Permission to Kick Ass

"I have no idea what I'm doing but I'll figure it out" with Robb Munger

• Angie Colee • Episode 198

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Today's guest is Robb Munger, founder of Exodus Place. Robb's an experienced real estate developer and is no stranger to business challenges, but starting Exodus Place proved to be an entirely new kind of challenge. We talked about the raw, real, and often misunderstood world of homelessness and addiction, and Robb does not hold back. He shared his journey from helping a single homeless guy to running the largest transitional housing facility in Michigan, and the lessons he learned along the way may just leave you feeling inspired to go help out wherever you can. 

Can't-miss moments:

  • The "God moment" - hear what inspired Robb to throw everything he had into Exodus Place, even when he already had so much going on in his life... 

  • My beef with asking for help: I get good and ranty about the time I had to swallow my pride and apply for food stamps... 

  • Turns out none of us are automatically good at a thing? Robb and I share what we've learned about being brand new (and how to handle it with slightly more grace)... 

  • Robb's surprising perspective shift that makes it easier for people to seek out help (I wish I'd had this one back in my unhoused days)...

  • The "water bottle trick" Robb used to help someone struggling with addiction discover an unpleasant truth... and then DO something about it...

Robb's bio:

Robb Munger, founder of Exodus Place, champions transitional housing for homeless men. With a background in finance, where he established a leading financial company in manufactured housing, Munger’s journey took a pivotal turn when he joined the board of Guiding Light Mission. There, he propelled a struggling rescue mission into prominence and transformed a former state corrections facility into Michigan’s largest non-governmental transitional housing, offering new beginnings to those in need.

A former Army Officer, Munger’s commitment to service shines through his philanthropic work and innovative solutions in community development. His collaboration with the Salvation Army and Goodwill in a small town within American City has showcased an innovative approach to addressing homelessness, demonstrating the impactful change that results from combining compassion with action. This initiative, with Munger at the helm, has become a testament to the power of collaborative community efforts in making a tangible difference in people’s lives.

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Angie Colee:

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine-figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Coley, and let's get to it. And welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend, Rob Munger. Say hi.

Robb Munger:

Hi Great to meet you.

Angie Colee:

Angie, it's great to meet you too. I'm never going to forget how to pronounce your name because you said Munger like hunger.

Robb Munger:

Amen Right.

Angie Colee:

And that's actually kind of related to what you do, right.

Robb Munger:

That's right.

Angie Colee:

So tell us a little bit about it.

Robb Munger:

Well for Exodus Place. We help the homeless. We're a transitional housing facility, we're not a rescue mission. So our thing is to help people that are deciding they don't want to be homeless anymore or they're coming out of prison jail. They've decided at some point in their life that, hey, this is it and I want change.

Angie Colee:

That's such important work, what?

Robb Munger:

got you into that? Well, I helped a homeless guy. He said I'll work for food, and this was back in 2007. Put him to work. I had the preconceived prejudice notions that homeless people are lazy was raised that hey, if you could pound nails or sweep floors, you had a job. And so I assumed they were just being lazy. And then met Tim McCann and learned that his lifestyle, what had happened when he was growing up, was a big impact on him. And this was back when if you smoked pot, you got arrested. So he ended up with a felony and it just snowballed on him and realized he was working for my company. I own a real estate development company. I still own that. And then he was working for me at home and the guy was brilliant.

Robb Munger:

He was extremely smart, hardworking, could figure things out, was fun to work with and I'm like, okay. So all my preconceptions were absolutely wrong and I put myself out there. Okay, because nobody wants to say you're prejudiced. But I think we're all a little prejudiced, no matter what. We're always prejudging people to be safe and protect ourselves. But just loved working with this guy. He started drinking about eight weeks later, connected him with a rescue mission, ended up being on the board of directors of the rescue mission.

Robb Munger:

The rescue mission it's one of the largest ones in the state of Michigan ran into financial trouble. The board asked me to step in as a business person. They said, hey, we don't need a christian pastor or somebody, we need somebody that has horsepower and can kick ass, you know, um, and? And I'm like, wait a second, I'm a country mouse, okay. And I said you can do your job. You know, keep, keep. Obviously, keep doing what you're doing. But we need somebody to right the ship. And I did increase the P&L profit and loss by 6,400%. They were at a point of having to close the doors after about 50 years. And so I thought, hey, I did my good thing. I helped Tim because Tim worked for me for like eight weeks and so I had a really good connection with Tim and then helped the rescue mission and I had this building, exodus Place. It was the old Michigan Department of Corrections halfway house, so it's 38,000 square feet. We're the largest transitional, non-government transitional housing facility in the state. Actually, even government-wise we're still the largest. And I had this set to be donated to the rescue mission to do transitional housing. And what ended up happening is the rescue mission said hey, you just got us out of the fire, we're in the skillet now. Commission said hey, you just got us out of the fire, we're in the skillet now, just kind of, you know, licking our wounds. After nine months of me turning things around, we're going to pass on this. So I left.

Robb Munger:

I thought, hey, I did my good God thing, checked the boxes. You know I'm going to heaven, you know, kind of you know type of thing. But that's really kind of what I was thinking, because I'd never done anything like that. My wife and I would donate. But I hated working for nonprofits because volunteering, they weren't organized and everything. And I ended up after two weeks going out to dinner with my wife and had a God moment. All I can say is all of a sudden it just hit me and I looked at my wife. I said I'm supposed to do this project and so I ended up starting Exodus Place, actually 15 years ago, in one day, so July 2nd 2009. So this is cool that I'm on this.

Robb Munger:

The building was decimated, the fire suppression had burst because we're in Michigan, so it froze and the managing partner. It was owned by a private entity that leased it to the state. They were from Louisiana, they winterized the regular plumbing, but they didn't winterize the fire suppression, so everything was flooded. It smelled like mold mildew. It had been closed up for two years and I opened it up with four homeless guys and it was a $100 a month lease because I agreed to pay the back taxes, which were about $300,000.

Robb Munger:

And I said you got to give me some time and it took us about eight years to get them all paid off. And in the state of Michigan, if you didn't pay, you know the oldest bill they would auction your property. So every year I'd go to the tax assessor and sit in his office and say, hey, I got everything, but let's say 5,000 bucks, can you, you know, bump it another year? And they bump it another year and they bump in another year. So it was absolutely crazy. You talk about starting from the back of the pack and then going back another mile. That's about where I started. When you know you get that starting line with four homeless guys myself, 38,000 square foot building and 2009,. Highest unemployment, highest foreclosure, highest bankruptcy, and I go. I'm going to take this project on.

Angie Colee:

I'm all in. I've never done this before. Let's figure it out.

Robb Munger:

It was absolutely the dumbest, craziest thing I've ever done in my life that was probably going to fail. I mean I told people, I said we're probably most likely going to fail. This is absolutely. I mean women, children, puppies, kittens, those are cute. I mean you donate for those. You go. Hey, you want to donate for guys? Not really.

Angie Colee:

That's so unfortunate. Like everybody needs help from time to time and I remember the stigma of this. You know what, we're just going to roll with it. I was like I don't know why this story is coming up. But I know why this story is coming up.

Angie Colee:

So when I was going to grad school, I was living in Los Angeles arguably a very expensive city, right, and at one point I'm doing full-time, unpaid internships because entertainment industry and I'm doing classes on nights and weekends and I'm running out of money. I just don't know what else to do. So my parents advised me apply for benefits. You've been paying into this since you were 14 years old. There's nothing wrong with being on food stamps, it's just temporary. It's there to support you and so with that mindset, I went into it like that's right. I've been working since I was 14. I've paid a lot into this system. It's okay for me to take it when I have a need and then just to go back to work and keep replenishing it, right?

Angie Colee:

Oh my gosh, the amount of judgment and nasty looks and unsolicited commentary I got whenever I whipped out that EBT card. I felt so much shame for just doing what I needed to do to survive and I hated that. It was like exactly like you mentioned at the beginning. There was so much prejudice and prejudgment. I had people that would comment on my car, that would comment on my cell phone. Everything is secondhand, everything is paid off. I'm going to Ross and shopping for clothes. La is an image conscious city. I have to look the part, if I want to get the job, like can't show up and just like ratty jeans because that's all I got. Ain't nobody going to give me a job, right? But because people make these assumptions just looking at your situation from the outside, it was so deeply uncomfortable and so I'm very grateful for folks like you for the experience that I had too.

Angie Colee:

That one changed that perception, gave me an opportunity to stop being judgy before I understood what the entirety of the situation was. Two take that situation and actually go do something about it. Not just have the lesson, but actually go do something. So you know you started Exodus Place. I volunteer that's my. I do that kind of sporadically, but every time I tell people when my world has become me-centric, when I am the center of the universe and my problems seem like the biggest things to ever exist. That's usually when I get a little bird that says, hey, go volunteer for a little bit, like help out some people that are struggling with stuff. That is way worse than what you were going through right now. Just remember you're not the center of it all. That's always been a good philosophy for me.

Robb Munger:

Oh, I totally agree. I mean and I admire you, I try to. I tell everybody, ask for help. I'll have guys here that say, well, you don't ask for help, and I go. I have a kitchen manager, a nurse, case managers, I have two pastors, well, three. I have a bookkeeper, I have a CPA and then in my personal I have a private you know business and in real estate development, some other businesses and I go. I have project managers. How do I do everything if I do it all on my own? When you need help, I don't care if it's food stamps, bridge guard, we call them bridge guards here. You know housing assistance, cell phone assistance. Take the assistance because you have a mission, a goal. You can take that and leverage up and become successful. But if you say nope, nope, I got it out of pride, you will lose.

Robb Munger:

Yes, I mean you will always lose if you don't take the help.

Angie Colee:

Absolutely Well and I'm like this is where I have kind of a bone to pick with American exceptionalism, right. I do love that this is a land of opportunity I do. I am super grateful that I was born here and that I've had the opportunities that I've had to just build whatever I want to build right. There's definitely worse places to be and also there are a lot of societies where there is a community factor in place, where somebody is sick and struggling. You don't just leave them alone to struggle and die on their own because, oh well, have figured out their stuff sooner, like yeah, it's a lot of judgment in the united states.

Robb Munger:

I mean, we don't have, um, the family nucleus is different here, uh, compared to india, um, um, pakistan, uh, israel, um, I mean, china, japan, the family nucleus really does help each other a bit more than the US. I just had a conversation from a person from Pakistan yesterday and that was the discussion. I appreciate that we're supposed to, you know, get on our feet and make it happen, but doing it as a team boy, yeah, and as a family nucleus, I mean, and I'm guilty of it, you know, like with my kids, hey, get out there, buzz tail. But I'm softening up on that a bit now.

Angie Colee:

Hey, like we all start where we start, and I think that's the biggest. One of the biggest points I try to make on this show is like there's no judgment. If you are approaching a situation with judgment, you're already shutting down any possibility of there to be some sort of growth and further discussion. Texas was shut down when I was young. I grew up in South Texas, right Like that was my. I had a very us versus them mentality, very America, yeah, texas.

Angie Colee:

That's just the way that I grew up. And when you don't have any other perspective, it's hard to just like spontaneously develop perspective, right, until you're exposed to somebody else that challenges your worldview. Now if I come to that challenge and go, you're wrong, like this is what I know to be true Well, nothing is going to happen. But if I come to that and I go, ok, well, I don't know what, I don't know, let's see what happens, oh, that's where learning and growth takes place and it's difficult and it's uncomfortable and it sucks sometimes, but it makes your world so much bigger and better for it.

Robb Munger:

You're absolutely right. I mean, hey, it's uncomfortable for me to be interviewed on podcast. I mean, oh yeah, I mean I like to just do my thing and just keep working. You know, I'm kind of the generation you just worker be, you know, and Midwesterners are known for that, and so this is my, you know, area of expertise. So you have it. You know, you can't, you can't prejudge. I mean it just doesn't work. If you go into it to see what's going to show up and you have good people around you, I mean there's amazing things. That's how I run all my businesses is. You know, I just am looking for people, good people, and then listen more than tell, and then listen more than tell. It's amazing how much better things go than just relying on my own talent and my own knowledge.

Angie Colee:

Oh yes, oh yes. Actually, I had a client that came to me recently with something to that effect Like we had done a project together and I could tell that something was off and this person was not happy, and so I came to the final call like, ok, tell me what's up. Right, obviously there's a part of me that's going. This really sucks. I want you to be happy. I don't know what's going on.

Angie Colee:

But when I come to the call, it's like let's get to the bottom of this. I don't want you to leave this feeling unhappy, let's see if we can fix it way. So we go through. I actually wound up offering a couple of extra calls on this just to help figure these things out.

Angie Colee:

And when the engagement was finally finished, there's like a conglomerate, an instance like conglomeration of events, and this person had wound up having like a photography publicity shoot and the marketing project that they had done with me, and then wound up coming back to me and thanking me and I don't say all this to pat myself on the back, but like this was a learning experience for me too.

Angie Colee:

They said, oh, I just realized that I was like so fixated on controlling the how and the minutia that I didn't trust you. I didn't trust this photographer publicity person to do what I hired you to do. And this whole experience has helped me realize I've got a lot of growth to do to be a better client. And I said, hey, I appreciate the fact that you are saying that and also give yourself grace, because none of us comes out of the gate knowing how to be an excellent client. Right, you were just doing the best that you could and I'm glad that I could help you have that realization and I'm glad that we could get this project wrapped up in a way that made you happy, right.

Robb Munger:

That's critical. I mean learning how to be a good client, be a good employer, good boss. People aren't objects, they're people and we need to treat them as people, not objects.

Angie Colee:

Yes, that's so important. I used to tell people all the time I was the worst for a long time, especially with my background in screenwriting and Los Angeles and the entertainment industry. I was writing little plays that all of you guys were starring in, Like I'm writing a part for Angie and I'm writing a part for Rob, and stop. You are not following the script, Rob. I need you to follow the script. The day that I realized that this world is not Angie's just movie and I am not the director of the universe. It was a humbling experience and it has made my life a lot easier now too.

Robb Munger:

Very true. I think we all go through that. I know I have very true.

Angie Colee:

I think we all go through that. I know I have, oh yeah, I have like word for word scripts of like arguments in the shower and stuff like that, and then I have to realize, oh right, they're not just going to play the part that I wrote for them, so maybe I have to show up and listen and be a human we need more of that, angie I'm trying, I'm doing my, my small part to to help us all open up to the potential of there being something different from what we expect.

Angie Colee:

Speaking of different from what we expect, I mean you mentioned this rundown building starting with four guys, starting with this enormous overhead. You expected to close and for this to not work, how did you even?

Robb Munger:

work. How, how did you even? Um, I'm big into business plans. I utilize a one-page plan so it has a SWOT analysis so strengths, weakness, opportunities and threats. And then I'll have like a one-year plan, a 90-day plan, a quarterly plan and then a 30-day plan, and then I I do the theme, um, branding, um, uh, specific goals, what we stand for, and so, um, really dig in that way and that was probably the unique thing.

Robb Munger:

Okay, I came from doing multi-million dollar real estate projects. Now I have four homeless guys and two of them are crackheads and two of them are alcoholics and I had to teach them you know how to read a business plan. The reality is, we are going to follow the business plan. This is, you know, it's not word for word. You know, kind of my earlier days it was more micromanaged. Now I'm macromanaged and so I taught them all that. And then I taught them asset allocation, because we didn't have a lot of money, banks weren't doing lines of credits, so I had to teach them asset allocation. So I had to teach them asset allocation so we would look at our needs.

Robb Munger:

Painting was a critical need because of all the humidity in the building. All the paint had like fallen off the walls. It flooded that much. I mean it was like two to three feet of flooding. I mean the doors were holding the water in and so we had to paint the whole building. So I said, ok, asset allocation this is assets we're going to buy an asset which is paint we're going to put on the wall, and then we need to have a system. So that's how we got going is really right from the business plan.

Robb Munger:

And then I then started teaching them that painting and running a business is more than just painting. We have to be thinking of it in a global sense of how this is going to affect the business. So I was always analyzing everything and it was fun. I would get the guys analyzing it and they're like, oh so this is how you run a business. It's not just collecting money, spending money, there's a lot more to it. So we created systems for everything. But it was hard. I mean, mean, we run a hybrid system here. So we, we get um, we call it membership dues because it's a program um, the men are going through counseling, uh, medical help. Um, we have a liaison nurse that actually works with their doctors, their nurses, and then we provide the food here. So they pay about two-thirds of the cost here, and then we raise one-third of the cost through donations, and so really kind of just kept working with them with that, so that they would see a plan in each department, and then each department now runs itself oh, that's really cool.

Angie Colee:

Did they wind up like staying in and taking charge of those departments, or how did that work?

Robb Munger:

well, the goal was to to do that. Unfortunately, the addiction issues uh became too strong. Um, it was. And dealing, I don't have any. I have a donut addiction. Okay, so I'm gonna call myself. The guys laugh at me and they go. You know that's not addiction, I go. Hey, if I eat one, one long john, I'm eating five more and a sugar, sugar buzz.

Robb Munger:

Um, but in reality is I don't know what it's like for alcohol. I'm not alcoholic, I've never been one, and you know I don't like pot, so I'm not, I don't like the effects of it, so I don't experience all that. And unfortunately the guys started drinking. So one guy ended up drinking and ended up stealing money from us. So he obviously got asked to leave. So he obviously got asked to leave. The next guy started doing heroin and got the other individual that was an alcoholic involved with heroin and unfortunately Neil passed away from an overdose. And then the, the fourth one, he, he started doing crack again and he just knew, just like, I know I'm out of here, aren't I? And I said yep.

Robb Munger:

So we, we set up a theme here. We have three pillars. So the first pillar is people, mission me. So, um, it's easy to follow. And, uh, the mission is it's a hand up, not a hand up. So if a guy comes here and he says I've had men come here and they say you owe me because you're a non-profit, I don't owe you anything yeah.

Robb Munger:

Go to the rescue mission if you want food, but this isn't. This is. We're going to work together. So people first mission than me, and then the other is train, develop and communicate. One of the most critical things with homeless people and each pillar comes to deal with people that are struggling, so it's not really even homeless people we need to keep training and developing a skill and we need to communicate. And when you're in alcohol and drug addiction or let's say you're having a mental illness session because mental illness isn't forever, I mean sometimes it's just like the flu we always have to train, develop and communicate. So you know, a professional football player is not going to be perfect. He's going to make mistakes and so we just keep training and developing the skill. And then we have to communicate.

Robb Munger:

And alcohol and drugs really isolate. You know it creates a silo. So if you drink and you start thinking about it, the more you drink, the more numb the communication gets. You can say, well, I'm really the life of a party. It is up until a certain point of severe alcoholism and then you start isolating and that's a good numbing effect. So I had to teach people how to communicate. So that really was a critical thing is getting the guys to communicate. And then also in the communication, a lot of them had been in a jail or a prison and with the jail or prison they were always talked at and they were told what to do. And so I had to change their communication style so that they talked with me and we worked together. They talked with me and we worked together. That was a big breakthrough and that's one of our key things for success.

Robb Munger:

And then the last pillar is love, compassion and accountability. So if a guy comes in, I'm going to lead off with love, so I want to show that person love and then compassion, Because when they've come in, they don't have anything. They've been kicked in the teeth, Some literally they're they're looking for a safe haven. So we, we really look at that love and compassion and that nasty accountability. I tell the guys it's, I love to drive fast, but when the police officer pulls me over for going 85 and it's in a 60 mile an hour zone, he's not trying to be mean, it's just I'm going 25 miles an hour over the speed limit and I get a ticket, and that's just accountability. It doesn't mean he hates me and so we have that's just accountability.

Robb Munger:

It doesn't mean he hates me. We have that here at Exodus. We'll have somebody bring drugs or alcohol in the facility and we go. You get 24 hours out or you get 48 hours out or seven days, or you get a month out. But this is a privilege to be here and we don't hate you.

Angie Colee:

But there's rules rules so yeah you got to make different choices if you want different results, right? You can't bring you can't bring what got you here, here to get you to the next place, like and expect you to change.

Angie Colee:

It doesn't work that way that's just as true in like our daily life as it is in running a business. I I found like this is on the last call that I recorded we talked about this being a kind of a constant journey out of your comfort zone, because once you hit your goal, okay, well then, now we've got to set the next goal. You don't really stagnate for long if you're running an effective business, in my experience. Okay, Now we've set the new goal. This is also outside of my comfort zone. Oh damn it. I thought we were past this by now. Turns out no.

Robb Munger:

That's it. But if you don't do that, you're not going to grow Exactly.

Angie Colee:

Exactly and like I totally get it. Growing is uncomfortable, facing mistakes that you've made is uncomfortable. Facing judgment and our own internalized shame, like half of the time. I've come to realize, especially through these conversations, the shame that we feel is way more intense than the shame that other people are actually putting on us Like they might be thinking about us and passing and going.

Angie Colee:

What is what is up with Angie? Why is she doing this? I'm so she'll come around, it'll be okay. I'm just gonna distance myself, right? That has happened before. And then I'm over here going. They're not talking to me. I am the worst person ever. I have clearly messed up, right. Woe is me. It's never as bad as it seems. There's always a way out. Even if it's hard, there's always a way out.

Robb Munger:

End rant that's so true. I mean, that's one big thing that we work. I don't. We don't have a lot of um rules here. A lot of people are surprised. It's basically don't smoke, you know, don't do drugs in the building, don't drink in the building and no violence. Um, those are my three big rules pretty basic rules for life, I think yeah, and it's.

Robb Munger:

It's funny because they they will say it's really easy to work here and live here, and because we have a workforce development program too, and we don't know why it's working here and it doesn't work outside. You know why it wasn't working and and. But we also set a culture with those three pillars that this is how we're going to behave. So, if a guy comes up and he's going I need this, I need this, I want this, and I go, wait a second, we got that first pillar. What are you doing for somebody else? Well, you got to understand. I don't need to understand anything. I understand that you are centered around you and you don't care about me. You don't care about any of the other guys. Well, you're not important. I said great, I understand that. So, guess what, since you're projecting, I'm not important. The other guys are bums. But you just got off the street from camping, from being homeless, and you're more important than all of us, right, yeah, and I go. So how's it been working for you?

Angie Colee:

well, nobody wants to help me I.

Robb Munger:

Well then, why don't you try it this way? And I've had so much success where people go okay. So one of the. I don't have, like I said, many rules. One of the rules is if you walk into Exodus Place, is we introduce ourselves first to you Because you're uncomfortable? Yeah, so whether you're, let's say, a business person coming in to a place that's holding homeless people that have gone to jail, prison and everything else, or you're coming from the, you know, deciding to get off the streets, either way you're nervous because we're people, and so come in. Hey, hi, my name is Rob Munger. What's yours? You know what can I help you with? And all of a sudden you go. Okay, oh, this person is giving me the impression they care about me and I'm a person. Small roles.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because I feel like a lot of people feel like it's so much effort to care and to quote or bastardize a quote from a movie that I really love. That's kind of corny. It's called Ever After. The prince, who's very conceited and self-absorbed, says I once thought that if I cared about anything, I'd have to care about everything and I'd go stark, raving mad.

Angie Colee:

It's not that big of an undertaking to care, and often it starts with these little things, these tiny decisions. Like I greet people because I know that this is uncomfortable, I want them to feel welcome here. So totally different vibe for me to say hi, I'm Angie Coley, welcome. What brings you in today? How can I help you? For me, then, for me to be over here not paying attention when you walk in. You have to go. Hey, excuse me. Hey, hey, hey, is this thing on? Do you even see me? And then I turn around all aggravated like can you give me a minute? Totally different vibe Tiny tiny decision, tiny tiny action. It's not caring about everything in the world and being ground by it all, it's caring just a little bit.

Robb Munger:

That's it. We're a Christian-based organization, but we're a seeker one. So you can come in and not're a Christian-based organization, but we're a seeker one. So you can come in, not be a Christian. There's no judgment, zero Love that Really mean that, but it's just focused on that person. I call those God appointments because you're showing somebody love and compassion and their day could be total crap and in that moment that you're present with them, you go huh, you know somebody cares. Yeah, I mean we deal with people that kill themselves, have suicide. Yeah, I mean we deal with people that kill themselves, have suicide and it's and boy, I just don't ever want to be that person. That's too busy for somebody that's that has a stress.

Angie Colee:

And God appointments always show up when I'm busy. They love to challenge us, don't they?

Robb Munger:

Yeah, and then you go, oh, you know I'm really busy. And then I go, yep, what's going on? And I got to just stay, you know, present with them, and then everything works out, my schedule works out. But that person knows I cared about them. At least somebody cared about them.

Angie Colee:

Funny how that always works out, that like I can't possibly help this person, I'm way too busy. If I do this, I can't do that. Drama, drama, drama, right, and I'm not saying that to you, that's definitely me. But if I do the thing, my soul is called to help people right. And if I help the person, despite all my busyness, it always, always, works out. There has never been a time in my life that it has failed to work out when I followed my heart and helped the person.

Robb Munger:

You're exactly right and usually for me, like with my business here, and then for-profit. When I do that, I get a deeper relationship with my customers. Today I had two customers that text me and they said thank you for being who you are.

Angie Colee:

I love that. That's really awesome.

Robb Munger:

I mean, I didn't prompt them, I was just and you know there was, they need help with a couple of things, and but it's. You get better customers when you treat people better.

Angie Colee:

Yes, you get better everything when you treat people better. You get better employees, you get better partnerships. You get everything is better when you treat people, I think, actually, that brings me back to a point that I wrote down earlier that I wanted to circle back to, which was like. You might have heard me chuckle when you said to that man like one of those tiny little decisions to lean into the control factor and be like, all right, but you don't get it, get out, versus leaning into the compassion of like and how's that been working for you? Talk about like. That's an instance, guys, right where you're slapping somebody in the face. Without having to slap them in the face, you're confronting them with the reality of their decisions. You're confronting them with the reality of their decisions and that's often way more intense and meaningful and personal and like, going to lead them to a learning than you going. Don't you see everything that you're doing wrong? Let me show you the consequences. I just thought that was brilliant.

Robb Munger:

I'm still working on that because it's amazing, because my intent is to do good. And then let's just say I have a day that I react poorly because we're human. So you have a trigger that, emotionally, something happened in my past that would trigger me to snap or not be as nice as normal. And that's just reality for everybody. There are some saints out there. I'm not one of them. So one of the things I ask too is like I'll hold a water bottle and I go, hey, they'll explain.

Robb Munger:

You know why their way works so well, let's say, giving me excuses why I don't pay their bills on time, why they can keep drinking. And I go tell you what, let me, if I drop this bottle or let go of this bottle, is it going up or down? And they go, well, obvious, it's going down. I said so. You've been an alcoholic to the extent that you've been arrested numerous times. You don't have a driver's license, so you think you can drink a little bit. So what if I just let go of this bottle a little bit? Is it gonna? What's it gonna do? It must? It's probably gonna hover, go up, and, and so I'll bring examples like that to the men and they go. It's that simple, isn't it I?

Angie Colee:

go.

Robb Munger:

I said there's some people that can drink. I said I can drink, um, and I can put it down. Um, you're not wantable and it's just. You know, got it. You enjoy drinking, but do you enjoy the after effects? I mean, I have guys that they've lost fingers, toes, legs, oh yeah, diabetes. The one things too. And I love people that are trying to help the homeless, but don't give them a donut and I'm a donut-holic in recovery but you know, they're out on the street and they get so many high-carb donuts and they drink and the sugar content and what happens to their diabetes? Most of them are diabetic, a high percentage. I don't know the exact percentage, so it's.

Robb Munger:

You know you have to know how to help people and so a lot of times I'll tell you know, like a volunteer or somebody that wants to help a homeless person, they say, hey, can you give me some coaching? And I ask them, ask the person, what they need, and the first thing is money. They're going to tell you to ask again, ask again. Okay, so you need money. So what do you need money for? So what are you going to do with that item that you're going to buy once? Once you get the item and all of a sudden, a relationship starts developing and then you get to find out what they really need or what their goal is, and then you can help them.

Robb Munger:

But and and I've I give money to the homeless. I have a few homeless guys I know that are, um, they're permanently mentally ill and they have some physical ailments and they're just they're. It's tough, so I'll give them money. Uh, there's other people. When I'm in different cities I will talk to them and I want to go upstream a bit and see can I help them more than just give them money. And I think we can do that for clients, for your for-profit, and everything is go upstream, ask another question, um, because so many times the answer is like three or four questions away and we like that snapchat, um, text message, two, three words, I got my answer. Or google search, I got my answer and I'm moving on. And I think that's where that relationship comes in and that's why I'm always pushing at Exodus places, relationship Cause the goal isn't just to give them housing. You know people say, well, just give them housing, I'll fix everything. That's the dumbest thing. There's so many failures in that whole system because people want a relationship.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up, because one of the many places I volunteered in my time I was at a crisis intervention center before the pandemic happened, and that's a mission that's really close to my heart, because there are a lot of people that are just kind of suffering under abuse, right, and they're afraid and they don't think they can get out and they don't even begin to know. I think one of the most impactful parts of my training as a volunteer for those crisis hotlines was the fact that we had a two-day training. It was very intense and one of the biggest takeaways that I had from that was I can't prescribe somebody else's fix because, no matter how many questions I ask them, I don't know everything that they know. I only know what they can tell me and sometimes, especially in that kind of situation, they can't tell me the truth. It would put them in danger, so anything that I'm recommending to them based on my limited worldview could actually endanger this person's life. I don't have a fix for them. They have a fix for them. I can help them find the fix, but, just like you talked about, this is us working together. This is a hand up, not a hand out.

Angie Colee:

So what can I do? What do you need? Do you need a place to stay tonight? Okay, let me make some phone calls, see if I can find you a bed. Do you need an escort to our building? Okay, let me see if I can call the police and get this figured out. What do you need from me? I need money. Okay, let me put you in touch with a couple of missions. But, like, what's what's going on? Why do you need money? Do you need a place to stay? Are you hungry? What's going on? Walk me through that.

Angie Colee:

Right, it was, and it ties back to this exercise that we did. We were all given envelopes with different slips of paper red, yellow and green and we all had different amounts of red, yellow and green papers and we were given a scenario and everybody had to make decisions that cost us little strips of paper, kind of like spending money and after a couple of moves, a lot of people are out of paper, they're out of options, they don't have anywhere else to go and there are still moves to be made and they're still in danger. And it just it changed my perspective of how much I judged other people for not knowing their situations. We've all got different capacities and different resources, and judgment is not the way to fix that.

Robb Munger:

Amen, I love it. I mean, I absolutely love it because that's the type of training that we work with people here, because I sat with a person when I was at the rescue mission. I had a very successful person come in, very kind, super kind guy. He was giving one of our homeless guys. He had just come in, he hadn't eaten in like probably five days, he was hooked on crack and what he did was he was using the money for his crack and feeding his kids and finally there was interventions. And finally there was interventions.

Robb Munger:

This guy's eating and this very successful person is telling this person that's basically starving what he needed to do to change his life. And I watched that and I'm like I understand the intent of the well-to-do individual, but that person that's in need was in a whole different spot and so what he was talking about it was like bringing a hammer when you need a screwdriver, and we have to ask them what tool do you need? You know, like I said, find out what they need and they'll figure it out. They'll say, hey, I need a screwdriver. Oh, okay, I was going to use a hammer, you know or a sledgehammer, and that's not what they need.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, I think that's the best thing that you can do for another human, whether that's a client, whether that's somebody that you're helping in this kind of charitable sense that we're talking about too, is to help them find solutions for themselves that make sense to them, not to prescribe them something that you think will fix them.

Robb Munger:

Oh, exactly.

Angie Colee:

It's like, even in marketing, when I have prescribed solutions to people I can tell now, in early days I just thought that they were like idiots. Like why did you hire me if you aren't going to do what I say? Because something I said isn't resonating with them, or I didn't communicate it well, or they've tried that before and they have some resistance and I didn't dig deep enough into that. But like there's a reason that they're saying no and they're experts in their own business, even though I'm an expert in marketing. Like okay, let's find another solution, we don't have to be married to mine.

Robb Munger:

Yeah, and really creative, cool things show up when you have that attitude.

Angie Colee:

Yes, yes, yes, oh my gosh. I want to ask like 50 more questions, but I want to be respectful of your time too. I know you've got a hard stop, so please tell us a little bit more where we can learn about you, about your mission, about your businesses, all the details.

Robb Munger:

Go to exodusplaceorg. That's our website. And then I have a personal website, robmungercom R-O-B-B-M-U-N-G-E-Rcom, just kind of tells people a little bit about what I do. I do some coaching, consulting for companies and individuals. I'm big into culture because, like here at Exodus, it's amazing. Because, like here at Exodus, it's amazing, we up until just a couple of weeks ago, we had not had any physical altercations for two years and so and it was just, it was actually a person we had put out and they came back and it was unfortunate. But I believe in culture. So I share with people of hey, if you want to help change your culture of your organization, get ahold of me. I love to help people that way. And then culture for us here recidivism rate, which is, you know, when a guy gets, we deal with only men here because of our bathroom situation, but when a person gets let go of prison release, they typically are back in prison almost 50% of the time and our rate for recidivism is at 1% right now.

Angie Colee:

Wow, oh, that's awesome.

Robb Munger:

So we're totally crushing it and it comes down to corporate culture, team culture, so I'm passionate on that.

Angie Colee:

Oh, I love that that shines through. I'm going to make sure that there are clickable links in the show notes so that everybody can check you out, and thank you so much for sharing this. This was such a. This is like a good conversation from my heart today. Thank you.

Robb Munger:

Perfect. Well, thank you, it was absolutely perfect. I appreciate everything. Well, thank you, it was absolutely perfect I appreciate everything.

Angie Colee:

That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick-ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high-octane dose of you Can Do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Permission to Kick-Ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, spotify and wherever you stream your podcasts. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.