Transformative Marks Podcast
A podcast that journeys through the world of Indigenous tattooing, amplifying the voices of ancestral skin markers, Indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners, and those who wear the marks. Through a mix of interviews and solo shows, Dion Kaszas brings you the entertaining, challenging, and transformative stories behind every dot, line, and stitch. Embedded in each mark is a unique story that brings forward the reality of contemporary Indigenous peoples living a contemporary existence. Our Indigenous ancestors' struggle, pain, tears, resistance, and resilience are celebrated, honored, respected, and embedded underneath our skin. This podcast explores the stories, truths, and histories essential to us as Indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners, and ancestral skin markers. These stories bring forward our ancestral visual languages and cultures' power, brilliance, and beauty. So that those coming after us are reminded of how amazing we are.
Dion and the Transformative Marks Podcast acknowledge the support of:
The Canada Council for the Arts
Transformative Marks Podcast
Artistic Evolution: The Story of Sarah Kane's Cultural Tattoo Fusion
#024 Embark on a profound journey with me, Dion Kazas, as I sit down with the multi-talented Sarah Kane, whose artistry in tattooing weaves together the rich tapestry of her Filipino heritage with the influential culture of Te Reo Māori. Together, we trace the contours of identity and expression through the indelible ink of tradition and modernity. Sarah opens up about the intricate dance of balancing her roles as an artist, personal trainer, and devoted single mother, all while pioneering a unique style amidst a predominantly male-dominated craft.
Our conversation ventures into the transformative realms of both physical and spiritual landscapes, where the symbolism of geometric tattoo art meets the discipline of bodybuilding. We navigate the emotional narratives etched onto skin, and the disciplined lifestyle of muscle sculpting, unearthing the common ground of dedication and metamorphosis. Sarah's commitment to her craft and clients shines as a testament to the arduous, yet rewarding path of personal and cultural evolution.
As we wrap up this inspiring episode, reflections on growth and the commitment to preserve one's cultural legacy resonate throughout. We invite you to join us in this celebration of heritage, self-discovery, and the art of transformation, and if moved by our narrative, consider supporting our storytelling venture. Share this immersive dialogue with those who revel in the confluence of culture, art, and personal growth.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Sarah at:
Instagram @mama_sez
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
I'm like you've got to trust the process, like, yeah, just remember, this is like deeper than just skin yeah this is like, yeah, like what comes through me from you know, from what my tupin are telling me yeah and this is what's coming through yeah um, this is what's been chosen for you the transformative marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch.
Speaker 2:My name is Dion Kazas. I'm a Hungarian Méti and Intikotmok professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intikotmok skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:Kia ora Dion. Thank you for having me on your podcast. It's an honour. My name is Sarah Kane. I am currently a practicing Filipino contemporary tattoo artist. I'm also a personal trainer and a bodybuilder. I'm a single mother of three beautiful children. We reside in Gisborne, new Zealand, on the east coast. I am of Filipino descent, born and bred in Manila, philippines. I come from the Ilocano, bicolano and Pasukta Galok tribes but from the age of five raised in the world of te ao Māori. So some cultural identity crisis issues there growing up. But that's in a nutshell. That is me cool.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yeah is that a good introduction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an awesome introduction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I was sharing, I was going through some sharing. It was, uh, I was going through some of the old photos because I'm going to do, like you know, a decade in review of, you know, the journey that I've taken, and I was looking at pictures of when Nahan and I came visited you out there in Gizzy in 2015, I believe it was.
Speaker 1:It's kind of cool to. Yeah, that was such a long time ago. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, just take me kind of back to the journey that brought you into doing the work.
Speaker 1:Cool. So, yeah, like I mentioned before, my background stems from like, obviously, like my first language is Tagalog, obviously, like my first language is Tagalog. I was born and raised in the Philippines and then, coming into New Zealand from the age of five, was raised in Te Ao Māori. So my mother didn't really she didn't really have much of a background in regards to indigenous Filipinos. Everything I was brought up around Filipino was all Western, like karaoke, the cha-cha, and I guess it was wholesomely about food as well. So I do remember coming together with my mum and her friends and it was the gatherings of like, yeah, food and karaoke and cha-cha and their language. So they all spoke Tagalog and karaoke and cha-cha and their language. So they all spoke Tagalog and me not even realising until my adult years that the Philippines is made up of 1,700 archipelago and there's like hundreds of languages, like indigenous languages, and I thought it was really strange that everybody spoke that one language when they all each had their own.
Speaker 1:Um, but, yeah, so I my mother didn't, she didn't encourage me to speak to garlog, she wanted me to kind of fit in and just speak english and learn the ways of new zealand. Um, I guess it's very like generally what Filipino parents are like. So yeah, I grew up just being quite immersed in te ao Māori. I did like kapa haka, did Māori art. I went to Māori art school, went to Toihaukura in Gisborne and got a degree in contemporary Māori art. Wow. So yeah, and it wasn't until I actually went to art school and Derek Largely he is like the head tutor there and he did ask me like are you researching your Filipino culture?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I didn't even realise that that was even something that I was allowed to do, because I was like, well, I'm in a contemporary Maori art school to do contemporary Maori art, why would I want to do research Filipino art? And then I started looking, yeah, and then I guess in my degree I fell pregnant with my first child and that really set in stone for me the depths of why I really should be Like researching my own heritage and my own culture, like it never really dawned on me until that point when I was able to, I was ready to birth my child. I was like she actually really needs to know me. Until that point, when I was able to, I was ready to birth my child. I was like she actually really needs to know who she is and where she's from.
Speaker 1:Um, so yeah, I did that. I started like looking like like searching keywords on google, searching like books and things. There wasn't. I found that there wasn't really anything clear, anything like super duper significant to find or anyone Like there was. Yeah, there was no like when you research Maori art like it's just like saturated with so much information and there's so many resources and so many people to go to, but in regards to Filipino indigenous culture, it was very hard to find things and also very confusing as well.
Speaker 1:But the people that did pop up were Mark of the Four Waves Spiritual Tattoo Studio with Al Feston and his wife, sal, that was. They were predominantly. They were like dominating the Google search, yeah, and I was like, oh okay, so these guys are because I didn't know, like I didn't have any foundations of knowledge or anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In regards to indigenous Filipino. So I kept them in mind. And Julie Pangali running Toi Kiri she. So yeah, ngauri o Moturangi actually stemmed from her very first wānanga that she had, which she created for wahine moko artists to come together and wananga, and so there was a group of us women, maori women. I was the only Filipino in that group. They were like, considered, always considered me.
Speaker 1:Maori anyway, and they had invited like Te Hoti from Tahiti and Al and his wife to come. And, oh, and Terry Terry was the other male that came from Auckland, tongan artist yeah, you know Terry, yeah, yeah, and that's when I was able to be introduced to Al and that was kind of like my first initiation of Filipino tattoo and that was kind of like my first initiation of Filipino tattoo and so I got tattooed by his wife at that wananga and I stayed connected with Al and kind of continued to do other research and then, like came across other artists such as like Lane Wilkin, yeah, and then, like I had just seen, like I was really drawn to Lane because of the information that he would share on his Instagram like really in-depth stories of like the background of indigenous Filipino and the art forms and that he was 100% practicing hand tap batok and I was. I thought that was really inspiring that he wasn't using machine at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I really loved his post because of all the stories. So I kind of was kind of navigating away from like the contemporary style of like the Four Waves tribe to more the traditional stuff of like what Lane has liked to spend 100% traditional tattoo artist? Yeah For me. Like to spend 100 traditional tattoo artist? Yeah, um, for me. I'm not practicing traditional tattoo, um, I do call my work contemporary filipino tattoo, um, for the reason that I am not educated or skilled or mentored in any way, shape or form to be able to classify myself as a traditional Filipino tattoo artist. But that is my goal. So I do work with machine and hand poke. My designs are contemporary, but I do have a vision to one day be just 100% traditional, for the pen-o-tattoo artist and just put the machine away and work that way.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's cool. It's quite of a journey hey, it has been that kind of like oh, maybe I should be looking at that. And then all of a sudden, you know you start on that journey and now you've come to this place.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's been really great because that, like you said, it has been a journey and so it's always been like, because I'm always one who's like really impatient and just want things to happen now, now, now, yeah, but yeah, we're just, it's really cool that you've taken us all the way back to when we first met in 2015? Um, because I don't, I wasn't really.
Speaker 1:I was still a baby and I was such a grasshopper, still didn't really know too much, but it's been an amazing journey because I have been able to create relationships and make connections like with yourself, Dion, with family from other indigenous cultures, with family from other indigenous cultures, and then just also being able to meet Natalia, who is a co-Filipino traditional tattoo artist, which is such a highlight.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's been a long journey, but so worthwhile because along the way there's just been so many amazing experiences and being able to create a family, yeah, with other indigenous artists as well yeah, when you think of how long have you been doing, uh, skin marking or tattooing?
Speaker 1:um, when did I start? Uh, this year will be nine years for me oh, that's quite a while yeah, yeah, you've been at it for a while.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah, yeah, when I think about the work that you do, it's pretty cool to see that transition and the different ways that you do your work, because you also use a lot of color as well, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Are you still using a lot of color? I've not. I have, like I've got a set of colors that are literally like still almost full and they're expiring next year and I've told everybody after these have expired, I'm not buying colors anymore. Because, I guess it's kind of like those small incremental steps to making those changes to move towards traditional tattoo.
Speaker 2:So yeah just being able to like slowly but surely start moving away, simplifying and moving away from the mainstream contemporary tattoo world so what drew you to using the colors in the first place? Just just love playing with them. You want to experiment with them, or what?
Speaker 1:um, the my, so my back. So I actually have a degree in painting, so that's okay, that's my degree. I didn't start tattooing until after I graduated and toy hokura, so I'm pretty much self-taught. Yeah, so I am a color artist. I'm in regards to my painting, I'm a watercolor artist. And okay, in regards to my painting, I'm a watercolor artist. Okay, yeah, it's very sporadic and very random and very freestyle.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I thought I had a vision that I would like to create that, but on skin, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I did do a few in the beginning, I remember some of that stuff, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I kind of and for me it was like I guess maybe this is something that a lot of artists kind of battle with as well was that there's definitely a fine line with being able to be, to have that freedom of being an artist, but then also if it is your career, then there's that pressure to create an income. So I was at war with myself a lot with like, am I going to stick it out and just create this and not worry about creating an income, or do I actually need to make income and provide for my family?
Speaker 1:as well, um, and there was, there's only like a small percentage of the population who are going to like the the color work, yeah, and so then I had to develop another style that yeah was more suited for um for the general who, that would be a bit more popular yeah um, but then I also wanted to create a style that was different, because, yeah, there's so many artists out there, you have to really make your mark and stand from the crowd, and so that when people did see your work, they could definitely identify that as your work.
Speaker 1:So when I did start tattooing, I started with Kowhaiwhai Moko designs that I learned at art school, and then I kind of um navigated towards the woven patterns of maori that derived from the wharenui um, which are more like the feminine designs, the woven patterns okay and as I researched more as well in regards to fil art um weaving is a huge art yeah um, within that, within the Filipino culture, and then um, and so I kind of like, was kind of for a while, there was doing like a fusion between the two of like Maori and Filipino woven patterns um kind of coming from like a real.
Speaker 1:I wanted to come from a feminine perspective and I guess that was the clientele that I was trying to draw into.
Speaker 1:And I guess that kind of stems from my own personal journey as well of trying to figure out who I am and where I fit as a woman, as an indigenous woman, as a Filipino woman, as a woman who is practicing tattoo yeah, because I guess when I first did the first start, there wasn't many women tattooing at that time as well, so it was really quite predominantly a male world, yeah, well, so it was really quite predominantly a male world, yeah, um, so I guess it was like a lot of activists, yeah, yeah, um energy coming through in that. But I did love the, I do love, I did love the challenge of creating um geometric shapes and forms freehand so I don't do like stencil transfers or anything like that, I draw everything with pen.
Speaker 1:I thought it was really quite nerve-wracking because I was like, oh God, if I get a line crooked, like one line crooked is going to make everything else crooked. And you know, and there were like, definitely the people were like, oh, you can't do that kind of work like freehand.
Speaker 1:It's got to be like sense of, and I was like, no, I can do this. So it was a good journey for me in regards to like challenging my boundaries and then also proving that we can do this freehand, but yeah, yeah, I've totally come off the colour kaupapa, but yeah. So I stepped away from colour and then moved more into simplistic geometric shapes and forms of the woven patterns from both Maori and Filipino, and that was like in regards to attracting clientele. That was huge for me because it was different.
Speaker 1:It was something that not many, if any, were doing at the time when I did start doing that kind of work, so it was generating an income and I was able to provide for my family. And I've never looked back. So I've never I've not used curvilinear shapes for a very very long time. So yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a cool journey to you know, explore, and it's also uh interesting, you know, uh bringing that forward, cause I think it is a challenge for all of us, you know, who are trying to make a living as an artist and finding that balance between you know, making a living but then also honoring the creativity and the way of you know the, the freedom that you like to have as an artist. You know finding that balance. So what has been your journey with that and are there any insights that you have that you think that you could share, that have helped you?
Speaker 1:Well, for me, I, um being like a single mom of three children, like income, is definitely so important, um, and so I've I've kind of maintained and developed and evolved the geometric shape. So like I've played with like I'm constantly trying to evolve in that, so not staying the same so I've played with like lines, I've played with like dots in different ways, so I've definitely like, on a huge level, contemporized Filipino tattoo in the, in the way that I transfer that onto skin. Um, but there's always that pull in me that I that traditional, that it's always at the back of my mind, like that's always been my goal.
Speaker 1:I just so want to move into that direction. Um so, like, I was actually introduced to a young couple, really beautiful couple. They're based in the States, in Utah, and they're retired 100% debt free retired and they and I shared my story with them. They shared their story with me and so I'm actually currently working with them. I have a goal, like in the next two to five years, to be an artist of leisure. Yeah, cool.
Speaker 1:Say more about that um about being an artist of leisure so that I can, like I can, wake up and just be my most authentic, creative self in regards to my art and do the traditional work. Put away the machines, be a traditional filipino tattoo artist without creating an income in my mind that, knowing that I don't have to create an income for this, I can do this for my communities.
Speaker 1:I can do this for my people yeah because it comes from a space of love and a space of um, for my tupuna, for my ancestors, for this beautiful artwork that I am so honoured to be able to practice and to be able to, you know, pay that forward, be able to teach others, just like Natalia is doing, you know teaching others to do the same, so that our art form does live on, because that really is why we're here, to do this work is to revive and reawaken all that's been put to sleep.
Speaker 1:Particularly Filipino culture has been one of the most colonized countries if not the most colonized countries in the whole entire world yeah so it has really evolved over the years and it's been amazing to watch um and I and I love being part of that evolution, yeah um of that revolution. So so, yeah, what that looks like to me is to just be able to wake up every single day to do this mahi, because I love it and because it stems from a space so much bigger than myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And knowing that you know that I have a roof over my head and there's food, and that my children are being taken care of and. I don't have to charge an hourly price and I you know those sorts of things that comes with running a business, so that you know it doesn't have to be a business anymore. It just becomes my passion and the thing, that I really love to do yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's cool when I think about yeah, yeah, that's cool when I think about. You know, when, as I'm thinking about what you're sharing, does doing any of the personal training you know help with income so you don't have to charge as much? Is that something that comes into play? You know, just because I know that you do that, and maybe just take an opportunity to share a little bit about what you do outside of the work just take an opportunity to share a little bit about what you do outside of the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, with the personal training, like I'm I'm actively um, because I I'm a firm believer in like walk your talk right you've got to walk your talk, you've got to be, um, if you're playing a leadership role, you need to be setting an example, um, and and I think we all should be thinking about how, what I like thinking about our health on a holistic level. So, mind, body and spirit and um, you know what we're feeding our minds, what we're feeding our body, what we're feeding our hearts, because they're all. You know that they're all compounds and reflects out yeah reflects out to the outside of us. Um so, um so. What was the question?
Speaker 2:again, just to talk about the, the. Uh, you know, share a little bit about the work that you do in personal training and how that connects to the work or doesn't, or any of that type of stuff yeah, so, like with personal training it's, there's a lot of like um anatomy and physiology stuff and I guess you know, like where they're both body work.
Speaker 1:So you're both working um physically body work. Also, you're both working like spiritually and mentally with clients. So, um, you know, when you're tattooing, you're literally coaching your clients through that, through going through that undergoing tattoo, because, yeah, the discomfort the discomfort. Yeah, because it's not. It's, it's not roses, it's not fun butterflies yeah so you're literally holding space for that person um, and same goes with um personal training you're, you're holding space for that person as well um, because, yeah, that's not fun either, you know getting those last few reps yeah, you're literally coaching on both, on both spectrums, on on all holistic levels and um and with the body like it is an art.
Speaker 1:You know, your body is such an art form and there's so many ways that you can transform aesthetically. Yeah, speaking on a personal training perspective, so I I like to have like a um, like an array of different clientele who have different types of goals. So you know, I'm not out here trying to transform everybody into a bodybuilder.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, but, yeah, but. But that is actually quite beautiful to actually watch somebody be able to shape and transform themselves on an aesthetic level. But you know, I just love to my. Actually, my most favorite clients are the ones who have injuries or the ones who have health concerns yeah because I feel like when you're you the line, you're more um, you're you have more will, yeah, to do the work, um, and it's, and for me it's it gives me more like, it gives me like a deeper sense of like, satisfaction and knowing that I'm helping somebody that goes beyond an aesthetic goal yeah that it's's actually saving their life.
Speaker 1:Or they're actually helping them be able to sit on the floor with their children or be able to run around the park Just simple things that a lot of us take for granted there are definitely people out there who are just unable to do those sorts of things. In regards to how that transfers over to tattooing. I like to think that it helps me in regards to being really like, just really choosy and really taking a lot of time with placement, if we're thinking on an aesthetic level.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like placement of the work, when it's going on the body and how it moves, like how this work is going to move and how it's going to age with that person. Yeah, all those sorts of stuff it takes. It actually takes me longer to draw up the work than it does to actually tattoo it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know one of the things that I think about, uh, and the the word that comes up is transformation in both of those, you know, with the work and with the personal training. Yes, so yeah, when that, when I say that word, and how does that?
Speaker 1:you know what comes to mind when I say that uh, transformation on like how I was explaining on on holistic level. On a holistic level it's, it is like like such a huge personal development, um, yeah, like mindset, um heart space and and the physical as well yeah um, so yeah, I think, um, um, like. I always feel like I come in quite strong and quite what's the word? Whenever I get clients for both tattoo and personal training, I'm really quite like, really serious Almost.
Speaker 1:I know maybe a bit scary, almost I know maybe a bit scary, but but I like to express to clients with both with both work, like the seriousness of what they're about to undergo, and and and um, and I and what I do spend a lot of time on because we both, we have consultations for both ends. Um, like with personal training, it's called a pre-screen and then, like tattooing, it's a consultation, and we spend a lot of time on discussing the why. Why do you want to receive this work, this tattoo? Why do you want to achieve that goal? With personal training? We need to discuss it on an in-depth level, because I always, um, yeah, explain to them that you know, if your why isn't strong enough, then your will won't be either.
Speaker 1:And then, with tattooing, like and and actually for both of them, like, if your why isn't for the right reasons, then you shouldn't really be pursuing this. Like, really go away and really think about this. Yeah, because and I explained to them it's going to transform you on a huge level. It's going to bring out the ugly in you. It's going to bring out the best in you. It's going to bring out the worst in you. It's going to bring out the best in you.
Speaker 2:It's going to bring out the best in you.
Speaker 1:It's going to bring out the worst in you. It's going to bring out the best in you. It's going to be triggering. There's going to be lots of underlying trauma that's going to come through, that stems from childhood trauma that might not even be yours, that kind of may have generated from tupuna, from your ancestors, trauma that you're carrying, that's not even yours. All sorts of crazy things. And you know, if they're not like a spiritual kind of person, they kind of sit there and they just look at me. Really, weird.
Speaker 2:You're like what the heck? Yeah, what is she talking about?
Speaker 1:But then you know, when they do, you know, come through the process and it's not until they get to the end and then they realize and they do share with me they're like you know. I understand all that conversation that we had at the beginning. I understand that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And both work. There's been tears.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's been huge tears that have come out and huge conversations, just things that, like people just would never share with a stranger. So I think that both work is really important and you really have to uphold so much mana and respect for your clients as well, because you're literally like a safe space for them to be their most vulnerable self. Yeah, Because yeah. Both your, your both include massive physical and emotional pain and mental toughness as well.
Speaker 2:Hey there, listeners, it's Dion Kazzas, your host from the Transformative Marks podcast, where we dive deep into the world of indigenous tattooing, ancestral skin marking and cultural tattooing. If you found value in our episodes we've made you laugh or you've learned something new consider showing your support by buying me a coffee on ko-ficom. Ko-fi is this incredibly creator-friendly platform where you can support me directly for just the cost of a cup of coffee. No subscriptions, no hidden fees, just a simple one-time gesture that goes a long way in keeping me on the air. Plus, ko-fi doesn't take a cut, so every penny goes directly into improving the podcast, from updating equipment to visiting with new guests as I go into recording Season 2. So if you like what you hear and you'd like to help me keep the lights on, head over to my Ko-Fi page, wwwko-ficom. Forward slash transformative marks. The link is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, you know. It's cool that you talk about that, because I never thought about it. With the physical training, you know. You know helping people to transform their bodies. You know physically, through exercise and eating and all that stuff, and the amount of trauma and body work that comes through that. You know. It just never came to mind.
Speaker 2:Of course I know that with the tattoo work, with the skin marking, you know you're doing a full body suit and all of that trauma comes out because it's just packed in those places. But I never, it never, transferred in my mind to you know, being in the gym doing that work as well, it's kind of cool to hear you talk about it and opens up, you know, a whole new space of thinking about that. Yeah, so yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with me and you know, and also understanding that, because not everybody really walks in that way, you know, but in both ways, probably, probably you know in in the work of, uh, skin marking and as well as personal training, you know. So I just lift you up in, you know that, understanding that that's the way that you hold yourself and you walk through the world in this place, that you know it's really something to admire and I just hold you up for that oh, thank you yeah yeah, no, I, I absolutely like, I love both works for that very reason of transformation.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I'll have a client who'll come in who's like so self-loathing, so like just have really low self-image, self-confidence, um negative self-tortures, and then to transform into something. I always think that you can really tell someone by the way they hold themselves in their posture. I'll get ones, because I'm the posture police.
Speaker 2:You'll be walking around the convention.
Speaker 1:I know I'm like judging everybody. But, like I mean, but to be able to like, take care of yourself and learn good form and technique when you're training and being safe so you're not going to injure yourself or do any kind of damage, like posture is so important.
Speaker 1:So we go through that quite in depth as well before we start training and it's really amazing to watch somebody. It's like a caterpillar blooming into a butterfly, like you know. They come in with like slouched over shoulders, like a hunchback, like looking at the ground, can barely hear them when they talk to. Suddenly they're like their chin is up, there's like this invisible crown on their head. They're talking loudly and clearly and confidently and it's just such a win for me as their coach to be able to see them go from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Speaker 1:And the same with, like tattoo work. You know you could get a client who, like just an example, who could be like come through like quite like um know it all quite kind of deep in their ego yeah like and then and then, after receiving the work, really like humble themselves and really like realize some things about themselves just through receiving those markings and having those conversations through that work, and then be an absolutely completely different person when they walk out that door as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's cool to see that transformation. You know I can relate to that. You know somebody comes in and they want to get their sleeve done right and you know you spend three days of you know six to eight hours with them and you know they it does change them. You can see, you know even the posture when they come in and that work is done and you see them the next time it's all healed up and, yeah, that transformation is there. So it's cool to see that transference between the both styles. And it shouldn't be you know it shouldn't be surprising, because it is. It does have to do with the body and so much of our trauma and so much of that experience and emotion, you know, is it's stuck in our bodies unless we move right and move it through. So you know it shouldn't be surprising, but it's cool to come to that realization for myself.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty cool, and I understand that you, above and beyond personal training, you also do a lot of training for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:um the bodybuilding? Yes, yeah, so I've always been like sporty, like from childhood, always into sports and dance and um and health and well-being. So you know like when I um, my upbringing stems from a space of like self-sustainable lifestyle, like we lived out in the country and grew up around farms and hunting and fishing and gardening and having chickens and fruit trees everywhere. So we lived like that simple, self-sustainable life and it's always been and that was instilled in me. So those seeds are planted on continually and I've continued that into my own life today and pass it down to my children just having those basics of having, you know, nutritious food that's going to feed your body, your mind and your spirit, and getting fresh air, moving your body.
Speaker 1:Um, and I never, and and I started looking at bodybuilding because I guess it was like another level of self-discipline. So I mean, like there's one thing to be disciplined enough to like just go to the gym or like go out for a walk or just to eat some healthy food and then like for me, bodybuilding was like another level because you're not just some healthy food. And then, like for me, bodybuilding was like another level because you're not just eating healthy food.
Speaker 1:You're now weighing your food to the gram and you're not allowed to eat any more past that gram that dot. And then you know, and then training becomes more purposeful because you're not just going to the gym to like, just be healthy. You're now trying to achieve an aesthetic look yeah.
Speaker 1:so for me, pursuing bodybuilding was like it was like building on more of a stronger mindset for me, because I was like I want to know what that's like to be that disciplined, because I also I always because I was like I want to know what that's like to be that disciplined, because I always thought I was pretty disciplined, because I was like I eat really healthy. Yeah, you know I work out and I do this and that, and then, yeah, sewing bodybuilding was like a whole other level. So I think, particularly in this day and age when we have like social media, people just see like the highlights, right. People see like the glitz and the glam and the bikini and the high heels and the makeup and the hair on the stage with this glorious body.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they don't see, like the things that are behind it, like the food prepping, you know, making sure, you know you can't just be like, oh, I didn't food prep, I'll just go in to the shop and whatever you can't do it yeah. Like you know, you've got to be so organized with that and then having enough discipline within yourself to still have a life yeah but still be on the ball.
Speaker 1:So you know, being able to go to like dinners and and social events and whatever, and and be able to say no yeah but still enjoy yourself and be a part of the event and be able to like, do, like, baking with your children yeah, and not eat and eat half of the baking um, and then also things like you know, prioritizing sleep as well, prioritizing rest um, and so there's a theory that you know. It's like what you're putting into your mind, who you're, who you're surrounding yourself with, all of those things impact you on all those holistic levels.
Speaker 1:So now I'm being mindful of who I'm associating with my friends, being mindful of the conversations that are happening around me, because, yeah, they do plant seeds in you and it's really weird because it does affect you physically like your physical outcome. Yeah, big time and yeah, and it affects the way you talk to yourself as well. So if you're hanging out with, like, people who are really negative or you know, or people who are negative about the things that you're doing, like you can't have that around you.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:You've got to have people who are supporting and who are clapping for you yeah and they don't necessarily need to be doing what you're doing. But they just need to be vibey yeah, totally vibey and supportive um, so yeah, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:Just those little things, just the behind the scenes things I think people um don't see and I you know my social media platform I try my very best to ensure that I do share those things um, like on my stories or on my, on my news feed, so that people can see like this isn't just about looking beautiful on a stage like yeah there's actually so much hard work that goes into that and it's not. Yeah, it's not for yeah, it's not for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's yeah, that reminds me of some of the ideas that I have around. You know, the exhibitions that I've been working on. How do we show the journey of somebody getting the mark? You know, because a lot of times, yeah, you just see the picture of sometimes I just call it the artifact, right of that experience of being marked, right. So we take a picture of the tattoo and that's what you see on the social media, yeah, but you don't see the fact.
Speaker 2:It's part of that's that intellectual, spiritual journey of coming, especially when it's an ancestral mark or cultural mark, of going like, oh, I actually want to be tattooed like my ancestors, right? So that's a journey of coming to know who you are. So then you go there, okay, well, how do we tell that part of the story? And then you go to the part of like getting tattooed, right, so you've again say it's a rib piece, right, like how do you show the pain and the anguish of getting those pieces in those places? You know there's blood sweat. You know all of the agony of moving around. So how do we tell you know, kind of the messiness of that, you know, instead of just the polished off picture of what's left at the end. So yeah, it's interesting to see that.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know we're thinking parallel, but just in a different, different mediums, I suppose absolutely and yeah, and, of course, like with even receiving the work, because I know, when I have consultations with clients, like I verbally speak, like the expectations I have of them in regards to preparation for the, for the tattooing, and then I have like a I had like a confirmation email that gets sent out when, like, they've been booked, and then it's just a reminder yeah of my expectation of you. Things like you know, make sure you've eaten well yeah, make sure you've drinking a lot of water.
Speaker 1:Make sure you've had lots of rest. Make sure you're well. You're not sick. If you have been sick in the last seven days, please let me know so we can reschedule you, because it's an exchange of energy. I don't want the energy being transferred over to me and vice versa. I will uphold the same manner within myself as well, like if I'm not, if I don't drink, but you know, if I went on a bender, I definitely would be tattooing you the next day like I'm very serious about myself as a tattoo artist, like I yeah, I I don't drink or do drugs or you know, I I eat.
Speaker 1:Well, I look after myself because I want to show up a hundred percent for my clients, just as I expect them to do the same so um.
Speaker 1:So it's a reciprocal, reciprocal um event yeah it's got to go two ways, it's not a one one way one, one way transaction yeah it's an exchange of energy, so I definitely ensure um that I let my tattoo clients know like you must meet those requirements and if, in any way, shape or form, you come into my studio and I feel like you didn't adhere to those requirements, I I will turn you away yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's important setting those boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely so that they know like, oh, she's not just doing this for the money like yeah yeah, she's actually really serious about what she's doing yeah so yeah so when you think about, uh, the work that you do you freehand?
Speaker 2:do you usually, uh, plan in advance what you're going to put down on someone, or do you just have a vague idea of what's going in? Or do you just freehand it just of what's going in, or do you just freehand it just whatever comes or like a mix?
Speaker 1:I literally freehand on the spot. So we have a consultation. Yeah, they talk about, you know, like their background, what this tattoo is going to represent, what it means to them, why they want this to happen, and then we kind of revisit that conversation when they come into the studio and then, as we're talking, my pen starts doing the work. Like I don't go, this is what I'm doing. I don't draw the night before or leading up to. I don't even think about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Really, I just know oh yes, that person's coming in. Oh yeah, I remember they said that they're Tagalog and they're Ilocano, or they said that they don't really have much of a background.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm going gonna contemporize this in this way yeah, um, and and then yeah, as they're talking like, the designs just come through. It's kind of like yeah, and I actually explain this to the clients, and particularly ones who've never been tattooed, before they get a bit nervous yeah, they're like what?
Speaker 2:there's no plan I can't see it the night before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't see what you're gonna do yeah I'm like you've got to trust the process, like, yeah, just remember, this is like deeper than just skin yeah this is like, yeah, like what comes through me from you know, from what my tupin are telling me yeah and this is what's coming through yeah um, this is what's been chosen for you yeah and I also explain that like I think it's really beautiful, like the way our indigenous people do work in this way of freehand work yeah but you're literally getting a custom design yeah personally design marking.
Speaker 1:That's never going to be um. Reiterated, it's never good. There's no other person in the whole entire world that's going to have the exact same tattoo as you, yeah, and I'm like you know that's kind of special, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then yeah, and then they think about that and they're like, actually, yeah, that that is pretty cool yeah, it is pretty cool yeah you'll never see it on someone's flash wall in a gallery or studio or anything like that, like this is, like this has stemmedmed from your tūpuna as well as mine, and I do explain to them that, like once we break skin, we've opened up that space for you know, for all our ancestors to come into this room and be with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that just gave me goosebumps. I'm like feeling the yeah it's powerful.
Speaker 2:You know it is powerful and I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have these conversations is because a lot of people don't. You know, I get to have these conversations all the time but not everybody gets to hear you know the work that we do and how different and unique you know it is compared to going to, you know, a regular ass convention or you know, a regular shop. Like the work that we do, like you said, is very much connected to the ancestors. It's connected to the knowledge that's coming through in those times and those spaces.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and I think it's. It is a huge different experience and I love the manner that our indigenous people do uphold with our art forms because, yeah, you know, you walk into a mainstream contemporary tattoo shop and they're just like I'll do whatever you want, just pay me kind of ordeal but you know, with our indigenous peoples it's just like no, this is our, this is how we do it yeah and we're not budging like I mean, you know, we're not this.
Speaker 1:This is, this is my requirement, these are my boundaries yeah and if you can't respect that, then you need to go find someone else to do the work, to do the work and and so you know monetary isn't. Isn't why we do the work yeah um, and I love that I think that's so special.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time. Yeah, um, did you have you had people? You know when you've gone through, like this is my process have you had people like not, like I'm not down, or do the majority of people are down to roll with it?
Speaker 1:majority of people are down to, I would say, like 99 and you will get that one person every now and again. That will test you. Yeah, and I'm speaking both on like personal training and tattooing as well. Like you know, the other week I had a mother who called my phone four times in a row.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:Who wanted a personal trainer for her son. Yeah, I was in the middle of training a client, but it was coming up as an unknown number so I thought I'd better answer it. It might be one of my kids trying to contact me. But yeah, it was a potential client and she was very demanding, wanted to get her son into personal training. Now I was trying to explain to her that she needed to have a consultation, we actually need to sit down and talk about this and there's a process, there's a protocol, and she was like, oh no, we, we need, we need this to happen now. And I said, well, please feel free to seek other personal trainers, because this is this is how I'm doing it yeah um, and as well as tattooing, you know people and other.
Speaker 1:You know people being demanding. They just want to come and get the work done, like, oh, but can you just book me and and then offering like ridiculous amounts of money as if that's going to change my mind and I'm like, no, no no, again, there's a process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, I have to adhere to my protocol, otherwise I'm not being true. Yeah, to my values, yeah, and I, and I'm really serious about that. So, yeah and yeah, 99 of the time people will calm down and be like, okay, yeah, I respect that. That's really cool. And then others, they will go and find someone and most of the time they're trying to replicate my work to do exactly what you do and then they fuck it up like it's not what they wanted, yeah yeah, and I've actually had clients come back to me and ask me to fix the work they want me to fix the work they should have just come to me in the first place but just patience.
Speaker 1:So I think, yeah, it's a good test of like for both, on both ends, for clients and for myself, you know, to really yeah, to really just remind her of your values, and that there will be people that are just going to come, and I think it's just up to pin it, just testing us yeah, definitely throwing on a spanner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, when you was it nerve-wracking when you started doing that freehand stuff, or have you always done it?
Speaker 1:yeah, like did you yeah, from the beginning from the beginning. Yeah, I've, I've always done freehand, but yet in terms of geometric shapes, um, I think more so. It was just listening to the voices outside of me. It was taking that on board. I just continue to tell myself no, I can do anything. I set my mind to and I will figure it out like yeah, anything else it will take some time.
Speaker 1:I'll probably mess up a couple yeah but we'll get there yeah and um and so yeah, today I'm I'm really confident with the free hand of my geometric designs and yeah, and I can and they just kind of free flow now. But yeah, definitely at the beginning it would take me like forever to do like one little piece and I'd be like especially like you know how, how bodies move. So you know, if it's flat, it's going to. Yeah, it's going to warp it and then if you turn it, it's going to warp it some more yeah and it's like oh yeah, being being able to trust yeah trust that.
Speaker 2:Where you put that line, it's like like okay, it's fine there.
Speaker 1:That's a good word. That's perfect, yeah, just trusting yourself and just knowing that you got this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got this, yeah, as we start to kind of wind down, you know, is there anything that you'd like to share? You know, I always think when I do interviews later I'm like, ah, I wish I would have shared that or I wish they would have asked me this. You know, when you think about the work and you know, is there something important that you feel needs to be shared out to the world?
Speaker 1:I think it's like you know, we talked about this before earlier about journey, about everything just being a journey, and we've talked about transformation. So, you know, not only transformation on a clientele perspective, but also transformation within ourselves. Yeah, um, and just being able to be open and receptive to change, I think is really important. Um, because, yeah, like nothing changes if nothing changes in the world. The only thing constant in the world is change, and so being able to like be open and receptive and be willing to like unlearn and relearn, just yeah, to be able to unlearn and relearn and being able to trust your intuition to know when it's time to push forward or push out, or push away and push on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've got to. Within this journey, there's been lots of goodbyes that I've had to do. Yeah, and it's nothing personal against anybody, but it's always just about me evolving as a person myself, evolving on a personal level, evolving on a professional level, allowing myself to adjust my values, to set new standards of myself, to set new boundaries and to just be able to open up myself to new experiences, new connections and just knowing and also being able to forgive yourself as well. Um, forgive all those terrible tattoos you did and I'm just kidding but just, yeah, to be able to forgive your past self and be excited for who you are today and who you're going to be. I think a lot of people do carry so much, just unable to forgive themselves, and so they're not able to move on and to be better. So, yeah, just to be open and receptive to change, I think is really, really important, on both the personal and professional level. Yeah, particularly yeah, I think that's it. I don't know how else to kind of explain it even more.
Speaker 2:I think you've encapsulated, you know, the way your own personal story and your own personal journey right, your own personal story and your own personal journey right Of being able to let go and move forward and just trust right, trust that you're right in that wave where it needs to go. So I think, yeah, that totally makes sense, that you know those are the lessons that you've lived. You know, like you said, you're walking your talk in terms of those things that you share and, yeah, I also always share to people. You know, you know, just be gentle with yourself. And you know we all, we all fuck up, but you know it's it's okay to fuck up and also okay to be scared. You know, just like I had mentioned, you know, same with me too, when I go to draw on, you know like, uh, you know, starting a bodysuit, you're drawing on those first lines. You know freehanding those lines on and you're just like whoa this is scary, right, it's okay to be scared right, you're pushing yourself moving forward.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's kind of cool to, uh, you know, explore this journey with you and, uh, yeah, reflect on. You know the time, you know that that we've known each other and you know those transformations that we've both made today awesome yeah thanks to you yeah, thank you for being on the transformative marks podcast.
Speaker 2:Hey, everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me, uh, through this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe, if you haven't already done so. And if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you following this journey.
Speaker 2:I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done or what you've been through, that you are amazing, that you are loved and that we need you here today and going into the future, so that we can transform this world for the better through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings and our compassion for each other as human beings. Heading over to next week's episode, where I talk to Gunahirio Seth Laforte, where we talk about the resurgence of cultural practices and Indigenous tattoo gathering, remember, every coffee helps me to bring you the content that you love, so head over to my Ko-Fi page and let's make something great together. And the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.