Episode 26: Fan Main & Mental Health

Imagine being dismissed by your healthcare provider, told that your choice for bariatric surgery is unnecessary and lazy. This is a reality many face, and in this episode of the Core Bariatrics Podcast, Tammie reads a message that dives into a listener's disheartening experience and examine the critical misconceptions that persist around bariatric surgery. Hear firsthand why informed support is essential and why you should never let uninformed criticism deter you from your health decisions. It's time we challenge these outdated views and advocate for compassionate, informed healthcare.

Ever wondered about the unspoken challenges post-bariatric surgery? Tammie discusses the unexpected shift from using food as an emotional crutch to potentially increased alcohol consumption. Dr. Iliakova and Tammie speak candidly about the personal struggles of adapting to a new lifestyle, the strain on long-term relationships, and the loneliness that can come when friendships change. Discover the importance of finding true friends who understand and support your journey. It's a raw and real conversation about being fundamentally different and finding your way through it all.

Lastly, we delve into the journey of self-expression and the fear of judgment. How do you find self-confidence in a world quick to judge? Through stories of personal growth, including dancing sober and managing societal perceptions, Dr. Iliakova and Tammie offer insights on embracing self-care and mental well-being. We discuss the delicate balance between self-care and selflessness, especially in high-pressure professions like medicine. With practical advice and heartfelt anecdotes, this episode is a compassionate guide to navigating life's challenges with grace and finding gratitude in supportive communities. Listen in and learn how to stand strong in your truth.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by bariatric surgeon Dr Maria Iliakova and Tami LaCose, bariatric coordinator and a patient herself. Our goal is building and elevating our community. The Core Bariatrics Podcast does not offer medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. On this podcast, we aim to share stories, support and insight into the world beyond the clinic. Let's get into it. Okay, maria?

Speaker 1: 0:27

so we have started getting fan mail off of Buzzsprout and it is super crazy and it's super awesome, so I wanted to share one with you, okay, yes, please, so bear with my stutters if I have any, because reading just Anyways. So here we go. This lady says I just found your podcast and I'm currently on episode three. I just wanted to share a story of something that happened recently. I am currently on class number seven of 10 to get gastric bypass surgery. I hurt my back exercising and had to go to urgent care. I told the doctor there I was currently in the process of getting surgery. She said without hesitation you are too young, I'm 41. You can do this on your own without surgery. She continues to say.

Speaker 1: 1:15

The doctor said I don't understand all these surgeries. Americans are so lazy. Oh my gosh, okay. She was acting as this was the easy way out.

Speaker 1: 1:26

The thing that bothered me more was the fact that she assumed I was lazy. Ain't that the truth? He continues on saying first off, I work in a warehouse where I walk seven to eight miles per shift with constantly lifting boxes of 25 to 50 pounds, nonstop, all shift. Oh my gosh. She says I'm lifting basically one of these units every four to 10 seconds. Good gravy, that's a whole workout. Oh my God Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:54

She continues to say. Secondly, I have four kids at home who I care for, so I'm in no way lazy. It's the fact that that a doctor, who should be on my team or at least support me, basically put me down, calling me lazy and saying that these surgeries, these types of surgeries, are unnecessary. Anyway, I'm grateful to find your podcast and, even though I'm only three episodes in, I've learned a lot and appreciate the information you are sharing. Yay, thank you. If this person is listening. I want to say thank you for listening and thank you for writing in, because a thing obviously Tell me your thoughts, because I know you have some PG or No-ish.

Speaker 2: 2:35

PG.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I have what, even with my primary care doctor, who I do very much so enjoy and I have always before, even way before I actually did have surgery I wanted to go through the process and I wanted him to forward some office visit notes to that program and he just seemed very eerie about it. Yeah, I don't know, and I even talking to people, health care providers now that I'm back in the hospital, the easy way out thing is still very much a thing and it's so hard to not get frustrated about so hard.

Speaker 2: 3:13

Yeah, I agree. I agree, and I think part of it is when we don't know something, when we're not familiar with something, it's scary to us. Imagine a new technology, like when you first got your iPhone. You may have been really excited, but you were also like how do I use this thing? And skeptical or I don't know. Like anytime you use a new technology or you learn something, you're like I don't know, that doesn't sound right, I don't know about this.

Speaker 2: 3:36

And for a lot of reasons, people approach bariatric surgery that way, even if they're in the healthcare field. Sometimes, especially if they're in the healthcare field. We've seen this from all kinds of people and I continue to see this all the time where people are trying to school us, for instance, on how pointless these surgeries are and how easy it is to lose weight and how much of a not big deal this is. And, to be honest with you, I wish it were true. I wish that we didn't need to do surgery for this. I wish it were easy to solve. I wish 60% of the population didn't have extra weight. That'd be cool, but that's just not the case and I don't know. Here's the thing that kind of always I just always have a question about is as a doctor or as a healthcare provider in general, if you don't know about something in medicine. If you don't know about something in medicine, why do we?

Speaker 1: 4:28

not have the curiosity to ask and learn more about it and just project your opinions on patients Right.

Speaker 2: 4:34

Because I'm like if I hear about something that, let's say, I'm not an expert in everything, right, but if the heart doctors, if the cardiologists that I'm interacting with is like, hey, we've got this new thing that we use and it works really well, and I'm like, okay, cool, I don't know anything about it, if I want to have an opinion about it, I'm going to start learning about it, ask questions, learn how it works, maybe go even watch how it works or watch some videos on it or something. Talk to someone who does it. Why on earth would I just sit there and say, oh, that's garbage, that's trash. You're lazy to use this device instead of using some other older device that we know already works. What is the deal?

Speaker 1: 5:15

there. Well, I do think that's healthcare in a nutshell, honestly. Let's be honest, I feel like even the drug reps that come in or this is the best product ever and we're like, oh, here's another to learn about and whatever. So we tend to push it aside when in reality, 20 years down the line, we find out it's actually a pretty good thing. And I'm really this whole easy way out thing. Obviously we have an episode on the easy way out and how it's not the easy way out, and for one for this lady specifically, I really want her to know. I hope this person, this doctor or anybody does not change your opinion on doing this for yourself. And it's not the easy way out. A lot of people do think it is Right, but I think a lot of people don't have surgery because they are afraid of what people think.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Oh, totally, because imagine like you're already having to feel uncomfortable because we're now focusing on the one thing. That's like super stigmatized and you need to feel bad about all the time anyway. And now you're taking actions to do something about it. And now you're doing something that people will judge no matter what you do.

Speaker 1: 6:23

There's really no winning here?

Speaker 2: 6:24

There's just no winning.

Speaker 2: 6:25

People are going to think it's bad to do it. People think it's bad not to do it and, honestly, I was just having a conversation with one of my family members and he had a great saying about this, which is everyone has opinions, or opinions are like navels Everyone's got them and there's a worse version of this, which, anyway, but the whole idea of being like everyone is going to have an opinion, and part of the reason why you and I are chatting about this and are getting this kind of fan mail that's so cool that we are getting yeah, it is cool Is, yeah, it's because we're trying to share the message, and share the message from a really informed standpoint. We've taken care of hundreds of patients. Both of us have been involved in creating a program and building a program and getting a program through reaccreditation, which is really challenging to do through ASMBS, and so we know our stuff, okay, and there's a lot of people in this industry that we've interviewed as well that really know their stuff even more than you and I do by a fair share.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Oh, absolutely the thing. Maybe we're all crazy, maybe the thousands of us that are in this industry helping people lose weight this way and not just lose weight but actually get off of diabetes medications and be able to not have to have surgery for their knees because their knees get better when there is loss this way.

Speaker 2: 7:40

Maybe we're all crazy, but what if we're not Exactly? What if we're actually doing something that helps people in a way that nothing else can, which all the data suggests that? So it's easy to to deny, and it's easy to be skeptical and not educate yourself and to ignore this and to call people lazy. It's super easy to do that. What's not easy is to do it anyway, and that's why I respect the heck out of you and out of the tens of thousands higher than that, hundreds of thousands of people who do go through these surgeries safely and do really well with them every year. I think it's amazing that people have to battle this from their own doctors and they do it anyway.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah, yeah, absolutely I. That's why I want to continue to do this and continue to make awareness just of the good, the bad, the ugly so people cause it really has changed my life so much, a lot for the good. But today we're going to talk about the not so good. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:42

Yeah, and that's important, because I think we are not trying to show this as a rosy only picture. I think we're trying to be super realistic that with any change that people go through, there's going to be positive, there's going to be negative, and, yeah, let's. So. What are we going to talk about today?

Speaker 1: 8:57

We're going to talk about my mental health, have things that you can talk about to just with your journey in life, obviously and surgeon, oh my goodness, I've always talked to you about I've always. Before surgery, I did so much research. I to and from work one hour each way. I was listening to pod well, more so YouTube videos and just whatever I could, and so I felt like I was prepared that for anything that came my way, whether it came to relationships or gaining weight or just all of it, and that I was all wrong.

Speaker 2: 9:31

I think you were more prepared than most people, but I don't know. There's a limit to how prepared you can be until you actually go through it.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Journey. 100% is different. I actually had a friend recently say I wish my mom was doing the surgery so that I could know how it goes for her. So I can do it and I'm sitting. I'm like that's not how it works. Everybody's is literally different. She may become intolerant and oh, I'm not going to do that because she became lactose intolerant. You could not. But during my mental health eval I was encouraged to stay away from alcohol. Due to just mine and my family's risk factors, alcohol would never be a problem because I never really cared to get drunk. I grew up really quick, really early, and I was hanging out with my brother that was four years older than me, so I think I got my drinking out of my system a lot earlier than. But anyways, never have really cared to get drunk. So I didn't think alcohol would become a problem. And it has. It has or has or did.

Speaker 2: 10:36

I'm still working through it and yeah, that's a really big thing to share. So first of all, thank you, because that's not easy. Can you tell me more?

Speaker 1: 10:49

Yeah, obviously you can't eat anymore. You can't eat your feelings, and so I was having big, big feelings, big problems. My husband and I have been together almost a decade. We met each other literally at our lowest point. He was just getting divorced and living in his brother's house and I was living in low income housing, being a single mom going to college. Both had absolutely nothing and we built our life a pretty good one. We both have very decent jobs and I thought nothing could come between us. When we got married I I was bigger. We were both kind of home bodies. Now I want to go out and do things and he has said in the past he was not ready for that. 180 of you want to go out and do things, even if you are in sweatpants and in a hoodie, where before I wouldn't want to go out and do things. So now I want to go out and do things and, as adults, most of the time when you go out and do things, there's alcohol involved.

Speaker 1: 11:49

Now my tolerance. I did tell you in the past that it didn't change much. I've realized it has Not crazy wise, but you do get drunk quicker, obviously.

Speaker 1: 12:01

So that is one reason why we tell people to stay away from alcohol Not stay away from it but be cautious with it because one drink, especially with a bypass, can literally have you toast. And with me going out and doing things and hanging out with people that don't have kids, I was drinking a lot more, even Wednesday night. One Wednesday night I got off of work and I work in a hospital. It was a hard day. I told my husband I was going to the bar and went to the bar and closed it down on a Wednesday.

Speaker 2: 12:35

So it just became.

Speaker 1: 12:39

I can't eat my feelings because stuff with my husband was going bad per se, but not great yeah there's some challenges there, for sure.

Speaker 1: 12:48

Yeah, and again, with that I was drinking more to not feel those feelings. And another thing we're all warned that our friendships are going to change your relationships, you're going to lose friends, whatever. But you ready for this? I was prepared, I was prepared for losing my friend or losing some friends, relationships changing, but I was not prepared and I don't think we have prepared anybody for the loneliness that comes with that. And it's a domino effect when you have the same friend group as other friends, cause they're all in the friend group. So that is another reason of drinking, of just I don't have as many friends. And now I'm hanging out with these people that don't have kids, that can go out on a Wednesday night and get drunk and draining away those thoughts and feelings, and nobody prepares you for that loneliness.

Speaker 2: 13:44

That is yeah that is so real honestly, tammy, and I know that's not easy to share because that's super private, but I think it actually.

Speaker 2: 13:51

I think a lot of people go through this and we couch it sometimes as, oh, you replace one thing with another, but I think this is a little bit different than replacement and I think a lot of people oh man when you go through this, like you said, like so many things change, it's a bit of a domino effect and you're absolutely right, I hadn't really thought about how much when adults go out alcohol is involved, for sure, everything, even if you go to dinner.

Speaker 1: 14:19

I'm having margarita.

Speaker 2: 14:21

That's right, that's right and that's just normal. Normal like adult going out for the most part right. If you're out at a party, if you're out with friends, if you're out at sports doing tailgating or something, or out at a game there's that's the most common thing is to have a beer in your hand or have another drink in your hand. So, and the other thing is, a huge majority of population has not gone through this surgery and does not have this same right.

Speaker 2: 14:43

They can yeah, they can have a drink or two and not have the same effect as somebody who does have the surgery. So it's hard. It's like yet another thing that reminds you that you're different now.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Yeah, we've never actually said that you are different. Yeah, even if you're a different person, but, like you, are different from others.

Speaker 2: 15:02

Yeah, you are. We haven't In in a fundamental way, like in a fundamental way that can never be changed, that can never go back and you didn't save my stomach to stitch it back in there, tammy, you were specifically. I did. I carry it with me everywhere I travel. No, that would be so crazy, but you're like you're. You are fundamentally different than most people in a way that other people can't relate to yeah, and it doesn't matter how much you tell people, it doesn't matter how much they try to understand, I think like they won't.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Well, it's so hard to get people to understand, because you don't understand. So, like people, some people tell me they work. Now the wrong. I've realized the the wrong people are telling me I'm a totally different person, but they can't tell me why or how. Like how am I a different person?

Speaker 1: 15:48

But then the people that are, which I this is another pinpoint I wanted to make of you actually figure out who your true friends are, because who are not intimidated or jealous of you and they see the ways you are changing as truly for the best. I actually found this quote that I really liked, that there are people that will never support you because it's you. There are people that will always support you because it's you, and you have to find those people. And so those, those people that always will support me for me, have said you haven't changed, you just have your way of thinking. Is changing Personality of honestly, this personality of being big and bubbly has always been me, but now it's to the whole world, not just my close friends. So some people are finding my very bubbly-ness to everybody coming off as flirty.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Interesting.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:49

Interesting. I think confidence definitely is misread a lot of times, or oh man. That's an interesting can of worms that we have opened here, Because that personality change it's not like a personality changes, it's almost. I just really love what you said there. You're now more comfortable letting the public in on that or letting other people in on that, not just the people that are close to you, and I think that's super true, because when we're comfortable, more comfortable with ourselves, we're more comfortable sharing our true selves with more people rather than trying to hide it from the majority of people.

Speaker 1: 17:21

So that's a really interesting I have always been a big bubbly person. I love dancing, I love just being cute. I've seen it. Me no, but now I do it anywhere. If I were before, I would honestly before I would have to get pretty tipsy to dance because I didn't like any attention on me at all and I'm like man, put me in a I don't need at the baseball field. If they're playing a good song, I'll do it.

Speaker 2: 17:53

I love it. You're like bring it, because now you're not so worried that people are judging you or people I think right, or people are. Yeah. You're like I don't care, like people can judge me and I still feel good about myself.

Speaker 1: 18:02

But then people look at that negatively, so tell me that. So that's where I'm struggling.

Speaker 2: 18:08

I've changed for the best, but I don't think we can ever control other people right, that is something I'm learning. Yeah, and this is a lifelong thing. I say this as if it's oh yes, I come from Mount Wisdom and I know these things. You're both growing, yeah, and I think it's hard because I also I come from a background and just an environment where control is a really big deal and always being self-control that's a big deal, but also exerting control on other people and trying to find a way to do that in situations.

Speaker 2: 18:42

And, to be honest with you, I probably in part became a surgeon because I'm drawn to situations in which I can control things to some extent, even though, ironically, I think in the OR, like you, are there by the grace of a lot of times. 90% of the time things are under control and things are going well, and then 10% of the time 5% to 10% of the time you are very much relying on a lot of coordination and teamwork and help.

Speaker 1: 19:09

Yeah, and you're learning how to control or navigate, not being in control or something being out of your control.

Speaker 2: 19:17

Exactly, exactly, yes, because I think, like true control or true it's not even the control is the wrong word, but true, like management almost of a situation is having trust both ways, having trust in other people and other people having trust in you that you're all going to have each other's backs and you all have a shared, unified goal that you're going to go towards together, and whether that's in the OR because someone's not doing well, or whether that's in a friendship where people respect and love each other and want to be there together and want to have a good time together.

Speaker 2: 19:48

I don't know. I don't know that it's that different. To be honest with you, because I think we do sometimes think of this idea of control, rather than how can we be on the same page? Yeah, and I don't know, I'm not wise about this, but I just I think a lot of it is you really cannot control what other people think or do.

Speaker 1: 20:09

Can only control our reaction to things. My friend actually made a good point the other day. She was saying she has a five-year-old son and anybody that has any boys in general know they're just crazy. But she apparently said to him one day like you are frustrating me. But then she had to rethink to herself no, I am making myself frustrated, his actions are helping that, but I am getting myself frustrated. I am only in control of. I am in control of my feelings and how I react to things. And I'm like you have a good point there and I've realized now because my flirtate the way people perceive my friendliness as flirtation now has come around in my very small town as um, flirting and being unfaithful.

Speaker 1: 20:58

And I'm just telling you this now and I have not told you that previously, and so I have the past me would have just blown up on on facebook, making a facebook status or doing all these things where actually at this time, facebook statuses have been being made about me. Um, and I've realized sometime you just don't react. It's hard not to every day. I'm like I just want to give it to them, but I need to not react because it's not going to get anywhere and I need to not let it affect me because I know deep down I've not done anything wrong and people are making me feel like I've done something wrong.

Speaker 2: 21:44

That's super immature of you, I think, but it's tough because there's always things that can provoke us and for a lot of reasons, we have certain triggers or certain hooks. But you're absolutely right, it's up to us whether or not we react to them. And the thing is, it's not even so much like whether we react to them, it's what outcome. We're adults, right, we can actually choose what outcome we want. To some extent, right and does piling on and adding to the fuel like adding fuel to the fire? Does that make the fire go away?

Speaker 1: 22:15

Usually, not Exactly and actually I have learned this whole scenario has come full circle and things were actually because, as I said, alcohol has become a problem, was did whatever and during this specific time. I don't remember any of this, so I did black out and so I was just going off of what other people were telling me and third hand telling me and other people come to find out the initial accusation wasn't even correct.

Speaker 1: 22:48

I've been in my head for a few weeks and so the truth came out because it all came full circle. And now even my husband and I are just laughing because it's like people are ridiculous because who I was apparently being flirtatious to, or extra to is a person. Even my husband looked at me and is like dude. I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I've been hard on my mental health, because that's a lot of things at once.

Speaker 2: 23:24

That's a whole bandwagon.

Speaker 1: 23:25

My marriage- and then people adding on to the marriage struggle is a lot. It's a lot.

Speaker 2: 23:32

And to be fair like we all live in small communities of some kind or another, like whether it's we live in a small town and that's just what the dynamic is. But I moved to New York recently to start an MBA program and it's gone really well. But we also have a small community of people doing the MBA program and there's a bunch of other things and you always there is always an inner circle or inner circles that you're part of and the dynamics there can be really tricky sometimes. So I don't think any of us are immune to this effect of when we go through really big life changes, especially through bariatric surgery, your relationships with people are going to change and people are going to judge and people are going to make assumptions, and you're already going through a lot of changes that you have to deal with even without any of that, and then on top of it, you're absolutely right Like if loneliness starts to be an issue if the things, the people and the activities that you used to do are changing drastically.

Speaker 1: 24:27

it can be really unsettling Very very much so, and so this only solidified why I wanted to do this podcast and why I haven't been as active on our core bariatrics community Facebook page. But I need to be. This is the time that I want our community and I want other people to have our community, because in my small town not a lot of people have had bariatric surgery, so I don't have those, and obviously, the program that I went to and had surgery at I'm no longer a part of, so I don't have a support system either. I want us to be able to create that space for people that are having this loneliness and knowing that they're not the only one feeling this, and I want to shout the roost top of now.

Speaker 1: 25:19

There is nothing fricking wrong with you that making you littler for now being more confident, now having more energy, now just doing out and going out and doing the things you want to do or not doing the things you don't want to do, because I feel something I'm not afraid to say no, even my husband saying no, and so maybe that has become another thing of if I didn't want to that day, even if I said I would previously, I'm not doing it. I am not putting on a smile that day to go hang out with people, even if they are my best friends. If you are my best friends, you should be like are you okay? Is your mental health okay? And if I say no, you're just like okay, we'll talk about it later.

Speaker 1: 26:00

Or if you want it to do not let people make you feel better or worse or horrible for becoming a better person. I think a lot of us that have struggled with obesity already struggle with our self-confidence. Of us that have struggled with obesity already struggle with our self-confidence, self-doubt and all of that. Don't doubt yourself. Don't doubt yourself and continue to do, but also be self-aware. Like me, drinking all the time might've been fun. It's not a good thing. So being self-aware People have said hey, going to the bar with so-and-so who drinks all the time and doesn't have kids probably is a good thing. Now I could have turned around and been you're just jealous. You did a bit whatever that was coming from a good place and I needed to be self-aware and. But if someone's just telling you you've changed, you're different, I, I just don't feel like we're the same friend, whatever that. That's a them problem. I don't feel like morals change.

Speaker 1: 27:05

I don't think we deeply inside change. I think our outside just changed and how we project ourself and you're right.

Speaker 2: 27:14

so so you're right. Very few people change values through this process, but very many people change how they interact with the world. Yeah, what the world gets to see of them, who gets to?

Speaker 1: 27:27

see that and people don't like boundaries and people don't like some, people don't like people controlled Whatever.

Speaker 2: 27:36

But yeah, boundaries people who have good mental health and have the ability to say no and have the ability to say yes with mindfulness are really difficult to control.

Speaker 1: 27:46

I feel like I am very, very. I have good sight for gaslighting now. Like I can tell you're trying to gaslight me from a million miles away, type of thing.

Speaker 2: 28:00

That is an interesting statement, and that's an interesting thing. So what is gaslighting? Because this is a term I hadn't even really understood until a couple of months ago myself. So what do you mean by?

Speaker 1: 28:10

that. So I would actually have to look up the actual definition to you, would actually have to look up the actual definition to me. But to me it is you telling me something that even you know is wrong or that is not true. But you truly making me feel and making me question if it's true or like for me. People have said you've changed and I've changed for the worst. Let's say that and I'm like no, I think I have changed for better, but the way that they keep digging and digging and then you got me thinking that maybe I have changed for the worst.

Speaker 2: 28:49

So making you believe something that actually isn't true, right. Yeah, I think that's exactly that's what I've. That's what I understand of gaslighting too is trying to make somebody believe an alternative reality, basically something that's not true.

Speaker 2: 29:02

I agree, and I think that's and that's tough, because I think, like you said, we all want to be self-aware and we do want to be open, especially in our close relationships, to people telling us like hey, something doesn't seem right, what's going on? We don't want to be stuck in our ways in a way that other people don't get to have an impact on us. Then we're just robots or super narcissistic or something. I don't think that's good either. But I think there's a difference between somebody saying, hey, I think that something's not right, or hey, I didn't like how you treated me when you did that, or something like that. I think those things are super welcome For me, 100%.

Speaker 1: 29:38

I want constructive criticism. I'm realizing a lot of the world doesn't like constructive criticism because they but me personally. If I hurt your feelings, I want to know, but so I look to gaslight someone means to manipulate another person into doubting their own perceptions, experiences or understanding of an event, Telling me that I have changed for the worse and actually getting me to believe that, and I think sometimes that can trigger a conversation of what do you mean by that, like how does this affect you?

Speaker 2: 30:09

But if it's just to be like I don't like this new version of you because it makes me feel unwelcome or it makes me feel threatened or whatever, then that's you're right. That's not something you can change.

Speaker 1: 30:17

Someone coming up to me and being like you're drinking too much, even though my perspective, my perspective at that time, was I'm just having fun and I'm more for me. That's another thing we have to. We do need to figure out, we do need to be a little bit selfish, because I know back then not at all like doing anything for myself was limited. But there is a fine line of doing things for yourself and your mental health and and, honestly, just being selfish it's okay to be a little selfish. It's okay to go get your hair done and spend a little extra money on that. It's okay to go get your nails done. It's okay to go to dinner with your friend. It's not okay to be like I'm going to have fun 24 seven while you sit home with the kids and don't have life, or even see your wife.

Speaker 2: 31:05

So, yes, that's a really big yes and that's actually a really critical thing, I think, because I have struggled with this forever. As a like surgery resident, for instance, I never, ever, had had any self-care the most thing I would ever do is work out. I got you your first pedicure, you paid for it, but it was literally one of my.

Speaker 1: 31:26

I think I had a total of three pedicures in my life and now I see you with your nails done all the time and I love it.

Speaker 2: 31:32

My nails are done, and it isn't just a money thing.

Speaker 2: 31:36

It literally is a bit of a self-respect thing, to me at least, and, believe me, I am not judging anyone on what they decide to do or not do with their body in terms of self-care. Everyone has a different version of that, but I can tell you the guilt that I have felt when I was busy, super busy or super pressured with other things, and I'm not even a parent. I can imagine what it feels like as a parent, like you've talked about, of any money or any time being spent on me instead of other things that rely on me or are important to do. But, to be honest with you, that left me feeling completely high and dry all the time. All the time it meant I wasn't getting enough sleep, it meant I wasn't eating well, it meant I didn't have energy because I wasn't exercising well, it meant that I was more of a train wreck always than I wanted to be, and it meant I wasn't taking care of other people as well as I could, because you weren't taking care of yourself.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Exactly Because I was running on empty all the time, and I think a lot of people run on empty all the time, and imagine if you ran your car that way. Right, Well don't ask my husband On empty it would stop working. Okay, I've done that to a car before. I forgot to change my oil for forever when I was younger.

Speaker 2: 32:44

I just always have an E and I literally stole the car on the highways in a little town in Missouri. It was great when I was 18. But you learn right. You learn that's not the way to treat objects in your life. You can't just run everything on bone dry and expect it to function. But we still treat ourselves that way sometimes and I'm really glad you said that, because okay, so I'm sorry I'm going on a bit of a tangent here.

Speaker 2: 33:06

I recently met somebody who's I love to my tangents. I know I'm sorry I will stop talking, I promise, but I recently met somebody who's very busy and and doesn't be outside of medicine, but also like super busy, super pressured. And as I was learning about this person, he was explaining to me like how, what he does for working out, and he has a hobby of playing guitar and does a lot of things, and pretty much every time I interact with him he's like work, either working really hard or doing something that's self-care. I actually really admire that, because the understanding of what it takes to fuel yourself just like a car or just like any other vehicle for transportation, understanding that you are a finite resource, understanding that you require some care in order to be able to do other things in your life, is a part of growing up. It's a part of understanding right Like if it's not modeled for you by other people in your childhood.

Speaker 1: 34:06

Oh my gosh Right.

Speaker 2: 34:07

Yes, Because I also grew up with a parent or parents that just didn't take care of themselves like that either. Workaholics right, but the consequences of that can be really bad, even if they come down the road even if they don't come immediately and it means that you burn out, you're not performing at your best. Other things start to suffer, and that's just in work.

Speaker 2: 34:30

In your family, it means your family members can suffer as a result, and I don't know, so I'm just glad you brought that up, because I think that's something that has taken me a really long time to wrap my head around. So I'm glad that you're bringing that up because I relate to that a lot.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Well, and this just proves that bringing this full circle of mental health has a lot to do with self-care. And yeah, so I have Definitely hit my low of low. I think I'm going up from going up now, because I think the last time I talked to you you're like, how are you, tammy? And I just started bawling and you're like, oh my gosh, what's wrong? And just, unfortunately, me and you, we are really busy and it's hard to have longer conversations, especially with my kids crazy all around. But I think I have hit low of low.

Speaker 1: 35:20

But I'm also a very self and I think you could agree I'm a very self aware person. I always have been, because of the mother that I had, that I always had to be self aware of my emotions, my whatever. This didn't last very long. This whole drinking thing didn't last very long and honestly, I don't think alcohol is the problem, because I still just I don't love it by any means. I think it's my mental health that I need to figure out how to cope with those things, because now when I was working with you we were working in a bigger city that I would make sure my nails on two weeks or so when I got paid.

Speaker 2: 36:02

I would always be like.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Hey, I need to go hang out with Maria just for some time and now that where my job is and my hours, I don't have that. I'm not in a big city, so my mental health? I just went to alcohol where now I need to go therapy and alcohol is accessible.

Speaker 2: 36:21

I think we forget sometimes that we don't. It's not like you can just go on a hike anytime you want to, or hang out in a bigger city whenever you want to. You have three kids, you have stuff to do, you have work. You have a finite schedule too. So I think that I think being super realistic about the fact that what's nearby and that's alcohol for a lot of people, or drugs potentially, or a number of other things, like some people start to have a lot of sexual activity that they didn't before, or even gambling of scratch offs Correct, and I'm not.

Speaker 2: 36:52

I am not saying any of this to have any kind of moral hopefully people don't think I have a moral say on this, I don't but just to be aware of the fact that when we are struggling and when we're going through a lot of change, it's much, much easier to try to find comfort in things that maybe you wouldn't otherwise. And especially, what would you say actually, okay, tami, if you were to give advice to someone who sees you going through something, a friend or neighbor or someone in your community what advice would you give them to either be helpful or just at least not harmful?

Speaker 1: 37:30

Find that person to talk to, because, heck, even having that conversation with you and just I don't know you, just you really do uplift me and I feel like we're both each other's therapists. But that's true and I feel like if I saw someone struggling like that, I'd be like I'm here for you, what can I do to help you? And I would also, just I would be open and honest with them, like I needed some other friends to be of. Like this is becoming a problem. Be of like this is becoming a problem. What can I do to help you? And unfortunately, and I know not, everybody has.

Speaker 2: 38:10

This is just finding that person to help you, even one person, and it does just one person.

Speaker 2: 38:13

It really like I have a few friends you're one of them that when I just had quite the year in the past we both have, yeah, gone on, but you have definitely been one of those anchors to me and anchor in a good way like anchor in reality and anchor in understanding that there's still wonder and beauty and growth and amazing things going on in my life and I'm lucky enough to have you in my life and have a few other people that are that kind of person for me. Like you said, not everybody has them, but it is worth thinking about, especially for the people who haven't had surgery, for anyone listening who has not had surgery. Thinking about the few people at least a few people in your life, like one to a few, who could serve as that for you, and maybe even having a conversation with them ahead of time or having them listen to this episode ahead of time.

Speaker 1: 39:06

Because I will say, though, that people change. That's true, Cause my this is where my biggest thing, my bestest, bestest friend, that we thought nothing could ever it did.

Speaker 2: 39:16

It did. So, yeah, you went through that too, like with your family member.

Speaker 1: 39:20

Yes, and so that's another thing with this whole platform. Look, if you don't have anybody to turn to send us a message on Instagram or whatever, I look at my messages the messages usually and I'll share them with you. But I even check in on people that have messaged us in the past and whatnot, and just like, hey, how are you doing? So? We need to be that person for you. We be that person for you.

Speaker 1: 39:44

we're pretty uplifting and that's yeah we haven't heard it all but we've heard a lot for sure, and continue to yeah very much.

Speaker 2: 39:51

We've heard a lot and I think it's really I don't know. I'm just gonna, okay, I'm gonna share a story that may be a little irrelevant here, but I think, yeah, I'll share it. It it's a little, yes, Okay. So as a when you're doing surgery on call and I've now been traveling all over the country to do that, since I'm also doing like an MBA- program anyway.

Speaker 2: 40:09

So there's a lot going on, and recently I was taking an object out of someone's bottom because they had put something there and it got stuck, okay, and that can be super embarrassing and it is a situation nobody wants to be in. Nobody wants to be there. The patient doesn't want to be there, I don't necessarily want to be there, the nurses don't want to be there, nobody wants to be there Nobody wants us to be the reality that we're dealing with.

Speaker 2: 40:36

But I took the thing out of the person's bottom at the bedside and it was extremely uncomfortable for everyone, but we did it. But we did it and we did it with grace, we did it with humility. The person was watching a video on their phone so that they could be distracted, so they could be relaxed, and everything, while we avoided the OR and the guy. Afterwards it was actually really sweet. He asked me if he could hug me and he was crying because he was. Yeah, he was so grateful and just wanted to say thanks.

Speaker 2: 41:03

Basically because he was like that was a really humiliating experience for me, but you made it pleasant as possible. Basically, it was like and you weren't rude and you weren't mean and you didn't judge me, you just did your job and it was really sweet. Because I think sometimes we forget that we've all been in embarrassing situations. We've all been when something was like okay, maybe it wasn't something up our butts that was stuck, but we've been in situations that were not that far off and and having showing a little bit of grace and humility to someone who's in that situation, especially when you don't have to, that can be a game changer for that person, and that can be. It doesn't cost anything it doesn't cost anything.

Speaker 1: 41:47

I am very much so now, that person that gives grace. If someone's having a bad day at work or, honestly, if someone's in the hospital and being a straight up a-hole, I'm giving them grace. You're in the hospital. I know you don't want to be here, so I'm cracking to you. I know you're not having a good day.

Speaker 1: 42:03

But even just in public or whatever. If someone is just being an a-hole, I just think in my head I don't know what they're going through, I'm going to give them a little grace. It really does take a lot for me for someone to make me upset by their actions, because I really do try to give people grace, because I've been through so much in my whole life and so now I'm just like something's going on in their lives that Look at you cool cucumber.

Speaker 2: 42:33

I love it. But it does give you some perspective to go through some things and to for people to not have treated us that way, for people to have taken a different action or a different yeah, and a different approach. But now being in positions where you can actually create that kindness and create that, that just truly grace. It doesn't take anything right or like even gifts, like joke with someone in a bad situation to get a little lighter. It can make a world of difference. It really can.

Speaker 1: 43:00

And that's where you also just brought this full circle as well of the fan mail that we sent in of her just treated like crap and being belittled. Honestly and for something not relevant to what's going on. She went in for back pain. Leave her bariatric surgery out of this, come on, and actually I will attest to I've lost weight and I don't have any back pain anymore, where I used to have crippling back pain and yeah, so that's the world needs more yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:30

Provide health care providers like me and you Maybe more people would not let things go as far as they do.

Speaker 2: 43:41

Totally. I really think that a lot of people don't. It's just the same thing as who wants to be humiliated, who wants to feel like they're being judged and they're being shamed and they're at the last resort. Nobody wants to feel that way, and so if we all take just a little step in our day, especially as healthcare providers, to make people feel like they're human and like we can relate to them and like we even if you are tired and you're on your last string or whatever it's really just the ability to not make someone feel bad and instead maybe try to make someone feel a little better that's it.

Speaker 2: 44:17

That's all it is, that is all it is, and yeah, and then I think we could all actually help people do better overall. And maybe you're right, maybe not even get people to the point where they need our services. How awesome would that be. I would love for me to be obsolete one day. That'd be so cool, so you and me. Well, I think it's a tough subject.

Speaker 1: 44:42

I think it's a good one and I think a lot of people will, oh my gosh, resonate with it. Holy moly, okay, yep. And I'm keeping these, I'm not editing this stuff out, because people are like yep, tammy word, brain farts. Words are hard yeah it's all right.

Speaker 2: 45:01

It's all right, I all right, it's been a long week, it's like a holiday week and there's been a lot going on. Yes, yes, I'm really, I'm just really grateful you shared that, because that's not easy. None of this is easy, it isn't but you're doing it anyway and I think it's. It really does help and I relate to it. I can only imagine how other people relate to it too. But, man, am I glad that this exists now. And this is something Because, as a bariatric surgery, patient.

Speaker 1: 45:26

We already feel pretty alone, and then to add mental health issues and relationship issues and all of that, it only makes it 10 times worse. So I just want to thank everybody for listening. We appreciate it so much. We're going to keep doing this with our busy, crazy lives, so thank you all for supporting us. You can we did find out on Spotify, you can send us a text message which gives us that fan mail, or on Buzzsprout, or we're on Instagram too. So it was a good chat. It was so nice seeing your face, maria.

Speaker 2: 45:59

You too, tammy. And, by the way, we've tested all the platforms. All of the stuff works, so please blow us up.

Speaker 1: 46:05

All right, love you, goodbye you too, bye.