#1 - Riot MMO News, what we want to see and what we dont, Runeterra Lore

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Hello and welcome to the Creaking SaltSoap Tape is theBrazen Hydra in Bilgewater.We're your hosts, Enk Grosven, PongQuest, and today we'll besharing a point and talkingall things Runeterra and beyond. Soobviously if we're talkinghere and we're hosting from theBrazen Hydra in Bilgewater, we'reobviously prettyexcited about the ride MMO.Yeah yeah, to say the least, I think it'sa lot of people's mostanticipated MMO right now,because you know it's pretty rare to seea new up-and-coming oneoutside of Amazon at least.So pretty exciting stuffworth talking about I'd say.Yeah Amazon's got New World popping offright now a little bit.Is it really?Yeah I don't know why.It must be like I know they're stillupdating it like it's still a liveservice ongoing withnew content and stuff but I've like seenabsolutely nothing about it since likethe first two weeks ofthat game. The reason I never got intoNew World is becauseI'm a big guy on the lore.Like we both played World of Warcraft.Oh yeah and we bothread extensively on WoW.We read a lot of novels and chroniclesand oh god the world's so good on WoW.That universe is great. I just don't likethe most recent writing butthe universe is still so good.Yeah you can't in terms of Azeroth and Iknew everything aboutWorld of Warcraft like in termsof lore I was definitely on the more Iknow stuff kind of side.Yeah and I feel like that's whatinitially drew me tothe world of Runeterra.Is that it's a whole the whole world.If you look at my most recent video it'snot really the whole worldbut the world that we seeright now it's so extensive and like deepand then that's what kindof drew me in and said okaythis could actually be an MMO that I'dwant to invest in. I thinkNew World just came out andit's like it's more about gameplay thanstory. Yeah but Runeterra Ihope that they make it wherethe world is the focus. Oh yeahabsolutely I agree. I thinkeven like what makes it verylike reminiscent over old WoW is thatclearly in Runeterrathe focus is not just likefive characters like how WoW has beendoing in the past like few years.You can tell that every zone is going tohave its own majorcharacters and a lot of characters arenot even going to know about likeanything about each other outside ofthose zones. You know they'reall very much in their own little realmsand doing their own thingand I think that's reallyreally cool and that's something I missabout a lot of old MMOscompared to now where MMOs nowadaysare very story driven because I thinkmost people want a single playerexperience out of MMOs whichis obviously something I don'tunderstand. I've always been I want mymost to be community drivenI think that's what MMOs are like made tobe if I want to play asingle player game I'm gonnaplay a single player game but that's justme. I feel like justlooking at the world of RuneterraI hope that they're setting things up forit to to be a whole worldwith all these different movingparts and people to meet. That's whyclassic hardcore got sopopular was because it wasit was an MMO again where people kind ofhad you had to work together. You'regoing out on a questyou're joining groups you're going you'redoing anything in theworld okay you need to you needto work together compared to like if youlog on to WoW now you don'treally have to work togetherand this isn't a WoW podcast I want tostay focused on Runeterrabut mostly we're talkingabout the right MMO and what we thereason I'm bringing all thisstuff up is because I want totalk about what we want to see and whatwe don't want to see in the right MMO.Like in terms of howyou want the game to be played like whatwhat can they do to makeit so the world is the focusand not the player.Because I don't want to be a champion.Like, I don't want to be.The hero of the story, like there'sthere's so many heroes in Runeterra.They have a huge cast list of heroes.I want to be like.A part of it.Mm hmm. Not the main character.Yeah, absolutely.Yeah, I just want to be a soldier of, youknow, the Nazis or Demaciaor wherever the heck whose goals happento align with, you know,whatever character we're meeting andtalking to, and if that characterneeds to get something done,we're just there with them.But we are not the driving force behindGod's dying and stuff like that.I think in MMOs, for some reason, if itgoes on long enough,writers will feel the needto constantly power scalethe character, the player character tofeel like we'reprogressing and getting stronger.When the truth is,honestly, I am totally OKif there's just always some things thatare out of my element, likewhat's his face? BigStar Dragon Aurelion Sol.Yeah, we better never fight Aurelion Sollike in the sense that we,the player kick his ass. That's a great.Yeah, that's a great point.I never want that to happen.I don't care if the MMO is 50 years oldand we have already clearedeverything else in Runeterra.We better not be that strong ever.Yeah, I've said itbefore that we are literallyless than the tip ofAurelion Sol's fingernail.So we should never be able to even comeclose to Aurelion Sol.Yeah, and I'm totally cool with that.If we are always just thehuman or your whatever the heck,we're just one dude or gal that islimited by our mortal bodies.We can only do so much.I will always be cool with that becauseit gives that senseof scale to the world.Man, that's so freaking true. Oh, my God.Like that. OK, so even ifwe did, let's say that we goall out, there's like a void expansion.We're in the Froyo and we're we'rejourneying to the eyeand the abyss and all this stuff.And we're about to fight.Monsters, creatures, weshould not be the onesfighting those beyondGod level creatures. Right.That should be like the duty of someoneelse while we're handling,you know, the freaking little guys. Yeah.Like we're helping, butwe're not the main character.We're we're the soldiers.We're the we're doing our part to help.Let's say Aurelian Sol is in the fightbecause he's not a huge fan of the voideither. He's the one taking on the void,the void gods. Yeah.Not us. Yeah, absolutely.And I think we try to call it theWatchers and Runeterra, by the way.Oh, yeah. Yeah.But also, I think thateven comes back to you.I think the reason why me and youespecially are so adamant about thisis because it comes backto that sense of community,because if you're just asoldier, then guess what?You're not going to do a lot on your own.But if you're a whole, you know, squadronof like 20 soldiers, 20 players,a raid, you can do. Yeah.Like a raid. Like a raid.You know, riot gamesmake cool raids, please.I like raiding. Mm hmm.But yeah, like it's just it's that senseof you can't do much by yourself.And I love when the the story narrativeof an MMO pushes that idea of, yeah,guess what? You're one dude.So you need other people ifyou want to be successful.That's just me. I knowthat's an out there take.We have a pretty out there take aboutMMOs in terms of howcommunity driven things should be interms like what you can accomplishby yourself, because forme, I'm like the bare minimum.You should be able tolike do your professions.Yeah, you should beable to do some quests.And if you do the quest, they should bedangerous by yourself.Like you can do the quest by yourself,but they're going to take longer.You have to do levels like easier quests.You can't do the like there's a quest fora good item or a bag or something.That one you can't dounless you get a group.Yeah, you don't want to get a group.Then yeah, you can go do these otherquests that are not as hard,but not as rewarding. Yeah, absolutely.And I don't even want to be told that.I mean, I just want tofind that out for myself.Yeah. I'll be like, oh, I justhave to go kill this one guy.And then you read the question. You'relike, oh, he has likea whole gang of like,you know, like like thieves with him.And oh, this is like a level 12 quest andall these enemies aregoing to be level 12.And like, I probablycan't fight five guys at once.I see the problem now.I don't even want it to recommend it liketo say like, oh, you need four peoplefor this quest, like let me go there andbe like, damn, I can't do this.And then I look around and like there's abunch of other people sayingthey can't do this. I'm like, hey, youwant to group up so wecan do this together?Yes. Yeah, it ain'tpossible right now. Absolutely.I think the biggest complaint about stufflike that is people saying, oh,I don't have like the time to be doingsomething like wasting my time,like going over there tofind out, oh, guess what?Yeah, I can't do this.But then I feel like people like don'tthink about, well, OK,what's worth your time then in an MMO,you know, because Ithink I personally thinkif I'm in Runeterra and I'm in Shurima.And they're in Shurima.I said Shurima for a long time.It's Shurima and I got alot of shit for that one.So it looks like Shurima to me.It does. Yeah, I'm always going to.Shurima, that's a problem.It's like Shurima.You got to really pronounce it.I remember I said Ixtel too. It's Ixtel.Oh, yeah. Yeah.What very adamant aboutthe names by Leisure Water.But yeah, yeah, yeah.Yeah, we're we're alive inthe the Brazilian Dragoon.Mm hmm. So yeah, let's say I'm like I'mquesting out in on Shurima and.You know, I run over just to do somequest and that exact thing happens to me.I'm now talking group chat with thesepeople to get this group together.And we do the quest.And that's literally the only thing Ihave time to do today.I literally only did one quest.Maybe it wasn't even worth that much.I didn't get a cool reward out of it.I still think that's worth my timebecause you get to have that experienceof just talking topeople and cooperating.People you never met before.You don't know where the heck they live.You know, they can be across the world.But guess what? You guysformed this little group.Preach. You're chatting it up.You're you accomplished something thatwas actually like, you know, cooland like feasible, evenif it doesn't work out.Little even if you wiped, youdidn't even complete the quest.I still think that's worth my timebecause that was just a cool experiencethat I had that day inthis MMO in Runeterra.And I'm like, oh, that's worth my time.I don't think like it's just like be, oh,I got this much gear today.I got this big number today.So that was worth my time.You're prioritizing the likewhat you're actually doing.Like it doesn't matter how much you gotdone is whether you liked it or not.But people prioritize finishing.So I mean, if there's a button right now,let's say the right mode comes outand there's a button that you could pressthat you will reach end gamewith cap level gear andyou're standing at the final boss.Everyone's going to push that button.Yeah, that doesn't mean the button shouldexist and everyone would like.You need to think about the wholeexperience and notabout just finishing it.That's why classic.Well, the end game, not thatgreat, but leveling is so goodthat people will play it because they'renot in pursuit of the end game.They're not justtrying to get to the end.It's about just playing the game.And like saying that, yeah,I hate the whole thing aboutif you don't have timeanymore, there's no time for that.Like, OK, but if you don't have time toplay a video game,you don't play that day.Like you can play another day.I've got a lot of stuff going on in mylife, but I still find time to play.Yeah, just because you enjoy it and youknow that with the time you have,you're going to get some enjoyment out ofthis community experience.That is an MMORPG.I'm going to say, thank God that classicWow is a thing andcoming out and doing well.Yeah, because because, you know,everyone's has eyes on on Wowin general being a big MMO that it is.Oh, I'm sure the right name has.They're not. Exactly.I hope they take what'sgood and leave what's not good.For a size.Lee, I hope they realize just how muchvalue and longevity there is in an MMOthat is centered around having tocooperate and work togetherto accomplish anything because I mean,hey, the classic Wowis still strong withhardcore at this point in time.It is being recorded.And I'm sure I am.Oh, team is seeing thisstuff and they're like, OK,people actually want a slow progression.You know, there's anaudience for that at least.Maybe not everyone, butthere is an audience for that.There is there's a successful MO thatexists where people literallyjust run through a desertforever and kill scorpions.And they need to talk topeople to accomplish that.What one other thing thatI do want to talk about.So I really like that that you're that'slike prioritizing the experienceand all that, but another thing that Ithink the reason we're sayingI want to say all this is because there'smistakes that can't be fixed.And so there's stuff that they need toprioritize at the beginningbecause once it's done, it's done likeonce you're the champion,you're the champion. Oh,yeah, you can't go back.Yeah, and stupid.Another thing that I alwaysfelt pretty adamant about,but I don't know ifeveryone cares as much about it.I always felt like flying was a bigmistake in Warcraft.And I came out that was they did that inBurning Crusade where flying started.But there issomething to be said about theclassic WoW feelsfirst classic WoW is huge,but it also feels biggerbecause there is no flyingbecause you spend all the way up to level40 just running around.Then a level 40, you get your base mount.Then you don't get afast mountain to level 60.And even that mount isnot as fast as mounts today.Oh, yeah. So it's like.I, I there's certain like if they addflying at the beginning of the ride,I know you can't takeback flying like a while.They do every single time.They're like Pathfinderachievement, but it never feels goodbecause all you're doing is takingsomething away from youand then giving it backto you later as a reward.But you can't take somethingand give it back as a reward.Like a reward has to be something new.Yeah, I can't take all yourgear and then just say go naked.And then you get all this gear.Oh, but look, you're doing great.A lot of them do that.I'm going to be honest, like newexpansion drops for any MMO,whether that's like FinalFantasy 14 or WoW or anything.Yeah, you'rebasically naked at that point.Your gear means nothing.It's going to be a better way to do it.I know, right.I always think about that as like, Idon't know, like I'm I'm no geniusgame developer, so I think I can come upwith the the endlesslike how to break out that endlesstreadmill feeling that is MMOs,that like a live service, I'm a mobecause I mean, OK, like let's say,let's say I'm the right mo is a big hit,you know, the vanilla world,whatever that is, like the original worldleveling experience.Everything's great.But guess what? Now everyone's cap level.Everyone's done all the content.Now what? You can't exactly,you know, go back to level oneand have a whole new leveling experience.So like you kind of feel stuck in that.OK, I guess here's 10 more levels and onenew like island placeyou can go explore. Here's here's Ionia.But guess what?You're now spending the next two yearsonly in Ionia compared to previouslywhere, let's say that we'll start offwith like the Masiya, noxiousShudima, Ixtal, Piltover and Zahn.Say start off with all that.Yeah, big massive world to explore.Amazing leveling experiencewhere you really get to takeinto the game and all this stuff.Yeah. Now guess what? It's all relevant.You're an Ionia now forthey can't do that fun.Yeah, right.It's such a big issue.And then it also comes down to like,well, do they have to revampthe whole world everytime to make it interesting?And even then it's like, iseverything worth doing then?Because you already kept level is goingto be max like 10 new levels.And it's like, I don't know.That's a big problemwith MMOs in general.I don't know if NewWorld does it any differentlybecause I know New World's very communitydriven in the way it works.So I don't know if they still just likefollow that expansion hole.Then I feel like the there might.So one thing that I alwaysthat is really cool about classic.Wow, is that you'll getgear from the first rate.That's still relevant in the last rate.Yeah, there's this power spike.Is it massive?As massive as it is like today where thelast rate is gear is trash.Yeah. By the time yougo into the next rate.That's big. And then there's differentadvantages that you have.So if you're farming out thatfirst rate, you're getting likefire resistance gear, you know.So I feel like theycould do something with that.I don't know. It'd be it'd be really hardto stay that creativeand constantly come up with new thingsthat you need gear for.But you get what I'm saying?Like if you're have araid and and and should have.You need this specificresistance or this specific bonusto be able to get helpyou get through the raid.Like you can do it, but it'll be much,much, much harder without this gear.Like near impossible.But if you have this gear that gets youthis special benefit in this areaand it can't be just like, oh, plus 10strength in Shurima,it needs to besomething like environmental.Mm hmm. I think that'd be really like,OK, there's a raid in Zahn.You can do the raid, but you'reconstantly going tohave this debuff of smogthat stacks every hour.And after three hours, you're going to belike taking a bunch of damageevery once every take because of just thesmog that you're toxic waste.You know, yeah.Or you can rock this gear that has likethis resistance to it.Yeah. And stuff like that, where it'slike, even thoughlike I see what you mean,you want like horizontal progression.Yeah. Where like,like, OK, like you don'thave to complete like, you know, theseraids in this exact order.But, you know, each of these raids willgive you something unique and coolfor your character, whether that's likegear cosmetics or whatever.But then, yeah, it's also like the thingof like, how can you go like?Yeah, like this one.Yeah. OK.Even then it's like, OK, like, will thatfeel like the money?Do you need sunglasses?Well, in the case of like Zahnra, youneed like the specific thing to go down.I think that's something where it has tobe done really right.It has to be done very precisely andsmoothly without theplayer even noticing.Yeah, because it could just feel like anannoying wall whereit's like, oh, my God,like, I just want to go to Zahn dude.Why the heck is there this like stupidmechanic where I need to get this gear?What the hell? You know, yeah.Stuff like that's always like, will it belike part of the world so smoothlythat you just feel like, oh, of course,of course, I can't go into Zahn yet.Like, you know, I needto be ready for that.It's like it's one of the things where Ithink it's a good solution.It just needs to be done really well.That world really needs to feel alive.You really need to be immersed into itfor it to work forhorizontal progression.At least horizontal progression isdefinitely much harder.Yeah, it is. And vertical progression.Oh, yeah, it's much harder to do.And I don't even know if it'd be like Iunderstand the whole vertical.Which makes sense. Like, OK, we finishout Demacia and Noxus and Shurimaand the superficial levelof Piltover and Bilgewater.Those are the startingzones when the MMO comes out.Then Ionia comes out and OK, you know, wemove over to that expansion.There has to be a way to pull it backwhere you still have thewhole world to explore.Yeah, I mean, like I'm known for like,I'm like the patches during vanilla wasthe idea of like, OK, I know.Even that had like the issue where it'slike everyone's in one zone, basically.But I always think of Ithink one of my favoritejust MMO events in general ever was theon garage, the gates of on garage event.If you don't know what that is, it'sbasically like, OK, this zone in thelike in the already established likeworld is like already somepeople go to all the time.It was normal. But nowsomething happened in the zone.Both Alliance and Horde, you know, you'reeither an Allianceplayer or a Horde player.You pick a faction and you have to fightover these resources in this zone.Everyone is killing these bugs that dropthis loot that you need, this currency.And that's how, you know, like youryour guild or group people can eventuallyget like really coolmount, really cool rewards.So everyone is in this zone.That's very community driven event.Everyone's fighting over resources andland because the landis where the enemies arethat drop this stuff. So it's just I feellike that's a really cool example of likethe old world still existed.It was literally just arevamp zone in the old world.But even then, of course, there's stillthe issue of everyone'sjust in that one zone.Yeah, but it's stillit's still felt alive.Yeah, yeah. The world needsto feel alive and changing.One of the best things about that is thatthe world was changing.Like it wasn'tstagnant. Yeah. Stuff happened.That's cool. Maybe that's.Dude, maybe. I mean, like just OK, yourelease the world and thenstuff happens in the world.But you need to feel likeyou're growing in power.That's the hardest thing with horizontalprogression is as you need to still feellike you're getting stronger.That's why verticalprogression is so much easier.You're obviously getting stronger.Look at your level. Yeah, absolutely.I mean, I know I'm a little praise GuildWars to for I believe they havehorizontal progressionwhere you don't really like there's nolike specific path youhave to take in Guild Wars toto like achieve the goal of amazing gear.But I'm not sure exactly how they do it.But I know that's like that's the onething I'm going to praise about.So I'd like to lookinto Guild Wars to more.I'm very curious about that.And I'm sure the riot team islooking at all these of them.Most who know wenever talked about flying.I got to take likecarried the conversation.Oh, yeah, we did totally pivot.So what do you think? Whatdo you think about flying?Should it be included?Sure. Should it bestayed away from forever?Well, as someone who has talked about howmuch I love running through a desertand killing scorpions, I'mvery much against flying.I think it means Ithink it's just fly over.You're never going to seeanyone. You don't see anyone.That was one of the main reasons why youdon't see people anymorejust because you fly everywhere.Yeah. And even then, I mean, already atthat point, I'm actually I don't know.I did not play BurningCrusade or anything like that.But like, I don't know if you stillneeded to just like talk to whoever'slike next to you to getthings done in Burning Crusade.But I feel like likedefinitely at this point in wow,you have no reason totalk to random people.You're accomplishing everything yourself.And that's intentionallydesigned because people want that.And wow, that's just thedirection the game went in.And Burning Crusade, you had to talk topeople until the end.Once you got flying, likeyou just flew over everything.You don't talk to anyone anymore. Youjust fly wherever you want.Yeah. Yeah.Even for like quests, I don't know ifthere were like, youknow, difficult questswhere like, I know I guess atthat point, if you have flying,like you already alreadythat's the first thing.So yeah, at that point, it's just likeyou never have to see anyone ever again.Well, even in like, I don't know, do youlike if you're like,if you're running through the world,you've already conqueredand you see this dude struggling to killa stinking quill boar.That's what you're going to get off yourmind, going to heal that man.Yeah, you're going to run in there.You're going to help him out.And that's just a beautiful moment.But if you're both bythe air here, you see only.Yeah, exactly.And if you're flyingover, you're not looking down,you're not looking atthe quill boar camp.But that little moments like that is whatkeeps people invested.Little moments like that is what's goingto make me come back to that gamethe next day, because I think of thattime when that dude saved me.Man, what a cool game.What a cool little world this is.Yeah. You know, that dudehad no reason to save me.He's already done this whole zone.He's these caps thinking level.He one shot that quill boar.You know, he came to my rescue in thisawesome little world of RuneterraWarcraft, whatever you want to call it.That's what I'm a needs to be.World of Runeterra.World of Runeterra.But did you know that if you go to like,so I'll type it in right now.If you go to world of Runeterra dot com,it takes you to the right ofmy website for making an MMO.Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that's Idon't think I think about.But I yeah, I personally don't thinkthat's like the name they're going toI don't know. It might just be like anin-house name rightnow that they're using.Because I feel like World of Runeterra isa little too on the nose.To World of Warcraft.Yeah, it's not World of Azeroth.So it's not true.So good enough.Man, I mean, they're freaking even theydo like Project L,Project T, Project QZ, whatever.So they kind of know thename until it's finalized.Oh, I mean, they justreserved it because.It's there and they'drather have it locked in.Yeah, yeah, that's fair.I mean, like, yeah, if they need to havea name, they can't comeup with anything else.I think World of Runeterra is like fine.Oh, like it's not abad name by any means.It's just like nothing special either.I almost just want to call it Runeterra.I almost just want to call it Runeterra.Well, just straight up Runeterra.Yeah, I think that's cool.I think that's more than that's enough.You just say we actually don't like that.Everyone has to feel like they have toadd something to it.You don't always have to add something.It can just be Runeterra.What are you playing today?Runeterra.Do this. Where are you?Runeterra.This is this is the first one of them.Where you're not just it's not just likeit's not like three words or anything,you know, like like like Swotor.This is what it was like.Yeah.Whereas the Old Republic.I was over there.Stuff like that.Or Lothro, Lord of the Rings online.Yeah.Sort of thing.No, people just call it R.Yeah.I think I think that's more than enough.I don't know.It's you.I was like not enough.People know about Runeterra right now.So where like they would even like belike, OK, they justnamed it after the world.It's like, whoa, what's Runeterra?That's a cool sounding word.Yeah, I'm amazed at how little peopleknow about the actual lore of Runeterra.You know, I'm going to be honest, beforeyou started showingme this kind of stuff,I would have never guessed in a millionyears that a MOBA has this much lore.Why do they need an entire world wheneveryone's playing ona three by three grid?Yeah, I really thinkit was unintentional.Like it wasintentional and unintentional.I think they saw what Blizzard did withWarcraft 1, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3.Then they had Hearthstone.Then they had World ofWarcraft and all they did really.And now they have another game.That's like the toy one or whatever.Oh, mobile.Oh my god.You have the new mobile game coming out.I thought Warcraft Rumble.Yeah, Warcraft Rumble.That's happening right now.All they really do is just say if you'regoing to make a game, use this IP.And then so they then they started havingthe character backstories and they putthem all in the world.And then after a while, this world gotbuilt out on its own andthen they probably had like,OK, now we need a dedicated lore team tobuild out this world thatwe're calling Runeterra.You know, it's like it kind of happenednaturally where they're just like,well, we want to make a game.This is the game that we want to make.We want to make a card game.Where should we do?We'll use this.Make sure you're using this IP.It has to be based around Runeterra.The cards have to bebased around our characters.Yeah.And then if you have enough games, nowyou have Raya Forge, whichis just pumping out games.All freaking amazing so far.Excited for Song of Nunu, which hasn'tcome out when we recorded this.Oh, yo.Which are just excited.They're like, OK, we wantto make this kind of game.Well, it has to be set in this world.And then the world getsbuilt out on its own naturally.Yeah, honestly, I think Yuri is a goodpoint where it's like,why have a bunch ofdifferent, you know, little IPs?But you can just have one massive IPwhere even it doesn'tmatter if you're playing,you know, the the card game, which isRuneterra or you'replaying League of Legends.Now you guys both know this IP, you know,regardless of what you're playing.Everyone knows these characters.They know these likethese specific places.I think it's a genius idea.It also just saves a lot of time of nothaving to rebuild the wheelevery time they want to make a new game.Yeah, characters are already there.Stories are already there.Interact in their locations.Everything. Everything's already set up.All the pieces are there.You just put themtogether, however you like.Mm hmm. I completely.So what's the number onething that you want to make sure?Like that.But do you want to takethis conversation next?Oh, man, dude. Hmm.Oh, God, things I couldrant about sense of community.Mm oh, like let's talk about let's talkabout sense of community.So when it comes to a community in theMmo, how do they managemaintaining a community?And like I hate frickin servers.So there's OK when it comes to community,I do feel like a serveris the number one detriment to acommunity and the number one.So really? Yeah.Like when you startcrossing servers over. Oh, yeah.I know. I hate that.Yeah. At the same time, I understand youwant to play with your friend. Right.But the second you start thesecond you start saying like,whatever you'remeeting with, does it matter?Then the community is gone.Like you want to be ableto quest with that guy.Then you're running around Orgrimmar.Not you're running around in the world.Let's say that you questwith someone in Shurima.We keep going back to Shurima. We need topick somewhere else.Yeah. OK.Maybe it was like the perfect place whereit's like, oh, it'd probably be likelike an early level zone.Yeah. Like it's not like like insane,like shadow aisles or build.You're not going to berunning around the Frolljord.Yeah, exactly. Like you're probablyrunning around Shurima.Like what? Desert.And so let's say you'rerunning around the desert.You quest with someone in Shurima, right?You do a quest or whatever.You want toeventually go to an Oasis hub.You're not grouped up.You're not talking or anything.And there's your boy just sitting thereshopping around selling his goods.You need that.Like it has to be where it's not doesn'thave to always be forced.The second you take away the meaningbehind meeting peoplewhere I'm never goingto see this person again,complete the grades of the community.I understand sharding helps a lot withserver load and all this stuff.But if you're goingto shard, it has to bemaybe at most three, three serverscombined or something like that.Even then, I'm not a fan.Like if you can manage itwhere it's just one server.And I understand also that, OK, if theserver gets full,what are you going to do?He wants to play with hisfriend who's on that server.Unfortunately, I don'thave the best answer for that.Maybe his maybe his friend has totransfer off or something.But you can't risk the whole communityfor that one interaction.Yeah. And I know servers have a cap.You can't have just frickin everyoneplaying the game in the same spotall at the same time.Game will crash. Can't do that.But sharding is not the answer.And it even sounds like a bad word.It sounds like trash because it is trashand it degrades the community likeservers are the number one thing thatI think I said it wrong.I said that they're thenumber one thing that can save.They're the most important thing for acommunity is the server.Yeah, yeah. Server is a foundation forthe community to be built upon.Definitely. I think it's it's a likepicture poisonsituation, but at the same time,it's not even a question for me.I will I will pick individual serversover like shared servers anytime,like crossing servers.And like you said, you also like whenyou're interacting with those players,you're going to see them again.That means guess what?You have a reputation on that server.So if you're in that dungeon and you grabthat piece of loot, you grab that gear.Did you open the chest before you rolled?Yeah, yeah. Guess what?Yeah. And you just youjust leave that group.You just disappear. Run away.That for some. With that clue.Yeah. Guess what, dude?You're going to see those people again.And guess what?They've been talking about you toeveryone else on the server.Next time you're in a dungeon,you better believethey're not counting your role.So like I love that because guess what?Now the riot team, they don't need likecrazy amount of like game moderatorsto make sure, youknow, that things are here.And yeah, yeah.Yeah. You don't need any like specialmechanics in the game.Oh, here's individual loot.So now that doesn't happen.No, no, no, no.Let the community handle it.Let us fight amongstourselves like ravaged wolves.All right.Exactly. Because that guess what?That creates cool moments.Yeah, you know,you're one time in a raid.No one's going to invite you ever again.Everyone's going to know your whole raid.Yeah. All 40 people are going to be inOrgrimmar talking shit about you.There's no way noteveryone is going to know.Like right now, you could absolutely dowhatever the heck you want.And wow, no one's going to say any.Even if they say something, who cares?Like, yeah, there's no way everyone'sgoing to find out about it.Yeah, because guess what?They're already inphase four of this realm.That's merged with this realmand you're on this from mergewith this from on phase three.They're never going to find you.It doesn't matter.You're never you're never going to seepeople again in your life.And they're going to haveno one to tell about you.So letting the community handle itself insome cases, not in all cases, obviously.But I feel like in the case of, yeah,obviously like, yeah,I think being able to screw each otherover is honestly important.And being able to have that sensecommunity where you cando something about it.And that's there.There are times where just let thecommunity interact with each other,whether it's positive or negative.Got to take it all.Take all all thoseexperiences in what happened.Yeah, exactly.The community will moderate itself.And I also think that there's another oneproblem that I I want this.I actually was thinking that maybe thatsolves it, but it really doesn't.You can have the bestcommunity in the world.But if like the economy of the server isnot fortified, it'sgoing to destroy the game.Even just as important as the community,I feel like bots, man.You have to handle bots.You cannot have this.The problems that Blizzard are havingwhen it comes to botsbecause it completely degrades away anyvalue to the end of the day.The money that you're making, that you'respending in the game,it's it's important,especially like let's say you're workinghard, you're creating all these potionsfor your guild, you know, and you putthem in the bank like that.That's a pretty cool thing to do.Like, wow, you know, I don'thave time to raid with my guild.I mostly do quest.I'm like, I'm a solo player.I don't have time to raid on theweekends, but I'm the guild's alchemist.Yeah, that's a cool thing.Like, what do I make sure Iget all the herbs together?I perform it.My guild pays me for that service. Right.Yeah. The second you degrade the value ofgold, that interaction is gone.Oh, because why are they going to careabout you when everythingis devalued on the market?Yeah, they can buy potions for nothingbecause there's justa bunch of bot farmersrunning around, erbing andmaking an infinite gold loop.You degrade everything.Everything gets degraded because of bots.Oh, yeah. Like it destroys the community.It destroys the economyand it'll destroy the game.No matter how much financial incentiveyou might have to keep bots aroundbecause they're technically paying a wowsub, technicallypaying a subscription feeif they have that, it's not worth it.I was literally just going to say thatthat I personally would not be surprisedif that's like Blizzard just kind of keepspots around because guess what?That's a lot of subscriptions are paying.But I think I was going to say that's thebiggest difference, I hope,just based on what I haveseen between Riot and Blizzardis that Riotunderstands the importance of PRfor the longevity ofyour games and your company.Please, Blizzard,please learn this lesson.But Riot gets it that you need consistentquality in your games.You need some honest systemsthat keep the players happy.Like, like, you know, for a fact thatProject Eliza is at the stick fighterthat's coming out.Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. You know, for a fact, they're goingto have some really good anti-cheaton that thing because Riot does not messaround with that kind of stuffbecause guess what?They want players tohave a good experience,want players to have a good time so theycan keep coming back.So like I believe that Riotwill invest a lot in anti-bottingand they won't like theywon't tolerate that stuffeven if it does make them,you know, a dollar today.It'll make them five dollarstomorrow to get rid of them.Yeah. Because playersare going to stick around.Yeah. Even hardcore right now.Everyone's bots.Yeah.It destroys the whole economy.Like you can't even what'sthe point of professions,which professions areso important and classic.Wow. That's going to be whole separate.What the heck's thepoint of the professionswhen the whole economy is shot?Mm hmm. Why are yougoing to work on making bagswhen there's a bot over there makingthousands of bags a minuteand just selling them on the auctionhouse for half the value?Yeah. It's not worth anything.Yep. Absolutely.Oh my God. We can talk aboutprofessions for a whole otherlike episode professions for an MMO areso insanely important.I really hope they do itright in the right MMO.Whatever that may mean,whether that's their own way or,you know, like an alreadyestablished way like in wow,I hope they do it right.But yeah, I mean, bots just so quicklykill that sense of community.And like we said, youknow, it keeps that game alive.It keeps it strong, keeps itgoing, keeps you coming back.It's the only thing. It's the moreimportant than anything more important.Horizontal verticalprogression, whatever, man.The community is themost important thing in MMO.And if you're if you sacrifice that, thenyou're going to sacrifice the game.Yeah, absolutely. Simple.Even like, dude, I see on Reddit all thetime around like any social media.Whenever you see people who have beenplaying an MMO, literally any MMO,they've been playing itfor like 10 years straight.And you ask them why they've been playingthe same game for 10 years.They will say it's justbecause I'm in a good guild.And my friends play itand we all play together.That's how we meet up. It's how we chatlike it goes beyond the game.At that point is the reason why you comeback is literally just for the peopleat that point. If youwant a long term player basethat will play the same game for adecade, that's theonly way you can do it.Because there's no way in heck you'regoing to make enough like contentor a variety of contentto keep them interested.You just got to have that strongfoundation and let people work off of it.And then there's the soanother thing around community.Right. One thing that I think Classic WoWdoes have is that youyou join a community right off the bat.Oh, yeah. That's the Horton Alliance.Yeah. You join a subcommunity in that group.If you're an orc, you're joining thatcommunity of orcs and trolls.If you're torn, you'rejoining the community.Mm hmm. One thing that I think might betough to do is howare they going to managethat when you feel a part of somethingright off the bat when you can't.They don't want they saidin the right amount interviewthat they don't want to make players orplayers can't play together.But if someone's from Demacia andsomeone's from Noxus,how are they going to play together?Yeah, I know. And now at this point, I'mwondering if they're even going to likedo something like that where like youidentify with a place,but then it's like, OK,then where do you start?Because where you start is always goingto have to have some significanceto your player, right? It can't just belike, oh, you're inyou're in the Freljord.And you want to satisfy that fantasy likesomeone wants to be a part of Ionia.Oh, yeah, they're going to take that awayby not letting them like I say that.Oh, I'm from Ionia.Dude. Yeah. Oh, my God.And once again, RP literally, that'sgoing to be its own thing.Yeah, that needs awhole hour of talking about.RP is so important.Like I, I never reallygot that into RP myself.But no, you need RP in an MMO.That's one of the biggest things about anMMO is that you have that server set up.You have that whole world.You can make your own character and youcan interact with other peopleslike originally created characters.Oh, you better believe RP is going to bea thing in this game.It better be. I'm surethey know that already.And you're going to take away RP if yousay you can't start from Demacia.You can't start from Noxus.Like there's going to bepeople want to be part of Noxus,people that want to be a part of Demacia.So I feel like youhave to allow for that.But then also, how do you you need tomake sure that those players are allowedto play together? Yeah,that's really difficult, then.I definitely see what you mean.And honestly, like, here's the thing Ilike, I already said earlier, like,oh, here's the expansion Ionia.I definitely think Ionia will not likewill be an expansionbecause I feel like Ionia deserves thatkind of attention as a zone.I agree that it deservesexpansion level attention.But then guess what?People are not going to beable to start from Ionia.And I like people to bereally mad about that.Then then. Yeah, you're right.And then it's like, how are they going tointeract with each otherif you're Noxus, Demacia, especiallybecause Noxus, Demaciamakes the most sense interms of starting zones.So here's what I came up with.This is my solution to this problem.OK, so instead of having you start atNoxus, you start atDemacia, which you do.You're from Demacia. Sure.But there's a wholeseparate system of likenot really guilds, but you know how inLegion I had class without thinking.Yeah, we're almost likeorder halls that order hall.Yeah, order halls where it's like, yeah,you don't really like people from Noxus,but you're working with themin like a truce to achieve this end.Yeah, some like some likeadventurers guild. Yeah.And that's how you can have thatwhere everyone's kindof working together.And then you can add that's a wholeanother layer of community.So now you're adding you're you'regaining a wholeanother layer of community,something that you'refeeling like you're unique.Your character is unique.You're a part of something.And then also that you're you can nowplay with your buddies.Yes, you being fromDemacia and him being from Noxus.Yeah, dude, I like that, actually.I'm into that.And then does that alsomean that if you're a Demaciaand you walk into an officecity, are you expecting to beable to walk in and do stuff?I don't think I don't thinkthat that should be allowed.I hope that's not allowed.Yeah, I don't know about ifyou want to walk through Noxus.You'd have to create acharacter from Noxus.I love that.I honestly, I like tobe for you to hate that.But I would like that so much.You're a human. How youcan walk through Orgrimmar?Yeah, exactly.How you can walk through Thunderblows.Guess what? You you picked your faction.You picked your team.You picked you picked yourcommunity, you know, and like eventhe other team is still part of yourcommunity just in a different way.They're still going to interact with you,but they're going to interactwith you by like buryinga sword into your skull.Yeah, you know, and I love that.You can't be a Froyo barbarian.Dude, they're going to kill you.Yeah, no, you shouldn't.You think that's so cool?Like that's so world building.You know, there's going to be placeswhere everyone can commute,interact together like Bilgewater.Bilgewater don't care.Yeah, Masiya, Noxus,Shriema, Targon don't matter.You're in Bilgewater.Shadow Isles, they kill indiscriminately.You could be fromanywhere in the little tank.Same with the Kathya and the Void.But yeah, there's certain places that youchose to be a part of the Masiya.No, you can't go to Noxus.Yeah, you can't walk into FrostgardenCitadel in the Froyord.Mm hmm.I can totally I can totally envision itwhere you are like in like the outlandsof Noxus, like the outer like grasslands.And you see Noxus off inthe distance as a Demacian.You're like, whoa, I can't go there.I can't imagine what's in there.Oh, that's that's crazy.There's other players in there like doingtheir own thingcompletely separate from me.I know. I always getinto my own head in MMOs.I get my own head of like how cool theworld is and just how alive it feels.And that's one of those things that wouldmake me feel like, wow,this is a legit world.The world's cooler whenyou can't explore all of it.Yeah, dude, seriously.When you just leave it to yourimagination, you know,like like maybe one dayin the future, when you're bored, you'remaking a Noxuscharacter just to check it out.But until then, yourmain with MMO first drops.You're looking at Noxus.You can be like, whoa, dude.That's the other place.There's going to be that talk about.Yeah, there's going to be that guy thatjust plays for Demacia and says,I've never been to Noxus.That's my people. Same with Noxus.There's going to be the Noxus guy whoonly makes Noxus characters,never going to seeDemacia unless he's raiding it.We better be able to raid cities.Yeah. Oh, we betterbe able to raid cities.God, world PvP.Yeah, world PvP has to be a thing too.That's another thing where we aredefinitely the minority, by the way.People hate world PvP in most games.Oh, you got you got to be able to opt in.I agree. Yeah, you need tobe able to opt in and out.I don't know if I'm going to PvP serversor if they're going to do,you know, opt in, opt out.I think PvP servers for mepersonally, I prefer PvP serverjust because I like thefeeling of you're committed now.Guess what? Thischaracter is on a PvP server.You made that choice.Yeah, yeah, you made that choice.You can't cry about it.Yeah, I like that.Kefir is just turning on or off becausethen also turning on or offleaves the situation oflike, OK, you're on the server.You turn PvP on as I mean, you can seeother players who have it turned off.Are you going to be in a separate phase?God forbid. You're a I don't know.I like that solution.I don't like that.I like that.I like the idea ofjust you chose PvP server.You know what you'regetting yourself into.And so does everyone elsewho opted into that PvP server.Be prepared to die.Yeah. Be prepared to get some cool winsand some very frustrating deaths.Because that's how world PvP works.Yeah, if you're in a city on a PvPserver, you know, everyone hereis willing to die at that like game.Yeah, fighting for noxious now.Yeah, yeah. And so if someone invadeslike everyone's going to be fighting.Yeah. But when you can opt in and out,like they're going to invadeand like half half people are going tofight at the base to be standing there.I miss I miss rating cities.Dude, I miss, you know, like obviously ifyou can't tell why now,I mean, I've played a lot of wow.Yeah. Boy, oh, boy.I play Horde and do Ilove being in Stormwind?I think some of my best memories havetaken place in Stormwind.Yeah, I literally love that.I played druid, but I would go feraldruid and I would just run around.Yeah. If anyone's in if anyone's incombat or can be attacked,I would fight them in Stormwind.And then I go back and just run aroundfor a while because I'm a druid.I just go swim through the water and getaway and go stealthy.Just a little bit of trolling.Yeah. Yeah. Because guess what?Maybe you're on the PvP server.Are you even just getting a big raidgroup together, getting like 40 playerstogether and just runningthrough those big gates,knowing what you're about to get yourselfinto and knowing that everyoneon the other side has no idea what'sabout to happen to them.They don't know what'sright outside their doors.If we can do that with Noxus and Demacia,the amount of joy that would bring meI even if you know, I'm with the Masseyand Chillin and guess what?Some 40 Noxus players come running in andabsolutely slaughter me.They destroy me.There's nothing left of me.I'm going to have a big smile on my facebecause I'm like,that's so that's so cool.Oh, my God. Can I evenplay the game anymore?I just have to log out because becausethey're just chilling here nowand we can't fight back.I don't know why I love that.I mean, it's like the masochist to mewhen it comes to MMOs.I love that kind of stuff because theonly place that you can do it.Yeah, exactly.If only MMOs are so special, man.That's what makes it special.That's what makes it fun is like thatunpredictability and that chaos.Little bit of chaos,and it's all real players.Yeah. Oh, my God. Absolutely.And like most of the time, like, youknow, like in the parallel with Wow,if that rate does happen, chances are,you know, like the raid groupis going to eventually die out.Either guards are going to like overwhelmbecause they're going to spawn foreveror better yet.What happens most of the time is that theenemy faction will regroup.You know, they'll form a raid of theirown to fight back and defend.Because guess what?All those poor guys in the auction housethat barely play the game.Now they have to actually do something.Do you force their hand?And so that's probably one of the bestexperiences they'll have all weekin that game. That'ssomething they don't remember.Yeah, it's something they'll remember.They'll remember the time where theypushed the horde out of Stormwindin a completecommunity driven experience.And that's so special.Dude, please. Demacia Knox isnow I want that even more now.I know there's that everywhere.There's Piltover and Zahn.You can't be a Zahnite and just startwalking around Piltoverand you can't be a Piltijust walking around Zahn.You think they'll do something like that?Like the what's it called?The blood cell buccaneers?Maybe in a while.I think that'd be cool if you have a likereputations.But problem is Zahn is way moreinteresting than Piltover.Yeah, Piltover getsslept on a little bit.There's definitely somedepth there in Piltover.It's just not as not as much as likethere's depth in Demacia.But people prefer Noxus.There's depth in Piltover.But people prefer the theme of Zahn.People love it.It's not as much for interest.People feel like Piltover is theoppressive, like super top people.And we're like we're like they're almostlike stealing from the people of Zahn.Right. Yeah.Like from the poor, lower class.That's why people are like relate more toZahn because none of usare in the 0.01 percent.Right. That's whatPiltover feels like at times.So then the other problem.Right. We were saying that the wholeworld, they're not going to include allof Runeterra at launch.And they said in the Raidemo in theRaidemo interview with Necrit, they said,we have a vision for thecomplete world of Runeterra.And it's just a matter of steps to getthere to get at the end goal of thecomplete world of Runeterra.They're not going to include all of it.So obviously, that's it.They don't include Ionia.That's not going tobe included at launch.How are you going to be able to RP thatcharacter from Ionia that's interactingwith the rest of the world when Ionia isnot yet or Freljord or wherever?My solution was you havelike a small little area, right?A small little outcrop in Ionia or smalllittle outcrop in the Freljord wherepeople you live, you start out there, youhave your little starting zone.Then you move out tothe rest of the world.Look, if you look at themap, it's like Freljord, right?You start off, let's say, a spiritwalker, you train under Udyr, then youimmediately, right after the startingzone, move out intothe rest of the world.Yeah, Ionia, you start on your littleisland outcrop, you start right there andthen you move out to the rest of theworld becausetechnically Ionia isn't out yet.Yeah, that was my solution.Yeah, honestly, I thinkthat's a pretty likely solution.I know in that case, are we saying thatzones, what zone you start off in, isthat completely your choice?No matter what class you play or is itclass dependent, do you think?Oh, I think there's going to be classdependent classes where that decideswhich zone you start in.Then there's also like the general, Imean, oh, yeah, if you're like, it'sgoing to be a warrior, it's going to belike some kind of mage.Yeah, a warrior with like a differentkind of ability based on the zone thatyou're in, you know, if you're in Ionia,it's going to be like maybe a spirit,more spirit realm ability type thing.If you're in Nox, it'd be like a downslam they get or an enrage.Oh, that's cool.I like that where it's it'sa it's like a racial ability.Yeah. Like in WoW, but instead it's morelike a like an origin ability.Yeah. Whatever.Like because I'm like, like, you know,I'm probably going to play a yordle nomatter where I start off.Yeah. Like where I start off will dependon my starting like a core ability that Iautomatically get no matter what.Like I play as long as I'm in Noxus, I'mgoing to get that cool ability.You're a warrior if you pilt over, youget like a grenade or something.Who knows? Yeah.That's something that builds water.You get like a random.Do you pull out a pistol?Just shoot. Yeah.Like one good shot.Oh, I love that.Yeah. Yeah. There'sdefinitely going to be that.And there's certain classes that are justthey're not everywhere.You know, if you're if you are a monk,you're going to be from Ionia.Like you can't be a monk from Noxus.So there'll be classes that are that arezone specific andthere'll be classes that aremore generalized.Yeah, I like that idea, actually.I think that's cool.So we could definitely go on for hoursand hours talking about the right.Oh, what we want to see,what we don't want to see.But we'll continue this conversation inthe next episode right herein the brazen hydro pub of Bilgewater.You can find me and grow up on socialsand on YouTube in conquest.Do you have any socialsyou want to throw out?Not yet. I'll price up a Twitter and I'llhave my own Reddit page at some pointwhere I will post lotsof funny random things.And so we're going to be setting up a Q&Astory suggestions area.We'll let you know whenthose get set up to stay todayon the goings on.Make sure to follow at the brazen Hydraor head to the brazen hydro dot com.Thanks for stopping by.We'll see you in the next one.

The Brazen Hydra

#1 - Riot MMO News, what we want to see and what we dont, Runeterra Lore

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