Handling Accusations As a Lead Pastor | Scott VanOostendorp

In this episode of the "Retiring and Aspiring" podcast, host Mitchell Leach interviews Scott VanUssendorp, a seasoned pastor with over 30 years of experience. Scott shares his journey in ministry, from his early years as an intern to becoming a lead pastor. He emphasizes the importance of personal spiritual growth as a pastor and the need to continually learn and evolve in ministry.

Scott reflects on a pivotal moment in his career when a challenging situation arose within the church, testing his leadership. He shares how he and his leadership team navigated this crisis with grace and wisdom, highlighting the significance of trust, prayer, and sensitivity to the Holy Spirit in guiding them through difficult times.

The podcast also touches on the topic of change in the church and how different individuals respond to it. Scott shares insights into handling change, emphasizing the importance of caring for congregants and building relationships with sincerity to foster openness to transformation.

Listeners gain valuable lessons and timeless principles from Scott's wealth of experience in pastoral ministry, making this episode a must-listen for both aspiring and experienced pastors seeking wisdom and guidance in their roles.

Don't miss this enlightening conversation on the "Retiring and Aspiring" podcast. Subscribe now to stay updated on future episodes and explore more Gospel-centered content on the Resound Podcast Network.

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Transcript

Mitchell
Hey everyone, welcome to the Retiring and Aspiring podcast. I'm Mitchell Leach, and I feel called to be a lead pastor someday. I'm a pastoral candidate at Peace Church, and as I've taken this journey towards becoming a lead pastor, I've realized that the pastors who have gone before me have so much wisdom to share. So I'm interviewing pastors who have ran the race and have finished their roles as lead pastors. I hope these conversations with retired pastors will help you grow in your leadership and in your calling as a pastor. Let's jump into this week's episode with my good friend Scott VanUssendorp. All right, so Scott, tell me a little bit about yourself.

Scott
Sure, Mitch. Let me say thanks for letting me be part of this. This is your first podcast, so I hope it's not the last as well. I appreciate that. Cindy and I have been married 48 years now. I got married right after I graduated from Hope College, and then we moved down to Deerfield, Illinois, just north of Chicago, where I was going to be a student at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. God's grace, Cindy was able to be hired at the college. We had college housing there. And so we spent our first three years there on campus. After that, I wanted to do an internship. I had all my classes completed. And so I wrote to seven different pastors that I thought I would like to be under their mentorship. And a couple of them responded and was offered a position at Hudsonville Reformed Church under Harry Beelis. And so went there with a one-year internship and a lot of youth education, but also exposure to preach and those kinds of things. And about halfway through that internship, the congregation decided to stop doing an internship but rather wanted a full-time associate pastor. And so they asked if I would stay. And so a one-year internship turned into seven years. And Cindy and I were there, and we had no children. And so both of us just leaped full bore into ministry there, and were able to spend seven fruitful years there. And then in 1985, I was called to be an associate pastor in First Reform Zealand. And after five years there, the senior pastor had left and they asked if I would step into that role. And so then I was in that role until 2018, when I retired. So I'm in ministry because I'm bad at math, but how many years was that? Yeah, well, from 85 to 2023, so 33 years.

Mitchell
Wow, that's awesome.

Scott
2018, yeah, so 33 years. And so then I retired, and then two months after I retired, Hudsonville Reformed, where we had started, called and said, hey, we need a part-time pastor visitation. And so we've been doing that for the last five years.

Mitchell
All right, so the whole premise of this podcast is we're gonna ask two questions of someone who's spent a lifetime in ministry. And so one of the questions I think that could be a really cool one to see some fruitful discussion would be, what was the single most important decision you made as a lead pastor?

Scott
Yeah, and I appreciated the heads up and giving me that question ahead of time. As I sat down and just pondered, I thought, you know, there's a couple decisions that I made personally, and then there were decisions I made ministerially. And so I wanted to – and it was interesting. What came to my mind is simply I made a decision that I was going to make sure I had time each morning to nurture my own spiritual life. And so to do that, I was in the office at 630 every morning and no one else came in until 8. And so I had an hour and a half to read and to pray. And when I pray, I pray out loud, because otherwise my mind wanders. And so I was in my office, I was able to pray knowing that I was alone and had that time to be there before the Lord, but I knew that I needed to nurture my own soul if I was going to help nurture a staff and then the congregation as well. And so that was, I think, a very significant decision for me. Yeah. It shaped me in that way. I think the other significant decision was the understanding that I needed to grow and continue to grow. People often ask me, how in the world did you stay at 33 years. And the answer that I give is because I was not the same person and the church was not the same church. And so I knew that I needed to continually grow. One pastor said to me, I can tell a lot about a pastor when I look at their library. And of course, this was before digital age. But by looking at the shelves, are all the books 10 or 20 years old? Is this person keeping up? Are they reading what's current? Are they growing themselves and transforming? Are they taking in workshops? Are they humble enough to realize they don't have the answers because they have a degree, but rather they need to continually grow themselves and develop? And so I continue to buy books, much to my wife's dismay.

Mitchell
Isn't that every pastor's weak point, you know?

Scott
It is. It's like a carpenter with tools. So just to grow myself, and then also to continually grow the congregation and calling them forth into being what God had called them to be, calling them to take a next step, calling them to be brave, calling them to take a risk, calling them to make the changes that needed to be made. And so the congregation was morphing and changing. I was growing, and as a result, we weren't the same going 33 years together, but rather we were kind of like a marriage growing forward. So those are two very significant decisions that I made. What were some of the risks, when you talk about growing your congregation, what were some of those things that you did? Because I think that can be a scary thing for someone to think about as being a young pastor, like calling out a church to say, hey, you're not there yet. What were some of those things and how did those play out for you? I went there in 1985, and the first five years I was an associate, and then I stepped into a senior pastor in 1990. And the 90s were not good. They were difficult years. We were trying to make some changes in worship style and those kinds of things, and there was infighting. There were people questioning and not happy with where things were going. And so in the late 90s, I can remember I went to a seminar. And for those who are older, they'll remember Rick Warren and Purpose Driven Church. Yeah. And I said to our leadership team, our elders and deacons at one of our monthly meetings, I said, would you be willing to give me six Sunday mornings during the Sunday school hour to go through this book with me? And I got a lot of pushback. I'm like, well, we go to grandma's house for coffee during that time. Or, you know, I go to Sunday school with my wife or whatever the case may be. And I said, just six weeks. That's all I'm asking for. And in God's grace, they agreed. And so we started meeting to go through purpose-driven. And some weeks we would, we'd have great discussion. And other weeks, the book never got opened, but we spent 40 minutes on our knees praying, literally on our knees. And God used that time, six weeks morphed into three months. And so we started mid-September and we didn't stop until Christmas break. And out of that time of dedicated prayer and dedicated learning and growing and submitting ourselves to realizing that God had a future for us and a purpose and a plan. There was a revival out of that. We started growing numerically. We started adding to our educational ministries. We started adding staff. And then we built a brand new worship center and paid off that in just a matter of a few years.

Mitchell
That's amazing.

Scott
the willingness of some leaders to say, this is out of my comfort zone, and also to recognize that they were going to be asked to make some decisions that were going to be hard decisions. But that if we stayed the same, we probably would not be engaged in the ministry that Christ was asking us to engage in. Yeah, absolutely. So I know when you're building a new worship center, it means that you've grown pretty significantly. And I know that you're humble enough that you wouldn't lead with that.

Mitchell
So you got to be a pastor of a church that probably grew pretty rapidly. Was that the case?

Scott
Well, it grew steadily, I would say. I remember going to our elders before all this happened, and I said, we met on a Monday night and I said, yesterday morning, I ran up to give a note to somebody who was taking care of our nursery before worship. And I said, how many children do you know that were in worship? How many do you think were in worship? And the elders kind of looked at each other, and they were all probably in their 40s, so the 50s, they wouldn't have kids in the nursery. And I said, there were two. And I said, play that out 10 years from now. What will that mean for youth ministry and so forth? And then we went through this experience where we spend a lot of time in prayer and focus and discerning, asking. And then we started to see young families start to attend. And suddenly, when we built our new worship center, we also built a nursery. And we built it about twice the size we thought we would need. But we were in the building five years and we realized that the nursery was too small. And it's just one of those moments where you kind of are humbled into silence, where you say, oh God, we had no idea what you were gonna do. And so we live in that, the joy of that, or seeing God's movement among us and seeing young families come to Christ, and families that were saying, we want to grow as individuals, we want our families to be under the nurture of scripture, so forth, so it was an exciting, exciting time. That's really cool.

Mitchell
And so when you set out to do this, you weren't setting out for church growth, you were setting out just to help your elders grow

Scott
in their understanding, right? Well, yeah, I guess I was wanting to help them grow in their faith and their walk with Christ, but I wanted them to be leaders. And what I was experiencing is that these were men of deep faith and they were men who loved Jesus, but they were also men who were, they didn't know quite how to say that what we had was not good enough, that there was something more that God wanted to do with us, and we had a future, not just a past. Our church was, I got to celebrate the 150th anniversary during the 90s, so it started in 1848, the church started. And so it had this long distinguished history and a lot of families that had a lot of extended family scattered throughout and history of, if one family was disenfranchised, that could ripple through the congregation. And so leaders led with a sense of concern or worry or fear about who will this impact and what will the results be, what will the consequences be, and wanting not to step on toes and so forth. And I think we came to a new place of understanding leadership. Leadership is, you don't beat people up, but you invite them into a future. And your purpose, your job is to create the vision of that future, so that people can see what you believe God is asking you to come into. And so once we started to live that way, once we started to make decisions that way, it blossomed with fruit because people could start to see the vision that the consistory, the elders, the deacons had embraced and were now leading into.

Scott
It was a beautiful time. Yeah, that's awesome.

Scott
It's very humbling and it's very satisfying to see the Spirit of God moving among God's people. And I remember, Mitch, we come from a tradition of baptizing infants, and every baptism is huge and significant and a miracle and God's work and so forth. But I again, I found myself challenging our elders and saying, when's the last adult baptism we've ever had? And, you know, we've had a few sprinkle in now and then, but we started to pray saying, you know, I can remember very distinctly saying, guys, will you pray for four adult baptisms this year? Just four. And I wish we had said 40 because we had four. But yeah, we went out and bought a horse trough and filled it up with water and we put those adults in that tank and dunked them and the congregational worship was just a joyous celebration. I mean, they could not contain being in their seats. They had to get up and express their worship when they saw these adults go from death to life through Christ. So it was amazing. Yeah, that's powerful. You know, out of that whole time that we spent together as the leadership team on Sunday mornings, you know, we did develop a vision and a mission, and then we developed a strategic roadmap to meet that mission. And that governed our leadership from around the late 90s to when I retired in 2018. We tweaked the language and those kinds of things, but it gave us a map to move forward. And so it was a very productive time. And for us, it was, I don't think it's too dramatic to say, it was kind of a Pentecostal moment, where you read in Acts where they were gathered together to pray and the Spirit fell upon them. Well, that's what we did, is we gathered together. We thought we were gonna do this book study, but really it turned into a prayer meeting that lasted three months, and the Spirit fell upon us. And it's not to say that everything went well and everybody lived happily ever after. There were some major changes that took place, and change is always hard for a congregation, especially when it's 150 years old. Yeah, like steering a warship, not necessarily like a canoe, you know? Right, exactly. Yeah, in the mountains. All right, so the second question is, what was the craziest thing that happened during your time as a pastor? This is a question that I like to ask because I think that there could be some funny stories in there, but also, you know, I've been at a few different churches and I've seen some things that happen behind the curtain of churches, and there can be some really hard things that happen to pastors that never really come out in the light and some of those things are things that pastors, young pastors, need to hear and learn from. So it's okay if it's funny, it doesn't need to be super serious, but what was one of those crazy moments for you that happened during your ministry? Yeah, you know, when you texted me that question, I started just jotting notes down on a legal pad, and I thought, I should have kept a journal because I think it could have been a bestseller. Yeah. You know, one took place, I had been at the church for two and a half years and the senior pastor took a call and left. And so I was trying to carry his load in my job description and had a search team go in and so forth. And they called a gentleman to come and be the new senior pastor. And he was there for six months. And after six months, we discovered that he was carrying some baggage that wasn't old baggage, but it had come with him. And it was of serious nature, serious enough that we needed to let him go. And I was 34 at the time. And I remember calling our vice president and the elder board and another elder and asking them to meet. And just three of us, I shared with them what we had discovered, because it had been discovered in the office. And so I was trying to keep damage controls as tiny as I could. So I met with them and they said, you know, we need to meet with this gentleman. And so we had a meeting the next morning and we confronted him and he came clean and we said, you know, for you and your family, you probably need some time and we need time as a congregation. You're still in the honeymoon phase and suddenly you find out that your spouse has been unfaithful to you. And so we had that meeting and I remember he left to go home, knowing that he would not be back. And so it was just the two elders and myself in my office and I remember an emotion swept over me I I've never had it since where I could not contain the sobs and the whale. I mean it just engulfed me because I knew His marriage and family were never going to be the same and I and I knew that this church Was not going to be it was going to be scarred. And the question is, you know, would the wound fester into an infection and hamper its ministry, or would, by God's grace, would that wound heal? That we could point to a scar and say, you know, God's grace continued to work and the scar is not going to go away, but the wound is. And so, a very, very difficult time. And hard for a congregation to get its mind around, you know, six months and your new pastor's gone. You have all these hopes yet and you're dreaming about the new future and suddenly he's gone, very suddenly. And again, by God's grace, those were a few difficult months, and we had to do a lot of meetings to try to, because people wanted to know why. And we painted a picture in broad strokes, but for his family's sake, we couldn't start giving details out. We had to live with some accusations coming at us because we made this decision. And we had to keep quiet, knowing that we could justify ourselves. But in justifying ourselves, we were going to destroy what God might do in their family. So we endured several months of that. But then trust became, came back and we started to be able to move forward. So, yeah, it was a hard time.

Mitchell
Yeah.

Mitchell
How do you handle something like that when you hear those accusations? I mean, that's never an easy thing to have when you're in ministry, especially when you're going through something like that.

Mitchell
How did you personally handle that?

Scott
Probably not as well as I could have or should have. Probably it would have been wise to find a seasoned pastor that I knew I could keep confidence or he would keep confidence and just get some wisdom. What happened, I think, was that Cindy, my wife, became my therapist. And I look back and think that wasn't fair to put on her. But, you know, she was grieving as a congregational member, and then she got protective of her husband because she would hear these accusations. And so it wasn't, it was hard time for her as well. So as I look back on it, I probably should have been more discreet with her and then more open with a neutral third party that wouldn't be emotionally involved in it and so forth. But yeah, there are times when you just have to say, you know what, I would love to tell you more, to somebody who's making accusations, I would love to tell you more that would change your mind about what you're saying right now, but I can't. And then I am free to tell you why I can't. And why I can't is because we're praying that this person's family doesn't blow up. And if I tell you, and that just starts to ripple through the community, there's a real good chance that's not going to happen. So I can tell you why I'm being keeping confidence of details and it's going to be up to you to determine whether you're going to continue to question and be suspicious of the leadership or if you're going to say, okay, I don't need to know I'll trust you. Yeah, that's so wise. Yes Yeah, it's it's you know, and again you realize that If the Holy Spirit isn't moving among his people Then you're left to human devices to bring direction and healing and so forth. And those, they can be wise and they can be good, but they're limited. And they many times don't deal with people's hearts. And so it's the spirit who will transform a heart of suspicion into a heart of trust. And so as your leaders, I remember, you know, at that time, my primary focus was my leadership team and just saying, this hurts. And you guys, this is first for you to have your reputation questioned. So, how will we pray this through? How will we move forward in this? And so it was, you know, when you're a team and there's opposition, it can either divide you or it can cement you. And so my prayer is, you know, God cement us that we realize that we can't start mistrusting one another, but we need to trust you first, but trust one another so that we can move forward. Yeah, that's great. Well, thanks Mitch. You know, when I was thinking of those times when I did become a senior pastor, the senior pastor, we had gone through a time of determining vision and mission and so forth. And so we started implementing changes in worship. my first Sunday as a senior pastor, the theme of the morning was, let's begin again. And so we brought in elements of some new songs, but we also used drama and worship. And this was back at what time? Yeah, this was 1990. Okay. So that was cutting edge for that time, right? It was for Zeeland, Michigan. Yeah, very much so.

Mitchell
Yeah.

Scott
But we had come to the place of saying all arts are available to be part of worship if they bring glory to God and edify his people. So we were in the future, we would start using dance and we had people sculpting during worship. We had people painting during worship. And people got used to like, okay, what art form will help us this week? But this was the very first Sunday and we had communion. And so I remember being in the lobby afterwards and having people say, oh, this was so refreshing, thank you so much, we can't wait, you know, and so forth. And then by Monday, starting here, the other side of things, people were not happy. And I thought, oh boy, here we go. Well, the following week, we had sung a song just before I was going to preach and everybody sat down except one gentleman. I was at the pulpit and while people were sitting down, I glanced down at my notes to start my message. I looked up and I saw, there he was, standing in the middle of the sanctuary. say anything, he pointed at me and then he said it in very prophetic words, beware of Satan masquerading as an angel of light. Oh man, oh my goodness. This is your second Sunday as a lead pastor? Yeah, yeah. So I acknowledged by name and said, thank you, you can be seated. And then I went on as if nothing happened. But then just before I gave the benediction, I said, I'd like all the elders to meet me in the office suite following the benediction. And that sent a message to the congregation. They knew what was coming. They knew why that request was made. And so we went in and met and, you know, I just let them express their thoughts and feelings. And I look back at this and I don't think it was pride. I pray it was, but I remember saying to them, as elders, you have a decision to make. Either you address this so it never happens again, or this will be my last Sunday. Because I knew we were at a crossroads. And because of the trust that we had built up board, they grabbed onto that ball and they did so with the grace of Christ. Oh, I sat back and just marveled. They, you know, they didn't come out with vindictiveness, but rather they brought this man in, they sat down with him, they talked with him, they affirmed his faith and so forth, but they helped him appreciate that, you know, that it was not appropriate and the implications of it and so forth. But I realized in that moment that change was going to come hard. And certainly it was a moment of realization that some people are going to need a tender encouragement to get on board and to move forward because their entire life, he was in his mid-80s, his entire life, worship had looked like three hymns, you know, a Apostles' Creed message, and then you're done. And suddenly, he was feeling very insecure at that point.

Mitchell
Suddenly there are people dancing.

Scott
I created this discord in his mind and soul. So I realized that change needs to happen, but how people engage change is different for various people. And so leadership needs to be aware of and appreciate and then say, how do we make this change happen that brings everybody along? Yeah, then just discard some people. Mm-hmm But yeah, wow, I look back at that and think oh my word. Yeah Yeah, it was pretty Pretty wild when I saw him standing there. Yeah for everyone else who's listening

Mitchell
Scott and I have actually worked together and we were both at Hudsonville Reformed for I was there for three and a half years and I remember hearing this this story. This is actually the story that led me to to pursue this podcast because I remember you telling the story before and I remember thinking I would I would never have handled it like that could have been a train wreck if I would have been up there. And I remember listening to how you handled that and I went, man, more people need to hear that story and more people need to hear stories like that. Because that's given me so much wisdom of how to think about, you know, if something were to happen like that or, you know, just to think about some of those things. So, so thank you for sharing that with me a long time ago. And thank you for sharing it again.

Scott
You know Mitch, what that story and some others that I think of Helped me recognize that no matter how many times you do something There's this tendency like this is routine. I know this I know how to do this. I've got this. Yeah, but We don't know Really what's going to happen. And so, somebody gave me a note, and I'm not sure if I'm quoting exactly, but something along the lines like, ministry without prayer is the highest form of arrogance. And I thought, I need to keep that in front of me. That, you know, just because I've led worship or preached or done this, like, I got this, because you don't know. And it's like the Holy Spirit was saying, you know, okay, you got this, and you know, and you know, you're right. I could have blown up the church if I had it, you know, so it was like, so even now, you know, the Holy Spirit driving here, I was thinking, you know, would be arrogant and not sensitive to, well, maybe the Spirit wants this to be said. So that incident reminds me of that often, that I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, yeah. Well, as we wrap up, I just want to say Thank you for your ministry. I know that there are hundreds of people that have been impacted by your leadership, by your faithfulness to what you've been called to. And I'm so grateful just to hear just two quick stories of some of those times. But I just want to say thank you for what you've done in ministry and thank you for who you are. And thank you for coming on and sharing this with another generation. I think this is, I know that these conversations are going to help teach another generation

Scott
how to step into that.

Scott
Well, I certainly thank you Mitch for giving me the opportunity and just to do some reflecting. It's been helpful for me to do that. And yeah, times change. how ministry happens changes, but there are some principles that, you know, are timeless, that we need to anchor into and solidify. And, you know, as I was thinking about our time together, I thought about the fact that, you know, people, they are shaped by our teaching and our preaching, but they are open to that teaching and preaching by knowing that you sincerely care for them.

Mitchell
Yeah.

Scott
And, you know, time after time, as I look back at my ministry, the people that trusted that I sincerely cared for them and for their family, they were open to taking another step, either into change or into a ministry that, you know, they had never done or whatever the case may be. But as soon as somebody, you can preach the best sermon, you can have the best lesson plans, but if they don't believe you have their best interest at heart, so your shaping of lives is determined not only by your preparation for the message, but your preparation and how you've built that relationship in the lives of others. And so that's a timeless thing, I think, that I'd want to share with you young leaders. So blessings to you as you have this new task here at Peace Church. And obviously God is doing a mighty work here, and I'm glad that you can be part of it. We miss you at Hudsonville, but God's blessing to you.

Mitchell
Thank you. Wow, there was so much to learn there.

Mitchell
I'm going to have to go back and listen to that interview again because Scott has so much wisdom to share, and I know that there will be more than a couple of things that I will want to write down. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. We plan on doing this every week. And subscribing is the best way to never miss an episode. Retiring and Aspiring is a member of the ReSound Podcast Network. Retiring and Aspiring is a member of the ReSound Podcast Network.

Scott
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Transcribed with Cockatoo