When was the last time you felt truly heard? That's the essence of our latest discussion with Angie Rosier, where we unravel the threads of choice in the tapestry of childbirth. We share intimate experiences from the front lines, where advocacy makes all the difference, and where knowledge became a beacon of empowerment for parents.
We also celebrate the often overlooked beauty of preparation, not just in medical terms, but in fostering joy and strength as families embark on this transformative journey. If you're looking for a blend of heartfelt stories and practical advice, allow this episode to accompany you in embracing all the choices at your fingertips.
Visit our website, here: https://birthlearning.com/
Follow us on Facebook at Birth Learning
Follow us on Instagram at @birthlearning
Show Credits
Host: Angie Rosier
Music: Michael Hicks
Photographer: Toni Walker
Episode Artwork: Nick Greenwood
Producer: Gillian Rosier
Voiceover: Ryan Parker
When was the last time you felt truly heard? That's the essence of our latest discussion with Angie Rosier, where we unravel the threads of choice in the tapestry of childbirth. We share intimate experiences from the front lines, where advocacy makes all the difference, and where knowledge became a beacon of empowerment for parents.
We also celebrate the often overlooked beauty of preparation, not just in medical terms, but in fostering joy and strength as families embark on this transformative journey. If you're looking for a blend of heartfelt stories and practical advice, allow this episode to accompany you in embracing all the choices at your fingertips.
Visit our website, here: https://birthlearning.com/
Follow us on Facebook at Birth Learning
Follow us on Instagram at @birthlearning
Show Credits
Host: Angie Rosier
Music: Michael Hicks
Photographer: Toni Walker
Episode Artwork: Nick Greenwood
Producer: Gillian Rosier
Voiceover: Ryan Parker
Welcome to the Ordinary Dula Podcast with Angie Rozier, hosted by Birth Learning, where we help prepare folks for labor and birth with expertise coming from 20 years of experience in a busy Dula practice helping thousands of people prepare for labor, providing essential knowledge and tools for positive and empowering birth experiences.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Ordinary Dula Podcast. This is Angie Rozier host and we are sponsored by Birth Learning. So today I want to talk a bit about choice and how important it is to have and be able to exercise or have choices for one thing and be able to exercise your own power in making choices, and I've had a few experiences with clients in the last few weeks that have just driven this home to me again how important it is to make choice. So it is very easy for a pregnant person to get kind of swept up in the well-oiled machine system of prenatal care, right, and that follows us into labor and delivery. Like you walk into labor and delivery unit and hospital, they're going to know what to do to help you. They're going to send you through their system almost regardless of what happens and how your labor unfolds. They're going to be ready for it and we kind of feel like you get put on a conveyor belt in this system like someone becomes pregnant, they go to their visits, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:We go through the pregnancy or doing all this stuff, the test at the appropriate times, the ultrasounds at the appropriate times, so you kind of get into this system and then we get to the labor part and it's less predictable and we, you know, we have all kinds of situations that can present differently throughout a pregnancy but by and large it's pretty systematic until you get to labor, and then a lot of it can go a lot of different ways and it's different for people. It's always different. And as people look back, as we look back on people's birth experiences, you know, for those of us who work in this field, we want them, especially doulas. That's our specialty is we want people to have a positive experience like giving birth. Going through labor is big, it's a big deal, it's not, you know, just like hey, I'm going shopping today, I'm going to, or you know the daily things that we do. This is like a different kind of day in your life and it is unpredictable and sometimes that can feel scary. Sometimes it's exciting because it we don't know. We don't know how it's going to go until we're in it, until it's happening. So preparation goes a long way and we find that people have more. They're much more likely to have positive experiences in childbirth when they are part of the decision making process and that should not be rocket science to anyone, but when you feel like you are part of your own experience, that you had a voice, that people heard you, that you were able to make decisions and not just have things be happening to you, that has a huge impact on your perception as to whether your birth was awesome or traumatic, and it breaks my heart how many folks have traumatic birth stories. Cool day you're meeting a human right Like this brand new human, and hopefully that can be done in a way that is positive and respectful and includes you in your very own care.
Speaker 2:So a couple client situations over the last few weeks have again just taught me the importance of choice. One of these had a mom who is doing a V-Back after having had two Caesareans, and I've helped many people in that situation. Some of them have a repeats third Caesareans and many, however, have had a successful vaginal delivery. Given that you know, everything lines up, they have the proper support and, yeah, the baby's cooperating positions, cooperating all the things. There's a lot of components that go into that, but I have a client who wanted so badly to have this V-Back after two C sections she traveled to a facility and providers that she found to be the most supportive of that, so she was traveling a good almost an hour to her appointments, kind of sought out a doctor who is going to be very supportive of that, and that can be tricky to find depending on where you live. She was feeling really good about everything and things were looking good. They really were looking good.
Speaker 2:So she went into labor and labor took a normal course, like you know, nothing unusual about it. Everything was quite encouraging throughout the process as far as having a V-Back and she was such a great advocate for herself and she set up that way, set it up for herself that way and as Dula's we definitely supported her and that we did a lot of work with her ahead of time, as we do with our clients. That's emotional work and you know preparation, knowing what to expect and putting some tools in place and kind of talking about how she saw things going how she wanted her partner involved all the things that Dula does with someone. So we're moving through the labor process. Everything was great, dilyed, a little slow, as I recall, but we, you know, got to 10 centimeters, got to pushing and she was a mighty like, mighty strong pusher. It was amazing and everyone was encouraged her whole team, everyone was very supportive of her. They were able to hear her stories. As she said hey, this is what's been hard for me in the past and she had had some traumatic situations with her previous C-sections at different hospitals with different providers. That's why she changed.
Speaker 2:She was seeking something different and as we progressed through this second stage, or the pushing process, at a certain point it became doubtful for the first time at this stage that if this was going to be possible to have a V-Back, and that was tough, that was really tough. When you're working with someone who wants this so bad and you know how important that is to them, it's hard. It can be super hard when it doesn't work out amazingly in their favor. Well, everything is fine. The provider said I don't know if this is going to work out. This mom kind of formulated a plan and, given that you need to understand that the baby was doing fine right, when babies are great and they're Doing fine, we can we have a lot of leeway to try different things and do different things.
Speaker 2:So this mom formulated a plan and her team was amazing at the hospital to support her plan, and so she wanted to to push for a certain amount of time more and then assess progress and then Decide from there what you know what, what the next course of action would be. And she wanted to have a rest period in there. So I'm just gonna chill for a while. I want some time alone and and her team was amazing to support her. And then in the end she did end up having a third cesarean, which is tough, and we've done some talking and processing afterwards about that, because that's not what she wanted, it's not what she planned for. But, I will say, legitimately, this team gave her every single opportunity To have a V back and she took every single opportunity. She gave herself every single opportunity and explored every nook and cranny of the possibilities Available to her and in the end, were required another cesarean. But Having the choice and laying out her own plan, she's like all right, here's what I want, I'm gonna do this for a while, but I'm gonna do this and then I'll make a decision and we'll reassess from there. Having that opportunity Gave her power in the situation where she was in charge of her own labor. Granted, like I said before, sometimes Based on baby situations, we don't have that much time or or leeway, but for this moment was super important that she did not feel powerless as she had done in other situations and our team was really great to support that. But choice was all about choice.
Speaker 2:Another situation I've had recently. I had a client sweetest, sweetest client and Kind of older mom starting as her first baby not not terribly old, I'm, but a little bit older than some clients and had some ideas of how she wanted her labor and her birth to go. She herself had done a lot of preparation, a lot of research and Wanted a type of birth that she had in her mind. She'd been thinking about this event for years and working towards it and was so Excited and grateful to be at the point where she would be having a baby. So she was had a certain provider at a certain hospital and I happen to know this hospital's culture is a little bit interesting around some of the things that this mom is Desiring and makes me work a little harder in that hospital. But that's my job, that's okay, whereas some hospitals, you know, everything the mom wants is falls in line with the hospital, practices and policies and procedures, just the culture of the place. But this particular hospital didn't share the same culture as the values of what this mom was seeking for her labor and birth.
Speaker 2:So she got closer and closer to her due date. She was seeing an OB. She was feeling pretty uneasy in some of her visits with what the OB was saying and suggesting and she Starting to realize that this might not be a very good match. And she was like 38 weeks, I think, and called me and said I just came home in tears like from my appointment my doctor. She said you know, this is not a buffet of choices, you just get a choose from here. Just, you got to trust me and let me do my job.
Speaker 2:And this mom with some of the things she wanted. The doctor said why don't work on Fridays and Saturdays? So that's not gonna work out like I just want to. You know, do shoot this time. For all these reasons and some of them were like I don't work on Friday, saturday, which wasn't jiving super well this woman who had put so much time preparation, thought an Intention into how she wanted her birth to be, so at 38 weeks she switched.
Speaker 2:She did it, made a couple of calls and it wasn't. The first place she tried to go was not available and I've seen lots of people do this over the years make late switches. Sometimes the further you get, the closer you get you're realizing like this is not a good match and her Doctor actually kind of fired her, which was nice because it wasn't a good match. She said you know, I think you'd be better off in the care of a midwife kind of what you want matches better with what midwives do. So she looked around a little and it was very fortunate to find a midwifery practice that would. You know they're big enough to be able to take her at that after 38 weeks, switched care, switch hospital to a hospital with that I knew had a very different culture about it and would be much more in alignment with the things that were important to her and Would support her desires for her, the type of labor and childbirth that she wanted.
Speaker 2:So she had her baby at this hospital things, you know, labor was normal, long, normal, just, and it was fine and she felt very supported. We did have, I will say, some nurses were Really awesome to support other ones kicked against it a little bit and so she had to work a little bit differently. We find that all the time right and that's part of our job as doulas is to Bring those. You know where we have that gap in what a nurse is saying, doing with the client, wants kind of bring that together and, you know, keep an amicable birth team and her birth team ended up being great. But we had a little more work to do with some of the the hospital stuff and in the end had a really great experience and getting cared for by that group of midwives was much more in alignment With what her plans were and she found that out, kind of discovered that at 38 weeks, which could be really common, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, as you get closer to things to start to realize, like wait a minute, I've seen that with a lot of V back clients they might be supported in the early parts of their pregnancy and as we get towards the end of their pregnancy their provider might change their tune a little bit and their support kind of Slacks off and how supportive they'll be of a V back as we get closer, with good reason, right, like with good reason. So here are like I'm gonna go through four little steps on how to exercise your right to make choices. A lot of times as we work with clients, you would not believe how many people Say oh, I had no idea that I could ask for that, I didn't know that was an option, I didn't know I could request that. So it's important to be able to know how your choices and your autonomy Play into your experience, because they are very important to it, because they are very important to it. So the first one is become informed, educate yourself.
Speaker 2:This can be done in lots of different ways. You could take a class Hospital classes are great you could take a private childbirth class. You could read books, you could follow an app and you're gonna find in all of these realms there's a variety of almost polarizing or opposite kind of philosophies and viewpoints. So you'll find for yourself. Your like self meter will kind of like be gravitating towards as you learn and educate yourself, gravitating towards what might be most in alignment with your values. Some people get scared to learn stuff, like I don't want to know all this stuff, I just want it to be taken care of me, for me, which they will take care of it for you if you want to give that to them. But talk to people, talk to friends, talk to family, realizing and keeping in mind their experience won't be your experience, their values may not be your values, but that may help you as you sort through your own self what's important to you, like all right, this, you know I'm more in alignment with this or with that. This sounds great to me. That doesn't. I want this. I don't want that. But prepare yourself, become informed and have your partner become informed, if they're hopefully they're interested in that as well.
Speaker 2:And then number two ask questions. Ask lots of questions and ask them until you feel like you have a comfortable understanding about something. We find that hospital visit well sorry, clinic visits with providers are short. We have a very short amount of time. We might have more time with the medical assistant or the nurse who's checking us in, and likely they don't. They're not in labor and delivery rooms. So if you have a question about labor and delivery as you're talking about your birth preferences or trying to understand anything from a test you're being given to why they check Fundal Hyatt or why you have to pee in a cup, whatever that is ask the questions so that you understand, and write questions down. A lot of times you know we're in that setting, we're in the clinic, we're maybe we're getting towards the end and we're only half dressed. Our provider might be lay and a lot of times like okay, any questions, and your brain kind of like poof, it's gone, it's empty. So write the questions down throughout that time between visits, like huh, I wonder about this or I heard about as I was visiting with my friend or my sister, I heard about this, I wanna ask my provider about this component, that component. So ask the questions, ask lots of questions until you feel like you have the answers that you're comfortable with, well, that your understanding is comfortable. And then, during labor too, ask questions like why are we doing this? What's the benefit of that? Are there any risks to this?
Speaker 2:Like, whatever you're generally with a nurse, we don't. You know if you're in a hospital setting, you don't see your doctor a whole lot. You know you've met with them or their partners throughout your pregnancy, but a lot of times you're with a nurse. So ask questions, become great friends with your nurse, create that friendly environment, that atmosphere of cooperation, and ask your nurse questions If you're at a birth center or a home birth, you do have complete access to your provider and they are there with you and there's gonna be support there. Those visits throughout the pregnancy with midwives at birth centers and home births are gonna be much longer and they take the time to build a rapport, to create a relationship of trust with you. And that's the beauty of doing, one of the beauties of working in an out of hospital setting. You may feel much more connected to your team and they build that preparation and education into their care practices, whereas a lot of times you know most people are having babies in hospitals, they have three minutes with their doctor. So educate yourself, ask the questions, ask them to your provider, ask other people like find all the avenues that you can go down to understand why and what's going on.
Speaker 2:Third point is to create a voice for yourself as you learn things, as you educate yourself, as you understand or come to understand the whys and what's coming up. Say, an induction's coming up. Why am I being induced? How am I being induced? When am I being induced? What are the methods Like? Ask those questions and then create a voice for yourself. This can be done by a variety of methods. A partner, a support person can help be part of that voice. As they learn right along with you, hopefully they'll be supportive of what's important to you and come to an understanding so that they can support you and help be part of that voice. You can work with a doula. As you work with a doula, they're going to be able to guide and help you through that and help be your voice.
Speaker 2:Create a birth plan or a birth wish list, birth preferences, what your birth vibes are going to be. Create a birth plan and that will help you as you think and learn about it. Kind of spend some time intentionally thinking what you want, what's important to you. I want you to realize you have choices, you have a lot of choices and your voice is very important to your experience. So create that voice and at a birth plan, sometimes that's a great tool of communication because you might be too busy laboring to actually use your own voice literally in the situation. But your birth plan can be part of that voice.
Speaker 2:Have an advocate. Maybe that is your birth plan, maybe that's you. Some folks are really good at advocating for themselves, others aren't and they need another advocate, whether that's a partner, a mom, a sister, to ask the questions. Duelas, that's our specialty is being advocates. I call us diplomatic watch dogs, but have an advocate, have a plan A and a plan B, like, all right, if things are going perfectly well, which they hardly ever do. Here's our plan A is that we're going to hand over our birth plan and that'll do all the communicating for us. Plan B is my partner's going to have to speak up, or I'm going to have to speak up, or if you have a working with a doula or some other labor support, that that person can help you as well. So don't just roll over in this. Don't just roll over and accept whatever's coming your way. Understand what's coming your way and why.
Speaker 2:And then the fourth point is teamwork. On the day of create like, bring your team together. Your team is going to consist of you, of course, whatever support people you have chosen, and hopefully they've learned with you and prepared with you. Your team will consist of a nurse who's assigned to care for you. Care for your nurse too. Bring that nurse onto your team, call her by name, ask her questions. She's a person too. She can become an advocate for you as well.
Speaker 2:So create that team and if it's your provider who you've been seeing for all these months or maybe you see a group of them hopefully you've met the person that's going to come in. This person, you know the person to deliver your baby. You don't see till the very end a lot of times, but they're going to be a big part of your team as well, and if they're not in the room very much, they're very well aware of what's going on in the room. So ask the questions. If somebody comes in to draw your labs, what do you draw in for? What do you test for? But just kind of make sure that you have an understanding of the things that are going on throughout your birth process, because choice is so very important and the more autonomy people have and the more involved they are in their own experience, the more positive the experience will be.
Speaker 2:So seek that support, prepare yourself, ask the questions, create a voice and assemble your team in the most positive ways on the day that you are having a baby. So thank you again. I'll close up Thanks for being here with Angie Rozier with the Ordinary Dolo Podcast hosted by Birth Learning. Hope you go out and do something that inspires you today, do something that brings you joy and helps somebody else out along the way. Thanks for being here. See you again next time.