Were Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Misskelley victims of a modern-day witch hunt, or were they truly guilty of the horrifying crimes for which they were convicted? Join us in this electrifying episode as Jay and I lock horns over the polarizing West Memphis Three case. I argue that these teenagers were unfairly targeted due to their intelligence and nonconformity in a conservative town, while Jay contends with the disturbing elements of Aleister Crowley's teachings being used as evidence against them. We also scrutinize the lack of DNA evidence and the role of media, especially documentaries, in shaping public opinion and highlighting the questionable competence of the lead investigator.
Our investigation doesn’t stop there. We shift our focus to other potential suspects, Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers, and dissect their behaviors, testimonies, and personal histories, including allegations of satanic cult involvement. We probe into emotional and psychological impacts, biases in the trial, and the potential cover-up theories that swirl around the case. With the added dimension of celebrity involvement, particularly Peter Jackson's financial support, this discussion raises essential questions about the integrity of the legal proceedings and the broader implications of community corruption. This episode promises a riveting examination of one of the most debated murder cases in recent history, challenging your perspectives every step of the way.
Come back every Tuesday for a new episode each week. You won't be dissappointed, I'll tell you that for free. Subscribe and like us over at sockeytome.com as we begin the best part of our journey into podcasting yet, interacting with all of you. Give us your email as we begin to have more promotions and contests along with my personal favorite, trivia. Thanks everyone and as always, be good.
Were Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Misskelley victims of a modern-day witch hunt, or were they truly guilty of the horrifying crimes for which they were convicted? Join us in this electrifying episode as Jay and I lock horns over the polarizing West Memphis Three case. I argue that these teenagers were unfairly targeted due to their intelligence and nonconformity in a conservative town, while Jay contends with the disturbing elements of Aleister Crowley's teachings being used as evidence against them. We also scrutinize the lack of DNA evidence and the role of media, especially documentaries, in shaping public opinion and highlighting the questionable competence of the lead investigator.
Our investigation doesn’t stop there. We shift our focus to other potential suspects, Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers, and dissect their behaviors, testimonies, and personal histories, including allegations of satanic cult involvement. We probe into emotional and psychological impacts, biases in the trial, and the potential cover-up theories that swirl around the case. With the added dimension of celebrity involvement, particularly Peter Jackson's financial support, this discussion raises essential questions about the integrity of the legal proceedings and the broader implications of community corruption. This episode promises a riveting examination of one of the most debated murder cases in recent history, challenging your perspectives every step of the way.
Come back every Tuesday for a new episode each week. You won't be dissappointed, I'll tell you that for free. Subscribe and like us over at sockeytome.com as we begin the best part of our journey into podcasting yet, interacting with all of you. Give us your email as we begin to have more promotions and contests along with my personal favorite, trivia. Thanks everyone and as always, be good.
Speaker 1:
Hey everybody, welcome to Saki Tubi. Hey everybody, welcome back for the second half of the WM3 episode between myself and my buddy Jay. We're here, we're going to finish it up this week. Here's a little clip where we're going to recap what happened last time and try and catch you up so you can get started right away. Alright, guys, enjoy.
Speaker 1:
So we are here today to discuss WM3 and the nature of it, and you and I have very different opinions on this, which is going to be crazy. I still don't know exactly what your opinion is. My opinion is it's cohesion or collusion. That small white bread infested town, they all stick together and they pick three kids to just destroy. So you think the kids were targeted, absolutely Okay. The reason I think that is because Damien Echols was the smartest person out of all of them. He was 18. He's smarter than the adults. So we're talking about West Memphisphis, arkansas. West memphis, arkansas. That's correct.
Speaker 1:
These are very pertinent points in this case. No, they're using alistair crowley to prove this, which I could say I need to go and do something good for somebody. And that's what Aleister Crowley is actually saying Do what thou wilt, right? So if I want to go out and help people. I can go out and help people and it doesn't matter. No one's going to stop me from helping people. You're right, you're not wrong. You can take it the other direction which you're going in now.
Speaker 1:
So you can't use Aleister Crowley's statements as evidence, as this is what would happen. All that I'm saying is that there is a belief system involved here where, when you couple that with black magic, there is a belief system that's involved here. There is, and you and I both know this. But there and welcome to the episode. Here we go. It's the way people have been put down and held down, and they try and rise up against it. And then how do I even put this without being too controversial?
Speaker 1:
The evil people hide under the guise of good, and it's the whole story which you know. The devil's greatest trick is the fact that he made people believe that he never existed. So, in order to, if the devil doesn't want to exist, you can't blame Satanism or the devil on anyone else, because then he would have to exist Well, let's put Satanism and everything and all that stuff behind us and let's just focus on Aleister Crawley and his teachings, his books and everything Wiccan, all that stuff behind us, and let's just focus on Aleister Crowley and his teachings. His books and everything are a major role in the case. We just tried to do that and I said I want to focus on just being good. Maybe that's what Aleister Crowley was teaching me, but those weren't the passages that were underlined in Damien's book. Those weren't the focus of a lot of the things involved here. It wasn't about doing good deeds. What they were talking about was and this again coincides with Damien has told multiple counselors what his mission in life was. That's a true story. So his mission in life is to become the greatest magician that ever lived and to become the most powerful. Did you ever watch the Illusionist? Yeah, lived, and become the most powerful. Did you ever watch the Illusionist? Yeah, now, aleister Crowley talked about magic and talked about power, and he described a way to achieve the greatest power was through murder and through the consumption of blood and sexual organs of a child. Aleister Crowley taught of these things. That's what he believed of a child. Aleister Crawley taught of these things, that's what he believed, and those were some of the experiments that Aleister Crawley actually was carrying out in his private life.
Speaker 1:
One of the bits of evidence that was involved in the case was an Aleister Crawley book in Damien's room. In the book there were underlying passages. I've got theories about all that. Before we hear your theories, let's talk about the case evidence. I know this came into the case. He had underlined passages that specifically discussed consuming blood and genital organs from a child. The younger, the better, the more pure, the more power. Those passages were underlined in the book that was found in Damien's room. Who underlined them? Allegedly it was Damien. Allegedly, that's correct. Allegedly, jesse Meskelly gave a statement in the police car ride to jail. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. But this is evidence.
Speaker 1:
If we found books in my room, there was no DNA in that crime scene from any one of the three kids. Why? Because they were moved, because they were thrown in the water. That's why by the kids. The kids could not pick them up and throw them in the water. They were second graders. When I was 18 years old, I could grab a second grader and toss his ass in the river, no problem. Then why was there evidence of both Byers and Hobbs at the scene? They were kids. That's what you want to go with. There's no DNA, no DNA, no DNA. Nothing at all that incriminatingly ties these three kids to the crime scene because they were thrown in the water. But you just jumped trains we were talking about Alistair Crawley and the book in his room and then you jumped into two guys who were not on trial. Those two gentlemen are on trial because people that shoot documentaries said let's draw the attention over here, we're trying to prove the innocence of these boys, let's draw the attention over here. I think it's terrible that they chose the boy's father. This isn't necessarily because of the documentaries. This is because of all the research I've done. Okay, and yes, alistair Crowley doesn't. Just, coincidentally, the two documentaries.
Speaker 1:
Why is the one person that brought up the police officer? The head police officer had no idea what the hell was going on. He didn't know anything. That was not Griffiths. Griffiths was the doctor who didn't have any degrees sitting on trial. He had a degree from a college that didn't exist. It wasn't even there.
Speaker 1:
There's too many question marks in this thing to be true. Depends on where you look. If you look at all of the evidence that is there, there is a lot of evidence. There's other types of evidence other than DNA. If you look at all the evidence, it points to Byers and Hobbes. I disagree completely? You can, and I hope you do, because that's the way the show goes. It's got to be polarizing.
Speaker 1:
Like I said, I'm not saying that the kids weren't coerced into it like Primal Fear, like a whole church thing or a whole Cub Scout thing or whatever, I don't know. I'm just there's never been police evidence enough to go and arrest these two gentlemen. There wasn't enough police evidence to arrest the three kids and they did it anyway. There was absolutely enough police evidence to arrest those boys. What was the evidence? First of all, the knife in the lake. No, that wasn't why they arrested them. They arrested them because If the knife's in the lake, how are they getting any DNA off that they arrested? The Second of all, how about the knife Byers gave to the HBO guy?
Speaker 1:
You're focusing on the documentary right now. Yes, on evidence from a documentary rather than evidence that was collected by the police officers. It's still evidence and testimonies, but I'm just saying, first of all, you have this argument that these boys were targeted because of the way they dress and the music they listen to. I'm not saying they were targeted. That was what the mainstream narrative was. I'm not saying they were targeted. So was what the mainstream narrative was. I'm not saying they were targeting. So one thing that contradicts that is the boys were not arrested immediately. They weren't arrested for like two weeks after the case. That would actually explain why they were targeted. The reason that they were targeted initially was based on a phone call from Damien's girlfriend's aunt. Damien's girlfriend's aunt called the police and said the night of those murders I not only saw Damien Echols at where that crime scene was. At 9.30 PM I saw him there and he was covered in mud. That's what drew the initial attention to Damien to get them to start looking around at Damien, not the way he dressed or his hair or his terrible reputation.
Speaker 1:
There was reports from the town that talked about Damien and his friends having satanic ritual gatherings where they would have not only orgies but they would kill dogs and cats and even consume portions of the dogs and the cats and drink their blood and all these things that coincide a lot with satanic rituals. Then where are these people? What people? The people that would say that? Where are they? They gave testimony. A lot of them gave testimony.
Speaker 1:
There was even a girl that gave testimony that, the girl that skipped town, the girl that moved in and all of a sudden left. That's sketchy as hell. Why was she there? What girl are you talking about? There was a girl that claimed she saw everything, testified against it and three days later she's gone. The woman I'm talking about was Damien's girlfriend who lived in town that said she saw her. But there was another girl that gave testimony about how she saw it also and then left. She had just moved into town recently, said she saw it and then left. There's another young girl who said she heard Damien bragging about it. A young girl. She heard him bragging about it. She heard Damien bragging about it. That's interesting. So you hear somebody bragging about it, but the boys weren't arrested. That's proof. The aunt's testimony was what drew the attention to Damien, but the boys weren't arrested until Jesse and Miss Kelly said we did that, the three boys. We were there After 12 hours of interrogation with no legal representation Like this is all speculation.
Speaker 1:
Everything we're saying is speculation because everything was handled so haphazardly. There's five accounts of Jesse confessing Five accounts. I think Jesse maybe has a low IQ, but I think he's smart enough to know that if he keeps saying that he killed somebody, he's going to be convicted of the murder. If people keep saying just say it, just say it. That's what police officers do. They just hammer you with everything. I don't think anyone's hammering him in the car on the way to jail Absolutely. That's what they do. That's what they're taught. That's how they do. That's what they're taught. That's how they work. Did you know that?
Speaker 1:
Jesse Miskelley, his own mother stepmother she reported that the day after the murders, before anyone was arrested, before any police were involved, he walked around the house all day sobbing All day. So maybe he's a low IQ, he's this or that, but that guilt was getting to him. He walked around the house all day sobbing, according to Before the murders. The day after the murders, day after, but before anybody was arrested, before anyone was questioned, he walked around the house all day sobbing and his stepmother found it weird. And then she reports that later that day she had another boy come over to his house and pick up his muddy sneakers and get rid of them. His mother reported that His stepmother that's a little hard to argue with and then his stepmother left his father because of this. Look, no offense. How do you know that?
Speaker 1:
They didn't find those boys there? They didn't do it. They found them. They were out doing whatever they were doing Riding bikes, whatever they found the boys in there, their clothes were muddy. One Riding bikes, whatever they found the boys in there, their clothes were muddy, their sneakers were muddy. They were walking through the stream, the crick, I think any murder situation you could possibly come, any example that you could come up with of a murder that took place.
Speaker 1:
You could take the suspects and say, well, what if they didn't murder them? What if they walked in and they were already murdered? What if they found them? Whatever, all I'm saying is they didn't just base this conviction, this arrest and all these things off of one bit of evidence. There's a lot of things going on. They didn't do it right.
Speaker 1:
It was Terry Hobbs and Mike Byers and they probably that is a huge accusation to make to say that these two men who lost their children, that not only that, they did it. That is a really harsh accusation. They weren't their kids. They weren't their kids. You ever notice that not one person has the same last name, except for Damien Echols.
Speaker 1:
We're talking about Arkansas. That's correct, and they're all stepfathers or mother's boyfriends. That's what we're talking about here. You mean to tell me that you're not involved in some sort of deep level child porn ring that you care about your stepchild enough that you're not going to do this, or you're such a twisted fuck that you take these three kids and get them to do it with you. But what you're talking about right now is based off of stereotype, based off of appearances. You'd be wrong. What you're doing You'd be wrong. What you're doing is what Hollywood is claiming happened to these boys. No, again, those men were not investigated as suspects. Those men were not held on trial. These boys were. And based on. We're talking about a small town in Arkansas. You're right, they weren't. How come the Duke boys never got in trouble? How come Boss Hog couldn't catch them? Exactly? They stick together and there's like 3,500 people in the town. They all belong to the same church. They all stick together, they all know each other. It's a close-knit town.
Speaker 1:
These two had a satanic cult going by themselves, these two older men. They might have drawn these three kids in. Sure. Maybe Damien Echols was their number one draw and he obviously had Jason. What is it? Jackson, jason, baldwin, baldwin, baldwin and then Jesse. And they came and maybe they made him do it, maybe they made him watch him, who knows. But those two dudes, facial expressions alone in their testimonies fucking liars. And they did it. 100% no doubt about it. I don't care, that's where I got it from. I'm not going on what anybody else said. I'm going on what I've read. Facial expression was where they are liars. Terry Hobbs would not answer a fucking question. Terry Hobbs wasn't on trial. He wasn't on trial but he had a deposition where they asked him all about stuff.
Speaker 1:
Mark Byers' wife goes murdered. They don't know who murdered her. It was him Because she was going to talk about it. She knew more than she should. He killed her son, that is. I mean, that's just based off of old school police work. His ignorance, jay, his ignorance alone, his ignorance alone, his ignorance alone says to me that he did it. His ignorance of just screaming out all these things about God and pissing and crapping on their grave sites like that's too much, bro, where, where would you be mentally, emotionally, this and that.
Speaker 1:
If you were a hillbilly guy from Arkansas and your boy was murdered like that, if I was trying to defend myself, I'd be right where Mark Byers was. That's what I'd be doing, trying to pretend I didn't do it. But even if you didn't do it, you probably would respond very similarly. If I didn't do it, I'd be more like Damien Echols. I feel like Damien Echols was pretty bold in that courtroom where, like I said before, he answered all the questions. That didn't make a scene out of it. I feel like Damien Echols was trying to tell you he didn't do it. Well, he was trying to tell you he did it. That's fine. I'm not basing my information on that. I'm not even saying you're wrong on that. I won't, because you could be right. I'm saying that Mark Byers is trying to defend himself without defending himself. He's trying to point the finger at everyone else and everything else. He's bringing up such an agitator and the things he says to everybody at all, even police officers. And his DNA is there. I get it. It's his kid, I understand.
Speaker 1:
I was disturbed by this whole story just because I could relate, because I knew a kid who was in second grade, or just because one of my sons was around the age of being in second grade. This story very drastically affected me. I couldn't imagine if it was my son. I get that it would be terrible to turn around and then be convicted or even accused. Did you know that, terry Hob be terrible to turn around and then be convicted or even accused. Did you know that Terry Hobbs' father was a butcher?
Speaker 1:
In the court proceedings, they said you'd have to be very skilled with a knife to be able to do this. That's not true either, because the other argument was that nobody did this and that while they were in the water snapping turtles, the animals ate them. Yeah, where it's like you can't go from, you'd have to be a very skilled butcher To take the skin of a penis off. A snapping turtle ain't going to take the skin of a penis off. According to the testimony from Jesse Miskelly, they cut this kid's penis off and his balls and at some point, according to the story, damien had them in his mouth, which is again in direct correlation to the things written by Aleister Crawley on how to achieve the kind of power Damien spoke of trying to achieve.
Speaker 1:
Without getting into anything too personal, I don't really much believe a lot of what's written in a report because it's to their own narrative. So if they want it to go somewhere, they're going to make it go that way. You could definitely say the same for about some people at HBO. Absolutely correct. I'm not saying anything about HBO. I'm not trying to prove to you that. I'm saying that any kind of report is pretty much doctored and I use the term doctored here lightly, but it's fitting a narrative of what they wanted to happen, sure, so I would think too that, if you know, all these Hollywood celebrities have decided that this is their. Forget the celebrities. Who cares about that? The celebrities were huge. Because the celebrities, they were huge in order to, in order to gain attention, which is probably why we're talking about it.
Speaker 1:
There would be no Alford plea involved in this case if not for the tens of millions of dollars that were raised. Well, because they didn't know about the Alford plea. Want to hear a funny story? I didn't know about it. I'm just saying Tens of millions of dollars can make a lot of things happen in our legal system, and that's 100 percent true and I won't disagree with you. You're right. Eleven million dollars from Peter Jackson alone. The justice system has to be looked at at some point because it's crazy.
Speaker 1:
But if you take again the Aleister Crowley route and then go back now and start investigating the particular celebrities involved, could you say that the particular celebrities that got overly involved and showed their support to raise this kinds of tens of millions of dollars that essentially led to these boys, who should be on death row, I believe, who should be facing death sentences for what they did. They share a common belief system. Like you've seen in holy wars, if a belief system is shared by a group of people, they will go to war over that belief system, and I believe that the common ground in all this whole thing is there is a belief in the teachings and philosophies of Alistair Cronin. I think you're right a quarter right, a quarter correct, I think. Personally, I think that the celebrities that have been in this and I don't know why that's important, because it has nothing to do with the real case, except for the fact that they raised money to get them out of jail, where they should have been anyway You're also talking about a particular group of people, but we're not talking about the right particular group of people, and that's the group of people that put them're not talking about the right particular group of people, and that's the group of people that put them in jail in the first place.
Speaker 1:
The celebrities came to the rescue of these three boys for what the rest of that town was doing. That's a theory. That's a theory. They stood up for it. They said nope, you can't do this. A theory, though, is just a theory.
Speaker 1:
Same as I heard this, I heard that, unless you have substantial evidence of it, there was evidence that led, there was suspicious activity that led to the interest in these three boys. Then there was evidence and confessions that led to the arrest of these three boys. If you and I were out, then there was two court cases that led to boys. If you and I were out, then there was two court cases that led to the conviction. If you and I were out and wanted to do devious things, right, we just wanted to go out and do devious things, and we were like hey, there's these three kids around the corner that we can have help with. Just blame it on them, don't worry, I'm friends with the pastor. My father's a pastor and a butcher, right. Then you go hey, you know, goofballs, come with us, we're going to do something. You guys, we heard you like Satan, shit, come with us, let's hang out. Next thing, you know, three kids are dead and you're blaming them, even though you were in on it, and you can get away with it because you got everything else behind you. So that's my thought process on it.
Speaker 1:
I'm not saying that the boys weren't involved. I'm not saying that they're innocent. I'm not saying that they're guilty. Personally, my thought they didn't do it. I think they had something to do with it. I think they're accessories. I think something happened and everybody knows about it. That's why the guy with the low IQ is spouting out. He's not smart enough to keep his mouth shut. So right, possibly, but Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers had everything to do with it. Terry Hobbs was arrested for like 17 different things. His wife knew about it. I can't believe she's not dead. I bet you the whole community was a shady group of people. That's what I'm saying. Sure, that's what I'm saying. Sure, that's what I'm saying. It wasn't just those two, it was everybody that covered it up and blamed it on the three kids.
Speaker 1:
Most crimes, okay, have a clear-cut perspective of benefit. Nobody benefits from this murders, absolutely In any way, financially or otherwise. Do you know how there's those lower levels, or those secret levels not lower levels, but secret levels of like masons I'm going to use the term Knights of Columbus. I don't want them to be associated with this, but you get what I'm getting at. Those type of things, like those rings, and they sit there. And then all of a sudden, these guys are all sitting in this small room smoking cigarettes, playing cards, and they're all like a brethren. And they have these. Maybe they wear cloaks, maybe they don't, maybe they carry shovels, maybe they just carry hammers, whatever. And they sit there and they're like, alright, I need to get my fix tonight. We're gonna find the three boys.
Speaker 1:
That shit happens also, but we don't talk about that stuff. Nobody dives deep enough to get there and why not? Like, that's pretty much where it goes and that's where this small connected town probably lands. And they took the three kids and, like I said, I'm not saying they did it or didn't do it, I don't know. I don't think they did, but I'm not saying they didn't. All I'm saying is I think Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers had everything to fucking do with it, because they probably played cards with the chief of police. I see where you're going with that, mr Schilner. He's the chief of police and it gets intertwined Because it's so small it's only 3,500 people. It's easy to then start this little thing and they're below the Bible Belt, which they guise everything. And this is why everything gets blamed by Christians because this is what it looks like and it's not really any Christian's fault, but these two idiots killed their own kids and blamed three other kids on it for it.
Speaker 1:
Well, I believe in life. Whether we're talking about jfk, assassination, moon landing, whatever, whatever you want to talk about, I think what it comes down to is you can pose an intelligent argument, you can pose a compelling, you know, bit of information that makes someone think about things from that different perspective, or whatever Makes someone open their eyes a little bit. Whatever Bottom line is I don't think we'll ever know exactly what really happened in any of these situations, but it still makes for compelling content. Well, the hill that I will die on right now is I do not believe that this was a clear-cut case of these boys got convicted of this crime solely because they had long hair and black t-shirts and listened to Metallica that they got death sentences for it. I don't believe that. I don't either, because actual heavy metal makes you less likely to commit crimes, sure, but when you listen to Henry Rollins and Marilyn Manson, all these guys keep spouting and spouting. This was simply these boys dress different and that's why they got convicted. There's a lot more evidence than that. If you want to put it in perspective, today's terms pronouns Enough said done. On that fact, we went way over.
Speaker 1:
This is going to be a two-parter. You don't have to edit this. No, I'm going to cut it in half and have people come back, but we are at the end of this right now. That was a hell of an episode. I'm glad you came in. I miss you, buddy. Glad you're here. Jay's here with me, don't forget about that. And we are at the end of this episode. If you have anything to say about WM3, like and subscribe, and you know, show up and comment. Anyway, that's about the end of this. So, as always, be good, saki-tomi. Hey, everybody, it's Ditto. Thanks for checking out our show today. Hope you enjoyed it. If you did, subscribe to us, we can hook up, interact. You can tell us what you like about the show, talk about what you don't like about the show, give us information and insight. We'd appreciate it. We only want to make the show better for you guys. Also, if you get a chance, could really do some business. All right, as always, everybody be good.
