Mitch Easter, the legendary musician and producer behind the defining sounds of Let's Active and R.E.M., joins us for an unforgettable episode of "Music in My Shoes." Mitch shares the intriguing story of how he crafted his signature guitar sound, influenced by English pop bands like The Move, to stand out in the early '80s rock scene. We unravel the evolution of "jangle" and discuss how it's been perceived over the years, along with insights into Mitch's musical upbringing under the influence of his parents and constant radio tunes.
Venturing into his personal musical journeys, he recounts the transformative moments that shaped his career, from the first thrill of hearing the Beatles to forming his own band. Relive the excitement of the early music scene, the serendipitous milestones, and the exhilaration of experimentation that marked the beginnings of a lifelong musical adventure. Mitch talks about the pre-Let's Active band, Sneakers with Chris Stamey and their 2024 shows. We also dive into the process of securing a record deal, the memorable making of music videos, and creative transition to solo artistry with "Dynamico" in 2007.
In the studio, Mitch shares his philosophy on balancing helpfulness and assertiveness in music production, offering a behind-the-scenes look at his collaborations with bands like Velvet Crush and Pavement. We reflect on the magic of producing R.E.M.'s early works, starting with their first single, "Radio Free Europe", and the special camaraderie among musicians. Our conversation wraps up with a nostalgic nod to the college radio movement of the '80s and the undying charm of R.E.M.'s music, making this episode a must-listen for both long-time fans and new listeners. Join us for a treasure trove of musical memories and industry insights.
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com.
Mitch Easter, the legendary musician and producer behind the defining sounds of Let's Active and R.E.M., joins us for an unforgettable episode of "Music in My Shoes." Mitch shares the intriguing story of how he crafted his signature guitar sound, influenced by English pop bands like The Move, to stand out in the early '80s rock scene. We unravel the evolution of "jangle" and discuss how it's been perceived over the years, along with insights into Mitch's musical upbringing under the influence of his parents and constant radio tunes.
Venturing into his personal musical journeys, he recounts the transformative moments that shaped his career, from the first thrill of hearing the Beatles to forming his own band. Relive the excitement of the early music scene, the serendipitous milestones, and the exhilaration of experimentation that marked the beginnings of a lifelong musical adventure. Mitch talks about the pre-Let's Active band, Sneakers with Chris Stamey and their 2024 shows. We also dive into the process of securing a record deal, the memorable making of music videos, and creative transition to solo artistry with "Dynamico" in 2007.
In the studio, Mitch shares his philosophy on balancing helpfulness and assertiveness in music production, offering a behind-the-scenes look at his collaborations with bands like Velvet Crush and Pavement. We reflect on the magic of producing R.E.M.'s early works, starting with their first single, "Radio Free Europe", and the special camaraderie among musicians. Our conversation wraps up with a nostalgic nod to the college radio movement of the '80s and the undying charm of R.E.M.'s music, making this episode a must-listen for both long-time fans and new listeners. Join us for a treasure trove of musical memories and industry insights.
Please Like and Follow our Facebook page Music In My Shoes.
You can contact us at musicinmyshoes@gmail.com.
Hey, this is Mitch Easter from let's Active and you're listening to Music In my Shoes. He's got the feeling in his toe-toe.
Speaker 4:He's got the feeling and it's out there growing. Hey everybody, this is Jim Boge and you're listening to Music In my Shoes. That was Vic Thrill kicking off episode 32. As always, I'm thrilled to be here with you. Let's learn something new or remember something old. It was 40 years ago when I first heard the song Room with a View by let's Active on WLIR radio in New York. This is a room with a view, seeing everything for what it is. We want to do what we want forever Singing.
Speaker 4:That chorus that I've been listening to for 40 years is Mitch Easter and we're lucky to have him calling us from North Carolina today. Mitch, welcome to Music in my Shoes. I appreciate you joining us. I'm happy to be here. Thank you, hey. So, mitch, you're a musician and a producer known for producing REM's Chronic Town EP and first two albums. But I didn't know that at all when I first heard let's Active and really didn't know that for years later. I just kind of knew you as the guy who sang with a different sounding voice and played cool guitar sounds and had good songs, and people like to say your guitar sound is the J word. But what do you consider your guitar sound and your songs. What would you say about that?
Speaker 1:You know, when the like the Left Active got started, I made this sort of deliberate change in my guitar playing. I just felt like I mean, I've been playing a long time at that point and I just sounded sort of like any other guitar player of the day who came up in the 60s and 70s and I wasn't really happy with a lot of rock guitar. A lot of it was kind of, you know, we'd heard enough of that and I didn't really ever want to do that. I was more inspired by the Move and some of these English bands that were really pop bands but they would have heavy guitars but with less active. I just thought I'm just gonna go for it. It's, you know, 1981. Nobody's ever heard of me. I'm just gonna have these sort of cleaner sounds and play in a different way, you know.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of deliberate to simplify and Dreamline or something you know, and I love these sort of angular kind of sounds that people were getting. You know, I wasn't trying to be jangly as much as I appreciate, you know, the gods of ancient jangle, like Roger McGuinn, who was fantastic. Um, I wasn't really thinking about that, but I think that in those days if you didn't have heavy distorted guitar. You had to be something pretty radical and that came to mean jangle, which I think used to be kind of an insult and I think now isn't. Is that Detect what people are meaning with that word? Yeah, that was it. When we started that band. I just wanted to do something like I hadn't done before, so I had these sort of cleaner sounds and I don't know. It really was kind of organic but semi-deliberate, just for my own amusement.
Speaker 4:You know to do something different yeah, and I didn't want to say the jangle word. I know that people have said that for a long time and I know people don't like to get necessarily pigeonholed into a particular sound. You know, a couple of months ago we had Ted Ansani from Material Issue on and talking about, you know, a 90s power pop band, and you know he embraced it. He said that's, you know, hey, that's what we were. And you know I was wondering. As time has gone on, it seems that you've definitely embraced it, more maybe than when you first started.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, the thing about all these terms is that they're just, you know, they're just real small, you know, and I guess it's just a human nature wants to label things and you know, put them in containers and I understand that.
Speaker 1:But you know, in this relatively still kind of, dare I say macho USA, there's always some kind of sense that you want to be as tough as possible. And tough wasn't really that much interest to me as a musician. I guess I just didn't care about making the official tough sounds. I think we're just stuck with that. I think loud and sort of alarming and disturbing is going to be seen as tough and sort of pleasant is going to be seen as like you're sort of oh, I don't know sort of about to faint or something you know. So I don't take any of this very seriously, but it is funny how these sort of notions live on, you know.
Speaker 4:It definitely is true. So you mentioned the move. What were some of the other bands that you listened to when you were growing up, either before starting to play guitar or after? What bands did you really like listening?
Speaker 1:to Well, you know my parents were of the age where they could have gone more, you know, against rock music or for rock music, but they went for rock music and many of their peers didn't, you know, thought stuff like oh that Elvis, he can't carry a tune you know, but they loved that sort of thing and they loved having the radio on.
Speaker 1:So I grew up with the radio on and when I was really little it wasn't really bands, you know, it was just like individual people, you know, and I just would be in the back of the car just taking all this stuff in and I always liked it and I always liked the sounds, you know, and I have these pretty strong memories of hearing stuff like I Remember you, by Frank Ifield and it kind of freaked me out. There was something about the sound of it that was like creepy but also fascinating, you know. So I was kind of thrilled to learn that later the Beatles had done that song when they were in their Germany days, you know, and so you know from those singers that were like that on into bands. Like the Beatles was, in my tiny brain, an improvement, because the Beatles sang in this very straightforward kind of way and the old singers kind of freaked me out with their quasi-operatic sort of frilly singing you on the radio, you know.
Speaker 1:So I was totally psyched about almost everything that sounded like a rock band if it had audible electric guitars, you know. And harmony, it could be the mccoys, it could be the nashville teens, it could be 11 spoonful. It was all great, you know and I just lapped it up, but I think when I got a little bit older I started really gravitating towards certain songs. One of the first real mind blowers for me was I Can See For Miles On the radio. It was just incredibly dynamic sounding. It still amazes me that track.
Speaker 4:Yes, by the. Who.
Speaker 1:And of course, the Beatles. The Beatles immediately seemed to have better songs than anything else on the radio. And they came out and there was a day that my parents went out to buy their Beatles records, which meant 245s, because we didn't have an LP turntable right, we could only play 7-inch records. Oh, wow so they bought them.
Speaker 4:I had that when I was younger. Did you? Yes, I did, it was an.
Speaker 1:RCA thing, you could stack things up, but that's all it did. So you know, the day they went and bought those Beatles records is still something I remember very clearly, you know. So everything did kind of flow downhill from them in a way. But you know, the thing is things were moving really fast and so people like Jimi Hendrix and stuff that liked the Beatles but did something else. I really love that. But I also had a big, just sort of like pop music thing. You know, I love stuff like uh, oh, you know those fifth dimension versions of jimmy webb songs and stuff like that too. I just, I just like those kind of songs and songs that burt baccarat wrote, so a combination.
Speaker 1:So anyway, by the time I was a teenager I liked the idea of like loud guitars and brash heavy who like things which is kind of all two came together on that Shazam record by the move, which when I heard that record, that was another like milestone for me. You know, chris Damie had it and I was like holy moly, this is the answer. You know, heavy guitars but nice pop songs that are interesting. Yeah, you know the guy already. It was kind of going into sort of a bluesy direction and I was less into that. I didn't dislike it, but I was more excited about the occasional funny chord or unexpected change in the songwriting. So that's a really general answer about the bands, because I'm really bad at lists, but I can describe these sort of milestone memories, you know.
Speaker 4:No, that sounds good. We definitely appreciate it. So let's active. Original members. I believe was Faye Hunter on bass, guitar and vocals, sarah Rom Weber, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, on drums, and your, yeah, rom Weber, and yourself on guitars and vocals, part of the North Carolina music scene. What led to the three of you forming the band?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, right around the time I started college, everybody kind of went in different directions and I was like very unrealistic about all this stuff. And as soon as I was out of high school, it's like okay, I'm ready to be a 100% in the music business guitar player, which didn't happen right. So by the time I was out of college I was kind of in a hurry to get something going on and most of my old high school era buddies were off in their own bands and stuff. But meanwhile Faye had started playing bass. I was in college in a different state and she was back here and had just gotten a bass from a friend of ours and could sort of instantly play, because she's just had a lot of natural talent and you know. So it's like, well, okay, there's her and there's me, that's why we need the drummer.
Speaker 1:And this amazing thing happened where within a couple of days, two different people that I know said there's this girl in chapel hill you need to meet, she ought to be in your band. And I'm like, oh really, I didn't know who she was at all, you know, and she was like still a teenager. But I met her and it was like yeah, you're cool and and we played with her and she's like, yeah, and you're also really good. So we had to kind of talk her into playing with us because I think she thought it was weird that these people who were drastically older than her meaning we were like 25 or something wanted her to be in a band with us. And she didn't know us either. But she did it and I was really pleased about that. It was the first band that I was in. That was sort of like my band, where I wrote the songs, as opposed to being with other songwriters who were, of course, much better than me, you know.
Speaker 1:So it kind of made me have to really step up to do that. And it was kind of thrilling, you know, because I would have loved to have been in a band with my old friends. But the fact that this was sort of like jumping in the deep end with people I'd never played with before was kind of good, I think. I think it led to a different dynamic than anything I'd done before and that's always a good thing, isn't it?
Speaker 4:Experimentation.
Speaker 1:That was great and we were fortunate too, because I had just done that first session with REM and they offered us an opening slot for them if we could do the show, and it was like two weeks after our first practice, that's something crazy, you know. So we just practiced a lot and went down and played with them and that was really cool. That was a good start because it was at the 688 Club in Atlanta, which was a pretty important place back then it was yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I'm originally from New York, but Jimmy, the show producer, is from Atlanta and is real familiar with everything that goes on. You know here whether it was in the past or the present, or the future. So he really knows a lot about that.
Speaker 3:I still got a 688 t-shirt we actually.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I do too.
Speaker 2:I try to get into it, but I just don't have it Cool.
Speaker 4:So I think the song Every Word Means no is more popular, but I still can't get enough of Room With A View, and I'm being honest. I mean Room With A View was the song for me by let's Active. I have truly been listening to that for 40 years. What was the inspiration for the song and why is it? I think that you could have sang the whole song by yourself. I know that Faye sang the song and you sang the chorus. How did that come back? What was the inspiration? What's it all about?
Speaker 1:I think when I was making it up, I had this idea that it would be really good to have lyrics that weren't in little blocks, like a lot of lyrics are in rock songs, that it would be cool to write a song that's a little bit more like a run-on sentence. And what I mean is do you know the song Forget All About it by Nas? It's on their second album, it's like that. It's like the words just go on and on and on and then it finally gets to this resolution and it's really cool how it does that. And I don't think Room of the View is quite as good about that.
Speaker 1:But I was trying to write something that wasn't just, you know, ba-da-dum, ba-da-dum, ba-da-dum. You know, I wanted it to just kind of go on and on before it finally changed. So that was the kind of concept, you know. And then it was a funny song because we couldn't do it with, like a drum beat. It just didn't work with drums. So it's a drum machine, you know, for most of it, and that kind of made it work. And then from there it just sort of turned into the arrangement that it has. But the thing about Faye singing the verses and me singing the chorus is that I just couldn't hit the notes. You know the first note of the verse is a G sharp and I can only hit that if the wind is blowing the right way.
Speaker 1:And I thought, well, if they can do that, and it'll be cool to have the two voices, you know. So it was kind of just necessity. It didn't occur to me at first to have her sing the verse, but I think it's better for it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when you sing the chorus and your voice and your style of singing, you know, back then everybody was trying to sound British, or the British people were trying to sound American, and I think you're just trying to sound like you and it was really super cool just when you would hit. You know that part of the chorus. And then when you were done, and then Faye goes into, I Wish I Was Invisible. It was just so cool and seriously I really have enjoyed that song for all these years and I sing it.
Speaker 4:I sing that chorus all the time because I think that, you know, it's one of those things that we think about and want to kind of aspire to. You know, seeing everything for what it is, we want to do what we want forever and you know, 40 years later, mitch, I'm still want to do what we want forever. And you know, 40 years later, mitch, I'm still trying to do what I want forever. You know, as I'm getting older and older. So I really think that song was cool and it definitely had a great meaning and I was lucky enough to hear it back then. You know, like I said, on WLIR radio up in New York. What kind of reception did you get, I'm assuming, mostly on college radio, but did you find that there were more pockets of certain parts of the country that wanted to listen to let's Active?
Speaker 1:That's a good question, I don't know. I mean, we didn't even try to play around here when we first started. It was like, okay, this is hopeless here in our town anyway. And so we did play earlier on at places like Moore, in places like DC and Atlanta and New York, and those were good places to play, you know. I mean, I guess we had the sense that bands like us were sort of doing things in those places. And here, you know, you were still relegated to New Wave Night, which meant Tuesday, you know, and we would. You were still relegated to New Wave Night, which meant Tuesday. I didn't take any of that too seriously.
Speaker 1:But you know what, as soon as we got our record deal, it all changed. It was so different back then because that whole record industry thing, as corrupt as it was, kind of worked Within a couple of weeks of us being on IRS and they put posters into record stores and stuff, we could see more people at our shows. You know it was amazing and and that. So that worked all over the country. Because, you know, every day was sort of a change in those years. It's like the kids were really looking for something new and they really jumped on music again. You know music sort of ebbs and flows, you know in terms of how important it is in the big culture.
Speaker 1:You know music sort of ebbs and flows, you know in terms of how important it is in the big culture, you know, and it just came bounding back, you know, in the early 80s, and it was great that we were there for that because, um, you know, within within a year or so of kind of putting out that ep we were playing, you know, in in nebraska and california and places that we never would have been able to do otherwise. So, yeah, it's hard to say where it did well, but I remember doing that song in Chapel Hill, which was the one place in North Carolina that was sort of safe to play at first, and Rim of View went over. Well, we had to just do it with a drum beat. I found a we have a very ancient video of us playing that just like a rock band without the drum machine, and it's not bad and I remember it did go over well. So yeah, well speaking of videos.
Speaker 4:The video, for Every Word Means no. Has you, faye and Sarah, in a white room and you're all kind of wearing like different colors, I guess, to contrast against the white room. But what makes the video to me is the puppies. So I'm wondering where did the puppies come from? Where did you actually film that video? It was kind of cool, as each one of you were singing when you would hold the puppy or looking at the puppy. It just it's about the puppies to me.
Speaker 1:Well, the puppies were adorable and sweet and everything, and they also forever tagged us as the biggest whiteweights that ever lived, which, again, is just sort of funny. But, that came about sort of because that was for the cutting-edge TV show.
Speaker 1:That was this thing that IRS did for a little while and it was a real early MTV show and they would have bands come to this sound stage and shoot a few of them on the same day, you know, and then stick them in the show.
Speaker 1:So they were productions, you know, done kind of hastily but they were not in real time, you know.
Speaker 1:They were put together a little bit and so, um, we were given, um, the option to suggest a concept, you know, and the concept that we had was to have a bunch of dogs run through where we're playing and be like sort of chaotic, you know, like knock over our amps and stuff, you know, and I think years later, I think, weezer made a video like that, but that was what we wanted to do. So on the day we get there, they said we couldn't get any dogs but we got these puppies that were, you know, in a classified, like we have a bunch of puppies, free puppies, you know. So they got the puppies and brought them to the sound stage and and they were babies, you know, um, I mean, they were little, little, teeny dogs and they were adorable and I'm very relieved to be able to say that they all found homes that day among the crew and stuff working at the place. So that was a beautiful story, but that's how that happened. Well, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:We couldn't get dogs, but we can get little dogs.
Speaker 3:That is awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean it's fantastic, because I mean they definitely make the video. I mean, in all honesty, my youngest daughter is 22. I said, hey, I want you to watch this video. So, honesty, my youngest daughter is 22. I said, hey, I want you to watch this video. So she starts watching the video and she doesn't know the song and then all of a sudden, the puppies come on. She's like, hey, this is a pretty good song, you know, it's just funny how you know video and images and kind of what MTV did for people, those puppies did for my daughter watching this let's Active video. So it still holds true all these years later.
Speaker 4:Puppies were always a good idea, so yeah, you can't go wrong with them, and for our listeners not familiar with the band, you can also check out Water's Part Every Dog has Its Day a lot of good stuff that Mitch Easter and let's Active put out. So, after playing in several bands, your first solo release was in 2007. I think it was called Dynamico Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah, and what made it different in the recording process as compared to being a band doing this as a solo album so many years after you started?
Speaker 1:It wasn't too much different, really, because I always would like to do demos by myself, you know, and to really work out the arrangement. I could just sort of think better, you know, in that situation, and then, as I do really terrible-sounding things, nobody has to suffer through hearing it, you know.
Speaker 1:And so I like doing that and really one of the less active records is mostly done that way because, like so many bands, you know, it was impossible to keep the band together and when we did the um, the record that's called big plans for everybody there was, there was sort of not exactly a band and so but it was time to put out another record. So I just did a lot of it by myself and you know that's all right, but you know, and there is certainly an energy and a dynamic and all that's different with other people. That's good, but that just wasn't the circumstances. So by the time I did that record in 2007, it was sort of like I just sort of had a couple of weeks in the summer that year that I wasn't doing anything and I thought I'm going to get some stuff together. Some of it was already started, some of it was finished. It was just stuff I had, you know, and then, you know, finished. It was just stuff I had. Some stuff was new and I just tried to put together a record.
Speaker 1:It is mostly me playing just about everything on that one, just out of practicality. It's just organizing other people to come in and learn songs. It all takes time and I can just go out and do it. A lot of people think that's sort of this terrible thing to do, but there are a lot of records made that way that I really love. You know, todd Rundgren made some records like that and Stevie Wonder did like that, you know, and I like those, you know. So it's just a different thing from a band, but it's okay, I think.
Speaker 4:One and a Half Way Street is a great song on this album. I really like it. I like Time Warping also, but One and a Half Way Street, really really good song, oh, thanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that one too. I think it should have been faster, but other than that, I Well you were in charge, you could have made it faster.
Speaker 3:See, there wasn't another bandmate there to tell you that it needed to be faster. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, that's true. I mean it's funny about that, you, I mean it's funny about that. You know, there are a lot of songs that are slower on the records than the band ever plays it live. And sometimes that's good, you know, because bands get kind of excited, you know. But at the same time, these days you may have noticed this that bands almost never play it if they're like big-time pro bands. Everything is at the same speed as the record and sometimes it seems too slow live. You know, I think when you play live you probably should speed up a little bit, and sometimes the record needs to be a little slower, so you can just sort of take it in.
Speaker 1:It's funny about tempos.
Speaker 4:you know, on the side it seemed like a lot of English bands were doing that in the 80s, where they were playing much faster live than what was actually on the album. Whether it was the Rolling Stones or the Clash or whoever it was, it just seemed to be much faster live.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's something about the environment, but you know it's correct. I mean, everything is different live. You know, it's like. That's why, when I was working with other bands and they talk about doing things on the record that they're not going to have on stage, I'm like usually I just tell them it doesn't matter. You know, when you're playing live it's all about the, the way it feels in that room and it's loud and people are drinking and they're dancing or whatever they are. It's just a whole different thing. You know, the recording is like its own little sort of imaginary universe and the live show is a different universe, true, I agree I agree with you on that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, live. You have some shows this year with Sneakers.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit about that no-transcript reissued repeatedly and uh, and the reason why we're playing some shows right now is that, uh, the ath fest from athens, athens, georgia has asked sneakers to play, and we played last I guess it was January or something opening for this project that Chris was involved in Actually I was involved in too.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the band keeps sort of popping up. It's this little thing to do and people ask for it, and so that's what it is. It's another one of these bands. It's more of a recording project than a live thing, although at this point it's funny.
Speaker 1:In its day, when the records were coming out originally, I think the band played like three live shows ever you know, but and that was because there was nowhere for bands like that to play then hardly because it kind of predated punk and the revival of all this stuff around the new wave scene. You know, it was just a little bit before that. Um, anyway, by now we're this strange legacy band to. I can't imagine how many people it is, but it can't be very many but, it's enough that we keep getting asked to play, you know.
Speaker 1:so yeah, I think we have a three city tour tour coming up, so you know it's going to be pretty big.
Speaker 3:I'll be at AthFest. I'll come check you guys out.
Speaker 4:Oh cool. So, Mitch, you built your own recording studio in your parents' garage and called it Drive-In Studio. So how did you come up with the idea and how did you come up with knowing?
Speaker 1:this is what I need to buy to make my own studio in a garage. Well, you know, um, I I love recorded music from the time I was little. I just thought it was so interesting. The sounds and like, how are they doing? That, you know, always interests me, and it was kind of secret for a long time. You couldn't read about how it was done in very many places, you know. And now there are all these recording magazines and recording schools and all this kind of stuff. But it was a, you know, weird secret society back then.
Speaker 1:But I was really interested in it forever and and by the time I was in college, you know, chris Damien and I had been making these four track tapes and gotten sort of good at it. Um, so much so that I just thought this is it. Yeah, this is I know what to do. Now, you know, um, because you know the whole idea of like building stuff up on tape or whatever you're recording onto is sort of a mindset, and once you get that, then the fancy version is just the same thing, but with more options, right? So by the time I was in college I was thinking, yeah, I really don't want to get a job, you know, I just want to either be in the rock and roll business or I want to be in the recording business. Maybe I can do both.
Speaker 1:And I started thinking, well, maybe I can buy old equipment, you know, and be able to afford it that way. Um, and, and that's pretty much what I did, you know, and I got just the sort of basics and, uh, set it up in the garage and I was going to do it in New York city, but I chickened out. I just thought the New York city environment is just so intense, I'll have to make a lot of money just to keep this thing afloat. And I'm still kind of a kid and I still want to be in my band and all that junk. So I thought, well, if I do it down here, it'll be low overhead and if it fails, oh well, it won't be as big a deal if it fails.
Speaker 1:But by the time I actually got it set up in the garage, it was 1980. And that was right when the college radio came back to life and all these bands started putting out their seven inches of picture sleeves and all that kind of stuff. So I was perfectly poised, you know, to jump into that, because these bands were all looking for a different kind of studio. You know, most of the sort of pro studios were still sort of, you might say, living on the fumes of disco and stuff. They didn't have the atmosphere that these new bands were looking for and I think my super humble place and the fact that I was young back then and all that helped them feel at home. So it kind of worked in this perfect way and I don't think it would have worked one year sooner but in 1980, it did, and so of course as soon as it started getting busy I kept buying more equipment and it got to be a pretty good studio.
Speaker 4:Yeah and you closed it down in 94, and you moved to a different part of North Carolina where you currently have a different studio.
Speaker 1:No I mean just down the road. Okay, what happened was after being in the garage for 13 years, which is amazing to think about. That was a long time and a lot of bands went through that little garage. I was going to do this record with this band, Motocaster, and we were going to take the equipment out and make the record in this movie house in.
Speaker 1:Raleigh, north Carolina, that was going to let us work in there in the daytime and at the last minute that fell through. But we all had it in our heads. We wanted to do something like that. So I was living by myself in this big old house in earnersville which is right by winston-salem, where I'm from like 10 miles away. So we set it up in the old house and did it there and we were trying to get that sort of feel of you know those, those english bands that would set up in headley Grange or Deep Purple in that hotel in Switzerland or whatever, making these quasi-remote kind of records. So we did that and the studio stayed in the house for about four years. But it was really hard to live in the same place with that and it was something about the 90s too. The kind of sessions that were coming in were like oh god, get me out of here and I just couldn't Get away from it enough.
Speaker 1:So I started thinking I've got to do something. And anyway, to make a long story short, we built a building that's a dedicated Studio building, and that's where I'm still working, and that was a good move, because it's more flexible. Other people can come in here and work very easily and it's its own thing, you know, um, so that that's the sort of trajectory.
Speaker 1:I think, the garage was really perfect when I started and then it just sort of had to evolve Um. So now it's kind of more like a normal studio, but I still think, comparatively it has a lot of personality and is very band friendly.
Speaker 4:You'll have to visit sometime. I will definitely come visit. There's no doubt in my mind. If you say come visit, I will come visit at some point.
Speaker 3:So I have a gear question. When you first started in the garage, what tape machine did you use and what do you use now?
Speaker 1:I had a 3M M56 16 track, which is a lauded old tape machine.
Speaker 3:You know, that thing was rock solid.
Speaker 1:Was it a half inch?
Speaker 3:two inch. Two inch 16.
Speaker 1:Wow, cool two inch full-on studio tape machine, you know and I got that from the sound pit in atlanta because they were getting rid of their 16 track machines and putting in 24 track machines, you know, because it was the late 70s and you just nobody was recording on 16 tracks anymore. But I thought, no, that's great, that's plenty. So I had that machine and I had the sort of matching stereo machine that was called an m64 um. So yeah, that's what? So I had that machine and I had a sort of matching stereo machine that was called an m64 um. So yeah, that's what I had back then. And I had this little quantum console, which was a nice little small console that you know worked all right do you still record on tape or do you do digital now?
Speaker 1:you know, we do really essentially no tape. I mean, we do it when people ask for it, but it generally doesn't. People now want to do it because of some kind of mythological idea sometimes, and that's sort of a waste of time. But there is a different sort of workflow to it and it is kind of a different thing in a way, and the bands that understand that I think have a lot of fun working that way. So every now and then we do a proper tape session and it's great. But you have to think a little differently.
Speaker 1:The people that have come up with the digital equipment expect the level of fixing things and tweaking things. In this way you just kind of don't do with tape. With tape you just kind of either play it or you don't play it, and it's just weird to people now. But I still have tape machines in here and I just like them and sometimes they get used. You know, sometimes we will mix to the tape, even if it's been recorded on the computer, and that's got kind of a sound to it, you know.
Speaker 4:So you know we still do it but it's definitely kind of a little icing on the cake thing. Now it's not our mainstay Cool Mitch. For our listeners that don't understand what a producer is, can you just quickly kind of explain, you know, a band comes, you have the producer, and how it all works, so that they can kind of understand a little bit better what that role is?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, originally a record producer was a lot more like a movie producer. They were involved in putting together the whole package of making the record, you know. But that sort of faded in terms of into something more specific which is really just the band with in the studio, with the band and you have some impact on the recording and you help shepherd it through, then you probably at least co-produce the record you know, I never really worry about it too much.
Speaker 1:I mean the whole the word intrinsically a little bit pompous sounding to me sometimes but a lot of producers really do produce the record, you know, and our clientele is band oriented. They kind of want to co-produce. You know they don't really generally want to be told exactly everything, but some of them do. And so if they do want to be told more than I'm happy to tell them stuff. And my personal approach to it is just to sort of be helpful and just pipe up when something occurs to me, you know, and I'm not going to argue with them about it too much, but I will sometimes argue with them about it quite a bit if I think it matters. Um, but you know you have to just sort of take every situation differently and you can easily lose your credibility with somebody if you seem too pushy or too opinionated.
Speaker 1:Right, I feel like you can be very effective with the band and just sort of blend in, which is what suits me more. But I like the engineering part too. So I usually engineer sessions that I'm producing and so it's kind of all mixed together, because the engineering affects the tonality of things and whoever mixes it. If I mix it that affects the way it comes across too, and with records it's all kind of a mix between engineering and producing. But some producers don't engineer at all, they just simply talk to the band about. That's a good take. Why don't you sing it like this? You know, it's just a person that makes ideally good suggestions. That's sort of the essence of it, I think if you can do that. That's sort of the essence of it, I think if you can do that.
Speaker 4:That's a good explanation. You know, coming from you, who's produced a ton of albums and I mean a lot of albums through the years, and you know a few of them the Connells, boiling Heights from 1987, velvet Crush, teenage Symphonies, the God 1994. I love the song this Life Is Killing Me. I've always liked that and you know it's a 30-year-old song now, but I love it.
Speaker 1:Thank you Well. Yeah, you know, velvet Crush was a really fun band to work with. I mean they just had well, I mean they're great guys Fun songs. You know what's not to like. That record did do really well, I think, for them and I'm happy to have been able to work on it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that song. Something's Gotta Give the cover of the Matthew Sweet song. That's another really good song. I love Matthew Sweet and hearing their version's really good. Jimmy, here is a huge Pavement fan over here. Jimmy, so Bright in the Corners in 1997.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's a great record yeah.
Speaker 1:It is, and I've been giving too much credit for that. I did work on it, but it's really Bryce Goggins' record and he had to leave in the middle of the session because he had an ailing dog and so it was done at my place and so it's like, well, can you keep going with this? And I did, and then he came back, so I worked on it. But it's not them and Bryce, and with a little bit of me.
Speaker 3:Okay cool.
Speaker 4:So, Mitch, we named some of the stuff that we like. What are some of your favorite albums that you've produced over the years?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm really bad at this but, one that always comes to mind is Magic City by Helium, which I think is one of the best things I got to work on. I think that's just a beautiful record. Mary Tammany is such a good songwriter but that whole band was great. Um, I mean, she's an amazing guitar player and the songs are really, really good. I really love the melodies and stuff. But also ash bowie, who's the bass player in that band was is an amazing musician in general and his bass playing is like nobody else and that was a really fun record. That I'm that I really like.
Speaker 1:And I did a bunch of records, you know, with scott miller who had Game Theory and then later Loud Family, and I think I worked on six records with him and I like those a lot. They were fun to record because he was like the super creative guy and he enjoyed studio kind of stuff on the record. So some bands are very sort of conservative about the recording. They think, oh, I don't know, that sounds weird, but Scott was kind of like, yeah, that's great, let's do it, you know. So I think those Game Theory Live family records are ones I always enjoyed. But I mean mainly I've just been lucky I got into a scene where I was able to do cool bands most of the time. You know a lot of people that work in studios sort of get burned out on stuff that they just don't like to listen to, right right, we've had this sort of self-selecting clientele. We just get contacted by the kind of bands that generally, I kind of dig.
Speaker 4:So in 81, you produced the REM single, radio Free Europe, 82, the Chronic Town EP, 83, 84, you did the Murmur album and the Reckoning album. What made Mitch Easter and REM a good pairing for ending up with great music.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I think I owe meeting them to Peter Holzapfel, who's an old friend of mine from here, and they were starting to play in New York and they stayed in his apartment and they told him something like, yeah, when we get home we're going to figure out some place to record. And he told them about my plays place to record and and he told them about my place. It was right when they were just starting, you know, to do stuff. So they came in and worked and we just had a good time and then they came back. But I did kind of have to talk them into it because there was a to come back, because they had. There was another place in atlanta that was doing a lot of cool records and I think they were going to go there. It was the thing that's called channel One, which was actually in this Protestant church media center place, and a guy down there made a deal with them to let him work there at night. So he was doing pylon and stuff in there, I think.
Speaker 1:And that was pretty cool I think they were going to go there. But after that single I saw them play at some show and they were talking about that and I was like, no, you've got to come back here. And somehow I talked them into it. And at some show and they were talking about that and I was like, no, you've got to come back here, you know, and somehow I talked them into it and that turned into the Chronic Town EP and that was definitely a step up in terms of everything. So then they signed to IRS Records and IRS, of course, had no interest in these hillbillies from the South. They had never heard of, you know, working with their new band. But the band sort of insisted that we I think it was them that we'd have sort of a, at least a tryout session, you know, to do something together and let them hear it. So we did that and and I think we and when we did that song pilgrimage, which I really love- really good song.
Speaker 1:And I think the label was completely unimpressed. But I think the band said, well, that's what we're doing, and somehow they had a way of getting their way. You know, they always were really smart like that. They just sort of insisted on doing what they wanted to do and because I think you know they wanted them to, you know, work with somebody that they knew. You know somebody in the West Coast or somebody that was like popular with some other bands or whatever. You know, they just didn't know who we were or somebody that was popular with some other bands or whatever.
Speaker 4:They just didn't really work. So when I first heard Radio Free Europe, it was the original single version and that's what I would hear on the radio. It wasn't the re-recorded. So what was your and the band's thoughts when the record company had you re-recorded for Murmur, was there a lot of discussions about we don't want to do this, or how are we going to do this Because I liked want to do this, or how are we going to do this because I liked the original single version?
Speaker 1:that's what I know, until the album came out well I think you know, um, I don't know, I can't remember now what the band thought about all this, but irs really had this sort of rule back then that the thing that they thought was the hit you know is going to be the first song on the album. I think they thought already you know, people have no attention span we got to hit them right away. You know there's no idea of building up to anything, you got to just hit them over the head. So the first song must be what we think is the first single. So there was that and they liked that song because it is a good song, you know. So I don't think they really minded re-recording it.
Speaker 1:But when we did it again, I think it was don dixon's idea to slow it down a little bit. And I don't totally love the. I like the speed of the old one but I like the superior sound of the new one. You know the newer, right newer one just sounds better. But it's got this sort of almost easy going feel compared to the other one and I kind of wish it was faster. So it's sort of like one and a halfway street. I wish it was faster. I just it's sort of like one and a half way street.
Speaker 3:I wish it was faster. I just thought of something I want to ask you about.
Speaker 1:I think that's one about Redone.
Speaker 3:At the beginning of Radio Free Europe there's that kind of ethereal sound, kind of a rhythmic thing that starts the version on Murmur. What is that?
Speaker 1:Well, this might sound like a long explanation, but I can tell you what it is. First of all, we liked the idea. We meaning me and Don Dixon and I think the band kind of did too liked the idea of these just sounds like what is it? You know, as opposed to everything having to be the song, you know, why not put a little mysterious sound in here and there? We got a reel of tape. That was an absolutely brand new reel of two-inch tape and it had this noise on it that was sort of like a staticky sound and it's like that's weird. That is not supposed to happen. And what was really weird about it was that it was only on one track of the tape. So typically, if it's some sort of extraneous noise that came from no telling where, it would be all over the tape, top to bottom, but it was just on one track. And it was so weird. We called you know, top to bottom, but it was just on one track, and that was so weird.
Speaker 2:We even we called up 3M and they said, that's impossible and we said well, but there it is.
Speaker 1:So we had that sound and we thought we have to do something with this sound because it just came to us like a weird cosmic message, right.
Speaker 1:So what we did was we took the baseline of the part that leads into the chorus you know, that raving station part, and there's this ascending and descending bass part it's pretty catchy in this and we took that song and we fed that signal into the key input of what's called a noise gate, which is the thing that turns on and off in the presence of sound. This is getting pretty complicated, right. So we took the key input so that the gate turned on and off along with the rhythm of that bass part, and then use that staticky sound to be the thing that got turned on and off. So that's what it is and maybe put into a little bit of reverb. So the idea is it's just this random noise, but it's actually related to the song and maybe one in a million people will figure this out because it's the same rhythm. Yeah, it's that dum-ba-dum-ba-dum-dum-ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da part that happens before the chorus, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was greatly amusing to us and that's why it's there.
Speaker 4:I love it and that's why we do interviews on Music in my Shoes, so that we can get cool explanations like we just got right there. That that is definitely pretty cool. So reckoning, you know we're we're at the 40th anniversary of reckoning. Hard to believe came out on april 9th 1984. Um, not a bad song on on this album. Great, great songs. I mean harvard coat, seven chinese brothers, south central rain, which was the first single in may of 84.
Speaker 4:Pretty persuasion which was a screamer of the week on wlir, best new song of the week the last week of of may of 84. Uh, time after time. I mean that's just the first side, before you even hit the second. What was it like being in the studio with rem at this time, as compared to when you were with them in 81 doing the single Radio Free Europe?
Speaker 1:I think it felt different because their career had really picked up when they did the Murmur record. They still had the really sort of sad old band that they showed up at my house the first time around, which was this actually awesome 70s Dodge van that was sort of olive green and had been sort of fitted out to be like some guy's fishing van. You know right, I think that's what the guy did, you know, so that was what they were traveling in and they still had that when murmur happened. But when they came back for reckoning they had a new van, you know, because they were playing more and all that. So the feel of the record was so much more like a band on tour I mean when we did murm, did Murmur, they were already kind of doing the business
Speaker 1:but it really stepped up between those two records. And so you know my joke at the time which probably flopped, but I like to keep telling it is I said you know you're making your Led Zeppelin II now because you know Led Zeppelin II was made when they were actually on tour and they would just pop into studios and cut a track and then they'd go somewhere else and cut another track. So it wasn't quite like that, but they were really on tour and I think that the record was made, you know, like kind of around the end of the year and beginning of the next year and the touring world was sort of quiet for the holidays and so that was a good time to make the record. It just felt like they were in motion, you know. But when we did murmur it felt like this sort of insular cozy we're just in here doing this thing kind of feeling. It didn't feel like they were in a hurry, you know. Right.
Speaker 1:And I think you can kind of feel that you know, Definitely there's this sort of Little America kind of songs on that record too, that just sort of sound like you're on the road, you know, and it felt like that to me. It was still fun, it was still a good record, but it was a very different vibe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, little America's on side two. Also on side two is Don't Go Back to Rockville, which is in my top three favorite REM songs. I absolutely love that song. I could listen to it over and over and over If I had to. I don't know why. It's just like this little catchy song, this catchy tune that you just keep singing along with.
Speaker 1:I love it, yeah it's one of those songs that appears in the chorus and it seems inevitable, right Like, of course it goes like that. You just sort of know it instantly, you know yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree with you. I heard it the first time. I think I knew all the words, I was actually able to understand all the lyrics on it and I could sing with it. It was great. So a couple of years ago there was the 40th anniversary of Chronic Town and you perform One Million and you do a great version of Catapult. And I know that Peter Buck is playing and you got Lenny K playing and others. You know, obviously we talked to Kevin Kinney. We had him on the show recently and talked to him about the show and when he was on and he he talked about you know when, when you were playing guitar on King of Birds I think it was when he was playing.
Speaker 4:But your version of Catapult is fantastic. Like I would love to see that, where I could download that, that I could have that, that I don't have to go to YouTube just to watch it. Oh yeah, what was it like, I mean, having Lenny K. For those of you that don't know, lenny K is from the Patti Smith group. You know we talked about Peter Bunk. What was it like having you know some real big names, including yourself, up there on the stage?
Speaker 1:Well, it was fun. You know, it's like the thing that's cool about music people is that they're kind of Familiar, whether you know them or not. You know mostly, at least the ones that I ever made. They're just the music people you know. They like to talk about records and guitars and stuff and those guys are no different, you know, and I love that, of course. You know, and I Think most people that kind of stick around are also sort of, you know, nice. You know, all these people were great to talk to.
Speaker 1:You can sort of spot Lenny a mile away because he looks like Lenny K. We've all seen him. I mean, I used to read his stuff when I was in study hall in 11th grade and before. Maybe it was cool to meet him. Actually, my wife and I were in this restaurant and he and Kevin came in and sat at the table next to us and I just said, oh hey, and then we just started talking because I had met Kevin before. I also hadn't seen him in ages, so it was just great. I was saying to my wife that the backstage at that thing felt sort of like the high school reunion that I'd ever went to. It was great, All these people I had seen in a long time and the atmosphere was just really good.
Speaker 1:That's the thing about REM though they have really spread a lot of happiness, the stuff around their music and them personally, and all is just kind of a good vibe. It was super fun to do those ancient songs too. I always really liked Catapult. I think the band had a bad taste in their mouth about that song for having to do that famous version that we dare not speak of kind of thing way back that you must know about and so. But I just really like the song. And when we did it for murmur I always felt a little sad that I think it was already kind of tainted for them and probably they didn't really like it. But I I liked the song a lot and million I ended up doing because a lot of the other ones taken, you know, by other celebrities. But it was fun to do that song because that's sort of a song that not you don't think about too much, but it's also great.
Speaker 1:And I didn't really know what the words were. I just hadn't really thought about it. And when I saw what the words were I thought, okay, these are perfect, strange, and I have not exactly a real good idea about what he means, but I like it. And so we did it at the 40 Watt Club the first night and you may know that all the guys were there and Michael came up to me and he said I can't believe you did that song. And he was just so amazed because I think he had not thought about that song since they recorded it practically. So it was just great to do those. It was fun.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, as I was getting ready for the interview with you, I went back and I remember listening to Chronic Town a lot. I actually saw the Chronic Town tour. I got to see REM in 82 on the Chronic Town tour in New York Cool tour in New York and listening to it brought back a lot of the memories of 40 years ago and I was still in high school. And these different things and remembering listening to with different friends, and I like when music does that. I like when you can listen to music and it can take you back to when you first heard it and take you back to memories and it was really good listening to Chronic Town to have that happen.
Speaker 4:And one other thing that I'll tell you is, again, we had Kevin Kinney in here and he talked about the, the, the college radio movement that was happening and the three bands he mentioned were REM, let's Active and the DBs and I thought that was really cool. That was who to him, that was the people that were doing. You know college radio back then. That's how it all was. Who to him, that was the people that were doing. You know, college radio back then. That's how it all was getting going in the bands that people wanted to hear.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great. Yeah, I mean I'm flattered to be in any sort of you know, dare I say, pantheon of you know memory, because you know let's Active was. We were never exactly a big deal, but we stayed around for a while and I think we were sort of distinctive and we were lucky to be sort of that, I wouldn't say the first batch of those bands, but an early batch of those bands.
Speaker 1:You know I think we got paid attention to for being weird and stuff in this way. You know it was maybe deserved or not deserved, weird and stuff in this way. You know, it was maybe deserved or not deserved.
Speaker 3:But um yeah, I'm just always flattered to know that that band, you know, was something people actually still think about I remember seeing you guys in 87 at the uptown lounge in athens and, uh, it was like one of the big weeks where it was like the connells played like the night before and you guys, it was, it was. You guys were great.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks. Yeah, I think we were usually a pretty okay live group. I think playing live is super fun and I wish I did more of it, because it sort of makes you play better to play a lot of live.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've always thought that when you listen to bands in general, no matter who the band is, the more they play live, the better they seem to get. I know that kind of seems, you know, elementary, but I mean it really is the more you do, the better you sound and the better your records are. And you know I still call them records. I know they're not records anymore, but that's what I still call them records.
Speaker 1:I think they are records. You know, record just means a recording right, and I don't think it really should have to mean a vinyl record. I think you can call them records.
Speaker 4:I'm going to call them records, that's for sure Me too, talking about other things that you've done as far as recordings and producing and producing REM and just spending some time with us.
Speaker 1:We really want to thank you for coming on and we appreciate it. Well, I appreciate talking to you guys and I appreciate the good questions, and you are both invited. Anytime you're in the neighborhood to let me know and we'll have a visit, because you should just come by, you know, right on, thanks I promise you that, that we will come up there.
Speaker 4:That's it for episode 32 of music in my shoes. Once again, I'd like to thank our guest, mitch easter, and also I'd like to thank jimmy guthrie, show producer and owner of Arcade 160 Studios located here in Atlanta, georgia, and Vic Thrill for our podcast music. This is Jim Boge, and I hope you learned something new or remembered something old. We'll meet again on our next episode. Until then, live life and keep the music playing, thank you.