Permission to Kick Ass

Navigating cultural shocks and career transitions in business with Dusti Arab

August 14, 2024 • Angie Colee • Episode 182

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This episode with Dusti Arab was a wild ride through the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. We dove into the messy reality of building a business when you're not from a privileged background, and holy shit, does it get good. From stumbling into copywriting to rubbing elbows with celebs, Dusti's journey is a masterclass in saying "fuck it" and figuring it out as you go. If you've ever felt like an imposter in the business world, this conversation will make you feel right at home.

Can't-miss moments:

  • Spoiler alert: there are no straight lines in entrepreneurship. So why do we keep bashing our heads and breaking our own hearts when things don't go as planned? 

  • Dusti's surprise encounter with Elon Musk's ex-wife and the culture shock that followed (and this will inspire you to confidently hold your own even when you feel out of your depth)... 

  • Is there an "intermediate" step between "I don't belong here" and "I totally belong here"? Dusti and I weigh in on making big leaps, especially when you don't have the experience or context...

  • Falling apart or falling together? Dusti's "52 dates in 52 weeks" experiment, and the unexpected way she met her husband (talk about a plot twist!)... 

  • What if, and hear me out, ending a relationship didn't always have to be a terrible, traumatic experience? Dusti and I rant on breaking things off while things are going great (and why it works so well for ADHDers)...

Dusti's bio:

Dusti Arab is a fractional CMO and the founder of the reinvention co, a marketing consultancy specializing in working with personality-driven companies with small teams. Intense, fun, and relentlessly practical, Dusti understands the lives of small business owners are deeply intertwined with their businesses, and if their marketing is going to be sustainable, it can’t get in the way of why they do what they do. (And honestly? It should be fun so they actually want to do it.) She is the host of Referral Worthy, a podcast for small business owners ready to go from “best kept secret” to the go-to name in their niche.

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Angie Colee:

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine-figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, angie Coley, and let's get to it. Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. I'm so excited for this one, please, everybody. Welcome to the show my friend Dusty Arab. Why, hello, angie, and she's got the red lip color. Like you match my hair with the lip color almost. It's fantastic.

Dusti Arab:

Your hair always is fascinating and I'm obsessed with your hair. It always looks so good.

Angie Colee:

Thank you. I was to tell my stylist the last time. I got a little bit bored and I went in and I said I'm ready for something new, Like here's my inspiration picks. Surprise me. She's the one that came up with purple and red hair, Of course, and can't see me like petting my hair right now, but it's fabulous Anyways. Fabulous looks, fabulous hair, fabulous business. Tell us all about it.

Dusti Arab:

Absolutely so. I run the Reinvention Co. We are a small marketing consultancy. I work primarily with personality-driven based businesses here in the online space, so that's a lot of authors and people with small teams, things like that. So usually someone brings somebody like me in if they just got their book sold to a big publisher and they're like hey, I know that Penguin Random House has a little tiny, suck ass marketing department that isn't going to do anything for me, so I'm going to hire somebody who does know what they're doing to help me build out everything I need around the book so I can actually make money and sell as many books as possible when it does launch.

Angie Colee:

Oh, that's so important these days. I remember when I wrote my book last year I was thinking so much about do I want to go the traditional route? Do I want to go the self-published route? Each one of these has its pros and cons, but then, when I looked at it, at the end of the day, the big major con to the traditional publishing route is that most of them are like so how many followers do you have? What size audience are you bringing to this? And I'm like, if all you're doing for marketing is counting on my audience, then I ought to do the damn thing my fucking self.

Dusti Arab:

You know, and that is like I totally understand why people do both and like and I've self-published books before too. I've self-published books before too. I've seen both sides of it for sure, and the truth is, no matter which route you do, you're going to be doing all of the marketing yourself, at least at, like, the high levels, like even. I mean, I know somebody right now who got a massive deal and is like primed, probably gonna have a New York Times bestseller, and they have had to invest so much time and so much money in order to make those things happen. Like, really, the only thing the publishing company has been able to do for them is give them a handful of contacts and additional people to potentially consider asking for, like, a quote for the book.

Angie Colee:

That's fantastic. Yeah, that's. That's one of those things where I get a little bit bullish and stubborn and be like I can do that myself. Thank you very much and I will be keeping all of the royalties for my efforts. I appreciate you well, and it's funny like I have this, uh, like stack of notes, of course, that I keep while I'm asking people and the one thing that I wrote down from I have this intake form for everybody that books, a recording spot. I said tell me about a setback in your business and you wrote which time. Lmao. I was like I know we have to talk about that, oh man.

Dusti Arab:

Well, I think it's just so important for people to be honest about the fact that entrepreneurship is not a straight fucking line.

Angie Colee:

It just isn't.

Dusti Arab:

Oh, absolutely entrepreneurship is not a straight fucking line. It just isn't. And for me, like I do not come from a traditional background, like at all, I'm from the wrong side of the tracks. My mom is still a bartender. Like my kids have different dads. Like I mean, by all accounts, I should not be where I am at today. And even once I did enter the entrepreneurship space, it was a lot of stop and go for a long time because it was just so different than anything I'd ever experienced.

Dusti Arab:

I was working at a Starbucks when I started my first blog and that was in 2010. I was still, I was like in the middle of college and I had just found like the internet, sort of Like I'd had a live journal, like when I was like in the middle of college and I had just found like the internet, sort of like I'd had a live journal like when I was in high school and things like that and like, and I really liked that format of like writing and I remember at the time even my friends would ask me they're like, who are you writing that for? Like, because they were all kind of writing to communicate with each other and that was not how I was using it, Like I use it, like I was using it the exact same way that you know I use Facebook now Like I'm I'm using it to like talk to people and tell stories and like sort through all the nonsense that's in my head 24 seven. But when I, when I first started this blog, it was very different and it had like it was like peak blogger days and I didn't really know that at the time. But when I, when I was reading some other people's stuff, they're like, yeah, you should do this, Like this is a good idea, and I was like, okay, fuck it, I'll do it.

Dusti Arab:

And I took Leah Babauta's like a hundred dollar blogging class and I had my first like viral post two weeks later. So I was pretty good at it. I was 22. So I went from like zero to 20,000 subscribers, basically overnight, and that was terrifying, Let me tell you. And I was like a mouthy shithead of a 22-year-old too. Like I mean, aren't we all?

Angie Colee:

I'm nodding because hard same, absolutely. Now I tell 22-year-olds I remember when I knew everything, oh yes, Absolutely, and I mean this was the.

Dusti Arab:

I mean I think I was blogging like that for like six months and really what happened for me was I realized that maybe I wasn't the misfit that I'd grown up thinking.

Dusti Arab:

I was Like I'd grown up in this like sleeper suburb community and it was kind of shitty and I always just stuck out like a sore thumb like my whole life. And so when I discovered this other weird little enclave of people on the internet, it was so exciting. It was so exciting and I remember I was talking with Ash Ambridge like six months after I'd started this and I was like okaybridge, like six months after I had started this, and I was like okay, so like how do I make money? And she looked at me and she was like dude, you should be a copywriter, you're a great writer. And I was like what the fuck is a copywriter? So I went and Googled it and then I stuck out my shingle and I started copywriting for $12 an hour for somebody I would find out like a year later was a 19 year old stripper in Texas and that chick paid my rent for like six months.

Angie Colee:

Nice, nice.

Dusti Arab:

Everybody gets started somewhere.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, exactly, I think every, every copywriter I know, which, by the way, for anybody who's new to the show or new to marketing, copywriters are people that basically specialize in advertising and sales writing. Dusty and I both have a very long background as copywriters before we went on to become other things like podcast hosts. Right, both of us have a show. Every copywriter I know has fallen into it.

Dusti Arab:

And that's kind of how it works. Like you want to make money writing and like originally, like I really liked that memoir style, like that kind of posting, but I couldn't see like a clear way to make that an audience and like I just it was also new for me. I'm like I know how to exchange a service for money and that made sense to me at the time and so, like again, it wasn't, it wasn't a straight line there. So I started copywriting. Eventually I picked up other skills in marketing and eventually, like these days, I'm operating at like a you know, a fractional CMO is what I call myself, but I'm like a jack of all trades marketing person who can come in and run your team and hire and you know and manage, manage the whole damn thing so that you don't have to worry so hard about making the internet print money for you every time you need to. Like you need a thought leader and you need a thought partner in that.

Angie Colee:

Yes, absolutely. Well, I'm curious this is kind of going back to what you talked about when you said you know I'm from the wrong side of the tracks. I don't have this traditional backgrounds right. Did you ever have any hesitation in starting your own business, or like an instinct to hide who you were, or did you always embrace that?

Dusti Arab:

That's a good question. I mean, I don't think I could hide who I am if I wanted to. I'm very mouthy, but I did experience a lot of culture shock. There was one situation in particular where I figured out, like, within, like that first year, like, if I volunteered for events, I got to go, even though there was no way I could pay for them at the time. So I got to go to the very first world domination summit that Chris Gullibow hosted here in Portland, and because I knew a guy on the planning committee and like and all those people are still here and they're all still friends and it was such a great opportunity for me to meet so many people who I still know today. And that particular conference, like six weeks later there was another one happening here in Portland, and so I also had the benefit of like being in like a little hotspot for like for that particular niche.

Dusti Arab:

And at this other event I met this woman who we just hit it right off. She was so cool and so funny and we were, you know, talking about feminism and the way that we see, you know it, changing the way we interact on the internet and the way that movements are made, and all of that. And then at dinner I heard some people like her name was Justine. I didn't think anything about it. I'd never heard of her before, I didn't know who she was. But at dinner that night everybody at the table was talking about her and everyone was gossiping about her and I was so confused until I went home and Googled her because her name is Justine Musk and she was just profiled in Glamour Magazine for her divorce with Elon. And that was kind of where I started being like, oh, we are not the same and not in a bad way. We continued that friendship for a long time, as long as she stayed in the space. We were still hanging out and all of that. But yeah, I remember being pregnant with my son, Tristan. This was in 2012.

Dusti Arab:

And I was in LA for Blog World. I had gone with $25 in my bank account. I had like the only reason I went was because the ticket there was so cheap, but I was 95% sure I could pick up a client if I went down there and saw people in person. And I was right. I actually left with three clients, because that's what I do at live events like that and one of the things I was going to do down there was go have breakfast with Justine, and we did, and then she drove me to like a train station afterwards because I was flying at a long beach and we were waiting for the valet, which I had never done before.

Dusti Arab:

That was culture shock enough. Then, when we got in the car, we were sitting there and she's looking for stuff and she's like I'm sorry, this isn't actually my car, I never drive this thing and I was like, oh yeah, it must be for one of the boys. She's like yeah, Because the kids all have their own nanny and their own car. And like, oh no, this like it was just like, thinking about it was just nuts to me at the time. And like, and that culture shock has definitely colored the way that I've engaged in online spaces. I know that I have made so many social faux pas, like, and now like I mean I'm 36 and it really took me probably that first 10 years in business to kind of learn how to navigate that space and, like you know, learn, learn how to deal with triggers and stuff in that particular context.

Dusti Arab:

Because like for me, capitalism and entrepreneurship, like all this stuff, like it's the only way out in America, Like I don't. I do not see another way unless you come from a privileged background. So there was never any question for me that I was going to be in this space, but it took a lot for me to learn how to pass and be able to engage in the space.

Angie Colee:

Oh, yes, it's interesting that you mentioned passing, because I feel like I had a similar culture shock, although I think I hit it fairly well for a while. What happened to me was the opposite, and I've told this story on the podcast before, but, like I was always very buttoned down. To me was the opposite, and I've told this story on the podcast before, but like I was always very buttoned down, I would. I would be snarky and like online forum posts every once in a while, but I really held back my personality until I went to an event and similar thing. Like I would do whatever it took to get to an event because I had an instinct that my magic was in person. And it turns out that's right. Like I don't do well cold calling, cold pitching I've tried every single tactic out there under the sun. Nothing works better for me than being in the room with people that I get to meet and like, hey, tell me what you're working on. Oh cool, have you ever tried about that? Like that's how the relationships develop. Anyway, I'm at this bar, have a couple of drinks, get a little bit of a buzz going. I still don't know how I told it, how this came about.

Angie Colee:

I wound up telling a story about getting into a mosh pit fight and literally watch people lean in and go wait, what, who is this Angie? And that was when I started to kind of like come out of the shell, so to speak, really just embrace who I was. And then you mentioned, you know, this culture shock. Same thing I'm the eldest of three kids. My mom was a single mom and my parents were both truck drivers, so we didn't grow up having much.

Angie Colee:

I've had several of those experiences over the course of building my business, where somebody invites me into a room and I have to stop myself from saying like holy fuck, I had no idea stuff like this existed. But I just I take a deep breath, I go, wow, I soak it all in and then I go back and journal about how I'm manifesting this shit for myself, because now, like, I used to take it as kind of like personally offensive that other people had stuff that I wanted. Right, that was unevolved Angie. And now I can see it for what it is perception, expansion, showing me what other possibilities are out there for me to explore and hey, maybe I can figure out a way to get there or a different path.

Dusti Arab:

Who knows, oh God, I love that so much and that's always like. That's really how I felt about it too Like for me, I've never really I don't know, I won't say that I've never been like a jealous person, but usually, like, I've always seen that, like when when I got that feeling it was because I wanted something and that was always so clarifying. And then, like, when I started to get into personal development work, having like the research support that I was like, oh, like other people already know this stuff and like one of the people for me actually in the space that really shifted things for me in that regard was Tanya Lee. She's a life coach and her brand is called French Kiss Life and it's very like. I mean, she's blonde and pretty and a little frou-frou and but she is just the nicest, kindest person and like and it's because she grew up in a fucking trailer park in the South and like then became like a like a cardiac nurse before she was a life coach, so she had all of this like background before. Like she started changing things and stepping into this. Even the way she, she spoke like changed drastically and I found that so inspiring and like and it ended up like I was.

Dusti Arab:

I was on the end of like a really bad breakup in 2015. And well, I got. I got divorced in 2015, rebounded with a dude for a year and then, like it, just you know, total fuck boy blew up at the end. And so I was flying out to LA to see a friend who was just I was like I need to just get away for a while and she was like guess what? We're going to fucking Disneyland dusty.

Angie Colee:

And it was my first time in Disneyland.

Dusti Arab:

So I knew you would like that.

Dusti Arab:

So good friend takes me to Disneyland.

Dusti Arab:

But while I'm in the airport, I'm like every time I'm in the airport I always end up buying more plane tickets because I'm just like, oh, I love being here, I love being here, I love going places. And I found cheap ass tickets to Paris and I fucking impulse bought them on the spot and I ended up getting to go and see Tanya there a couple months later and she was like I know that this, like some of this, is like oh a lot, like you're killing it, but I know that this is like. I know what it's like to go through that kind of a transition. And so she took me to the Hemingway bar at the Ritz and we've like went and like drank champagne at the counter there and we went out to this incredible restaurant. She introduced me to other people in the area and it was really that experience, I think, more than anything else, that I was like, oh, like this is like I don't, I don't not belong here, and like that was really a big transition point there for me.

Angie Colee:

I love that distinction that I don't not belong here. For me, I love that distinction that I don't not belong here. It's not quite the same as I belong here, but it's also not the definitive I don't belong here. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense, but that made perfect sense to me when you said yeah it's like the body positivity movement, um like.

Dusti Arab:

It's like you're you're going for neutrality first because that's what's accessible. It's like I don't. I don't hate the body I'm in. Like I feel okay in this body in this moment. I don't have to love it all the time, I don't have to like. You know, maybe I'm not ready to love myself yet, but if I can get to that point, I can see where maybe I can someday.

Angie Colee:

Oh yes, how many of us have like failed or given up or deemed ourselves failures because we couldn't flip things on and off like a light switch. I mean I say this like chuckling with all the love I have to me and to everybody that's listening to like we have these ginormous expectations of ourselves to do these massive personality overhauls overnight, eliminate habits, replace them with better habits, and like if I don't wake up in the morning having lost 50 pounds, suddenly I'm a failure.

Dusti Arab:

Right.

Angie Colee:

Oh, and I love you telling that story about Tanya, like knowing other people who have made that journey and that transition, One of my big icons for dealing with my own money issues and right Anybody who's new to business or in the early stages. Nobody tells you how much of this is personal development and just coming face to face with your own bullshit.

Dusti Arab:

Literally all of it is personal development.

Angie Colee:

Yep, coming face to face with my own money issues and this belief that money was evil, like people that had money were bad, that kept me stuck for a long time. I started to fixate on who do I know who is out there in the world that has money and does good, much like you said with this coach, tanya, like this is a kind person. This is the person that is the same backstage as they are front stage right and they have money and they do good in the world. Dolly Parton, y'all I say our Lord and Savior, dolly Parton, all the time to anybody who will listen and do not be smirch her name in front of me. Woe be unto you if you do that.

Angie Colee:

But like, look at this, she didn't give a shit what you think about her. She does her own style, her own damn way, does not care what you think. She's out there giving bajillions of dollars to causes that she cares about and she's kind to everybody. I've seen so many videos of her like holding hands with people, singing along with people, like, uh, so that's my model now. Like I'm gonna be so filthy fucking rich that I can be just like my idol, dolly parton that is the best life goal, maybe ever.

Dusti Arab:

Yeah, that's like you can't go wrong with that, like her, her nonprofit that distributes books to children under five. I was just reading a stat about it and, as of right now, one in five kids in the United States get books from Dolly Parton.

Angie Colee:

That's so incredible. That's so amazing. I love that foundation. I can't remember she wrote the sweetest little thing on her website when she explains what that charity is for. But the part that I do remember was that her father grew up illiterate and she just wanted to show him that, like reading is great, and she wanted to pay tribute to him, and it was just this beautiful reason why she wanted to get books into the hands of as many kids as possible, and it doesn't matter who you come from or what your background is. Kids zero to five get books every month from Dolly Parton Period, the end, the best, the best. All right, so we talked a little bit about falling into copywriting, how you've stumbled into this world with all these big celebrities, which is really cool. How did you get from copy to reinvention company?

Dusti Arab:

Well, originally when I started writing copy like I had started with about pages because nobody likes writing about themselves, like it sucks. There's nothing that is more confronting immediately than having to go write 150 word bio about yourself, let alone a fucking about page, and especially if you're not super established, so you haven't had it done before, so it just brings up all of your shit. And so initially when I was doing that like every time I would get on the phone with somebody they'd end up in tears and I was like you know, I was in my early twenties and I was like, oh, I don't know how to hold space for this.

Angie Colee:

But it was very like Are you supposed to be recording right now? I don't know.

Dusti Arab:

Right, oh my God, and it was very. I was like, okay, so this has like a little bit of a therapy thing going on here which, like I had just discovered therapy myself. I was like, okay, so I can only see what's going on here, but what would end up happening is like I'd end up doing these pages for people on their websites, or I do some blogs or whatever, and they'd be like, oh God, it would just be so great if you could just like put it where it goes. And I thought about it and I was like, I mean, I did that for my website so in theory at least, I could probably do it for yours. Do you want to pay me more money? And they did. So I went and I learned basic web design and I learned well and realistically.

Angie Colee:

I'd been learning basic web design even in high school Like remember the angel fire days, God I used to do that shit for fun all the time.

Dusti Arab:

Like I built so many websites on there and all about my different like weird little niche things that I was into all the time like textbook, undiagnosed ADHD right there Like that was what I did for fun. It was like I info dumped on all these micro sites like good grief. If I would have known what a wiki was back in the day, oh shit, I would have lost my fucking mind.

Dusti Arab:

But so it started there and just like wanting to be able to do more for the people who were already paying me, and so it was like there and at some point, like I remember, I was having trouble getting enough copywriting work, Like it just I felt like I had expanded as far in my little niche as I could, given like what I had going on in my life, and I ended up in like picking up some like OBM type work. So if you're not in the industry, online business managers, they basically run everything behind the scenes. And because I had a marketing brain, I was really good at it. I was really good at it. So I could just step into that right-hand woman role right away and I was pretty comfortable there. And at some point I realized all of these people want all of the same things. I'm seeing these patterns everywhere. So in 2016, I started my first agency. I'm seeing these patterns everywhere.

Dusti Arab:

So in 2016, I started my first agency and it started as just me and my friend who was in operations and she was coming from a corporate background, and I was like, girl, I have these like 12 people who are willing to pay me like thousands of dollars a month, but I cannot keep all of them, Like I cannot keep track of all of this. I need systems. I need somebody else to be my fucking brain, Like I need somebody else to do for me what I'm doing for all of them, basically. And so we did that and I made so many mistakes. Good God, Um, my God loved my friend. She like we are still friends. It took me forever to pay her off after that agency failed because it did Like we made it a couple of years and I just I couldn't keep up with it. And there were. There were other factors at play there too, Like part of why I had so many clients was because they were all from the same MLM and during the election year, when I came out as, like, pro-Hillary, all of a sudden I had a lot of clients drop off, all but one, all but one, and that was the beginning of the end there.

Dusti Arab:

So I had to let lots of people go, and I always try to, even when I was dating. I have a policy of leaving things better than I found them. So for clients that I couldn't continue to take care of if I had a copywriter or a designer who I thought they could, they could use. I just farmed everybody out, basically and and kind of started over like that was a I mean end of 2016,. That was a rough year for me, like between the breakup and you know, getting finally getting in some traveling and all of that. Like it was just such a big expansion year for me in so many ways that, like I, I just needed to create some space there. Honestly.

Angie Colee:

Oh man, yeah, that sounds like. It sounds like such an upheaval year, and this is the thing that's coming to me and tell me if it's accurate for you. The thing that pops into my mind is, like all the opportunity that comes in upheaval, when everything falls to shit, there's usually some nugget of gold that's buried among all the shit that you usually have to dig for and you don't want to dig because it's been a shitty year. Okay, I don't want to do anymore, but there's something there that can be rebuilt into something even better if we have the courage and the bravery to see the opportunity instead of like I'm shit, this is shit, I'm a failure. Woe is me.

Dusti Arab:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it was like I knew that that year was going to be a lot of it, so I said yes to lots of things that I wouldn't have otherwise. It's like I mean, I went to Paris for 10 days by myself. I did meet up with some folks there that I knew, but I remember at the time people being like you're so brave, I'm like I'm going to a major city. I'm like I don't feel like it's that brave, it's not that big a deal, don't read into it too much, but it was life-changing. It really really was, and it was such an incredible growth experience and it helped lay the way for everything else that you know kind of came after that.

Dusti Arab:

So I floated in and out of some like more traditional employment for for a minute there, I mean really like I. I met my partner now husband that next summer in 2017. There and, like between then and like COVID, I bounced around with traditional employment in addition to my freelancing and still doing a lot of what I was doing online, and that was really the right call for me. I wanted to get some more traditional experience and I mean as traditional as being a VP of marketing at a cannabis company can be, but I got to spend other people's money to hire and get good at hiring and for running these larger projects, and so I just got to play in a bunch of different arenas that I didn't get to previously. And I'm so glad that I did, because when I did come back in 2020, I mean, I I think I had a full client load within a week of lockdown. It took no time for me to just step back into it and yeah, and that just kind of kicked off everything else.

Angie Colee:

I love that, and there's a couple of things that, like, I've been taking furious notes this entire time. There are a couple of things that I want to highlight. One take opportunities right, and I actually read a post in a in a copywriter group just earlier today where somebody said one of the things that I did that held myself back for for such a long time without me realizing it was, I was so deathly paranoid of somebody trying to take advantage of me and giving away free work that I closed off my mind to any potential opportunities and going all the way back to when you talked about volunteering for some of these conferences and going to things, putting yourself out there, right, that's not somebody taking advantage of you because you volunteered for free. That's you doing what you have to do to get your foot in the door and serve yourself from that buffet. Right, there's that big heaping table full of all the good stuff. I'm gonna get in there and get some, right. So I love that. I also love that you talk about making mistakes, like and going in house, because those are some recurring themes over the course of the show of like.

Angie Colee:

Well, what if I fuck up? What if I try this big thing and it fails. Welcome to entrepreneurship. You're going to try big things. You're going to try little things. They're going to fail and you're going to bounce back, and it's okay. We're a little bit rubber, it's okay. Going in-house is also okay. It doesn't make you any less of an entrepreneur that you took a job and you fed your family and you kept a roof over your head and you did what you needed to do. I actually think it's a super smart way to get good, especially if you're pivoting Like I need a new skill set. I'm going to go get somebody to pay me to get good at this thing. That's how.

Dusti Arab:

I got good at copywriting. I don't know why more people don't do that Like that God. I actually remember seeing a panel during that first year at World Domination Summit and I mean, and I was still really young, so like I felt, like I still was in that phase where, like I knew people who were doing internships and apprenticeships and all that stuff too. So like I get, when people are who are more established and are like at a certain age, like don't wanna do that stuff as much or it's not as appealing, I completely understand that. However, I was right in the middle of that and I remember it was a panel and it was Jonathan Fields and Pam Slim and I think somebody else, and I remember somebody in the audience just asked some asshat fucking question because this was peak. You know, tim Ferriss, four hour work week. It's like how can I get people to pay me to do X, y and Z?

Dusti Arab:

can I get people to pay me to do X, y and Z and Pam says go get a job, and just like in that voice, in that tone, and her and Jonathan were just like, seriously, just go get a fucking job, like it's not that big of a deal, and then you'll have the answers you're looking for Plus experience, like obviously, like there's nothing wrong with letting people pay you, in whatever capacity that looks like.

Angie Colee:

Oh yes, and especially for creatives, like creatives, who are trying to do business and you're trying to sell your services to other business owners. Nothing is going to clarify this more than actually working for somebody and understanding how what you do fits into their business. I've worked with graphic designers, photographers especially copywriters who think it's all about the stuff, it's all about the words, it's all about the story, it's all about the photos. No, it's not. That is a piece of the overall puzzle, and until you wrap your head around how that fits into somebody else's business, you're constantly going to be wondering why this is so hard. So going in house and seeing how you fit into the overall puzzle and like what you can do to amplify things, what what you do that might double things right, it's going to give you such saleable experience.

Dusti Arab:

Absolutely, absolutely and and honestly that's actually so. The way that I've structured my services these days is almost like that. Like it really is. Like like I am not a full-time person you can bring in, but I'm so fast that you don't really need a full-time person most of the time for these smaller and when I say small, most of the companies I work for are between like two and 10 million. So that's like where it makes sense to have like a fractional CMO.

Dusti Arab:

And when I come in here I'm like part of what I do for people is like if we're working together at this level, then I want to have, I want my hands dirty.

Dusti Arab:

Like I want to be in the in the muck. Like I don't want to feel like a hands-off consultant. Like I mean and sometimes that has value like where you have somebody who's an outside voice and like and I'll come in and do that for like a VIP day or something. But where I feel like I'm the most effective is when I can integrate with a team you know, cut the fat, hire new folks and really create these cohesive marketing teams and campaigns. So in some cases I will work myself out of a job and that's great. Like I mean that means that I've gotten the company to a level that they do need somebody who's full-time in-house, which is incredible, and I love being able to operate in that role. But I really like these leaner, smaller teams like that, because they are recovery, like you know. There's more flexibility, we get to move faster and you get to know people, and that really is important to me, even in a fully remote role like this.

Angie Colee:

Oh man, that's fabulous too, and it ties back into another point that I wanted to make that you said was brilliant. Like, how do I get people to pay me? How do I do more for these people that are already paying me? And this seems perfect, like you used that experience to get you to a piece that you love. Help them grow, help them get the right people in place and then peace out, my job is done Right. I've met so many people on the entrepreneur thing. Like how do I get in with these people for like ever, and I'm like, I'm with the crowd. That's like a little bit ad, a lot adhd. I don't want to be here forever. I want to get you to good enough. And then, hey, like, if we continue working together throughout the years on different projects, absolutely, like, I need to keep the smart fresh. That's what makes my magic work.

Dusti Arab:

Yeah, it's true, and especially in marketing, like for anything, marketing like tangent like you need that, like you need fresh blood, you need to have fresh perspectives and stuff Like there's. So I have one client who I've been with their team for like a year and a half and I knew from the moment I signed on that was probably like an 18 month to three year contract and I'm already seeing now where, like either this author, this you know this author is going to need to write and sell another book here or in another six months. It may not make sense for me to stay on with the current model because we've already optimized everything we can optimize. They're not launching new products, so like, unless there is some kind of an activation point, I don't need to be there and there's nothing wrong with that, like it wouldn't be like me leaving because something's gone wrong or whatever. But I just have no interest in working on the same boring ass thing over and over and over again.

Dusti Arab:

And I love their programs. I've taken their programs, like it's so good, it's such good content, but I've already done it. So like I'm looking for something you know, like I want that spark too for me, like I want to be able to fall in love with your business and your project. And that, does you know? That means we gotta, we gotta like move it along once in a while.

Angie Colee:

Thank you for saying that and for saying that in such a just, uniquely dusty way, because I think that there's a lot of fear around relationships ending and that it always has to be a bad thing. Why can't it be a graduation, instead of like, oh shit, now we can't work together and I need to get another client right? It doesn't always have to be this bad thing when a relationship ends. Sometimes it just ends because you both got what you wanted out of it. I actually remember I hired a life coach Hi, brian, if you're listening to this and work with him for about two and a half years, and I remember on our last call we were getting to the end of our I think he did like three or six month packages. We were on one of the very last calls and he gets on, he goes. So what do you want to work on today? And I was like I don't know, I don't really have anything, and he goes.

Angie Colee:

Nothing came up for you this week and I was like, yeah, I mean I had a couple of things, but I had the tools and I did this and I did that and I'm feeling pretty good, I'm feeling pretty proud of myself. So, like we chit-chatted for a little bit. When we got to the end of the call and we started talking about does it make sense for us needed? Like I think I'm really feeling good, I feel strong, um, just evidenced by this call, the fact that I didn't really have anything to talk about. I was able to handle all the emotional meltdowns myself and come out better for it. So like, thank you, I feel like.

Angie Colee:

I graduated coaching.

Dusti Arab:

And that's incredible. Like and it doesn't mean you won't go back in the future or that you won't work with another coach in the future or on something specific, but that's exactly how I feel about it too, and like I mean for being someone who's a marketer and has been in this weird little corner of the internet for like a long time, at this point, like I am a hard sell. I hardly buy anything from anybody and if I do buy something, it's because I've been watching you for years and I've vetted you with like multiple of your clients. Like it's I mean it's it's ridiculous honestly for like the level of purchase that that I'll still do this with, but like that's.

Dusti Arab:

that's the kind of buyer I am.

Angie Colee:

It's so funny that you say that. I'm actually honestly the opposite buyer, and you actually experienced this last year when you and our friend Hillary decided to throw this collaboration cruise and I had always wanted to go on a Virgin cruise and y'all basically said like hey, come have fun with us, we'll work on your business. And I was like that's it. I mean how to? And I mean there is some background vetting. You and I met when I was traveling on the road. I'd known Hillary for a while, so, like it wasn't you know, I'm just seeing strangers on the internet saying come on a cruise, build your business. There is a little bit of selling that's happened in the background all this time.

Angie Colee:

But like y'all said here's the offer and I went yep.

Dusti Arab:

Well, and that's that is my favorite kind of thing to offer, like when it's something that like, and we wanted it to be just like the easiest, yes, possible. So Hillary and I hosted a collaboration cruise on a Virgin voyage and we took like 10 people and we went and talked business for a couple of days and were spoiled, rotten on a cruise. And it was amazing because we knew exactly what we wanted there. We wanted it to be so easy to put on, we wanted all the details taken care of for us and because, like anyone who's been in entrepreneurial circles knows that, like at events, the most valuable part about any of those events and we've kind of talked about this on this call is what's happening on the sides, those conversations that are happening in the wings. That's where the magic is. So, for something like this, like it was like Disneyland on a boat I mean, I guess they have that already, but that's true, it was better.

Angie Colee:

Honestly, uh, at the risk of sounding like an angry old auntie, uh, no, kids, that was great. Um, the the Seaview terrace. I literally slept one night in the hammock out there on the seat. Lest this devolve into a commercial for a Virgin Cruises hey, richard, call me. Um, I loved that experience. It was such a good refresher on and gave me so much perspective and introduced me to so many cool people. Like, ah, I don't know where I'm going with that tangent either, but like just letting you know if, if Dusty or I offers some sort of experiential thing to work on your business, I think you should jump on it because it's usually pretty fun. So, um, there was another thing. Actually, this kind of ties into what I was saying with the boat. Uh, sometimes you got to just say yes and figure shit out, and that sounds like exactly what you have done for most of your career. Can you speak to that a little more?

Dusti Arab:

oh man, yeah, I have god. When I read I only read year of yes, like two years ago, and as soon as I did I was like, oh, me and shonda man, like I am, I am feeling this and like, and she's got like other other stuff going on for sure in in that book. But that idea of actively choosing to put your biases aside and not your preferences necessarily, but like your, your preconceived notions, I guess is what I'm trying to say putting the preconceived notions aside and trying more things. So, like that year after that breakup, I was like, okay, I've been a serial monogamous my whole life. I have to learn how to date. So I'm a doofus. So I decided to turn it into a challenge and it's a half written book on my hard drive right now and I was going to do 52 dates in 52 weeks and that's how I was going to stay single, how I was going to learn to date and, like you know, we'll just. We'll just figure it out. It'd be a fun little writing project to do on the side while I'm running a business and raising children and doing all the other shit that I was doing. What a good idea. And then I realized I was a hot girl on the internet and I did way more than 52 dates because I thought it was hilarious.

Dusti Arab:

But, god, that year, though, like the, by the time I had gotten to like the next May. So I'd almost completed my year and I had said yes to all sorts of people you know for dates and stuff who I wouldn't have given a second consideration to before, and, generally speaking, what I found was like my instincts are good, I didn't need to do those things. But one of the last ones that I said yes to was this guy who I had seen in a bar the year before and we had all ended up at the same table because we had a mutual friend and I was still dating fuckboy at the time, and we were, all you know, hanging out. It's karaoke bar, you get it. And this dude, like at one point, throws his arm around my waist. It was like whew, and my boyfriend got all like blah and like marched us out. I'm like whatever. So when he showed up on Tinder, I was like, oh, boyfriend would have hated this. Swipe, right, let's go.

Dusti Arab:

So we hung out for like six weeks and had a great time. He was super, super cool and he took me to this 4th of July party and I met all of my people, including my future husband, there, and so, like it was just like as soon as I'd walked in that room, I was like I already knew that like our shelf life had pretty much run its course, but we were still kind of hanging out and having a nice time. But as soon as I walked in that room, I was like, okay, I have to figure out how to make sure that he can't get rid of me, so I have to make friends with all of the women in this room right now. And up marches this girl and she sticks out her hand. She's like hi, I'm Kirsten, like Biersten, and next weekend I am running her bachelorette party and the two of them are getting married Nice.

Dusti Arab:

So it was, everything works out in the end. She's still Biersten in my phone and Brad's not so bad either. I got his big dumb face on a giant stick and we're going to make it a totem for marching around New York so we don't lose any of our party.

Angie Colee:

That is fantastic. Yes See, sometimes things are happening for you, even when it seems like everything is falling apart and it's not going the way that you want. And that doesn't even sound like a falling apart story, that sounds like a falling together story. But so often we get fixated on like this is not going the way I want it. Like you could have easily taken another mindset to that of like oh, another guy that's only lasting like six weeks, what is I know? I said 52 dates in 52 weeks, but like what is wrong with me? That this is not working and you didn't take that tactic and it worked out.

Angie Colee:

So, like faith in yourself, my darlings, if you're in that rough growth stage, if you are under $50,000 a year and you're like what the fuck? Get a job, it's okay. Or don't get a job, it's okay. If you're in the 5 million plus range, get a dusty, don't get a dusty, figure stuff out, it's okay. You can say yes, you can do the damn thing. Welcome to this bizarre wild ride of entrepreneurship where we can do whatever the fuck we want. Permission to kick ass granted.

Dusti Arab:

Amen.

Angie Colee:

That feels like the perfect spot to just like wrap on. So tell us a little bit more about you and your business. Thank you for being such an incredible guest. Where can we learn more?

Dusti Arab:

Totally, so you can come learn more about me and what I do at thereinventionco. I also have a podcast called Referral Worthy. You can find it on the same site and anywhere you listen to your podcasts. It is mostly focused on building a referral worthy business and everything that goes into that. So those are the two things I am going to seed that I am going to be running another business making retreat here. It's not until April of 2025. I'm going to be taking a group of women to France and if anyone's interested in joining me, we're in the preliminary planning stages. So now's a good time to reach out. Nice, nice, I was like.

Angie Colee:

Well, of course, we're in the preliminary planning stages, so now's a good time to reach out. Nice, nice, I was like well, of course we're staring into cameras right now, but I'm like she's making pointed eye contact at me. We're going to do this. Thank you so much for being with us on this show. This is incredible. I'm glad I got to see your face and thank you. That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick-ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high-octane dose of you Can Do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Permission to Kick-Ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, spotify and wherever you stream your podcasts. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.