Jan & Rob preview their upcoming journey with Sandy & Russell Dobney to Tanzania, Mount Kilimanjaro, Ngorongoro Conservation Area and crater, and Serengeti National Park - a trip made possible through a legacy from Rob & Sandy's mother Kathy.
They promise to return, when, in a future episode, we'll compare expectations with experiences.
Thanks for listening. Share with your friends. Find this and more at cheynemusic.com/podcast.
Jan & Rob preview their upcoming journey with Sandy & Russell Dobney to Tanzania, Mount Kilimanjaro, Ngorongoro Conservation Area and crater, and Serengeti National Park - a trip made possible through a legacy from Rob & Sandy's mother Kathy.
They promise to return, when, in a future episode, we'll compare expectations with experiences.
Thanks for listening. Share with your friends. Find this and more at cheynemusic.com/podcast.
MAKING OUR WAY - A McMahon/Cheyne Podcast
I Dream of Africa (Season 1; Episode 14) - 2/14/24
Hosts:
Jan McMahon
Rob McMahon
Deanna Cheyne
Jim Cheyne
[music]
ROB: “For me, travel is the most important form of continued education. As the stamps in my passport grow, so do I, both emotionally and spiritually. By meeting new people and seeing how they live their lives, I see how alike we all are, and I’m reminded that this truly is one world. And that no matter what our age, there’s always more to learn.“
[music ends]
JIM: “Kilimanjaro is a snow-covered mountain 19,710 feet high, and it is said to be the highest mountain in Africa. Its western summit is called the Masai ’Ngàje Ngài,’ the House of God. Close to the western summit there is the dried and frozen carcass of a leopard. No one has explained what the leopard was seeking at that altitude.“ That is Hemingway.
JAN: Ah!
JIM: The beginning of “The Snows of Kilimanjaro.“
ROB: Oh!
JIM: Now, why would I be talking about Kilimanjaro today? Because you guys are planning a trip, aren’t you?
ROB: Yes.
JIM: And where are you headed?
ROB: Tanzania.
JIM: Tanzania. Why Tanzania?
JAN: Well, Africa was a lifelong dream. We chose Tanzania just recently because of all that we can see and do within that country. We wanted to focus on one place and not try to jump all over the continent. Tanzania has, I think, what’s classic Africa experience.
ROB: The Serengeti is there…
JIM: The Serengeti.
ROB: …and Ngorongoro Crater is there. There’s several national parks. The headwaters of the Nile are there from Lake…
JIM: Victoria?
ROB: …Victoria starts in Tanzania. And that’s the place where Jane Goodall did her research.
JIM: Well, Jane Goodall has been a hero of ours for decades. But this isn’t a Jane Goodall podcast. That would take several weeks. This one is your trip to Tanzania, which is upcoming. So to get ready for this thing, there’s got to be a thousand logistics. Is it a safe country to travel to?
ROB: It’s safe. Yes.
JAN: Part of how we know that is by going with a travel company. That has guided us in all the information we’ve really needed for this trip. You know, it’s not, obviously, it’s not the kind of place you can just get in your car and go. So we wanted - and because we’ve never… [laughs] Are you picturing how we could do that?
JIM: The Atlantic Ocean is part of the problem there.
JAN: So we wanted to use somebody to guide us and make sure that we got the most out of our time there. And so we are going with a company called Overseas Adventure Travel. And they have provided us with information that we’ve needed on all those logistics.
JIM: You often work through Rick Steves. He’s more of a Europe guy than an Africa guy.
ROB: Correct.
JIM: OK, so how did you come across this company?
ROB: Well, we’ve got friends that have gone on this particular expedition that we’re going to go on. Our dentist. We got a friend in Michigan that’s done this. I had several of my colleagues - teacher colleagues - who also after retirement, they took OAT tours. One group went to Antarctica with O.A.T. So it was something that sounded interesting. It’s more of an educational experience than just…
DEE: A tourist one?
ROB: Yeah, it’s not a tourist one at all. We’re very interested in the wildlife, obviously, as we’re going to see animals that are completely different from anything that we could see over here except in a zoo. But the culture that we’re going to be able to experience is also pretty cool.
JIM: Tanzania is like a combination of a couple of places.
JAN: Yes, it is.
JIM: Like Zanzibar is the “zan“ part of it. The “tan“ is from Tanganyika…
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: …which is what it would have been called when Hemingway was writing. So I’m expecting, upon your return, I’m going to visit your house. Your entryway will now be framed by elephant tusks and you’ll have a zebra skin rug in front of your fireplace. So what sort of, uh, firearms do you take on a safari like this?
JAN: This is not a hunting safari. This is an observational safari. We are going to see and not harm the animals.
ROB: We’re shooting video, and…
JAN: Yes, we’re shooting video…
ROB: …photos.
JAN: …and still photos.
DEE: So it isn’t the Sarah Palin tour.
ROB: [laughing] Yeah, right.
JIM: Good. So this is - what video picture-taking equipment do you take for a trip like this?
ROB: I’ve got a camcorder - handheld - and our iPhones.
JAN: We’re not taking a special camera with a mega lens. Mostly because Rob can get good video and…
ROB: I’ve got a really good zoom on this.
JAN: He’s got a good zoom on his video.
JIM: Right.
JAN: So we’re using our iPhones and the video camera.
JIM: Do you need visas for a trip like this?
ROB: Yes.
JAN: There is a special visa for Tanzania and we work through the company recommended by OAT. And now we are very happy. We got our visas in the mail this week. So that’s the only thing. We had to get a typhoid vaccine.
JIM: Okay.
JAN: We have to take malaria medicine with us. Well, it’s advised that we take malaria medicine with us.
JIM: So that would be in case malaria came up. It’s not something…
ROB: No.
JIM: It’s not a preventative.
ROB: No, it is a preventative.
JIM: Oh, it is. Okay.
JAN: It is preventative. We start taking it before we go. We take it while we’re gone and we take it after we get back. It’s like a process.
DEE: Not to frighten you, but I just had a student who in November went to Africa and she did get malaria.
ROB: Didn’t she get malaria medication?
DEE: Yeah, she got all her shots. She went with a church group.
ROB: Oh, that’s why.
DEE: Oh, that’s the reason.
[laughter]
ROB: Yeah, yeah. That explains it.
DEE: Because she said, “No, I got malaria.“ And I’m like, “What?“ It just seemed like…
JIM: No, faith can only get you so far. You’re going to need some meds.
JAN: You know, obviously, you’re going someplace where there is always a possibility that something could happen. We’re supposed to get an antibiotic for digestive issues before we go, just to take in case.
ROB: In case. They recommend an insect repellent with at least 30% DEET. I mean, you have to be careful.
JAN: The other thing that we do is they advise us to wear certain-color clothing. We’re not supposed to wear black or dark blue, and that’s because it attracts the…
ROB: Tsetse flies.
JAN: …tsetse flies. We’re not supposed to wear white or bright colors. Those put the animals off. We’re supposed to wear muted earth tone whenever we’re on a safari.
JIM: You’ve scared off 80% of the audience so far of ever wanting to go there. By the way, while you’re there, we’ll be going to Animal Kingdom over at Disney World.
[laughter]
ROB: Oh, that’s...
JIM: And seeing many of the same animals there. And we’re going to wear very bright Mickey Mouse t-shirts.
JAN: There you go.
JIM: What’s the climate like? This is south of the equator, but it’s really close to the equator, so that the climate doesn’t really change that much.
ROB: Not that much. They’ll just be coming out of summer into their fall. And it’s the beginning of the rainy season for them. So we could get some rain while we’re there. Temperatures range, they said, from the 80s to 50s at night. So it’s not too much different from what we’ve got here.
DEE: That sounds nice. It sounds pleasant, yeah.
JIM: Okay, so when you’re packing, are you buying all new clothes for this type of a trip?
ROB: We did buy a lot of new clothes.
JAN: We did. We bought clothes that have skin protection - I mean sun protection in the fabric. So lots of long sleeves, even though it’s going to be warm, we’re going to stay covered.
JIM: Is that for insects or sun?
JAN: Both insects and sun. Another thing we had to consider was luggage. On this trip, we’re limited in the weight of luggage that we can take, but also the specific luggage we can take. They provided for us a duffel bag so it doesn’t have a frame in it. And so that they can be transported easily because we’re going to be in vehicles. We just have - We can bring the duffel bag and a carry-on bag. And that’s all we can bring, and it can’t weigh any more than 44 pounds. Usually when we travel these days, we do not check luggage. We carry it on because it gets lost. And this time we’re checking because we’re using the required duffel bag that needs to be checked. So, I’m concerned about luggage getting lost. We’re packing to accommodate that. We’re going to mix our stuff so that each of us have…
JIM: If one bag gets lost, you’ve got the other bag with both stuff in it.
JAN: Exactly.
JIM: That is so smart.
DEE: It is. We should have done that when we went to Argentina. [laughs]
JIM: Suddenly it all makes sense. Like, of course, if one bag gets lost, you’re both covered by the other bag.
JAN: Well, I’d like to say it was our idea, but it was a recommendation from OAT.
ROB: A good one.
JAN: If you’re traveling with a companion, put a couple of outfits into the other person’s suitcase. So hopefully they don’t both get lost. We’re also using AirTags in both suitcases so that when they tell us it’s in California, we might be able to tell them that it’s not.
JIM: Excellent.
ROB: And the mornings will be cool. And lots of our wildlife drives will be early morning, so we’ll want to have something - probably layers.
DEE: That’s when you’ll see the animals mostly…
ROB: Mostly.
DEE: …when it’s cooler.
ROB: Right.
JAN: You’re right.
JIM: So let’s do American travel questions. What’s the money situation?
ROB: They take U.S. currency. So that’s all we have to - we don’t have to change money. But it’s called a…
JIM: Well, if it’s Europe, it’s a Euro. So I’m thinking it’s an Afro. Is that right?
[laughter]
ROB: That’s a good one, Jim. No, it’s not called an Afro.
JIM: And like Apple Pay?
JAN: We won’t be able to use credit cards for the most part. Mostly we’re going to carry cash.
JIM: Okay.
JAN: And they recommended that we take it in small bills, 20s, 10s, 5s, and 1s, new bills.
JIM: Why?
ROB: They said 2014 or later. They just have to be in good shape. And for some reason, they won’t take them if they’re…
JIM: Oh, OK. All right. You’ve got the money figured out. You’ve got your visas. Now, the next thing that makes travelers nervous is access to medical facilities and things like that. You’re doing a safari-type thing. How far away from a village, a city, or whatever might you be at any one time?
ROB: The closest city that I’m aware of is Arusha.
JIM: And that’s where you fly into.
ROB: That’s where we fly into.
JAN: Yeah.
ROB: And that’s kind of like a hub. We go off from there to Kilimanjaro, and then we come back to Arusha, and then we do the Serengeti part.
JIM: And from Arusha, Kilimanjaro should be visible, right?
JAN: Yes.
ROB: Oh, yeah.
JIM: Tell us about Kilimanjaro. This is one impressive mountain.
JAN: It is. It’s the tallest mountain, single, freestanding mountain on the Earth from base to top.
JIM: Right, because it’s not part of so much of a range of an uplift. This is a volcano.
JAN: It’s a volcanic - yes.
ROB: It sort of stands there by itself.
JAN: Theoretically not that difficult to climb, minus the change in elevation. We’re not doing that. We’re going to see it from afar.
ROB: I would like to.
JAN: Well, yeah. Okay. But we’re not.
ROB: No, we’re not.
DEE: Relatively easy by whose standard?
JAN: Well, it’s not a technical climb.
JIM: Right. You don’t need any equipment for it. And I’ve read that people will show up for it without any special training, just that they’re fit.
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: Okay.
DEE: Yeah, that’s a big keyword. Yeah.
JIM: Okay, so when you’re traveling, are you - just the two of you - finding your way from here to there? Did you have to hire out guides? You’re part of a tour group, isn’t it?
ROB: Right.
JAN: Yeah.
JIM: How many are in the group?
ROB: 13?
JAN: It’s around 13 to 16. That’s one of the reasons we chose OAT, is, they do small group. But we’re also going along with our family members. So we’re going with Rob’s sister, Sandy, and her husband, Russell. So the four of us will be part of this group.
ROB: Right.
JIM: Do you have to pass some sort of health measure, fitness measure, with this company for them to accept you as guests?
ROB: No.
JAN: No, but they give you the guidelines of what you should be able to do - if we were wheelchair bound, if we needed a walker - they tell you about how long you need to be able to walk a day.
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: And the biggest warning really isn’t walking. It’s being able to ride on a bumpy road over a period of time. That’s going to be really the most difficult thing we do.
JIM: So looking over the guests that are going to be with you in this group of 16 or so, do you know what the age range is of those guests? Or let me ask it another way. Do you know who the oldest person on this trip could be? Let me ask this another way. Perhaps this is for Jan. Do you know who the oldest person in this group might be?
JAN: It could be me. It possibly it could be me.
ROB: I doubt it.
JAN: Obviously…
JIM: You see, if you are the oldest person they’ve got, they won’t have any restrictions at all. They’ll be able to do anything they want because you guys are in shape.
ROB: You know, the videos that we’ve seen, we’ve watched several. And most of the people are elderly.
DEE: Really?
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: I think that’s because a lot of - this is a time of our lives, I know, just being in retirement here, where we have the freedom.
DEE: That’s true.
JAN: We actually have the resources…
ROB: Resources.
JAN: …for the most part to do this. So that comes together for people our age. And also, it’s the time of the year. This is not a time of year for kids to be on the tour. Though, OAT would take kids. It’s just - it’s not likely - they’re going to be in school. So - if their parents are responsible people.
JIM: Actually, on the pamphlet you sent, I looked over the names. And all names pair up with someone else from the same state. So it seems like a lot of friends are going. They may be partners. I can’t tell. The only same last names are you and the Dobneys. From what I’ve heard from your other trips, you quickly become bonded with people that you’re with, and you stay in contact with them afterwards.
JAN: I think that’s especially going to be true on this trip, because this trip is a limited number, and we’re sort of doing everything together. I’m going to find - I mean, the last two times we’ve done this, when we’ve done Rick Steves tours, there have been people that we’ve kept in touch with, and I expect that will happen here too. OAT is a good company to go with if you’re a solo traveler. A lot of other travel companies charge you extra. If you want to stay by yourself as a solo traveler, you’re going to have to pay that other person’s cost that would normally be in the room. And that’s not the case with OAT.
DEE: That doesn’t sound fair.
JAN: Well, if you’re going to take a room that would normally be for two people, that’s the deal.
DEE: Yeah, right.
JAN: But OAT doesn’t do that. Actually, I’d like to say a few things about OAT, and again, more about why we chose them, because…
JIM: So OAT is O-A-T. That’s the acronym for…?
JAN: Overseas Adventure Travel.
JIM: Okay.
JAN: And a little bit about why we chose them, because there are other groups that do this, but they have an ethic that aligns with our travel ethic.
JIM: Well, you mentioned something about it has an educational component, right? Is that part of their vision, their mission?
ROB: Yes. They’re associated with Grand Circle Foundation, which was started by Harriet Lewis and her husband. And evidently he’s passed, but she is the chairman of the Grand Circle Foundation. There was a quote - this will give you an idea. She says, “For me, travel is the most important form of continued education. As the stamps in my passport grow, so do I, both emotionally and spiritually. By meeting new people and seeing how they live their lives, I see how alike we all are, and I’m reminded that this truly is one world, and that no matter what our age, there’s always more to learn.“ So we really like that. And so, incorporated in this - you know, most people think we’re going to go on an African safari. Well, it’s all animals, you know, it’s lions and tigers and…
JAN: Bears.
ROB: Well, probably not bears, but it’s going to be more than that. We spend an entire day in a Maasai village. We visit a home of a Maasai family. We can have a meal with them. We can help them with their daily chores, whatever they are. We learn about their culture. We’re going to have opportunities to talk about the things that they do. And some of them are going to be controversial, like female genital mutilation.
DEE: Oh.
ROB: They do that. They circumcise their boys at a later age - 12, 13, 14 - without anesthesia. They drink the blood of cows, of their cattle.
JIM: It sounds like some fraternities I could name.
ROB: [laughs] Yeah.
JIM: Now, you’re mentioning the Maasai. Of course, I’m very familiar with this Maasai, but for the listeners that may not know what you mean by Maasai, could you just fill them in for us?
ROB: That’s the tribe of people in this part of Tanzania that we’re going to be in. They’re called the Maasai tribe. They speak Swahili. Some of them speak English. I think they learn a little English in school.
JAN: It’s a male-oriented culture.
ROB: Very patriarchal.
JAN: They have a chief. They are herders. They are not hunters. I think they settled in this area around the 15th century - 15th to 17th century. They are very colorful people, happy people.
ROB: Happy people.
JAN: They’re known for their dress, their jewelry around the neck.
JIM: So the educational stuff will take you to a Maasai village. You’ll see some of that. You’ll be talking about some of the controversies and difficulties. Are there other educational things that are part of this trip?
JAN: Yeah, we’re going to visit a school, and it’s a school that the foundation helps support, we can contribute to. Rob and I are bringing school supplies that we can leave at the school.
ROB: Educational posters, flashcards, things like that.
JAN: Yeah. So we’ll spend a day, part of a day, at this school. Part of the cost of our trip is actually going to go back into this community. OAT is not the least expensive way you can do what we’re doing, but we thought it was the best ethically to approach our travel this way. So that’s where part of our money goes.
JIM: The city you’re landing in, again, was what?
ROB: Arusha.
JIM: Arusha. Since you’re both Democrats: [laughter] Tanzania is just south of Kenya. [laughter] Kenya. So I’ve got a question for you. How far away from President Obama’s actual birthplace will you be when you’re in Tanzania?
[laughter]
JAN: I heard he moved back there, now that he’s done with the presidency.
JIM: Sorry, the correct answer is 11,000 miles…
JAN: There you go.
JIM: because he was born in Honolulu.
JAN: Thank you.
JIM: Deal with it.
ROB: We’re real close to the border.
JAN: We are very close to Kenya.
JIM: Yeah, you’re just south of the Kenya border. In fact - I don’t know if this is part of it - will you be seeing any of the Great Wildebeest Migration?
JAN: We’re not there at the right time of year. No, right. It’s in our fall, I believe.
ROB: Yes.
JAN: Their spring.
ROB: Their spring.
JAN: We will not see that.
JIM: But the migration is a year-round thing. And when I looked at it, it looked like January-March is right at the southern part of the Serengeti National Park.
ROB: Well, maybe.
JAN: Well, we’ll find out.
JIM: Because they circle across the border. And I wanted to know about if wildebeests need visas. [laughter] But they circle around that area. And it’s a clockwise rotation that’s done annually.
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: And zebra are involved. I mean, all of these animals that are part of that, if it happens that you see it…
ROB: That would be awesome.
JIM: First of all, over a million years, this circular clockwise migration has been going on in this area.
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: Just imagine, not just that an animal has, you know, a species has survived that long, but this behavior has been going on for over a million years. And you would get to stand and see at least part of that.
DEE: I was wondering, because when they were talking about leaving educational stuff, Rob, are you going to leave any of your books?
ROB: I am going to take a copy of each of the three books.
DEE: Well, good. I just thought of that. I was like, that’d be neat.
JAN: Yeah. We thought that would be cool.
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: And he’s taking - tell them the other things you’re taking.
ROB: We’re taking two posters, one of the human body. I’ve got a box of periodic table flashcards, notebooks, pencils. I think we got some markers.
JAN: Yeah.
ROB: Colored pencils.
JAN: We’re taking a couple of fun interactive toy things.
ROB: If we visit a family, we got a Safety Harbor tote bag cloth that says “Safety Harbor, Florida“ on it.
JAN: That was one that - we asked, what should we take? And basically it was some small gift from where you’re from so that they’ll know, you know, who’s visiting them and where they’re from.
JIM: Do you want to talk about accommodations?
JAN: Sure.
JIM: Best Western?
JAN: A lot of times through Rick Steves, we would always gear toward locally owned, you know, family owned places, not the Marriott, not the Holiday Inn. We’re going to go toward smaller places that are locally owned. And that gives back to the local economy. On this particular trip, we’re staying in lodges, but also a couple of times we’re in tent…
ROB: Camps.
JAN: …tent camps. So they’re basic. We will have, you know, a tent, beds. There’s a toilet inside…
ROB: Right.
JAN: …and they’ll bring us a bucket of water each day so that we can take a hot water.
ROB: Hot water.
JAN: Hot water, so we can pour it over our heads. It’s going to be great.
JIM: When you said toilets, did I see air quotes when you said that?
[laughter]
JAN: No, it really is.
ROB: It’s a flush toilet.
JIM: It’s a flush toilet.
JAN: Yeah. So at night, like it’s screened, like you can open the flaps and it’s screened. So we’ll be able to hear the wildlife that’ll be around. I’m hoping that’s a comforting and not a frightening sound. [laughter] Sure. And we have - also, we know we’re not supposed to go out walking by ourselves at night. You know, if we need anything, then we’re going to call for assistance. It’ll be a safari. We will travel in on rough roads. They’re not paved. There’s going to be a lot of dust. Those are things that we were advised to be prepared for.
ROB: Dust or mud, either one, depending on the weather. We take several early morning and late evening wildlife drives. And we’re really looking forward to those.
JAN: In like Jeep kind of vehicles, you know, big Jeep vehicles.
ROB: And we’re also taking a hot air balloon ride over the Serengeti.
DEE: Oh, see, I would love that. A sunrise hot air balloon ride over the Serengeti plane.
JIM: Of course you are.
JAN: That was an extra little thing that we decided to do.
ROB: Russell really was excited about that.
JAN: Yeah.
JIM: Yeah. Cha-Ching. So I’m thinking, you’ve got these devices that are going to record. How do you power them?
JAN: Oh, well.
JIM: You’re out on safari.
JAN: We will have electricity.
ROB: Limited electricity in some places. They’re powered by generator or by solar power. We’re supposed to keep that simple. We’ll be able to recharge our phones and our watches and our cameras. Also we are taking battery packs…
DEE: That’s what I was wondering - if you were going to do that.
JAN: …that we can recharge. And I have to accommodate hearing aids…
JIM: Right.
JAN: …charging hearing aids. But we’ll at least have a main area where we can recharge things. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t work. You just have to know that it might not work.
JIM: Okay. So you’ve got all the comforts of travel with you. What about what you’re drinking? Do you…
JAN: They will provide…
JIM: …Do they provide bottled water of some kind?
JAN: They’ve provided us actually with a refillable bottle. And they will provide safe water…
ROB: Right.
JAN: …for us to have with us. And we can buy bottles of water if we want to. We need to be careful about where we get water. And also, if we’re eating at the camp or at the lodge, it’s fine.
ROB: Fine.
JAN: But if we’re eating out someplace else, then we’re not going to want to eat lettuce or things that are washed in the water. Fruit that’s peeled. Kind of how we did when we went to…
ROB: Haiti.
JAN: …Haiti and Jamaica. You don’t want to have some kind of digestive disorder on a trip like this.
JIM: No, not out on safari.
JAN: No.
JIM: With your “toilet.“
DEE: So there will be time in your schedule where you can go off on your own then? You’re not a part of the group?
JAN: Right. Again, one of the things I like about OAT, it has that same thing like Rick Steves. There are things we do all together. There are times when we can make choices.
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: And our guide’s going to help us do that. There’s an option to go to a medical clinic. There’s an option to go into town…
ROB: Shopping.
JAN: …one of the villages. We can go on a wildlife hike.
JIM: And would you and the Dobneys be making the same choices?
ROB: Probably.
JAN: I’m thinking yes.
ROB: We like the same kind of things.
JAN: Yeah, we’re going to want to see the same kind of things.
JIM: Okay, now we had earlier talked about diet restrictions or diet choices. And, Jan, have you looked into how you’re going to work with vegetarianism?
JAN: Yeah, I have. Actually, first of all, OAT accommodates that. A lot of times we’re going to be eating from a buffet situation.
JIM: Right.
JAN: So I’ll be able to choose. Our guide, we’ve already heard from our guide. He wrote to us to welcome us to OAT. And that’s one of the things I let him know, too. My only time that I feel slightly uncomfortable, and that’s because I don’t like putting people out, is when we do our house visit, when we do a “day in the life“ and we visit somebody’s family. I don’t want that to be a problem for anybody. So I’ll work through that with the guide. But he’s there to help me.
JIM: When you’re visiting a family, is that an overnight?
JAN: No, it’s just a few hours during the day. We did watch some video of other people who have taken this trip. Some people have helped with like - They have like a mud hut. So some of the people on tours have helped them repair their mud hut or help them feed the…
ROB: Drive the cattle.
JAN: Yeah.
ROB: Feed the cattle.
JAN: Any chores they need done, we can help them.
JIM: Good. And just one more time. We’ve got right here in the Tampa Bay area, we do have Busch Gardens for anyone who might want this similar experience, but with popcorn.
JAN: One of the other things, and I’m not going to remember the name of this valley. One of the other things about Tanzania is some of the oldest remains of humanoids.
JIM: Hominids, yeah.
JAN: Did I say it wrong?
JIM: Well, there are hominids that go back…
ROB: Right.
JIM: …beyond Homo sapiens.
JAN: Yes.
JIM: That are…
JAN: From this area.
JIM: This is a very rich area for that.
JAN: Yes.
JIM: Yeah.
JAN: And I don’t know what we’re going to be able to see or experience about that. We’re going to the crater, which is in that area.
ROB: Ngorongoro Crater.
JAN: Yeah, in Ngorongoro. I have to practice saying it. It’s just like singing the same thing twice. In that area, that’s where you would find some of these remains. So I’ve been trying to find out from our itinerary if we’re going to get to see that, but I haven’t seen that yet.
JIM: This is what struck me. Hominids a million years ago, watching the Great Migration.
JAN: Oh, yeah.
JIM: I mean, you’re stepping into just like almost primordial human experience. Where you are with this wildlife in this place that’s been populated forever, you know, in human - the human horizon, that’s where it is. I would get chills thinking of where I am, what I’m looking at when I was there.
JAN: Yeah.
JIM: I mean…
JAN: It’s, um…
JIM: I mean, Epcot’s nice. Animal Kingdom’s nice. But this is actually the real thing that people think about when they’re thinking safari in Africa. This is the place.
JAN & ROB: Yeah.
JIM: These are the experiences. And this is where animals live without much care about people.
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: They’re doing what they’ve been doing for eons.
ROB: Yeah.
JIM: And there they are. So you’ll be part of that, be able to see that. And you’re dealing with people - the Maasai people…
JAN: There are many tribes actually in Tanzania. We’re just focusing on the Maasai. I think we actually do spend time with another tribe, but I’m not sure which one right at this moment. But the Maasai are dominant in that area and in Kenya. In the culture that we’re going to be in, they barter.
ROB: They haggle.
JAN: They haggle.
JIM: See, this is another thing about travel. You kind of have to know where the bounds are for that.
JAN: Yes.
ROB: Right.
JIM: Because if you don’t, that could be insulting. If you do too much, that could be insulting, and so, where do you get your guidelines on what to do?
JAN: I can tell you the answer to this.
JIM: Thank you.
JAN: The way we were told to approach it is, ask the person who’s selling what the price is. Then offer them a quarter of what they say. Now, this is so far out of my comfort zone because I’m going to give…
DEE: Not mine.
[laughter]
JAN: I know. Dee needs go with us.
ROB: Yes, we need to take Dee with us.
JAN: So, offer a quarter. They’ll come back. I think you want to land at about a half or a third of what they originally say.
JIM: So, they’re giving a price knowing that you’re going to do this.
JAN: Exactly.
JIM: And then in between someplace, you find a happy…
JAN: Yeah.
JIM: …medium.
ROB: Here’s a couple of other reasons why we came to Lake OAT.
JIM: Good.
ROB: They’re supporters of a lot of the things that we are supporters of. The Stop the Keystone pipeline. They are involved in climate change action. Support for Ukraine. It’s real important to them. Support for efforts to create, preserve Bears Ears National Monument.
JIM: Oh, yeah. That was the one that Obama had established right at the end, and then suddenly it wasn’t anymore.
ROB: Right.
JIM: Right.
ROB: Yeah, they tried and - it’s still an ongoing situation. But support for schools and education of males and females, which we thought was really cool, in Africa.
JIM: Does going on a trip like this make you excited, apprehensive? Is it sort of like you’ve got a lot of confidence in the company, so everything’s going to be okay?
ROB: I have more confidence when we’re going with people that we know. I’m a little apprehensive but excited.
JAN: I am…
ROB: Mostly excited.
JAN: I would say I’m both those things. Apprehensive. It’s all unknown. You know, it’s not real tangible to me at all what we’re going to experience. If I see elephants, it will all be worth it.
ROB: Yes.
JIM: Is that likely?
JAN: Yeah.
ROB: Yes.
JIM: Okay.
JAN: I feel the same way about seeing elephants on this. I mean, everything else will be gravy if I get to see elephants. It’s the same way I felt about seeing the tortoises when we went to the Galapagos.
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: It’s like, “Oh my gosh.“
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: That was it for me. The elephants will be it for me.
ROB: And, it’s thanks to my mom.
JAN: This is what we have to say at this point. This is a bucket list trip, something you imagine as a kid that someday you’re going to get to go to Africa, and the truth is, we are able to afford this trip really because of a legacy we have from Rob’s mom. [music begins] That’s why we didn’t care about how much the hot air balloon ride was, even though it killed Russell to spend that money.
DEE: But he was really excited about it.
JAN: Yeah, no…
ROB: He’ll love it.
JAN: …this was money that was left to Rob and Sandy and Rick because of the sale of Rob’s mom’s condo after she passed away, and we decided that we wanted to honor her with a trip that maybe we wouldn’t get to take if we didn’t have that money, so…
ROB: Thank you, Mom.
JAN: …that’s why we’re going on this particular one.
JIM: Bon voyage and we’ll see you, let’s say, when you get back.
ROB: Yeah.
JAN: Hopefully March 5th.
JIM: Watch the news.
[music]