. It was kind of a not an asshole, but he was not wanting to be there, gotcha. I think he found out Jay Leno was getting his job that day, so that was a weird thing.
Speaker 1:So we wound up with four guitar players or something and Jeff was playing congas and there was playing drummer and then there was whatever. And then in the middle of it I threw Paul Schaefer a solo and he was like all right, I just walked over, I did my back to the camera, or whatever. I just walked over and said do a solo. And he was like all right and just walked over. I did my back to the camera or whatever. I just walked over and said do a solo. And he was like all right, and he did and we did it. He was so happy it was probably like an unrehearsed jam for it and I was so glad it was over when it was over, because it really was like being that Lucy show when she's on TV. It was just like being like that Lucy show, you know, when she's on TV. It was just like that. When the camera came on, I was like there was a millisecond where I was like I don't know how to do this. This is not wow. There's a lot of people out there.
Speaker 2:At least you didn't forget the song.
Speaker 1:I almost did though. Yeah, I almost did. You can see the first couple seconds of it is a little, but yeah, I'm really high. And Peter Ustinov, who is one of my favorite actors, because there was a movie called Logan's Run that me and my dad saw.
Speaker 1:And I really loved that movie. My dad always took me to dollar movies on Sundays. That was one of my favorites because it really dawned on me. When they escape the Logan's Run world and they're out there and they're running away and it's night and all of a sudden the sun comes up and they're like what is this? And then they discover day, what a day is. So I was like this is a great movie. And then when Peter Ustov is amazing in that movie he's the one, he runs his life, he's like running. He's living in the Capitol, in the Senate, he's living in the Capitol, he's got all these cats. So anyway he's there, but he's late. So David Letterman's really mad because he was his first guest and then he's stuck in the Lincoln Tunnel or something and so they have to put this girl, faith Ford, on first, who's like whatever. And then he gets to come on and I remember that I don't know if he was on before us or after us, but I do remember him saying to David Letterman, I believe I've met the Muppets backstage.
Speaker 1:I was so excited to shake his hand. I was like shaking. I was like that is Peter, that is like this is a big minute to me, like David Letterman's show was cool, but that was big. So were you, kermit. I don't know what I was, I'll be Kermit. I think he was yeah, but that was big. So were you, kermit. I don't know what I was, I'll be Kermit. I think he was, yeah, I think. So I don't know.
Speaker 3:But I will say, you know, paul Schaefer really added a lot. It was really cool to hear him play the organ on that. You know, I didn't really listen to. Like you said, there was 97 people on stage when you added the whole David Letterman band, right. But Paul Schaefer and you're right you did turn your back and he went and he was just jamming. It's a good song, it's a really good version, it's a great version of it. It really is.
Speaker 1:But that's what I'm into. I'm into versions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really is, it's a drag to have.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I mean I really because I really love the show that. You know, the Tom Jones show. You know there's really great. You know I really was. I'm really I love old.
Speaker 1:You know those bands on TV like that were live and the Tom Jones show had like Janis Joplin they had, and then he would do a song with them at the end. I don't remember was it who on there. I don't remember who was on there, but it would be like Grand Funk or something. So I don't know, it's just kind of like this is one thing, but this is also a live TV and there's Paul Schaefer who's this amazing musician and is a cool guy and I don't really care, I'm never going to be back here. I mean, I know this is a one and done thing. The guy is never going to have me back. I'm one and done. I'm not going to be totally like Paul Westerberg. I don't have those kind of balls to just in Saturday Night Live where they come out wearing a dress and playing a different song than they were going to play. I don't know why people get in trouble for Saturday Night Live.
Speaker 2:Elvis Costello why?
Speaker 1:would he be in trouble for that, isn't it? I don't know. I don't understand Saturday Night Live. Anyway, it's a good show, there's good scripts in it, but I don't know why they go around the country hiring all these improv actors and then make them do scripts Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good point.
Speaker 1:What's the point? Isn't it really just let them do improv? It might be great, and then just have the light guy turn the light off when he thinks the set's over, like they do at Dad's Garage, which I love going to Dad's Garage, anyway.
Speaker 3:I'm reverting. No, you make a good point, I'm reverting.
Speaker 1:No, you make a good point. I'm reverting into like do you want improv, do you want live TV or do you want live TV? If you're going to script everything and make everything, then it's not live. It's not really live. They're performing a script live, but when actors break, I think is the best part of that show. I think one of my favorite things on Saturday Night Live is that Stefan guy. Saturday Night Live is that Stefan guy. It's like he's talking about the newest clubs in New York. Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:He's my newest club it's called. Box. But it's so real because I lived in New York for quite a while and I was like that is so true.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if you ever heard, John Mulaney wrote those sketches.
Speaker 1:Did he?
Speaker 2:really he would intentionally hold things back from Bill Hader so Bill would be reading it on the teleprompter live.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that was John Mulaney wrote those yeah.
Speaker 2:They wrote them together, but John would always throw one thing in that was going to crack Bill up that he'd never seen before.
Speaker 1:That's exciting to me.
Speaker 3:Learn something new. That's what Music in my Shoes is all about.
Speaker 1:Music in my Shoes, I know it's a great thing and thank you for this podcast. It's a really great podcast.
Speaker 3:Well, I appreciate that. We appreciate you being on and talking with us. That's it for Episode 29 of Music in my Shoes and Part 1 of our interview with Kevin Kinney of Driving and Crying. Stay tuned for our next episode for Part 2 and the continuation. I'd like to thank our special guest, kevin Kinney from Driving and Crying. I'd also like to thank Jimmy Guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios located here in Atlanta, georgia, and, of course, the Vic Thrill for our podcast music. This is Jim Boge, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing, thank you.