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Your Work Friends
🔥 #4: Envy - From Our Fishbowl LIVE "7 Deadly Work Sins" Summer Series
From our LIVE event on Fishbowl...
Let's talk about...ENVY
You know envy, that little green monster that likes to show up from time-to-time.
🔥 Maybe your co-worker got the promotion you've been waiting for for three years.
🔥 Maybe your college roommate made a billion dollars in tech and your back in your parents basement.
🔥 Or, maybe you find yourself hovering over the delete button of that very important presentation your teammate needs to deliver tomorrow.
At work, envy shows itself in a lot of different ways, and we want to talk about. How you can recognize it, how you can manage it, and what to do if you're a victim of someone's jealousy.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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On that note, folks welcome to Envy. So hi, old friends and new friends, it's officially midsummer here in the US, and what better way to take a midweek break from work than to talk about all of the shit we never really get to talk about. I'm Mel and I am Francesca, and we have been working in HR for a long ass time. Francesca, how long have you been in HR?
Speaker 2:Two decades hit my 20 year mark and did not get a gift no ice cream maker, no gold watch, no special watch. Just a lot of memories. Just a lot of memories. Yeah, how about you?
Speaker 1:Mel, same same. I reached that milestone and I've got the scars to prove it. But, and with that, hey, listen, folks, if you want the good stories, always ask your friend in HR, because we have seen it all, we have heard it all and we really mean it all. And a few months ago, francesca and I started a podcast to start talking about it, and that podcast is your work friends and we are just two HR friends and we have no filter and our goal is to really help you all through the work shit. And throughout our experience, one thing has really remained true there are things that really trip people up and sometimes it totally destroys their career, and we want to address it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you want to know what those things are that really mess people up. It's the raw human emotions that no one really talks about, or we like to call them the sins, if you will, and, funny enough, they fall into the traditional seven deadly sins, because when you apply these at work, whoa. But the thing is it's really interesting, as Mel and I have experienced them as HR professionals or even personally. Look, we have all experienced them from time to time. But if you don't handle them well, they're deal breakers big time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Listen. In this series and we've already covered a few we covered lust, wrath, gluttony, and today we're talking about envy. And before you think you're immune to this envy emotion, these few things just happened in the last few weeks. Here's what we heard from some of our podcast listeners. So one listener wrote in to us to ask for advice because she recently got promoted and the team members who she worked with now iced her out and are gossiping about her and ultimately creating rumors that are hurting her credibility, and she doesn't know how to address it. Essentially, someone else on the team also went after that promotion, but she got it, so now there's an ice out happening.
Speaker 1:Another listener shared with us that a colleague and he can't really identify who deleted his presentation the morning of a big meeting with leadership.
Speaker 1:All traces of that presentation were gone and he had to just present things on the fly.
Speaker 1:Another person reached out asking us for advice because she just started a new team and one of her teammates keeps providing her with the wrong instructions or they're leaving one major detail out of the process so in front of others, they can swoop in and save the day while she looks incompetent in her new job. And then another listener told us that he helped build a custom solution at his company. He's getting a ton of recognition for that project, but his partner on the project continues to undercut and belittle him in meetings where decision makers are and under his breath he'll make offhanded comments about him and his work while being nice to his face. So at every step, when he asks his colleague for help on the project or their thoughts, this person will promise one thing in private and then in public, claiming never asked to do that, completely discrediting our listener. And his hunch here is this person just doesn't like that. He's getting all the accolades for the work. Man Francesca, we have our own stories too, right. You have a story about this, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's what's interesting about all these sins You're either the sinner or you're the victim of the sin or the bystander right, and in this I was the victim of a sin and I actually didn't even realize this until I left a company and people told me what was going on. But I had a peer of mine who was new to the team but was a really established person with the company. I basically found out after I left that company that she was secretly sabotaging me behind my back, and what people told me why was? Because that she was envious of me, which I have a hard time believing. But some of this stuff she did was fascinating, as I found out afterwards. So that was not fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it sucks too right. Especially you, like you have no idea that it was going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't believe it, Like you're, like is this really happening? This isn't really happening, but people do.
Speaker 1:People in their feelings, man yeah.
Speaker 1:What about you. I mean, I will say I was probably the sinner. I have a classic early in your career kind of envy story, you know. I think I think, before I understood my own definition of success, I was probably looking too externally for that validation, um, and I would often compare my accomplishments to my coworkers accomplishments and ultimately just feel inadequate about my own achievements or, you know, competencies, which is a huge mistake, right? Because? Because one comparison is the thief of joy and two, we all bring a collective set of skills and that's what matters most. So, but early 20s, I think everyone goes through that. Did you go through that?
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm in my 40s and I'm still going through that.
Speaker 1:Gotta work on it. Gotta work on it yeah.
Speaker 2:Hashtag run your own race. I get it, but yeah, absolutely, absolutely Went through that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's fair. Listen, uh, envy yikes. You know envy, it's that green little monster that likes to show up from time to time. Maybe your coworker got the promotion you've been waiting for for three years. Maybe your college roommate made a billion dollars in tech and you're back in your parents' basement. Or maybe you find yourself hovering over the delete button of someone's very important presentation that they need to deliver tomorrow, because you just want to see someone fail At work.
Speaker 1:Envy shows itself in a lot of different ways and we're going to talk about it. So buckle up Today's agenda. We're going to cover how you can recognize it, how you can manage it and what to do if you're a victim of someone else's envy. And listen, francesca and I love to talk about this stuff and, more importantly, we want to hear about your experiences too. So it's going to be super interactive. If you want to come up on stage, raise your hand. If you have a question or a thought that you'd like to contribute, send us a DM. We'll be checking them throughout the episode and at the end we're going to leave time to answer any of your burning envy questions or sticky situations. Again, you can come up on stage or DM us, and so, yeah, we'll keep that anonymous. If you DM us, just let us know that you want to be anonymous. We love all the impromptu conversation, though. If that sounds good, let's get started. Francesca, should we get into it? We?
Speaker 2:absolutely got. I just totally put the accent on the wrong syllable there. We absolutely should, mel. Yes, I love when that happens.
Speaker 1:All right. So let's talk about the envy spectrum. Here's the deal 99.9% of us have experienced envy at work. A study from the University of California, san Diego, discovered that 79% of women and 74% of men reported feeling envious of someone within the previous year alone. Jealousy seems to be more common among younger people myself, as I just noted with 80% of people younger than 30 saying they had experienced envy within the past year. In contrast to that, 69% of people aged 50 and older admitted to feeling jealous of someone. So the good news, folks as you get older, you give less of a shit. So that's a positive.
Speaker 1:It seems that occupational envy does peak near your middle age. Career jealousy rose from 22% among young adults in their 20s to about 43% among participants in their 40s, which makes total sense, right? It's around that time, your 30s, 40s, where you start really striving for potentially leadership positions and other things. You start to see people's careers really take off. But then again it dropped to 36% among participants who are age 50 and older. So the older you get, the less you care, the less envious you get.
Speaker 1:So what is envy? Plain and simple terms, it's a painful or resentful awareness of an advantage or possession enjoyed by somebody else and you have the desire to possess that same thing. Envy often stems from feelings of inadequacy or unfairness, and research supports the fact that envy most easily afflicts people who suffer from low self-esteem or have a self-serving approach to life. It's been estimated that up to 10% of our thoughts involve comparisons to other people in some way. I'm going to go back to. Comparison is a thief of joy, so just always have that in your back pocket.
Speaker 1:That's really what the root of jealousy in the workplace is. It's a social comparison theory. The gist of this theory is that we match ourselves up against other people, like our coworkers, to understand how are we doing and what's the perception of that comparison and how that directly impacts our own self-image and our own self-worth. And so when your colleagues are getting promoted, it's hard not to view their success as a personal failure of yourself, although it's really not. It's hard not to view it that way. Envy is completely normal. It that way, envy is completely normal. But if envy is unchecked, it's uber complex and it can manifest itself in various ways at work and at different levels, with varying impacts and risk factors here. So our goal today is to walk you through that spectrum and help prevent you from getting on the wrong side of that spectrum. So we're going to talk about the envy spectrum from low to illegal. How does that sound, francesca?
Speaker 2:I love to talk about illegal shit.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to start with number one First on the spectrum. We're on the low end of the spectrum here. It's that mild jealousy, folks. Uh, this is when the green eyed monster is starting to just open its eyelids a little. Maybe it's ripening the sleep out of its eyes, right? It's pretty common for everyone to have done this or witnessed someone else doing this in the workplace. It looks like occasionally glancing at your colleague's achievements or possessions with mild envy. Anyone else a LinkedIn lurker here? Guilty, francesca, you, you're a LinkedIn lurker, right.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you could be. What? Why are you outing me, Mo?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I thought we were being honest here. All right, I do it.
Speaker 2:Everyone does it.
Speaker 1:Raise your hand if you do it, okay.
Speaker 2:This is the whole thing with social media right, like whether it's Instagram, tech talk, linkedin, whatever right it's like. It's that whole social comparison.
Speaker 1:Why can't I do that? Yeah, should I be doing that.
Speaker 2:We all do that, we all do it.
Speaker 1:You get those alerts and you're like, no, um, maybe it looks like feeling a twinge of jealousy, but you quickly move on right. That's the whole point. This is quick and then it doesn't ruin your whole day, you just kind of move past it. Um, maybe you're thinking about personal goals and aspirations inspired by other success and it doesn't really meet your definition of success. You're trying to really meet those external definitions of a success and occasionally you might make harmless jokes or comments about someone else's success to make yourself feel better. In fact, a study on envy in the workplace noted 44% of people felt jealous of a coworker or boss at least once a week. That's how normal this is, folks.
Speaker 2:I actually think that number is low. I think that number is low.
Speaker 1:You think it's low? I know people are lying. People are lying. No one wants to get called out. Let's just own it. That's the first step owning it. Francesca, have you ever expressed one of these?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Listen. I am naturally, as I mentioned earlier, I'm naturally competitive.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'll own this too. When I look at LinkedIn, when I first see someone has the big job or something of the sort, my initial reaction and I'm working on this, but my initial reaction will be like, oh shit, I failed. Or oh shit, I'm falling behind it. Just, it's like my natural tendency. Now I'm working on obviously flipping that into good for them. They deserve that. That doesn't mean I'm failing, right. Okay, here's my, here's my therapy session, guys. But it's my natural, it's, it is my natural inclination, for sure, yeah, I think that's totally normal.
Speaker 1:Uh, anyone in the audience? Uh, feel free to come up on stage if you want to share your own, your own story here. Uh, the risk factor on this side of things super low, right, as long as you're keeping these feelings to yourself, you're working through your emotions. There's really not a lot of risk here. Watch those harmless jokes, though, because that might not be as harmless as you think.
Speaker 1:That starts to teeter into number two, which we're going to talk about, which is toxic competitiveness. So, moving along here on the spectrum, this is toxic competitiveness and we're not talking about healthy competition, which does exist in the workplace. Healthy competition has positive motivation tied to it, right, it fosters camaraderie, it's centered in fairness, it feels inspiring. When we talk about toxic competitiveness at this stage in the spectrum, we mean competition that's driven by fear, pressure, negative incentives. This type of competitiveness in the workplace is centered on individualism and it can look like a coworker who frequently makes basic work projects a competitive playing field versus a collaboration field. I've experienced that before. Have you when you're like this is just a simple project, dude, why are you making this such a big deal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're like simmer down, yeah, not so serious.
Speaker 1:This could also look like a coworker who's going behind the scenes to sell themselves and to do a work grab. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this. We've experienced that before. Um, someone openly discussing why they think they're better for the job or for the work, but in undercutting you in the process, um, feeling frequent irritation or frustration when seeing others succeed. So again, differentiation from level one, which is low, where you just kind of feel that twinge but then you move on. It really doesn't impact your day. But if you start moving into I'm looking at that person's profile now once a month to see what's up that's frequent irritation and frustration. Or if you're regularly comparing yourself to colleagues and it it played, you know, to colleagues that places them in a better light. It's just your, your self worth is really taking a hit here. So that's toxic competition. It's all focused on the individual, where healthy competition is focused on the greater good. Francesca, you know toxic competitiveness in the workplace when you see it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll tell you, I see it a lot more in organizations that have not clearly outlined what it takes to succeed there, right Especially you know like if you don't have clear capabilities, clear guidelines for promotion, clear guidelines for why people are promoted, et cetera, this is going to run rampant.
Speaker 1:I've seen it too, where certain leaders have created that environment and they almost like it, have they?
Speaker 2:like it.
Speaker 1:They like it. I witnessed that before where one leader they had a small team and they would often like, uh, the, the leader of their team would manage a few people and they would often go to their people to get them to do things, overpassing the leader who reported to them to then create this competitiveness between that leader and their own team, which was super toxic.
Speaker 1:It was weird, anyway, all right. Well, folks, we'd love to do a pulse check with you If you're just joining us. We're talking about envy. We are on spectrum two, which is toxic competitiveness, so would love to hear from you, be honest, how many of you have experienced toxic competitiveness at work and listen, you're not alone here. Resume Lab conducted a study and a little over 30% of people feel like their work culture is toxically competitive.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Every single place I've worked there have been a few people that you just know them right, they're just. I love when we refer to them as assholes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the risk. Look when you get to this space. If you are the one who is in this toxic competitive space and you're doing the behaviors we talked about, the risk factor for you goes way up here, because it kills collaboration, it kills innovation, kills productivity and really starts to breed resentment. It's also really horrible for our overall health. Who the hell wants to have the Sunday scaries every day? That's the kind of environment it creates. So when you're in a toxic competitive environment, this is when people start jumping ship. While being as being impacted. It's totally in the toilet. And if you're the toxic competitor, this is when people start talking about you, talking about not wanting to work with you. Your brand and credibility really start to take a hit here If you get to this space really start to take a hit here.
Speaker 2:If you get to this space. I'll also say too, I've, you know, having led teams for a long time, too, as a leader. I know those people that are pulling into this space, and I can tell you that that's one of those things that I'm trying to shut. I'll shut down really quickly as well. You might think you're being slick, You're not.
Speaker 1:it's, it's not a good look. Yeah, my favorite thing when someone uh tries to do the undercut is say oh, have you talked to that person about it yet? Like your recommendations, just put it back on anyway. All right, I know we're going to talk about what to do about it, so I'm not going to go there yet. Let's move on to three.
Speaker 1:So as a reminder, on the spectrum we're going from low to illegal. We've just crossed the midpoint. We're inching closer to illegal with resentment and discontent. So as envy intensifies, it really starts to turn into resentment and discontent. And if you don't stop at toxic competitiveness not checking yourself there you're going to find yourself here at this stage. Not checking yourself there you're going to find yourself here at this stage.
Speaker 1:Someone feeling resent or discontent is really not addressing why they feel undervalued or dissatisfied in their workplace and, quite frankly, they're probably just acting like an asshole, as we just talked about. So when you reach this stage of envy, it looks like actively trying to one-up colleagues by bragging about your personal achievements while discounting theirs, downplaying colleagues' success or spreading rumors to undermine them, engaging in gossip and negative talk about colleagues, showing visible annoyance or disdain when colleagues are praised or recognized. I have personally witnessed that in meetings before. It's really it sucks when you see that Withholding effort or just not cooperating with your team members so it starts to kind of be this mini sabotage that's happening, or just using isolation tactics like excluding team members from meetings and communications to set them up to fail.
Speaker 1:These are usually the behaviors of the resentment space. This can lead to a hostile work environment, though, where tensions are really running high, and it also hurts the organization. If you're in an environment like this, it likely looks like turnover rates have really started to pick up and the risk factor here goes way, way up this side of the spectrum. Whether you're the center or on the receiving end of the center, or you're the center, on the or on the receiving end of the center, or you're just a bystander. It's totally bad news. It isn't healthy. If someone's reached this level of the spectrum, they're not being rational and they're not likely not thinking about all the risks or the impacts, and for the folks around them, this can make them feel unsafe and just totally kind of weirded out by this behavior. It sucks.
Speaker 2:This is the one, too, where I will tell you envy is one of those quote unquote sins that will go from zero to 60, or from malice to this, so fast. I'm talking in the middle of hours, days sometimes, because they'll fester on it and they'll get to these behaviors really quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen it. Unlike some of the other sins that might take months or whatever, this one's like oh, this can happen immediately. I've seen it all happen in the same meeting. It just happens so quick and look like at this stage, if you're the sinner, you've become a huge liability for your company because of the demonstrated behavior and any positive brand reputation you've built is definitely on the brink of extinction because this straight up unprofessional behavior. Hmm, all right, I'm going to move along to our illegal stage here. Um, listen, here's the thing. Illegal stage here. Listen, here's the thing.
Speaker 1:Stage four is sabotage. Once someone's reached this stage, it's almost 100% become a liability and likely illegal. It can look like hacking into email accounts. It can look like stealing or destroying a colleague's work or property out of spite, stealing ideas and concepts and presenting them as your own or selling them externally, leaking confidential information to get colleagues in trouble, engaging in blackmail or other criminal activities to harm your colleagues. And if you don't think folks take it to this level, let me have a quick story time, if I will. Can I divulge a story, francesca, are you open to a quick story? I love I will. Can I divulge a story, francesca, are you open to a quick story? I love the stories, I love this and, look, I read this on Reddit, so take it for what it will.
Speaker 1:But this woman reached out to say that and this was in the UK folks her coworker sabotaged her for more than a decade to make her think she was going insane. So this was like some small company. She was ultimately the victim of the sinner here and over the course of that 10 years she had to actually undergo psychiatric evaluations and Alzheimer evaluation. She was banned from working remotely because her employer said she was incompetent due to mistakes, and she even lost out on promotions over what happened here. Her coworker used his IT credentials to hack into her work and he would change things like small changes in her Excel spreadsheets just enough, where it was like you weren't sure if you made the mistake or what was going on, and he did this for years. He would go into her documents and just change a word or two and over time her reputation was massively damaged. His sabotage was only discovered after he was fired for verbally attacking another woman in the office and when they scrubbed his computer after he left. That's when they discovered what he'd been doing. She wasn't the only colleague, by the way. He was doing this too. He was doing it to multiple. Anyway, she noted she was pressing charges and going after him personally because of it, and so was the company. So there's that.
Speaker 1:So listen, don't be this person that reaches the sabotage level at this stage of the spectrum. The risk level is red alert zone and likely illegal, and you don't want to end up here. So understanding the spectrum of envy in the workplace is really essential for maintaining a respectful and professional work environment, and by recognizing these different levels of envy and the potential impact, individuals, organizations can all take proactive measures to really prevent anything from getting to that high risk zone. So keep it in mind, but want to do a quick pulse check Again? We're wrapping up the spectrum of envy. If you're just joining us, thank you.
Speaker 1:Does anyone here recognize yourself in any of these scenarios? Where have you fallen on the spectrum? Let us know what have you witnessed. If you want to come up on stage, you can, and I do have someone who submitted a DM and they will remain anonymous. But they did say the shittiest thing they saw last year was their line manager misusing his seniority to manage the messaging and control the narrative, to discount their work, to put his work forward, only by discrediting them and implying that their work sits with his, when in fact it was the other way around. So, needless to say, this was completely infuriating and it was wrong for the business and for the clients and either asking for advice. So, if you're okay with it, I think we're going to table it for the end when we get to Q and a, if that's all right. But thank you for sharing your story. We will come back to this. So, francesca, you have a story too. You have a real life story we're going to talk about now. Yeah, oh, let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the credit stealing. I want to talk about that too. Nothing makes me more in fuego, okay. So one of the things that I love about doing the pod is that we have a really tight community, which is so fun, and we get a lot of stories and we get a lot of questions as well, and before each of these episodes, we always ask for stories that people have had in terms of how they've experienced these sins. So here's one. We've anonymized it just because, again, we don't want to out anybody. So here's the story.
Speaker 2:Lisa was a dedicated employee at a very well-known tech company for about five years Strong performer, key contributor on a lot of really high profile, successful projects and despite her hard work, she never felt like she got the recognition that she deserved and she's been overlooked for promotions twice, overlooked for promotions twice. Last year, a guy named Tom joined the company likable guy, good performer and he actually got promoted to a managerial position before she did. And not only did this shock Lisa, but it angered Lisa because she thought she deserved that promotion more due to her tenure and her consistent performance. Like, how did this guy that just joined and is a good performer, not as good as she was get promoted over her Pissed. After the announcement of Tom's promotion, lisa began to express her frustration to close colleagues. She would question Tom's qualifications and spread rumors about him as well, suggesting things like there must have been some sort of like favoritism or connections to get the promotion. Like there's. There's no way. This guy got it on his own merit. He has to know somebody based on what information to.
Speaker 1:It's just so shitty to think that way.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you right now, people believe their own tape. Yeah, ok, the other thing that she would do is, during team meetings, she would interrupt him, she would challenge his ideas openly, without any kind of constructive feedback, and she really tried to diminish his authority, question his decisions. She was just like like peck, peck, peck, oh gosh. And it just got worse. Right After the announcement she really started to withdraw. She became less collaborative, she avoided participating in things like team activities and dinners, and then her performance started to decline. She kind of got this effort attitude and really disengaged in work.
Speaker 2:The other thing is, you know, her behavior began to affect the team morale, because you know what, when you have someone like on the team, that's just pissed, and there were every interaction, every way that they're showing up is just oh yeah, it's just exhausting, it's exhausting, it's like it's kind of like a cancer on the team, right, her constant negativity and the gossip created a really divisive atmosphere and other team members started to feel honestly uncomfortable, anxious, and even new employees could sense that there was some sort of divide which just sucks. I mean, that's just. You know. I'm not saying you need to be family at work by any means, but when you feel the tension. It's like okay, mom and dad got divorced and this sucks.
Speaker 1:I don't like it, yeah, and you're like life's hard enough, can we just not?
Speaker 2:A thousand percent, but here's the here's the issue. Human resources started getting several complaints about Lisa and now they had to do something about it. Yeah, so we're going to share more about the outcome of this story, about what happened to Lisa, what happened to Tom, but first we want to hear from you Is this a situation that you think is common?
Speaker 1:want to hear from you. Is this a situation that you think is common? Oh, I think it is.
Speaker 2:Do you I do? What do others think? Yeah, curious. Anyone want to come up and talk about it? And while we're seeing if anyone wants to come up, I know we're at the half hour mark. I'm Francesca.
Speaker 2:I'm here with Mel from the Work Friends podcast. We're talking about envy at work. We just got through talking about the spectrum of envy, from mild jealousy to toxic competitiveness, leading up to resentment and then sabotage. And now I'm talking about a real life story that one of our listeners wrote into. All right, well, there's the story, but I want to talk about here's the deal.
Speaker 2:What do you do if you find yourself in one of those situations? Right, what do you do if you find yourself the center of envy? You're so envious. What do you do at any level of this spectrum? What do you do if you're the victim of the sin? And then, what do you do if you might be a bystander as well? Listen, this stuff all happens on a spectrum and we know that envy can be caused by a variety of different factors unequal recognition, perceived favoritism, competitive work environments, you name it. But what the hell do you do? We know this is natural. What do you do if you move up the spectrum. So let's talk about it and if any point in time you want to come up, just raise your hand. Mel, I'll ask you to make sure that we're doing that.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's say you find yourself on the low end of the spectrum mild jealousy. This is the one that's going to be most common. We know 44% of people feel this every week, this mild jealousy around colleagues. Listen again, this is a great time If you were this sinner. If you're feeling mild jealousy, know that it's normal. But this is also a great time to notice what you're feeling and to start focusing on your own strengths. Smell said, comparison is the thief of joy, and we are all take this from someone who's in their forties we are all running our own damn race, okay, so just, it's a good time to know that we're all running our own race. And what do you have going on? Great time to reflect on that. And if you're the victim of someone's mild jealousy I'm sure we've all felt that for a moment where you're like huh, that was odd or that feels off.
Speaker 2:That comment was awkward. Don't react, you know. Continue to perform your tasks well if you're in that environment of work competently and knowing this. This isn't about you. You know, if you're getting a sense that someone's envious of you, that's about them. It is not about you. So don't change what you're doing. Listen, the risk as Mel mentioned this is low. But let me ask you, let me tell you this If you're managing a team and you're starting to see some percolations of jealousy happening, this is where you want to kind of monitor for any kind of patterns in people, in teams, in work, so it doesn't become a deeper issue. Nip it in the bud here. So mild jealousy, just let's be aware, let's notice, let's not overly react.
Speaker 2:If you find yourself in the medium space ie that toxic competition it's time to do a pretty massive gut check here. This stage seems like it might be innocent enough, because we all love the macho movies where it's like ABC always be closing coffees for closers, all this shit. But listen, that kind of toxic environment is not without impact. If you are the center here, you know what. Channel that competitive energy into improving your own performance. Okay, that's, that's our big advice here.
Speaker 2:This may be time where you want to also think about how do you turn up the volume on collaboration mode or team mode, or even look for ways to collaborate so you can turn down the volume on the toxic competitiveness. The other thing is to do some pretty massive self-reflection, and here's the way that you do this. What's the difference? Are you competing healthily Is that a word Healthily? Maybe it is now healthily. It is now yeah, it is now Hashtag. No, it's not. Are you competing in a healthy way or are you competing in a toxic way? And here are some ways that you can know that right Is the focus on achieving your goals or beating somebody else? Do you find that there's a mutual respect or you want to see this person fail? Is there collaboration or are you doing things in a silo? Ask yourself those questions.
Speaker 2:If you're finding you're pulling into the toxic, now's the time to pull more into the healthy. If you can, if you are the victim here, treat your competition potentially as an opportunity for growth. You might want to lean into the collaboration element of the work. And I will tell you if you're feeling like it's getting a little too much, it's starting to impact your mental health, it's starting to impact the work. Now's the time to start talking to a supervisor. Yeah, agree, yeah, listen. Risk here moves up the chain, because it can be very hard to suss out healthy competition from toxic competition. And we see this a lot, like I mentioned, especially in teams that aren't clear about performance metrics. They don't have fair recognition systems. There's not a culture of collaboration. There's not a culture of collaboration. It's when everyone's trying to figure out the rules of the game. It can turn into this by any means necessary environment real quickly. Yeah, mel, you know this right. Have you seen leader? What have you seen leaders do to kind of mitigate the unhealthy competition?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I've seen, honestly, some of the favorite leaders that I've had has stepped in when they noticed this type of behavior happening and have just essentially addressed it with the whole team. Like I do not stand for this, we are one team and they really press that messaging. They also didn't stand for sort of the behind the scenes kind of BS that happens with like let me talk to the leader and try to get my ideas in there, but not making it a group effort. They really shut that shit down so fast and just set the tone that this is not how we work together and that was part of the culture that they built. So it has to really be embedded into how we work and it comes from the top, it comes from the top.
Speaker 2:If you're leading a team here, folks, this is not the place to bury your head in the sand.
Speaker 1:No, no, you know who did this really well, recently.
Speaker 2:Me, apologies, it was me right?
Speaker 1:Yes, of course you, but sorry for anyone who's going to judge me for this or maybe you'll love me after this but I just binged Owning Manhattan on Netflix and the real estate guy that runs that whole thing he just did a whole. There's like a masterclass and how to address this and one of his episodes due to one of his real estate agents just completely talking shit about everyone that they work with and he was just like absolutely not. I don't stand for this and if it continues, you don't work here anymore and that's how you address it. So highly recommend for anyone who hasn't watched it have you watched that, francesca? It's really good.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I have not. I am not yet in the market for a $20 million condo.
Speaker 1:Neither am I, but I can dream.
Speaker 2:All right, you can dream, yeah, and get a good education.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was excellent.
Speaker 2:It was excellent. There you go. There you go. There you go. All right, let's move up the spectrum. We talked about mild jealousy, toxic competitiveness. Now we're in resentment.
Speaker 2:You are straight up feeling resentment at work. Right, listen, if you're the center, really, really reflect on your emotions here. This is when honestly not the corporate advice here, but this might also be where you want to start thinking about getting some therapy as well. As why are you feeling such deep resentment? Are there specific triggers or situations that can provoke these feelings? I will tell you from a HR side. You really want to beware of having feelings where you're unhappy when others succeed. You're constantly comparing yourself to colleagues. You're experiencing a desire to see others fail. You're gossiping. You're constantly comparing yourself to colleagues. You're experiencing a desire to see others fail. You're gossiping. You're undermining other people's achievements. Bad Naughty, no, don't do it. Don't do it Like. If you find yourself feeling this, I will tell you you. It's not hard to get here, but this is a place where you really want to be like okay, I need to check myself before I wreck myself.
Speaker 1:This is, this is a place where you want to do that and it's the frequency like the frequency of those feelings really increases here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Don't be afraid to seek support in whatever. If it's a mentor, a coach, a therapist, I think you can. Also, if you need to have a conversation, if this resentment is stemming from some sort of something you haven't sussed out with somebody, think about how you can have a constructive, constructive, keyword conversation. And the other thing I want to let you know here, though, friends, is, if you are the sinner is, know that others are seeing this behavior. You might think that they're not. They are. They're not only seeing it. Most likely they're feeling it as well, it's like oozing off.
Speaker 1:You could tell it like oozes off of someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's no bueno. I've sat in many, many, you know, calibration sessions where we're talking about talent, and this is one of the things that, again, will kill somebody's career really, really quickly is if they're not collaborative, if they feel like they're really becoming this cancer on his team, that they're showing up in a way that's not positive for the team. It's a career killer right here. If you're the victim, I will tell you someone. I've been the victim, I know you have as well.
Speaker 2:Here's the deal you want to stay professional. This is not a time where you retaliate in kind. Do not start engaging in gossip or negative talk. Don't do it. Stay professional. This might be the time, too, where you want to start protecting your work, where you want to start documenting incidences as well in case this escalates, and for you to seek support as well.
Speaker 2:Right, this is not an easy thing to go through, where someone's constantly resenting you. So do what you need to do to get, to stay healthy, right and to stay productive. I will tell you the other thing, too the risk here is really high, because a culture of resentment fosters negativity, low morale, low engagement and, from a business perspective not that it's all about this. But, man, that costs organizations a massive amount of money, and so that's why they do not want to see this type of behavior. Right, you're putting yourself at risk from a career perspective, you're putting your organization at risk and, most importantly, you're putting people's mental health at risk, which is not cool, not good, not good, all right. Last one sabotage. Okay, before I go, did anyone else see that the Beastie Boys are suing Chili's for them using sabotage?
Speaker 1:Oh really. I know I'm aging myself.
Speaker 2:I thought that was so funny. I'm like I never thought I would see Chili's and the Beastie Boys in the same headline. But there you go Sabotage yeah, if you know the song, you know the song. There you go.
Speaker 2:All right, if you don't check yourself in resentment, it's going to lead into sabotage. We see it. If you're the sinner here, you're probably going to need a lawyer and you need to seek professional help. If you're doing things that are illegal because your envy is so unchecked, this is a point where you're putting yourself absolutely at legal risk, not to mention, you're probably going to get canned. If you're the victim here absolutely I would be. You should be already. But just documenting the hell out of what you're experiencing, what you're seeing, if you see it, report it to management and secure all of your work as well. Mel gave the example for Reddit. Again, you want to make sure that you're protecting yourself if you're the victim. Quick note for everybody here okay, Most organizations have things like a zero tolerance policy. They do regular audits as well around digital security, physical assets. They also have things like whistleblower protections as well. Why am I mentioning this, mel? Why do you think I'm mentioning this?
Speaker 1:So folks know what to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, if you see this, even if you're not the sinner or the victim, if you see it, know that, report it, report it, right? I mean, be a friend, report it. And I say be a friend most likely to the victim here, because they might not feel like they can, for whatever reason. Um, report it, report it, there are protections in place for you. Report it. This isn't good for anybody, right? But let's get back to that situation with Lisa, because we left Lisa where she was just being a total resenter, if you will, with Tom. It's a cancer on the team and now we know that she had multiple complaints about her behavior to HR. Here's the outcome of the story right to HR. Here's the outcome of the story right.
Speaker 2:Hr held private conversations with both Lisa and Tom to understand their perspectives. By the way, when HR has to do an investigation, that's what they're going to do. They're going to get all the sides of the story to understand what actually happened. It is an investigation. Lisa talked about her feelings of feeling like there's unfair treatment going on and frustration about not getting promoted. Tom talked about her feelings of feeling like there's unfair treatment going on and frustration about not getting promoted. Tom talked about his challenges, with Lisa undermining him at every take, and HR ultimately decided to offer Lisa a choice between facing disciplinary action or attending a professional development course on things like emotional intelligence, conflict resolution and leadership skills. Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like not having. That's a strong message, Like take this or your next step is you're out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's you know. I have found too that there are some organizations where, if it's that damaging, that's grounds.
Speaker 1:No tolerance policy for that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when an organization is giving you a second chance on this and even giving you professional development to help with that, she, that's great and apparently she took it. After completing the program, she apologized to Tom and they're trying to make a conscious effort to repair the relationship. But listen, there are really no winners in this situation. Quite honestly, because Lisa's brand was damaged, tom had to deal with just yeah, wasn't he new to the org and he just got promoted?
Speaker 1:That's your experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, you ever have those experiences at work where you're like I'm just trying to do my job. Why are you such a hater? Yeah, thousand percent, yeah, yeah. So we'd love to hear from a few folks if you have any thoughts on the Tom or Lisa situation or if you have any questions for us. I know a few of them came in while we were colleague seems kind of envious about it.
Speaker 1:And now they're making passive, aggressive comments to me constantly about my work in front of other people in meetings. How can I address the situation without escalating the tension? So how would we address that situation? How do they address it without escalating it?
Speaker 2:Here's the deal. I think people need to keep themselves professional right. When you're, when you are feeling like someone is making passive, aggressive comments at you that sort of thing too this is where I wouldn't want someone to retaliate in kind at all. I think the thing is is like you don't know why someone's making those comments, but it's not necessarily about your particular performance right or something that you might be doing. So this is the place where I would say keep it cool, keep it professional. If you feel like you can have a constructive conversation with that person too, to talk about why they might be behaving that way and ask them like when you, when you do this is the way it impacts me. Is that your intent? That sort of thing? All all fair things here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I think we have another one Someone wrote in. I believe a little bit of envy in the workplace is actually beneficial because it pushes people to perform better. Is it really necessary to address this behavior since it helps drive competition and productivity? I'm going to go with. The stats show it doesn't help drive productivity, at least when it's not healthy competition. So when you're in competition, that is building camaraderie. I've been on projects like that right, where everyone gets to present their own proposal and the best one wins and everyone gets to vote on it. That's a kind of healthy competition where all of you get an opportunity to present right. It's equitable, it's team building, it's collaborative. But when it starts to be more individual based I would say that's where we've seen that then studies show when it's focused on the individual, that's toxic competitiveness and it actually doesn't help with productivity. Yeah, or just the joy of working with people Right Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, I know we're we're at the end of time here and truly thanks for all the folks who contributed to today's conversation. This is a large discussion and, friends, we really appreciate you joining us today and we want to keep the conversation going. So here's how you can do that. You can check us out on your work friends uh podcast on every platform out there. So, whichever one you choose, uh, we post new episodes getting you through all this work shit every week and if you like what you hear, you can share with a work friend or two, please, uh. You can join us on your work friends group on LinkedIn If you prefer. You can also find us on Instagram and if you have a topic that you want to share with us, you can shoot us a note at friend at your work friendscom. And then, finally, francesca, what's next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll be back here in two weeks, same time, same place. We're talking about greed on July 31st, so join us. Hey, that's my Nana's birthday. Yeah, on July 31st, so join us. Hey, that's my.
Speaker 1:Nana's birthday. Yeah, hey, we love Nana, we love.
Speaker 2:Nana, perfect, all right, friends. Thanks for your time. We hope you have a good day, bye, bye.