The Ben Maynard Program
"Tell Your Story". Everyone has a story. Not just the famous. This is a guest driven program but when we are "guest free", It's just YOU and ME! I love music and we will talk a lot about it. Enjoy the ride!
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The Ben Maynard Program
Pepper Anne's True Crime Tales, Publishing Adventures, and Heartfelt Family Values
True crime aficionados, brace yourselves! Join me on this riveting episode of the Ben Maynard Program as we welcome the remarkable Pepper Anne, an author who has spent over a decade unearthing the chilling truths in her book, "The Notorious Texas Swindler: The Mastermind Behind the Grayson County Five." Pepper Anne's story is personal and intense, intertwining her own family's haunting involvement in a Texas crime ring with her courageous journey to bring the narrative to the public. From sabotage and hacking to life-threatening encounters, her relentless pursuit of truth will leave you on the edge of your seat.
We don't just talk crime; we explore the arduous process of turning true events into compelling literature. Pepper Anne shares her experiences with publishing, from managing a team of editors and attorneys to marketing her book in a saturated market. The conversation gets even more intriguing as we discuss her future projects, including a gripping crime fiction series and a potential collaboration with her mother. For those aspiring writers out there, Pepper Anne's story is a testament to resilience and the importance of a strong support system.
But it's not all about crime and writing. We also delve into the core values that drive us, from the importance of family and genuine friendships to our shared passions for music and cooking. Relive the golden days of country music with us, as we reminisce about legends like Patsy Cline and George Strait. We even entertain the idea of starting an animal rescue foundation, inspired by our mutual love for pets. Pepper Anne's visit isn't just an interview; it's a heartfelt conversation filled with personal anecdotes, valuable insights, and a reminder of what truly matters in life. Don't miss out on this captivating episode!#tellyourstory #familymatters #interview #pepperannetheauthor #thenortorioustexasswindler #truecrimecommunity
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Hey there, welcome into the Ben Maynard program. Thanks for being here. Before we get started, a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. As you know, this program is available on multiple podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, amazon Music and Spotify, or you can search the Ben Maynard Program and you'll have multiple options to choose from. But go to Buzzsprout, please that's where my website is and go with it. However, if you can't resist all this right here and maybe a little bit of let me get the direction a little bit of that right there next to me and you're watching on YouTube, then please subscribe to the channel, give me a thumbs up and leave a comment. I love your comments, I read all of them and you know that I reply to them. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram. All one word Ben Maynard. So with that, plenty of ways to take in this show for your dancing and listening pleasure.
Speaker 1:And as you can see, I have a. Let me get it right. As you see, I have a guest right here next to me in studio and we are on. We're in the middle of a pretty good run of guests. So strap in and take hold, because we're having some fun here and it brings me great pleasure to introduce true crime. Author Pepper Ann. Thank you so much for being here, pepper.
Speaker 2:Thank you, ben, for extending an invitation for me to be here. I'm just tickled pink to be here today. Thank, you.
Speaker 1:No, you're very welcome and it's a pleasure for me. Look, you reached out to me first and that kind of just. I was taken aback by that. Wait a minute, somebody's actually reaching out to me wanting to be on this show. I'm not the one having to try to pull people in, so I just yeah, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Well, I enjoy your show. And when I heard it I was like, hey, I want to see if I can be on there. And I, yeah, I wanted to be here for sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, I just have to say, oh my gosh, because I have somebody out here that says, hey, I watch your show, I enjoy it. You know it's so funny. I tease this is just a tiny little podcast and I make no money on it. I never expect to make any money on it and that's okay. I'm perfectly okay with it because I do it merely for the enjoyment of it and I get to meet people. I'm getting to meet people like you, but I would like to reach more people as well. And I say that I tell my own family, you know, and most of my friends I say how can I expect to grow an audience if I can't get my own family and friends to watch or listen, family and friends to watch or listen. So just one of those things. So it warms my heart to hear you say that you actually watch this show.
Speaker 2:I do, I do, yeah, you're, I. I'm located in Texas and, believe me, you're, you're in, you're in Texas. I mean, you're all over, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:All right. Well, maybe, maybe we can start a groundswell there, and who knows, you know, maybe I'll just get so big I can't walk the streets in Texas. Yeah, yeah, hey, it's possible, it could happen. I doubt it very seriously, but you know, speaking of Texas, before we get into why you're here, what is going on in Central Station, george Strait Are you kidding me? Almost 111,000 people.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm gonna be honest with you, I wasn't here that weekend that it happened. I was in an event in Dallas for you know, for a book signing and an author panel. So I luckily I didn't have to get caught up in all the traffic. I couldn't believe it. I mean it was the largest concert. I mean we had so many people come to this area.
Speaker 1:The largest attendance in US history for any artist or band or anything. And I love George, I love George, I love George. So I think that's when I heard that. I heard it the other day and I was like whoa, that is great.
Speaker 2:Well, you know who else? But George, right? I mean, there's so many wonderful artists out there, but it just makes sense. It's so believable with George Strait.
Speaker 1:And why not, george? You know, I mean, he's a classic country artist, been around forever and his music is timeless. When I heard that I thought it was great and I wanted to just spend a minute talking about it. I have to bring music into this show. It seems like every episode, no matter what I got to bring music into this show. It seems like every, every episode, no matter what, I got to bring it in somehow.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, I think that's the perfect artist to bring into it today. Yeah, I mean, we love George Strait here.
Speaker 1:That's great, and so the big reason why you're here is because of this, and you were so nice enough to send this to me. Let me get this on camera here. I hope everyone can see that this is Pepper's book. It is called the Notorious Texas Swindler and it's got a subtitle of the Mastermind Behind the Grayson County Five. So it's a true crime story, right? It is, oh it sure is. So then, my first question to you, pepper, is why did you write this book?
Speaker 2:Well, I wrote it because it's about a family member. I wrote it because when I discovered I was related to this individual discovered I was related to this individual I started doing a little research, and the more that I discovered, the more I found out that there's a crime ring here in the state of Texas involving these individuals, and the individuals that I exposed in the book are still out and about in play today. And so I thought, if I'm going to write a book, I want to write something that's got. It's got some kick to it. So I wrote it because I wanted to expose individuals. I wrote it because it's a family member, I think, and I think it's some darn good investigative reporting. I mean, I'm not a reporter, but Well, ok.
Speaker 1:So then what? What type of of investigating or research did you have to do for this book?
Speaker 2:Well, I had worked with private investigators before in the past.
Speaker 2:Now, I was not a licensed PI, but I just worked side by side with some of them, so I'd learn how to how to get information.
Speaker 2:And so when I, when I first started this, I reached out to DAs and district clerks offices, sheriff's offices or anyone that I could talk to to see if I could get some factual records you know some some records and things, reports and I based my storyline off of that. And then, of course, other research came along when I reached out to victims of the crimes that were committed and they spoke with me. I also interviewed friends and family and it was kind of kind of ironic how it happened but some of the individuals in the book who were tied up with some of the crimes that didn't want anyone to know about them, they were stepping forward to talk to me, to give me their side. They wanted to expose the same individual. So my research was crazy, wild, um, and I and I I was researching it the whole time I was writing the book because I kept getting more and more information, right time, yeah.
Speaker 1:So okay, so before we, before we move on, then I want to this. I want to get this right. I kind of mess this up quite a bit. I'm showing the book one more time. People and this book is available. Where can people get it? Pepper?
Speaker 2:It's available everywhere my website, pepperannauthorcom if you want to sign copy. If you don't want to sign copy, you can get it at Amazon, barnes and Noble. It's even available at Walmart, target, any bookstore. All you have to do is type in the title of the book and it comes up everywhere. It's even in libraries. So if you have a library card, check and see if it's there first.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's great and, yeah, I want to make sure that people know where this book is available. So pretty much anywhere books are sold, then, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's available hardback, paperback and in ebook form.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's great, so, okay. So then you had to do some extensive research and investigating, and how long did it take you to write this book?
Speaker 2:It took me about 12 years, wow. Well, the reason why is because I had to keep rewriting it. The individuals I exposed hacked into my computer and deleted my work, so I had to rewrite it three times. Yeah, it would not have taken me that long if it hadn't been for that.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so now do you know who it was that hacked into your computer.
Speaker 2:I have a pretty good idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, All right, that's fine. That's fine. We don't have to expose any names here. But somebody was able to hack into your computer. And then what? They just corrupted your files.
Speaker 2:If you read yes, yes, if you read the book, it tells what each individual did and what they did to cover their work. So, yes, a lot of times what they would do is they would send me an email and then I would open it oh, okay, my work, okay, I get you, I get you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I I'm really um, and, in all transparency to my audience, I have not read this book yet because I just received it this week folks and everyone's pretty aware of my busy schedule and then also trying to get this show in, so I have not had a chance to read this book yet. I do look forward to reading it. And when it came in the mail Pepper Catherine is the one that opened it up I said, oh, that's got to be my book. And she opened it up and she's oh, and she got excited about it. She says, oh, that's got to be my book. And she opened it up and she's oh, and she got excited about it. She says, oh, should I start reading it now? And I said, well, you'll finish it before I do so she wants to get into it as well.
Speaker 1:So we're very excited for you and yeah, I mean, I don't want you to come on here and tell us the entire story of the book. We want people to go out there and buy it. We want them to read it and learn for themselves. So, but yeah, unfortunately, I think you're going to have to give away one tidbit or two you know here and there. Absolutely, yeah, so 12 years. But was that primarily because someone hacked into your computer, or is it just you kind of had the book written and then it's like, oh, now you found out more information, so you had to put that in the book as well?
Speaker 2:I was because, while I was writing the book, the individuals I exposed were coming in and trying to keep me from doing it. When I first took this project on let me back up here I didn't know that I was related to the individual that the story was about.
Speaker 2:So, I was told that we had a family member who was a cattle wrestler and a cattle wrestler is someone who sells farming equipment and this, that and the other, and he was also the fella who was over the Grayson County five jail escape. So I don't know, some people remember it, some don't, but back in 2001, there were five inmates who escaped a jail in Sherman, texas, and they were on the run for four days. So it was a big deal. Now the family member that told me this was my was my mom. She said we're related to him and I said, well, I don't recall ever hearing the story, so so let me do a little digging, so I did, and so anyway.
Speaker 2:So I I did my research and I reached out to him. His name is bob. We are cousins because our grandfathers were brothers. Now he didn't know about us. A lot of us didn't really know about him okay so anyhow.
Speaker 2:But yeah, when I reached out to him, I decided to take the story on, and when I did, one of the individuals that I exposed in the book had reached out to me and wanted to try to co-author the book with me, and what he was wanting to do was to oversee everything I was putting in the book, and I said no. So after that happened, then we noticed lug nuts were loosened and then eventually my work was deleted. So it was kind of an ongoing thing, and that's actually why it took me so long.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like that this particular family member didn't mind the story coming out, but they wanted to be able to control the narrative.
Speaker 2:Not the family member. The family member was not the one that caused the problem. It was the individuals that he he was caught up with, some individuals before the Grayson County jail estate and it's actually what landed him in jail.
Speaker 2:So in the 80s, in the early 80s, Bob got caught up with a DPS state trooper and the trooper is the one who got him into rustling cattle and when all of that came down the trooper lost his license. He may have spent minimal days in the jail he didn't get very much and Bob got probation. And there were some individuals who came in and they paid his bonds and those individuals are the ones that I'm exposing. They're also the ones who got him into more, bigger crimes.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, my family member is not the one who's caused any of the chaos for me. It's the individual I'm exposing and he didn't want them. He didn't want them to come forward with their story because he wanted the truth to come out. Um, when everything came down, they got away with their crimes, and he's the only one that uh yeah, that got in trouble for it, so. So the whole point of me telling the story was to expose all of these individuals.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, um, so it took you 12 years to put this book together, um, but I think you told me that you self-published this one, right? I? Did yeah, and what's that process like?
Speaker 2:okay. Well, let me just say this uh, when I when I started this putting you on the spot no, you are not I just want to make sure everyone understands that the people involved in helping me. I always give them recognition because they deserve it they really do when I first took this project on, I thought I want to publish this traditionally so I reached out to literary agents, and a lot of them.
Speaker 2:If they don't have time or they're not interested, they don't respond. They just don't, but because my story is a regional story a lot of them did respond and they said this is really good, but I don't know how I can push this. You need to keep going with it. So they encouraged me.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:When I first took this project on, I got a literary attorney. Because I was exposing so many people, I wanted to make sure I was protected. I wanted to know what I could and couldn't say. Then, after I got Gwen, I got an editor and John came in the picture. So these two individuals have been with me pretty much from the get-go.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:We wrote it, we did everything. Then, when I was ready to take the next step, to get it published, I got a PA Her name is Laura and she's actually the one that walked me through everything. So she had to get it where it was ready publisher, ready. I guess she was here. She could give you step by step. I'm sorry, I can't.
Speaker 1:That's why I have the professionals.
Speaker 2:They're amazing.
Speaker 1:You know, I just I like this. I want you to continue, because this is interesting to me. This really is. I didn't, I guess I just didn't realize that you had to have I mean, there were so many people that would be involved in writing a book.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, if it's nonfiction and if you're exposing people, especially dangerous people. I wanted to make sure that I had everything in order.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and before, actually right before I got Laura, probably a year before I got Laura, I started marketing the book. I started getting social you know, I did TikTok and Facebook and everything you know, got a website set up. And then I reached out. I found Laura, and all of these people are not easy to find. A lot of times when you're trying to find an attorney or an editor or a PA, you have to click, you just have to click, and we all did instantly. So it was almost like they were sent to me. But, yeah, then Laura helped get it where it needed to be and then, once it was ready to be published, she put it out there and we got it all over the place. Yeah, but it's taken a while. It was published in August of 22.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it takes a little while to get noticed, especially with your first book, if you're not known.
Speaker 1:So it's almost been two years that it's been out. Is it really starting to gain a lot of traction now?
Speaker 2:It is. I'm surprised. I didn't know it was going to take that long. Yeah, I have people reaching out to me, asking questions, talking to me, and I don't know how they found the book. I'm sure it's because it's somewhere that they've been and it just it takes time. When you write a book, it takes time to get it out there. I didn't know that when I started I had no idea, but yeah, it's a process.
Speaker 1:You think that this is well. Well, let me rephrase this are there more books in pepper ann?
Speaker 2:yes oh that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you like to stay in the true crime arena, or you just want to write about anything that comes to you I do want to stay in the true crime genre.
Speaker 2:Right now, I'm actually working on a fiction series. It's a crime fiction series, okay, but each book in the series is based off of actual events, actual crime, Okay. Kind of putting a twist on it. It's something I'm doing until I get the next story out there. I have another story that I'm kind of debating and we've kind of made the decision we were going to do it as a true crime. My mom is actually going to co-author it with me.
Speaker 1:All right, go mom yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyway. So yeah, we were going to write it as a true crime, but we're going to be exposing some people. Another family member.
Speaker 1:Another family member but this one is an upstanding person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not the criminals, but anyways, we would be exposing people and I don't know that I would have put my family through that again. So we're thinking about writing it as a fiction.
Speaker 1:Well, I know, I think that's that's great. You know, I, for me, I, I, I want to dip my toes in this, this pond and this pond and this pond over here. I really do. I started this podcast and I've always had a fascination with radio. I love radio and I always wanted to be like those guys on the radio and unfortunately I never had the opportunity to really do it.
Speaker 1:And then podcasting came about. I don't know, it was 15, 16 years ago, and in the last four or five, six years it's just exploded and so anyone can have a podcast and I guess that's kind of a good thing. And then the bad thing is anyone can have a podcast too, and so I'm trying to be in that front part of the. Anyone can have a podcast. You know the good side of it. But I always I mean probably for the last 25, 30 years I've always thought about writing a book and I thought, well, I would really like to write my memoir. But you know, I mean 25 years ago, I was in my 30s and so you know you can only write so much at that point. But being that I'm almost 59, I have a lot of life experience behind me and a lot of life behind me and I thought it'd be really neat to write that. Write my so-called autobiography, just not because I think I'm anyone special and that there's going to be a million people out there that want to read my story.
Speaker 1:I can't even get you know like a thousand people to watch my podcast. How am I going to get them to read my story? I can't even get you know like a thousand people to watch my podcast. How am I going to get them to read my story?
Speaker 2:That's the marketing side. I know how you feel. I've been there with my book. I get it.
Speaker 1:But my point to it is and I guess that it would at least be a document for, like my kids and my grandkids to say you know, we knew a lot about dad, or we knew a lot about grandpa, but, boy, we didn't know this stuff here, you know, good, bad ugly, whatever it might be, and um, and I like to tell stories anyway. So it's um, I don't know, it's just something that I've wanted to do. I actually started it about a about a year ago. I got about three pages written and I put it down.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, when I first took this project on, I had, um, I did speak with some people who assured me that if I hadn't had anything published before, hadn't written anything before it's probably not going to be good. Maybe I should get a ghostwriter. I even had an agent tell me and I didn't listen to him. I took the little piece of advice and I crumpled it up and put it in the trash. You do that sometimes, Good for you Good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he told me. He said you're not well-known, you need to find somebody who is and let them take the story and so in an option. So my, I guess where I'm going with this is I had my doubts at first. I wasn't sure I was the one to tell the story. There were so many signs and things that happened. And you know, once I wrote it and I got it out there and I got all these reviews people were just reviewing my book and they, just when they email me and they say this is amazing, I realized that I had a gift and it's something I enjoy. And I didn't know that I would like writing so much. It was something I always wanted to do, but I didn't know how it would turn out. So sometimes you don't know the ending of something, but if you give it a try, it just might work out. It might be the passion you didn't realize you had. You know.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good that you just you know, somebody gave you some quote, unquote advice and it was like, yeah, don't do this. And you said that, and you use that actually as motivation to continue to do what it is that you said. You've been getting people reviewing your book, giving it good reviews, saying some very nice things about it, and there's your validation right there that you chose the right path, and that was to do this on your own and tell your story the way it needed to be told. That's great.
Speaker 1:I just I felt free when I could tell, when I tell a story because it's about a family member, and I thought here we go, and it worked out well, it's probably a little bit better too, because it's like you're the one actually telling the story, you're the one doing all the heavy lifting, and I think there's more to, there's more satisfaction in that as well.
Speaker 2:There is, but I got a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that there were so many people behind me, so many people supporting me, because there were times when I wanted to walk away from it, because it was very challenging. Yeah, I mean, you know, you have people coming at you, you bet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that, that's wow. So now you're doing some public appearances and you know book signings or a book tour or anything like that, right, are you doing those things?
Speaker 2:I'm doing some of them Every time that I go to an event which isn't very big, but it's big enough for me. I mean, there's people that I'm excited, but every time I go, the individuals that I expose either show up or they contact me. So I kind of I'm selective about the events I go to, but I do. I do public speakings at libraries, schools, colleges, just different things, I'll you know book signingss, different locations and uh yeah it's just a few here and there, but yeah but that's great.
Speaker 1:And what kind of uh, what kind of crowd, I guess, as far as the the age demographics, what kind of crowd is showing up to your speaking events?
Speaker 2:Well, I tell you, usually it's it's kind of all ages. It's anywhere from the mid twenties, younger, you know, early twenties, and I have people as old as their ages, go up into their 70s. I mean, I have different.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. Yeah, anybody, I think that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is great. And it's a story that resonates with everybody. It's not just a certain age group, I guess.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, well, well, I had. I think it was maybe after the first time you and I had spoken on the phone. I I'd spoke to my mother and I let her know that you and I talked. I let her know you were a true crime author and she kind of got excited and I was like, oh okay, mom, maybe now you'll actually watch my podcast. I'm gonna have somebody on that you're interested in listening to or watching. So it took pepper and to get my mom to watch this show.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy. I hope she reads the book and tell her to email me and let me know what she thinks, because I want to. Oh cool, you know, that's what's so funny is a lot of people they'll read it and they email me and they tell me. You know, this is amazing.
Speaker 1:I've even had several people say um, you're my favorite author. When's your next one?
Speaker 2:coming out? I never.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's awesome that and that's what I'm talking about. You get that, you get that validation there and it's. You know, it's not to, it's not to swell your head or anything or give you a big ego, it's just to let you know that, yeah, I'm doing the right thing here and it's paying off and people actually want to pay attention to what it is that I'm doing, what I'm writing, that type of thing. So that's cool.
Speaker 2:It is Like you said, it's validation and it is a wonderful feeling. I went into this wanting to. When I took this on, there were articles online, newspaper articles online. There was even a magazine that had reported. They called law enforcement heat stone cops. They were referring to the individuals of law enforcement that they were trying to find the inmates when they escaped Grayson County jail. And it offended me, it made me mad and I thought, if the story is going to be told, I want to make sure that we get the actual story out there.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:I am so happy that people were enjoying the story and it's the real story, you know. So, yeah, the validation is wonderful, right.
Speaker 1:Well, once again, before we continue, I want to get this out again. Right here it's this book here, the Notorious Texas Swindler. It's available anywhere. You can buy books all over the place, or you can go to Pepper Ann's website right, what's that web address?
Speaker 2:again, it's pepperannauthorcom, yeah, and my website is so fun. It has so many different things on it, so scroll around.
Speaker 1:It's got a nice cute animated picture of herself on there. Picture of herself on there, yeah. So yeah, people go pick it up, read the story, All right. So who is Pepper Ann? Tell us a little bit about Pepper Ann besides the author.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. It'd be better off bringing my family in here. It'd be better off bringing my family in here. They could give you the truth.
Speaker 1:Bring them in. Bring them in. It was funny before we started, just to let the audience in. You and I were talking for a couple of minutes before we hit record and and Catherine, my wife comes in, you know, opens the door to the studio, or actually, she came to close the door. I had left it open and you said, oh no, bring her in. Bring her in. Bring her in. So you know what. Come on, come on. Everyone's welcome, thank you thank you.
Speaker 2:They would love to hear that. Well, you know what I to be honest with you, who I am. I I am a very fortunate young lady. Um, I have my. My friends are my. I don't call them friends to call them family. I have a big family and they're amazing. If I like y'all, love ya. You know, that's just, that's the way my family is. We were raised, we're Southern and you know, oh, you don't say I thought you were kidding I thought this was all pretend here.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. I think probably the one important thing about me is if there is something that's wrong, if there's something I can do to help or expose or discover and research and tell others about it and tell others about it. That's kind of what I feel like I enjoy doing most, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I don't like to see any of my friends or family in any kind of pain or being taken advantage of, and so I think that's one of the main reasons I took this on, because I thought, wait a minute, we need to write this. So I believe in writing wrongs, if it's possible, the legal way, of course, and I believe everybody has a voice and it should be heard. Everybody has a story and um, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know my tagline, pepper, it's tell your story. And you know, and I say, everyone has a story, not just the famous, but, um, you're famous in my world, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm certainly not famous, but, thank you, you're famous in my world. Like I said, when I when I heard your show, I was like, oh, I gotta reach out. You know, everybody has something to share. And um, you know, the, the movie stars, the, the amazing people in my life. They're not well known by the world, but they mean the world to me and that's all that matters to me. That's how, yes.
Speaker 1:And that's how I, that's how I, you know, that's how I approach things and I say that too, I may have some people on this, on this show, that have some notoriety, that are well-known, and that's and I obviously I love them for that.
Speaker 1:I love the opportunity to be able to have those folks on the, on the program. But you know a lot of the the people that I've had on this show guest-wise are friends and family and I say, look, they may not be famous way out there in the world, but in my circle they are, because and I was just talking about this the other day with a guest he's got friends that go back to his childhood and I said I'm the same way. I said I still have my buddies that I've known since 10 years old or or in some cases even younger than that, and we've just grown up together. We've remained friends for all these years 45 years, almost 50 years and he was from New York. He says, wow, I thought that was just a New York thing, but I think it's a Southern thing also.
Speaker 2:I think we all have that. I do. I think it's just. Yeah, you're right, it's all over the place. It shows how genuine we are, we're, we are, um, there. It's kind of a reminder, you know, that there is still good in the world, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I just think that, um, relationships are very important and and people are not disposable. So, no matter what age you get to know somebody, or they come into your life if it's a good fit. You kind of hang on to that and, yeah, family matters and and you said it and I believe it Family just doesn't have to be your blood.
Speaker 2:No, no, it doesn't. It doesn't. You know, someone had asked me, you know, who would be your hero. I have a list of heroes and they're not even really known worldwide or famously, but they're known in my group. You know, I could tell you one of my dearest and best friends, I love her to pieces. She's a nurse and she makes such a difference in people's lives and to me that's a hero. Yeah, I mean, I could go on and on, but yeah, and we've been friends for oh my God, she's going to kill me.
Speaker 2:Until our age, We've been friends maybe 30 years.
Speaker 1:Okay, maybe 25. That's a long time, though.
Speaker 2:Let's just be 25 and leave it at that. But yeah, yeah. So those people that we've known for a long time, they're worth keeping absolutely, maybe you should write her story I don't think, yeah, I don't I don't think she might not.
Speaker 1:She might not be up for that one it's not true crime.
Speaker 2:It's not true crime, so I'm not gonna take it oh okay, she's too good a person, right, yeah, well yeah, and the other stories you don't share. That's why we're such good friends.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, okay, I have a very small audience. No one listens to this show. It's okay, you can tell me, I'm all ears.
Speaker 2:Oh no, no, she's good as gold.
Speaker 1:All right. So what else? Do you tell me what it is that you like to do in your free time? We talked about this whole George Strait thing last weekend, you know, in College Station. So tell me about some of the things you like to do. Are you a big music lover?
Speaker 2:I do love music. I listen to different music. I listen. Well, I like the old country, I really do. I'm one of those. I grew up with, you know, patsy Cline, loretta Lynn, even everyone before them during their time, so I love them. I love listening to classic rock. I love music, I really do. Actually, I do that in my free time, when I have some downtime, you know I'm when I'm the story that I'm working on, the crime fiction. It was based back during the Kennedy years, oh wow, and I don't know if you saw that. I'm sure you did the movie Elvis with Austin. What was his name?
Speaker 1:I did, austin Butler yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was. I was impressed by that. I thought he did a really good job. I did Austin Butler, yes, yes, so I was impressed by that. I thought he did a really good job.
Speaker 1:I did too. I did think he did a really good job.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I was kind of, I was blown away by the music, and you know that he's saying and so I kind of listened to some of that music to kind of put me back in that time.
Speaker 2:That's great kind of put me back in that time. That's great, you know. So I like to read, I love to cook, I love to hang out with my friends and family. One of my biggest things I have a. I have a house trained rabbit. His name is loose. So if I could, if I could adopt every rabbit in the world, I would, that's great that's great.
Speaker 1:That's great. Well, I'm a dog person myself, I'm an animal lover, okay, but yes, I love my dogs. Unfortunately, I don't have any anymore. My last one passed away a little over a year ago and we're not quite ready. We're not quite ready yet for another one, but I love my dogs and so I get all these videos on Facebook with all the animals you know being friends, and dogs and deers are friends, and dogs and rabbits are friends. Oh no, it's just the best stuff. Just the best stuff ever.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. You know our uh, our first rabbit. His name was Dennis Hopper.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then he had a girlfriend named Lily and then we got loose and then Dennis and Lily passed Um, but yeah, you know what, anything having to do with animals, it it breaks my heart when I know there's an animal being hurt and I just so if, if I could do anything and not make a living, it would be to probably save all the animals in the world.
Speaker 1:You know I gosh, I, you and me, we need to. We need to come together and put something, some kind of foundation together for for animal rescue. You know, not just dogs and cats, but rabbits too, and and and raccoons and everything else. We need to do that Pepper, you and I.
Speaker 2:And don't forget the elephants. Don't forget the elephants.
Speaker 1:They're all welcome, they're all welcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. Uh, I I always said that, um that, and I love big dogs too, so I mean, like I had great Danes, so I always just so sweet. But I but I always said I would have 10 of them because I have space for it. I just don't know I could have, if I could afford to feed them all. I know.
Speaker 2:They have big hearts. They have huge hearts.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. They're just Great Danes are the best. They're just so sweet and so gentle and that's why they're dubbed gentle giants, you know? Yeah, Because they just are. There's not a sour bone in them, they're just great dogs, heart, soul, everything. But anyway, we'll get away from the animals right now. I don't want people turning this off.
Speaker 2:I got you, I understand.
Speaker 1:So, oh, what did I want to say? Oh, we were talking about country music, though, and you were talking about some of the artists that you like, and I'm right there with you. I love the classic artists, and I love me some Kenny Rogers, I love me Ronnie Millsap, mickey Gilley, obviously, george Strait, come on.
Speaker 2:Do you remember Mo Bandy?
Speaker 1:No, I haven't heard of.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know who mo bandy is. I'm kind of like what song he's saying the rodeo clown or something I don't, I'm gonna have to hold, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna write this down because I'm gonna have to look it up. Mo bandy, is it just b-A-N-D-Y?
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, you've heard him. You've heard him. I know if you pull him out you're going to say I recognize he's done a lot of great songs.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to have to check that out.
Speaker 2:Mo Bandy, and well, I mean everybody likes Jennings and Nelson and you know all the and who doesn't love Dolly Parton? That's right. Yeah, you know come on, Isn't it amazing that she's just still so active? And I mean, of course she would be, but she's just, she's going stronger today than she was, you know, 30 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to me because and I'm older than you and to me those are that's like the core of my country. You know how do I say it. That's that's just the core artists that I love in country. You know, I do like a little bit outside of that, but but man, those, those artists, they're just they're classic artists and I just love their stuff. Just great, great, great, great stuff.
Speaker 2:So when I listen to music, that's who I listen to. You know, what amazes me is, uh, you. You recall conway twitty right oh yeah, oh yeah so he actually got into rock before he got into country. Did you know that? I did not know that yeah, yeah, he sang rock and then he crossed over to the country donna.
Speaker 1:Wow, I'm getting school here.
Speaker 2:People on my own show I'm the worst when it comes to music and the knowledge, but I know some of the things.
Speaker 1:Not much, but yeah, I'm gonna look up me some Conway Twitty too. That's great, that's great. So you mentioned cooking, and I'm just going to let everybody in on a little secret here. But Pepper is like a master baker. She was sending me text message early this morning. No, no, you said you had baked a cake for the neighbor and you were delivering it to them, right?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I was actually decorating it. The cake had already been made. I'm a master decorator. I don't know how the cake's going to taste.
Speaker 1:Well, how did it come out?
Speaker 2:I think it was so cute. I really do. I was taking pictures and sending it to family members and they said that's so adorable and it was something I never had I would. Yeah, you know what? I actually went to Pinterest and it gave me the idea. Okay, yeah. That's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a great website Pinterest is. Huh, you get a lot of ideas from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, let's kind of try to bring it back around a little bit, okay, sure, back to this one. Right here everybody, the Notorious Texas Swindler Let me put my glasses on because the writing's too small for me so I can read the subtitle. So it's the Notorious Texas Swindler, the mastermind behind the Grayson County Five. This is a true crime, great, great story, and I hope you don't mind.
Speaker 1:I hope you don't mind, hope you don't mind but, you are such a sweetheart and, um, I just want to let everyone know how sweet you are, because when Pepper and I when Pepper and I were talking about you know getting this handled and and and booked and all that good stuff I asked Pepper if she would send me a book, because I wanted to. I wanted to really let you here in the audience. I wanted you to see the book so that you would go out and purchase this, and she was kind enough to do so, and then she, she signed it for me. She writes this little note, men, thank you so much for extending an invitation to me to be on your show. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Pepper Ann, just the sweetest and you really are I. You know, every time you and I have spoken, I come away feeling the same way I did the last time we spoke. You're a very, very sweet woman.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you Thank you.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you reaching out to me wanting to come on this. Come on this show and talk about your book. Yeah, so tell everyone again where it's available.
Speaker 2:Well, it's available on my website, pepperannauthorcom. You can type in the title of the book the Notorious Texas Swindler, you can Google it and it'll bring up anywhere and everywhere it's available.
Speaker 1:It is not only available in the United States.
Speaker 2:It's also available outside. I don't know how many countries. I can name them all, but I won't because it's so many. But it's available everywhere.
Speaker 2:And if you like. I said, if you have a library card and you want to check your library, go and see, and if it's not there, I ask you to request to have it put in. For me it's important to be in a library because that's a great way to get known. Because that's a great way to get known and for people, if they continue to check your book out, then it stays in the library. And they want more of your work.
Speaker 1:I never would have thought about that, that you actually get a tremendous amount of exposure by being in a library.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and I am in a lot of libraries all over the United States. I'm surprised, but yeah, so this book is easy to get.
Speaker 1:Well, my audience might be small pepper, but I had I. I do have to say it's worldwide. I'm on six continents. Okay, the only continent I have no reach is Antarctica, and I'm I've written a letter to the penguins there.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:We'll see what happens, but uh, so, hey, you know, you know we'll get some more books out across the globe. How's that?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. Anyone reads it? Email me or leave a review. An honest review, an honest review.
Speaker 1:And yeah. Well, listen, I I look forward to you and I being able to do this again, and I look forward to your next book, you coming back on here, we'll talk about it some more. Your next book, you coming back on here, we'll talk about it some more. Maybe we'll talk some more cake decorating, I don't know. Some more, george Strait, whatever it is, it's all good because it's been a pleasure to have you on and I just again, I can't say enough about how sweet of a person you are.
Speaker 1:So it just tickles me. It really, really does, and I hope, I just hope for great success for you from this book and all your future writings as well. I really do.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, I've just had so much fun being on the show. I'll come back anytime. Oh, that's great. Yeah, just had so much fun being on the show.
Speaker 1:I'll come back anytime. Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would absolutely be my pleasure to have you back on, so we definitely will do this again, okay, okay. So what I'm going to do here is I'm going to wrap up, but I want you to stick around, okay, I want you to stick around after I hit the stop record button and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, Okay, not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:How professional is this? And I'm doing it while we're um. See I, I just I draw back the curtain. I let everybody see what's behind the curtain.
Speaker 2:You know what. That's how I operate and, to tell you the truth, when I write, a lot of people go into a room. I have an office and I'm in here now, but when I write, I want to be in the heart of my home. I am always in the living room because I don't want to miss anything. I don't know how professional that is, but it keeps me from missing anything, you know. So, yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:But if you're not bothered by it and you're able to just keep right on going and writing, then you know that's all that matters.
Speaker 2:I usually have to wait till they go to bed, but that's okay, I can research while they're in there with me.
Speaker 1:That's great. Okay, so people, we're wrapping it up, all right. As you know, this program is available on multiple podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music and Spotify, or if you just search the Ben Maynard Program, you'll have plenty of options to choose from. Pick your option and go with it. However, if you've enjoyed a little bit of this on the visual side a little bit of this here and a little bit of that right there then you're watching on YouTube. Please subscribe to the channel, Give me a thumbs up and leave a comment. Comments are great. Last but not least, follow me on Instagram. Ben Maynard Program. All one word with that, folks, we are out. Thank you very much for spending time with us and, um, thanks again to pepper, and she is awesome. So go out and get that book. Okay, this is the Ben Maynard program. Tell a friend.