Small Business Big World
New episodes every Tuesday discussing the challenges, adventures and fun of being a small business owner. Each week we'll delve into various small business topics, from real-world DEI considerations to selling your business, using video to market your business, unique benefit offerings for your employees and so much more. Curated by the crew at Paper Trails.
Small Business Big World
Building a Niche Market
Ever wondered how honing in on a niche could transform your business? This week's episode of Small Business Big World promises to uncover the power of specialization. We're joined by Derek Stevenson from the Varney Agency, who shares his journey of overcoming the initial hesitation of narrowing his focus. We unpack the complexities of industries like construction and hospitality, where specialized knowledge is essential, and discuss the importance of having advisors who understand the intricacies of your field.
We explore various strategies, from leveraging social media platforms like Instagram and LinkedIn to more traditional methods such as trade groups and maintaining relationships for long-term success. Packed with practical advice and inspiring stories, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to refine their business niche and achieve sustainable success.
Small Business Big World was featured by FeedSpot as a top 50 small business podcast. Check it out here!
This is Small Business Big World, our weekly podcast prepared by the team at Paper Trails. Owning and running a small business is hard. Each week we'll dive into the challenges, headaches, trends, fun and excitement of running a small business. After all, small businesses are the heartbeat of America and our team is here to keep them beating. All right, welcome to Small Business Big World, our weekly podcast talking about all things small business. Today, my guest is Derek Stevenson from Barney Insurance. Welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about some kind of personal branding and personal selling and how to identify your niches and kind of be successful today. I think that should be exciting, so be sure to like, follow, share, subscribe, rate review. We are on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube, If you you know, hang out there, we're probably there. So certainly, if you have any questions, feel free to email us. Podcast at papertrailscom. We'll be sure to get those answered either by our guests or through us, and we'll get back in touch with them. Maybe it's even something we'll talk about here on the podcast. It'd be great to have that too. So let's talk about how, Derek, how you've built your business, how you branded yourself. You're seasoned into your career at this point, as an insurance agent, how did you define and figure out what you want to do, what you want to be good at? Just mistakes.
Speaker 2:Mistakes over mistakes. It's funny when I first entered sales end of insurance and I had done insurance, I've been in claims, I've been in underwriting some operations roles, account management, worked my way into a production role and I remember interviewing and everybody was saying what's your niche going to be, what's your niche, what are you going to do, what are you going to specialize in? And I was so scared to make that commitment because to me that meant if I'm diving into this one classification, this one demographic, this one target audience, that means an infinite amount of others are no longer available. So it was really scary to me and I kept telling people I'm afraid to dive in, I'm afraid to commit to something like that because of how much else I'm going to be missing out on.
Speaker 1:Quickly, I learned that the best way to do any type of branding is to really jump in. Insurance there are, and in our business and in other businesses there's, being good at one area is really important, because I know you're kind of into construction, right, that's a pretty complex insurable market. Right, it gets more complex every day. I'm sure, and certainly I know you've done some other niches over the years. But even you know, even for us, we refer clients to CPAs and to attorneys, and attorneys are the king of niches, right, they're the ones that have. You know, hey, I do this particular type of law and I think, especially in small business, we often work with generalists, right, we work with the small business accountant and the small business attorney. And you know, joey was my, you know, insured, my father's insurance agent, my uncle's insurance agent, he's going to be my insurance agent too. And particularly as our businesses grow, finding an advisor that specializes in what you do is probably even important.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. It's a huge deal. Especially, you know, you mentioned how much things are evolving day by day. I couldn't possibly keep up with that in every single industry. It's just not. There's too much there, there's too much depth, and so I have found again through failures. You know I have had some niche markets that I thought were going to be the ones and I would stay in, and either you know I could it was too difficult to find quotes for them or they were difficult to work with. Whatever it may have been, you know it finally too difficult to find quotes for them or they were difficult to work with. Whatever it may have been, it finally led me to this target audience with construction contractors, both GCs and subs. It does parlay into a lot of development, real estate development, things like that. But if you kind of stay in one silo to a certain extent with flexibility, you just become really a notch above the rest. The generalist is a really difficult way to be right now.
Speaker 1:Even in our industry, right, we talk about labor laws and we do a ton of work with hospitality, and that is probably the most complicated industry to deal with in a labor law perspective. So you know, I think we're pretty good at that, of course, but it's really important, especially these days, and I can promise you from a labor law perspective, the state and the federal government are not getting any less active in enforcement. And it's the same thing in your industries, where you know contracting and building and all that stuff is getting more complicated, the legalities of it are more complicated, the exposure is much greater, right? So I think it's important to really have someone that understands that for sure.
Speaker 2:I kind of you know. I tie it back into the medical field. Who's been doing this for a long time? You go see your primary care physician. You don't want them operating on your knee, right? You want that orthopedic surgeon with a long history of knees that he's operated on, surgeon with a long history of knees that he's operated on. And it's even gotten to that point where you know orthopedic surgeons are now specializing on certain joints, certain areas of the body. Right? That's what you want, that's who you're going to trust the most. How is it any different with selecting vendors such as insurance?
Speaker 1:That's a great analogy, and so you're going to give me a look for this. But how did you? How did you choose a niche that you wanted to go into Because it interested you? The money was better. You know what? What led you down this kind of construction?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think a lot of it has to do with upbringing. I grew up blue collar, everybody in my family has always been blue collar, first one to go to college and graduate, and I just wasn't as good at the blue collar stuff as the rest of the family. My apple fell a little bit farther from the tree but I love supporting those folks. They're my favorite ones. To work with Blue-collar all the way is my favorite, so it kind of was a natural way. In as far as that goes and constantly moving, there's a big need for construction companies and they're at a huge, huge risk in many different ways. You know workers come up with their employees general liability as they're building things. There's a lot of risk there.
Speaker 1:So, with your niche right, what do you do as an insurance advisor that sets you apart from the generalist right? Is it just, hey, I know a lot more about this. Or are there tactics that you're taking, coverages that you're offering you know, training or education or anything like that? What is allowing you to really be the best trusted advisor in that space?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know there's both tangibles and intangibles, and I think you know for one with the experience there. I know my carriers, I know my underwriters, they know when I call and I know what I'm talking about in this world, and I think that goes a long way.
Speaker 1:So not just your clients trust you. The insurance companies that you're working with trust you, which is important. It's huge. If you lose them, you have nothing Right, because we hear all the time, well, I can't get. I've had it happen to me So-and-so agent couldn could convince the underwriter, and I think that's certainly a huge asset. Forget, you know, particularly in the days when talking about insurance, where companies are non-renewing and all that stuff, having that advisor or that insurance agent on your side that understands the underwriter on the other end of the phone is really important.
Speaker 2:Yep, and it goes one step further with that relationship with the underwriter too, is I know what they're looking for and, for example, with construction companies right now, you have to have a formal safety program. They're going to ask for it the underwriters being them, and they're going to review it and in turn, not only do I want you to have it, I want you to get as much value out of it as you possibly can, and so maybe that's adding an extra 5% credit on your general liability, your workers comp, wherever we can you know, knowing that industry, knowing what they're looking for, seeing kind of a claims history as a holistic approach, what people are running into for slip and falls, for small things, just allows you to be a little more nimble on your feet and put people in the best position to get the best possible insurance program.
Speaker 1:That's really good. So you defined your niche, you defined the industry. How do you then drill down and say, okay, these are the types of clients I want, right, certainly, construction's really huge, right, huge. Do I want to deal with the bridge builders or do I want, cold call after cold call, knock in?
Speaker 2:you know, whatever it is, People are going to get sick of you eventually and your closing ratio is going to be pretty low on talking to somebody and getting them to trust you for their insurance. And so you have to define your client. For me. I know that I don't want to work on giant national companies that are going to take all my time and maybe I can only have one or two. Same idea I'm trying to support a family, you know two little kids at home. I can't write a whole bunch of independent contractors who are out there working on their own, so you kind of have to identify. For me a big component was size of the company operations they're in. If I see anybody that's in some super specialized stuff that I've never touched before, I'm probably going to shy away from it. But if I see that earthwork contractor, that paver that you know structure GC out there, then I know I want to go after it. You know, assuming they hit that right spot, that right wheelhouse, that's where I want to be.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting. You talked about the things that you are afraid of, right? I think knowing the client you want and knowing the client you don't want is just as important, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, there's. You know, the old saying is what you spend 80% of your time working on 20% of your clients, and I've found it to be true my entire career right, there's no doubt, and so I think, knowing who you want to work with, shaping that for us. We run a book of business, right. I want that book of business to be those that I want to work with, those that I want to service. Hopefully I'm going to add people or get people to join that know that I'm adding value. A lot of times. Insurance is a necessary evil and I get it and you're paying a lot of money and you're probably not using it a whole lot.
Speaker 1:Well, you sell and what we sell, both not sexy. That's what I said.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, nothing about it, and I I'm not adding to that. So yeah, absolutely, you know I think they are necessarily evils.
Speaker 1:And I think for us we've come to a point where we've realized we're not the best advisor for a client, yep, and we've said, hey, I think it would be best if you went and talked to somebody else. And we and in my experience we've done everything we can to make that transition super easy. It's never easy, of course, to change these things, but you know, we want to make sure we're still taking care of the client, but guess what? For whatever reason, right, we're not performing, we're not the best advisor. We don't understand it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we have a bad personal relationship, we don't click, yep, and I think, knowing that as well, you know you can't be everything to everybody, and that's why you know picking these niches, knowing your clients, you know, knowing who you want to work with, is even more important. So once you've, you know you've defined your market, you defined your clients, how do you then go and attract those, the clients in that industry, and how do you work that that kind of book of business? How do you really, you know, build that that trust and get more business?
Speaker 2:So it goes back to defining your client. Now you have to find your client right. And where are you finding them? And you know, I've been through kind of some different industries where some are very Instagram heavy, some are very Facebook heavy, some would prefer you never send them a message on either of those. They're still pretty old school and they want a door knock or a phone call. And I think, knowing how your crowd is going to best react to your basically elevator pitch, at some point you're going to give one. How can you get their focus on their terms? It's not you.
Speaker 2:For me, I could be on social media, send 10,000 DMs a day and get five back and maybe that's okay. But who am I going to be attracting that way? It's probably not a lot of the construction companies. Do I find a lot of leadership on LinkedIn? You know that's a segment I like. But I think it really goes down to know your audience, know your ideal client, and then figure out where to find them.
Speaker 2:And everything I have found leading up to this has been they're heavy in one certain area. Usually it's one social media platform or maybe they're really quick to send emails back. When you email them, others call, but you have to know what time to call. If I'm calling a contractor, you can call them at 6.30 in the morning and they're going to answer on their second cup of coffee and they're ready to go, whereas some of these other companies if you call at 6.30 in the morning you call at the restaurant, or at 6 o'clock in the morning, they're still in bed from they're mad. They're mad, right. So you have to know your audience and know how to communicate, and that's great.
Speaker 1:Now, what about trade groups? Are you seeing, because you're great in construction, do you join those trade groups to try to get in with them and network with them? I mean, I know you've talked about how to communicate with them, but how do you get to communicate?
Speaker 2:We're all getting a million sales pitches a day from every avenue possible, but how are you getting in front of them? So I am about six and a half years into my sales career here with Varney and I think I'm just now learning that the most important thing is to ask them. I have clients in this sector. Ask them, how do you answer? Because really you're pulling your ideal audience right. And so ask them where are you most likely to respond? How does that hit? What types of things are you interested in hearing? And now that's something I'm asking my clients when I meet with them is just to get more info, and it's going to help me service them, but it's also going to help me attract the other areas.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, a ton of research, go online, find out as much as you can where these guys are going, but then talk and ask and find out. And construction is probably a very extreme example. The trade groups are phenomenal. A lot of them are in there. Pooling resources extreme example. The trade groups are phenomenal. A lot of them are in there pooling resources, knowledge together, and it's been a great way to network and meet people. I've also found that a lot of the people in those networking groups or those organizations have really close ties that they don't want to sever. But they're pretty interested in offering you up to their friends and that's fine with me.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So we talk about being a trusted advisor all the time and our biggest thing is you're right is the last thing I want to do is peel you away from someone you trust, and I think that builds more trust too, right, because you never know when that opportunity might come back, right? So maybe I'm going to provide you with some value. Today You're not ready to give me your dollars yet, uh, but you never know, in five years that guy may, you know, grab the bed. You know something may happen. You know things change, businesses grow, people move around and, uh, you know, you never know when that opportunity may come back to me. I know we've had clients, we've had prospects that we've worked on for years. Right, we've kept in touch with in whatever capacity. We see them out at, you know, business after hours, or we see them out around town, whatever, and then finally you get that call and we're like, oh wow, it only took four years.
Speaker 2:And that's why you never burn the bridge right. You always keep it going and that's interesting.
Speaker 1:So, um, you know what you've, you've adapted, you've changed right, so you've I know, you know from knowing you've had a couple of different industries and it seems like you settled in this niche right now, in construction. But what drove you to? I mean, it sounds like you were still trying to figure things out. Yeah For sure. What kind of drove you through that progression of different industries until you found where you wanted to be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think you know a lot of it again was trying to figure out how to provide for your family. So the first spot where I was really trying to carve my own niche into was a spot that took, really frankly, four to five times the amount of work just to get the paperwork done. We're not talking work like using your brain. You're talking the boring data processing stuff, and then the commissions were half of anything else and it just wasn't a sustainable practice. I'm working harder on this and getting paid less.
Speaker 1:You know you have to have some self-value and understand that that's a good point Always, you know, value your time and energy and work smarter and not harder, right? I think that's really important. So you know, as you've progressed, certainly imagine you still have some of these clients that aren't in your niche, and I know you have clients in multiple industries and that's okay, right? Yep, yeah, I mean you've got. You know. You have different clients that aren't your ideal client, of course, if you feel you can still service them and they can trust you in that, right, I think that's important. So you know what are you doing to stay agile and keep the pulse on your industry and so forth.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know that's one of the advantages of jumping into an individual market is being able to follow it. And so I am constantly spending time researching on updates, articles, what's coming out in the construction industry, how does it tail into our area, and doing whatever I can. And you know, this morning, for example, I stumbled onto a news article story out of New York where there's been a major sting on workers' comp fraud on construction sites and you know it was one of those thumbnails that was funny A guy falling down the stairs obviously not a real situation. You and I could watch it and know there's fraud going on if he's filing a claim for it. But that's the thing you know. Keep your pulse on that. You can't possibly do that for every industry, so you got to do what you can.
Speaker 1:And then you just I'm sure you shared that article with your clients- yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Hey, this is going on. It's down in New York City, very different world than here, but you know, keep your eyes open, see what you can do. Yeah, we don't want to end up the news article, right? How do we get? How do we do that before?
Speaker 1:Of course, Of course, For many reasons, being the news article is usually not Usually not a good thing. Usually not a good thing Because they never publish the good stuff, Not with insurance. When we send out a press release, there's no response but specific. But I think a lot of the things we talked about today are applicable to every business. For sure, you know, I certainly you know we talk about defining a niche.
Speaker 1:It's you know it's hard for a restaurateur to think, you know, hey, I have a certain type of people that I want to serve because, guess what, In that game it's volume, You've got to get down through the door. But I think always keeping track of your customers and understanding who they are, where they live, what they're, you know what they like and what they don't like, regardless of the industry, is really important who you're going to serve. So, uh, you know, I think that this is is applicable across them, Definitely. Any closing thoughts you know, how have you built your brand? You know, when people think about you, they think about insurance. You know, insert, uh, construction, insurance. Any other thoughts on how you've, you know, really gained traction there?
Speaker 2:No, I think, work hard and stay on top of things. It's a very everything is evolving so quickly, you know, post-covid, especially Now. There's flooding in Maine happening more regularly, storms are more severe. We're talking about things we weren't talking about just four or five years ago, which is kind of wild to think about in an industry that's really been looked at as pretty slow to adopt new things.
Speaker 1:So, being agile, staying on top of things, yeah, I think you know we talk about a lot in the office. You know, five years ago things were entirely different.
Speaker 2:So different.
Speaker 1:Even in our industries I know in your industry things have happened quicker than I have ever seen. Legislation has passed, regulation has passed. You know, the way we do business has changed. You know, five years ago, I know my clients were like, oh, do you have a Zoom? And I'm like what's a Zoom? Yeah, and I text that, right? No, just come in and talk to me right Now. I don't even want to talk to clients sometimes in person, right? Not, because I don't love them and I don't want to see them. It's like, hey, it's going to take a half an hour for me to drive there. Exactly, I'll meet for an hour. Drive an hour back. You know it's, it's. I think there's efficiencies that we found that are now more socially acceptable in it, and certainly we all have to adapt and change the industry. So good, awesome, well, Derek, thank you so much. How people find you if they have questions for you. Yeah, get in touch with instagram, linkedin active on active on linkedin um.
Speaker 2:Derrick stevenson, d-e-r-e-k-s-t-e-v-e-n-s-o-n. Um. You can find us on instagram as well. Blue collar coverage uh, varney agency. We have a lot of people there to get in touch with um.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we'd love to hear from people awesome, and certainly if you can't find him on instagram, because he forgot his Instagram handle earlier. So you know, make sure you reach out to us. Podcast at paper trailscom. We're happy to get you in touch as well. And again, be sure to like, follow, share, subscribe, rate, review, uh, everywhere you consume this information. So thanks again, derek, and to everybody out there we'll. This podcast is a production of Paper Trails. We are a payroll and HR company based in Kennebunk, maine, and we serve small and mid-sized businesses across New England and the country. If you found this podcast helpful, don't forget to follow us at at Paper Trails Payroll across all social media platforms and check us out at papertrailscom for more information. As a reminder, the views, opinions and thoughts expressed by the hosts and guests alone. No-transcript.
