14: Bonus Episode #2 with Gabrielle Ferguson: The Roles of Envy & Coaching in Goal Achievement

Ever feel a twinge of envy and hastily swat it away? Hold that thought and join me and our guest, goal strategist Gabrielle Ferguson, as we delve into the unexpected benefits of envy. Gabrielle enlightens us with her expertise on how these pangs of envy can actually reveal the deepest desires and ambitions we've been afraid to admit we have. During our chat, we uncover how to redirect the energy of envy to propel us towards meaningful goals, particularly at life's crossroads, such as the transition to an empty nest. If you've ever found yourself envying someone else's career, health, or lifestyle, this talk will transform your perspective and guide you in aligning your goals with the person you're becoming.
 
 We also spotlight the power of coaching in dismantling fears and turbocharging your personal strategy for success. 

 Ways to contact Gabrielle: 
www.GabrielleFerguson.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabiferguson/

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Transcript

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Identifying Goals and Redefining Identity

Christina Kohl 0:03

Hi and welcome to her next chapter's podcast . I'm your host , Christina Kohl . I'm a mom of three and soon to be an empty nester . I'm also a certified HR pro who restarted my career after being a stay-at-home mom for over a decade . I created this podcast to connect with moms who have an empty nest on the horizon and are wanting to redefine their identity outside of motherhood , which might include a job search . On this show , we'll have raw conversations about our ever-changing roles as moms . We hear from women who restarted their careers and share tips for a job search after a career break . So if that's you , you're in the right place . Friend , let's get started .

Christina Kohl 0:49

In today's bonus episode from my conversation with goal strategist Gabrielle Ferguson , we discussed the role NV can have in helping us identify what's important to us and to gain clarity in our goal setting . Let's listen If someone doesn't quite . Maybe they've got a couple of goals that they want to work on , but they aren't really quite sure what they need to do for this identity shift . Like if I want , if I have health goals and I want to look a certain way , like I guess what I'm trying to get to and maybe you can help me get there , gabrielle is the point of envy ? How we can look externally for ourselves if we're struggling internally to figure out the identity . What can we do externally to help us figure out what's important to us and what's going to help us move forward towards our goals ?

Gabrielle Ferguson 1:45

I'm so glad you asked me this , christina . There are two really intriguing ways , I think , that you can shed light on your own goals and what you want and what you really want not the Disney vanilla version that you give to other people , but being really honest with yourself . There's two ways . Number one it might surprise people , but starting with envy , almost the last time you felt envious and the dictionary definition of envy is a feeling of discontented or resentful longing created by someone else's possessions , qualities or luck that feeling of discontented or resentful longing .

Christina Kohl 2:44

Now , those are some strong words to put together in a definition , well , discontent and longing . So discontent is very uncomfortable , but longing , to me , is the key word because that's like I want , that that's really telling , like if there's someone or something that you're like , gosh , I wish I had that , then that is what you're sharing . That is where we need to look towards ourselves of what it is that we want to set in the context of goals and identity and the reason no , it's fine . No , I was going to say when we see that , when we see something we want and that we are jealous of , I'm going to use another word . That's the indicator that we found it . We found the thing that is important to us .

Gabrielle Ferguson 3:35

With that definition , as you called out that word longing . That means that there is desire in there . There is something in that person , that house , that career , that job title , whatever it might be . There is something in there that we desire Because if we didn't want it , we wouldn't feel envious . We could look at the picture of the house or the person's update on LinkedIn and say , wow , good for them , that's great . Or , my goodness , good luck . I would never want to do that .

Gabrielle Ferguson 4:11

Envy is a very , very particular emotion and I think and I found personally and with my clients , it's one of the most helpful emotions that we have , because it is the way I would encourage you to think about it . Envy is an arrow that points you to what you want . It's an arrow of desire that points you to what you want . That feeling of envy . There is something in that that you actually want , and that's where it's slightly different from jealousy and it's certainly different from admiring and congratulating . There's something in it that you want . So , for example , I could look at a million mood boards and picture boards of fabulous , amazing , glamorous houses in Los Angeles , let's say , and I could scroll right by and not feel anything because I don't want to live there . Good for you , looks amazing , beautiful , always give me some design inspiration for my next house , wherever I want it , but I don't want to live there . So there's no envy , there is no desire that flashes up for me , and so I think , especially if we've got ourselves to a place of habitually talking ourselves out of what we really want a helpful , simple place to start is who or what do I envy ?

Gabrielle Ferguson 5:45

When was the last time I felt envious ? When was the last time ? The way that this can show up , you know it can be quite uncomfortable and even maybe quite ugly some of the thoughts that we have . When was the last time we have this word in the UK ? I don't know if this translates , but you felt snarky , do you know that word ? Yeah , yeah , when you felt snarky towards somebody . Right , because that might be envy in disguise .

Gabrielle Ferguson 6:12

You know we're making some cynical comments and we're rolling our eyes internally , but actually , is it envy ? Is there something in there that we think , god , I actually wish I had that , or I wish I'd been brave enough to make that leap . It might not be exactly what I want , but I wish I had the courage to X , y and Z thing change my hair color , drop the weight once and for all , change careers , you know . Quit my corporate job and do something else . Quit my corporate job to stay home . I wish I was brave enough to do that . That can actually sit underneath that emotion of envy . So that can be a really interesting place to start to work backwards from that .

Gabrielle Ferguson 6:55

Okay , what exactly is the thing ? What's the thing ? And then we , and then there might be a goal hiding in there waiting for you to find it , that you can sort of work backwards from really identifying what it is that you really want is Ask yourself this question or along these lines what change would I make ? Where I'm most frightened of other people's opinions or judgment ? Is there a change I could make ? But the thought of it brings up a real fear or resistance based on what other people would think about it .

Christina Kohl 7:45

Interesting . I thought you were going to go a different direction with that , because I've heard the question of if you couldn't fail , if you knew you couldn't fail and you could do anything at all , what would it be ? So this is , you went a different direction and you're like what would you do that would ? That was like that you couldn't fail , what would you do ? That frightened you the most . And then we're back to other people's judgment and I'm curious how do you use that ? How does that come out in a practical way ?

Gabrielle Ferguson 8:27

So your question about if you couldn't fail , I've heard before and what I found when I've tested that question with clients , when I've asked myself , is people overwhelm themselves with ideas , that the ideas about what they would do if I couldn't fail get so big and so grand that they feel either overwhelming or just completely out of reach . You know it sparks some joy for a moment . You know , for example , I'd be a black belt in karate . And then , very quickly , reality puts a pin in that balloon of that of that dream , and says yeah , but that'll take a million years to get , yeah , but I'm too old to start now . And you know we can talk ourselves down quite quickly .

Gabrielle Ferguson 9:13

But actually one of the things that , as again , as humans , going back to our evolution , that we are most afraid of is the judgment of other people , what other people will think about it , what other people will say , because that threatens our identity . And so if I again I can use myself as an example when I was seriously strategizing on leaving my corporate role and going solo and going freelance , the fear that kept me the most stuck was not to do with my capability , was not to do with , you know , paying taxes and navigating the financial side as a freelance , so it wasn't anything to do with that . One of the biggest fears I had was people will think I've made this move , made this change , because I couldn't handle it , I couldn't handle my corporate career . That was the biggest fear , which now I'm saying it out loud and I'm , you know , a year and a year and a half down the line feels very strange to me because of how much work I've done on that . But that was one of the things that put me off actually sitting down and making a plan and taking any action .

Gabrielle Ferguson 10:44

For longer than I , you know , for longer than I'd like to admit was people will think I can't handle it , they'll think I've taken the shortcut , I've taken this chicken's way out of working in corporate life was a huge thing for me because my identity as a corporate HR person that's really good at her job and really hardworking and climbs , has climbed the ranks , was such a foundational part of my identity for a really long time to then switch and do something quite different . And also , you know just , there's not very many people in my family and friend circle who are entrepreneurs either . You know I was striking out on my own to be a little bit of an island actually , and in evolutionary terms , as humans , if you did something that ostracized you from the group , you wouldn't survive . It's an evolutionary thing to be in the group for safety and security , and so it really kept me stuck , that fear of what other people might think .

Christina Kohl 11:49

How did identifying that fear help you move past it ?

Gabrielle Ferguson 11:54

Oh , great question . It was the number one lever to me . Taking the action to to leave was exploring that with my coach at the time . So it came about . I described you know I was talking about this fear and how paralyzing I was finding it . And my coach said to me okay , so talk me through literally the worst case scenario . Let's say you've left your job six months down the line , you run into someone you used to work with and you stop for a chat . What's the worst case scenario ? And I said the worst case scenario would be they say to me hey , quit your job , we want freelance . How's it going ? And my answer is I've got nothing . I've got no business , I've got no clients . I have nothing to say , nothing to talk about . That was my worst fear .

Gabrielle Ferguson 12:52

And my coach said OK , so let's say that that's happened . What would that mean to you ? What's the meaning behind that ? And for me at that time , the meaning was the fact I have nothing to say and I have no clients . That means I made a huge mistake , I failed . I'm only good at working in house , I'm only good as an HR person . I should never have left . I've made this huge error . That's , that's the weight of that meaning that it held for me .

Gabrielle Ferguson 13:28

And she got me to close my eyes and visualise that feeling . And you know what is it that came to mind ? And it's really interesting saying this , that the visualisation was a sea of nothing , so just me bobbing along in the sea , literally with nothing on the horizon . You know it was was the real articulation of that fear . So I wrote all of that down and I felt quite , you know , strong about it and quite emotional . And then she got me to reframe the whole thing , so exactly what we do with our clients , Christina . She got me to reframe it and said OK , so let's say that happened .

Gabrielle Ferguson 14:08

Let's say you've left your corporate job , you meet up with somebody three months down the line and your diary is empty . What's an alternative meaning for that ? And I couldn't find one , honestly , at that time . And then she said to me so was the goal to leave your corporate job , which was full time , Monday to Friday , nine to five or eight to six , in reality , was the goal to then work for yourself and be fully booked straight away ? Is that your goal ? And that made me sit up and take notice . That shifted everything for me , because I said , well , no , of course not . That's . There's no point going from full time in house to full time All the hours working for myself . It's the same thing .

Gabrielle Ferguson 14:54

And she said , OK , so think back to that empty diary . What else could that mean ? And I suddenly went oh , it means I'm open . I'm open to opportunities . I am flexible .

Gabrielle Ferguson 15:08

If someone says to me , gabs , we need you to go to Singapore and train some senior leaders for three weeks , hey , I've got the time and space to do that . There's room for the magic to happen . I can say yes to things that are really exciting and in the meantime , while I'm waiting for those things to come in or taking the action for those things to come in , I can have a rest and a break and the freedom and flexibility that I was seeking . I can get my nails done at two o'clock in the afternoon , I can have a bath at 11 am , I can go to the spa , I can meet a friend for lunch All the things that you can't really do when you're working full time in a general week , without taking annual leave or PTO .

Gabrielle Ferguson 15:57

And all of a sudden I thought , my God , I'm going to be in a hospital . And all of a sudden I thought , my goodness , what have I been so afraid of ? What have I been so afraid of ? It was the judgment . It wasn't really the reality . It was what will people say if they run into me and I say I've got no clients , I've got nothing , nothing going on ? What would that mean about me ? And , honestly , that was the game changer . After that , it was easy . Like I said , I started working with this coach in April I think that conversation might have happened in May and by August I had finished up my corporate job on very good terms with everybody there , you know , left all the people there and took a week or two off and then by October I was flying , you know , and it's been easier and more straightforward and more enjoyable than I ever could have imagined

Coaching Power, Overcoming Fear

Gabrielle Ferguson 16:58

.

Christina Kohl 16:58

So , yeah , that is so inspirational because I'm a little bit behind you , but that is so inspirational . I relate to it in so many ways and I'm really glad that you went there with the spaciousness , the opportunity that that empty diary we call them calendars .

Gabrielle Ferguson 17:16

Okay .

Christina Kohl 17:17

I'm like diary . That's like a personal journal , like your diary has nothing in it but Transatlantic translations , exactly . But I'm so glad that you went there because that's immediately where I went and my thoughts was , you know . But you have so much opportunity and that was honestly one of the things I enjoyed the most when I first left . My corporate position is like one I can sleep in because I'm not a morning person , and so it's not a big deal if I stay up late and I can go to the gym at nine o'clock in the morning and go take care of myself or go run an errand and not fill in . And I'm like , oh my gosh , I gotta tell the team I'm gonna be out for a little bit . I'll be back at this time , you know , and this constant , and there's different stress , if you will , but it's mine . I get to decide how hard I work , when I work , where I work , what time I work , all of that , and so there's that opportunity that that empty diary allows .

Gabrielle Ferguson 18:13

Yeah , and to just pick up a couple of things that we said Number one this is the time that I'm going to be out for a little bit . And so you said number one . This is why , if you're in this place , if this is sounding familiar to you and you're listening , I would really encourage you to consider working with somebody , because I was describing that example , new Christina , sitting there as an external person could say , could see you're open for opportunity , but because I was in it , all I could see was the risk and the fear , and I would not . I honestly , I don't think I would have got to that realization on my own and if I had , it would have taken me so much longer . It was , it was those . That's the richness of coaching , that's the benefit of it . You have somebody with an external perspective , with no agenda , to challenge your thoughts and your perceptions and ask a question in a really different way . She could see that I wasn't considering that and she got me to reframe and rearticulate it , switch the light bulb on for me .

Christina Kohl 19:19

So that really is the power of coaching , right , well , and the answer came from you . Yes , you didn't impose it on you because then you wouldn't own it . You're like yeah , yeah , yeah , whatever , but the fact that it came out of you is what made it so profound .

Gabrielle Ferguson 19:33

It came from me and she asked that's what coaching is you ? You , she listened , she , you know she'd got to know me , She'd got under my skin , that she'd got in my head and could see how I saw the world , and asked me the question that got me to look at it from a completely different perspective . And that's really hard to do when you're just in your own head all the time . That's why it's so beneficial If , if , if , now is the right time for you to get some outside help , because it accelerated my strategy , my plan and achieving my goal was so accelerated from working with her . I honestly I can't tell you how long it would have been if I'd been trying to do all of that .

Gabrielle Ferguson 20:16

I have never taken the leap because you do all this , you know risk benefit analysis and I was getting myself all caught up with questions like but I need to figure out what I'm going to do with my pension and I need to decide on my own . I need to do my pension and I need to decide on a brand , and I needed to . I was making all these over complicated systems and strategies because I was scared and actually , once I dealt with the fear , it was really easy to go . Of course , yeah , my pension is important , but that's not the first thing I have to sort out when I go freelance . I have to do that on day one or week one . I've got time , you know . It is important , but it's not a barrier to me making this change . The barrier was fear , and I'm , you know , unapologetic about sharing that , because I think we can all relate Absolutely and fear of judgment .

Christina Kohl 21:05

Yeah , absolutely , I love that . Okay , friends , that concludes the excerpt from my conversation with Gabrielle about goals for this bonus episode . I hope this was useful for you and maybe even created some aha moments . Be sure to tune in to the rest of the episodes with Gabrielle this week and to reach Gabrielle to learn about her goal strategy program , go to GabrielleFergusoncom or you can connect with her on LinkedIn . I know she'd love to hear from you . Thank you so much for listening today . I hope this episode hit home for you and if it didn't , well go easy on me I'm still figuring this all out and if you haven't already , be sure to connect with me on LinkedIn and say hello so I can personally thank you for listening . Until next time , remember , your story is uniquely your own and your next chapters are ready to begin .