Vetted Conversations
Vetted Conversations is a podcast created by We the Veterans & Military Families to help Americans - especially the veteran community - better understand their rights and responsibilities as citizens and how they can get involved to reinforce our constitutional republic and representative democracy. We are focused on bringing Americans together to help create a more perfect union. This podcast was formerly titled Vet our Democracy and was rebranded with the launch of Season 2 to reflect our expanded goals.
Vetted Conversations
Ep. 8: Administering free and fair elections, a conversation with Secretaries of State Jocelyn Benson (MI) and David Scanlan (NH)
Joining us today are The Honorable Jocelyn Benson from the Great State of Michigan, and The Honorable David Scanlan from the Great State of New Hampshire.
For more, check us out at www.wetheveterans.us and at https://linktr.ee/vettedconversations
On election day itself, we need about 20,000 election workers, 15 to 20,000 election workers. We now also are adding nine days of early voting here in Michigan, which is basically adding like nine election days prior to the last election day for the second Tuesday in November. So that will mean we need, I mean, there are obviously people who work multiple days, but we're anticipating anywhere from 25,000, I would say, I'm gonna estimate about 25,000 election workers. Notably, though, in 2020, we recruited 30,000 new election workers. We have an abundance of folks who want to serve in our state, and I think a lot of other states have done that as well. Certainly while challenges have emerged, be it the global pandemic in 2020 or the misinformation and attacks on election officials throughout the last several years, throughout it all individuals have been willing to step up and serve. And I think of no community greater than the veterans' community.
SPEAKER_04:Hello and welcome to Vet Our Democracy Podcast, created by us, the nonprofit, nonpartisan, pro-democracy group, We the Veterans and Military Families. In this series, we explore what it means to be a citizen, what veterans and military families' roles are in supporting and defending our constitution following military service, and how you can get more involved to help create a more perfect union. We're all in this democracy thing together, and it's important for all of us to know our rights and our responsibilities to each other. As citizens, we need to know how our government is supposed to work so we can engage patriotically and positively to help it bring about the best version of America. If you care about America, democracy, baseball, mom, and apple pie, then this is a podcast for you. We've started a new thing for our podcast. In our work to help strengthen American democracy, we run into thousands of people and hundreds of organizations who are all doing their part to make their bit of America better for everyone. So, to that end, we're going to start highlighting partner organizations and their leaders to bring them to your attention. There are many ways to serve our country after leaving the military, and there are many great groups across our country who can use your talents and drive. There's an old saying that if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. And when we challenge ourselves in 2022 to help America close 120,000 deficit and election poll volunteers, we banded together with like-minded people, formed Vet the Vote, which was our nationwide public awareness and election poll worker recruitment campaign to help ensure American elections are properly staffed and run. That year we built a coalition of more than 30 veteran and civic groups and asked veterans and their family members to serve again. You know what? More than 63,500 of you responded. And today we're spotlighting the newest member of the Vet the Vote Coalition, the Mission Continues. We're super excited about this. They have a great mission, as their name would imply, and a superb reputation in the veteran and military space. And joining us today from the Mission Continues is Marine Corps Combat Veteran and President of The Mission Continues, Mary Beth Bergaman. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Wonderful to be here with you both. Thanks so much for having us on and for everything you're doing every day to protect democracy.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. And thanks for joining us uh this morning on uh espresso fueled uh uh actually it's mid-morning already. Okay. Um but yeah, just before we went on, uh Mary Beth and Rick and I realized that we were both in Iraq together. You were at MWSS 372 while I was with 1st Marine Division. Um and we were just doing a 373.
SPEAKER_03:Glamorous Miramar, yes.
SPEAKER_04:I'm sorry, that's right, 373. Um yeah, they screwed up already. I need more caffeine. But anyway, uh we want to get to um your mission and your organization. So can you tell us like what does the mission continue to do?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Um, well, we're a national nonprofit, and we exist to give veterans an opportunity to serve again when they leave the military. So this time we're asking them to repurpose their leadership skills and their experience back home in under-resourced communities in their own backyards and find ways to once again serve with a mission and a purpose, and we're helping point them in the right direction and linking them up with community partners who can really use their support. Um, and they are thereby fulfilled and find that sense of purpose again that so many of us lose when we leave the military and find connection with other veterans and with communities, and it's a it's a win-win.
SPEAKER_04:Can you give us a few examples of things that that your organization does?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, sure. I can give you hundreds of examples. Um, you know, we're we're really excited about what we're doing in San Antonio this year. We're gearing up for what we call a mass deployment, which is our once annual opportunity for um to bring veterans in from across the country and deploy them against some local work that's been taking place there for a long time. So our our local platoon leader, Richard Diaz, who's a veteran himself and a volunteer, he's been stepping up and leading a service platoon in San Antonio for years now. And he brings together veterans and non-veterans on any given Saturday throughout the year and um connects with local nonprofit partners and uh, you know, puts puts everybody to work in a six or seven-hour timeframe and does incredible things over the course of the day. Um, so it's really amazing to see the work that he's been doing with his partners like Democracy Prep and so many of his, he's got urban gardens and urban farms that he works with in San Antonio. He works with the San Antonio Unified School District and so many others across the city. And so we're able now to build on that work this summer in June and deploy about 80 veterans to San Antonio to help give a real shot in the arm to the work that he and his platoon have been doing for years. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:So, I mean, it's it's very obvious what this community, your community of veterans, is doing for these other communities, San Antonio, but all across the country, as we we well know. How do you categorize what that work does for the veterans themselves and sort of the veteran the broader veteran community?
SPEAKER_03:Um, well, so I find that veterans so often miss the thing that they're missing when they leave the military. And so so many go looking for to fill a hole somehow. And it's work, it's it's having stable finances, it's all the things that we need to do when we leave the military. Um, but I meet so many veterans that tell me that what they didn't know was missing was feeling needed again. And so there's this gulf that is created when we leave the military because for so long we've been in this really mission-driven, purposeful work. And we leave the military, we transition out, and we find so many things, we find fulfillment in so many different ways with family, with work, with our home life, whatever it is. Um, but if you don't have that feeling that somebody needs you, that you're still on someone's front lines, that you're still on that wall, um, then there's really something that can very much feel like it's missing. It's just this black hole, and so many folks just misidentify it or can't identify it at all. Um, that's one of the greatest joys, is watching veterans discover organizations like The Mission Continues and the work that we do and tell us on the back end of their first service project or their first mass deployment, this is what I didn't know I was missing. This is the thing that I didn't know I needed. Um, and so we're we are filling a purpose gap. We're filling a connection gap. It's that ability to have that really comfortable banter with military veterans that you know that you might miss from the military, that that feeling like you're part of a tribe again, but also recognizing that that tribe extends beyond those veterans and now includes this incredible community of non-veterans and supporters and local communities that want to create this connection with you as well and want to tap into that leadership and experience that you bring home.
SPEAKER_04:That is so, so important. I mean, I remember Mary Beth, and you probably remember this too. Like when we came in the Marine Corps, General Krulak was always talking about like the three reasons we have a Marine Corps, right? To make Marines win battles and return quality citizens to their communities. And the Marine Corps doesn't make good on that last part of that promise, right? They get you out the door. But groups like yours are the ones who are really putting that into play every day in communities all across America. You know, and I think it's important because like the veteran community is shrinking. You know, we have like a little bit north of 17 million, I think, now last I checked, and by 2050, that's gonna go down to below 14 million while the American population grows to over 405 million. And so per capita, um, there are fewer and fewer of us. And I think you know, when people derive or decry that military-civilian gap and America doesn't understand us and all this other other stuff, you know, one thing I tell veterans is like you gotta take that first step towards them when you go back to your communities. Like if you're waiting for somebody to reach out to you, you're gonna be waiting a long time. So I think, you know, what a great, great way to meet other people where you intend to live and put your talents um out there in a positive direction that's gonna help the entire community. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, just and just stepping up. I mean, I think it's incredible to just to see people come back to life when they start volunteering. And again, it's with us, it's with other organizations. There's so many out there. Um, I love what we do for very particular reasons. It's it's not only it's it impactful on the veterans, but we're making a big impact in communities. Um, but again, you can find it in so many different places, but it's that feeling of like, hey, I'm needed. Somebody's asking me for my skills. Again, somebody needs me to help solve a problem. Somebody put something sticky in front of me and really needs me to get through this challenge. Um, I love it. These service projects are challenging. I mean, we even throw things in there like, hey, you may have to do more with less. You may have to get through this without the resources you need. We may not have a tool that you need, you may have a weather challenge in front of you. But that's when we find these veterans get most, you know, woken up, and that's when they get most excited because they're like, oh, wait a minute, a challenge? A hill I can climb? Yeah, I know how to do that. Yeah. Um, point me towards the hardest thing, and that's what I'm gonna go try to tackle. Super. I love that. That's what I love most about the veteran community.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you know, I I coach uh quite a few veterans every year. People will contact me and be like, hey, I'm I'm gonna be getting out of the military, you know. I feel like I'm jumping off a high dive. Like, what do I need to think about? And you know, like they've heard about like you need to figure out like where you're gonna live, how much you need to make, what do you want to do for an occupation? And you know, they come to me with various aspects of that equation figured out, but really what I tell them after that is like, okay, well, how are you gonna make meaning in your life after this? You're leaving an organization with more than 240 uh years of lineage where you know your you know your rank and status within the tribe, you know, like you have a you know, something happens on CNN and you're packing your cargo bag to ship out, like what's gonna put that fire in your belly again? And and I think you've uh landed on the secret. It's like serving other people in a meaningful way in your community.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Definitely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Finding finding the toughest challenge you can find and going after it for sure.
SPEAKER_04:I love it. Yeah, absolutely. What kind of support do you does the mission continues need from our community?
SPEAKER_03:Um, you know, I I really love the quote you used at the beginning. If you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together. Um, I know we don't do enough of that. I mean, even the mission continues, we don't do enough of that. This real true collaborative work. Um, but our space is getting smaller. It's going to. Um, not only do we have fewer veterans, as you said, but there's less money out there. There are fewer resources, and um, we're all competing for the same attention, the same dollars, the same, the same little slice of everything. And um, what we want is to be true collaborative, collaborative partners. We're all for partnership in any kind of way, whether it's transactional or not. We'll we'll partner. That's great. Um, but we're looking for real, real, true deep collaboration that, in fact, where you pull, you're like puzzle pieces working together and and finding ways to pull on each other's strengths. Um, so we're we're super open to that and looking for organizations that that just wanna be, want to draw from the strengths of the work that we do and believe that the strengths of the work that they do can can fit together in a really in a really positive way. Um, so that's one thing. And that's kind of that goes into sort of the mutual support category. Um but there's also just a lot. Look, we we fill a really important void in the military and veteran support space. Um, but it is one, it is just one void that we fill, and we're very disciplined, um, more now so than ever, because of everything I just talked about. We're very disciplined about staying, sticking to filling our void. Um, but our veterans come to us with a range of challenges, desires, wants, needs, anything. Um, and we we need partners that we can um confidently connect them with and refer them to so that they're getting all of what they need. And we we believe that this is a system and an ecosystem of support. And again, we're we're just one slice of it and good at what we do, the best at what we do, um, but all too happy to tell veterans about all the things that we don't do and all the folks that exist that that can help them in their next chapter if if what they need is not what we have, or they need something in addition to what we're we're able to give them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm I'm here and kind of focusing on your mission and keeping the main thing the main thing, yeah. Which is kind of a a nice segue into vet the vote. Ellen, do you want to take us down that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I love you you hit on you know the sort of the three key things that that we would we would say we're we're really uh in total alignment with, which is you know, partnership, collaboration across the veteran and military family space, um, but also something really cool that you said about you know just sort of showing up and doing the hard things. And so um, you know, America had this challenge of poll workers, we will have this challenge again, we will continue to have this need. Um, and we see this, this, you know, sort of coalition as a a way to answer that need using this incredible community. So can you just in your own words talk about you know why The Mission Continues um has has kind of you know joined this coalition and and what you know in this election year, um how you see us all working together to solve a problem for America?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um I a couple things. I mean, one, I think it's important for me to just talk personally about the fact that I'm one of the people that answered the call. Um when you all put out the call for poll workers and election officers. Um I am now an election officer here in Virginia. And I've only missed one election since I became an election officer, and I felt like I was missing out. I had a I had real FOMO on that day. Um it was too much with my just where we were with with the mission continues and our operational cycle. I just couldn't, I couldn't commit to the day far enough out. Um, but I hated missing it because when I worked that very first election, and I think that I was, I think I signed up um for the primary in the 2020 presidential election, if that sounds right to you guys, like timing-wise. So I think that's that was my first election that I worked, and then I worked the the general election that year. Um, and I was fascinated by the whole experience. I was drawn to it. I really did feel like I was on the wall that day. Like I felt like they needed me on that wall that day. And because it was something that I could see from who turned out for that, like it wasn't easy to get election officers. And I'm in a county that's pretty well resourced, so we don't have massive gaps where some other folks do. Um, but all the same, it wasn't simple to get people to sign up and do the training and be out there and be out there all day. And I was so eager to be there. And I knew as I met people um that were working that election with me, there were probably 50% of the people, at least 50% of the people at my polling station were veterans or military spouses.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, you could just see who was eager to answer the call. So that was one. Like personally, I absolutely loved the experience. And I felt like it was um like this ironclad like this is where this is where our bureaucracy um really does the job. Like our elections are incredibly secure, and I can say that because I've been a part of them. And so for me, I felt like I gained some credibility in being able to say, like, we I I can I can tell you exactly what the process is from start to finish on a day when you work at an election like this and how your vote gets counted. Um, and I love validating that for myself and being able to then be, you know, a trusted voice for others. Um, so that leads me to so why did the mission continue to join? I mean, part of that is like my experience does help to inform why we can say yes to things like this and partnerships. Um, and also I we have found that our our veterans want to be a part of initiatives like this. Um, again, when there is a critical gap in our country, veterans want to be called. They want to be asked to serve, they want to be asked to join. Um they care deeply about the outcomes for this country, they care deeply about um the our constitution and everything it takes to uphold that. Um, they do not care about politics, we find, generally speaking, as a as a rule, I would say. Um they don't care about politics and frankly don't want to be a part of it. And I think sometimes they need something that you guys are really good at. They need an education about where they can be most useful because we leave, we are in the military and even leave the military believing we should stay as far away from conversations about politics as we can. And that can lead us to staying far away from government, period. And serving in any capacity, whether that's in government service or even as an election officer. Like I'm not allowed to be at polls because it might make people think that I'm in tune with politics. I hear that all the time from veterans. Like, ah, apolitical, apolitical, I'm non-political, that I learned that from the military, I serve the commander-in-chief. Understood, and yet you're no longer in the military, and in fact, have a really important, trusted voice and in my view, an obligation to at least be informed. And I I care not at all how people vote. I care deeply whether they vote because I just think that it's so important to participate and for something that you fought so hard for um blood, sweat, tears, we lost friends. We lost friends so that we could have an ability to have these free and fair elections. We fought in countries and saw firsthand what it looks like when other countries do not have free and fair elections. It matters, but it takes all of us participating in that in order for it to work. And again, um I I applaud um a two-party system. I applaud everything it takes and all the conflict it takes. I think it's actually a really beautiful part of our democracy. Um, and and still I ask veterans just be a part of it. Just participate. And if working, if being a a poll worker, an election officer is something that helps give you confidence in the system, start there. Do that because it's needed. Um, and I do think it makes a huge difference for veterans and military families.
SPEAKER_04:We couldn't have said it better. I mean, it it does change you in a meaningful way to go and make democracy happen for Americans. I mean, I remember uh my wife and I, every time we volunteer and and uh and help run our polling station, I mean, we leave there feeling great, right? Because you know, you see so many members of the community, a lot of people that may agree with you, a lot of people that probably don't agree with you, but they're all coming in to exercise their fundamental right to vote and choose our elected officials. And and you know, it's just like that is a special thing that we should never take for granted. And as you mentioned, so many of our brothers and sisters have sacrificed over the years um going. All the way back to 1775 to guarantee that right. So Mary Beth, like where can people go to learn more about the Mission Continues and get involved?
SPEAKER_03:Well, we go to our website. That's the first stop, MissionContinues.org. And from there, that will get you to a get involved page where you can find out if there's a service platoon near you. And we have service platoons in 47 cities across the country, so I hope there's one near most of your listeners. And I would just highly encourage people to take the step and come to the next service project in your community. There's no barrier to entry. It's a come one, come all. We will find something for you to do that will help you feel incredibly purposeful, whether you come for a day or you stay with us for years. Whether you decide to join a leadership team as a military veteran or you want to come one time with your family and say you did a good thing for the day. It takes all of it takes all. And we're just really excited to continue to grow this movement of veteran-led service.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we are huge fans, and we couldn't be more excited to have the mission continues as one of our new coalition members for Vet the Vote 2024, which will be kicking off the same week of the Super Bowl, February 5th. So stay tuned. Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Thank you both.
SPEAKER_04:Don't go away. Next, we're going to talk to not one, but two Secretaries of State. Today's episode is about what your Secretary of State does in your state. Most of us, when we hear the title Secretary of State, think of foreign affairs, diplomatic summits, and treaty making. But did you know that almost every state in the Union has a state level Secretary of State? This is an elected or appointed official who plays a key role in supporting our electoral process and many other vital functions. Joining Ellen and me today is the 43rd Secretary of State for the Great State of Michigan, the Honorable Jocelyn Benson, and the 54th Secretary of State for the Great State of New Hampshire, the Honorable David Scanlon. We invited Secretary Benson on the show for many reasons. She's been one of our nation's leading advocates for increasing civics education in the United States. She's been made substantial improvements to the state of Michigan's electoral system, increasing security, transparency, and access, which we'll discuss later. And as a military spouse, she's one of us. You probably heard by now that Ellen is married to a naval officer, and I'm both a retired Marine Corps officer and married to a retired Marine Corps officer, which makes me a military spouse too. Secretary Benson's husband is a former Army paratrooper. And the best bit of biographical detail, she is a long distance runner who completed the Boston Marathon while eight months pregnant, which we think is awesome. You should get two medals for that. Our friend Secretary Scanlon was sworn in as New Hampshire Secretary of State on January 10th, 2022. He previously served as a Deputy Secretary of State under William Gardner from 2002 to 2022. And before assuming his role as Deputy Secretary of State for New Hampshire, he was a Republican member of the New Hampshire House of Representatives from 1984 to 2002, becoming a majority leader in his final term. As a native of New Jersey, Secretary Scanlon has a bachelor's degree in forestry from West Virginia University's School of Agricultural and Forestry. And after graduation, he moved to New Hampshire in 1978 to work as a licensed forester in the private sector, and he still maintains a license to practice forestry. He has considered the state his home ever since, and we must mention that Secretary Scanlon graciously co-hosted a vet the vote education event conveniently during peak foliage season just this fall. Okay, enough of the intros. Secretary Benson and Scanlon, welcome.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_04:Excellent. We'd like to start off with a real easy question. What was your motivation to serve in public office?
SPEAKER_01:Um I, you know, I started my career. Well, my parents were special education teachers, I should mention. And really it was from them I saw at an early age how important it was to make sure everyone has a seat at the table. And I started my career in Montgomery, Alabama, investigating hate groups and hate crimes throughout the country and really saw there firsthand how much had been sacrificed so that the one person, one vote principle in our constitution could be a reality. Uh, particularly spending time in Selma, Alabama, and seeing the uh the work that went into passing the Federal Voting Rights Act, I made up my mind then and there to do whatever I could wherever I was to just keep ensuring that that work continued. And at first I became an attorney, a voting rights attorney, and then uh and then ultimately the dean at Wayne State Law School in Detroit, and through all those pieces started to see the role of the Secretary of State, the chief election officer of the state of Michigan, as the most important role for an individual or anyone to serve uh in if you want to just wake up every day saying, How can I do more to make government work for everyone and make sure voting works for everyone? And I'm proud to be serving in this role at such a pivotal moment in our country's history.
SPEAKER_04:Fantastic. And that's something that certainly we believe in with We the Veterans of Military Families is making sure that every single qualified American gets can get to the polls and execute their fundamental right. Secretary Scanlon, same question to you. What made motivated you to serve in public office?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I graduated with a degree in forestry and took my first job in the state of New Hampshire. And I planned a career working in the woods. Uh, really had no interest in politics at the time, but as I worked in my new profession, uh there were some environmental issues uh that came before the state legislature, which ended up being very important to me. And I decided to attend a public hearing in Concord before a legislative committee and uh testified with some success. The issues that I was working on uh became uh law. And uh uh being engaged in that process, I caught the bug, and I started at the local level, uh serving on the local uh planning board, the local conservation commission, and then uh took a big leap to run for the state legislature and uh you know started at the bottom and worked my way up. And it's an amazing process, and I always felt that I wanted to be a part of it as long as there was something more that I could learn from it. And uh uh in the course of serving in the legislature, I had the opportunity to meet the former Secretary of State Bill Gardner, who's an amazing person, and we connected uh very quickly, and uh so uh uh at one point when his deputy was retiring, he asked if I would come on board in the Secretary of State's office and I took a crash course in elections and uh and the rest is history.
SPEAKER_04:If I read correctly, that was kind of like a D-side to R side handoff, too, um, between you and your your predecessor. So he yeah he, a Democrat, tapped you, a Republican, to replace him essentially.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's a great thing about New Hampshire. First of all, the Secretary of State in New Hampshire is one of three states where the legislature elects the Secretary of State. And Bill Gardner was a master at serving as secretary despite the change in uh party power uh uh in the legislature. And he ran the office in a nonpartisan way and felt that it was important that he have a Republican as his deputy just to have that partisan balance in the office. And that's something that I've carried through, making sure that the team that we have is balanced between the political parties. And hopefully I'll be as successful as he was uh in that regard.
SPEAKER_04:Certainly.
SPEAKER_02:Well, so so we love we love during this podcast to uh to also do some some civics education in in the in the form of uh a podcast. You know, military family members and veterans are sort of given credit for knowing more about civics than the rest of the population, but we we have basically the same education as everybody else. So um so a couple a couple of just first of all, one very interesting civics data point is Secretary Scanlon, you've referenced the New Hampshire legislature a number of times. And um, from our research, the secret the state legislature of the Granite State is the fourth largest body, uh legislative body in the world, uh democratic legislative body in the world, is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh I know that it is, I believe it's the third largest parliamentary body in the English speaking world, uh, behind the United States Congress and the British Parliament.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and then we we we think that um India's uh Parliament is is snuck in there, potentially above it in size. Yeah, but but yeah, the great great point. But still big, still really big for for New Hampshire, punching above its weight for sure. Um so okay, question to both of you, uh whoever wants to jump in first. But uh Civics Trivia question: how many secretaries of state are there in America?
SPEAKER_01:40 48, 47 or 48, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I I would go with uh Secretary Benson's answer. I know that there's a couple of lieutenant governors that serve uh as secretary, but I couldn't tell you how many.
SPEAKER_02:Nice! Oh my gosh, I'm so impressed. Okay, 47 out of 50 states. Um there is no one in Hawaii. In Hawaii, that's it. Yep. And then um, and three states, um, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Massachusetts, the job is called Secretary of the Commonwealth. Um, but so so okay, so now that we know that there are 47 of you in this exact role, um what do you do? What are your role what are your roles and responsibilities in this job?
SPEAKER_01:Well, they're different in every state. Um in Michigan, I serve as the chief elections official and the chief motor vehicle officer. There's only one other state in the country where you have that role as the chief motor vehicle officer, and that's Maine, although some other states are trying to change that. In several states, uh secretaries are in charge of all business filings. I don't have that in Michigan, but it is in place in many states. Some are in charge of securities. Uh, overall, I think this is the role of the Secretary of State is that as a regulator. And then each state kind of puts different things in our portfolio based on that. Uh, the other interesting thing, and I think New Hampshire is one of the states, um, Michigan used to be uh there, like the chief historian of the state in charge of like libraries or the history uh documents of the state. Uh, and I know in my time with uh Secretary Gardner when he was Secretary of New Hampshire, I always I know he's quite a history buff and he loved sharing stories. I don't know if it was in the official role that he was the chief historian, but he certainly served in that way.
SPEAKER_04:Very cool.
SPEAKER_00:And New Hampshire is uh is uh, I mean, obviously elections is certainly it's probably the most important, highest profile function of the office, but we also have corporations, securities regulation. Uh we have the state archives and records management, and some really amazing historical documents are housed in that uh in that facility. And then uh unique among the states is we have the division of vital records. Most in most states, that agency is housed in the Department of Health and Human Services. But there's some great synergy there uh between uh Vital Records and the Secretary of State's office because of the work that we do uh with the uh municipal clerks around the state. And uh the death records that are generated through vital records we can share easily with our supervisors of the checklist when they're maintaining voter checklists.
SPEAKER_04:Very cool. Yeah, and I think you know making sure that that every qualified voter can vote is is part of it, but also making sure that the records are are kept up to date so that it just like good housekeeping, right? You keep the voter list exactly as it should be. Um one thing I we were uh uh wondering about, Ellen and I, was um when you look at we're we're really you know big into voting volunteerism, right? So making sure that that America has enough volunteer poll workers at the polls to uh to help administer elections. And you know, we created the Vet the Vote Public Awareness and Recruitment Campaign back in 2022 when uh Tina Barton over at the Federal Elections Group or Election Assistance Commission, I think it was, uh, told us that there's about 130,000 short across the country for 2022. COVID, uh threats of political violence, et cetera, really kind of decreased volunteerism. When you look at 2024 or any any big election year in your state, like just to give our audience an idea of the scale, like how many people do you need to recruit every year just to administer elections? And these are volunteers.
SPEAKER_01:Well, in Michigan, we have 5,000 precincts, and every precinct has at least three people working at it, uh, sometimes more, depending on the location and the size. So on election day itself, we need about 20,000 election workers, 15 to 20,000 election workers. We now also are adding nine days of early voting here in Michigan, which is basically adding like nine election days prior to the last election day for the second Tuesday in November. So that will mean we need, I mean, there are obviously people will work multiple days, but we're anticipating anywhere from 25,000, uh, well, I would say, I would estimate about 25,000 election workers. Um, notably, though, in 2020, we recruited 30,000 new election workers. We have an abundance of folks who want to serve in our state, and I think a lot of other states have found that as well. Certainly, while challenges have emerged, be it the global pandemic in 2020 or the misinformation and attacks on election officials throughout the last several years, throughout it all, um individuals have been willing to step up and serve. And I think of you know, no community greater than the veterans community, and I know you guys have done a lot of work on that, but certainly the veterans community has been at the heart of those who have stepped up to say, in this moment, we want to defend our democracy, not necessarily by serving overseas in the military, but by serving here at home as a as a poll worker and as an election worker. So we are still looking to recruit election officials for 2024. We've got our website, uh we call it our democracy MVP program uh set up where anyone uh who is eligible can register and volunteer to be an election worker throughout our state. And that's gonna continue to help us generate more people and personnel uh and also make a plug for our partnerships with sports teams. In Michigan, we've got uh four really vibrant professional sports teams, and they have provided personnel and staff, even having players serve as election workers in past elections. So we leave no stone unturned in aggressively recruiting folks to step up and serve. But again, the veterans community has been front and center through all of it, really helping us meet our needs.
SPEAKER_04:That's that's that's awesome. And we were a big fan of partnering with uh the sports teams and putting their large marketing arms and budgets to work for sure. Secretary Scanlon, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:That's fine. In New Hampshire, we have 309 polling places. And uh a polling place is uh is a town boundary or a city ward boundary, and because of that, we have some of the smallest polling places in the country, but we also have some of the largest, if not the largest, with uh 18 to 20,000 voters uh in in a single polling location. And uh in New Hampshire, our election officials, our local election officials, are actually elected at the local level by the citizens of those communities. So they know they know their neighbors, which is a very positive thing. And then beyond that, uh we recruit, actually, the towns recruit, uh probably 6,000 volunteers uh to help uh as poll workers in the individual polling places. And for the most part, the cities and towns in New Hampshire do a great job of that. They have a good pool of reliable uh helpers that can come in on election day and run a successful election. But uh in trying to just add to that pool, we partnered with Vet the Vote and had a great event in the town of Merrimack just a couple of months ago where we set up a mock polling place and invited the public, but specifically uh veterans, to come in and learn firsthand uh all of the checks and balances that are at play inside of a polling place so that they have a broader knowledge of what actually takes place beyond the physical aspect of getting your ballot, marking it, and then dropping it in the ballot box on the way out of the building. Um we had some uh some camera crews there, and we've done a couple of really great videos that we're gonna be able to use as training uh tools and promotion opportunities for more poll workers. Um BC News, I don't know if you saw that, Alan, but NBC News was there and really did a great segment uh on that. And the the town of Merrimack did their own as well. And and then the NFL, the Patriots, lent us three former players, and they were absolutely great. I mean, they were engaging, uh, had a good time, and and you know, certainly they were a nice draw uh to the people that came to the event.
SPEAKER_02:So Yeah, and and and Secretary Scanlon, I have to say that one of the coolest things, Secretary Benson, you'll love this too, is is that the the woman who for years has run um Merrimex uh you know local elections, she's the she's the local election, senior local election official there. Um she we were we were talking and she was you know just presenting as an election official. And as we got further into it, I she she kind of talked about the fact that she also was a the spouse of a veteran had been a military spouse. And so we we shared stories about that. But you know, so all the way up and down the line, in any every corner of America, there are spouses of of vet of you know veterans who served before and and veterans themselves, and they're all you know, sort of peeking around the corner and in many of these positions, serving again. Um, and I think I just thought that was so cool that we didn't even plan it. And here she was, uh she was she and I were sharing stories of of deployment and being left with the kids back home. That was really cool.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, and those are still big numbers. I know New Hampshire, a little bit smaller state, but but thousands of people in in Michigan, I mean, over 21,000. I mean, that's like the entire first Marine Division, you know, showing up to run polls. I mean, you know, and uh that's a staggering amount of time.
SPEAKER_01:We've recruited 80, 80,000. Oh, go ahead, sorry.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, please.
SPEAKER_01:Uh we've recruited 80,000 total new election workers since 2020. I mean, it is really incredible. The story very much is one of sort of the threats and the challenges, but the other side of the coin are the extraordinary number, tens of thousands of people who've stepped up to serve, uh even amidst all these challenges.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's great. My my wife, um, when she was serving and early voting here in Virginia, the the entire crew, the entire crew for that day was all veterans, all eight of them. So um very great. Yeah. Um, when you think about the challenges to recruiting, I mean, both of you are having successes, but I know you talked to a lot of your counterparts around the country. Like, what what are they seeing as like impediments to uh volunteerism or what's what's happening that that some states are not doing as well as as yours?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think one of the challenges for all of us is the turnover. Um, we have seen a lot of new people come in. You know, we make sure our our spots are filled and and the new people coming in are very enthusiastic and um ready to serve. But you know, traditionally, the po the role of the election worker is one of someone who's served for many, many years. And I still meet election workers who you know have have been. At every election they've been able to for you know 25, 30 years. So that comes with a lot of experience and wherewithal and knowledge. And when people do emerge out of that or decline to serve again, we do lose that historical knowledge and that experience. And that has been a hit we've all taken. And so it's great that many of us have recruited election officials. We've had to to fill these vacancies. But at the same time, uh, you know, we can't necessarily always replace the uh gravitas that comes from the decades of experience that many of these election workers who are now retiring uh had acquired.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, in uh in New Hampshire, our poll worker uh uh poll worker ranks are aging uh uh rapidly, and uh we are starting to see some younger people come in uh and get involved uh in that process. But people's lives are busy today, and you know, the the cost of living forces them to spend more time working, um and it's difficult to volunteer generally, you know, for anything, much less the elections. Um we have to stress the importance of uh the election process and how fundamental that is to democracy and ask people to sacrifice a little bit for something that is really important to our way of life.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, definitely. I think it almost gives you know good um support for the argument of why not make election day a federal holiday, you know, for for most people, right? So, you know, we're you know, people have the entire day off to go vote and serve and volunteer. So um and I'm not asking you to support or or or not support that position, but um when you think about um one of the things that we are concerned with that we the veterans of military families is election denialism, right? And I think you know, we have a saying around here that when any American doubts the outcome of our elections, we kind of all lose in a sense. So we're curious, like what can states and counties do to help increase public trust in elections?
SPEAKER_01:Hmm uh well, one of the things we've done is uh and this was actually I mean maybe Secretary Scanlon, I should let you go first because we were inspired by your work in New Hampshire in creating a voter confidence council. Um so actually I'll I'll defer to you because uh because I got the idea from you and I can talk about what we're doing in Michigan.
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh voter confidence is a really, really important issue. Uh if voters are confident that they're the elections are running well, uh, they're accurate, they they reflect the results uh on the day of the election, they're more likely to vote because they believe their vote matters. But if they have reason to believe that the process is flawed, that the results that are reported are not accurate, or uh you know, we hear a lot about fraud, you know, if if they feel that that's part of the process and their vote won't matter, then participation uh will decline. It's as simple as that. And so the uh what I found uh after having a special committee on voter confidence uh that operated for about a year was that number one, the voters of this country need an opportunity to express themselves before uh individuals that can make a difference. Um and it is important for that opportunity to take place so that they can complain about uh you know what they've heard on social media and things like that, and uh and we can have a solid discussion about what the reality is. And uh you know, after listening to uh at least a dozen uh sessions of voters coming in, both pro and con, about how well our elections are run, we were able to find some common ground on where we can you know have have a core so that we can build upon it. And um, you know, there are things that we have to look at. Voting machines, for example, if if a voter can't actually see how that machine is counting a ballot, uh they can have doubts about how it is counting the ballots. And we have to be able to counter that or at least explain how those devices are operate, and we have to be able to audit the devices after the fact just to prove to them that they were uh operating properly. The other really important part of this is transparency. Um, we have to keep these processes simple, and uh we shouldn't be afraid to let people see uh what's happening all the way through to the extent that we can without uh imposing on a person's private right to their vote. And uh those are things that we're working on in New Hampshire now, but you know, the best uh engaging people to participate as volunteers in the election process is also a big part of that. And the reason why we had the event in Merrimack focusing on the veteran community is that those individuals are already well respected in their community, and the positions and their thoughts about how the election process works is really, really important. And if we can make sure that veterans know that the way things are being run are above board and that they're accurate and they're fair, um, I think that goes a long way to instilling the confidence that we need among just regular voters.
SPEAKER_04:Definitely, definitely. Secretary Benson, you you're gonna say something.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. And and we recognize in achieving all those principles, it's very important that we bring in trusted voices who can be the vehicles or vessels for the truth and to do that proactively now, as opposed to waiting until October of next year when the misinformation has already hit a lot of people. And so we've established a voter confidence council in Michigan and are building out 10 localized councils uh throughout the state in various communities. Uh the these councils are comprised of uh political leaders, uh, faith leaders, business leaders, labor leaders, uh, and others, sports leaders, and we'd love to have some veterans and military service members as part of it as well. And we do two, three things uh with these councils. We equip everyone with the information, the nitty-gritty of voting, uh, making sure you mail your ballot in time, making sure you track your ballot if you've mailed it so that it arrives on time, uh, and making sure you know where to vote early if you choose to vote early, or how to find your polling place, or how to check your registration. All of those specifics we are working with these trusted voices to deliver, and then we develop content, whether it be PSAs or webinars or just postcards, that these trusted voices can then make their own and communicate out to those who look to them for information. And then finally, we ask for their partnership in hosting events and roundtables and uh or showing up at existing gatherings and also having a presence on social media so that we can together proactively disseminate trusted information about our elections. So we're trying to take those goals of ensuring people have voters, ensuring voters have confidence in our processes uh and partner with trusted leaders who can disseminate that information in in very realistic, meaningful ways.
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh note for for a future conversation, we would be happy to do uh a similar event to what we did with Secretary Scanlon um in in New Hampshire and do do one of our sort of vet the vote events with with you, Secretary Benson. Because it was exactly that. It was exactly that. You know, sort of all the poll workers at the event were veterans, the people that came in and checked. I mean, it was it was really sort of very holistic. So yeah, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Great.
SPEAKER_01:Our team will follow up. We'll do that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. No, that'd be that'd be fantastic. Um, yeah, and I think you know, the other the other side from the the electoral poll volunteer aspect is understand that we as volunteers have an educational responsibility as well, right? To when a voter's got a question or you know, some people just get in the polls and they're a little bit cranky about why do I need to do this or why do I need to do that, um, to help educate them as far to the process as well and say, hey, well, this is in place for very good reason. It's to ensure the security of your vote, um, you know, and and and to walk them through that. Because I know a lot of times, like when people the few times that that I've been in a poll worker where people got a little testy, it just seemed to me like they just want to be heard, right? Um so you know, we were able to kind of dive in and and um and mitigate that a little bit. I think that's one of the things that we're trained to do as veterans is really um identify people who seem to be a little bit animated or irritated and then engage with them and then kind of talk the pressure down so that uh you know, we can answer their questions or do what needs to be done to make sure that they get through the line and get you know, process uh their vote and everything. But but even yeah, I think we we also encourage veterans who are skeptical of the process to become part of the process. Um, you know, here's the the the book for the state of Maryland when I was uh an election official there, Inch Thick. And when we were going through the training for this thing, I looked over at my wife and I was like, are are we like launching nuclear missiles here because it's like both you know keys in the machine at the same time and you're you know opening it up and recording all the code numbers and tamper-proof tape. And and I I I I left that training, I I entered skeptical and left very confident that you know the state of Maryland was doing business in Charles County the right way. And I had a similar experience here. Now I'm in Warren County, Virginia. So I think you know, if for the people that listening, if you're skeptical about the process, volunteer. Like learn it from the inside out, just like you did the military, uh, because it is important, it's an important aspect of our democracy, and secretaries of state around the country are counting on volunteers like you to staff the polls so that people can actually exercise the the right that we all fought for. Um what else are we going to do?
SPEAKER_02:So quick quick question while Joe Oh, I was gonna say Joe, just a quick question for for these these guys, because I think it's a really bright spot in America today. Uh I I was lucky to join your your your group call, um, whether it's group therapy call, your National Association of Secretaries of State call. Um, it was it was it was incredible. But the number one thing I noticed as a as a citizen, as a military spouse, is everyone kind of gets along. And so I'm curious if your sense of of the job is that there's actually more camaraderie um at your level of of sort of you know elected or or or sort of appointed position in our politics structure than in a lot of other places.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, at our best, we're we are regulators, we're not, we're administrators, we're not politicians. And especially because many of us are appointed uh by legislators or governors, uh, I think you see that element of professionalism that is not necessarily present in other associations that include statewide election officials. I think if you look at treasurers, auditors, you'll see the same sort of professionalism, but certainly once you go towards like lieutenant governors, attorneys general, uh you see a lot more politics, uh, which I've always loved about our group, our association, for the most part, uh, is keeps the politics at bay.
SPEAKER_04:What?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree. There's so much that we can learn from each other. Um, you know, the the the the we all have the same function for the most part in running elections, and you know, the each state uh has its own ideas, and and sometimes those ideas uh when they're shared uh turn out to be good for other states as well. And so it it's it's just good to have uh open communication and and uh and good access.
SPEAKER_04:And I think that's kind of a missed story is that at many levels of government there is a high degree of professionalism, a lot of collegiality. Um we might not see it if you're watching Fox or MSNBC or CNN every night, but um uh you know, with a focus on on outreach politics in in the federal uh you know, in Washington, D.C. But um one thing before I know I want to be respectful of everyone's time, um absentee ballots. You know, there's been a lot of swirl, a lot of misinformation put out about like the security of absentee ballots. Ellen and I know that this is something that's been in effect as far as we can trace back to the Civil War, uh, where military people were voting by absentee ballot. I voted for 20 years by absentee ballot. Um what do you what do the what does the public need to know about absentee ballots? And can you just kind of help display some myths for us, please?
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, I mean, certainly we know the vast majority of voters, regardless of party or partisanship or politics, want accessible elections. They want voting to be accessible and secure. Absentee ballots or allowing citizens to vote from home or somewhere else are a key part of making elections accessible. Uh in the on the domestic side, they ensure people can get their ballot at their convenience, fill it out at their convenience in their kitchen table, do research on the different votes they're going to make, and then return it at their convenience as long as it gets in on time. And they can return it in Michigan through the mail at a local Dropbox or in person at their clerk's office. And then on top of that, they can track the ballot, both its delivery to them and their delivery back to be counted. And we have multiple six, in fact, levels of security and identification checks to make sure that only the person who has requested the ballot is an eligible voter, able to fill it out and return it. And you know, all of that is at the domestic level that doesn't even cover the importance of making absentee voting accessible to those who are serving overseas and are inherently going to be absentee in a particular election, military service members and their families. And we've worked in Michigan to make sure that, like many other states, those serving overseas are able to uh fill out, request a ballot and have it uh returned in time to be counted. I had a very uh memorable experience when my husband was serving in Afghanistan in the August 2012 presidential primary or primary election, in a presidential election, and he was uh in the field voting from Afghanistan, and his ballot, though it was sale, it was mailed a month before the election date, it still wasn't received uh until after, and it was ultimately returned uh on uh and unaccepted. And it was really heartbreaking to see the system fail someone who had full knowledge of what to do and try to do everything right. So it taught me that there's a whole lot more we need to do uh to protect that access to the vote, and it's a lot of what I've tried to prioritize as Secretary of State here in Michigan.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, Secretary Scanlon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh absentee voting is is very important. There's no question about that. It gives individuals that can't make it to the polling place an opportunity to make sure that their vote gets in. Absentee voting is is probably one of the parts of elections that varies dramatically from state to state. And there are some states in the country now that actually uh they vote primarily by mail. That's the way that the voters in states cast their ballots. New Hampshire is probably on the other extreme where we have a constitutional uh provision that says that absentee balloting can only be used for purposes of absence or uh disability. And the legislature has tried to define exactly what that means in statute, but uh it would probably require a change to our state constitution to have no excuse absentee voting. So um, you know, the the process that we have is uh secure. Um we have a provision for military and overseas ballots as required by uh the federal congressional act where we have to have those ballots uh at least emailed 45 days before the election. And we're actually getting ready to get our round of ballots out for the upcoming presidential primary uh at the end of January. And um and then we you know we're expanding upon that uh to create opportunities for individuals, especially with sight disabilities, where they can also receive their ballot at home electronically, uh uh cast their votes, and then get it back to their town clerk.
SPEAKER_04:Fantastic. And I want to be conscious of time. I know you both have very busy schedules, so I just wanted to say, yeah, absentee ballots, safe, secure, time tested. Don't be afraid to use it. Uh they work. And um, yeah, you get a big flashing warning light in the poll book when you check into the polls if you've already had been issued an absentee ballot. I've seen it firsthand. Uh but thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today about your your jobs, what secretaries of state do, how important our elections are, and what veterans and military families can do to help support our elections. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for everything that you're doing to help support the foundations of our democracy.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much, both of you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:And thank you, everyone out there for listening. If you found this podcast episode interesting or useful, please share it with the people you know. This episode was co-hosted by me, Joe Plunsler, and Ellen Gifstenson. The audio and video were edited by Cameron King. Vet Our Democracy is a production of We the Veterans and Military Families, a 501c3 nonprofit, nonpartisan, pro-democracy organization focused on promoting positive and patriotic civic engagement to strengthen American democracy. Find out more about us at we the veterans.us and follow us on social media and wherever you wrangle your favorite podcasts. Thanks.
