The Truth, The Bible and Everything between
Understanding Salvation: Exploring the Path to Eternal Life Through Faith in Jesus
We then take a deeper look at how salvation is perceived in Presbyterian and Roman Catholic traditions. With Presbyterians focusing on grace alone and Roman Catholics integrating sacraments like baptism and penance, the contrasts are intriguing. Supported by passages like Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23, we discuss humanity's inherent sinful nature and the struggle to live righteously. Using relatable analogies, we encourage listeners to reflect on their personal beliefs and the unique paths their traditions teach.
The episode crescendos with heartfelt personal testimonies that illuminate the journey of repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ. We highlight salvation as a divine gift, not earned by good deeds but granted through grace. By sharing key Bible scriptures and powerful stories, we emphasize the importance of making a conscious decision to follow Jesus. The episode concludes with an invitation to accept Christ, offering a prayer for salvation and renewal. Join us for this transformative discussion that underscores the essence of Christian faith and the assurance of salvation amidst our struggles.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions that you'd like to share with us, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at thebibleandtheologypodcast@gmail.com. We are always happy to hear from you!
We then take a deeper look at how salvation is perceived in Presbyterian and Roman Catholic traditions. With Presbyterians focusing on grace alone and Roman Catholics integrating sacraments like baptism and penance, the contrasts are intriguing. Supported by passages like Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23, we discuss humanity's inherent sinful nature and the struggle to live righteously. Using relatable analogies, we encourage listeners to reflect on their personal beliefs and the unique paths their traditions teach.
The episode crescendos with heartfelt personal testimonies that illuminate the journey of repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ. We highlight salvation as a divine gift, not earned by good deeds but granted through grace. By sharing key Bible scriptures and powerful stories, we emphasize the importance of making a conscious decision to follow Jesus. The episode concludes with an invitation to accept Christ, offering a prayer for salvation and renewal. Join us for this transformative discussion that underscores the essence of Christian faith and the assurance of salvation amidst our struggles.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions that you'd like to share with us, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at thebibleandtheologypodcast@gmail.com. We are always happy to hear from you!
Welcome to the Truth, the Bible and Everything in Between with your host, me Michael, and Daniel Patins.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, friends, for tuning into our podcast. Today is going to be an exciting day. We're going to talk all about salvation, the thing most relevant to you as a Christian. So, my friends, what we did today, we're going to split up our podcast into three distinct segments. The first segment we're going to talk about what is salvation and why you actually need it as a Christian. The second section we're going to talk about how you can actually get salvation. The second section we're going to talk about how you can actually get salvation. And the third segment we're going to discuss whether or not you can actually lose your salvation. And, my friends, as always, please do not forget to like and subscribe. We really appreciate your feedback and also all of your support. So, dan, let's get started. Yes, first question, let's quickly see what is salvation. Okay, what do you think salvation is, dan? Let's get started. Yes, first question let's quickly see what is salvation. Okay, what do you think salvation is, dan?
Speaker 2:Well, to consider what salvation is, first of all you need to think of where you're headed after you die, and if you do believe in life after death, then that's where salvation will come into it. And then the concept of heaven and hell, which would relate to that.
Speaker 1:It's a thing, man, and you know that the Bible is full of different explanations of exactly why we actually need salvation as well. You know like, if I think about the concept of salvation, I always think about you know, like you are headed to this very bad place and salvation is your ticket out of there. You know, I'm going to be very honest. When I was a young Christian, the reason why I actually gave my heart to the Lord originally was because I didn't want to go to hell, and the thing is, salvation is definitely my way there. So let's quickly see. So the word salvation is actually quite complicated in the christian world because different denominations in our christian society have different views on it.
Speaker 1:Um, I found a few different extracts here. Um, I'll quickly read it and maybe you can just give your thoughts down. Yeah, let's quickly see the anglic. Okay, so they literally quoted this in one of their 39 articles of the Anglican Communion. It's like their official guidebook that they almost live by. So let's see, we are accounted righteous before God only for the merit of our Lord Savior, jesus Christ, by faith, and not for our own works or deservings, wherefore that we are justified by faith only is a most wholesome doctrine Right, think about that, dan.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, you know, you could sort of take the verse, for you are saved by grace and not by works, and that by faith. It is the gift of God. Sounds very similar to what they're saying, only they've sort of put our and we into it. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's sensible enough In the Assemblies of God.
Speaker 1:I literally found this on their actual website Salvation is received through repentance. Wow, it carries a lot of weight Towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ, by the washing of, regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit being justified by grace. Through faith, man becomes an heir of God according to the hope of eternal life. What do you think, Dan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think that's good enough and I think there's probably quite a few verses which are in there. But you know, you've sort of made it into something people can understand perfect and the baptist.
Speaker 1:Let's see, salvation involves the redemption of the whole man and is offered freely to all who accept jesus christ as lordour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption. For the believer, there is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Wow, that's very significant. Do you have any thoughts?
Speaker 2:Dan, I actually. I like that one. It says for there is no other name under heaven by which men may be saved, which is the, you know, the name of Jesus. But yeah, I mean I find that one nice, but you know.
Speaker 1:And you know, dan, sometimes it's a sad truth, but a lot of modern day Christians they almost have an opinion on like there's many different ways to climb the mountain. I've met a few people like in my walk with the lord and they very much of the opinion is that you can still eventually reach god, no matter what, what side you climb up the mountain. But that, unfortunately, is not the truth. My brothers and sisters, you know, like um, there's only one way, yeah, and his name is Jesus.
Speaker 2:Well, jesus said that. He said enter in through the narrow gate, for, you know, the gate which leads to life is narrow, and he said that he was the way, and he said that anyone who goes in by another way is a thief or a robber.
Speaker 1:So one way, and that's the only way.
Speaker 2:hey, one way, or the highway Now just to put this into something for everybody if you don't believe in Jesus, well then, how does that work for you and what is the truth?
Speaker 1:I think it makes a very clear cut. But there are lots of other questions that actually come with that, like people who've never received the word of the Lord or people that never actually had the gospel ministered to them. I'm sure we'll cover that in a future podcast. It sounds like there's a lot of content there.
Speaker 2:If I wanted to be sly, I would say that some of these people with their mountains are actually putting in a very convenient sort of mountain which will work for them you know.
Speaker 1:But um, yeah, and that's the thing sometimes with the modern day church there is a little bit of a overlap with modern day feel good principles and you know happy that a happy theology as opposed to a good, old-fashioned flagellation.
Speaker 1:You know exactly, but look different opinions. But in this podcast we're always going to try our best to give you guys what the bible says, because that, ultimately, should always be our guidebook. Okay, let's quickly see onto the lutherans. They said that faith in christ is the only way for men to obtain personal reconciliation with god. That is, forgiveness of sins. Wow, it actually sums it up really nicely. And let me see here the, the Methodists. We are counted righteous before God only for the merit of our Lord Savior, jesus Christ, by faith, and not for our own works or deservings, wherefore that we are justified by faith only. Okay, wow, there's a lot to unpack there. What do you think, dan?
Speaker 2:I'd say I'm quite happy with all of those, but then for the person listening, I would think, well, when you hear that, how does that apply to you? I mean, what are you and you know sort of, where are you and how does that work?
Speaker 1:Look, there is that whole methodology where people always think that you can get into God's good gracious by doing works or doing things for his kingdom, and it can sometimes be quite a complicated thing to unpack, and we're actually going to specifically focus on that too in the segment, in segment number two. But before we move on, dan, what do you think, just in a very simple way, do you think that your deeds have any effects or do you think your? Just in a very simple way, do you think that your deeds have any effects or do you think your deeds affect your salvation in any way?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good question. You see, I've thought about this and the fact is, yes, my deeds do, but not in the predictable way that everyone would think, because my deeds hit me pretty hard, and so my deeds are what actually lead me to believe that I need salvation, as opposed to thinking, oh well, that that's the thing which is going to get me off and get me a ticket and um. Well, you know that the real reason that I actually need salvation is because I understand very much what I did, you know, and how it works in the end result.
Speaker 1:Wow. And you know, all of that originates from one point, and it's our hearts. You know like sometimes I think we as people, we all have a tendency to do bad things, and it's also in the Bible. So a few scriptures we're going to go through in a moment, but this week you move on. Presbyterian Church. What do they say? Presbyterians believe God has offered us salvation because of God's loving nature. It is not a right or a privilege to be earned or by being good enough. We are all saved solely by the grace of God. Out of the greatest possible love and compassion, god reached out to us, redeemed us through Jesus Christ, the only one who was ever without sin. Okay, wow, that's quite a good summary of the gospel, don't you think, dan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they're all reasonable. Gospel, don't you think, dan? I think they're all reasonable. The only thing I would say for all of them is I would want perhaps just a few simple statements that would sort of relate to anyone. But yeah, I guess if it's going to go on your website or on your handbook, then that is useful.
Speaker 1:And then finally, the Roman Catholic Church Salvation is received. And then finally, the roman catholic church salvation is received by virtue of the sacrament of baptism. It may be lost by mortal sin and regained by penance. There's a lot there, right I? I think maybe in sections two and three we can explore this a little bit deeper because, like I said there's lots of people with opposing views, and remember, friends, you can have your own opinion on this.
Speaker 1:There are certain things that we should always stick by. It's clearly highlighted for us in the Bible, but if you do have your own opinion on it, we would love to hear it as well.
Speaker 2:It is possible that someone may have an opposing opinion. Of course, of course.
Speaker 1:And then, just to back up everything that we just talked about, you know, like the concept of salvation is is quite difficult to explain. Without really delving into the concept of sin, we all, as christians, need salvation because we are all damned. And why are we damned?
Speaker 2:damned. I was going to say our dam's the best dam dam. That's what we say in Australia. Well, the whole problem of sin and how it relates to you is what you did and where that will get you in the long run.
Speaker 2:Is there anything wrong? Do you have to acknowledge it, or is it just a carnival? Is it anything wrong? Do you have to acknowledge it, you know? Or is it just a carnival? Is it a circus, and you know? You can just do what you like and there'll be no consequence? How does that work for people?
Speaker 1:And it's difficult because you know like, inherently in all of us, we have a desire to sin. You know, nobody teaches a baby to cry for attention when they actually don't need attention. You know what I mean. When a baby is born and they are lying there even though they're not hungry. Babies are proven and there's lots of scientific studies to back this up. Babies are proven to actually lie. They cry the exact same way they would when they want food, even though they don't want to to get attention. And you know I'm not saying all babies are sinners.
Speaker 2:You know, offended a group of mothers at this point.
Speaker 1:We, we love children, but you know we are examining how babies work and you know their intention and and that's the thing that it starts with babies, man, it starts with all of us when we're young and you know like sometimes it grows into a thing that can be quite problematic he doesn't mean a baby.
Speaker 1:He's talking about the sin, which can be problematic you know, romans 3, verse 10, actually says, as it is written, there is none righteous, not one. And my friends, you know, like the bible, there's so much significance to this specific bible scripture. You know, you probably know someone that's a good guy, or you know a lady that's a good lady, you know. But the thing is those people, all of us, have desires and things that are inherently not good, and you know, the Bible obviously dictates what is right and what is wrong for all of us as Christians, but all of us have this natural tendency to sin and do bad things. So, even if you know somebody that's good, there's a chance that they also maybe, maybe they're harboring a secret or something bad they also did in their past.
Speaker 2:See, I think I think this is a fine, a fine point to sort of begin with, because if you go out into the world and I'm referring to everyone now, I don't, I don't care if you're a Christian or a saint or if you know you're a, whatever you call it you know the dirtiest sinner around and you're proud of it. The fact is that if you go out into the world and actually see what people do and how it works, you, you will get the result and it, you know it will be sin, and you can see what people do and what they get. So, yeah, I mean I'd be happy to sort of think about that and see if you are righteous.
Speaker 1:And you know, romans 3, verse 23, says For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. You know, my friends, the one time I heard this beautiful image, it was actually a pastor talking about his little daughter. They always used to go to a place where they it's like a family farm that they would go and visit and his daughter would always comment on how white the sheep look compared to the green hills behind them. And he said, every year they would go, look at these sheep and they would see, wow, they're so beautiful, they're so white, but once a year it would actually snow in that region. And then, if you would look at the hills now covered in snow, those exact sheep are actually not that white anymore.
Speaker 1:And you know, my friends, this, this image, carries a lot in my own mind. I think about this often. You know, like, friends, this, this image carries a lot in my own mind. I I think about this often. You know like, sometimes we, we think of ourselves as good people, but the truth is, you know like, we have all fallen short of the glory of god. Compared to the world, maybe, even as christians, you might seem like a good person, but compared to god, my friends, we're unfortunately all dirty, yeah, but there's good news. This is not the end. You don't have to stay like that. There's salvation, and that's the whole point why we're actually talking about this today.
Speaker 2:And we're not going off the deep end. But the thing is that you may have done many good things. You may have done many righteous things. You may have done many righteous things. You know. Help to grandma across the street.
Speaker 2:Now, to give you the short version, it says love. You know that there's nothing wrong with love. But at the same time, I think I would go to the same farm. I wouldn't even waste time looking at the sheep. I'd take a look at the bulls because they're full of it. You know, I mean they. You know I mean they don't even need snow. But as far as it goes like, let me just give you a few examples. There's several wars on at the moment. There's whole countries which are just in a terrible state with poverty degradation, and you can trace that back to corruption in the government, and you know just a few key people trying to get something for themselves being crooked. That that can affect like thousands of people dying. And I'm I'm being clever here, I'm not telling you which side I'm on, but look at the grand level where there are women and children starving, you know, getting shot, sleeping in the cold, and ask yourself then is there such a thing, as you know right and wrong or sin and and look at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I know this. This thing is quite clear cut. You know like all of us have sin on us and you know like it all originated in in the garden. You know the beginning of of the bible, um, in the story of in the book of gen. You know the moment that Adam and Eve chose to not obey God. They entered into a covenant not with God but with sin, and you know that almost completely corrupted everything that the human race was supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Here's another Bible scripture in Romans 5, verse 12. Wherefore, as by one, man's, sin entered into the world and death by sin, and so death passed up upon all men, for all have sinned. You know, my friend, sometimes we carry the sins of our fathers and the people before them and you know, at the end of the day, we are all deemed as sinners. But there is something that happened you know like, and and the reason why we actually need to know about this is to know that we were actually destined to not go to heaven, my friends. We were actually destined to go to hell one day.
Speaker 1:You know, like the bible says here, romans 6, verse 23, for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life through jesus christ, our lord. You, you know like we spoke a little bit about salvation and you know, my friends, we were all heading to a place that was not that good. We were destined for death and never ending death, but through Jesus we can experience the joy of salvation. So, my friends, to answer the question what is salvation, and OK, what is salvation, and okay, what is salvation? Salvation is you being saved from eternal death.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I would want to be shrewd on this point, because sin is actually something which is very sly and deceitful. So all of you people out there who think that you're perfect and think that you know, well, just have a look at yourself and see what's happening. You know. Do you ever get it wrong? Do you ever despise someone? You know, or you know how does it actually work? Because it is something which is very cruel.
Speaker 2:And I think the first thing that I would say, you know, to those who would say well, there's no sin, you're just making us feel bad, go to the prisons, see how it works. There are people there who've cut up babies. Why? Why would they do that if everybody's innocent? There's on so many levels? Did you go into the bus, you know, and just think, oh, you know these idiots, they're in my way and would you treat yourself that way? I mean it's, it's quite a subtle thing where and it does say that the devil was the subtlest out of all the creatures who is a deceiver? He can't deceive you if he's telling you something obvious that you know. So you know when you're thinking of this question of sin, it's not just a silly thing where we've come along without our sin loose now and we're just trying to hang everyone with it and make it up.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And look, this carries weight and it can sometimes be something difficult to bear. I remember, like I mentioned the first time I actually I grew up in a Christian household but I remember the day that I gave my heart to the Lord. It was actually out of fear of what is to come next. That was my original intention, but something beautiful started to happen the moment I became a christian. My fear started to change into love, love for the lord. But, my friends, this does not just happen overnight. You know, these things can sometimes take years, but you have to start at a starting point. It comes down to a decision. So before we move on, I just want to finish off with one final Bible scripture.
Speaker 2:Can I just add to that that I was saved in almost the exact way and I didn't believe in Jesus. But when I was in a moment of great misery, you know, and I'd done something wrong, of great misery, you know, and I'd done something wrong, you know, very, very bad to get myself into a state of terror I felt that I was. That something made me feel better and I could tell that was Jesus and that's something I couldn't explain, but, similar to Michael, I actually felt reassurance, something I couldn't explain, but, similar to Michael, I actually felt reassurance and um, yeah, that was um, you know that it's just.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's quite interesting that that happened it's a thing, man, and and, and it's really like our desire to, to also hear about all of you, how you experience the Lord. You know, friends, sometimes it's really just so good to share your testimony with the people around you. You never know what effect your testimony can have on the people around you, so if you have a story you would also like to share, please send us a message. We would love to hear from you, my friends and like.
Speaker 2:I said this is something to rock and throw it hard.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, my friends, this quick. You see, this is the final scripture. I'm gonna just end the segment one off. For us, john free, verse 16 for god so loved the world that he gave his only one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Now, dan, that takes us into our second segment. How do I get salvation? What do you think, dan? How do you get some? How can you get salvation?
Speaker 2:well, I think it's quite interesting because, just on the topic um, and you know, we've gone right in at the deep end. It's pretty heavy, but it seems that we've both had a similar experience where we got ourselves into trouble and there was only one way out, and that wasn't something that we did for ourselves. I never, when I became a Christian, I didn't actually go looking and think, oh well, there's the Bible, there's Buddha, you know which one's? For me, this was something where I was actually. Something came to me which was, you know, it was obviously from Jesus.
Speaker 2:I didn't actually go out and figure it out myself and I couldn't save myself, I couldn't make myself better. That tells us something, because we've both had a similar experience and basically I would say that God saved us, you know, and came through all of our crap and yeah, so that's and number two. It actually worked because nothing else could deliver us. If I went into details and told you how I was, there wasn't anything which I could actually do, you know, to get out you see, and it's only the Lord that can come and save us.
Speaker 1:And, and, my friends, that's where the answer lies. You know, like, how did you get salvation? The answer is only through Jesus. You know, like? And and look people, people might have different opinions on this. The bible says and this is also very clear, jesus said himself I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me and my friends. It's sometimes a difficult pull to swallow, for all of you maybe been hurt by the church, or maybe you have a not so nice disposition towards Christianity.
Speaker 2:There's probably someone despising us, right now when they hear that, and you know I fully appreciate it.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing, my friends. You know, like Jesus, he died for us with love. You know like. There's another Bible scripture and this really just shocked me Romans 5, verse 8. But God demonstrates his own love for us While we were still sinners. Christ died for us and, my friends, this is also where the answer lies. Christ didn't die for us because we're good people. No, while we were still sinners, my friends, we did not deserve anything, but yet god still chose to send his only son for us. And because of that, my friends, because of that, we can have salvation.
Speaker 1:Now the question is, in a practical sense, how do you actually get salvation? Yeah, my friends, it comes down to a simple prayer that you can pray. You have to accept Jesus in your heart, you need to accept that everything that he has done for you was done for you, and you also need to understand that your sins have actually been absorbed through His blood and His blood alone. And, my friends, there are different ways you can do it. What do you think, dan? I wouldn't say what's the easiest way to do it. I wouldn't say it's an easy way, what's?
Speaker 2:the shortcut.
Speaker 1:What's the shortcut for all of our listeners? That never maybe, given their hearts to the Lord? That actually want to do it today.
Speaker 2:I'd like to give an intelligent perspective on this, because we have come in very heavy and there's a purpose for that, because it's called the truth and nobody wants to admit they're a sinner. Everyone wants to think I'm the squeaky clean one and the man next to me is making a mistake. But ask yourself for the things that we've mentioned. Should there be love, you know? Should there be righteousness? Should there be justice? Look around the world, because what Michael's talking about that's where it comes from. It comes from God, you know.
Speaker 2:And, um, so what? What is the quickest way to actually, you know, to receive your salvation? Well, I would say that it is, uh, it's the Holy spirit and it's what you actually you need to realize that Jesus is the truth. And if you don't, if you don't believe in that, then it's always going to be something which you don't need, or you know that that doesn't, doesn't relate to you and it's in, it's in the what would you call it, the context of eternity. So it's not just a. Well, yeah, how do I feel? Or what do I think about Jesus, you know?
Speaker 1:You know, dan, I'm going to bring up that excerpt that I actually read from the Assemblies of God again, because I feel it really. It summarizes like a very clear path to salvation. It actually says Salvation is received through repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit being justified by grace. Through faith, man becomes an heir of God according to the hope of eternal life. You know, know, my friends, it all comes down to a conscious decision, a decision that you have to make, that you accept the Lord in your heart. And, my friends, what we're going to do at the end of today's podcast, we're actually going to pray the sinner's prayer with whoever wants to join us. If you've never given your heart to the Lord, you have an opportunity, my friends. You can actually do that with us.
Speaker 2:And I just like to say you know, to qualify some of these grand statements one of the best things that you can ever do is to be sorry, and that's no matter who you are, even if you don't believe in Jesus. Just have a bit of common sense and see how it works when you're sorry, and if you're arrogant, well, just remember, you'll always think that you can't stand the person next to you imagine if he was sorry, you might actually like him. That's how it works you know, there's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would just think of all the problems we've described. Imagine the wars, two sides saying sorry, and now ask yourself is there such a thing as righteousness or love? How does it work?
Speaker 1:I believe it's like one of those things that can only be obtained through the Lord. You know, like and again, my friend, my friends, repentance is key. I'm reminded of a beautiful Bible scripture here, in 2 Corinthians 5, verse 17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away, behold, a new has come. My friends, I know sometimes this is a lot easier said than done. You know, when we give our hearts to the Lord, we become new creatures. Now the big question is can a creature go back to the things that they were eating before they changed? No, I don't want to compare us to pigs, you know, but like, if I can use a pig as an example now, For those of you who are pig farmers just block your ears.
Speaker 1:If you were a pig before, you ate slop every single day. My friends, the day that you give your heart to Jesus, you cannot go back and eat the exact same slop. No, you're a new creature in Christ and I know what I'm saying is easier said than done. My friends, we will always have that lurking temptation, lurking sin, in our lives, even if you become a Christian. But the difference is, if you know something is bad for you, what do you need to do? You need to start staying away from it. And that's the thing with repentance. Repentance changes your life.
Speaker 2:I should also point out that this is where, in a lot of these, the things we're having. In the beginning they mentioned the word grace. You know the Presbyterians, the assemblies of God. This is where grace actually comes into it, because once you do have people who acknowledge that there is such a thing as right and wrong, for example, or the possibility of sin, and if you want these two armies to apologize and shake hands, they have to admit that they're wrong. You know, if you want people to say sorry, no one's going to stop when they still think that they're wrong. You know, if you want people to say sorry, no one's going to stop when they still think that they're right and there's no sin. That's where you're going to need grace, because otherwise you're. You know you're cutting your own throat now instead of blaming the other person and and dan, what you're saying carries so so much weight.
Speaker 1:You know why? Because I've met a lot of Christians in their lives. They feel everything that they do they need to do because they need to earn salvation. Salvation is not something to be earned, my friends. Salvation is something given to us by God. Here, ephesians 2, verse 8 to 9, say for by grace, you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing. It is a gift of God, not a result of work, so that no one can boast, my friend, nothing you do can make God hate or love you more.
Speaker 2:It's not like, having recognized that there's such a thing, you now get to point your bony finger at everyone else, because that's what christians love to do and that's why people who aren't christians hate the christians, because they've got their little halo and they think right, I'm the virtuous one. Let's have a look at my neighbor. Oh he's, he's sinning, like look at that, you know. Look at you know he's ugly, like you know he's got big ears, he's definitely a sinner. And um, that you know he's ugly, like you know he's got big ears, he's definitely a sinner. And that you know. That's really not how it works. And that's, you know. When you actually have your grace, sort of come into it, it's a little bit different because that's not something which you actually give yourself.
Speaker 1:And that's also the thing, dan. You know like salvation is for all. You know, like I know there might be people that think that you know like salvation is for all. You know, like I know there might be people that that that think that you know like Christianity is a is an exclusive club. You know, but the truth is, my friends, god loves every single person on this planet.
Speaker 2:Sin did abound, grace did much more abound and, um, basically, the, you know, the whole point of talking about sin is so that you don't lie. And then, on the other hand, well, what do you do about sin? Well then you need grace. You know, if you actually recognize that there's something wrong and you are filthy, then what you need is to get rid of it, and you won't be doing that without grace, you know. So's um, look, it might be a bit hard hitting, but I think we're going, you know, straight, straight to the point. So this is how it actually works. You aren't going to to avoid what you did. You, you'll have to get there and you'll have to acknowledge god and you'll have to see that he's righteous and get rid of it.
Speaker 1:And you know, my friends, the truth of the matter is that, even though God's salvation is for all, you know like we sometimes still bear the consequences of the things that we did on earth. To give you an example if you meet somebody that stole something or someone that murdered somebody in prison, yes, this guy now met Jesus and Jesus completely forgave him of his sins. He was supposed to have death when he actually died, but because he accepted Jesus, now he will have everlasting life. But that does not mean this guy can just leave the jail. No, he still needs to sit in jail and pay for his crimes.
Speaker 1:But that's the amazing thing about the kingdom of God, my friends. It's not like that. When Jesus said saves you and sets you free. Yes, there are some consequences to what you actually did on earth, but not in God's kingdom. Jesus absolved you of your sins and everything that you've done, no matter how bad, my friends, are forgiven and you have everlasting life. The only thing you have to do is you need to make a conscious decision to follow Jesus and accept what he has done for you in your life yeah.
Speaker 2:So before you freak out, oh, don't say where you do it, you don't, don't call us. It is the first person I always think about is myself, and it doesn't come up looking good, you know. And when you think about how this applies, let's just say there's someone listening who's a murderer, and I don't know how many people that you've sort of gotten away with, you know, and sort of basically your own soul is being just despised. But this is the point where a murderer actually thinks about what they're doing and whether it's right and stops. So you see how it works. It's not just about us getting everyone making them look bad, you know, telling them that they can't get to god. It's actually what you need to to become pure and and to have something that you need, which is is life and Jesus.
Speaker 1:And it's given to you freely. It's given to you freely. It's not something you have to work for or something that you have to do, my friends, other than making a decision and asking the Lord in your life. Okay, dan, I think that brings us to our final segment. Now we know that we were all damned, but through Jesus we could have salvation. We just need to make the decision to accept him in our lives. But does that mean I can go out and sin? The big question is can salvation be lost? What do you think, dan?
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 1:I do think.
Speaker 2:So first of all, let's have a few verses. Paul said I beat my body and keep it under subjection lest, after having preached, I should myself become a castaway. So there you have the man who was responsible for writing books of the bible. He was obviously. God had saved him. He was previously a murderer and God struck him blind and made him aware. You know that he was real and that Jesus was actually Jesus. You know who did that.
Speaker 2:In, I think it's Corinthians, there's a man who's sleeping with his father's wife and Paul, basically, you know, rebukes a whole church full of people and he tells them that wrong and he says that you have not mourned about this. But you know, and he said, this man should be put out from among you so that that actually brings in the concept of being sorry. And it's in the new testament, after these people had all believed in Jesus. If you go to, I think it's Hebrews, chapter 11, that's one of the most specific where it talks about people who, after becoming Christians and after having believed, they continue to go on sinning, and it says that they have despised Jesus' blood and trampled the Son of God underfoot and they have insulted the spirit of grace, and it refers to them as dogs, referring to their own vomit, returning to their own vomit. So that's it says.
Speaker 2:After doing that, then what is actually left for them afterwards? What is actually left for them afterwards? So those are some of the things that I would consider. If you think that you're just going to do what you want to god and you, you can just get away, you know there's, there's no consequence, you're fine, you're not going to go to hell, it's an ice cream cone look, I?
Speaker 1:I think this is a very difficult concept because there are lots of valid arguments on on both sides, like a lot of people and christians that say, no, you cannot lose your salvation, once saved, always saved. Jesus forgives your past, present and future of sins. And then there are other people that, again, like I said, there's lots of biblical evidence as well, saying that, yes, there might be a point where you keep sinning. And remember, friends, god is pure, god is pure. He had to turn away from his own son when Jesus got crucified because the world's sin was on Jesus. When Jesus was on the cross, he cried out Ely, ely Lama Shabbatani. We said my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? In that moment, god couldn't even look upon Jesus because of the sin that was on him. And, my friends, that still has a lot of significance for us Because, remember, even if we are Christians and we have salvation in our hearts, the opposite might also be true.
Speaker 1:If you keep going back and if you keep sinning, what do you think is going to happen with your soul? It's really a tricky question. I actually have a Bible scripture for the other, the flip point, okay, and that's John 10, verse 28. And it says I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. And, like I said, dan, this is a concept. No man, that's easy, okay.
Speaker 2:No problem. See, that's looking Okay, no problem. See, that's looking at the other way around. Now that's looking at it as Jesus and the people that belong to him and saying, well, can the devil take them back? So that's how Jesus works and that's certainly right. But let's just think of this because you had Judas Iscariot.
Speaker 1:And what did Jesus say?
Speaker 2:about him? I don't know. Then, well, there you go, because he said you know that I have 12 of you and one of you is a devil. So Jesus knew that Judas was actually full of Satan.
Speaker 2:Another verse that I'd think about is from 1 John, and it says no one who knows him keeps on sinning. And it says here is how that we, we know him. Who whose server says that he knows him, ought also to walk even as he walked. Okay, you can't be snatched out of Jesus's hand. Are you really in his hand?
Speaker 2:You know, suppose I'm one of these guys who says yeah, I know Jesus. And let's say I run a brothel, okay, and I hope there's no brothel owners out there. If I've offended you well, too bad, all right, shut it down, you know, start another business. But if you're doing something which is is evil, and you, you are continually sinning, and you say I know jesus, according to the bible it says no one who knows him keeps on sinning. And it says whosoever knows him ought also to walk even as he walks. And it says here is how we know that we love him, when we love him and keep his commandments. So if you are doing all of these things and if you don't love Jesus. And the most basic one is it says that Jesus commanded us to love our brother. So that should make it nice and easy for everyone. And it says whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer. So let's say I mean, all right, I've targeted brothel owners, so I don't want to offend anyone else. I'm going to pick on Michael here.
Speaker 2:And let's just say Michael is secretly harboring murderous thoughts towards me, okay, and he's up to all sorts of conniving, you know, and he's doing it continually. He's not backing down at all and he says, oh yeah, but I'm in Jesus's hand. Then how would those verses relate to it?
Speaker 1:But then the question is then put the knife down, michael.
Speaker 1:You know. But but then the question is like somebody that gave their heart to Jesus, okay, and obviously say they didn't have any ill intentions and things, but they have unrepentant sin, for example, say they lied to their mother in the morning and in the afternoon they had a car accident and their life has ended Does that mean that they don't go to heaven? Like I said, this can be a very tricky concept. You know like, honestly in my heart and and I've changed my opinion over the years you know like I, I believe you know like jesus, when he forgives you, he forgives you past, present and future.
Speaker 1:But there is a point in your christianity. If you deliberately sinning, like I said in the beginning, you know like god, god is pure, my friends, you and God he cannot be close to sin Because sin is like the opposite of God and the thing is, at the end of the day, there is a point where I feel you may be going to, I wouldn't say, upset God, but there's a point where, if God had to turn away from Jesus because he had the sin of the world on Him, I think there's also a point where we're going to start. You know creating problems in our relationship with God. But, my friends, like I said, it's it's all about at the end of the day, it's about your relationship with the Lord. You know, like you're walking this road and we understand it doesn't mean when you're sinning you you're damned to hell. My friends, remember, god paid for your sins through Jesusesus and I believe you know, like, like I said, over the years my, my, my opinion on the matter has changed a little bit.
Speaker 1:Dan, do you have any thoughts you want to add to that, like?
Speaker 2:like I said, it is a very difficult concept, here we go um, so I would say that my views have changed quite a lot and I think, first of all, when I became a Christian, I was sort of very happy.
Speaker 2:But then, having actually gone out and lived life since then and encountered all the difficulties and sinned many times and I'm not necessarily talking about huge sins, I mean I've done those, but I've done small ones too and actually when you are focused on your goal, which is salvation and that's really the point of this topic then you can actually start to appreciate it and how it really works for you.
Speaker 2:So I think I've definitely reached the stage where I'm much more appreciative of safety, you know, and actually things which are sort of you know, more lovely and what would actually keep me sort of closer to God. And yeah, I guess that brings up the word of sanctification, and I mean, obviously the outside consideration is still that you don't want to go to hell, you know, and a lot of churches these days don't preach it, but for me it makes me feel good. Jesus said fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell, where their fire is quenched. Not jesus was the one who said if your eye offends, you pluck it out, and if your hand offends, you cut it off. So that's it's not something that's actually going to do you good.
Speaker 1:To avoid it, it's, it's actually the opposite and and look at the end of the day. Like I said, this can make the mind wander. You know like there's lots of things to take into consideration and lots of things to think about, you know, when we're discussing salvation. But one thing I know for sure, dan, is you know jesus came to us in love and you know he doesn't want us to perish, even though we we rightly deserve to perish. You know jesus doesn't want us to perish and he's given us an out. And you know like I I still believe. You know like, even though some people are finished with god, god is not finished with them yeah, you know, like um.
Speaker 2:So just to bring judas back to the point because he committed suicide and he had betrayed the Son of God, that's a miserable, miserable way to end. But I don't know if Jesus will save him on Judgment Day. You know, I don't know, and I'd like to think that he would. But obviously, yeah, I mean it's not for me to judge, but yeah, and look, the Bible is also quite clear on the matter.
Speaker 1:You know like, if you do accept Jesus, you know those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And you know, my friends, at the end of the day, you know like we've been given the answer to the thing that worries us all and, like I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, my original motivation to becoming a Christian was to save myself from hell. But over the years, something started happening in my heart, and the moment you become a new creature in Christ is when things start to change. You no longer want for the things that you wanted for when you were still in the world. And, yeah, you're still going to sin. I've never met someone that's free of sin. I mean, Jesus was the only person.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say that this is really when we're talking about sin. In the onset it seems terrible, but what we're saying is actually very clever. It says strong meat belongs to those who, by reason of exercise, are able to discern both good and evil. And if you have your hand on the hot plate and you can't feel anything, that's actually not good for you, you know and and.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing, my friends. You know like you're never too far gone for Jesus to change you. And I believe you know, like I said, my opinion on whether salvation can be lost or not, changed over the years. Initially I always believed that, yes, you can lose your salvation if you sin enough. But at the moment, you know like, maybe I just feel like this right now, maybe my opinion on it will change again, but I do feel, you know, like, god came for us to experience salvation. I believe that if you committed your life to Jesus before, you're not lost, my friend. Maybe sometimes we get disconnected from God at times. There might be times where things are a little bit more difficult in your life. And look, this is not saying the same If you outright renounce the Lord. It's a little bit of a different story. I'm talking about someone that just wanders off the path. You know, my friend, the shepherd already knows your name and he's going to come looking for you.
Speaker 1:You're his sheep. You know like and at the end of the day, sometimes we all wander. You know like some people backslide and you know like we we need. We need a good christian community of brothers and sisters to help us back onto the path when we struggle, and just know that jesus will not just reject you. My friends, there's always a way back to the shepherd and, and it's not always easy. I understand life. I wish life was more clear-cut and the bible was really just black and white and there's no gray areas and it was super simple to understand.
Speaker 1:I know this concept can be difficult, but just know that salvation is accessible. It's not something mutually, it's not something exclusive to a certain group of people.
Speaker 2:Right on that topic and this is much more down the line and, I guess, more mature compared to when I first became a Christian because I was saved by grace. But on the topic of all of these hairy discussions, humility is something which is good for you, and when we're talking about sin, that's just hitting a bullseye.
Speaker 2:You know, just think of what we're saying, you know, with people who are doing things, if you can admit that you're wrong and say that you're sorry, mate, that's taking two steps in the right direction, you know. And it says the Lord knows those who are his and let all those who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity. So that's another one. You know Jesus actually knows who belongs to him. And it says if you do belong to him, you should depart from iniquity.
Speaker 1:So it's not the other way around, then I think that was a really good discussion. You know, like, like I said, friends, we're not finished. If you ever have any questions or things you would like us to talk about, please just feel free to send us an email.
Speaker 2:You will find all of our links on all of our media sites, and can I just say before you send the email, I do apologize in advance and um, yeah, we appreciate that we we are not perfect, you know. So, um, this is, this is something where we want people. Also, if you're a Christian, whoever you are, pick up your Bible and read it yourself. There we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right you don't.
Speaker 2:Don't just say oh well, these guys said it, so you know, I believe it. It says fools believe everything. They're told the prudent sift and weigh every word. I'm just making sure I got that the right way around. But yeah, you should actually go find the things that we're saying in your Bible and pick it up and read it for yourself.
Speaker 1:And when it's the same when you hear anyone talking, whether they say that they're a professor or pastor or whatever else. Agreed, and my friends, just before we actually end our podcast today, like we mentioned, we're going to give someone an opportunity to give your heart to Jesus. So Dan is going to lead us in the sinner's prayer, I'm going to pray after him and, my friends, you can just repeat what Dan said so we can give our hearts to Jesus.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is for everyone. Okay, you say this now. Whoever you are, dear Jesus, I believe that you are the truth and I believe that you died for me and that you love me, jesus, to save me and for everybody. Jesus, I pray that you would be with me and I pray, jesus, jesus, that you would come now and you would take away what I did and that you would clothe me with your Holy Spirit and with your righteousness, jesus, which was your sacrifice and blood that was shed for me. I believe Jesus, and I pray that I will have it. Thank you, jesus, amen and Amen.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Jesus, Amen and amen. Thank you, Mr Dan Guys. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was a wonderful talk. We spoke a little bit about salvation. I hope we answered some of the questions that you might have had, Dan. Is there anything you want to add before we?
Speaker 2:finish, I hope that you will all have peace with Jesus and that you will know what he did, and that's really where we're headed. It is towards Jesus, and that's something that you should have in him and not by us, obviously.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, there we go. Thank you so much, my friends. Goodbye and God bless yes, thank you, and have. There we go. Thank you so much, my friends.
Speaker 2:Goodbye and God bless yes, thank you and have a nice day, you, you.