How to Talk With Your Kids- Part 3

Welcome to today's episode, where we're tackling a tough but essential topic: how to talk to your kids when they're feeling sad. It's not always easy to know what to say or how to support them, especially when their sadness seems pervasive and isn't linked to a specific event. Our discussion will explore the importance of sitting with them in their discomfort, sometimes sharing silence, and allowing space for them to express their feelings at their own pace. We'll hear personal stories about the power of presence and patience, offering options rather than advice, and recognizing when to simply be there, quietly supporting your child through their emotional struggles.

Contact:
podcasts@calfarley.org 

To Donate: 
https://secure.calfarley.org/site/Donation2?3358.donation=form1&df_id=3358&mfc_pref=T

To Apply:
https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/

For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch:
https://www.calfarley.org/

Music:
"Shine" -Newsboys
CCS License No. 9402

Transcript

Effective Communication With Sad Kids

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farley's Staff Development Coordinator, joshua Sprock.

Speaker 2 0:33

Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today as we talk about talking with our kids, from day-to-day conversations all the way to more serious conversations. To do that, I'm today joined by Chloe Hewitt, our Assistant Administrator over Residential Communities.

Speaker 1 0:46

Hello.

Speaker 2 0:47

Sam Cerna, assistant Administrator over Residential Communities. Hi, josh Scott Sloan, one of our primary houseparents. Hello, and April Sloan, primary houseparent out at Boys Ranch, glad to be here. This one's a hard one for me is how do you talk to a kid who's just sad? Maybe they don't really want anything in particular, they're just down you know about life in general.

Speaker 4 1:10

How do you talk to them and get them to open up? I mean the same way I think we do with anyone in our life that's sad, is just sitting with them in the ugly, you know, I mean, sometimes it's not easy, so sometimes they need to cry and sometimes we cry with them, you know. Or sometimes we are silent because we don't know quite what to say. My sister a couple of years ago had a really good friend who had a baby and the baby only lived two days and so she called and said I don't know what to do. I don't know. I've never been through anything like that. I don't I'm not going to give a good advice. I said you got to go. She said what do you mean? Because of it, because, and she's still, and now they have babies that are two weeks apart. So her first baby and her friend had another baby and and beautiful thing. But you have to sit with them and sometimes you don't know what to say.

Speaker 4 1:54

I recently the house parents I was super close to. They had to call in hospice on him and I didn't know what to do. But I called and then she hung up crying and said she couldn't talk. But she called back a week later and we talked and I just listened and then I said all right, now tell me about your grandbabies, tell me about something that makes you happy. So sitting with them, I think, is the most important thing you can do.

Speaker 5 2:14

Yeah, we have to acknowledge that sadness is very uncomfortable. It's probably more uncomfortable than anger. I mean anger, you're hoping it'll pass, but sadness, you don't know right. And that's good advice, chloe. You know, it's just like I'm not very good at dealing with people who are sad.

Speaker 6 2:39

And I think the only thing I know to do is acknowledge it and tell them, hey, I'm sorry, and sit in silence and let them tell me if they want to. I think that, yeah, we have to. So we had a kid that he seemed sad, but mentally he was struggling, so he was depressed, and recognizing the difference between just being sad about something, because sadness can lead to depression. Anger leads to acting out, you get kind of past it and then you hopefully learn something, but sadness can lead to depression and that's even a more concerning emotion than just a simple sadness. So, like Chloe said, you got to sit with them Our first day on.

Speaker 6 3:11

When we first came here, one kid would refuse to go get in the van. I had to talk him into the van, didn't know what I was doing, but we made it work. Then the next, then the hardest kid, one of the hardest kids that's ever been on this ranch. He I took him was making him do their homework and he was having a moment about it and he went in his room and he just trashed his room. And I'm working with another kid and I could hear it going on there, but something kept me from going in that room and trying to stop that what was going on, I just something said don't go in there, let it go. And then he came out with a hoodie on and he's gone. He walked out.

Speaker 6 3:49

Of course we did our you know, call all our supervisors and stuff, but he just went down to the home. He just down the block where he'd been for when he was really young, here, and to that person that had nurtured him during that time, and she brought him back up and he and I went in his room. We started picking up the pieces and then he just grabbed me and we both slid down on the wall and just cried because he was sad, because things were changing and he doesn't know how to handle the change. So it's huge to be able to connect that sadness. You may not see him come out of it right away, but at least you connected to it.

Speaker 2 4:19

So what role does body position for instance, sitting face to face as opposed to sitting side by side play in getting kids to be open up and you can sit beside some kids after you've asked Some it's not, you don't want to do that.

Speaker 6 4:34

Some of them you can stand up with and talk and they're okay. Some of them you have to make sure you're sitting down and it's eye to eye thing for them to feel, to gain that confidence and also the gain that you're good, you're going to help them. You are the one that's going to help them. So you really have to know have a good, that right back, that relationship and all the other things that we talked about to be able to know what body language I need to give.

Speaker 4 4:58

It's so funny because it is so important. A lot of times I'll sit below a kid no-transcript, yeah and so when we come into a room, we don't feel like we are big people or any of that, but we do have a certain power, and so we have to recognize that with kids, and so I think, sitting below them or even sitting if they're standing, because you have to automatically show them, because we, as the adult, are always going to hold the power, unfortunately, unfortunately. I say that because sometimes that's difficult for kids to open up, because we always hold power.

Speaker 5 5:45

So in processing the question, is the role right? What does it play? I think it's like Mr Sloan said, it's situational, and you said, chloe, there's some inherent power. I never take any of it for granted. I always want to try to give power, especially when I'm trying to, when I'm trying to process this, because I'm trying to figure out a problem right. Oftentimes I don't actually know what the problem is. Sometimes I can't even assume what it is. So I always want to assume that I have, or that they believe I have, it right. So I want to try to make myself like as small as possible. I think this difference between sitting side by side and front face to face it's face to face can be a little more confrontational, because not everybody wants to make eye contact. Yeah, I know, when we were young we're taught hey, look at me in the eyes, right, I get that Right. But it's not really true, because sometimes eye contact is bad, or it's perceived as bad, or it means bad things. Sitting side by side gives me kind of an equality feel right.

Speaker 5 6:36

When I'm walking side by side with somebody, they're my equal, Whether they're bigger than me or smaller than me. I can at least not face to face. I can choose to make eye contact. I can look to the right, look into their eyes briefly and continue to do what I'm doing, and the only reason I want to look in the eyes is to see about some connection. Am want to look in the eyes is to see about some connection. Am I making any kind of connection?

Speaker 5 6:54

If I'm getting anywhere, I can also tell if they're sleepy or they're tired, things like that. But an occasional brief glance is okay. I think kids are comfortable with those things. But the side-by-side to me, in fact, when I try to process, I always try to if I can I can situate myself to where I would be side-by-side, or sitting on the floor oftentimes, or in a lower chair than they're sitting in or whatever. You have a lot of control in what you do. Again, I said I think the face-to-face it's okay, I think, in certain situations, but I never try to do that, especially if I'm having a difficult conversation or maybe there's some kind of de-escalation needs to be done.

Speaker 3 7:27

Yeah, I agree, sam, with the side-by-side. That's my favorite option to start with. And I also, you know, observe the kid, is he regulated? You know, I may get a fidget and start fidgeting with something myself and say, hey, would you like to get something? And you know, give them a fidget. So help them to regulate first and then start the processing with them.

Speaker 6 7:46

Yeah, and as you're positioning yourself, it's okay to have a little fun. Okay, I'm six foot, I'm not a small guy. So I've gone into situations with kids and they've been on the ground and I said I'm going to get down there with you, but you might have to help me up. I've had kids go. Oh wait a minute, sloan, don't do that, let's go over here.

Speaker 2 8:03

We've got to change the position. Ms Sloan, you mentioned working in the kitchen with the kid that just screams side by side and I imagine you probably have some pretty good conversations with them, just having that side-by-side communication in the kitchen.

Speaker 3 8:16

Oh, absolutely. I find that they just open up. And it may be. I'll say my last instance. I had a kid in there and the kids wanted breakfast burritos for dinner that night. Well, I had him cracking three dozen eggs in two different bowls and then he was taking the aluminum foil and he was, you know, tearing out the sheets of foil to wrap the burritos in. But he was talking to me and engaging and I found a lot out about his family and things that you know how talented his dad was and how he was teaching him things, and I mean it was great and I was just listening. I was, you know, engaging minimally because I wanted to hear what he had to say, because it was important to him for me to hear that. I was, you know, engaging minimally because I wanted to hear what he had to say, because it was important to him for me to hear that. So, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 5 8:58

And I don't want to take away anything from face-to-face. Also, right, I was talking in the context of maybe trying to help somebody through crisis, right, because I think what Mrs Sloan just said hey, I'm regulating, I'm teaching. When would I face a kid? You know if I'm throwing a football or I'm throwing a baseball, right, those are connecting activities. There are obviously times you're going to be face-to-face when you're teaching, when you're doing. Right, I'm talking about times of, not crisis. I just wanted to make the distinction All right.

Speaker 2 9:26

So when you're having a conversation, well, maybe let me ask you this what's the difference between a conversation and a lecture?

Speaker 5 9:32

I think a conversation is two ways. A conversation is me talking, waiting for a response, waiting patiently my turn to respond to the response. Vice versa, a lecture is me telling people what it is.

Speaker 2 9:45

It's that simple. I love giving lectures. I love just letting my daughters have it. Sometimes Just say la, la, la, it's a bad thing, it is, I know, but I feel like I've become the teacher from. Charlie.

Speaker 6 9:57

Brown pretty quick, I've just tuned completely out. A conversation is a bridge to growth. A lecture is a self-bridge.

Speaker 3 10:05

Yeah, I think even as adults, we don't want to be lectured. You know, talk to us about. You know, did we do something wrong? Okay, what do we need to do to change that? How can we make it better for ourselves either? So we don't like to be lectured as well.

Speaker 4 10:18

Well, and it's funny because we're, you know, doing a supervisor training right now, and so one of the things that I talked about recently was asking them like, so if a situation happened that didn't go well or that I probably wasn't sure about, I'm like, well, help me understand how we got to that resolution, and asking them what it was about, because I could sit there and say, hey, that was a really bad decision and I need you to do this this and this next time, or I could be curious about what led for that decision to be made, and so I think that we all want to be treated that way in times that we've made a mistake, just to have a conversation instead of being lectured.

Speaker 2 10:50

So what about the difference between offering advice versus offering options when we're having these conversations?

Speaker 4 10:56

Ask if they want your advice. I think is always the key.

Options and Waiting

Speaker 6 11:00

Yeah, and it's power. Yeah, if you give advice, you have the power. If you ask for their ideas, then they have joint power with you.

Speaker 5 11:08

I was thinking about the word advice. Does it come from advisory? Because an advisory is a statement that I'm making, that's telling you what it is right. I'm advising you to X, y, z. An option is maybe me exploring with somebody Well, what might you do there? What might you do there? What might you do there? Because sometimes people don't think they have options. But as you explore things, well, what have you tried? We talk about these things all the time, but they might come up with some things that they can do and now they know oh well, okay, I got choices. And what do choices give us? Power? Power and advice doesn't give any power. Right, advice is based on my experience and what I've done, but they're not me.

Speaker 4 11:44

Well, and I think what's powerful is I mean, I have had a situation where I said, hey, what would you do? Because I was willing for the feedback, Right. And so if they ask, or if you say, hey, do you want my advice? And if they say no and then say, OK, I'm willing, just that's, that's fine, I'm willing to give you advice if you ever want it. And then they could come back like two weeks later and say, hey, what do you think about that? It allows again the power and then you know some, some feedback if they want it.

Speaker 6 12:09

And you got to understand. I think, at least for me I got to understand where I'm at with the mind of the kid I'm with Because, like for the middle school group and probably younger, you can't go in and there's certain things that we, like we are trained. That doesn't really work great because they can't connect those some of the dots. So you have to help them through options and give them the power to lead them into the decision. But they aren't really coming up with the decision. You have to lead them kind of to it with options because you can give them well, what if we did this? Well, what if we did this? And they're just like oh yeah, I want to do that. You know, it's really easy.

Speaker 5 12:59

There must be something to advice versus options, because anytime I give advice, I think most of the time people don't do what I say right and I'm like well, like I said earlier, yeah, I just gave you the roadmap. Man, there it is. I just told you what to do because that worked for me and my personality traits and my history, right, and I know, but I I now I try to find a way to get turn my advice into maybe options. But I think it's all about exploring with them what they have and what capabilities they have, so that they can come up Because an option if it fails, they got still maybe more choices, right, but if I give advice and it fails, it's just my fault.

Speaker 1 13:25

Yeah.

Speaker 6 13:26

Well, think about advice. Advice is like Sam had said, is you telling them your thought and it's not them getting anything really back of it, and they may be sitting there mind thinking well, that's, that didn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 13:38

That's stupid you know all right. So why might it be a potential landmine to place value judgments on the options that kids come up like, telling them, oh, that's a good idea or no, that's a bad idea?

Speaker 4 13:49

because they might do the bad idea just because, you said no, don't do that idea, which I mean how bad that's also judge it Like is someone going to get hurt or is it going to cause them to be in severe trouble or hurt themselves? All those things are what you could outweigh. But a lot of times we go through a process with them and if they choose a bad option, role playing with hey, what? So how do you think that conversation might look and what could be the outcome? Or how will that? What will happen next? Or what do you think? And then a lot of times they'll talk themselves out of the bad idea because you've processed with them but you're not saying hey, don't do it. You're just saying what is that gonna look like? So that way they can kind of see that there could be consequences or repercussions of the situation.

Speaker 5 14:30

Because you got to remember, when you're talking to angry people, they're not always thinking the best way. So I really like what you said there, chloe, about role playing that bad option with them. Okay, how might that conversation look, or how might that fight look, or whatever, right, and they sometimes can think through oh yeah, that might not work out for me. Yeah, because sometimes when you tell people it's a bad idea or don't do it, the lack of power can be well, I'm going to get power, I can do that. You know, it's really weird because you're not dealing with sophisticated people. When they're mad, all right, you cannot be sophisticated, you don't have, and I and I that's why they'll.

Speaker 5 15:03

It's more likely they're gonna try a large muscle movement thing, like go fight somebody because they're in an emotional brain. Uh, when you role play, you're getting them into the, into the frontal lobe area. Right when I put a value on, hey, that's a great idea, though, on the other hand, oh man, do that here the thing? I have to also role play that because I don't know their skill set. Can they actually manage a conversation that they're going to go have in an apology or whatever they're going to go do? Can they actually manage it? How would I know that I might role play it? Yeah, and I don't actually absolutely not going to put value, because then you said it was a did, that it would be. Yeah, I cannot know how that conversation is going to go or how the other person is going to react to it.

Speaker 5 15:43

So I can never say that's a 100% great idea or 100% bad idea and it's got to be their idea either way.

Speaker 2 15:49

So what if a kid is in complete shutdown mode and they're just not wanting to talk? Should you force a child to talk? Who's refusing to?

Speaker 4 15:55

No, I think the most powerful thing that you can do is wait them out and if they're also, if they're safe and not doing anything harmful, just let them have. Space is what I think. But you know, recently our supervisor one of our newest supervisors had a situation on call where this kid wanted a special cookie that his grandmother had made and the house parents said no, you already passed snack time, you already passed snack time. You're not getting it. So she gets called over there. Because he said he's not going to his room until he does it. So she's new. And so she. You know, eventually, I think she caved, gave him the cookie. So the next morning she says, hey, I want, I want your. So should we go through all of it? And she said, okay, what's your feedback? And I said you want my feedback.

Speaker 4 16:33

And she said yes and I can say this because I have the same background that the house parent could believe that you're always going to choose the child, and so you have a double-edged sword at your disadvantage, that you have to pay attention to the situation and know that you've got to cater to both. It's not just about the child, it's about the staff. And so I said well. She said well, what would you have done? I said wait it out. She said I've already been there 30 minutes. I said wait longer.

Speaker 4 16:58

So you know and it was. You know she teared up as we had this conversation and then later she, two hours later, said hey, thanks for the feedback. But I say this because two weeks went by and she had another situation where the kid was superheated at a different place and she waited him out and it took her two and a half hours, but the kid turned the phone over to her and it all worked out. And so I think there is some power in sitting with a kid and sitting in the uncomfortable and then or just saying hey, I'm here when you're ready to talk. I've done that too.

Speaker 5 17:25

So what do you all think? Why do you all think people are not willing to wait things out?

Speaker 4 17:29

Because they're selfish.

Speaker 5 17:31

Right, they're busy. Because you're busy, right, in the case that Chloe was talking about, you know when I was an on-call supervisor? Well, you're getting called out of your comfortable house to go deal with something that's not going to be fun and you want it to end. Right, you want it to end. And, as a parent, even I want this tantrum to stop. I want, maybe I need, to figure out the problem. I can't figure out the problem. They're just sitting here and not telling me anything. You know, but the more you fight it, I think, and also I think it's highly disrespectful. I think they're asking for space.

Speaker 5 18:01

Basically, the other part is we got to remember it's not about me. I don't think I'm being ignored intentionally, especially if it's my child and I got a good relationship. If they don't want to talk to me, there's a reason for it, right, and things I say is hey, I can see you're not talking to me right now. I'm going to step back over here. I got to go do this, but I'm going to come check on you, like every five minutes or whatever it is. I'm going to come check on you just so you know that I'm here and if you, if you do need to talk about it. I'd love to hear you out and if and you know there's been times it's never come and that's fine and then we just move on and we're okay, and there's times I got to handle it and I can't leave until it's done.

Understanding and Respecting Silence

Speaker 4 18:31

And that's okay too. We moved him homes. He would not open up with the new set of house parents. And so one day that I was over there for dinner, the house parents had cooked for me and my staff and I went over and they said, hey, will you go talk to him? He's not. He shut down his room and I went in there and I said, hey, and I'm trying, and he wouldn to talk to you. And so I said okay, and I went over there and talked to him and then but the beautiful thing about that is he has a safe enough space now that he is talking to those staff every day. And the other day he got in trouble for not doing dishes and he went in there and had a calm situation and he's actually thriving. And so there is beauty that comes out of it when you're ready to step back and allow for space.

Speaker 6 19:20

There's no greater level of showing respect, confidence and love than to be able to walk out of especially for a man to be able to walk out of a kid or even an adult that does not want to process or talk to you and give them all kinds of space. I think that is. That is a huge message and, like Chloe said, you may not say it for a week and a half, but you're talking without talking.

Speaker 2 19:42

I always wonder what's going on when they're in shutdown mode, like sometimes I think people assume that it's disrespect, that they're not wanting to talk to you. But what I really think it is they're so overwhelmed with feelings and emotions but they don't have the words for those feelings and emotions yet. And that's kind of what they're doing in shutdown mode is they're sorting those things out internally and if you give them the space, kind of like what y'all said, is they find those words. And then, once they find those words, it may be a day, maybe a couple of days, like that one situation, but they will seek us out more often than not.

Speaker 5 20:11

I think also, if it's your kiddo and you know everything and their history, that's maybe a good thing. You might know why, why, or you might can deduce what's going on. But if you, if you're dealing with maybe an adopted kid or anything, that you don't have a complete history, there's lots of reasons people don't talk right. Um, well for me, right, uh, even today I mean now I'm learning now to open up as a 46 year old man to open up and I find that it's more easier for me to express my things and I get more value and I get what I want faster or I get help faster. But I was taught hey, that's, you know, you don't, you don't just. Men don't talk like that, men don't open up right Things like that.

Speaker 5 20:44

Very big stereotype. Also, some people lose their cool, so it's better that they clam up and things aren't going to go well for the adults around me if I'm not, if I say something y' and there's no trust there. That's something we'll earn, like, I think, scott said. I think we need to earn that part. There's lots of reasons people do not open up, especially kids.

Speaker 6 21:07

I think the big word is fear, and Sam just alluded to it. They're afraid because they've done it before and it didn't go well, so now they're afraid to let it go. They're afraid that if they say something and others hear that's going to get bad. So there's so much fear in them and you just have to let them work through that fear to where now they feel like okay, it's like that, kid, I'm ready, I can do this now.

Brain Based Parenting Information and Support

Speaker 5 21:35

I think the biggest thing for us to remember is it's not about us, unless I know that I caused the conflict and they're ignoring me on purpose, because I just had a negative interaction. That's one thing. But I got to remember my ego has to be aside. If a person's not ready to talk, it's not about me. I should not become angry about that. In fact, like I said, we've already beat it up, but I think just continuing to be patient and it's about them. They'll come when they're ready, All right.

Speaker 2 22:01

Thank you all for joining us today and hopefully you can process all this information until next week. Remember you might have to loan out your front of lobes today. Just make sure you remember to get them back.

Speaker 1 22:12

Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch, are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit calfarleyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Farley's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.