Have you ever wondered how frequent relocations and embracing discomfort can shape a person’s career and life philosophy? In this episode of the Changemakers podcast, our guest Noah Hoffman, an accomplished investor, financial expert, and serial entrepreneur, shares his extraordinary journey from a cook's son to a successful business leader. Noah's diverse experiences living in various cities and countries give him a unique lens through which he views the world, offering invaluable insights into the human condition and the pivotal role of kindness in communication. His story is one of perseverance, integrity, and the relentless pursuit of truth.
Noah delves into how his childhood relocations fostered introspection and resilience, using powerful analogies from the intense training of samurais and Navy SEALs to emphasize the value of enduring discomfort. He reflects on the significance of making bold decisions, such as moving to Kuala Lumpur and enduring the rigors of investment banking, as vital steps to achieving financial success and personal growth. Through his experiences, Noah illustrates the transformative power of accepting and embracing the unknown, and how these experiences have shaped his ability to make tough decisions both in business and personal life.
In our conversation, Noah also tackles the transformative power of honesty and self-respect. He discusses pivotal moments like ending a misaligned relationship and making hard business decisions, underscoring the importance of unyielding honesty coupled with kindness. Additionally, Noah offers practical financial wisdom, cautioning against insecurity-driven spending and advocating for financial transparency. He shares insights from his own journey toward financial clarity, emphasizing the importance of smart investments and the real value of money. Join us to learn how Noah’s approach to truth, self-respect, and financial clarity can guide you towards a truly fulfilling life.
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IG: @matthewpaetz
Start Here to Find Out - What's Blocking You From Making Your First $100k?
Have you ever wondered how frequent relocations and embracing discomfort can shape a person’s career and life philosophy? In this episode of the Changemakers podcast, our guest Noah Hoffman, an accomplished investor, financial expert, and serial entrepreneur, shares his extraordinary journey from a cook's son to a successful business leader. Noah's diverse experiences living in various cities and countries give him a unique lens through which he views the world, offering invaluable insights into the human condition and the pivotal role of kindness in communication. His story is one of perseverance, integrity, and the relentless pursuit of truth.
Noah delves into how his childhood relocations fostered introspection and resilience, using powerful analogies from the intense training of samurais and Navy SEALs to emphasize the value of enduring discomfort. He reflects on the significance of making bold decisions, such as moving to Kuala Lumpur and enduring the rigors of investment banking, as vital steps to achieving financial success and personal growth. Through his experiences, Noah illustrates the transformative power of accepting and embracing the unknown, and how these experiences have shaped his ability to make tough decisions both in business and personal life.
In our conversation, Noah also tackles the transformative power of honesty and self-respect. He discusses pivotal moments like ending a misaligned relationship and making hard business decisions, underscoring the importance of unyielding honesty coupled with kindness. Additionally, Noah offers practical financial wisdom, cautioning against insecurity-driven spending and advocating for financial transparency. He shares insights from his own journey toward financial clarity, emphasizing the importance of smart investments and the real value of money. Join us to learn how Noah’s approach to truth, self-respect, and financial clarity can guide you towards a truly fulfilling life.
Connect with Me
IG: @matthewpaetz
Start Here to Find Out - What's Blocking You From Making Your First $100k?
In this episode of the Changemakers podcast, we sit down with Noah Hoffman. Noah is a seasoned investor, a financial expert and a serial entrepreneur. He was co-founded, the seven-figure real estate investment company, and he's only 32 years old. In this episode, noah shares the story of how telling the truth was the catalyst to becoming a man whom he respected, and how making difficult decisions is what led to his success in both business and relationships. He also shares the biggest financial mistake people make, and has nothing to do with money. I hope you get as much out of this conversation with Noah as I did and, if so, please follow, share and leave a review so that more people can learn how to live a more meaningful and authentic life. Enjoy. So, noah, welcome to the Changemakers podcast.
Speaker 1:This show is on a mission to really inspire those who feel called to do something more with their lives. You know, create, understand how to create the lives they want so that they can actually leave the jobs they hate. And as much as this is a conversation about a lot of different topics, the theme of this is really to help inspire those that are feeling stuck or they're feeling trapped inside of a career or an environment that they just fucking hate, right, and it's my belief that no one should have to work a job they hate just to get by and that's not saying that you don't ever have to work jobs you hate to get by but it is certainly my belief that it is not someone's destiny, or should be their, uh, their forever place in life to feel stuck, uh, but rather, you know, identify ways that, uh, they can really take responsibility and start creating the life that they ultimately feel called to live. And there is no one better, in my opinion, to talk to about many of the things and the challenges and the necessities and to do that than yourself. So, with that being said, sir Noah, I know you to be a serial entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:Sir Noah, I know you to be a serial entrepreneur. I know you to be an extremely intelligent person that takes a lot of care and concern for making sure that he not only is above board and always above integrity, but, you know, does things in a way that he, you know he can stand on and believe in. And I also know you to be someone that doesn't mince his words. So, if you recognize an opportunity to improve something, you will make sure that the individual in many cases me, is made aware, and that is quite literally, one of the things that I love about you the most is that you, uh, you lead with your truth, but you know because you care.
Speaker 1:So, with all of that, I know that's kind of a random introduction, but I'd love to toss you the baton and hear a little bit about you know, for those that don't know who noah hoffman is, or you know, what would give him the, uh, the authority to to speak on some of the topics that we're going to dive into today. I'd love to hear from you what would you want a complete stranger to know before we launch into the conversation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. I mean, first of all, those are really really kind things. They feel very nice to hear. And yeah, I'm very grateful for your friendship. I've talked about you a number of times. I can't count. I've told a number of my friends, I can't count, how proud I am to be your friend and to this day I treasure you deeply. So hearing those things matters a ton To me. I think what I would want a stranger to know is a little bit about my background logistically, which is yeah.
Speaker 2:I grew up and, to this day, I've never lived anywhere. I'm 32 years old. I've never lived anywhere longer than four years, depending on how you define living somewhere, whether it's a month or six months. I've lived anywhere between 12 and 14 cities, places whatever. I've lived in every time zone in the United States, I've lived in Asia, I've lived in London, I've lived in Spain.
Speaker 2:I therefore and I come from a family of people with a broad base of immigrant background and broad acceptance for others, having moved that many times I've seen the or I've seen part of the mosaic that is humanity, and I recognize that if you're walking through Washington Square Park in New York or on Hollywood Boulevard in LA, or in the center of Tokyo or in the heart of London, you've got all these people, thousands, walking by you, and every single one of them, every single one of them, has the same or more degree of fear, dreams, problems, concerns, love and self-loathing sometimes, and self-love, as we do.
Speaker 2:And I've been very privileged to be around so many different types of people from so many different backgrounds, and I think I approach every conversation with somebody with the kindness and the care that I would hope somebody would to me, but I have the perspective that the same lifestyle that I've led probably isn't the lifestyle that the person I'm talking to is led, and so by having that perspective, it allows me to level with people a little bit more easily than others can, where I think people apply their worldview implicitly to their thought process and therefore their communication style, which can block a lot of people out of a lot of conversations, because I think a lot of people hear others speak to them in a manner that says I don't really care where you're from, I don't really care what your background is, I don't really care what's going on with you, but here's what I want you to know, and I really avoid that, and I'm very privileged to have moved that many times. My dad worked for Marriott.
Speaker 2:He started out as a cook one of the lowest levels in any hotel and worked his way up to be one of the foremost members of that company, helped build it and he worked really hard. I didn't see him a whole lot when I was a kid. He was a great dad. I love him. I tell him that he's one of my best friends today. Truly, I'm so proud of him. But it's hard. It is hard to build a career. There are tough decisions, and so that's.
Speaker 2:The other thing I would want somebody to know about me is that I've made a lot of hard choices. I've disappointed people. I'm by no means perfect and I have been by no means perfect. I'm. I'm. I'm fortunate to have been around great role models who have steered me in a direction where now I'm very proud of who I am.
Speaker 2:I could not always say that and I have a lot of empathy for people who are at a point in their life where that's not true. And I understand that life is truly, and I know that this is oversaid, but it is a journey and it's the phase of that journey that we're in. We have to have some empathy for and some kindness for ourselves, because it's simply not true that every part of that journey is going to be glamorous or fun or easy. And so your point about people who are in a job that they hate. I would do my very best to draw as much positivity from that phase of their life as possible, and if the only ounce of positivity one can draw is I'm building a financial base so that I can not be here, then let that be the thing, and there's a lot of branches that go from that trunk. Those sometimes involve hard decisions. They involve not taking vacations for many years, which I did. They involve not buying nice things basically forever, which I don't. They involve not buying nice things basically forever, which I don't. They involve doing the research and being honest with oneself about what they really know, as opposed to appeal to authority or appeal to the media, which I think most people tend to do when it comes to gathering information, and so there's a lot to unpack about how to look at the bright side, so to speak, but I do, and I think that that to to add, one third thing about me that I'd want people to know is that when I was born, I was born with a birth defect called a trachea esophageal fistula, and when I was born, my trachea and my esophagus were switched.
Speaker 2:So your esophagus is where food goes down into your stomach, your trachea is where you breathe through, and so mine were switched, so food would go into my lungs and I couldn't breathe Problems. And so when you're in the womb, babies ingest amniotic fluid. If I had done that and it's an unconscious thing, but if little baby Noah had done that, I would have gotten pneumonia and died, as most babies at the time in 1998 or 1991, did, when you had my specific type of this birth defect. And so throughout my whole life I've been in the hospital. I have kind of chronic acid reflux as a result and I eat really healthy and I cook and I do all these things. But I have been in the hospital in dire straits and I think I have an appreciation for what that did to me. It gave me a unbridled sense of optimism. I can imagine I've been given a gift, I won the lottery and I'm not going to waste it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's probably what I want people to know about me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's absolutely amazing, and you said a few things that really stick out to me, which was you made hard decisions and the other thing which was you made hard decisions and the other thing that really stuck out was the amount of times that you moved, and what I would love to know, just on that point, is what is your? So let me say it this way first so one of the strongest aversions that human beings have is to change right. It's one of the most difficult things for any human being to consciously do right, because you are.
Speaker 2:I think that people have a strong aversion to the unknown, and that's what change represents right.
Speaker 1:But god, no, you're absolutely right, because I'm going to say, like what it is is leaving what is most familiar for what is, you know, essentially uncertain, and you know that seems to be something that you have been able to. I wouldn't just say navigate well, but it almost seems like change and uncertainty has kind of been your familiar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that in large part stems from having moved around so much.
Speaker 2:When I was a kid, my parents would say, okay, we're moving, Like you have no choice. It's not like we're like hey, noah Jared, like are you okay? Like dad got a new job but you don't have to come, like no, it was like we're moving here. And it allowed I mean it encouraged two things. One it allowed me to be introspective, because when I moved to a different place, particularly in middle school and high school, I would recognize parts of myself, how I was viewed, decisions I had made, behavior I had adopted in the former place, and said you know, I really don't like how that was received and I don't like how I felt about myself. I think I have an opportunity to change that and so the change part of it, though like, oh my God, what's going to happen if I act a different way or behave this way or say this thing? I got a chance to test that and that was and that was a great gift that I was given.
Speaker 2:I also. I was also forced to make new friends and to be in the unknown I traveled to after I lived in New York and after living in New York for two years, I decided I was going to have a massive change of scenery and I moved to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and I studied to teach yoga and knew no one. I found out later when I got there that it was a Muslim country, which was not the smartest idea on my part, but I lived and not the smartest idea?
Speaker 1:why?
Speaker 2:Oh, because I'm Jewish, but and because I was an idiot, I would like run through Koala, through like areas that you should not go in any condition, much less an american jewish looking guy with his shirt off like this is not smart, right so I'm probably a little bit too comfortable with the unknown, to be honest.
Speaker 2:It's led me to here, so I'm alive, but the real opportunity in that example was dive into a really uncomfortable, really unknowable environment, and those types of experiences consistently have risen my comfort with the unknown and with discomfort. There's a Japanese tradition which I might be butchering the way this is pronounced and I might be butchering the story behind it.
Speaker 2:So apologies to anybody who knows this better, but there's a tradition called the Misogi, and the Misogi is how the samurai would train. It was part of their last kind of like quasi hell week of becoming a samurai, and what they would do my understanding is is they would be forced to stand underneath a waterfall for 24 hours and it was excruciating the mentality behind it, the theory was as a samurai.
Speaker 2:this would put you in such a state of mind that you survive this. You can survive anything. It raised your bar for pain and for perseverance so high that you could make it through anything. And that metaphor has been echoed by the Navy SEALs, by every major kind of military organization, and it's also been adopted by lots of fitness people and self-help people, all kinds of things like that. And I adopted that mentality in New York. I climbed a mountain with a friend of mine who actually would end up going into the SEALs. I went to Malaysia. I did investment banking. I worked in investment banking for two years. That was a Misogi, that was a waterfall for 24 hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like.
Speaker 1:I was in college For 24 months, technically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was like what's the basically what's the hardest thing I can do coming out of school? And I was like what's the basically what's the hardest thing I can do coming out of school? What's the most miserable, difficult but probably educational experience I can have? And I was interested in public policy and finance at the time, so that's what seemed to me to be kind of the hardest thing. And then I did it and then you know you've done that for two years and first of all, you have this immediate relationship with anybody else who's done, because it's really it's.
Speaker 2:It's miserable, um, and it taught me the level of, or the degree of which, or the degree of work work I could go to. I could work till midnight. I could work till 1, 2 am, 3 am and wake up at 8 and do it again every single day for weeks. I can pull three all-nighters in a row and not sleep for three days and still be really smart. I can do it. There's no doubt in my mind because I was forced to and I accepted it.
Speaker 2:I think that's been a big crutch for me, as I've thought about how to be successful financially and kind of like the truth of the matter of life, which is that there's no shortcuts, there's no easy roads, and all that matters is kind of like knowing what you're capable of, which is a hell of a lot.
Speaker 1:Right. Yeah, this is really interesting and we'll get to to the finance piece in a minute, because that's something I definitely want to lean into. But you know, I've done a few of these interviews now and spoken to people that you know, various levels of success as far as, like you know, the public appearances and, uh, it's very interesting how each person that I've spoken to has the same, they kind of they have the same through line to their story and that is, it comes down to their relationship to discomfort, right, where, and as you're describing this, you know from literally birth, right, you were born into challenge, right, and, quite frankly, born into the impossible, right, and doctors, but, yeah, right, but still, you know, you're born into something where the odds are stacked against you, right Now, doctor, saved you. Well that I find that that's true in life in general. Right, life is a team sport, right, and the, but the notion that you lean into discomfort.
Speaker 1:And you said something another word that I thought was extremely powerful that you may not even have recognized, which is. You said the word accept. You may not even have recognized, which is. You said the word accept.
Speaker 1:I accepted the challenge versus trying to avoid it or work around it or outsmart it or any of these kinds of things that the majority of us typically do and I say majority because I definitely was one of them, and it's something that I consistently find that I'm still checking myself on to this day is, you know, having the courage to make to do the hard thing consciously, instead of avoiding the hard thing, only for life to get really difficult and forcing you to do whatever you have to do to make it work. And you know, that's what I really. If there's anything I would want someone to take out of this conversation and this, this podcast in general, is, you know to be able to identify how to do the hard thing before you're forced to, or worse, do the hard thing so that you don't regret never doing the real things that you wanted. Right, and I also think it's.
Speaker 2:I also think it's. It's a matter of practice and preparation, doing the hard thing, even if it's a small thing. Even if it's a small thing, even if it's repeatedly making your bed every day, even if it's getting out and doing a 15 minute workout, even if it's deciding that once a week you're going to eat vegan that day, whatever it is or vegetarian.
Speaker 2:You like cheese, because I want cheese, I got it. And so there are a million ways that we can inject discipline into our lives, that we can inject discipline into our lives and that prepares us for when there may be some higher risk or more important discipline required.
Speaker 1:I love this. Are you a coach who has been struggling to do everything yourself? I mean all of the content, the emails, the marketing, not to mention, every time you open your phone, there's a new social media strategy that someone is pitching. That just makes you feel like you'll never be able to keep up, when all you really care about is helping people in a meaningful way, while building the kind of coaching business your family can depend on. I'm Matthew Pates, the founder of Momentum can depend on.
Speaker 1:I'm Matthew Pates, the founder of Momentum, a growth agency that specializes in helping coaches, just like you, break through your first 100K. If you're a coach who is tired of trying to figure it all out themselves and you just want to build a business that works, then I'm going to encourage you to click the link in our show notes to take your 100K coaching assessment to find out if you're ready to unlock your six-figure potential today. So let me ask you this this is kind of random. When you think back of all the decisions that you had to make right, the tough decisions, the hard decisions, as you described earlier what would you say came first? Is it courage or confidence?
Speaker 2:I guess I guess probably confidence, but I don't personally know the dictionary definition difference between the two. They're very similar but I think that diff. Like difficult decisions, like life decisions, like to leave a company or to leave a business partner or to leave a relationship or to give up a ton of money. Those are the hard decisions I'm talking about. They start small, they bubble up. Those aren't just split decisions that get made with no backstory, just split decisions that get made with no backstory. They evolve and there's a process of coming to terms with the truth of the universe that that decision needs to be made in order for me to be happy. And so, yeah, I guess it's probably a combination of courage and confidence.
Speaker 2:But I think that the most important thing is that I respected myself at the end of the day. At the beginning of the day, I really didn't. I didn't respect myself because if I had then, when those underlying issues where I accepted treatment of myself by others in a way that ultimately was totally unfair, gaslighting, abusive, I wouldn't have let that happen. But because I didn't respect myself to the degree that I now do or to the degree that I did when I ended up changing those relationships and I ended up changing those relationships. That was a, it was a evolution, and it was a growth of confidence and a growth of self-love. So I think it was a little bit of both.
Speaker 2:There's always courage required to make risky, uncertain decisions, but that courage is lessened over time as we get more and more information about how bad a situation that we're in is and how much we dread it. It doesn't take a whole lot of courage, I think, to get out of those relationships or out of those business deals, or out of those educational institutions or out of those jobs, if we've endured enough pain and if we've actually taken that pain and channeled it into growth. Unfortunately, there are other factors, like money, that tie people to those situations, and that's where those decisions get real tricky, and I've been. I've walked away from five figures, not just ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollars, more than that, and not at a time when I had all. And that's what a hard decision means. Yeah, that's what it means.
Speaker 1:What was the moment that you became someone that you respected?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I think the first time I broke up with a girl, I think I did it with kindness, I think I did it thoughtfully, and I think I did it because I knew that it wasn't right for me and it wasn't right for her, and at the end of that.
Speaker 2:you know I've never done that. I felt that I did the right thing. I did a hard thing, real easy to just like stick in that relationship. It was a comfortable relationship. It was like a COVID relationship and it was uncomfortable. I knew it wasn't right, but it was. It was a easy relationship to stay in. So I was proud of myself for doing that. And I then became proud of myself when I first had to fire an employee. That was hard, that was scary.
Speaker 1:What about that made you feel proud?
Speaker 2:That again I spoke to the truth of my and her situation. I didn't obscure from the reality that these are the behaviors that I've seen. I would ask based on these behaviors, do you think this has been fair to me as your employer? I would ask based on these behaviors, should I believe that you're happy in this role? I would ask based on these behaviors, do you think you deserve a raise? If you were me, what would you do here?
Speaker 2:And that started uncomfortable. There were some tears, but as I let it settle, as I sat with her and in that situation, the truth came out and it became apparent to both of us though it was to me earlier that this simply wasn't right, and moving on was what she actually wanted. She was happy, she walked away from that with relief and she was relieved because the truth got met. Maybe there's a more eloquent way of saying that, but the truth got met. Maybe there's a more eloquent way of saying that, but the truth was met.
Speaker 2:And so I became proud of myself when I started to make my bar unyielding honesty, both myself, with business partners, with romantic partners, with family members, with friends, coupled with an unbridled kindness in my communication with those people. That is the broader framework that I'm proud of, because there's a great quote by Oscar Wilde I think it's Oscar Wilde that said an honest man doesn't have to remember anything and I think it's just such a beautifully true and succinct way of explaining why the truth matters, because if we live that way, then the right things will happen, whatever the right things are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. This is really amazing because in every conversation, there's always one theme that really sticks out for the individual that I think is transformative for me, in moment that you became a man you respected was the moment you made the hard decision to tell the truth, and everything that you described you described a a moment, an intersection, where you had to make the decision to either be honest, right or avoid something.
Speaker 1:Right, whether it was a decision altogether, or whether it was to appease the other person or to appear. You know whatever it is that you were trying to protect about yourself, right, but instead you know whatever it is that you were trying to protect about yourself, right, but instead you, you learned how to tell the truth because you care, right, you care enough, not just about yourself, but what I hear is like cause you lead. You lead with the respect that you have for yourself, right, and you know. It brings me back to something. I believe it was the I forget the gentleman's name now, but it was the founder of AA yeah, alcoholics Anonymous and he says something to the effect of no change is possible until you tell the truth, right, and I think this is is relevant in any, in any inflection point in someone's life. But, like you were saying, there's a I feel like that tension that builds up inside of us, right. Where we know a change must be made or a thing must be said, is really the feeling of you know an unsaid truth making itself undeniable, right? We can't avoid it any longer and, like you said, in most cases, or in many cases, we get to a place where the pain becomes so great that courage is no longer the thing that we need most. It's just being honest with ourselves. But something else that you said that I think is really important was you learned? My guess is through trial and error, but you learned how to tell the truth and be kind at the same time.
Speaker 1:That's not something that a lot of people equate to to truth or being honest. Because of this, you know you hear this, the phrase, all the time brutal honesty and then I heard someone else say it differently like brutal honesty is still brutal. You know, when you're working with people, especially around things as sensitive as intimacy and, by the way, intimacy is, you know, physical relationships right, intimate relationships as well as financial relationships right, they're both very intimate relationships. So, whether you're breaking up with a partner or you're parting ways with an employee or a business partner, you are. It's a very intimate relationship, and to be able to speak your truth while holding space for theirs, right, is is a skill that I don't know that many have. We'll just leave it at that. That many have, and, because of that, not many of us have an example of what that even looks like. So what was it for you going into that? What?
Speaker 2:was it for you going into that, that you you reached a point where you could no longer, um, accept not telling the truth. Well, it wasn't. You know, I'm gonna have to think. What do you mean by like the point at which I could not accept not telling the truth?
Speaker 1:I think it's this way, truth. I think it's this way. You know there's. What I'm hearing is less about appearing successful or appearing smart or keeping up or proving right. Appearing and proving often go hand in hand, right? So that, like top end of the spectrum of what we want others to perceive us as our potential, our greatness, our successes, what makes us impressive, versus what I hear you describing, when you say you made the hard decisions to begin telling the truth and being honest, not just with other but with self, what I hear is that is a practice of raising your standards, right? So I guess that's really the question I'm asking is when did it become your standard? When did telling the truth become the new standard? When was that more important than the appearance of think? It matters for way more people than you might think I think.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, social media is a cancer to our society I haven't heard much about it yeah, tell me more. It's this mock TikTok.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's this thing? I'm not really sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I lived in LA. That was where we met. And you know I worked in a fancy finance job, had a big salary, started a clothing company, rubbed shoulders with celebrities, rubbed shoulders with celebrities. And that was born that decision to start a clothing company and be in the limelight and try out that sphere came from a sense of insecurity and a itch to know are those people who we see on tv or on social media with a ton of followers? Are they really that special are?
Speaker 2:they really that amazing. Do they know all these things that no, none of us else, not you know, no one else knows, and long story short no they don't um they're really good at a couple things.
Speaker 2:They're extraordinary at one or two things and that's amazing, that's wonderful they're. You know, if there's the bell curve of humanity, they're far on one end of it for one or two reasons. But the decision to be around those people and to value being seen, that came from a sense of insecurity, that came from where, when I was a kid, I didn't feel seen and recognizing that took years of therapy.
Speaker 2:Now, along that path I suffered greatly because I let people treat me in a way that was inhumane, that was despicable, that was brutal, and I shouldn't have done that. It was unkind to myself. But coming to that realization, as hard as it was, was also freeing, and that's what led me to those hard choices. That's what led me to my obsession with the truth as opposed to what gets seen, because I saw behind the curtain. I wanted to be there. I was curious if the being seen and the appearance and all that was actually as rewarding as I thought, and it's not. I was privileged to get to see that firsthand as I thought, and it's not. I was privileged to get to see that firsthand, and ever since then I've been very privileged to work alongside a business partner who is brilliant.
Speaker 2:He can be brutal but, he is one thing above all else he is honest. He really likes to be right. He really likes to be right and, to his credit, he's right a lot, and I'm very privileged to get to work with him. But I've learned a great deal from him. I've learned a great deal from other investment minds and logical people and I'm not actually logical or inherently focused on A plus B equals C. I'm a much more emotionally driven person. I have adopted logic as my mantra, and logic and truth go hand in hand.
Speaker 2:Those are kind of the same things and truth go hand in hand. Those are kind of the same things, and what I've realized is that navigating through our world doesn't feel comfortable. It is only comfortable when we are good at it. And in order to be good at it, we have to be honest and we have to be thoughtful, and we have to navigate our decisions based on the truth. And there's no way, there's no way to do it successfully aside from that, and and yeah, that's why I choose to do it- yeah, I love this.
Speaker 1:It's like the one thing we're good at isn't life, but it's taught is being honest, and if we could be honest, we can get good at being honest. Then our lives tend to to get better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think if we're humble enough to ask for guidance and we're humble enough to know what we really want, we'll get there. I think the problem that a lot of people run into is they don't go after what they really want. They go after what their parents want, they go after what their friends or their spouses or their sisters or whatever whoever want, and then that leads them to a position where they're like damn, I'm doing all this stuff and I'm not happy because it's not what I really want. And in order for me to extricate myself from that situation, there are all these people who I'm now going to disappoint.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that brings up change, that brings up anxiety, that brings up fear, and decisions made out of anxiety and fear generally don't get made, or if they do, they don't get made well, unless people are really honest with themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think this is the whole premise of those that feel stuck in a job that hate, because notice, we didn't say stuck in a job that keeps them broke, or stuck in a job that anything else, it's just a job that they hate, and I use that terminology very intentionally because it's very emotional, right, and I find in my experience, both personally and working with many others who have shared their truths, it's they end up in those careers or they end up in those relationships, or they stay in those environments out of a sense of obligation.
Speaker 1:Right, I must, or I should, do the thing that so-and-so expects of me, right, whether it's a specific individual, typically comes back to a parent, right, and oftentimes we will find partners and friends that mimic or reflect those same expectations in us, right.
Speaker 1:So if we kind of carry it forward, um and but it's when they get to this place where they can no longer do it anymore, it's not that the job itself is something they're ungrateful for, but rather they have committed to a discipline or a craft or an expectation. That is not their truth, right, and that it's like wearing shoes that no longer fit. At one point they may have been your favorite shoes and you were so grateful to have gotten these new pair of shoes. But if you never ever, you know change your shoes as you keep growing, you're going to experience a lot of pain and eventually, what used to be something that was so great and so valuable becomes the thing that's causing all of, or most of, the problems. Right, if you're unwilling to tell the truth and accept that, hey, you know. What matters more is the fit, not the, not the style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as a matter of syntax, I would probably. I would probably say the most important truth to be focused on is our self-truth, self-honesty, humility and figuring out what we really want. What do we really want, like, stick someone in a room, like a blank room, and say you have the chance to live a life that fulfills you. What do you really want?
Speaker 2:so then, take that metaphor and think about it or not metaphor, but like example yeah and then and then now, do that same thing, except visualize your life as it is, understanding the parameters, restrictions, responsibilities that we may have. I think that it's not so much like telling the truth as it is being being honest with ourselves, like when I lay my head down at night, it's just me, there's no one else, there's no camera, there's no billboard, there's no tv. It's just me. And am I happy about who I am and the choices that I made and the behavior that I exhibited that day or not? And that's, that's the end of the story. If you can be, if you are acting every way, every day, in service of what makes you, lay down at night, feel good, great things will happen.
Speaker 1:If you don't, they probably won't. It's difficult. So that brings me to this. Because I want to, I'm going to lean into the finances piece. Right, I know this is something that you are very passionate about and you spend a lot of your time studying, and it also is very interesting to me that our financial lives are maybe the most, I guess, obvious place or most common maybe is a better way to say this place where people put appearance over truth.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Right, and this being your theme in your life, where for so long, you were, you know, out of insecurity, right, it's always out of insecurity. You lived with this. I need to appear as if I need to prove this or as if something right, but when you started getting honest and started being truthful, those appearances lost their value. Honest and started being truthful, those appearances lost their value, but your value both literally, intrinsically and extrinsically, you know, with your career and your investments, and all of that started to actually become the thing you probably tried to show other people you had before. You had it Right. So and I know one of your missions when we last spoke, this has really got me because, by the way, that's my whole story, right, my whole. I always joke. I joke because it's true and I say, like I used to be a professional appears, if my whole thing was, I could sell you on the potential.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And as long as you knew that, I knew that I could do it if I really wanted it. That's that's as far as it got Right as long as I got in the door. That's as far as it got right as long as I got in the door. But where I bailed and I mean unraveled is when it came time to actually execute or deliver on the expectations that I had sold, whether it be an employer, whether it be a partner, whether it be whatever, and it always came down to my finances, right. So I was the best boyfriend until it was time to pay for dinner, right. I was the most attentive employee until I had to sell right.
Speaker 1:Until I had to do something around money, like there was. There was this huge block, and when we last spoke, you were talking about your mission to, you know, really help people understand the truth right around finances not just their own, but how finances money actually works and so that they can start, you know, doing the hard thing, which is being honest with themselves about their own, in hopes that they, they align right. When you understand what finances really are about and you understand what yours really are, I now am learning that that tends to be the most solid foundation. You can start building anything on top of that's right.
Speaker 1:Right. So, with all this being said, like what is it that? If there was one thing about finances that you wish everyone understood what comes to mind?
Speaker 2:Don't invest in cryptocurrency. Fair Fair, I would say that's a good question. I think that cash is king. It's a statement that's been made a million times over. Hey, I have the same mug. That's funny. I think that I would say that as somebody who runs a company. Cash is our lifeblood. If we run out of cash, we die. That's the nature of a company, and so we have to be careful about that. We have to be careful not to overspend. We have to be resourceful and not lean on resources.
Speaker 2:We have to be resourceful and not lean on resources. Now, if I apply that to myself as a person and what lesson people can take away from that, I would say that think about the real value to anyone of what they use money for the real value, not the perceived value, because spending money on a $600 leather jacket, I don't think there's a lot of real value there. You can't eat a $600 leather jacket. $600 leather jacket keeps you just as warm as $100 or $50 leather jacket. Most likely you do get some social value because you're wearing some brand $600 like leather jacket. And, by the way, I use this exact metaphor because I started a company that sold $600 leather jackets.
Speaker 1:So you know these numbers better than anybody.
Speaker 2:I know them pretty well and I know that there wasn't value in those jackets to the price that we were charging. Now they were handmade. They cost a lot to make. They were like two $300 to make, but from the consumer's perspective they were parting with $600 and they were getting a garment that they could otherwise get for far less.
Speaker 2:Now you can make all kinds of social and economic justifications for why certain things cost as much as they do, but what I'm saying is something different. Everybody needs to assess their own situation and know what real value the things they're using their money for have to them, and I see a lot of people using their money on things that don't make them happy, that don't meet their real needs, and they forgo savings. This is especially true for people of our generation millennials, gen X. They're not focused on that. It's a terrifying proposition, and I was very privileged to have a grandfather actually two grandfathers who were able to retire at 45 or 50 years old. I was able to see them every summer for months. They didn't have jobs. They were very savvy investors. They started buying treasury bonds when rates were at like 12%, 15%, 18%. They lived off those. I mean, those were brilliant choices, and I want that for myself. I want to be able to be there for my kids. I want to see them grow up. I want to see my grandkids grow up and I want to be able to be there for my kids. I want to see them grow up. I want to see my grandkids grow up and I want to live a life where my girlfriend and hopefully, future wife and I are best friends and we travel the world and enjoy our time together. What I don't want to do is be so focused on the financial side of things that I can't enjoy those things, because that's what matters the most to me. I want to be with my friends. I want to be with you. I want to be with my closest allies, mentors, confidants, because it enriches me to be around them. My soul is full. That's what I want to use my time for. Now. One thing I'll also say is and I think we mentioned this the last time we spoke I try really hard not to use the term spend time.
Speaker 2:That implies to me that I can earn more, just like I can earn more money. I can always earn more money. I spend money, I can earn more money. Fine, I use time. Time is constantly depreciating and there's maximum amount. I'm going to die one day. Whatever number of seconds or minutes or hours, days, weeks, years, whatever that is. That's it. I'm using two hours with you, or whatever we end up using, and I will use as much time as we can together because it enriches me, and I would look back on this with pride. I wouldn't look back on going shopping at Louis Vuitton. I wouldn't look back on going to some super expensive dinner when I love to cook. I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:So I don't do those things, I don't use my time for those things, and I think that the financial decision that I want more people to be comfortable with is saying no.
Speaker 2:I want people to be way more comfortable saying no, and then I want them to be comfortable saying I don't really believe you if somebody, somebody tells them hey, you should do this thing, because appeal to authority is one of those biases that is so, it's so dangerous.
Speaker 2:Somebody can say something with confidence and they may not know what they're talking about, and so, navigating from what are called first principles this is something my business partner harps on all the time, and I could not be more thankful that he drives this home in every decision framework that we make, which is, if we don't understand let's say, like the law, if we don't understand how case precedent, if we don't understand how the law was written, then I'm not going to rely on a lawyer to tell me what to do. I'm going to say to the lawyer great, you know the part of the law that applies to what we're talking about. Show me, you know the case law that applies to what we're doing. Show me, I'm a pretty quick reader, I'll understand it. I'll write up questions, I'll ask those questions and until I understand what really is going on with this court case or this law, I'm not doing whatever you tell me to do. Until I understand what's true. And that's that can be applied to a lot of financial decisions as well Investment related decisions, you know.
Speaker 2:Spending decisions, saving decisions, all that kind of stuff there's too much it's too complex of a mosaic to go into without much more time, but I think that recognizing that time is constantly depreciating and that we use it, we don't spend it, it we don't spend it. Being able to say no and being able to parse through all the lies, all the trickery, and pierce the opacity of the financial industry, I think that would.
Speaker 1:That would be what I want for people more than anything. I love it. And where? What would you say to someone who you know genuinely doesn't understand the complexities of finance, right? So, in terms of like needing to understand before you make a decision, what about those that you know to deeply understand investments, money, savings, all that kind of goes into to, whatever their financial circumstance might be like, what is one to do if they genuinely don't understand those things?
Speaker 2:um, accept that. Start with accepting that. There's nothing wrong with it. I have friends who are famous actors. I have friends who are famous actors. I have friends who are NFL players. I have friends who are singers. They don't understand it. Whoever you think is like the impressive person that you want to be like, they probably don't understand facets of finance, even finance. People don't understand facets of finance of time. You know, there's nothing to be ashamed of. I think that's the most important thing to start and then from there, if you are struggling with a decision, I could imagine a world where you have a lot of questions and I think that it might be helpful to write those questions down and literally look at the words of those questions and make sure that somebody understands what every single one of those words means. Like, take the example of should I buy a house or should I rent an apartment, which is a decision that tons of people make.
Speaker 1:My business partner and I were talking about this last night, go ahead and for the record for anyone listening, you are a very seasoned and successful real estate investor, so what you're describing right now are going into is very, very relevant to your day to day work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, and so I mean I genuinely try to bring up examples that I know a lot about so that I can be the most helpful. Right, I genuinely try to bring up examples that I know a lot about so that I can be the most helpful. Simply the question of should I buy a house or should I rent an apartment. That leads to a bunch of other questions, you know, should I get a mortgage? And then that can lead to okay, what is a house financially speaking? I know what a house is physically, I know what it is emotionally to me, but what is it financially, financially speaking, I know what a house is physically, I know what it is emotionally to me.
Speaker 2:But what is it financially? On paper it's a, it's a down payment, it's equity and if you have a mortgage it's debt, it's cost, you have to spend money to have it. And then what is a what? What is renting an apartment? I know what it is, again, physically, emotionally. But what is it financially? It's paying rent, it's paying utilities, same as a house, the utilities part.
Speaker 2:It's insurance one way or the other things are financially. That's where some honesty and truth get injected into the situation. And then I think that whoever's struggling with that choice, you know there's a lot of great resources out there to learn about those things, starting with simply google, and go down that wikipedia google rabbit hole. Keep writing down words that you encounter as you go on this search, and I would try my best to understand deeply what each of those mean. And I think that, to take a step back, there are a million decisions like this Should I open a credit card? Should I use a debit card? Should I accept a payday loan? Should I take this job or that job, or should I take this flight or that flight, whatever it is? And knowing how to value those decisions comes from knowing what those decisions actually involve. And as we get more comfortable with this with this investigative mentality, we get more comfortable with this, with this investigative mentality, especially as it relates to finance the world since it kind of opens up.
Speaker 2:We can interpret the world through the lens of what's actually happening behind the scenes. That's what finance is Mostly. It's behind the scenes. Right, we all see the Oscars, but we don't see what anybody's getting paid to be there. Yeah, people get paid. We don't see what. The people who are holding the booms and the people who are working the curtain and all that what are they getting paid? What are the tv networks getting paid by the advertisers? What are the tv networks paying? The academy that gives the awards? All of that?
Speaker 2:And if it ever stopped making sense, unfortunately for all you actors, it wouldn't happen. I can't include you it wouldn't happen. And so understanding all that gets us to a point where we can feel comfortable that the decisions we're making are based in the truth. And then one of two things is going to happen Either our expectations are going to get met or they're not, and either way, we will be in a position to make continued good decisions, good being defined as thoughtful, based in the truth and likely to have our expectations met.
Speaker 2:Decisions where, at the end of the day, we go to bed at night and we are proud of ourselves, we feel good, and that begets clear-eyed thought, that begets intelligence, that begets creativity, and that's how people build their lives. The opposite of all that is being shackled, that's being constricted, it's not being able to be creative and the lack of confidence because we don't have those things available to us, those traits that kills everything. And so the path to whether it's financial freedom or a new job, it starts with writing these questions down, reading each word and making sure we actually understand them, and if we don't, being comfortable enough with ourselves to go look it up and not be afraid to do that for lack of, you know, the appearance of knowing everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a again. The theme here that I keep hearing is the relationship to discomfort, accepting right, accepting what you do not know or what is, and to be able to accept something, we must first tell the truth. Tell the truth Like it's that honesty and, yeah, this is such a powerful thing and I'd love to revisit. I'd love to do another episode where we go deeper into the finance piece, because naturally I have a lot of questions around this. You know my relationship to finances, that's, you know it's been ignorant, right, I viewed finances as the root of all evil and you know, making money made you a bad person and you know, don't dare look as if you have it better than someone else, like all these kinds of you know stories that and narratives that I I bought into and adopted. You know, from a very early age you know my response to finances. You know, and I know a lot of people have the same story. But it's funny because you you typically have one of two ways you respond to that either a you know because all you saw was financial struggle and challenge and all the things you decide fuck that, I'm going to make sure that finances are never a problem in my life and you triple down on earning and making and understanding and leveraging and all those things. Or you're someone like me who had those experiences and instead of saying like, fuck that, I'm going to see to it that that never happens, my response was, well, fuck that, I'm just going to ignore it. I'm just going to avoid that, because it was such a problem for everyone that I ever saw that. Why would I ever want to engage in something that causes so much pain? Ever saw that? Why would I ever want to engage in something that causes so much pain? Yeah, only to. You know, encounter a lot of pain and unnecessary suffering at the hands of my ignorance and the choice to avoid the hard conversations and allow someone to be, you know to to to challenge me to be more honest with where I am and where I was Um. And you know to to to challenge me to be more honest with where I am and where I was Um. And you know that is, you know, 40 years old now a huge conversation that I'm coming into Um. So it's definitely something that I want to lean into with a lot more intention.
Speaker 1:Uh, perhaps in another conversation, because you're someone that I've always and I'll say this forever. It's it's not just your expertise and the logistics of it, but it's also your standard of truth that you're unwilling to deviate from in these conversations. Like we've had conversations where I've had to pause you and like I need a beat because you're challenging me on things that I'm deeply insecure about and I'm getting defensive, right, and when that happens it's like oh, it's because we're actually talking about the thing that needs to be addressed. Yeah, it's not the big bad mean Noah that won't let it go. It's no, he's. He knows what he's talking about. He's asking the questions that need to be asked and you know that's something that I I've started to seek out versus avoid.
Speaker 1:And, um, you know it's something that I I've started to seek out versus avoid, and you know it's something that I think if I think it's one of the biggest issues that that I seek most commonly in people is just that they never had someone who understood, or maybe deeper. They never had someone that was committed to just being as honest and, you know, required honesty in return. So you know, the bigger issue that I'm hearing here when it comes to like understanding how to manage finances and understanding what career you know is appropriate for you, whatever that means or looks like for somebody. And, by the way, that changes. I don't think there's. You know, I think that's something that can evolve, it's a living, breathing thing. But I think it all comes back to one thing it's being honest with what you really want, because how can you budget for something if you don't even know what you want?
Speaker 1:Yeah that's absolutely true, right? So, man, this is great. No, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Appreciate you. This is so much fun. What else?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is. We could keep going, but yeah, I really want to. You know, if there was, we'll end it on this for the sake of our listeners. You know, if there was, we'll end it on this for the sake of our listeners. What has been, what has been the greatest exercise? Or, let me ask it in a different way what was the best question you were ever asked, and what and why?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll start with the why, and I think that it really comes. It's the same theme that we've been talking about. The why of this, of this question, is like the importance of it to me is that it represents everything I want it to be. It represents doing things the right way, morally, intellectually, logically, and it's pretty easy to relate to, I think, because we all have some, I think, connection to, probably to entertainment in some degree, and so the question is how would a professional do it? Do you know who asked me that question?
Speaker 1:I might remember.
Speaker 2:It's on a sticky note, it's on my computer. It's one of two things that is on my computer that I look at every day. It's how would a professional do it things that is on my computer that I look at every day. It's how would a professional do. And what I think of when I think of a professional is somebody who's?
Speaker 2:thought through every aspect, who's done all of their homework, who's read all of the documents, who's communicated and asked of all the stakeholders their opinions, gathered all available information as efficiently as possible in whatever like constraints exist, and then they made a decision that they felt was fair or smart, and then they were accountable to the result.
Speaker 2:That part is how a professional would do it and if, and I and I, I believe that in my at least, in well, no, I think that in my whole life that if I can answer that question with I did it like a professional, then I did just great that's amazing and, yeah, for the record too, that question can be applied to anything, not just work right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was like what would I? Wife?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly like what you know. You people don't say like a professional wife or a professional husband or a professional father.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I think you could say that. I think there's no reason not to say that and applying that framework to those roles honestly makes it even a little easier to understand a level of success in those roles, because it's so amorphous. There's no best husband.
Speaker 1:There's no best husband, best father.
Speaker 2:It just simply doesn't exist.
Speaker 1:Right, despite all the mugs and t-shirts that say otherwise.
Speaker 2:We can aim to do it whatever it is, professionally, and I think if I do that I'm asleep great at night and again that comes back to not potential but standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, being a professional is a standard yeah, it's an expectation.
Speaker 2:Um, I can see it being an expectation. I don't really see why it wouldn't be. It's my self-expectation to be professional. It's my standard to be a professional.
Speaker 1:And I mean each individual's interpretation of it. Right, we may have different expectations on what that may or interpretations of what that means, but everyone, when you think about what is a professional, I have to imagine they're going to envision something that is going to challenge them to grow into a version that they will be proud of. Yeah, whatever that result translates to in the real world. That's not what we're comparing, right? But I think if everyone asks themselves that question, how would a professional do it? They may actually fuck around and become a pretty successful professional at whatever it is they choose to do.
Speaker 2:I hope they do. I think that if people acted in the interest of being a professional, I think they'd be much happier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, certainly much more proud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think all of those good things come from constantly asking ourselves that question.
Speaker 1:Noah, thank you for that. Uh, thank you for sharing all that you have and thank you for future wisdom. Uh, you know the vulnerability to come here yeah, it's this one really, really, really impacted me. You know, I'm going to go. I go on my runs in the evening and I'm about to do one now and it's my time of reflection and you know, the thing that's really going to that I'm really going to sit with is that it being honest and the clarity that comes with the courage to be honest, right, about what you want, about where you are, about what you don't know, right.
Speaker 2:All of these things. Those are great exercises.
Speaker 1:They're just wonderful, so thank you for this.
Speaker 2:They're hard, but they're great.
Speaker 1:Well, that brings us back to the top of the conversation. You said it yourself. You know, if there's one thing that you, you did the thing that you did to become a man you respected was you did the hard thing Absolutely, so absolutely Well, brother thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm excited and grateful Until next time Sounds good, dude, talk to you soon, cheers.