Rocks and Ages

Age meets youth as Mattea McRae takes us on a fun-filled tour of her nascent career in geology, from exploring the emerald mines of Colombia to searching for gold in the Kerr-Addison Project of Ontario. Isn't this how Indiana Jones got started?

The discussion lays a foundation for our developing look at the relationship between emergent thinking and inherited faith.

Thanks for listening. Share with your friends. Find this and more at cheynemusic.com/podcast.

Transcript

MAKING OUR WAY - A McMahon/Cheyne Podcast

Rocks and Ages (Season 1; Episode 9) - 1/10/24 

[music]

JIM (voice-over): Jan, Rob, Dee, and I are back with a not-to-be-missed episode of our podcast project. We've been exploring how we have made our way to this point in our lives, which brings us inevitably to examine the role of reason and faith in this journey. A fuller exploration of these topics will come in future episodes. Today and next week, we are laying more of the foundation stones that will support those larger discussions. We will join our special guest in just a moment.

[music ends]

JIM: Today, on Making Our Way, we have a very special guest. We have - not only is she a relative, she's an educated person.

ROB: Whoa!

JIM: And I'm going to turn this over to the lovely Deanna to introduce - who is our special guest today?

DEE: My wonderful, talented niece, Mattea McRae.

JIM: Mattea is joining us by video conference. And we're here in Land O' Lakes, Florida. Where are you, Mattea?

MATTEA: I am in St. John's, Newfoundland.

JIM: St. John's, Newfoundland. Is this your home of birth?

MATTEA: No, it is not. That would be Canmore, Alberta, on the other side of the country.

JIM: Canmore is right by Banff, right? Right by the Canadian Rockies.

MATTEA: Yeah, 30 minutes away, yeah.

JIM: And you're joining us here today to talk about a number of things. But your expertise is in what? What is your chosen field of study?

MATTEA: Now, I would start by saying I'm still a junior geologist. So my expertise is still developing. But I'm currently in geology and exploration, specifically.

JIM: I like that: junior geologist. It's like when you go to a National Park and they give you a hat. You are a junior geologist. Go out and see if you can find a rock. 

JAN: Can I - can I make a comment on the word “junior” here? Because what everybody needs to know is: junior doesn't tell you about her level of education, which I'm sure we're going to get to. But, it’s not - this is advanced education that Mattea has. [laughter] So can you just tell us where you got your bachelor's and master's degree?

MATTEA: Yes, so I started in Newfoundland. I did my undergrad here at Memorial University, where I did my bachelor's in earth science and I did a minor in geography. And then right after I went to Sudbury, Ontario, at Laurentian University, where I did my master’s.

JAN: That’s cool.

JIM: And why did you choose those institutions?

MATTEA: I chose Newfoundland - it has a really good reputation. I was asking around. I had family here. Like, the ones in BC where I was currently living, I wasn't sure about, but MUN [Memorial University of Newfoundland] had a really good reputation. So I chose that one mostly on family. And then I don't remember Laurentian. I saw an advertisement for it. And they had this $106 million grant from the government. So one of the main things when you look for your master's is you want it to be well-funded or else your project can get totally thrown into chaos. Like if you run out of money, which has happened to some of my friends, so they had a large income that you knew you could do, like, kind of anything you wanted, which is what I got to do. Any type of research for geochem, dating, mapping, like we had six months in the field, which most programs you get, like, maybe a week. So it was definitely a good choice.

JAN: That’s cool.

ROB: That’s awesome. Yeah.

JIM: Good. And when you first go in as an undergrad to study geology, do you have a declared major at the beginning? Is it still kind of open? How do you do it in Canada?

MATTEA: I think the first year is general. You don't declare it until your second year. So you have to take all your general courses, like your chem, physics, math, all the stuff - I - wasn’t - too - too fun. [laughter] But then you have to do the one Earth science course. And then after that, your second year, when you declare, you pretty much go to all geology courses.

JIM: OK. And when you chose geology, what did you expect that education to be?

MATTEA: I don't know if I really knew, because, like, at least in my high school and middle school, like, there was no geology courses. You covered it briefly in the general science class. I think I would just be staring at rocks all day, which I do a lot of. [laughter] But there's also a lot of other stuff involved. There's a lot of chemistry, which I didn't think I'd like, but it is one of my favorite things to do. We do a lot of 3D modeling. Yeah, there's a lot of extra stuff that I was not aware of, but I enjoy it. So I guess it worked out.

ROB: Mattea, why did you choose geology in the first place? And be honest.

MATTEA: [laughs] I was on my last year of high school. I had no idea what I wanted to do. Like, I always wanted to be - like, Indiana Jones was my go-to. That's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be an archaeologist running in the field. I did some research on that, and that is not what they get to do. [laughter] So that got pushed out the window. And I was actually - I lived in this really nice complex, and we were having a campfire, and I just sat down and started talking to one of my neighbors, who never talked to you before. And she was a volcanologist studying in Hawaii, like going - like she was the one monitoring the volcanoes, like, looking, like, for when they're going to erupt. And she had such a cool life. She'd been all over the world. And after I had - I think I was talking with her for a couple of hours. And after that, I was like, OK, this is it. This sounds close to Indiana Jones. [laughter] It's not history, but I'm still outside. She gets to do all this fun stuff. So I was like, that's it. That's for me.

JAN: I just think it’s - this is a very cool description, because I never thought of geology as joyful. I'm back in my, you know, high school. I can't identify any rocks. I could never do that well, Mattea. So it so impresses me, first of all, that you did it, and second, that you just kind of thrive in that place. It's wonderful to see.

MATTEA: It’s a lot of fun.

JIM: OK, now, as you're looking at us, three of the four of us around this table are of an age when plate tectonics had not really been all figured out yet.

ROB: Yeah.

JIM: You go back a little over 100 years, you've got this - Wegener?

MATTEA: Wegener, yeah.

JIM: Yeah, so he's got this continental shift idea going, but he doesn't understand the mechanism for it, and so it takes like half a century. And when we're going through school, plate tectonics was still kind of like, “oh, well, maybe; people have weird ideas.” But, for instance, just recently, we had an earthquake in Japan, right? - a series of earthquakes there. Did you know the ancient Japanese myth has to do with a giant - I mean, giant - mythologically giant - catfish that stirs. And that's the old idea of what caused an earthquake. And I don't know what they would do to appease this catfish. But now we know something about - well, tell us, why did Japan have an earthquake?

MATTEA: Why? I can't remember the plates, but there's the oceanic, whatever plate that is, it's subducting under their continental one. So just the friction, it gets stuck. And then eventually they want to move after all the buildup of pressure and energy. And then it's just like little slips. Like it's probably not even huge movements. They're just little slips. And then depending on if the epicenter is low or deep, you feel it more.

JAN: That’s cool.

ROB: Yup.

JIM: Right. So you've got different types of continental, sort of, interaction, right? You've got some where they just crash into each other. You've got some where they diverge away from each other. And then you've got some where they slide alongside each other, right?

MATTEA: Yeah.

JIM: Like out in San Francisco, we've got this San Andreas fault. That's kind of…

MATTEA: Yeah.

JIM: …a sideways motion - so one's going north, the other's going south…

MATTEA: Yeah. 

JIM: …builds up pressure. And then when it snaps, you've got, like, San Francisco in 1906 or someplace like that. But Japan, generally the Pacific is shrinking and the Atlantic is growing? Is that kind of the way it's going?

MATTEA: Yeah, I think that's correct. I can't remember now. What's the main like mid-ocean ridge that's growing the most right now? But yeah, if it's the Pacific or the Atlantic, I don't remember.

JIM: Looking at this stuff and discovering that mechanism is what kind of settled plate tectonics as the current best explanation, what we would call the theory of plate tectonics, right?

MATTEA: Yeah, well, I think it was discovering that, but it was all the fossil records that Wegener, I think, he put together where the fossils kind of matched and kind of showed that the continents have to - had to be together if the same dinosaurs were seen here and here. And same with matching the different mountain ranges and stuff. So there was, I think, I can't remember like five lines of evidence he used.

ROB: And Newfoundland was important in that discovery, right?

MATTEA: Yeah, it was. I can't remember now the mountain range. It matched up to somewhere in Europe. I can't remember which one. But yeah, the mountain range is connected.

JIM: So you're going through college. You've chosen geology. It's going to be fun. And then you go and you find “the real world.” What was your first job? And what did you expect out of that job?

MATTEA: My first geology job was actually with the Newfoundland Geological Survey.

JIM: Okay.

MATTEA: That was when I was still in my undergrad. So I don't know if I was quite in the real world yet. But that was a fun - just kind of - dipping my toes into it. We were doing research kind of in central Newfoundland, looking at different VMS [Volcanogenic Massive Sulfide] deposits, looking at some historical core records, doing a little bit of mapping, which was fun. I had an amazing supervisor. But I guess my first industry job would have been when I graduated my master's and I got my first job where we had properties all over Newfoundland. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed that one.

JIM: Well, I’ve got Google Maps. I know what mapping is. When you say mapping Newfoundland, what is mapping?

MATTEA: [laughs] Where we do - we’ll go in detailed or less so. We’ll, typically, we're using a lot of helicopters. We'd get dropped down into an area. I'd have like a tablet, like any kind of tablet would work. And you have different software programs. So I'd be walking around, come across an outcrop. I'd try to identify what type of rock it was, if there is specific alteration, the structural aspect of it. Is there any mineralization? Just a whole plethora of things.

JIM: So when you're dropped down in a helicopter and you've got your tablet and you're out finding these outcrops, are you the first person ever to have done that in that area? Or are these updates? What do you…?

MATTEA: No, I mean, the government does very detailed mapping beforehand, like the Newfoundland Geological Survey and the Canadian Geological Survey. It's been to most of these places before. And prior to this, too, we hired different companies. And they did what's called soil surveys. So they would kind of do these long grid lines where they would go. They'd walk in a straight line, take - like have a bag, a shovel, or an auger. They'd dig up some soil. They'd throw it in the bag, tie it up, and then we send it to get assayed in a lab. So we already had people kind of go up. And we were doing follow ups of this area, showed high levels of gold. And so we were kind of following up already on people who've already walked these areas, taken soil, had high gold grades, and we were doing follow ups.

JAN: I think of geologists as mostly working for the government, which is not what you do now.

MATTEA: No.

JAN: Can you just say a little bit about what your company does and then what your role is in that?

MATTEA: Yeah, sure. So I currently work for a company in Ontario. So we're a junior gold exploration company. So we're looking for gold. We are on a historical mine called the Kerr-Addison Project. So we are currently doing drilling, which are these big machines. It's kind of hard. You really got to see them. They have these long tubes, and they're essentially drilling into the crust, like into the rocks. And we can go down as far as - our deepest, maybe it's around 900 meters down. And then we pull up the rocks. And we're looking at the rock, seeing what's there, what the lithology is, what's the alteration, the gold. And then, yeah, we get sent to a lab. And it'll tell us how much gold is in the rocks. So that's what I'm mostly doing right now is core logging. But we do a little bit of mapping as well in the area and trying to extend our project.

JAN: So the gold is the goal, right? You're looking for the gold.

MATTEA: Yeah.

JAN: OK.

MATTEA: Yeah, we're in gold exploration right now.

JIM: And is it just like throwing darts at a map? You just dig a hole and maybe there's gold? Or are there signs, other types of rocks, other types of formation that would indicate this is a likely place for gold?

MATTEA: Yeah, for sure. I mean, where we are in Ontario is known as being a gold belt. There is a lot of gold deposits along, especially a giant structure. It's like a shear zone. So where two plates might have been kind of moving, there's just a huge structure along. And that's a conduit for fluids to be moving through. So the area itself is just a good area to look because we have this large structure. But then you want to look at the rocks, the age of the rocks. We do geophysics surveys. So you'll fly a drone or a helicopter. And they will look at the magnetic anomalies across. That helps. There's a lot of different things you do before you start drilling. Usually, geophysics is kind of like the first. And then you'll go into geochemistry. What I was saying before, you'll do soil samples. And then once you further refine it, you can do more mapping. And then once you're really sure there's something there, then you drill, because drilling is very expensive. So drilling is kind of like the last thing. Once you're like, “OK, guys, I'm willing to bet a couple million bucks at my own money something's down there,” then you do it. It is very much a last resort of: I’m very sure.

ROB: Yeah.

JIM: So the land that you're surveying and that you're mapping - whose land is it?

MATTEA: It's the company's land. So, in Canada, it's actually a pretty good system. It's all government - through the government - you lay mineral claims. So you can do it all online now. You just see a big map. And you can see what's free. And then you go to the government. And you're like, “I would like these mineral claims.” So that means we own the mineral rights. We do not own the surface rights. There are houses on some of these land that we're working on. We don't own the timber rights. So there's still - forestry can come in and take the timber there. So it's a very specific right that you have. So we own the mineral rights and some land rights. But overall, it's just the mineral rights.

JAN: That’s cool.

ROB: Yeah.

DEE: I have a question. What was your most fun day at work? And why?

MATTEA: [laughs] Oh my gosh. I mean, I've had - honestly, most days I really do enjoy. But when I was working for the Newfoundland company, I just remember this one distinct day, because it was just so funny. We were working on an area that was in the middle of nowhere. So to get there, we were on ATVs for an hour, which I love ripping around [laughter] in the woods on our ATVs. Then we get to a lake. And prior to this, we were canoeing across the lake. But our boss came and said it was not safe for us. So we had to get a boat. So we got a boat. So it was me and my colleague. And we had two assistants with us. And we got on the boat. First time setting up the motor, we were chugging along the lake. And then the motor died. And we were stuck in the middle of the lake. So I was laughing. I was like, “this is so much safer.” [laughter] Me and my friend, we were just having fun. We were drifting. The boys were trying to figure out the engine. I was getting a tan. And I was just enjoying the sun. Finally, they get it started. And as soon as they started the engine, we went right onto a rock that we didn't see under the water, and got the boat stuck. So at this point, I'm almost peeing myself laughing. It was just so funny. [laughter] The boys are like, really trying to problem solve. Me and my coworker, Laura, were just laughing. And, yeah, oh my gosh. It was hilarious. So finally, we pulled ourselves together. And Laura had the idea. We were like, OK, we have a lot of equipment. Piled all of our equipment onto the back of the boat. We all got into the back of the boat and started shifting, kind of tipping the top up so we could get off the rock. We almost tipped the boat, but we didn't. So we finally got off the rock. And the engine started again. And we made it to our area. And we just had a lovely day in the sun, mapping, getting some samples. I thoroughly enjoyed myself that day. We were just having a laugh the entire day.

JAN: Mattea, I love when you talk about you and your coworkers. So, OK, because you guys seem to just - I don't want to say it's like a party, but you definitely enjoy each other. And you seem to work well together. I'm curious. This is just - what is the gender makeup of your geology team?

MATTEA: It totally depends. My last company was probably like 30% girls. This current company actually has, for I guess the everyday, I am one of the - me and my boss is female as well. So I want to say maybe like 40%, because a lot of our analytical team are females. We have a lot of - we have a geochem expert. We have research associates. So we actually have a fairly good makeup. But overall, my everyday interactions is mostly with guys. But honestly, most of them are great. I have so much fun with them. They really are fantastic. We get along really well. We have a lot of fun. So actually, I don't mind it as much. I love my boss. She is amazing. I look up to her so much. So it's nice having a couple girls on the team and having that as well. But it's still good.

JAN: It’s cool. That's actually very promising to hear. I love that.

ROB: It doesn't happen everywhere.

MATTEA: No - yeah - no, it doesn’t.

JAN: Can you talk a little bit more about your work schedule?

MATTEA: Yeah, so I do shift work, which is actually the one thing I feel…

JIM: Sorry, could you say that again, please? You do what? [laughter]

MATTEA: Shift, shift, work.

JIM: OK, it was the connection. All right, thanks.

MATTEA: Yeah, there's an F in there.

DEE: Oh, no.

JIM: I’m sorry. You said what? [laughter]

ROB: Whoa. This is a G-rated podcast. Come on.

JIM: Listen, young lady.

MATTEA: I'll put it down. They don't fully describe what that is in any schooling. In your undergrad or master's, they don't really let you know what it's like. I luckily enjoy it. So I work two weeks on, and then I get two weeks off.

JAN: Great.

MATTEA: So for me, I love it. I get two weeks off. I've been doing a lot of traveling. I've been hanging out with my friends. It's been great. I know some people, if you have families or whatever, it is more difficult because you're gone for two weeks. But because you do that, then you - what we were saying, you really bond with your coworkers. You have to like them. You live with them. We share cabins. You're with them almost all the time. We have dinner together, and everything, and go out hanging out after. So you really have to like your coworkers because you are living with them for two weeks straight.

JAN: And then sometimes you travel with them too?

MATTEA: Yeah. I mean, we do conferences together, like down in Toronto and little minor ones. I've done most of my bigger travelings when I was in school. In school, you have - it's called the Society of Economic Geologists. They will help pay for trips if it's geology related. So me and my friends from school went to Colombia, which they help like fundraise and stuff for us. So yeah, you get to travel quite a bit.

JAN: That’s great. I'm going to ask a quick off topic question again. OK, your Aunt Dee showed us this picture, a video of you insanely going into freezing cold water. So talk about like what in the world - first of all, what in the world made you do that? And then, yeah, just talk about that experience for a sec.

MATTEA: I mean, again, I think this all goes back to: you live with people for two weeks and you want to have fun in the two weeks when you're working. So I'm really lucky that I have a very diverse group of friends. And one of my - is that my boss, the senior geo, he would do - every day he would go into the lake in the morning, like our cabins where we stay for work is right on a lake. So he would do nightly or morning swims to wake himself up. And he continued this until the ice was frozen over. He was still doing it. And you know what? I'm starting to feel a little like, “OK, I mean, if the boys can do it, I can do it too.”

JAN: Yes!

MATTEA: So it was a bonding - we got out and was like, can't let them upstage me. So we broke open the ice. And I mean, at this point, he wasn't doing it daily anymore because it just took ages to break the ice. We had a couple feet of frozen ice on the lake when we did it. So it took a while to break the ice. But yeah, no, we just - we did it for fun. It's good for you too, apparently. There's a lot of research on polar dips and stuff. So that's what I kept on telling myself. And after we had - the owners have a nice big teepee with a fire pit in it. And so we stoked the fire really, really high before we left. And we went into the teepee and got warm and had a grand old chat with everyone. So it was a bonding experience with the team.

ROB: Good for you.

JAN: Oh, Mattea, I don't want to bond with you like that. But I'm glad you did that. [laughs]

DEE: Yep.

[laughter]

MATTEA: All right, that was fun.

DEE: I felt the water as I watched the video. [laughs]

JAN: It was.

MATTEA: I stopped breathing. I was hyperventilating for a bit.

JAN: Yeah, yeah. No good reason to do that, Mattea, I'm sorry.

MATTEA: [laughs]

JIM: So you mentioned Indiana Jones. Now, first of all, when you're looking for gold - everything I know about looking for gold comes from American Westerns. "Treasure of the Sierra Madre," "Pale Rider." And there are always these shady, nefarious characters around with Indiana Jones or in these Westerns. So when you're out looking for gold or anything, do you ever run across some - I mean, are there armed guards around what you're doing?

MATTEA: No, my gosh, no. I have friends who work in different places in Africa where you will have a full security team. But, I mean, we're in Canada. I mean, the most nefarious thing I've ran across was a bear and a cougar. And in Canada, we don't really - we don't carry guns or anything. All we get is little bear bangers and bear spray. So a couple of times, I have walked up and surprised a bear, and you stay calm, back away. You do the whole shtick of, OK, where's my bear spray? Get the bear bangers out. The cubs start running towards you. And you're like, “go away! go away!” So that's about as bad as it gets.

JAN: You just freaked your Auntie Dee out, totally.

DEE: Yeah.

JAN: She did not know the bear story. Just so…

DEE: No. Does grandma know about the bear story?

MATTEA: Me and my supervisor, when I was in my master's, we came across a mom and two cubs. And he just came from France. And he thought they were cute and cuddly, which they are. But he was like, “oh, let's get closer.” And I'm like, “we're really close right now. We got to be backing up.” The cubs started running towards him. And I was like, “come on, go away go away.” And he was like, “no, don't be afraid; it’s fine.” And I'm like, “oh my gosh, we're going to get eaten.” But it was fine. They checked us out. They ran away.

ROB: Don’t mess with the mother and cubs.

MATTEA: Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, that and I've had a cougar stalk us in BC.

JAN: Oh, jeez.

ROB: That’s scary.

MATTEA: Where we were.

ROB: Yeah.

MATTEA: That was - I was with four guys who were all like 6 foot 5. And we were going through trails. Like, we were in the middle of the bush. And on our way back, we saw there was cougar footprints, like, fully following all of our steps for a while. So as soon as I saw that, I'm like, I'm getting in the middle because I am [laughter] definitely [unintelligible] do this right now. You guys are just around me. I'm not going to get eaten by a cougar.

JIM: So have you ever gone for things other than gold? Have you ever gone for any gems, precious stones, things like that? And then the next question is, are you able to pocket anything?

MATTEA: When I was in Colombia on - it was just the school field trip - when we were in the gold mines, those were actually Canadian-run companies. And so when we went into those, the owners were very nice. And they're like, we could take what we wanted to. So we were going down into the mines. I think we were like 2 kilometers deep. We went very deep into the earth. And so we could take whatever we wanted. So we took a lot of samples, gold, and different minerals. When I'm at work, you are not allowed to take any gold that's coming out of the ground. That all has to go… When we were in the emerald mines - those are all actually run by cartels. So that means they're not government sanctioned. The government doesn't do anything. I'm not entirely sure how it works. But it's all artisanal mining. So it's all kind of like anyone who wants to. From the town, they show up. They work for however long they want to. I guess they give a portion to the cartel owner. And they can take a portion. But yeah, it's not run by the government or anything.

The one thing I remember most distinctly was they were really nice. The cartel owner sat down with us, him and his wife, and was answering questions. And the day prior, we were at the gold mine, and they were telling us they have a lot of issues with artisanal miners because they would be coming in and making different tunnels that the structural engineers didn't know about. And they were having collapses because people would - there'd be a couple feet away. There'd be another tunnel they didn't know about because they didn't map it. They didn't do it. And they were having a lot of issues with that and collapses. So my friend beside us asked, “Oh, are you guys having issues with the artisanal miners?” And we're like, “These are the artisanal miners.” [laughter]

JAN: [laughs] Oh, by the way.

ROB: Whoops.

MATTEA: So that was funny. But no, they were very nice. Let us keep all the emeralds we found. So, it's working for them, I guess. Not very safety conscious. I definitely wouldn't recommend going there for a long time. I was - the beams holding up the shafts were rotten and falling down.

JAN: Oh, jeez.

MATTEA: And I was like, “this doesn't look very safe.” But it was really fun. 

JIM: “Doesn’t look very safe, but it was really fun.”

JAN: That kind of speaks to your life, Mattea.

MATTEA: Yeah. There's been a couple of those.

JIM: Well, Mattea strikes me as this person that - she’ll try anything twice: the first time just for the experience, and the second time to do it better.

MATTEA: Yes. [laughs] I love that.

JIM: I’m guessing if you're exploring where the mining claims are, you're off the beaten path. If you have to be taken for some mapping, how do you get there? 

MATTEA: So a lot of what we were doing in my previous job was we were using helicopters to get all these remote places. Because, yeah, a lot of the time, you can't even get an ATV or a boat there. Because if you've been to Newfoundland, there's a lot of swamps everywhere. So it takes a while. So we were using helicopters, and they would pick us to one spot, drop us off. We'd tell them to pick us up in a couple of minutes or hour and hop on and get to our next place. So yeah, it was pretty fun if you don't get sick. [laughter] Sometimes they do a lot of - they're the helicopter pilots. When they're bush pilots, they like to show off. And they do some pretty big turns and swerves. And if you get the good ones, they can pretty much drop you off anywhere. A lot of times, the ground would be too swampy for them to land. They could get stuck. So they would kind of go low and hover. And they'll be like, “OK, you're just going to have to jump out. You can't stop here. So stay low. Don't stand up.” And you'd kind of have to get the James Bond or Mission Impossible music in the background. And you can leap out of the helicopter and crawl away so you don't get chopped up. And yeah, you really get to feel - maybe that was my Indiana Jones experience. I will get you to feel like I'm on an adventure.

ROB: There you go.

JIM: I’m catching the idea that Mattea thinks there's a soundtrack going on with her life. And it's all action and adventure and stuff. So if you have to jump out of the helicopter because they can't land, how do they pick you back up?

MATTEA: Well, we usually have radios. And now they'll find a spot further away. Or say, “We’re walking in this general direction. Kind of find a spot over there. And we'll meet you there eventually.”

[laughter]

JIM: Oh, OK. It just seems rather harrowing to do that.

MATTEA: [laughs]

JIM: And who's this friend who was up on a mountain someplace? And the only way to get to the helicopter was to jump?

MATTEA: Oh, yeah, she was in BC. And they were climbing - this is - sorry, this is not a safe - this is not what most companies would allow to have in. And they were on the side of the mountain. And there was no spots to land with a helicopter. So they had to rest the legs of the helicopter just on a little ledge… 

ROB: Oh, jeez.

MATTEA: And they had to jump in from the helicopter - from the cliff. But again, most good companies would not have jobs to happen. Usually they have mountain guides. And they have pre-setup locations. This is when you're in the really junior geology jobs. Sometimes they're not really safety conscious.

[music begins]

MATTEA: But most are a bit better than that.

JAN: Jeez.

[music playing]

DEE: What is your beverage today?

MATTEA: Chai tea.

DEE: Oh, good choice. 

MATTEA: My go-to. But I've already had Earl Grey in the morning. So I just wish that was…

DEE: I’m having a fruit smoothie in my new individual personalized mixer.

MATTEA: Fancy.

JIM: Which she got for Christmas…

ROB: Boujee.

JIM: …from her husband…

ROB: Very boujee. Very boujee.

JIM: Okay.

MATTEA: Very boujee, yeah.

[laughter]

JAN: So what is your favorite beverage?

MATTEA: My favorite beverage - hmm…

JIM: …when you're in grandma's house, and when you're not in grandma's house.

MATTEA: When I'm in grandma's house, London Fog. My favorite, like making a good one. When you froth and steam the milk, and you add the vanilla, the spices. I love a London Fog. And when I'm not at grandma's house, I really enjoy Moscow mules for my drink on the beach.

JAN: Nice. So, London Fog - I know that our nephew really likes London Fog. So, tell everybody what's in that.

MATTEA: It's an Earl Grey tea that has - I think it has, like, vanilla in it. And then you have froth and steam milk.

ROB: Milk.

MATTEA: Can’t remember what the ratio is now. But with obviously water. And then different - you can add different spices. If you're feeling fancy - if you're feeling boujee, you can add more spices. [laughter]

ROB: That’s Andrew, eh?

JIM: There’s boujee again.

JAN: I’m old. I'm so old when I hear you talk.

ROB: I love that word.

JIM: The kids these days with their words.

JAN: Oh, Mattea, what a delight!

[music]

JIM (voice-over): So that gives us some of the background and experiences in Mattea’s life. But how do these inform her views on more universal ideas, such as faith and critical thinking? In our next episode, we'll get her take on the age of the Earth and the evidence for a universal flood, and also how higher education influences the faith by which she was raised.

That and more next time.

[music]