Your Work Friends
🔥 #1: Lust - From Our Fishbowl LIVE "7 Deadly Work Sins"Summer Series
This week, we're talking about...Lust.
Lust...you know lust, that feeling of butterflies when walking into the office. Maybe you have a simple crush with your lunch buddy. Maybe you're finding yourself going 4-years deep into their IG and accidentally hitting like. Or, maybe you find yourself receiving random notes from Chris in IT. At work, lust shows itself in a lot of different ways, and we want to talk about. How you can recognize it, how you can manage it, and what to do if you're a victim of someone's unwanted attention and affection.
About the "7 Deadly Work Sins" Summer Series
You want to know what really messes employees up? Raw human emotions. Listen, we ALL experience them from time to time (we totally have), but if you don't handle them well, man can they be deal breakers. In this series, we break down
• The common spectrum of experiences with each 'sin',
• We talk about real-life (kinda salacious stories) scenarios (yeah, this stuff happens every day),
• How to not ‘commit’ the sin, and
• Most importantly, how to deal with a sinner
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
Thanks for listening!
Hey! We love new friends! Connect with us!
This week, we're talking about...Lust.
Lust...you know lust, that feeling of butterflies when walking into the office. Maybe you have a simple crush with your lunch buddy. Maybe you're finding yourself going 4-years deep into their IG and accidentally hitting like. Or, maybe you find yourself receiving random notes from Chris in IT. At work, lust shows itself in a lot of different ways, and we want to talk about. How you can recognize it, how you can manage it, and what to do if you're a victim of someone's unwanted attention and affection.
About the "7 Deadly Work Sins" Summer Series
You want to know what really messes employees up? Raw human emotions. Listen, we ALL experience them from time to time (we totally have), but if you don't handle them well, man can they be deal breakers. In this series, we break down
• The common spectrum of experiences with each 'sin',
• We talk about real-life (kinda salacious stories) scenarios (yeah, this stuff happens every day),
• How to not ‘commit’ the sin, and
• Most importantly, how to deal with a sinner
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
Thanks for listening!
Hey! We love new friends! Connect with us!
Mel, it's summertime. Summer time, we have plans this summer, don't we? We got plans we have big plans, man.
Speaker 2:We have a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do, and one of the things we agreed to do. We were like oh shit, we agreed to do that, but it's good, it's all.
Speaker 2:It's a good discussion. It's such a good discussion, it is.
Speaker 1:And we agreed to do it over on Fishbowl. But we thought, hey, let's just put it out for our podcast listeners and share the wealth.
Speaker 2:We're just going to freaking go there, yeah yeah, one of the things Francesca and I talked about when we met up in January in Portland to plan our year a common theme that kept coming up was this like ball of human emotions and all of the things that show up at work that get the Slack channels going, teams conversations going, things that you talk about with your work, friends, but maybe nobody else. But it's really good stuff to talk about and we thought well. And we thought well, if not us, then who let's have the conversation? Else is doing it and you're feeling the impact of it and how might that help? So this summer series is called the Seven Deadly Work Sins and we're covering them all and what we found from all the stories that we get from our listeners is that there is a lot, a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1:It's the stuff that really trips people up like lust and wrath and gluttony Turns out. That's all the stuff we need to talk about. So our first one dropped last week over on Fishbowl. We talked about lust, oh lust. So listen, friends, here's the deal. We're going to be doing these every other week. We do these live. They're about 60 minutes. They are unedited, but we wanted to share them with youS and thank you. And we thought what a better way to take a midweek break from work. I know we're all in the middle of it. You know what we wanted to do today. We want to talk about that shit that none of us really talk about at work. That's what we love to do over here, because we're talking about lust at work. I am Francesca.
Speaker 2:And I'm Mel.
Speaker 1:And we are from the your Work Friends podcast, where we are two HR friends with no filter podcast, where we are two HR friends with no filter. We like to get you through all the work shits. And Mel, we've been working in HR for a long time, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a really long time. A really long time, but a long enough time to have all the good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the thing I think between us. We've been in there for a while. We won't do the math. We're in a couple decades of an HR and, to your very good point, friends, if you want the good stories, okay, ask someone in HR, because we've seen it all, we've heard it all and a few months ago, mel and I started the podcast because we wanted to talk about all of the work stuff, but one of the themes that we realized was that one thing remained true and the thing that really trips people up and sometimes totally can destroy their career. Right, mel, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's all the messy stuff, right, that really messes up employees. It's the raw human emotions that no one ever talks about, and in this series we're talking about calling them the sins, because that's how they show up there. We have several sins that show up at work. Listen, we all experience them from time to time. We totally have Francesca. But if you don't have a handle on these things, man, can they really be deal breakers? So in this series we're going to break down the first in what we're calling our seven deadly work sins, and that topic is about lust, and over the summer we're going to be covering many more Francesca. What are the other sins we're going to talk about?
Speaker 1:The next one up. We have wrath, anger at work whether you've been the victim of anger or you felt it as well Things like gluttony sloth we're covering all seven because these are the things that will trip you up, and lust is one of those things and before you think you're immune, these three things have happened. We've got reports of these three things happening just in our little group, mel. In the last two weeks, a male executive finally got turned into HR after he was rubbing up on one too many female colleagues and turns out he's been doing this to males for years unreported.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was unreported because they thought, oh, who cares Big deal, but come on, that's nuts, yeah. Yeah, just for everyone's reference. Leading up to this series, we reached out to our network from the podcast to ask about people's stories, so that's where these stories are coming from. I had a manager reach out to me to say she had to leave the company that she was working at because she was dating a colleague for three months and she hadn't disclosed it. And then, just, it just got too weird and now she doesn't like him or her job anymore, so now she's out of a job. This stuff happens in the day to day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the third thing, like just Harvey Weinstein, I think that's just enough. So that is just a story that will not go away. Anyway, lust happens, it happens at work and we have our own stories.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, of course, of course I don't know. Listen, if you're in this call and you've never had a work crush or someone, I would probably think you're lying. You're a human being. But yeah, one of my most serious relationships was a work friend who then turned into a boyfriend. And now we're still friends. We're not together, but this stuff happens to everybody.
Speaker 1:You're still friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're still friends.
Speaker 1:You know what? I've never been able to be friends with someone I've broken up with. I. Friends with someone I've broken up with, I'm like you're dead. To me, we can't be friends. That's very mature of you. Clearly I'm not. I try. I have my own experience with this because I married my work crush. So, yeah, we're going on 17 years friends. I have experience with this.
Speaker 1:But let's talk about this a little bit more, because lust, it's a hot one, right, and you may know lust, right. These things can happen in some of the stories that we've told, but it can be things like where you've got that feeling of butterflies when you're walking into the office. Or maybe you have a simple crush with your lunch buddy, your work person. Maybe you're finding that you're going four years deep into someone's Instagram and you accidentally hit, or maybe you found yourself receiving random creepy notes from Chris and IT. All of these things have happened right At work. Lust shows itself in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1:So today, here's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about it. We want to let you know how you can recognize it, how you can manage it and what to do if you're the victim of someone's unwanted attention and affection. The other thing, too, is listen, and I love to talk about this stuff, but more importantly, we want to hear about your experiences, so we want to make this super interactive. We'll be asking you all questions as we're going through this, but if you want us to answer any questions as we're going along, either raise your hand or you can send us an anonymous DM as well. If you don't want us to tell what your name and your company is, we won't. We're pretty much a lockbox, but let us know. We want to answer your questions.
Speaker 2:It is Vegas in here. That's what we like to call it.
Speaker 1:It is Vegas. It is Vegas. It's fun sitting on this much information, friends. It's fun. So, mel, should we get into it? Let's get into it, all right. So here's the deal, friends 99.9% of us have experienced lust at work, right? If you found someone attractive, just attractive, you've experienced lust at work. If you've asked someone out on a date, you've experienced lust at work. And so, just to define what lust is, it's a super strong desire, especially when it comes to the sex stuff. I'm just going to say it, and it's, by the way, totally normal. It's normal to feel attracted to someone. But when that attraction turns into doing things that are not cool or they cross a line at work or any other professional settings, that's where lust can get dicey and it's really complex. It can manifest in really different ways at work. And what Mel and I realized when we're thinking about all of these sins, but especially around lust, it happens on a spectrum, mel it does it really does?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can go from things that are very low, the low end of the spectrum, low risk, light lust, if you will, to we're going to go straight up into the illegal. Call the police, yeah, so we're going to tell you about the spectrum. Right, it's a four pronged spectrum. We're going to take you from low to high and then we're going to talk about what do you do about it. So here we go. Low end of the less. Spectrum is healthy attraction, right? This is when you acknowledge you appreciate that someone's attractive. Right, we've all said, wow, that person's attractive, that person's hot. It's low right, very low Right. You can maintain your professional boundaries and it's totally normal to find someone else attractive, right? Mel, have you found someone else attractive at work?
Speaker 2:Yes, I just told you I dated someone at work. Yes, no, but there are just attractive people in the world. Right, you are going to notice someone's attractive, but I think that can be a very matter-of-fact thing. Oh, yes, that person's attractive. Okay, and move on. Yeah, a thousand percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was in percent. Yeah, that's super low risk. I think almost every place I've worked there are people where I'm like, oh, they're attractive and I don't have feelings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no feelings there, but you recognize they're attractive. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Listen, I probably just worked in really good looking places.
Speaker 2:This is just a thing. Maybe I just picked the right company I don't know.
Speaker 1:Can you send me a headshot of everybody that's on my team? We find people attractive all the time. Yeah, Sometimes that turns into a crush, right? And in fact, according to data, about 46% of people have had a crush on one of their coworkers right, that came out of Forbes, right.
Speaker 2:That was a recent article in Forbes and I think, with people returning to the office, we thought this was going to be such a good topic too, because, listen, folks, you're interacting more, so this is bound to happen.
Speaker 1:It's bound to happen. So 46% of people, right. There's a risk factor here that we want to talk about, though, because, even though it's the low end of the spectrum, when you're getting into crush territory a little bit like taking that attraction a little bit further Listen, if you keep it to yourself, it's a low risk, right, it's where you might when you start communicating it, where it might be a little bit of a higher risk. If you tell someone that you're attracted to them or that you have a crush on it, it can get risky, right. Mel, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:There's another thing I want to call out here to friends, which, just as we're on the low end of the spectrum, something to keep in mind work hot. What is work hot? If you haven't heard of work hot, please just keep this in the back of your mind for yourself and for your friends. All right. Work hot is basically this idea that you find someone at work hot or attractive because they're there and you're bored. Okay, I want to let you know that a lot of times, this is happening because they're work hot. They're not someone you would necessarily feel like they were attracted externally.
Speaker 2:I can see that. Yeah, where you're just like. You spend so much time together. You're going to lunch, you're doing stuff together. I could see that You're just bored. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So work, hot might happen Again. Low risk All right, low end of the spectrum, but let's move up the spectrum now. Now we're moving up the risk spectrum of lust here it is Okay. Yeah, what do you think it is?
Speaker 2:I think anytime you start to involve other people where you're not keeping it to yourself, you're automatically increasing your risk factor, right? Because it involves another person. So I would just assume it could be something like banter, like the flirting, just the daily flirting kind of stuff, that's right, it's flirting, it's flirting.
Speaker 1:This is number two. We're now we're getting into flirting because now we that's right, it's flirting, it's flirting. This is number two. We're now we're getting into flirting because now we're involving more people. It's that playful banter, this subtle gestures, and again, it's not just bad, like I've had. Listen, I love to be sarcastic, I love to crack jokes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it isn't always flirting If not everyone's on board. That's what we're trying to get to. Sometimes your banter doesn't mean flirting A thousand percent.
Speaker 1:There's a difference between banter and flirting. Here's the difference. Do you have a crush on the person? That's the difference. Okay, if you have a crush on someone and now you're flirting with them, risky business, right? You know about flirting when you see it, mel.
Speaker 2:Oh, you could totally tell when people are flirting. I've worked on teams where you can. You're like what's up with that? What's up with those two? What's going on over there?
Speaker 1:Here's the issue, and why this is moving on the spectrum is because when you're flirting with someone and you have a crush on them A you're involving the other person. They may or may not like you right the same way. There's that Yep, little risky business. Risky business. Number two is we all know when we see it, we all, and it's all the quote, unquote. What's up with that? Yeah, it's, yeah, it's right. You get the side I like, huh, and the reality of the situation is fair or not?
Speaker 2:That does happen. It's just there's the world we want to live in and the world we do live in, and that is the reality. That's the reality.
Speaker 1:I'm not talking about fairness, I'm just talking about how people work and, quite honestly, the thing is that there was a lot of flirting going on at work. Data here Again 50% of people admit to flirting with one of their coworkers. It happens, yeah, and like it can potentially lead to trouble, right, mel? Remember that one woman that actually had to quit?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I remember one of my colleagues that I was working with was talking to me about how, at the job, she just left because we she had joined the team, that she left because the woman that she worked for led the department and someone from a different department altogether, but he was a more junior staff person there was talk that maybe they were dating and she ended up getting reported for dating someone who was junior to her, even though he didn't directly report to her, and it caused just so much drama in the workplace that she ended up having to quit. They're married now, by the way. I think they have a kid. That was the end of that story, but it was just like so much swirl and drama and the impact of that ended up being drama for everybody, even the person who joined my team because they were part of her team. It was just a whole thing, but all worked out in the end and still, yeah, she has. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Listen, I'm not trying to be a big prude about stuff, believe me. It's just one of those things where, again, we're moving up the risk factor because you're involving other people. People can either observe it, see it, it might make them feel uncomfortable. It's not I'm not making a value judgment, right or wrong but it's because it gets risky. Right, it gets risky because you're involving more people. When people start chatting, right, yeah, all right. So again we're going to move up the spectrum to our next one. Right, we've got, we've got. You find someone attractive in that crush territory. Now you're moving into flirting, as we're moving up again, as we're moving up the risk continuum here in lust. The third one is obsession, because as lust intensifies, it can really turn into obsession. This is where that whole and we see this, we see this so much right, where it's gradually and then suddenly it turns into this kind of fixation on a coworker, and this is where someone really starts to enter in. They're becoming irrational.
Speaker 2:I think that's like a danger. Yeah, that's danger territory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you, you just can't help yourself, right? This isn't love, where it's a mutual back and forth. This is someone fixating on someone else, right, it's taking over all of their feelings, like they just have to do something, and then they potentially also start ignoring things like social cues and boundaries. And here's the thing with it, right, obsessive behavior because it's in this irrational state can make things very uncomfortable for folks, can even cause fear. And then you start to even can go into again we're up on the risk territory start to feel more like a hostile work environment for someone that is the receiver of said obsession. All right, let me tell you what this looks like in real life. Again, real stories, because again we've seen it. All right.
Speaker 1:So, if you happen to not only know where your co-worker crush lives, but you've already taken the virtual tour of their house, you may be obsessed, right? If you've been so deep in their timelines and their partner's timelines and now you're in their ex's timelines, you may be obsessed. All right, this is where it becomes pretty irrational. Like you have a obsession with this person. Yeah, agreed, yeah, again, risk factor goes way up here. It's not healthy for you because, again, you're not in this rational state, but it's also really not helpful for, or healthy for, the person that might be the receiving end of it, because they may feel unsafe or, let's be honest, just completely weirded out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. We have that one story come in about that woman who said that her coworker didn't. We have that story about the woman who said her coworker was. It was someone that she just walked by daily and she started getting poems on her chair.
Speaker 1:Oh, tell the story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one woman wrote into us to tell us that she had. There was a guy at work. They returned to office every day. They passed in the hallway, kind conversation, but maybe five minutes, 10 minutes a day, tops. They only passed each and, yeah, like they have the weather, blah, blah, yeah, yeah, like some dumb stuff, right.
Speaker 2:And then she started getting these anonymous poems on her chair at work and she was like what the hell is this? And of course doesn't know where to look or who do you even ask, right, what the hell, what is this? And then one day she happened to be talking to him and she said, out of nowhere, he's oh, how do you like the poems I've left you and just dread like complete dread. Friends, that's an example of obsession, right. Like they were not even flirting, they were just daily banter, talking as coworkers. She had no idea that there might be a crush there and this guy was leaving her poems on her chair. That's a level of a one-sided obsession he was having with her. So that was a wild story that we got in, yeah.
Speaker 1:Plus poems are just a strong choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh no, oh geez, all right, they're not even good yeah, no, just kidding. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Please just put the radio head away, okay.
Speaker 1:Um again, obsession it's. Yes, it could be obsession.
Speaker 2:That's what obsession looks like.
Speaker 1:That's what obsession looks like. All right, last but not least, let's talk about the legal beagle. This does absolutely turn into harassment, as we're moving into the risk factor. Listen, here's the thing about harassment. Right, it's illegal and it can happen in flirting, it can happen in obsession, and it can happen Honestly, mel.
Speaker 1:We've seen it just because someone's a total asshole lately you know there's just some not cool people out there, but it's basically anything that is unwelcome sexual behavior that's offensive and humiliating or intimidating. It can be written, verbal, physical, and it can happen in person and online. So, through all of these different spectrum pieces, harassment can happen, and I know we've all taken the obligatory online sexual harassment training, but it's something that we should all be really well, really aware about, because this is where this risk factor ends in harassment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, that obsession story that I just told you, that's harassment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's harassment, it's absolutely harassment. So again, you can see how this stuff goes from gradually then to suddenly right, when we have things like you're attracted to someone, you have a crush, then you're moving up to flirting. You have we hear about work wife, my work husband, my work partner, if you will. Then we're going up to things like now I'm really obsessed with you into. It can turn into harassment territory really quickly. Yeah, it's a spectrum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'd love to pulse the audience here, like where have you fallen on the spectrum or what have you witnessed the most at work? You can raise your hand, we're happy to bring you up on stage. Or if you want to send us a DM, send it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, while we wait for that, I'm going to jump into the big kahuna story that was shared with us. That really touches on the full spectrum. So someone wrote into us to say the trio. The subject of their email was the trio became a duo. I'm like all right, what is this? One of our listeners wrote in to share a story based on their firsthand experience and we've changed names here because we don't want identifiers for folks who've trusted us with these stories. Essentially, a group of friends Jean, audrey and Chris. This was a trio friend group at work. They all started in the same department. They spent a lot of downtime together while in the office, got lunch, daily coffee breaks, commiserating on teams together. When shit hit the fan at work or someone annoyed them, we've all been there, right, I hope, hopefully we have a podcast called your work friends, because who doesn't love your work friends?
Speaker 2:right, that's what gets you through the day. A little bit about them. Jane, married for 10 years, two kids under 10. Audrey was just recently married. In the last year and Chris was their little single Pringle friend who leaned on Jane and Audrey often so he can get advice on his dating life and the horror stories from Hinge. Over time this friendship moved from their nine to five interaction to outside texts. No issues there, they're all friends. All three were essentially on this single chain and would send late night, early morning, weekend texts. Nothing wrong with this at all, by the way, because we all have friends at work that become our friends in life, right.
Speaker 2:But then something shifted. Audrey started noticing that Jane and Chris had a separate text chain going because essentially they started to have inside jokes that she had no clue. What are these jokes? And they were like oh, it was a conversation over the weekend or and so she asked Jane about it and she agreed, yeah, we have a separate chain going. And when she confronted Jane, not in an aggressive way but in a hey, it's weird, you guys started your own personal text chain Like why wouldn't you just keep it on the main. It's weird. And Jane's response was flippant just no, you don't really respond. Over the weekend and he wanted to chat about his disaster dates that he's having and was looking for advice. This went on for several months and Audrey was starting to notice that the banter in person seemed more flirtatious between them, so she brought it up again.
Speaker 2:Jane at this point finally fessed up that she did find herself attracted to Chris, but she was never going to act on it. She was married, she has kids, she values her family and that it was a harmless crush that she had. There was nothing that she was going to do about it. She was acknowledging it and essentially she told Audrey mind your business, like back off, you're being, you're crossing the line by even like making that assumption. And what Audrey shared with us was Jane's husband also had been giving her shit about this text exchange because he was like what are you doing? It was like late night are you doing? It was like late night texts while they were watching TV or at their kids games and stuff like that. But he was starting to pick up on this Like why are you always on your phone? Sort of behavior. About a month later they went to an outside team building event with a bunch of other folks from work Innocent bowling night probably the most unsexy event you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a big market for making bowling more sexy.
Speaker 2:I know Lucky.
Speaker 1:Strike's trying it, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's a fun, fun activity For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:So at this bowling event all was cool. Audrey noticed Jane and Chris were missing, and not just for five minutes, it was more like an hour. She didn't immediately jump to something must be going on. She just thought, all right, maybe my friends left. She went out to the parking lot and noticed Chris getting out of Jane's car. Chris saw Audrey, didn't say a thing, just smiled and waved and left. Audrey confronted Jane and Jane just lost her shit and said none of your business, we were just sitting here like adults. She couldn't help Audrey really at this point couldn't help but wonder like how much Jean might be compromising here. She also wondered if she could really be friends with this group now, knowing the lines they're both crossing. I'm going to finish the rest of this story once we get through our next session. But yeah, that's where we are with Audrey, jane and Chris. So we'll share more about the outcome of that story. But first we want to hear from you. Tell us your stories. What have you experienced?
Speaker 1:This is where the crickets happen. Mel, no one wants to share.
Speaker 2:I'll text us later.
Speaker 1:The thing that I love about doing the pod a it's fun. It's fun to jam with mel, as, of course, um, but also just the stories people share with us. We've seen a lot of this in our work, but also just the stories people. This is tough stuff to get through too, because it can be really gray situations. It can be sticky situations like this one. Right, this to me was like a lot of this stuff doesn't happen overtly. I will tell you the majority of stuff that we see it's not harassment. It's in this gray schmutz that you're like, oh God this is.
Speaker 2:It can quickly get there, though, or it's just like we're not going to be hypocrites. Obviously, one of my longest relationships was with a work friend and we're friends, and you married your crush, so it can turn out really well, but again, we're going to keep going back to that risk factor. It all depends on if that's a mutually exclusive feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to know 100%.
Speaker 2:So that's going to lead me to the next piece. But look, you might be asking yourself what happened next with Audrey, jane and Chris, and we're going to get to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to know were those windows fogged up or not? No, they weren't, it wasn't that serious?
Speaker 2:No, All right, we're going to get to that. But what do you do if you? Here's the thing. What do you do if you're in this situation and you find yourself as the sinner? Or what do you do if you see someone else committing the sin or they're a victim of a sin? What can you do to protect other people? So we discussed up front this stuff happens on a spectrum. What defines what you should do next really requires you to take a look at that spectrum and decide where's my situation at? Where does it fall If you find yourself on the low end of the spectrum? We talked about crush attraction, but it's not really communicated. Congratulations, You're a human being. At this stage, you likely haven't crossed any boundaries. You've remained respectful and are just admiring from afar. I our advice to you, maybe get out in the world.
Speaker 2:It's a lot larger than the workplace. Um, and we get it because it's easy. Work hot probably happens more often than we like to think but truly, if the world's a big place, start an ick list to check if they're work hot or not. If you're really attracted to someone, you're not going to have a long ick list. If that helps you manage that cool. If your office friend is confiding in you that they have a crush or attraction to someone else nothing to do really, but maybe encourage them to get outside and be a friend and have a real convo about just the risks of exploring things beyond that space. If you find yourself in that medium part of the spectrum we're talking about flirting here it's still relatively harmless. Right, we get it. Flirting is fun and it helps the time pass, it lightens the mood in high stress environments. But again, there's a difference between fun banter and flirting. So just know, if you move into flirting territory, that's when your risk continues to increase.
Speaker 2:Being at the stage can turn into the danger zone super quickly. If you find yourself flirting with a colleague, you just want to take a moment and really pause and reflect why, why am I flirting with this person? Are you truly interested in them in a romantic way, or is there a way to keep the day is? I'm just using this as a way to keep my day interesting? As, Francesca, you mentioned earlier, you're bored. What are you doing If you're truly interested? Are you certain they feel the same way? Because that's a huge risk too. What are the risks if this goes further or if you ask them out? This stage is truly stop and reflect the opportunity part of the spectrum, right? If your workroom doesn't feel the same way, it can start to really move the needle over into that obsession or harassment zone. So you're going to really have to check yourself here, or, if you witness it like you, might have to check someone that you know about it.
Speaker 1:This is the place where I will tell you flirting is the place where you want to start to intervene.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or to check yourself and ask yourself why.
Speaker 2:Or just really gut check, yeah, yeah, check yourself before you wreck yourself is innocent flirting. Maybe you decided, yeah, this is worth pursuing, but the other person doesn't have the same feelings. They're maybe showing signs of discomfort when you try to flirt with them and you're not picking up on what they're putting down.
Speaker 2:Or others are visibly not comfortable when you talk about this person with affection and you're observing this, but you're not picking it up. So if you're the center, if you reach the obsession stage, you really need to stop. This is not the okay stage. And if you're truly not reading the room here, look confide in a close friend outside of work who has no skin in the game. Get their outside objective or point of view here. If you value your career, credibility, integrity, relationships, you're going to find a way to get back to the low zone and admire from afar.
Speaker 2:Right, if you're not the center, but you see this happening. Approach a neutral party like an ombuds rep or a leader that you trust to share what you're observing or hearing. It's likely the person who might be on the other end of things doesn't know what to do and they need an ally in the workplace. And if you hear this kind of talk about someone, speak up and say you're not interested in hearing about their interest in a colleague and you prefer to stick to work topics. Boundaries is the name of the game here. You never want to be in the high zone as a sinner or witnessing the sin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, by the way, friends, nobody wants poems. Nobody wants poems, nobody wants poems.
Speaker 2:Please just stop with poems, all right, just say no to poems. Just say no. Look, if you don't check yourself, you're gonna end up in the high zone. Or if nothing changes for a colleague you're witnessing this with and you've tried bringing that down, you may have entered the illegal zone. If you're the sinner, I hope you have money for an attorney because you've just entered the sexual harassment stage.
Speaker 2:But but if you're watching a friend or a colleague harass another, you do have a duty to report it to leadership and to HR and in writing. If you actively see something happen, you might not always be able to diffuse the situation just because of your own safety. So you really have to assess your level of risk, the other person's level of risk for safety and others. But it is an intervene moment if you're witnessing this sin happen at this stage. So let's hear more about the trio that became a duo and their situation and what happened here with them on that spectrum. Francesco, how do you feel about that? How do you feel about the story with Audrey, jane and Chris?
Speaker 1:I feel here's my thing, right it's. I'll tell you, when I first heard this story I was come on man, because this is such a it's such a common story.
Speaker 2:Tale as old as time.
Speaker 1:Tale as old as time. Yeah, it is, we hear it, we hear it a lot. It again. You're just like wow, I really like this person. Wow, Now we're flirting. No, they're all the. They're all I want to talk to, or they're right in person I want to talk to, and then it becomes very public in a lot of different ways. And this is this is the thing with this story, career wise, it's not great for you because again people will start to talk, and I know that it's not great for you, Because again people will start to talk. And I know that it's not a fairness thing, it just happens quite a bit. But I also think it usually also happens when there are other things that are happening in these people's lives as well Families, kids, that whatever. So it's just there's so much collateral schmutz here, that is just. But it's just there's so much collateral schmutz here, that is just. But it's at that point of flirting and obsession with that fulcrum point where we see it and where people really need to check themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, even if you end up dating your work crush, because it was mutually exclusive and you assessed your risk at each stage and then you checked with each other for all of the things. Because you married your work crush, I did.
Speaker 2:But at least to that good news. It's still going. But at the same time, one of you had to leave that job ultimately because you couldn't work together. There are trade-offs, even if it works out, folks. So there are all these things to consider, right? So let's get back to Jane, audrey and Chris.
Speaker 2:As you can imagine, as what happens, rumors started to swirl Fair or not fair, folks, because it wasn't just Audrey who had been noticing this office flirtation and it wasn't just Audrey, their close friend, that noticed they had been missing for an hour. Come to find out, alex, the resident office gossip. He saw Chris get out of Jane's car too and, although it was unfair of him to jump to conclusions, that's exactly what happened and it spread like wildfire throughout the office. So months of someone reported it to HR. There was a whole investigation. Clearly that's causing stress for all three of them. Jane thought Audrey spread the rumor. Their friendship ended. Audrey lost respect for Jane and Chris decided to end their friendship altogether. Chris ended up quitting within a month after all the schmutz went down because, turns out, he wasn't really willing to be with Jane, who was about to give up her whole life for him. He was just bored at work. So he bounced and then Jane's husband actually found out about the incident. Why? Because he had a friend that he met from the previous holiday party who felt it was necessary to tell him what happened, what was going down, and her husband ultimately threatened to leave her if she didn't find another job. So guess what? She also ended up leaving.
Speaker 2:Guys, this is like an extreme case of what happened, but you could see how this started on the spectrum right. It started out with zero, zero and quickly moved up into the danger zone, like it became obsession. I would say. Chris and Jane likely had an unhealthy obsession with each other and they were also bored in their life. Chris didn't have this primetime dating life. He was not finding fulfillment there. Jane whatever was going on with her fed into this, but ultimately it just blew up everyone's lives. So no winners in this situation. But when this story came into us, we're like, yeah, this covers the whole spectrum. This shows how quickly something can go from being really low to really high on the spectrum of lust and fast.
Speaker 1:And if I could, friend to friend, tell you anything. If I want you to take away anything from this call one work hot is a thing and two, nobody wants poems. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Oh and three, start your ick list.
Speaker 1:Start your ick. List. Yeah, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, if anyone wants to come up or raise your hand and come up on stage where you want to share a story or your thoughts on the spectrum, all right, we have some questions coming a raised, but yeah, let's do it. I think we have some raised hands.
Speaker 1:Let's let's do it I'm so interested, here we go. We're inviting you as a speaker.
Speaker 3:Hello hi hi everyone, what's going on? Hi melissa, hi frances.
Speaker 2:Hello, nice, to meet you.
Speaker 3:I'm all right, I just wanted to guess because I just actually just came to this live, so I only got just, I guess, a five-minute snippet of what you guys were informing about. But if we're talking about a workplace, I don't necessarily have those encounters. I necessarily just be to myself when it comes down to work. Because I'm a very leader-driven, I operate more in integrity. So if it comes down to work, when it comes down to work, of course I'm just all about work. However, when it comes down to colleagues and if we're meshing well together, trying to collab on certain projects, there are times where I just feel like, okay, maybe this isn't for me.
Speaker 3:Where I do have, sometimes I do have a little bit of doubts and I try to go down to a different route where it comes to like career wise. So I wanted to ask if a situation like that ever happened, like what you guys were talking about, meaning as far as like a workplace goes, like how do you identify that? Like, how is that coming around about? Because if I'm reporting to HR, I'm only just reporting necessarily about. If I've already accounted this situation before, like with a colleague, like from my previous jobs, I don't necessarily complain, I just go to my upper hand or to an HR If there's anything suspicious or is anything that you know that might've bothered me. I just talk about certain things, but I wanted to ask, like, how does that come down to people in the workplace? Like, how is that like a rollout for folks to notice certain things?
Speaker 2:One. I think you just notice if that stuff's going on, right. Some of it's more blatant. If it's your friend, you're going to notice it more, right, because you know their behaviors. You know when they're flirting, when they're not flirting. If it's yourself, if you're flirting, you know what I'm saying, you know your own behaviors and how that's showing up. If it's someone you don't know, there really is no way to tell, right? So you wouldn't just go complain to HR because you suspect something.
Speaker 2:I think if you blatantly see that behavior and you're witnessing something that someone else is experiencing and you're concerned for their safety or other safety, absolutely you should report it and you should go to leadership and report it. If you don't know for certain I don't know that there's something you can do I would think you'd have to blatantly see that behavior going on, what's happening. If it's your friend and it's someone that you can talk to about their behaviors, certainly talk to your friend if you feel comfortable about it, right. Especially, as you said to you, work is work. You don't mix work with personal life and that is probably the safest thing anyone can do, right? But if you are like you see someone else that's doing it and you care about them and they're like at the low zone, but you're like, hey, man, maybe you should also just think work is work. Give them that advice. I think that's sage, francesca. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen. I think the other thing I would share is that if you see something and it makes you uncomfortable, or and you report it to HR, what's going to happen is HR is going to do their own investigation to see if something's going on Right, and they're going to look at who else is in the room. They're going to talk to that person as well. They're going to talk to that person's team. So, just to know that, you can go to HR if you feel uncomfortable and they can take it from there right. You don't need to do any type of investigation or anything yourself. Do not investigate yourself.
Speaker 1:No, I do not, but well, I think what you're saying is safe or safe bet.
Speaker 3:Okay. So when it comes down, obviously, when a lot of folks I don't know how to really identify it, but I'm trying. I'm still getting used to certain things like really just setting boundaries when it comes down to work, how do you just I don't know if this is something that you're supposed to tap into when it comes down to the workforce and workplace, how do you identify those things? Is it somebody that, regardless of if I'm talking to HR, do I connect with that person still to really see things on a more self-aware spectrum in a sense, if that makes sense, do I connect with that HR representative to see things for what they are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think if you have listen, here's the deal. If you have questions about like specific behavior, one is HR is always a good person or a good place to ask is this something right that you should be telling someone about? Sometimes your manager can be that as well. Sometimes people are trained well in that or not, but I think HR is always if you have a question about it, if you have a concern about it. I would ask somebody in HR, right?
Speaker 1:I think the big thing the big legal listen, a lot of this gets really nuanced. That's why we've been talking about stuff happens in a spectrum, right, this stuff that you really, if you want to look at what do you really need to be concerned about look under the guidelines of what constitutes sexual harassment. That's going to be the stuff where you absolutely should know that right. Unwanted touching, unwanted comments, asking people out harassment, that kind of stuff. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a good golden rule of thumb is if you have a concern, if you don't know, ask HR. And if you want to look deeper, check out what sexual harassment is.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for the question.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, we have a few other. We got a few DMs here. You ready? Oh cool, yeah, if anyone else wants to come up, just raise your hand. I love the question, kian. Thank you, Mel, first question. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm reading this. Sorry, I have a crush on my coworker. I think they feel the same way.
Speaker 2:Should right, I have a crush on my coworker.
Speaker 1:I think they feel the same way. Should I ask them out? It depends, it depends. A nice legal answer. Tell me more.
Speaker 2:We just talked about it, right. What's your risk level? What? What do you think it's reciprocated? Do you think there's interest error? I like asking it, depending on your workplace policy, which you should as we just talked about with Kian, right, like you should always know your workplace policy about this stuff, because some workplaces don't even want people dating. They have policies about it, right, but know your risk factor. As we said once, you involve other people, your risk factor goes up. So you're not exactly. You may not have something about sexual harassment for asking someone out once, but look, if they say no, be prepared for a couple of things, right, like personally, maybe they back off from being your work friend because they were not. Suddenly it makes things weird. Or if they say no, don't ask them out again because then that turns into harassment, right. So I think this is an always it depends situation, and it's the whole reason why we're talking about the spectrum, because this stuff happens. But check your risk factor and what risk you're willing to take there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two other things, yeah. One is if you are at a higher ranking person than this person, absolutely do not ask them out. Do not no bueno station, do not. I don't know where no bueno station came in, but don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. The other thing is just in the awkwardness. This isn't an HR policy, this is just a friend of friend. If they're on the same team, just really make sure. Yeah, really consider that. Oh, geez, we've seen some interesting fallouts.
Speaker 2:Even if it works out right, say they say yes, you go on a date, it's still a risky thing. Think about when you first started dating your husband. Were you not a little nervous? What if this blows up that? Was a risk you had to assess right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if I was thinking straight. Yeah, I was. There's always a risk factor. The closer to home, the more risk.
Speaker 2:That's all I'm going to say Absolutely. What's that saying? Every grandmother tells their friends don't poop where you eat. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, listen, it's a crude but just analogy. Yes, yeah, Mel. Next thing how do you get?
Speaker 1:over your work, crush, I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you get over your work crush? I see. Yeah, how do you get over your work crush? Go for a walk and find a hobby no, I drink a lot.
Speaker 1:That was a good thing. Yeah, this one's tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think like crushes are crushes for a reason. They're not meant to be a long-term thing. Just start meeting other people, I don't know, go out, get social, read a good book. But I think you just have to get through it. I don't think there's a getting over, I think it's just a getting through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think this one goes back to really be honest with yourself here. All right, with this work, crush A. Is this a work hot situation? Are you just it's because?
Speaker 2:you're there.
Speaker 1:Get that ick list going, quite I. I hate to say that, but you want to get over someone. You might want to think about the ways that you don't need them in that capacity. Right, right, ick list, yeah, all right. Um, is it normal to have a work crush? Oh shit, excuse my french, is it? No, I saw, oh jeez what is? It. Is it normal to have a work crush while in a relationship? No.
Speaker 2:We just told the freaking story of Audrey, jane and Chris, so apparently, yeah, yes, it could happen. Look, I think, when that stuff happens, though and I've seen a million Audrey, jane, chris situations during the course of my career that's because people are not addressing things in their personal life and they're looking for there's something about that other person that either reminds them of something that was once in their relationship or reminds them of something that they're missing, and so it's like false attention to, rather than dealing with, their own stuff. So, yeah, I think the yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 1:Is it normal, absolutely? I think that's absolutely. I used to. I never tell about that. I worked with this woman when I first started with this. I don't know why this just popped in my head. I worked with this woman when I first started working in corporate. That told me like genuinely seemed very happy in her marriage. All this good jazz, and she's Francesca. You always need to have a back burner guy what I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding. She always felt like she needed to have somebody that was on the back burner just in case. And when I think about work crushes while you're in a relationship, it reminds me of that kind of concept of, yeah, is it normal, absolutely?
Speaker 2:that kind of concept of yeah, is it normal? Absolutely Sure. But it's what you do If it becomes like a you're Jane, you're married with two kids, and that is going on for a long time. You're compromising your that's not the good zone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't want that to go up into. Don't get it up into obsession, friends, don't get it up into obsession. Yeah, Don't be checking their property value or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Just yeah, that's not a good one. All right, I got one another one here. How do I get over my crushes? Rejection at work you quit.
Speaker 1:That is what you do. You just leave and run away. No, I'm just joking, you just do you walk away?
Speaker 2:Walk away, oh man. Well, this stuff happens. The stats are out there. We found a million articles about this when we were researching for this session today, so hopefully you got some good tidbits out of it. We'd love to hear from you. You can follow us on Apple or Spotify. We do have a podcast. It's called your Work Friends Podcast. We bring in experts every two weeks to talk about all of this work schmutz, and then we're covering all the stuff in the headlines that we're hearing every other week, because there's plenty to talk about. Francesca, what would you?
Speaker 1:add yeah, feel free to join us over on our LinkedIn group or connect in on Fishbowl with Mel or I If you have any questions or comments about work, we talk to people all week, every week day, about their work experience and also we'd love to see you back in two weeks. Same time, same place, where we're talking about wrath, wrath, anger. Friends. Have you ever been yelled at in a meeting, or maybe you've been yelled at or you've also yelled? That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Anger man. Another juicy Anger, woof that's a perfect. Another juicy Yep. Thanks for being with us today. Friends, it was good to see all your faces and we look forward to seeing you in two weeks, if you join us back. Bye friends, bye friends.