Navigating Change - Strategies For Small Businesses

I was delighted to be joined by @Alice Olins, Career Expert, Coach and Trainer, and the Founder of the @Step Up Club, an organisation that works with individuals and teams to help them fulfill potential, navigate and embrace change.

This was an impactful conversation with Alice where we explored change and how small businesses can best navigate it.

🌟 Some of the most interesting elements were:

✅How, leadership through communication and openness is such an important part of successful change;

✅The importance of having a deep understanding of the stakeholders or the people involved in any change;

✅During times of change, be the Leader where people follow your vision, not because you're telling them to, but because they really believe in you as a person;

✅The value of appointing change agents within the company to help activate change and mitigate some of the barriers that inevitably come up through the process;

✅The importance of making sure there are points in the timeline where you stop, measure and articulate where you are at in the lifecycle of the project to maintain the impetus.

Transcript

Adam (00:02.724)

So today I'm here with career expert, coach and trainer, Alice Olins, who is the founder and director of the Step Up Club, an organization that works with individuals and teams to help them fulfill potential, navigate and embrace change. Alice, welcome to the Fractional CFO Show, how are you doing?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (00:20.078)

I'm good thanks Adam, how are you?

Adam (00:22.628)

I'm very well, thanks for asking. And so today we're going to dive into navigating change and look at some of the strategies to help small businesses manage changes in their business. So Alice, to start with, would you mind giving us a bit of an overview of your career so far? How, how did you get from the world of journalism to starting the step up club and becoming a professional coach and trainer?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (00:48.494)

Yeah, absolutely. So change has been a theme of my career broadly. So I think that's why I feel so passionately about it. I have experienced several professional changes. I was going to say I fell into journalism, but I didn't really fall into journalism because I edited my student newspaper when I was at university. So it was obviously a passion of mine early on. I studied history and was always...

a researcher and writer and journalism felt like a great expression of that. And I had nearly 10 amazing years working at the Times newspaper on the features section. Absolutely loved it and was sold a story that it would also be a brilliant career for a working mum, which I was hoping to have children at some point, because you could kind of take all of that training and knowledge and network and then be able to kind of.

become a freelance journalist, which I tried after the birth of my first daughter, but actually found it incredibly difficult. I really missed the team, kind of the team element in journalism. So although you're working on your own, you're in a busy news desk, what you're picking up kind of just in the ether of hearing stories and being able to find angles and that type of thing. Obviously that was totally removed when I was working from home.

pre -COVID this was. And I felt very isolated and I really actually found it very difficult to be able to pitch stories. It wasn't really working for me. Then by kind of chance, I suppose, I ended up having a conversation with the wife of a very old friend of mine at a party who was a careers expert and a coach actually. And we were talking about women. This was back in kind of 2015 when professional development still felt very...

antiquated, so stuck in boardrooms with flip charts and certainly didn't feel like it spoke to or resonated with women. And so we had a little bit of a harebrained idea after a couple of glasses of wine that perhaps there was a book there where we could use my journalism skills. I'd worked a lot within working, kind of writing around women. So I had that deep knowledge of women in the workplace and she had the kind of executive coaching skills and

Alice Olins Step Up Club (03:08.398)

We got an agent, it all sounds really easy, it wasn't as easy as it sounded, pulled a book proposal together and actually ended up getting our book published by Random House. And off the back of that, a business grew. So kind of the other way around to the way most people do it. We were asked to sit on some panels and that type of thing. And we realized there was a real appetite specifically for women at that point.

to support them in their professional development. We set up a business, she actually exited the business in 2018, entrepreneurial life wasn't for her and I took it on and evolved it to become an in -person and virtual community. I run B2B training sessions within organisations and I've got a busy coaching practice as well.

So yeah, unexpected trajectory in my own career, but it's definitely helped me to experience and feel and understand the power in change actually. And I can use that along with my experience and my knowledge to support others individually and businesses to navigate change themselves.

Adam (04:14.757)

Excellent, excellent story and congratulations on being able to publish a book straight off the bat. I think that's impressive and quite unusual. So obviously you've got a good story to tell and they saw that. And I'm interested because I've obviously worked in media as well and I understand the professional change that you refer to and how much that has impacted people in that profession and all professions now. What have you seen to be some of the sort of the key elements?

of a successful change program. Like, you know, and if you had to define what those elements are, that'd be a good place to start.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (04:53.582)

I mean, I think it has to always be specific to the situation. So there are some incredible change management models out there. For example, Cota's eight steps of change. That's one that I will rely on repeatedly because it has such a clear structure and I feel like it covers all of the bases that need to be covered. But I think the most important thing is,

understanding the context in which this change is happening because unless you are, unless the change is solely, and I don't think it ever exists in isolation, a technological change within a business, so in terms of their processes or their operations, there are always going to be people involved and even when there's new processing.

or new tech that's being embedded into a company. There are still real people, thank goodness there are still real people who are doing work that need to be able to learn new skills, be led through that process, be able to navigate that.

invariable kind of limbo state where you don't necessarily feel like you're fully in control of that change. And so I think there always has to be a deep understanding of the stakeholders or the people involved in that change. So I would say that is always the most important. I'm kind of human centric trainer. So starting with the people and layering on the other key elements of change, whatever they might be. And, you know,

Leadership is such an important part of change. Communication, openness is such an important part of change. Being able to build and then communicate a strategic vision and then guide people through that. You know, there are lots of elements that we can go through about how to actually kind of activate that change, but I think it has to start with the people that it's going to impact and allow them to feel safe, supported and understood.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (07:02.574)

so that the change can happen most effectively really.

Adam (07:08.9)

No, I think that's right. And I think, you know, coming from a finance background, I've been involved in quite a lot of system changes within smaller and medium sized businesses and, you know, even changing the technology, as you say, the impact that has on the people using that technology, both pre and post is critical. And if that's not considered and if the leadership is not shown, as you say, then, you know, it's destined to fail, isn't it?

Adam (07:37.112)

In terms of the sort of smaller business side of things, because obviously change management in a larger business where you have those resources, where you can afford to pay for experts and consultants and specialists to come in and help you with that change, how are you able to take your larger company experience of change and help smaller businesses? What are some of those elements that need to be considered when you're moving from large to small?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (08:06.766)

I mean, I'm just not sure there is such a big difference in the application of change. I think, like I said, I think the key elements, the key components of change are strong leadership, strong open leadership, clear communication at every front to everyone that is involved and even the people that aren't directly involved. I think being able to galvanize.

the company as a whole, especially if it's a small company. So letting everybody in, even if they're not directly involved in that change. I think investing in training and support. So I don't think that has to involve external experts. I think there's so much information and learning out there on the web that really that kind of loops back to the leadership piece. So the leaders really understanding how they can support and upskill.

their team and I don't necessarily mean upskill them in the new skills that they're going to need, whatever those are in terms of kind of the other side of the change, but actually the skills that they're going to need to be able to cope with the change because there's got to be this bit in the middle which often there are lots of the analogy that I always seem to find or read about when it comes to change is the choppy waters in the middle. So we feel very safe when we're anchored into a harbour.

And actually getting people to the calmer seas on the other side of change feels like that's where you need to get to, but actually helping them to navigate those choppy waters, which are always gonna be there in the middle. And my job often is to help people to see the power in those choppy waters and actually being able to harness that. I think there's such incredible scope for...

professional and personal development, both in terms of moving companies forward and moving individuals forward by them allowing themselves and leaders being able to carry, I don't mean carry, but be able to support their teams through those choppy waters that are going to exist. So I think it's looking at that whole process, monitoring.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (10:17.71)

the experience and being able to have a feedback loop. So being able to listen as well to what the experiences are and be able to be quite agile in that process. So you might want to follow like Cota's eight steps, but equally that might not work exactly as he's prescribed it. So being able to listen and really understand the experiences of those who are going through the change. I think another brilliant way to help activate change and be able to mitigate some of the...

barriers that might come up is to get some change agents within the company. So those are just people who really understand what is happening and are able to, you know, take that kind of leadership role and be able to apply it maybe at a more junior level or in a more express it on a kind of day -to -day experience. So those key components don't really change.

Adam (10:52.548)

Mmm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (11:14.478)

depending on the size of the business. I think it's really about understanding the people involved, listening and having open communication and the other bits are just levers that are there to help make it as smooth a process as possible.

Adam (11:31.588)

Yeah, absolutely. I think you'll mention there of change agents. I can definitely think of a few situations where that hasn't happened in my career and we've tried to introduce the change and you haven't had those kind of advocates for change within the business on the day -to -day side of things. And it makes it a lot more difficult, a lot more challenging, because obviously they're the ones who have to take the old processes and try and work out how it's going to work in the new world on a day -to -day basis. So I think that's vital.

One thought I had as you were talking there is, and this is through no fault of anyone's, but change is often about...

looking internally and so looking at how you become more efficient, how you put in place a new process, a system, something that brings everyone's attention inwards. So I'd love to hear your experience where you've seen change work externally, so where you've seen a business improve, better customer experience or you know better revenues, better profits, better...

better opportunities coming out of a change rather than not just the internal focus. So is that something you can talk to?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (12:47.79)

Okay, so this bit's a bit off, like, just to discuss that question. So do you mean like in terms of specifics of specific companies?

Adam (12:58.276)

It doesn't have to be specifically named companies, just experiences where you've seen a change have a positive effect on the company's performance or the company's experience with clients.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (13:12.814)

Hmm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (13:17.422)

Yes, but I think it's, go on, give me some examples. Because I think it's so difficult because where I generally sit, I'm not necessarily there when that kind of, that expression of change has really embedded. So I'm often there at the point of change, but I'm not necessarily there where I can kind of really understand the impact of that, although you can move them through that arc of change. So I just don't necessarily feel that.

Adam (13:17.443)

So, just thinking.

Adam (13:47.235)

You don't always see the outcome in terms of the impact it has. Okay.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (13:47.502)

kind of, I don't always see the, yeah, exactly. I mean, I kind of do in terms of testimonials and stuff, but it just doesn't feel like I, I just don't feel that comfortable answering that question because it would just become a lot of generalisations that I'm not sure are that helpful.

Adam (14:04.932)

Okay, all right, no problem. We can move on. We can move on. So I guess, could you talk about some ways that business owners should go about aligning their change management to the business objectives? So to what they're planning as an overarching business and how they should make sure that that change management process dovetails into that.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (14:31.822)

I mean, this is all the bit that I did reply to you is just not my, I don't necessarily work on this level within small businesses. So I'm much more helping individuals and teams to activate change. I don't.

Adam (14:46.628)

Okay, so I guess in terms of...

Alice Olins Step Up Club (14:47.758)

These are the ones that I just didn't feel that.

Adam (14:51.556)

No, that's fine, that's fine. In terms of activating change, so how do you advise your clients how best to activate change? So what are some sort of tangible pieces of advice that you could tell the audience how they should start activating change?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (15:12.462)

So I actually think the most important piece of activating change is to first of all look or listen. Sorry, I think the most important starting point around activating change is to address the fact that as humans, we tend to default to negative when it comes to change. So we tend to view change, like you were saying about the kind of internal piece.

and we're having to look inwards, we often make assumptions. And I think assumptions are a really dangerous part of the change process, but we tend to make assumptions that there's been some type of problem. And sometimes there is, you know, there might be an inefficiency that has been recognized and therefore there needs to be a specific change implemented. But actually during COVID, this really presented itself. So what I heard towards the end of 2020,

was a lot of my clients saying, you know, I'm so happy this year's over. I can't wait until we move into 2021. Obviously we weren't aware of the fact that it was going to be rolling on, but there was this real assumption that the change that we had, the acute and steep change or learning curve we'd all just experienced had to be put to bed and forgotten very, very quickly.

And it occurred to me that actually we had all learned all of these new skills. And I caveat that by saying, obviously the loss of life around COVID, you know, is far, far, far more important than learning or finding positives within the experience. And obviously I don't want to minimize anybody's personal experiences within that. But it did occur to me that that might be a bit of a wasted...

approach to the year and the experience that we'd all been through and wouldn't it rather be more powerful, interesting and useful to stop and reflect on how far we had all come in different ways in coping and being agile and being able to be resilient and maybe we hadn't stopped and considered that and suddenly these were new skills or behaviours that we could then apply to

Alice Olins Step Up Club (17:33.806)

other changes that we might be experiencing or creating change even, so being able to find new opportunities. So I think the starting point is actually addressing individuals' relationship with change because I think if you can broaden that and you can help people to see that...

We don't make progress in the status quo. We need to be in those choppy waters to be able to push forward. And however that is applied within businesses, so if it's a new operating system or if it's a restructure, it doesn't really matter what the change is. I think the most important starting point is educating those around that this is something positive and it could feel hard.

but actually getting comfortable in that discomfort can really help power the change and be able to leverage the opportunities within it. Because I see change as a massive kind of, you know, it's a point at which there are opportunities for evolutions on so many different fronts, personal, professional, organisational.

But often we are quite close to that and it becomes something very negative. And that's, I think, where the barriers are at play. So my starting point, again, like I said earlier, is that really human point of how can we educate those in the business to see this as something collective to develop collaboration, to develop individuals, to develop teams and the company as a whole to move towards the ultimate goal, which is obviously growth across lots of kind of tangible metrics.

but making people very much feel part of that and really understand why it's happening and how it can positively impact them.

Adam (19:23.46)

Yeah, okay, that's great and lots lots there to unpack in terms of the education piece I think that's that's vital ensuring that people approach Change with the right mindset as well and that comes back to something you said earlier around leadership So I'd be interested to hear your view on you know, what elements of leadership skills Do you think are most important? I think you've touched on some of them, but it'd be great to sort of dive into those a little bit more

Alice Olins Step Up Club (19:48.142)

Hmm.

So, I mean, we know that if you're reading studies of what millennials want, which is a good litmus test of what the market wants in terms of leadership, is the transformational leader. So obviously there's, you know, the kind of old fashioned, much more transactional leader who works on a more quid pro quo basis. And while that type of transactional leadership is sometimes required in the process of change,

The relational skills within transformational leaders is absolutely vital when you're trying to instigate change within businesses. So being able to listen, I think is a huge part of leadership. I think leaders can tend to think that they need to have all the answers, but actually it's about asking questions and listening to those who are going to be impacted or experiencing this change as well.

likewise being able to show their own vulnerable side, so being able to share times when they found change difficult or the parts of this specific change that might impact them and challenge them. So really it's those, the EQ part of leadership, it's connecting to other people, understanding other people's experiences, helping teams to feel safe.

to be able to express what they need to express. We know that when there's higher levels of psychological safety in teams, there's actually higher levels of creativity too. Team members feel more comfortable to be able to bring ideas to the table and not feel judged by that. And often in the change process, we need to be hearing those ideas or those opinions for that feedback piece so that...

Alice Olins Step Up Club (21:41.102)

that leaders can really understand what others' experiences are at that time or what they are hoping to achieve through this change. So I think it's that deeply relational part of leadership where you build deep relationships so that people follow your vision, not because you're telling them to follow your vision, but because they really believe in you as a person. And that, I think, is the type of leader that you need.

during times of change. So they need to have that vision, be able to articulate it. But at the same time, they very much need to be part of the company and be at the same level as them, both in terms of their mindset, in terms of getting their hands dirty and experiencing it on a kind of day -to -day basis, as well as kind of sitting maybe in a more removed capacity.

Adam (22:36.036)

Yeah, absolutely. Some great stuff there and I think you mentioned a couple of things I'd just like to...

check my understanding of just around that the relationships and the vision and the mindset sharing with your team as the leader, you know, that's presumably you mean that's something that you should be doing as a leader throughout and then when it comes to the change, you're all on the same page rather than it being, you know, specifically for the change. Is that correct?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (23:07.374)

Yes, yeah, I think I mean, absolutely. I mean, that's what we want as our leaders. And I think it's also important to make the point that we are all leaders at whatever point we are at in our career. So even the most junior people within a company are leaders because they're leading themselves and leadership is about influencing others. And I think part of deep

transformational leadership is recognising that you have an entire company of leaders and being able to empower those leaders to be able to influence upwards, influence their peers, influence themselves. So yes, obviously that transformational type of leadership is what we are hoping for at all times. I think it needs to really...

be crystallised during times of change. So there might be an exaggeration to some of those parts of it. And that's around articulating what is needed, getting involved in the boring bits of change, you know, learning the new processes, not just letting other people do it. I think there's two reasons to do that. You always, as the owner of a company or a CEO of a company, you have to understand how all parts of the company work.

Adam (24:07.3)

Mm -hmm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (24:24.11)

So for that alone, you have to be there and being part of that change at whatever level it's at, but also showing the rest of the company that you are engaged on that level and that you are part of it, which empowers them to follow that vision.

Adam (24:45.124)

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so key. And I like your way of just focusing on the need to over index in some of these things during a change management process, but you still need to exhibit those traits throughout. One trait that you mentioned earlier, which I was interested in, was vulnerability. And you mentioned about the leader exhibiting that vulnerability alongside the teams during a period of change. And I've seen this work well, but I've also seen it not work.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (24:58.35)

Absolutely.

Adam (25:15.078)

well. I'm thinking specifically, unfortunately, I've had to be involved in kind of redundancy programs and where you're having to restructure businesses through the, you know, no fault of management, but due to the macro situation and exhibiting vulnerability in those circumstances where if someone's losing their job, you're not losing your job. Yeah, that's obviously quite a challenging trait to exhibit, that empathy without appearing

sort of unfeeling. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how how that can best be managed.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (25:52.206)

So I don't think empathy slash vulnerability is about matching someone's experiences. Empathy is about putting yourself in their shoes at that time and being able to respect their experiences. So it isn't about necessarily...

mirroring what they're doing or saying, but rather really trying to understand the different pressures that they might be under. It's really, you know, we only know our own experience of life and that's a given for everyone. And deep empathy is trying to look beyond that and put yourself in somebody else's shoes. And so it's not about diminishing their experience, but rather being able to see all of the facets.

of their experience. So it might be about understanding how that redundancy is going to affect them personally. It might be about how they were communicating, how that redundancy was communicated to them. So it's not about kind of sharing necessarily experiences, but it's about taking the time to recognise as much as possible how they are feeling because of the pressures and the different elements within their life.

and then being able to mitigate your response to them in the knowledge of as much to the best of your ability what they are experiencing. So it's a little bit of a convoluted explanation. So it isn't about saying, well, yeah, no, I've done that. You know, I've also been very redundant before, you know, I know it can be really difficult, but rather being able to say,

tell me how this is going to affect you personally, asking them questions, have they been through this before, have they thought about this, where can you see that there could be opportunities? And actually just having those really key listening skills, so being an active listener and not trying to cannibalise a conversation because it feels very difficult, but actually being able to ask open -ended questions that allows the other person to be able to fully understand.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (28:06.16)

their experience and express their experience. I think that's the important part of vulnerability and empathy.

Adam (28:13.508)

Absolutely, that's a great answer. And I think in terms of, as you say, respecting their experience, putting yourself in their shoes, open and active listening, you go a long way. That's great. I'd like to change tack slightly to understand a little bit about some tactics and strategies that you have seen work.

ensuring that change is as inclusive and equitable and fair as possible. And I know this is something that we all endeavour to achieve and you've mentioned it a little bit in some of your earlier answers in terms of involving all the stakeholders within the process, but how do you and how can the business owner best ensure that they engage diverse voices in a change management process?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (29:05.454)

I've kind of two questions there. So engaging diverse voices and including well, I'm not sure I fully understand the question because if we're talking about small business and we're talking and we've already kind of covered that you want everyone included whether or not they are.

a kind of frontline, if they're going to have a frontline experience of that change or not, then you are going to be including everyone anyway. So what do you mean by that?

Adam (29:44.612)

I guess it's about how you go about including them. So what activities or techniques or tactics can you use to make sure that you've included as many diverse voices as required?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (30:06.638)

I don't, it's just not really, like I think it's a bit of a kind of.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (30:16.526)

I just think it's a bit of a kind of funny question because by, by, by, by, by singling that out, you're almost saying you wouldn't do that. And I don't like that. I don't be inclusive. You be inclusive. You should be including everyone in way like you like, do you want me to pick out different types of kind of subgroup? I just don't think I'd feel comfortable saying, well, if you make sure you include the women.

Adam (30:23.844)

I guess I'm just tro -

Adam (30:29.412)

I guess it's just trying to give some adv -

Adam (30:41.092)

No, no, no, sorry, not. No, no, no, I didn't mean that. Sorry. I meant in terms of actually how you include them. Like what, what, what's, you know, is it through surveys? Is it through involving them in focus groups? Yeah. How do you.

And it doesn't have to be throughout the whole process, but it's just a few opportune moments where you have to ensure, because it's all well and good saying, I want to include everyone from the CEO down to the office manager throughout. Well, that's not realistically how that's going to work because the CEO is only going to be available for half an hour a week and the office manager. So it's like, how do you go about ensuring best representation? How do you include everyone? And a few examples, again, anonymously is fine.

Does that help explain?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (31:26.126)

Yeah. Yeah, okay, fine. So I think the way that you can, I think those change agents are actually really key at this moment to making sure everyone is included and all voices are heard. So obviously,

if it is a seismic change in a small business, starting off by having some type of all hands where the CEO or the kind of assigned leader needs to be able to share what is happening, why that is happening, their aspirations, how it is going to happen so that you're getting that vision very much from the top. But then,

knowing that there are people at different levels and being able to have a relatively rigid structure so that everyone is being treated in the same way, but in a way that is applicable to them. So like you said, having surveys, having regular feedback meetings, even I've seen work really well having an anonymous way to be able to feedback because often we feel that perhaps we don't want to share fully our experience because we might be judged for that.

even in very safe environments. So having an anonymous way to give feedback, I've seen work really well. Actually, I think it's really good to generate short term wins as well that are applicable at different levels so that people feel, you know, as part of change, you need that motivation and achievement cycle. It's very hard to get a car moving from standstill when the battery is not working. But once it's moving, you've got

those wheels in motion and I think you need to keep those wheels in motion at every level. So having appropriate and achievable goals that can then be shared company -wide and are specific to different...

Alice Olins Step Up Club (33:15.886)

teams and groups works really well because then everyone feels that they are part of the machinery of change even if they are their team isn't specifically impacted in a certain I don't know part of the change process. So yeah having those kind of specific goals a way of sharing that collectively anonymous feedback and a relatively rigid structure of meetings either

from the top or in kind of the different pillars within the company, I think it's really important too. And actually having some type of time scale so that people understand, you know, I read a really interesting article on transformation the other day and how transformation teams tend to have quite a low success rate.

And it isn't that they fail, but actually there never seems to be a specific end point to the transformation that companies want to instigate. And so the teams, because they tend to be consultant led or they have been consultants, they will come in and try to generate a lot of change or make transformations within companies. It's hard to get people on board if they feel that that's maybe not to their best ends.

Adam (34:25.54)

Hmm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (34:44.878)

But that energy peters out often if there isn't an end point. So I think that timeline is very important as well and being able to mark certain stages in the change so that people know what is coming because otherwise the energy can go and the impetus can go and it can just peter out to nothing. And I think that's when so in this article it wasn't around transformation teams failing but

them not having a positive result. So it was somewhere in the middle, like stuff was done, but no one could really articulate what had changed, even though there had been improvements instigated by these transformation teams. And I think part of that was it just became open -ended. And so then how do you measure the success of that change? So I think actually making sure there are points at which you can stop and measure and then be able to articulate where you are at.

Adam (35:29.764)

Mm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (35:39.726)

why maybe there might be tweaks within that change process and how that's going to impact different people at those points. So that's the communication bit as well, but across quite a rigid framework I think is important.

Adam (35:50.02)

Yeah.

Adam (35:55.268)

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that's...

I think you hit the nail on the head there in terms of having that timeframe, having those milestones within that and then celebrating achieving those goals. It keeps the momentum, right? It keeps positive cause it's positive mindset around the change. Well, just, I guess the final point on this and then we'll move towards wrapping up, but you mentioned there about transformation teams. I'm interested again with a view to small businesses where you have perhaps the people doing the day job are also managing the change.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (36:27.106)

Mm -hmm.

Adam (36:27.206)

and it's, I guess, a spectrum from that point to having a full dedicated transformation team to work on the change. How do you, how have you seen that work best in smaller businesses where they've got the day job plus the change to manage?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (36:44.942)

I mean, I think it's difficult. It's hard to be part of the everyday operations and then have the objectivity to be able to action that change. And I think they have to be given, I think it has to be articulated very clearly to them that they have this role.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (37:11.63)

Actually.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (37:16.078)

I'm just getting a bit general.

Adam (37:16.292)

I guess it's the, no, no, that's fine. I think it's fine to be high level in general is okay. Cause I think it's about ensuring that they are aware of their dual responsibility, but also ensuring that they've got the head space, the bandwidth, like the time, frankly, to do both jobs well, right?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (37:35.63)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, okay, I can do that again. Because I think you're right. I think the point is around actually supporting them through that in terms of their capacity, rather than empowering them with that position. I mean, yes, okay. Will you ask me the question again, so I can just follow on?

Adam (37:58.916)

I tried to, yeah. In terms of the, you mentioned before about transitional teams and the need to have an end point and to have a roadmap, et cetera. And I'd be interested in your experience of how it's worked in smaller businesses where you don't necessarily have a transitional team, but you have the people doing the day job also responsible for the change and how that can work well in, or how you've seen it work well in smaller businesses.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (38:28.302)

Yeah, so I think there's kind of two facets to that answer. I think number one is being able to empower them with knowledge. So obviously at the highest level of really understanding why this is happening, they're obviously going to be a default point of contact for others. And so making sure that they are fully informed about what, why, where, when, how, et cetera, but also supporting them through presumably the higher workload and a different type of workload.

And it might be about resourcing some of their other jobs to different team members to be able to give them that bandwidth and to be able to be the agents of change. Because, you know, we've already talked about how energy zapping change can be and how it needs to be a process at many levels internally in terms of mindset, in terms of learning new skills. You know, when...

people start new jobs, we give them a hundred days grace to be able to get to the point where they need to be or be near the point where they need to be. And a lot of that is around coping with the minutiae of change. So finding where that exit's finding, you know, meeting all these new people. And I think understanding that navigating and helping to implement change.

is an extra drain and a different drain and being able to recognise that for your change agents and being able to offer them extra support, whether that's, like I said, kind of, you know, resourcing some of their day -to -day stuff to other team members or being able to support them with one -to -one coaching or extra training. And that doesn't always have to be...

massively financially onerous, it doesn't have to be some type of huge budget. But actually, often it's just the simple act of showing those people that you are investing in them. And that can be about putting them on a couple of days training, or like I said, getting them a coach to help support them through this process. You're getting the benefit of the learning and the support, but you're also getting the benefit of that person feeling like

Alice Olins Step Up Club (40:46.638)

my company believes in me and they're investing in me and they're not just, you know, chucking me into these choppy waters, but they're doing it and supporting me at the same time. And I think that goes a long way in terms of ongoing engagement and retention within the company too.

Adam (41:04.196)

Yeah, no, that's a great answer. I think as you say, it's investing in those change agents, investing in your team and back to one of your earlier points about leadership and about empathy and putting yourself in the shoes of the team members and making sure that you're giving them the best chance of success and therefore, the change project itself, the best chance of success. That's great.

Okay, perfect. Moving and changing tack slightly to what I call our business book bonus section, which is where we ask our guests to provide us with a recommendation for the audience of a business book or to make it a bit easier. Any business content, you know, another podcast, a Twitter account, something you listen to or watch on TV that's helped you during your business career. So what business book or other content would you like to recommend to the audience, Alice?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (41:53.614)

So the book that I recommend to clients most often is called Chatter by Ethan Cross. And it is a brilliantly accessible, practical, enjoyable actually read about managing chatter inside your head. At times of change specifically, obviously we are hardwired to...

Our threat response, perhaps, is more exaggerated when we're feeling more vulnerable, which can happen during times of change. And, you know, the most obvious expression of that is that our chatter goes into overdrive and it tends to skew negative as well. And this book is brilliant for helping us to recognise our chatter, actually validate it and be able to harness its power to be able to...

move through those times when you are feeling quite threatened and vulnerable and perhaps your brain is not helping you and is not on side and it gives you some really practical actions and just transparency and understanding around why this is happening, how you can recognise it, it isn't necessarily gonna go away and then actually kind of mitigate some of those voices that maybe aren't on side during periods of change.

Adam (43:13.988)

Okay great that sounds very interesting, very useful and Chatter by Ethan Cross, I'll put a link to that in the show notes so people can can go and buy it. Thank you very much and is there anything we haven't covered that you would like to say before we wrap up Alice or where can people find you if not?

Alice Olins Step Up Club (43:32.174)

Well, I've got another recommendation of, I think it was a TED talk. I can't remember. His name is Sean Acre. And his, I believe it's called the positive advantage or something along those lines. I'm sure you'll find it and put it in correctly. It's a brilliant 12 to 14 minute talk about the importance of having a positive mindset, but not in the same way that chatter.

Adam (43:35.908)

Great.

Adam (43:42.884)

Mm -hmm.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (44:00.974)

goes about kind of managing self -talk, but rather how so much of what, so much of success is made up about our attitude towards our work rather than what we necessarily know. I think his statistic is something like 75 % of success is attitude and only 25 % is kind of knowledge, experience and expertise. And it's...

funny and I find it's so he's so brilliant at delivery that it just takes a subject that I think that we all know exists like my attitude could probably be better and delivers it in a really pithy enjoyable talk and the comments on it are brilliant as well. There are so many brilliant comments associated. So that is just a useful fun.

Adam (44:50.436)

Great.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (44:51.374)

Yeah, kind of talk online. I think it is a TED talk that I would also recommend. You can find me mainly on LinkedIn, Alice Olins or at Step Up Club, Instagram, but not so much. And feel free to find my sub stack, which is also under Alice Olins at the Step Up Club. And I write a weekly newsletter. It went out this morning at 6 .30 AM and also host.

two live sessions a month, so one virtual co -working and one drop -in session to support women specifically for my sub stack in the workplace and also I work within organisations doing training as well so find me on my website.

Adam (45:35.428)

Very good, very comprehensive, thank you very much. And thank you very much for joining me today on the Fractional CFO show. Really appreciate your insight, your perspective and your time, thank you.

Alice Olins Step Up Club (45:46.158)

Thank you, Adam.