Dr. Moeser: School Boards

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Transcript

Bryan R Wright: 0:01

Welcome to Educational Relevance, A platform for experienced educators to share proven successful strategies My name is Brian Wright. I'm alongside mark Macbeth. We have a guest in our building, Dr. Elliot Moser. Dr. Mosser is an excellent administrator who'd been a leader of many school districts, a superintendent and principal. He has been responsible for desegregating schools in Duluth, Minnesota. He has been responsible for turning schools good to great, but he is also been responsible for programs K to 12 as far as school districts and turning those schools who had struggling programs into highly successful programs. We are honored to have Dr. Moer join us today.

Mark McBeth: 0:45

Thanks Brian. So, I think it's a, it's a fascinating conversation about managing, facilitating, and giving direction to a school board as a superintendent when they're kind of your boss and yet you're trying to facilitate their direction. And so I wanted to go a little bit more into that depth. I know that you talked to us before about surrounding yourself with good people. A school boards are elected, and so you just have what comes in. How do you approach that when you first come in as a new superintendent? How do you approach that school board to kind of understand who they are and what their agenda is?

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 1:29

Well, thank you Mark. Let me start off by identifying that school boards can come in different sizes and shapes. a superintendent has to stay out of the politics of school board elections, and I'll give you an example In a community where I received an appointment as superintendent, there had been a superintendent for, in this community for 20 years. He had he was well ingrained in that community and he, he felt a little too comfortable and he became involved in endorsing campaigning for school board members. It was a competitive school board, race. School board didn't like that and they dismissed him

Track 1: 2:23

Mm-Hmm.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 2:24

and hired me. And it was a lesson for me. And when I taught administration courses at the college level, I emphasize to my students. That you can't always pick who's gonna be a school board member, nor should you get involved in that election because if candidates that he campaigned for, lost. the candidates he was opposed to won and they assumed leadership in that school district. How do you get to board members? Do things both informally, informally, there's a informal power structure and a formal power structure within a school district. The superintendent needs to know. you need to communicate with all the board members evenly. You don't show favoritism to somebody who may think the way you do. You have to be very careful on that, you do need to communicate with your board members. Keep them up to date. No surprises. I, I did not mind a nine member school board because I could lose a couple board members. I could have two board members who hated me, who hated me. I'd still have seven that were on my side. And it was okay in a community where you have a five member board and you lose two, eh, it's a little different. you're on the edge on that. And you need to work on developing trust and communicating with all your board members. on an even basis. I always worked through the school board president and developed good relationships with my school board presidents and that I found that to be a critical I've had school board members die. While they were in office and we'd have to re appoint a new school board member. And we've, I've gone through that. I've gone through a time where a school board where I was the interim superintendent. had a school board member who quit, and the board decided not to appoint somebody. You, you don't always have to appoint somebody when someone dies or quits as a school board member. You have as a superintendent, you have to remember that the school board member is elected and they're gonna be there. You as superintendent are the one who can go and that doesn't mean that you're not strong. I will argue that you're in a better position from an employment position. If you're a strong superintendent, then if you show weakness and are not providing leadership to that school board setting goals setting a mission trying to get everybody on board is critical in today's marketplace. With school boards though, mark. It's getting more difficult'cause people are being elected to school boards for personal reasons or political reasons more than I've seen in the past. And I'm seeing more superintendents leaving positions if not leaving the occupation. Because of the political nature of education in the year 2024.

Mark McBeth: 6:08

Given your experience how do you facilitate. Board members conversations back to the real purpose, which is educating each kid in that school. How, how do you get them to have that dialogue? When they want to have another personal agenda and that's their number one thing.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 6:32

I always felt. I had to get board members to respect each other that the other board members were not the enemy. That there weren't two sides or three sides. And sometimes the enemy is not the superintendent, another board member. And that's where I, mentioned a retreat. I've always felt that getting board members together talking over things in being candid is a good practice and understanding, the needs of somebody else on that board. you don't necessarily have to get people to give up their, their belief system. Whether it's personal, religious or political you know, I don't know that I ever engaged in saying to a board member, you're wrong in wanting. To improve English test scores or most recently in my last interim superintendency I had two school board members that were extremely interested in equity, diversity, equity, inclusion. and I happened to think that they were right in, that school district, three of the other board members may not have been as committed to those topics. so I had to persuade people to to collaborate. In that, in that district, I spent a lot of time on this. There had been a, a harsh separation the old superintendent and me. the old superintendent in that district was a friend of mine, and I still consider him a friend, but there had been a schism between the board and that superintendent. There were some members of the board who wanted to take legal action against that outgoing superintendent. They wanted to take punitive action. They were angry, I spent a great deal of time to convince, that. Their job as a school board to move the district forward to help children. To give teachers the tools to teach. wasn't going backwards and dealing with revenge and getting even with that outgoing superintendent, and we spent a lot of time talking about that because some of the board members hurt. And they felt that they had been made to look bad in certain circumstances, and they wanted to get even. And I indicated to them that that's not why I became the interim superintendent. I lived in that community and it was a K eight school district at kindergarten through grade eight, and I knew the high school in that community. because I had been superintendent of that high school for 17 years I said, I can help move you, in the right direction so your kids are successful. And we got there and we did some good things in,

Track 1: 9:48

Yeah,

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 9:48

of

Mark McBeth: 9:48

all the time with teachers and school administrators. they were looking at assessment scores, things like that, right? To determine whether you're getting kids to learn. What role did that play in school boards?

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 10:02

Well, in some districts, it plays a bigger role than in others. in the high school where I was superintendent and principal, data was big time. They, wanted that school to be ranked at the top in the state of Wisconsin. but more importantly, They wanted a CT scores, SAT scores, PSAT scores that would get the kids into college and into the best colleges. In another district where I was an interim for seven years, data helped me convince the school board that they had an extremely good school district and they didn't believe it. And, that they had great teachers. They had a community where education was important, but they had had difficulty. They had four superintendents in five years, and there was a, feeling of negativity in the school district, and the board was not feeling good about the school district. So I was able to use data show the. That were moving forward. Now, what I did there to your question mark, was I knew I had to show the board data. In that case, I hired an administrator to just deal with data and to do testing and interpret data. to teach teachers how to give tests to teach the children how to take tests. It isn't just in gathering data. It isn't just test scores that influence how well kids do. in testing, in assessment taking tests is a skill in itself. Giving tests is a skill in itself. Brian Wright knows very well the individual that I hired, he had been an administrator for me

olivia_6_01-26-2024_101833: 12:01

Mm-Hmm.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 12:01

Nicolet in my 17 years as superintendent. And I brought him out to this school district and we ended up having the, the best test scores in the state of Wisconsin. And, the environment in that school district changed overnight the use of data. And using data properly. I data can sometimes be used in the wrong way, meaning public relations in newspapers, in dismissing superintendents or principals. We use the data to strengthen our teaching and learning. And, that those are two different things. Right now I am, the executive director of an organization called closing the Achievement Gap Consortium. It is geared towards closing the achievement gap in southeastern Wisconsin concerning students of color and, white students. Data is extremely important. we've hired a company that, does the data for us so we know where we're weak. We, recently did a math institute we found that fractions were the weak spot. Or a weak spot in southeastern Wisconsin. Learning. And the data is what us there. And we didn't really know fractions were that critical of an area of learning in our, schools, in, southeastern Wisconsin. we know because we use data.

Track 1: 13:39

Very good.

Bryan R Wright: 13:40

You're talking about data and how data can be used for successes, can also be used for failures. how do you walk that fine line? between doing what's best for students while trying to serve the egos of some of the school board members that's there.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 14:01

Well you, you can't deny, I don't care if it's in Kansas or if it's in Colorado or Wisconsin. Assessment is part of educational scene

Bryan R Wright: 14:17

Mm-Hmm.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 14:18

and it's not going to be removed. It's part of the accountability movement. That is happening at, at the school board level. and it's going to be there. the test scores, at least in Wisconsin, they're released. They're, public. And I never would try to find excuses on why there were test scores at a certain level. I would always try to put things in the positive vein of how we were using the test scores to improve learning among the students. I hired our testing administrator to help teachers. and administrators how to use data. How can you use the, the test results? In the state of Wisconsin, we, we got into the topic of when, testing took place and, test scores are released so that teachers can use them. It didn't do any good to get the test scores at a certain time of the year. And you weren't able to use them with your teachers. and the kids. Data has to be used with teachers and not just the kids. it should be part of a professional development program. At least I found that using data and using assessment is part of professional development. And I school board members want to be able to put in the newspaper, their local communication, their newsletters, on the website the test results. You, probably can't fight that, it's there'cause it makes it sound like you have something to hide

Bryan R Wright: 16:04

Mm-Hmm.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 16:05

you need to be transparent. And when you're transparent as an administrative leader, you're taking something away from those critics who want to attack the schools whether it's a public school or a private school. be candid be transparent,

Bryan R Wright: 16:23

Okay.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 16:23

but then, but that data improve instruction.

Bryan R Wright: 16:26

Alright, thank you boss. I'm gonna say this to you. Mark, I gives you one last question and

Mark McBeth: 16:32

Well

Bryan R Wright: 16:32

we really appreciate Doc

Mark McBeth: 16:34

yeah, we'll kind of summarize some of the key points We, we got the idea that a superintendent you never want to get involved in the political parts of the election. The process, picking favoritism, treat e each board member individually, but as a team, The the other side was to help board members respect each other's stuff so that they're on the same side. So even though they might come in with their own agendas and et cetera, is really to get each other to respect each other, and then their roles in there. And never to give up on the, the overall goal of the students and maintaining that with the the board that this is the objective, this is why we're here. Even if they had their own. Own stuff going on. There was some acknowledgement that there's some real challenges in the school board today because of how people are coming in under a particular agenda. And that that leads a new challenge to superintendents. And it's kind of sad to hear that some superintendents are leaving the profession because of that. we talked a lot about data, which I thought was really valuable, how to use data not only for school boards to be able to look at their own goals and how, how they're moving forward. But to be very transparent with that, with teachers, students. Parents and, the school board, and then utilize it at all those different levels to move the organization forward. and the other thing is, hiring people that know data that can support how to collect that data, when to collect that data, how to use that data and, be able to pull all that stuff together. I thought that was really good. And I think when you rely on data, as we did as principles, when we have data we remove the perceptions, we remove our personal values and, and, and perceptions and just say the, facts are, and so now what do we want to do now?

Bryan R Wright: 18:30

Absolutely. tremendous points. Dr. Moja, I wanna make sure you get the last word on what we're talking about with school board. So lemme turn this back to you, sir.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 18:41

Well, thank you. Mark did a fantastic job of summarizing our conversation. my 38 years as a superintendent given me respect for school boards some of my best friends. Have come from the ranks of school board members. I know that may sound strange, but over the years I, have become personal friends with some of the board members. a superintendent needs to have that flexibility to respect a board members and to, respect the administrators and teachers who work for that superintendent. And, you need to facilitate, I'll use that word again. And I think that's Mark's favorite word. I like that. Use that word a lot. You facilitate that relationship. I, always felt that my staff would work that much harder for me or with me if I respect for my staff. And the same thing would apply for a board. You need to respect them and they will work with you as long as you are being respectful. And show respect their position. So thank you very much. It's, it's good talking with both of you.

Mark McBeth: 20:01

Thank you Brian, I hope we can reserve the right to interview him again because I think there's so much more there.

Bryan R Wright: 20:09

I'll tell you right now. I think that we can do that again. Right. I feel confident in that idea. Dr. Moser, thank you for everything, you said today, mark great talking with you again to everybody else. Thank you very much for this and have a good day. Bye-Bye.

Dr. Elliot Moeser: 20:23

Thank you.