04 - Grief, Growth, and Gratitude: A Holistic Approach to Healing with Lisa Heacock

In our latest episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Lisa Heacock, a holistic life coach who specialises in navigating the complex terrain of grief. Lisa's journey is inspiring, having faced the loss of 12 loved ones within 22 months. Her resilience, wisdom, and dedication to helping others through their darkest times shine through in our conversation.

Lisa and I delve into the often misunderstood world of grief coaching, discussing how it's not about fixing clients but empowering them to find their own path through sorrow. We explore the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive people, setting boundaries, and the power of taking even the smallest step forward.

As we reflect on the journey of life, Lisa shares her personal story of facing cancer with courage and determination, choosing to live life on her terms. Her message is clear: grief and loss are part of life, but they don't have to define us. With the right support and mindset, we can show up and shine, even in the face of adversity.

🎧 Tune in to this deeply moving episode to hear Lisa's incredible story, whether you're navigating your own grief or supporting someone who is.

Powered by and edited by Mike Roberts at Making Digital Real

Transcript

Lisa Heacock: 0:00

The ones who drained my energy I just shelved them, I put them on the shelf and or I kicked them off the shelf like they were gone. Because I think when you get to that point, you realise actually, you know what life is really short life is really fragile. And I need to protect my energy and my sanity as much as possible.

Unknown: 0:24

Welcome to show up and shine with the UK leading life coach Carol Anne Rice, the podcast that is curious about what drives motivates and inspires people to show up for success. Even when the clouds gather, the chips are dying and the duvet beckons.

Carole Ann Rice: 0:43

Hi there, welcome everybody to my podcast show up and shine, which basically is show up and shine, whatever the weather and that's what I do. And I have done all my life. And I've always been intrigued, in fact, obsessed with how superstar people managed to put on 81 gigs around the world. And don't ever have a bad day. Don't ever feel like I don't want to get outta bed. I don't want to move from under the duvet. But you know, people are queuing at the box office. So how do you do that thing of showing up and shine when the chips are down. And I think we can all learn those tools and techniques and apply them to our own life because we have to keep going. It's not an option not to. And I'm really delighted today to welcome Lisa Marie, who is a holistic life coach. But she's more than that. She's a coach who's doing amazing things with grief. End of relationship grief, divorce, grief, and obviously loss. But there's many, many aspects to Lisa, and I think you'll find her a fascinating guest, and a really dear and lovely person. So welcome, Lisa. Thank you think, yeah, I really am interested in what you do. Because as life coaches, a lot of people don't realise the life bit. They think life coaching is about, oh, I want to get more confident, I want to lose some weight, I want to run a marathon, I will write my book and start my, my new business, actually, its life. And the the existential journey does come to an end. And so end of life and death is part of life. And in this society is not something that we're very good at talking about. But I'm really delighted that you offer grief coaching. So tell me a bit about that. What it means and how you got into that? How did that become your niche? It wouldn't be something that most people would want to go into. But you for you have you have decided to go into that world. So tell us about that journey. Yeah, so

Lisa Heacock: 2:46

really, it started by taking your course at the pure Coaching Academy and talking about niching. And for me, it was there was an easy part for me to choose. I'm all about action taking. I'm all about personal development. I can do life coaching on this, I can show people how to take action to create a life they love and that they desire. And they deserve easy. I can do that. But there was this part of me that was just like, oh, and it kept coming up this kind of grief coaching. I'm like, No, I don't want to No, no, I don't want to do that. Am I ready to face that part. And it took a little while on the course before I was like, you know, this is a part of my story. This is something that I have lived experience, but also have the empathy. And I've worked in grief before when I lived in the States. So it seems like I could have to kind of two niches and in some ways they kind of can go hand in hand. So the reason why I have this lived experience was from 2018 to 2019. So in 22 months, I lost 12 Loved ones through death. And so we're talking to my niece, my both my parents, they passed away 14 months apart. And then two months after my mom died, my son in law, my 24 year old son in law died from a tragic fall. And in between there were friends, friends, children, friends, spouses, you know, people that I was very close to and it just felt like every time I lifted my head, something else happened every time the phone rang. It was always something horrible, someone died. So I had never really had that kind of loss in my whole entire life. And then it felt like in 20 months it all happened. And so navigating through that getting a bereavement counsellor then I hired a life coach myself and then I, you know, just tried and grabbed all different modalities to try to stay afloat and keep going owing. And so for me, I have the lived experience. And then I wanted to then go into, I now have a grief certification as well. So there's the education but lived experience. And that's the trajectory that took me down this path.

Carole Ann Rice: 5:17

When when one is thank you for telling us your journey, when we have a loss, it can seem that everything conspires around us to bring us down as well. Maybe you're in a low ebb to actually have all those people 12 People die, one after another? How do you recover from something like that? And you did the right thing, which is seek out the therapy. But how do you pull it all together? How do you make sense of that amount of loss?

Lisa Heacock: 5:45

Yeah, it's when you're in it, it doesn't make sense. I remember, you know, and even looking back, I don't know if it makes sense. And, you know, in that is like, really, because it's such compound grief, you know, it's one right after another after another, and it is layered. And it's hard to navigate, because you don't know who you're supposed to grieve at that time. Like, it's just too much to do all at once. So for me, I think the some of the things that were the most important was one, I was very pro therapy anyway, and pro counselling. So that was my first port of call. But I also surrounded myself with my people, you know, those people who brought me that positive energy, not the toxic positivity, but the positive energy, the ones who held me up when I felt like I couldn't stand and then those who I always say the energy draining vampires, the ones who drained my energy, I just shelved them, I put them on the shelf and or I kicked them off the shelf like they were gone. Because I think when you get to that point, you realise actually, do you know what life is really short life is really fragile. And I need to protect my energy and my sanity as much as possible. Completely

Carole Ann Rice: 7:08

agree. I've watched you just go under and that serves nobody. It absolutely extraordinary how grief can unveil people who can't handle it? And good friends are not good friends. They let you down? I mean, they're not they're either toxically positive as you say, which is not what you want to hear. You don't want the snap out of it. But you it's not just that it's an inability to empathise don't want to or when I went back to work after my father died. One very dear friend wouldn't even talk to me. And I said, where is X Y Zed today, although she is around, I said, Well, she hasn't spoken to me. Can we have a message system? And everyone used to say good morning. And I had to say to her in the end, you know, grief isn't catching. You won't pick up something from me. You know, I just wanted someone to say hello. And do you want a coffee? She couldn't handle it. And that was a really good friend. And then someone that you barely know will come over. Sorry, I heard your news. Can I get your coffee? You know, it's like, incredible, really. And it's, it's almost like I was going to write a blog one time on how to be a good friend. I know it sounds a little bit how to be a good friend, like a coach, which is basically be empathetic. Sometimes just listen, please don't try and fix or solve. Don't cry with me. That's not helping me. Because otherwise, I'm looking after your tears and your sorrow. So sometimes just let me download. I don't want an answer. Please don't give me a remedy or a flat pack on how to deal with this. I just want to talk have a glass of wine. And I want a kind face. And I'm surprised at how many people can't even do that. You know? You're

Lisa Heacock: 8:54

right. And I think we're so we're so grief illiterate. I think we're getting better. But I think we still are grief illiterate. I think also it is one of those things when I talk to people that one of the worst things you can do is not talk to the person anymore. Like not say anything. Listen, we know that person has died. It's not like a shock to us. If you go your dad died, did he? I you know he died. So it's not like, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you can actually speak to me, and I think that's the thing that people feel is one of the worst things. I mean, I wrote an e book on how to support loved ones who are grieving. And, you know, these are practical steps, kind of the do's and don'ts from my own experience, but then talking to loads of other people and kind of put that together because it's like here's don't do this, which seems simplistic but actually, like you said when you're carrying other people's now you're now you're having to worry about their Emotions and carrying their emotions. And in grief, were also carrying, you know, like when my dad had brain cancer and I was carrying we, I went back to Seattle, and I was caring for my dad, I was also caring for my mom and my family and my girls, and because we're all grieving, so you end up carrying the grief of others, the last thing you need to do is carry the grief of your friend who is upset that you're upset.

Carole Ann Rice: 10:26

Yeah, and I'm sort of feel sorry for them, and you're handing them the tissues, you know, it's not, it's not supposed to work that way. And if you could just hold the space for someone to let them be, and checkup and I also thought, oh, once or twice a week, text, how you doing? I saw you want to know that people have your back. You don't want any solutions given to you, you just want to know that people are thought thinking of you? Absolutely.

Lisa Heacock: 10:51

One of the things I tell people is, even if you're not, you know, depending on the relationship, and you're not at their doorstep, if you send them a message that says you do not need to reply, I just want you to know that I'm thinking of you, I love you, I'm, you know, I'm here, if you ever need anything, it's just because it takes the pressure off the person not having to feel like after reply, but also, they know you're there is huge.

Carole Ann Rice: 11:20

And also, there's no timescale for grief, sometimes you can think you're doing okay. And then it unfolds like a bit of origami in a different direction. Suddenly, in a meeting, you will go down a rabbit hole, and it all comes flooding in. And you don't want people saying that it's five months since so and so passed away, aren't you over it yet. I mean, it, I may never be over it. I might know how to deal with it. But right now it's it keeps flapping around my door, like a black crow. And it will come when it wants to come and there's no formula to grief. And there's no template because every single person we lose is different. Whether it's also a pet, a beloved pet, or a friend or a colleague, or a parent or you know someone young you went before their time, there's no standard way of dealing with it is always a shock. And you never know how you're going to feel. So there's no preparation that can be done.

Lisa Heacock: 12:13

Now there is no there isn't. And you

Carole Ann Rice: 12:16

don't know how long. It's going to take. I mean, I remember someone sent me I'm good. After my mom died. I was thinking good. I've got away with it sort of thing. And then, you know, months afterwards, it came crashing in again. So the coping mechanism was like no, I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. And really hadn't been processed properly. Yes,

Lisa Heacock: 12:36

exactly. I remember when my dad died. And I came back to the States because I was caring for him. And I just close the curtains put my hoodie up, watch Netflix ate popcorn and chocolate. Like I just was like I don't want to talk to really anybody but my even my daughters, but really nobody else. Then when my mom died, or when my son in law Jack died, the curtains were open. I was like I need I just needed people I needed my safe people. So I even processed that differently. So you're right, there's no rules. There's no length in time. Someone said, How long will you be grieving? How long will they be dead? If that's how long we grieve?

Carole Ann Rice: 13:21

How long will I be alive? Exactly, exactly. It's something you go, you learn to live with, because it's part of life. And none of us escape this. And you know, you learn from each passing. And I think all healed pain is where you get your wisdom from if you don't heal from it, you don't get wise about it. So you have to go through the pain you have to learn. And also, I always find that a TEF makes you live life better. Because there's no guarantees love the people who are around you tell them you love them. Give 10 minutes to your cat or dog each day where you really pet them and appreciate them. And you appreciate life because it's not it's not we're not immortal. Make the most of what you're doing. Don't put things on, hold on. Wait, wait for another sunny day for it to happen. Do it now. And don't worry about what people think live your life. And I think when you've had deaths you think in your life, I am going to live for them. I do things for my mom now. It's like, she would want me to do this. She would always live vicariously through me anyway, so I'm doing it for mom now. That gives me the energy and the confidence to do things you know.

Lisa Heacock: 14:35

So absolutely. That is that is what happens. So when when we're for most of us, that's what happens. And I remember after. I mean it was time was leading up obviously to this but I also after about a year after my son in law passed away I sat my husband down of 28 years and said you're not happy. I'm not happy Now that we know we're not happy and life is short and fragile, so I'm gonna go and you're gonna go and we're going to and we we actually did the divorce amicably. We're friends since we were 11. But it shines a light on areas of your life, if you're really introspective enough, and you can see it and go, No, I'm not, I'm not doing this. I'm not settling. And I'm not going to have you settle either. So I ended up going through a divorce now, yes, that's another loss. I mean, for us, it was, it wasn't as painful because it had been long time coming. But we did it in a mature way. I think that is another area that people don't talk about with loss, divorce breakups, parental alienation, you know, pet loss, loss of a job. I mean, there's so many losses, and people aren't necessarily linking it to grief. So I think it's really important to understand that actually, any type of loss, there is grief.

Carole Ann Rice: 16:03

I agree. It's a kind of the unrecognised, silent loss of a relationship breaking down. People don't realise that you could actually even if it was a miracle, because I've been divorced. And I remember, I was thinking when I was sitting with the lawyers, this isn't what I planned for my marriage. And even though it was kind of not such a hideous break, it's very upsetting to think those hopes and dreams of that life have come to an end. And you know, other relationship breakdowns, you're kind of on your own with it, your friends get bored of you going over and over. And it can be as real and as visceral as a death when relationship because it's an end of what you thought was a dream that was in the future that was going to happen and when dreams die, it's extremely painful. So I understand that but also family estrangement. I've had two clients whose whose children no longer speak to them. And they said it's a living death without without a body. So it really appalling things that can go on, but no one really wants to get into it. I'll talk about it. And I'm really glad that there's someone like you there, Lisa, who will be there to offer hope and comfort and practical strong ways to move forward and deal with life as well. It can't be the end of life, it's your life to carry on living, which you have demos you have demonstrated beautifully recently, with your with your terrible health problem, would you would you mind sharing what happened? Yes. So

Lisa Heacock: 17:34

I, it was actually a year ago almost to on that to the day but March 2023. I went in for my very first mammogram. And then you get the letter, you know, a few weeks later, like, well, you need to come back and I was like, oh, and everyone's like, go Don't you know, don't worry, but I knew like I knew in my heart of hearts, what I was going to hear. So I was diagnosed with will quite a bit of precancerous cells and a little bit of cancer. But because the amount of precancerous cells on one side was so much they were like, we have to do a mastectomy. And I was like, I would have asked for that anyway, like, just get it right. Like in my head. I already had a plan from when I was younger, even my girls were like, I remember you saying mom, like, it was just the strangest thing. And so I was like, I've got a plan. So it'll be the 27th of April this year. So in a few weeks, it'll be one year that I had my first surgery. The other side was healthy. But I said what do I need to do to have that side removed as well because I chose to live flat. And I didn't want any. I didn't want any other implants. I didn't want any thing in my I just that's what I wanted to do. And they were like, well, you have to go through a psychological evaluation, right? And I was like, I'm gonna pass that test with flying colours. Okay, the only exam I've never had to study for. I passed it and flying goes like this. And I was talking to the, to the lady, she was lovely. And I just said, My children have been through so much. And I I'm in a new relationship. And he's been through so much in his past, like, we've had too many losses. I'm not having them lose their mother. So if I've got a ticking time bomb or whatever, like I want, and she was like, Yep, so 30 like 90 days to the day, so July 27. I had the other side removed. It's a day surgery. I was in and out in a day, like Monday morning, went home at night. And do you know what I did? What is it? Can I just say that it's easier being a patient than it is being a carer. And for me, I was it was so much easier and I was able to then have that positivity around me, I was like, I don't want any negative Nellies, like we've got this has been caught early, nothing had spread, I was so fortunate, I was so grateful. I got rid of it, it was caught. And in the NHS, I was just, it was amazing. And I was so full of gratitude. But what I did Carolina is I took the same tools, and use the same mindset that I did when I was trying to navigate all the grief. And so I was able to kind of use a lot of that. I was already bolstered up if that makes sense.

Carole Ann Rice: 20:40

I love to hear that. Because your is healer, heal thyself. So you was able to be your own best coach there, which is great. Now, people find you on Instagram, what is your Instagram handle there?

Lisa Heacock: 20:52

It's at holistic underscore coach underscore, Lisa,

Carole Ann Rice: 20:57

well, I'm putting people there because there are pictures of you being very body positive with your wonderful beautiful tattooed sleeves, and bare chested, doing things in the garden with your fist raised up with like the power, the power pose. absolutely astonishing, Lisa, but the other thing is I want you to share is that six days after the operations, you were back in front of clients, that is more than showing up and shiny. How did you?

Lisa Heacock: 21:29

Yeah, because to be fair, because I didn't have any other reconstruction surgery, I think that's where they say a lot of the pain is I know I have a high pain tolerance. But listen, I just had to reel myself in. As long as I told clients, I took a week off. I said, as long as I'm mentally clear, and able to support them in the in the way they needed to be supported. Then physically, I'm just sitting here, you know, do anything other than sit and talk and listen and ask the right question. So it was more about my mental state. And it was it was clear. So it was really important for me to have something to do. I'm a very action oriented person. So it was really important for me to just get on with it. Like just, you know, I took the time my, my partner, Darren, he created a beautiful garden, and he was working so hard, like I want you to sit out on the sunshine and the egg chair and all the strategies I want you to. And he created this beautiful space. And I did do that I did it quite often, because you're not always with clients. So I did have a balance of taking care of myself, and also taking care of my mind and still serving people. And that was hugely important to me. Hi,

Carole Ann Rice: 22:56

I'm Caroline, I've been a coach for 20 years, and I share all my incredible coaching tools and techniques at the pure Coaching Academy. If you're looking to train to be a life coach, join us is eight weeks of pure, fun, intense training and everything you need to know about becoming a world class life coach, we also show you the tools and techniques, you need to set up an amazing abundant practice to pure coaching. academy.com is where you need to go to see how to change the world with you. Doing what you do best as an amazing life coach was brilliant. It's a great example of carrying on and not letting whatever happened get in your way. Because you could have said well, I'm not going to work anymore. I don't want anyone to see me. I'm not going I'm going to sleep for a long time recovering and you know, some people need to do that as well. But what helped me was getting back on the saddle again.

Lisa Heacock: 23:48

For me that definitely was it. I mean, you have this drain, that thing is the worst. So it seems that thing is gone. It's like I'm out I get to go out in public and I get to you know, one of the one of the things that was really important for me was when I was delivered talking about the first surgery, I was like listen, I've got tickets to my boo boo bleh and I'm going so and they said the drain will be gone you can go and so a few days after my surgery like 10 days after my surgery I was I was listening to my googoo bleh and then having an amazing time and I thought I'm gonna still continue to live so for me, I know it's not that way for everyone and I absolutely understand that it isn't that way for everyone. And it is a difficult thing you don't want to hear the word cancer. If you were to have a cancer, I think this is the one to get because it's the easiest and it hasn't spread. However, I have literally had people one person who I didn't really know say well you know make sure you eat more mushrooms and like they were giving me all the things I need to eat because Is it could be Mr. Das deciding somewhere else in your body? And I thought, let's not. That is again, I should I write an ebook on what not to say to somebody because that's the battle. So the battle then is oh my god okay let it could be metastasizing somewhere out like do I have it somewhere I better eat more mushrooms and I better do all these other things. And I've had to really work on my mindset and to calm that nervous system and to go no, wait a minute you teach this stuff like this isn't? Don't listen to that.

Carole Ann Rice: 25:34

This also like you get people who have esoteric, spiritual beliefs telling you the person hasn't died, they're standing right next to you. Don't Don't cry, don't grieve. They haven't really gone anywhere. Okay, okay. The kinds of beliefs some of that stuff, but I don't want to hear that right now. It's not comforting. Yes,

Lisa Heacock: 25:51

they're in a better place. Or they're, I mean, all of those things. And that ebook that I wrote is that stuff, like the practical do's that you can do and help somebody but the don'ts and that is like, what not to say, you know, in a year, you'll be so much better. You know,

Carole Ann Rice: 26:11

you know, so yeah, keeps a Time heals. Time heals. Yeah, but you know, a minute can seem like an hour when you're in that place. So time isn't always your your friend.

Lisa Heacock: 26:21

Know Exactly. And in with death, like for me, it's like, it's been that many years. It's been five years since I've talked to my dad, it's been four years since I've left with my mom. But that's, that's a long time. It's been four years since I've, since my daughter hasn't had the love of her life. Yes. That just isn't better. That's like a long time. Dude, we cry every single day. And no, no, no, I mean, no, but when it hits, oh, it

Carole Ann Rice: 26:54

hits? Yeah. But what a lovely family you must have where you all support each other. You all know what to say and do and provide comfort there. Yeah, we're very fortunate. Tell me about this collaboration you have with a divorce lawyer who's now become a divorce coach. Yes.

Lisa Heacock: 27:10

So she has changed her aspects and being a divorce coach and more of a holistic approach. So she will now be coaching clients, but then referring to a grief coach, or a family therapist, or even a divorce solicitor or a wills and prorate the property law, you know, people that you don't think of the things you don't think about when you're having you're facing a divorce. But she can do it in such a way that is more client focused, and making divorce a bit more amicable, if possible. And so the alternative divorce company is a new like, it is something that is I can think going to be very revolutionary, you know, if there's a mediator involved, if there's other bits that can support a client, their children, a family to have a smoother breakup, if that is what's going to happen. So I, you know, the ethos of integrity. And authenticity is just really, really important. And so it's great to be a part of it. Wonderful.

Carole Ann Rice: 28:35

I wish I'd had something like that to fall back on. Because it's a funny old thing, divorce, it goes up and down again, just like grief, it creeps in when you don't expect it you have to put on a brave face and carry on. And again, people retire very easily if you're going over it. And that's even if you wanted the divorce, because yes, please, you're suddenly single. And that wasn't what was on the cart, and you may have been married for some time. So it feels very frightening to be on your own. And all that goes with that. So that sounds like a brilliant way forward. And now when you think about it, why haven't they done that before? Now? Why hasn't it been more interesting?

Lisa Heacock: 29:14

Exactly. You know, she's such a like, she's such a powerhouse, but what a visionary, and she's got all these visions that she's just been putting together. And so we've launched and we're going to have a launch at the end of April to just get this word out and can see it going all throughout the country. You know, we're not limited just to the Midlands. And you know, it kind of goes with the whole what I was saying at the very beginning that life coaching and grief coaching go hand in hand because that's what happened you we go through the grief, we go through the loss and then we start going now what and now it's the life part. It's the now do you need to do to live and that's why I was like ultimately both of those Those are the areas that I work because they make sense they do go hand in hand.

Carole Ann Rice: 30:05

It's when, when my coaching my clients and also my, my students, it's about developing resilience in life, you know, we are going to have knockbacks, there are crossroads, things don't work out how we wanted them to be businesses fail, you get made redundant. That's but it's how to have resilience when that happens not so that it bring you to your knees, you can never get up again, using it as an excuse for life that this happened to me, so I can't move on it. Resilience is everything. And sometimes the key to success isn't genius and talent, it is keeping on keeping on and being resilient head up, chin up, you know, put your put your put your, you know, special pants on or your perfumes and get out there and conquer despite the knockbacks. And it's not Lessing the knockbacks bring you to your knees and saying, you know, I will never recover. And some people do and I understand it's very difficult to recover. But it's, it's that the message is keep going and head up and develop resilience. And none of us are exempt from life's disappointments. So you so should you say show up on the shine? Lisa? What words of wisdom would you like to leave to people who are thinking, you know, I can't do this, I'm stuck, I'm on my own? Or how do I how do I recover? How do I show up and shine again.

Lisa Heacock: 31:26

I think that for me, the most important thing is to understand that yes, even though grief is quite a lonely road, you don't need to be doing it alone. And and so many times we think that we just have to do this life alone. And that is when we can get into some real problems. So whether that is you look outward for professional third party people that can help support you like a counsellor, a therapist, a coach, somebody that can can give you that safe space that's not emotionally attached to the situation, I think is really important. And then supporting supportive people. Like I said earlier, those are your people and those are the ones you should be spending your time with. And not this is another way of building resilience is to set boundaries and go nope, you're not you're not a part of this, I'm going to set you on the shelf or you're going to I'll kick you off the shelf either way. That is really really important. And I always say just looking think about what it is you need at that very moment. Like just one thing we can all do one thing and whether that means pick up a phone whether that is go for a walk, whether that is take a nap, you can do you can you know treat yourself to a shower, you know it's exhausting sometimes even brushing your teeth but like you can do one thing. Just something to keep you moving forward.

Carole Ann Rice: 32:58

Yeah, that's a great That's a great thought of one thing whether it's a bath or someone for a hug, have some comfort food the popcorn with the curtain Oster or Netflix, whatever is your tool and technique that will get you through the day have that one thing and you know what Lisa talking to you today I'm really going to love my life today. I mean I do anyway, but I'm actively going to relish and appreciate all that is around me. And it's another day it's it's pouring down. It's grey you know we can't do anything about the weather wish we could and you carry on and I'm wearing my bright colours and my red lipstick today and I'm getting out there and and you are an absolute beacon of living life the best way you can through the ups and downs. And how do people find you Lisa were so your website. It

Lisa Heacock: 33:44

is holistic life coaching.org.uk And then the Instagram as well holistic underscore, underscore, Lisa and I have a Facebook page holistic life coaching with Lisa Marie. Brilliant.

Carole Ann Rice: 34:00

And, you know, please please check out Lisa's website and her blog on how to be a good friend the do's and don'ts. We all need that you never know when you might need a little toolkit. And thank you so much for joining us today. The world is a bit brighter because Lisa's in it. Thank you thank you so much.

Unknown: 34:21

You have been listening to show up and shine podcast. Thank you for tuning into our latest episode. If you would like to learn more about becoming a coach, contact me at pure coaching academy.com In the meantime, don't forget to be divine. Just show up and Shine, shine your light whatever the weather