May the Fourth

Years in the making, we finally have Jennifer Hoosier as our guest. Her varied life has taken her from her student days at the University of Florida, to teaching in the public schools, to working at The Salvation Army's Florida headquarters, to teaching in China, to an appearance on Jeopardy, and to Kennesaw State University administration.

Recorded May the Fourth, so there might be a Star Wars quiz along the way.

Join us in delightful conversation in this, our season's penultimate episode.

Thanks for listening. Share with your friends. Find this and more at cheynemusic.com/podcast.

Transcript

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MAKING OUR WAY - A McMahon/Cheyne Podcast
 May the Fourth (Season 1; Episode 26) - 5/8/24

Today’s hosts:
 Jan McMahon
 Rob McMahon
 Deanna Cheyne
 Jim Cheyne

Special guest:
 Jennifer Hoosier

[street sounds]

(voice-over)

Today’s guest needs no introduction.

[music]

Because it’s Jennifer Hoosier. And if you don’t know who Jennifer Hoosier is, let this episode serve as your introduction.

[music ends]

[cafe sounds]

JEN

And this is where I say, officially, as an employee of the University System of Georgia, every opinion I’m expressing on this podcast is my own opinion and is not representative of the University System of Georgia in any way.

JIM

Since today is May the 4th, what was Obi-Wan Kenobi’s name on Tatooine?

JEN

Ben. Ben Kenobi.

JIM

Ben is correct. Ben Kenobi. Old Ben Kenobi.

ROB

Ben Kenobi

JAN

It’s a good thing you’re here. It’s a good thing you’re here, Jen.

JIM

What was Luke Skywalker’s home planet?

DEE

Oh, no!

JEN

Tatooine?

DEE

Oh, gee!

JIM

Tatooine, that’s very good. There ya go. What part of C-3PO is not colored gold? I should clarify. We’ve got nine movies, okay? There’s the original movie, there’s the original trilogy, and then there are what I call the “Deuterocanonical” movies. [laughter] You know, obvious forgeries, they’ve got some of the names the same, but they’re...

JEN

The Gospel of Thomas is in there somewhere.

ROB

They’re not in the canon, right.

JIM

The Gospel of Thomas is there. It’s just the sayings of Luke Skywalker. These questions will only be about the canonical nine. Okay? So episodes one through nine. And he did, in early on, have a red arm, but in the original three, he had on the right leg from the knee down, it’s silver.

JEN

Oh. Oh, okay. I’m gonna have to rewatch it.

JIM

There you go, just for that. Who’s the only actor to appear in all nine movies?

JEN

The actor? Because it’s whoever played Chewbacca, right? But I don’t know who that was. Was it Chewbacca?

JIM

No.

JEN

No? Okay.

JAN

You were thinking, aren’t you?

JIM

No, I’m trying to think of where he was in the first three. He could have been, but it could have been a different actor.

JEN

I only saw the first three one time.

JIM

Peter Mayhew played him in some of it, but the only actor to appear in all nine was Anthony Daniels.

JEN

In C-3PO, okay.

JIM

Who played C-3PO. Princess Leia’s home planet is what?

JEN

Oh, oh, oh. Oh.

ROB

Starts with an “A.”

JEN

“Help us Obi-Wan, your only hope.” Alderaan, Alderaan.

ROB

Yeah.

DEE

Oh my goodness!

JEN

That was a team effort.

ROB

Thank you.

JIM

Very good.

JAN

Yeah. “It starts with A.”

ROB

Hey, that helped, didn’t it?

JIM

Okay, so Grand Moff Tarkin, better known as Peter Cushing, threatens Princess Leia that he will destroy her home planet by testing the Death Star unless she tells the location of the Rebel Base.

JEN

Mm-hmm.

JIM

Where does she say the Rebel Base is?

JEN

That one’s tough. That one’s tough.

JIM

It is.

JEN

I don’t remember.

JIM

This is Dantooine.

JEN

Oh.

JIM

I didn’t know that either.

JEN

Yeah, my sister is so disappointed in me right now.

JIM

Listen, any that we get wrong, I’ll edit out. We’re gonna score 100JEN on this. It may be only 7 questions out of 20, but we’re scoring 100JEN. [laughter] In what was Han Solo frozen when he was handed over to the bounty hunter?

DEE

Oh, I think I

JEN

Carbonite. Oh, sorry. I’m sorry.

ROB

Carbonite, yes.

DEE

I was gonna say bronze, so I would have been wrong.

JIM

It looked like bronze. It was carbonite.

DEE

Okay.

JAN

Carbonite. 

JIM

Carbonite. Of the canonical nine movies, which is the only one in which Yoda does not appear?

JEN

The original Star Wars.

JIM

That’s right.

JEN

A new begin, a new hope.

JIM

Who killed Jabba?

ROB

Princess Leia.

JIM

Princess Leia.

DEE

Yeah.

JIM

Princess Leia. Choked him to death.

DEE

That’s right.

JIM

According to the Emperor, what is Luke’s weakness? I really like this question.

ROB

That he cares about his friends?

JIM

His faith in his friends is his weakness.

JEN

His faith in his…

JAN

That’s my weakness too, that’s, you know, why I know.

JEN

Yeah. [laughing]

JIM

On which planet did Luke meet Yoda?

JEN

It’s in the Dagobah system, right?

JIM

It is Dagobah.

JEN

Dagobah.

JIM

That’s also the name of the planet. Well done, well done, well done.

JEN

I don’t remember what I had for lunch yesterday. I just wanna say that. I don’t remember what I have to do for work on Monday, but I remember the Dagobah system.

[laughter]

JIM

Yeah, day-to-day stuff is ephemeral. We’re talking about culture of almost a religious fervor here. This is Star Wars. [laughter] Who said, “Would it help if I got out and pushed?”

[laughter]

JEN

I feel like that’s on the Millennium Falcon. Some - you know, they’re trying to get to move. Was that Luke or something?

JIM

But who would give a sarcastic line like that?

JEN

Leia.

JIM

Leia would, yeah, she did, yeah. “Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want the ship.”

DEE

Darth Vader.

ROB

Darth Vader.

JIM

Was it the voice? Was it my spot on James Earl Jones impersonation? [laughter]

JAN

It was spot on.

JEN

Yes, yes, yes.

JIM

Okay, I think I’ve got them all. Now this last one, the rules changed for this last question. Are you ready? Okay.

JEN

Sure.

JIM

I’m gonna give you information, and then your response has to be in the form of a question. In 2013, George Lucas said the Emmy for a cartoon based on the film series was the second award he ever won. I should have told you the category was Daytime Emmys.

JEN

Oh, I mean, what is Star Wars?

JIM

That’s right.

JEN

But they did Clone Wars? Okay, okay.

JIM

What is Star Wars? Do you know why I did it that way, Jennifer?

JEN

Why did you do it that way, Jim?

JIM

That was one of your questions that you answered correctly when you appeared on Jeopardy. [laughing]

JEN

For real? I don’t even remember that question. [laughing] I remember the ones I got wrong, very vividly.

JIM

You nailed 17 of them, and you had a run of like three or four questions in a row. You had the lead for a long time. This is so everyone - in case you haven’t seen the episode - she had the lead for a long time. And then, when it got into double Jeopardy, the guy who eventually won it, at one question, he surpasses her total to take first place. Jennifer turns to him and applauds. Well done.

ROB

Since we’re in Jeopardy, what was Alex Trebek really like?

JEN

[laughing] Well, there are a lot of laws about game show hosts and game shows and how they run.

ROB

Yeah.

JEN

The only time we were able to even see Alex Trebek with any sort of closeness is when they get that shot of you…

ROB

Yeah.

JEN

…that they show. And at the end, he comes over to shake the winner’s hand, but that’s not even, I mean, that’s two seconds and then he’s gone. So we did not talk to him, really at all.

ROB

Really? Geez.

JEN

Yeah, he came over. And at that point, he - I don’t know what he would have been like under other circumstances, because at that point, he would have been sick, but no one knew.

ROB

Yeah.

JAN

Oh, yeah.

JEN

And so he - we even said that day, ’cause you’re watch - I was the last episode recorded that day. They record five episodes in a day. And I was the last one of that afternoon. So he’d already done five. He comes out in between the episodes and kind of makes some small talk with the audience. And it seemed a little - he was very kind, he was answering the questions, but he even said, “I’m a little off today, because I’ve had some back pain recently.” And so he didn’t, you know - I don’t know that he was, what he would have normally been like.

ROB

So there’s no, like, “I spent five minutes talking to Alex Trebek.”

JEN

They do not let you do that because he has access to the questions.

ROB

Yeah, right.

JEN

And so you can’t really talk to him at all.

ROB

Well, tell - tell me…

JEN

He was perfectly nice when he took the picture. He did not - he very carefully does not touch you when he’s taking the picture with you. So he’s leaning in, he’s, you know, but he does not touch you at all when you take the picture. Which is very respectful, I think.

ROB

Yeah, well, sure. So how did you qualify? How did you get to be on the show in the first place? What’s the process?

JEN

So I have sort of wanted to be on Jeopardy. I remember filling out a postcard when I was in college to go on College Jeopardy, back when you had to send in postcards. And then at some point, you know, I don’t know in the 2010s, I realized they had changed the system to, you know, you do it online, you register for the test online. So you take the online test, then nothing happened for a very long time. And so I actually took the online test again the following year. I found out later that I qualified for the audition based on my first online test. So it had been a year between that first online test and when I was called for an in-person audition. And that was, you had to do another written test. So it was like 50 questions and you’re writing the answer with everyone. And then they did a mock round. So three people up there and they wanna, they ask you, you know, “What would you do with the money?” ’Cause they wanna see your personality. They wanna see like what it would be like. They wanna see how well you take direction because one of the things that we were told over and over and over again is to not say things like, “I’ll take animals for 200, Alex.” They don’t want that. They want, “Animals 200.” ’Cause it speeds up the game. And so they wanted to see how you responded to that. I did that in May of 2018 and I got the call ’cause I filmed in October. I got the call maybe in August of 2018 that I was gonna go. So that was it. I mean, there is certainly a bit of luck to it for sure, but it was super, super fun.

JAN

Oh yeah.

ROB

Sounds great.

JAN

So the pushing of the button, is this the hardest thing?

JEN

I was miserable. I was absolutely miserable pushing that button. You do practice rounds in the morning before they actually start the filming and bringing the audience. And I was the only person who they gave three practice rounds to because I could not get the button. [laughter] And the producer, one of the, the producer’s so nice. These producers that are there just incredibly kind. They’re helpful people - they really want you to do well - and funny. And one of them came over to me and was like trying to coach me on it and trying to help me out a little bit. And I was like, I just, I can’t. That was so hard.

ROB

You can’t buzz in until the question is completed. Is that right?

JEN

See the question has to be completed. And then what the audience can’t, what the home audience can’t see is there’s a, there are lights around the scoreboard and the lights have to go off or on. The lights have to go on, let’s say. And then you can, whoever is buzzing in first. So it’s not just you finish the question. There’s like a beat. And then you can buzz in. And if you buzz in too early, you are locked out for three seconds. And that three seconds is forever. So you might as well just give it up. Yeah.

ROB

What would you say is the best part of the whole experience?

JEN

The best part of the whole experience is actually after the - because I loved it. It was great. I’m so glad I did it. The best part has come after because there is an entire Jeopardy community, that I did not know existed, of former contestants. And I found this because after my episode aired or the week my episode aired and my name became public, I was invited to a private Facebook group for women who had been on Jeopardy. And the reason this Facebook group was founded is because women who have been on Jeopardy get harassed.

DEE

Oh!

JAN

Really?

JEN

And there’s a certain amount of internet harassment historically for women who have been on Jeopardy. And they created this community a long time ago to help women and to kind of let you know who to ignore, who to block. ’Cause these are known names. Like, “Do not accept friend request from this person,” and “Block this person immediately.” And that’s sort of how it started. I myself was never harassed. So, yay, third place. [laughing] But then it’s a community of just former contestants who keep in touch, let people - like there’s a whole trivia world out there that I sort of gotten involved in. But just like really kind, intelligent, thoughtful people. So just like, “I’m traveling to Germany next summer on vacation. Does anybody have any recommendations?” or things. Or, “This is happening in my family life. Does anybody wanna talk about that?” And so it’s a really great community. So that’s an ongoing thing that I’ve been really glad about.

JAN

That’s cool, Jen.

ROB

That’s really cool.

JIM

So when you put something out in the community, do people have to respond in the form of a question?

[laughter]

JEN

Yeah. Or they kick you off, they remove your point totals. If you go in the negative, you don’t get to continue asking questions. It’s very unfortunate, yeah.

JAN

You need to know your good friend, Kim - Jim says, “We’ve gotta find that tape; Kim will know,” which of course Kim did. Not only did she know the date, but she sent to me a picture of you on the screen on TV and her family’s reaction cheering you on. So I thought, “Now that’s a friend right there.”

JEN

Kim is excellent. I’m surprised you found a video because they - those are copyrighted and they take them off online whenever they pop up.

JAN

Jim found it, or I…

JIM

I really can’t talk about that. [laughter]

JEN

Right, right, right. Can’t develop that. But Kim, I mean, I stayed with Kim when I auditioned and she was always my biggest cheerleader. Kim’s always everyone’s biggest cheerleader for sure.

JAN

One of the things we haven’t done in talking to you, Jen, is we haven’t actually introduced you or [laughter] which I know Jim can cover when we start the actual podcast, when he records it. I mean, when he posts it. But we should talk just for a second about how we know you. So we’re thinking we all know you because of your time in Florida working for the Salvation Army. Can you just talk for a second about what that job was and…

JEN

A zillion lifetimes ago [laughing] I was the Assistant Divisional Music Director for Florida, for the Florida Division, 2001 to 2004, the three years. So I taught public school for all of a year before running away. So I graduated from UF with my degree in 2000. And so my friends are coming up, right? Like, I mean, it’s still a while away, but some of my friends are 24 years in and they’re all just like, well, you know, they’re all like, “Please, just get me through six more years, so I can do that.” So I was the ADMD for three years. They bought a new building, they built a whole new building, and my last day as ADMD was the first day in the new building.

JAN

Oh, my gosh.

JEN

So I put a box on the desk and then it was fine. [laughing] Like, okay, great. Someone else can do this.

JAN

So then after that, you went off, there may be some stuff in between there, but then you went off to live in another country and do something else.

JEN

There is nothing in between there. I put that box on the desk and I went to China like three days.

ROB

China. Tell me, Jen, why do you hate America?

JEN

Yeah. Yes, why? So yeah, so I was in China for four years from 2004 to 2008, where I taught English at a university there. And I both loved America at the time. - At the time. - And also really enjoyed my time in China. It was difficult in many ways, but I enjoyed my students. I loved what I did there. And it was a really great, great experience.

ROB

What was the focus of your work? It was teaching, but…

JEN

It was teaching - backing up a little bit. I had had the opportunity to go to Argentina. We went there for that music camp outside of Buenos Aires and I had never really been out of country before. And I loved it. I loved it so much. I loved meeting people from other cultures. Coming back from that, I started to think like, what could I do that could be not here? That was part of the question. The story I always tell is that my best friend and roommate Kim came home one day and she had information about this organization that sent teachers to China to teach. And other countries in Asia, primarily China, and said, “Hey, Jennifer, have you ever thought about moving to China?” And I was like, “Okay, my best friend’s trying to get rid of me.” But that’s what I ended up doing. So it was an organization that placed teachers in China and other countries in Asia, like I said, to teach English at universities. Was a Christian organization, it is. Was a Christian organization, so the teachers that it placed there were Christians. It was not, I’m really careful to say, it was not a missions organization. I was not a missionary. It was known that I was a Christian. There was nothing, it was known that the organization placed Christian teachers. There was no subterfuge in that.

ROB

Is there no proselytizing or anything like that?

JEN

No, no like active proselytizing. I mean, if people asked questions, and that was part of the thing, right?

ROB

Yeah.

JEN

That part of it never really felt as natural or important to us. Part where we were meeting people and getting to know China and you know.

JAN

You never felt any pressure then as part of a Christian organization to do anything but teach the subject that you were teaching?

JEN

Yeah, I mean, I don’t know that I, no, I didn’t feel pressure to do it. There were certainly people in the organization who were maybe taking that a little further than I would have taken it. Not again, not like no one, because of the nature of things, like no one was smuggling Bibles in. You don’t do that if you don’t, you know. It’s really funny, and I probably talked to you, Rob and Jan about this, but I came back eventually less evangelical than I was going over. Like I would not call myself an evangelical Christian now at all.

ROB

Not necessarily anything from your experience in China.

JEN

The memory that keeps coming back to me is when one of my Chinese good friends, she asked me if I thought her grandmother who had never known anything about God or Jesus or anything like that was in hell right now. I was like, I remember thinking, I am 26 years old, I have none prepared to answer this question. And I don’t honestly remember how I answered. I don’t remember. Maybe I’ve blocked it out intentionally. I don’t know. Now, 46 year old Jennifer, I definitely don’t think so. And wherever that transition happened along the way, it happened.

JAN

You know, Jen, first of all, I can’t imagine living in another country that long. I mean, it’s stunning to me to think about it. As much as we love to travel and go places, I would have this drawback that would be overwhelming, I think. But I’m fascinated by the experience that you had of putting yourself in another culture like that for that period of time. And beyond the evangelical aspects of it, I’m just curious how it was, how your perspective about China changed over that time, or did it? Like, did you come out with a different understanding of that country than you went in with?

JEN

I went in with very little understanding of China, period. I had very little time to prepare really, you know, from the time I first sent my inquiry in to go to the time of getting on the plane was about five months. It was a really special time in China that does not exist anymore. China had just joined the World Trade Organization, the WTO. And also had just been given one the bid for the Olympics in 2008. As a result, there was really the spirit of openness, the spirit of “We are going to change our country.” And so there was really a lot of eagerness for that, wanting to show off the best of China. China is kind of known for like national campaigns. So that while I was there, there was like a national campaign to line up for buses in preparation for the Olympics, because lines do not exist in China. I mean, yeah. So, “We’re gonna learn how to line up.” And then they would have people whose job was to make people line up for bus. And it’s just great. It’s like, okay, that’s awesome. And it didn’t last and that’s fine.

So Jen, all this time in China, does this lead right into what you’re doing now? Or is there a gap in there? I mean, is that what prepared you really for what you’re doing now? And maybe you can tell us what you’re doing now.

JEN

Yes, yeah. So it does directly lead into that. So when I went over to China, I had to sign a two-year agreement, and then realized I loved it. But what I also realized is that I was very unprepared to teach English. So I knew that I was not doing the best that I could for my students. And so while I was there, I started a master’s program. It took me about two and a half years to do that program, to get a master’s degree in TESOL, teaching English to speakers of other languages. At some universities, it’s called applied linguistics. I think I was always meant to be a teacher. And I think I did music because that’s what I knew. But this is really what I was supposed to teach, and teaching ESL. So when I got back from China, I had my master’s degree. I moved back from China in 2008. I don’t know if you remember 2008. It was not a great time for job finding. I was looking for jobs. So I ended up working three part-time jobs in Atlanta for about a year and a half. One of those part-time jobs was at the university where I am now, Kennesaw State University, where I was hired finally full-time as an instructor in there. It’s called an intensive English program. And so I’ve been at KSU that way since 2010. I’m actually now the director of the program. So I do a lot more administrative work than teaching, but…

ROB

Teaching with those individuals from other countries, how does it impact your understanding and your feelings about immigration in our country?

JEN

So, I mean, it definitely has impacted. There is a difference between a student who comes on a student visa and a student who comes in any different way. Student visa students have to prove financial capability to be here, and it’s a lot of money. I could not do this. Those kinds of students in their home countries, we would certainly classify them as maybe upper middle class. But then you have the other students who maybe they’re permanent residents, maybe - to use the Venezuela example - Venezuela is a country where you can still have what’s called TPS, which is temporary protected status. It’s the same status that people from Ukraine were given after the war broke out. So if you were in the country already, and it was deemed too dangerous for you to go back to your country, you could stay for a certain period of time. When I see people speak so derogatorily, and it’s such an easy thing to say, like, “Don’t let people in to our country because they need to do things the right way.” Well, first of all, many of these people have tried to do things the right way, or they are doing things the right way. And if you are desperate enough for any option, I think some people have not thought that through. I’m not for open borders. I think it’s this really difficult situation, but I don’t think the answer is to continually deport people, to separate parents and children at the border, to imprison people just because they have tried to save their lives and the lives of their family members. It feels honestly very un-American to me. [laughs] I was like, “Have we looked at our own history here?” I don’t see how diversifying the United States is a bad thing.

DEE

Have you seen a lot of Ukrainians? Or more Ukrainians coming in? ’Cause I know I teach high school and I’ve got goodness about three or four Ukrainian kids over the last two years. And I know there’s more at my school, but I’m just wondering if you’ve noticed that.

JEN

Yeah, we’ve definitely had more. It is really, I mean, it was really hard to get here, but yes, I have an instructor who is Ukrainian. She’s lived in the U.S. for, oh gosh, 10 years now, but her family’s still in Kiev. And then I also have - but we’ve had students who have come, a couple of students have come for the short-term program. They just wanna - and one of them said, she was young, she was very young, she said, her parents just wanted her to leave the country for a little bit. So she stayed with relatives here for a period of time and took classes. And then we do have a community ESL program, which is not the academic program. That’s for anyone, it’s only three hours a week, that sort of thing. It’s really low cost, but we’ve had a number of Ukrainian students in that program. And if they come for under specific, I think it’s humanitarian parole, that’s the status they have to take certain classes while they’re here. And they have to have a sponsor. So they’re living with Americans who have sponsored them, but they’ve studied some English with us as well. So yes, we have had more students for sure.

ROB

You doing anything musically these days, Jen?

JEN

Oh, wow, not really. And I do miss it in a lot of ways. I would love to sing. I would love to sing in a choir again. I belong to an Episcopal congregation here, as you all know, and Episcopal choirs are not my cup of tea to sing in. I have sung with them a couple of times and I’ve never sung in modes so much since like first year theory class in college. And I don’t need to sing in modes. I don’t need to do that. I don’t need to chant.

JAN

I’m sorry, you’re in more of a high church, Episcopal church.

JEN

I am, I am in a high church. It’s a sung mass. So there’s a lot of that going, don’t want to scare anyone away from the little Episcopal congregation. But yeah, so I would be interested in doing something like that again in a community choir or anything. But yeah, and we keep talking about getting - my childhood piano lives with my sister in Kentucky, because when my mother was downsizing, we did not have any room for it. It would be cheaper and to get, to buy a new piano at this point or to get one of the free ones that you can find everywhere. But I want the piano I grew up playing to come down here and live in our house. So that’s what we have to do next.

JIM

Keep it well fed.

JEN

Yeah.

JIM

This episode with you is sandwiched between two episodes that talk about religious transitions. Last week we were talking about how people are kind of more identifying as not affiliated with any church. Next week we’ll be talking about our situation of leaving The Salvation Army. And that’s going to be our final episode for season one, anyway, and then we’ll think about season two some other day. What landed you in an Episcopal church? Was this Eric’s upbringing?

JEN

It wasn’t his upbringing, but it is where he landed in adulthood. Eric grew up Presbyterian. When he started college, he went to Emory. There was this Episcopal church that we now belong to. It’s called Church of Our Savior. It actually is called The Church of Our Savior, which cracks me up because the only church of our, I apologize y’all, we have it. And it’s a high church congregation in Atlanta. And because it is high church, it is actually Anglo-Catholic, which is a self-identification. It is not Catholic in the sense that it belongs to the church of Rome. It is Catholic in the sense of how it celebrates the mass and the different traditions that it uses. And that really spoke to Eric. So he has been there and he is a member of the church. When we met, I belonged to a different church that is Anglican. It is actually part of the ACNA, Anglican Church of North America. So when we got married, we actually for a while went to separate churches, which was not great for a few different reasons, but also, I was changing and I thought, well, I’ll just start going to Our Savior. And I’ve been there since. Now, I am not confirmed. They really wanna confirm me. And they wanna confirm me because they want me to be on the vestry. And I keep telling our priests, “Thanks, but no thanks” to both the offer of the vestry and the offer of confirmation. So I guess I can’t technically call myself a Episcopalian, but I do attend the physical church.

JIM

Just call yourself Jennifer. That takes care of everything.

JEN

It does, it does, yeah.

JIM

All the other labels are distractions and people start thinking of other things that the label means rather than what you mean. That’s my personal opinion on that. What’s the name on your driver’s license?

JEN

What? My driver’s license is Jennifer Lynne Hoosier.

DEE

That’s my middle name.

JEN

Oh, I don’t think I ever knew that. I spell mine with an E on the end.

DEE

Oh, I don’t do that.

JEN

Sorry.

JAN

Was there more to that?

JIM

You’re married.

JEN

I am.

JIM

And your husband’s name?

JEN

My husband’s name is Eric Strange.

JIM

And you didn’t take his name?

JEN

I did not take his name, no.

JIM

Please tell me he has a doctorate.

JEN

[laughs] I get that question all the time.

JIM

It’s just fun. Does he have a brother named Steven, anything?

JEN

No, no, no.

JIM

Why did you not take his name? Not that you should, it’s a curiosity because of custom.

JEN

Yeah, no, it’s a good question. By the time we met, I didn’t know if I was going to get married. I mean, all this sort of came together. There wasn’t sort of a single reason, but also, my parents only had two daughters and my sister changed her name when she got married. So I was sort of the last Hoosier of this part of the family. I love my last name. I always have. I really thought about it. I thought, well, this is my name and this is who I am. And I don’t want to go through the hassle of changing it. And I don’t think I should. Another big part of it for me, I don’t think I ever would have thought of it, except that, again, when I lived in China, married women do not change their names. Your name is your name. Your child takes the husband’s family name. And it really sort of changed a paradigm for me, the idea that it doesn’t matter and this is my name and I get to keep my name and like it and not have to do anything else about it. My grandmother died when I was four. And I remember attending that grave vespers at Westview when I was 22 and I had not seen my grandmother’s actual stone. And her headstone says, “Mrs. Major William Perry.” And I remember feeling incensed about that because that, and I still am, I still raised my blood pressure because that’s 100% not who she was. That is not what anyone would have ever called her. And my mom, bless, you know, I was like, “Well, Jennifer, that was just the tradition of the day.” And I’m like, “Well, then let’s change tradition.” All of that fed together. And when Eric and I got engaged and I told him I didn’t really want to change my name. And so, and I said, if he wanted to change his name, he could, and he didn’t. And so we have two different last names.

DEE

You know, Jim offered to change his name to my maiden name.

JEN

Oh, oh wow.

DEE

Or to do like what Ray Steadman Allen did and…

JIM

Hyphenate it.

DEE

Hyphenate it, yeah.

JIM

Yeah, he was Ray Allen. There was another composer who was Ray Allen. So he hyphenated with his wife’s name and that’s how he became Steadman Allen, or RSA, but yeah, I just, she said she was Deanna Drover and is that okay? Sure. And should I change my name? And she was okay. And so then just one day she thought, “No, let’s just change the name.” Okay, whatever you want is fine. But it’s - I’m thinking in about 50 years, the wife taking the name will be a minority position that people will look at, I’m sorry, “strangely”. They will look at it as kind of like, “Why are you changing the name?” And it, which is not a question our parents would have faced.

JEN

Right.

JIM (voice-over)

So now we know a little bit more about Jennifer Hoosier, a fully delightful person, not strange at all. And this concludes our penultimate episode of season one of this podcast. We conclude next week with a summary glance at our transition away from previous engagements in an episode titled “On We March.” Another step in this journey we call “Making Our Way.” Until then.