From Side Hustle to Success Story
In the small food business world, success is an art in itself. Seeing the need for quality commercial kitchen space, Cindi Thompson created Crafted Kitchen to support culinary entrepreneurs and their business goals. Crafted Kitchen is more than just a place for them to work; it's a community where they can grow, learn, and thrive alongside other creators, artisans, and industry innovators.
Now, the visionary behind Crafted Kitchen is sitting down with the inspiring individuals who have been members, and other creatives who have used this space to achieve their culinary aspirations. From personal stories and practical advice to food for thought and secret ingredients to success, every episode is sure to ignite your entrepreneurial spirit. Prepare for Greatness™ with this food-forward podcast.
From Side Hustle to Success Story
Stephanie Chan - Mojave Mallows
What if a simple marshmallow could transform an entire entrepreneurial journey? Join us on Meet the Maker Crafted Kitchen's podcast as we sit down with Stephanie Chan, the visionary founder of Mojave Mallows, to explore how a pandemic visit to Joshua Tree sparked an unexpected adventure into artisanal confectionery. Listen as Stephanie opens up about the initial frustrations, the unwavering support from her sister, and the joy of seeing her handmade marshmallows grace the shelves of national park visitor centers. Dive into the personal motivations behind her venture, driven by a powerful need for validation and a relentless work ethic inherited from her immigrant father.
Stephanie also takes us behind the scenes of Mojave Mallows, revealing the intricate flavor dynamics that set her handcrafted treats apart from mass-produced alternatives. Discover how the bitterness of dark Italian cocoa harmonizes with the caramel-like sweetness of artisanal marshmallows, creating a unique taste experience. We'll explore the innovative ways these confections are being featured in Seattle's coffee shops and why Stephanie chose to collaborate with Crafted Kitchen, a women-led establishment, after a chaotic tour of a competing kitchen. Hear her recount this memorable experience and the factors that solidified her decision.
Finally, we delve into the broader significance of creating a supportive and inclusive business environment. Stephanie shares her journey of building a food business from the ground up, emphasizing the importance of community, accessibility, and the small details that make a big difference. Reflecting on her own childhood experiences of feeling left out, she underscores the value of inclusivity and perseverance. Learn how she navigates the multifaceted challenges of running a food business— from sales and social media to accounting and marketing— and find inspiration in her belief that success is about being the right person with the right product at the right time. This episode is a testament to the power of resilience, community, and the pursuit of one's passion.
Located in the Arts District of Downtown Los Angeles, Crafted Kitchen is a shared commercial kitchen space that provides small food business owners with the tools and resources they need to Prepare For Greatness™. Visit craftedkitchenla.com to learn more.
Hi and welcome to Meet the Maker Crafted Kitchen's podcast, where we talk to small food business founders, learn how they began, learn what makes them tick and what their dreams and aspirations are Today. I'm so happy to have Stephanie Chan here with me. She is the founder, sole owner, of Mojave Mallows, an artisanal marshmallow business that is based here in downtown Los Angeles. Why marshmallows?
Speaker 2:So marshmallows are just so. They're just sorely neglected. You know, when you, when you go to the store, you go to Whole Foods. Yes, you can buy fancy fair trade chocolate crackers, cookies, toothpaste, it's like literally everything, and then they still carry the trash marshmallows where the first ingredient is corn syrup and it was just like I was. So I was actually on Joshua Tree during this time, during the pandemic, and there's like a big wellness natural food community out there, a lot of climbers. Um, we have like a fireplace that always wanted to roast marshmallows there and I just couldn't bring myself to buy like the jet puff ones or the dandies well, yeah, or the like I, I will give dandies a pass because you know they, they're a little bit better.
Speaker 2:but um, but yeah, it was like I don't really want to buy this and have it in the house. But then I had my sister and I, who actually we both run the business together. Um, we were Girl Scouts so we grew up with like just a deep love of s'mores, camping campfires, roasting marshmallows, and so it was so sad to have this like campfire and then no marshmallows, so I would just buy. You know, I ended up just like buying a variety of different marshmallows, but it was just like. I was like I can't believe there's nothing better. So I decided I would try to make it. I looked up some recipes. It is extremely difficult. I don't know if anyone listening has ever tried to make marshmallows. It is not simple. I have tried.
Speaker 1:I have failed. I sit here before you admitting failure.
Speaker 2:I also have failed and especially that first couple months I was just like this is soupy or this is crystallizing. At one point it just turned to sand in the mixer. I was trying, I was experimenting with some stuff, with some vegan stuff, and it did not go well it just like rained in the kitchen everywhere.
Speaker 2:It was like a good, good learning experience. But, um, but then you know, after some trials and tribulations and working with my sister, who she has more of a background in baking, um, we figured out okay, this is gonna be the recipe that we use, and I got it down and I, from there, started experimenting with flavors, started giving them to guests who would stay at our house, started selling them into, like the neighboring um, there's like a bunch of airbnbs and like short-term rentals yeah.
Speaker 2:So then I had a bunch of kind of like subscribers. They would weekly, monthly, have orders that I would drop off and um, and then it started, you know, just from there, going into like the little stores, the little retail stores. Now they're in all of the national park visitor centers, which is awesome. It's so on brand for us, so it's like I love that. But let me back you up just a second.
Speaker 1:You're here with this four month old. You're out in the desert. You want to make s'mores because you were raised with this love of the outdoors and s'mores and campfires, et cetera. What made you have the light bulb moment of this could be a business.
Speaker 2:I think it was like a desperation, honestly, of like feeling like I really had to prove something. Like I was coming from this place of feeling low and I really wanted to like I needed some validation. I think I was looking for some external validation and I was looking for some something I could do where the I don't know, that I could just like feel like I was a valid, valuable, working member of society. You know what I mean. Like I just there was something just kind of deeply personal probably about that like trying to fight my way back up.
Speaker 2:There was something just kind of deeply personal probably about that, like trying to fight my way back up, and so it really put this fire of like I need to. Really, I don't know that I would have done it otherwise, honestly, because I don't have, like, an entrepreneurial background, I don't have entrepreneurial parents or you know, I don't.
Speaker 2:It's not, it's scary, honestly, like the fear of failure is terrifying, and so I had to have this other feeling that was overpowering that fear, to where I was, like I need to succeed and this is like burning desire that I need to like, really, you know, prove myself.
Speaker 1:I'm the sole owner here, founder and sole owner. So obviously don't have a partner. Is there something about working, having a partner, let alone your sister that sort of made you say, well, shit, I can't just walk away, I can't just blow this off. Yeah, there's another person here.
Speaker 2:Definitely, definitely. And my sister is like the best person to do this with because she's an older sister, she's bossy, she's really good with numbers, so we kind of complement each other well, um, and we both, you know our father's an immigrant from China and we both have grown up with kind of some of that direction about like you can't just give up and you have really strong work ethic and you and then also you know, a strong feel, fear of failure and kind of like a refusal of failure, which is good and bad. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:It could be bad.
Speaker 2:It could be bad because some things you're like, okay, that's not right. We need to pivot and kind of hold on to things a little bit too long.
Speaker 1:Tell me something about entrepreneurship that you didn't expect.
Speaker 2:Um, I think the the thing I didn't expect about entrepreneurship is the it's. It's a really it's. It's a roller coaster. So there's so like from the outside, you're like, oh my God, it's great, you make your own schedule, you do what you want. Um, it's, everything's the way you want it.
Speaker 2:And then the yes, so you have all the control. You have all the control, but then on the flip side, no one is there to like you know, be like that's a good idea, you should do more of that. Nah, maybe you don't do that. You know you don't have anyone to really blame when things go wrong. You don't have anyone to help guide you other than I mean. Obviously there's some mentorship that's important for any entrepreneur but it's just like you have to trust yourself to a degree. That, for me, was uncomfortable in the beginning because I just didn't. I didn't trust myself and I was questioning everything constantly and I was like very depressed for a while because I felt like so uncertain about these things that I was doing and I it was like business was so new that I would get, you know, I would do these little pop-ups and I'd get like validation on like the product but then I'd be like but is it a?
Speaker 2:business, like how do I make this into something where I can pay myself, and it felt like so daunting that all of that was on me to figure out. You know, and I think once you do it, once you're probably the next time like, okay, these are the things that I've learned, and but like, when you don't have that experience, it's like there it's so much. If you don't really think about how many different layers there are to entrepreneurship, I guess is what I would say there are I think you said it earlier about the loneliness oh my god yeah, you are correct.
Speaker 1:First of all. You're correct about the loneliness. You're also correct about when people say they say it to me, they've said to me forever you're so lucky, you work for yourself, you can take vacation whenever you want and and I think, bitch, you've got no idea what this feels like. I know If that was actually true and it is the furthest thing from the truth.
Speaker 1:It's so different and I get that. On the surface it feels like you work for yourself, you make the rules, you do what you want, when you want, how you want and why you want. But the fact is you have customers, you have obligations, and the obligations are financial, they're personal, they're with your vendors. You have so many obligations that are sometimes competing with one another that the of a vacation is. It's like if I said to you and I am princess diana, you're like, where do you get off taking a?
Speaker 1:day for yourself where do you get off? You could be building this business.
Speaker 2:That's what. That's the inside voice. Right, that's the inside voice. What are all these things you could be doing? And instead you're gonna like go, you know, on vacation, like, and then, and then you go on vacation and then you're like all these things that I could be doing right now and then it affects your like enjoyment of the it it does, because I think one of the things about successful um entrepreneurs is that you know, not to the ultimate extreme, but more often than not you're thinking is this the best use of my time, right, is this the best use?
Speaker 1:and if the answer is not fuck, yes, then it's fuck no, yeah, there's nothing in between. I don't think no, no, I know it's. There's nothing in between. I don't think.
Speaker 2:No, no, I know it's. If there's so much more, like every hour of the day is accounted for, right, and if it's not, then I feel like restless, like I'm just like, okay, there's gotta be something you need to be doing. Yes, yes, I have. I keep running lists of like these are the things I need to do.
Speaker 1:Yes, I could show you my list. It'd be embarrassing to me. But let's suppose that someone comes up to you and says Stephanie, I'm, I've watched you, I love your product. I'm thinking about starting a X business a cookie business?
Speaker 2:I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1:What advice would you give a young woman thinking about entering food entrepreneurship?
Speaker 2:I would like go do it. It's going to be so fun, you're going to have the best time, and it's so creative. You can experiment with all these different things. You can turn it more social. So, like you were saying earlier, like there is loneliness as a part of starting any new project, but I think in the beginning too, there's opportunity, when it's not deep in the middle of COVID, um, to share the thing that you're creating, whatever, whatever the art form is, including like baking, creating you know, different cookies, um, yeah, because I think that we need more of that. I think we we need to support new entrepreneurs, women, young people, especially marginalized folks, um, and then, and then I and then I. So I think it'd be like first encouragement and like excitement and like what is it you're gonna make? And like, like you know, kind of get excited together. And then it's also like practical, like you're not gonna make money in the beginning.
Speaker 2:So you're gonna have to figure out how you're gonna afford to do that realistically, like you might. You will likely need to have another job, keep another job for a while or like at least part-time. How are you gonna like subsidize the business as you grow it, because you're not going to be like profitable the first couple years probably?
Speaker 1:most likely most likely, unless you're like oh no I went to har, went to Harvard.
Speaker 2:I have a reward and I have investors and I'm just like okay, that's a different story.
Speaker 1:Investors are good. Also, I'm not talking to those people. They're not reaching out to me. No, they're not. They have deals with Mark Cuban. You know what? Because they went on Shark Tank right.
Speaker 2:Which, hey, I wouldn't be opposed to, but it hasn't happened. For us.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be opposed to that for you All.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm going to dig into this now Yay, so Cindy's opening the bag of marshmallows. She's yeah, I know. Can I interest you in a marshmallow? Yes, here, thank you, guess first.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Okay, all right. So one thing that I noticed right off the bat, yeah, is that they are not uniformly shaped.
Speaker 2:that's true yeah, and that's a part of being hand cut.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that that's that's?
Speaker 2:uh, it's a mark of a handmade marshmallow. If you get a uniform marshmallow that's like especially the cylindrical ones, that was extruded in a factory.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so this is a. This is vanilla bean that is dusted in a very dark bitter cocoa, italian cocoa, all right, here we go, squish, squishy. So the first thing that happens for me is the bitterness of the cocoa on your lips and tongue is drying, and then it's almost like it's prepping for the squish. I don't want to say it's palette cleansing, because it's not. It's kind of the opposite. It's placing down a base.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, then the squish comes into it's like setting a little foundation, uh-huh, yeah, and then you have that bitterness immediately cut with this like a sweet, and so we use dates, or that's a big thing that sets us apart is we use dates and agave and date syrup, um gives it that kind of caramel flavor. So you don't even need to roast our marshmallows, they already have like a bit of that caramel vibe to them, um, which is why these ones are so fun to snack, because you know you can just like munch on them and get a little bit of a little bit of a caramel vibe too.
Speaker 1:So if I was eating no product placements here, but if I was eating a Jet Puffed, maybe I could eat one, because they're so cloyingly sweet. Yes, what I can say about this is that it's not that sweet.
Speaker 2:No, you know why is corn syrup is so sweet? When they use it was like their first ingredient is corn syrup and it's it's like sweeter than sugar, right, and so it has. It really gives marshmallows a bad name. You know, people will look at me and I'm like wait, you have like all two in stores and they'll be like there's organic marshmallows. Isn't that an oxymoron? And I'm just like man marshmallows, don't they have such a bad rap. Everyone's like like you'll eat other gummies. You know, it's like marshmallows don't have to be the way you think they are. You know, and I'll give them samples and be like well, I didn't even. I didn't even know, I had no idea. So it's a lot of like kind of the miseducation about what a marshmallow can be out there that could be, that could be your, your podcast miseducation and re-education of the marshmallow yes, yes, I love it.
Speaker 1:Uh, this I yes, I've had it before, yes, I've loved it before. The delightfulness of this in that it's so obviously handcrafted. B it's not too sweet. C the flavor profile, the cocoa, the bitterness and dryness of the cocoa. Juxtapose, juxtapose juxtapose.
Speaker 2:I like that better.
Speaker 1:Juxtapose against the sweet squishiness is I don't know how to say this it's like it's interesting to the palate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's unusual. It's like a pairing of two opposite flavors.
Speaker 1:There's an unexpectedness about it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's why hot chocolate is so good, because you have like the dark chocolate I mean. Well, it depends on the type, right, but a really good hot chocolate is like mind-blowingly good, like our marshmallows right now are in all of these coffee shops in Seattle and they're doing an incredible campfire mocha. So they're doing like a latte mocha, oh a mocha, and then they're adding our marshmallow on top and toasting it. Yes, so it has like that smell of like a roasting marshmallow and it's like the hot, it's like the chocolate. Anyway, it's just like clearly is an established bond between flavors that works when you can get it right.
Speaker 1:What made you choose Crafted Kitchen? There are a lot of kitchens out there, it's true.
Speaker 2:Crafted Kitchen was great because it is women run. And I told you, actually I had a really weird tour. I was considering this other one in North I won't name it, but it's like Van Nuys, like North area and I went on a tour of that one. I was looking at a couple of different ones and during the tour One of the tenants started like cussing out the guy who was giving me a tour, and then the guy who was giving me a tour started like yelling at him and they were like having a yell off and I was just standing there.
Speaker 2:And then a woman who was like cleaning, she like was like oh, I'll finish the tour, like don't worry about them, and I was just like what is this place? This is crazy. And it turns out like a fridge had been broken for like three days and this guy lost, like you know, whatever $10,000 worth of pet food. That's what he claimed. But it was just like. I was like this is not. It just seems so insane, like the fact that he would yell back at the guy like that, like while he's doing a tour.
Speaker 2:I was like who does this? So anyways, anyways, a lot of red flags and um, and then I just loved. I loved the vibe here, but it was. It's pretty great. It's so great. I love this place. There's like such a strong community here, you know, and I was coming from like not a kitchen environment so I wasn't right used to like this like how we do family lunches, like that's such a sweet thing and, yeah, it's great when I first decided to do this, I looked at a lot of properties, a lot of properties.
Speaker 1:uh, and there were challenges with you know, I had not previously leased commercial real estate, so no one wanted to show me property. And then, because of the investment in the infrastructure, I needed a long, long lease and no one wanted to do that and no one understood what I was doing because no one had done something like this before Right right.
Speaker 1:So, because I looked at so much real estate and I had some must-haves, you know, I couldn't be, I was never going to be on the west side, because there's only one way in and one way out. You know, I wanted people to be able to access us from 360 degrees, right? So, and there are some other things Anyway, but I didn't know what the property was going to look like. I didn't know what aromas would emanate from the kitchen. I didn't know how loud or not loud it would be. I didn't know anything except one thing, and the one thing that I knew was how it would feel when you walked through the doors. I think I nailed that one.
Speaker 2:You definitely did. It is like very pleasant to walk in these doors every. Every time I come in there's plants that are alive. You know, sometimes it's always familiar faces. It's always something to try on the counter. It's like you've nailed it for sure.
Speaker 1:It's important to me that people feel welcome and included, regardless of because I, you know, grew up feeling very ostracized. You know, I skipped a year in school, so I was younger than everybody else. I was a little kid to begin with, and now I'm younger than everybody else, um, so I looked it right. Um I you know, when you're six you're not at the emotional maturity level of a seven-year-old so there are all these things kind of working against me.
Speaker 1:I obviously I have had very large eyes, I still had large teeth, my elbows and my knees were gigantic, they looked like grapefruits or something, and I never liked that feeling. I never liked feeling other than and I don't have children. I think, though, that, in my mind, a good parent and this will resonate with you a good parent is someone who recognizes what they didn't have as a kid and they make sure that their child does have it, which is what you're doing with your daughter. When I wanted to be a food business, there was no place to do it legit. I knew that. First of all, I knew I would fail, but straight up, but I also knew that you know, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I knew what I didn't know, and I didn't know how much more I didn't know, and a friend of mine that I had previously worked for was living up in Portland and she had started a confection business, and I started by saying so how many units of this do you have to sell to cover your? I don't remember what the number was, it really doesn't matter, it's totally irrelevant. All that matters is that I said fucking hell, that's not only this month, that's every month. And then you have to do the social media, which was minor at that point, but you have to do the accounting and the legal and the marketing and the sourcing and the and the and the and and and yeah, and your sales need to be progressively, you know, improving and increasing, and your margins do it all these things.
Speaker 1:And I just knew that I would never I if I, if I made it a month, and even I had a product I wanted to sell, but if I even made it a month, it was going to be a big deal because I knew that I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:And at that moment I realized I was on the wrong side of the coin. So I went to visit her in Portland and we went to the kitchen that she was working out of. We're getting out of the car and there's all these people. They had stuff that we couldn't possibly have. They had a glass garage roll-up door that was partially open, so people were interacting with one another and there was a whole lot of you know, I'm not quite sure about this. Does this need more salt?
Speaker 1:Or hey, how was your event last week, all these different things. And I said to myself, I have to have this, I have to have it. And here we are yeah, I have to have this, I have to have it.
Speaker 2:And here we are. Yeah, you're smart Like, yeah, the real estate, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's a whole other thing. Yeah, that, that the only impact that had, was okay. So what can we do here? Can we have food trucks here? Yes, no. Can we do this here?
Speaker 1:Yes, no Can we have events here, yes, no, that's the only thing that the real estate mattered about. What mattered was how I wanted you to feel, not only when you walked in here the first time, but every single time you walked in the door, that you felt like these people welcome me, these people encourage me, these people want the best for me. Period, no ifs, ands or buts about it. If, if anything else, that's what I'm most proud of this is why we need more women running businesses.
Speaker 2:That's because there's so much care taken into. Even like the bathrooms are spotless, everybody going there. It's just like the little things that you know and there's a trash can in there. It's like little things where you're, just like these things matter you.
Speaker 1:You know, Stephanie, I don't really believe in luck.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you know that about me?
Speaker 1:I don't. I believe that it's the right product, it's the right time and you're the right person. That's what I really think.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I am trying to keep that in mind as I go onward this week and, yeah, Head down to Anaheim. Thank you again. Thank you for having me. This is fun Again so wonderful.