Lisa Zeiderman (00:07.498)
Hey everyone, I'm Lisa Ziderman and I want to welcome you to the Savvy Ladies Power of the Ask, the podcast that helps you get what you want financially and personally. And I'm going to now kick it off to my co-host, Precious Williams.
Precious LaTonia Williams (00:23.891)
Hey, hey, hey everyone. As you know, we're back with the Power of the Ass podcast and we're always bringing in the best, most entertaining, educational and top guests. So today our guest is Melissa Norton, who is the executive director of Bottomless Closet. Bottomless Closet's mission is to be the connection that inspires and guides disadvantaged New York City women to enter the workforce and achieve success. Melissa joined Bottomless Closet as the executive director in 2016.
Her impressive resume working in the non-practice sector, as well as her background in law, make her the perfect champion to lead Bottomless Closet into the future. And now I would like Melissa to give us a little bit more of her background so that you know why she is one of our top guests and why we want to definitely ask her questions on the Power of the Ass podcast. Melissa?
Melissa Norden (01:17.294)
Thank you so much, Lisa and Precious. Really appreciate the introduction.
As Precious said, I'm Melissa Norden, Executive Director of Bottomless Closet. I've been with the organization about eight years now. My background is as an attorney working in the nonprofit sector pretty much my entire career. I started out at the Madison Square Garden Sharing for Children Foundation as the first employee of that organization and helped found it to help after school programs for children across New York City.
And then I was at the ASPCA for 13 years, where I was general counsel and chief of staff in the office of the president, overseeing the growth of the organization over a 13 year period, but they had been around over 140 years when I got there. So it was a time of tremendous growth from a national perspective. I got to do a lot of things beyond the legal space, helped to build operations. We had a number one TV show.
We had the pet food recall, the Michael Vick case, lots of things you may have heard of, and the Sarah McLachlan TV spots that made everybody cry for a very long time. So I oversaw all that programming. And I was a consultant for a few years, and then I came to Bottomless Closet. And as I said, I've been here eight years, and really have worked with an amazing number of incredible women over that time, getting them to enter the workforce.
Precious LaTonia Williams (02:22.077)
Hmm?
Melissa Norden (02:45.)
feel successful and empowered, and getting them all the tools they need to be successful.
Lisa Zeiderman (02:51.326)
That's so great, Melissa. So I really want to delve into the bottomless closet. Tell us about the bottomless closet, what it does, and what exactly your role is there in terms of helping it grow and helping the women that you serve.
Melissa Norden (03:06.868)
So I've been with the organization, as I said, eight years. And during that time, we really professionalized the organization. We've always been very grassroots in nature, very volunteer driven. But now we are all those things plus very professional. We work with women from across all five boroughs of New York City who need a little bit of help to get into the workforce. They're coming from all different kinds of backgrounds, whether they were in homeless shelters, domestic violence, victims groups.
groups that work with the formerly incarcerated, even the City College system. And they are trying to get on the path to self-sufficiency. And they need someone to show them how to do it. And to show them it can be done in a lot of cases as well. So we work with them. When they come to our office, we're located right across the street from the Empire State Building, very essentially located in the city. And when they come to our office, half the office is a boutique, fully stocked with clothing.
Precious LaTonia Williams (03:57.663)
Yeah.
Melissa Norden (04:04.732)
that has all been donated to us. And we want it to be an overwhelmingly positive experience. Many of the clients come to us after they've gone to many government agencies and think it's going to be a similar experience to those experiences, which are not usually positive. In those situations, the clients are treated like a number. They're not, their background, personality, all those things are not taken into account. And we want to make sure that when they come to us, they feel seen.
Precious LaTonia Williams (04:19.167)
Mm-mm.
Melissa Norden (04:32.184)
And so when they get to our office, they are usually like gasped when they walk out of the elevator because they see that it's such a positive, welcoming environment, very bright. Everybody's there to greet you with hugs and smiles. And we will start in the boutique to outfit them for their job interview. And one of the things I've made very important over the past several years is to make sure that our boutique is very inclusive. And in every definition of that word, we go from size double zero to size 32 in clothing.
Precious LaTonia Williams (04:40.007)
Yes.
Melissa Norden (05:01.)
size four to four, tuning shoes. We are more inclusive than any store in America. And it's not about the clothing, it's about how the clothing makes you feel. And the last thing you wanna see is coming to a space like ours in a boutique and not having your size. So starting right there, we make sure we have something for everybody. We also make sure it is very gender inclusive. So if people wanna dress more gender fluid, we have something for them. If you need maternity wear, we have a little something for you.
Precious LaTonia Williams (05:14.475)
Compto.
Melissa Norden (05:28.508)
If you want to dress more formally in a suit or more casually in just black pants and a clean button down, we have that as well. So it's very inclusive. And every client is paired one-on-one with a volunteer career coach who will handle the duration of their appointment. So our volunteers come from a lot of different walks of life. They are mostly retirees who've had various life experiences.
I think there's natural gravitation to our cause from the fashion and HR industries, but we've got everybody from all kinds of different industries. And they have some experience in going on job interviews themselves. So they know what is appropriate to wear and what isn't appropriate to wear. But the most important thing is the person is comfortable. If they're going for an interview in a fast food company, doesn't mean they can show up in jeans and a t-shirt, right? If they think that, you know,
a solid pair of pants and a shirt is fine, great. If they think they should wear a suit, we're gonna make that happen for them as well. We just give them the feedback based on our experience. So the volunteer will work to outfit the clients at the first appointment in two outfits. They have something for an interview and a callback, or if they spill something on their top that morning, they have a backup, we wanna make sure all bases are covered. And then, and then the same volunteer will work through the resume the client's brought in.
The resume can range from a couple of notes on a piece of paper to a perfect multi-page resume. It really is a wide variety of different layouts and experiences that our clients have too. The majority of our clients don't have a formal education. Majority of them are single moms. Many have been at home for a very long time. But many have done things while they've been home that give them a...
great experience to take on certain jobs. So, if they've been home taking care of a sick parent, they have great skills to be a home health aide, for example. So, if they've been in prison and they were a beautician in prison or they tended the grounds, they can put that on their resume. We want to make sure they have the information so that they have the best resume possible. And then we'll do coaching skills. You know, and it's everything from how to shake hands and make eye contact to how are we going to answer that question about having a prison record and do you know your rights on a job interview? So, we really try to make it...
Melissa Norden (07:46.012)
you know, as positive experience as possible, as comprehensive an experience as possible, so they feel as prepared as possible for their job interviews. And that's really the start of the relationship. From there, we hope you go on the interview and get the job, and if you get the job, you come back. There's a bell you ring up front and everybody stops and claps for you when you come back. It's a great empowering moment for the person ringing the bell, but it's even better sometimes for the people who are waiting out front for their appointment.
who might not have had a job in five, seven years, whatever it is. And they see someone from their community who's made it. So that can be very special. And we'll give them additional clothing to start their job. We'll give them three more outfits. They have a full week of clothing when they start their job. And we have another coaching appointment to deal with some of the tough issues of, you know, what's your childcare situation? What if your bus isn't running tomorrow? What's your plan on getting to work? Because you really want to make sure that you stay in your job. And the final piece of what we do is our workshop programming.
which is very comprehensive and has been very sustaining to many of our clients throughout the pandemic, especially. And so we cover financial management, professional development, digital literacy and personal enrichment. And the workshops are really open to anybody who is still job searching, as well as people who have their jobs already. So on financial management, we start very basic with intro to banking, through how to buy your first home and everything in between. We'll buy our clients their credit report.
Lisa Zeiderman(08:56.307)
Wow.
Melissa Norden (09:13.484)
We'll help them get out of debt, all those kinds of things. On professional development, it's things like how to do your LinkedIn profile, how to ask for a promotion or raise. Digital literacy, yes.
Precious LaTonia Williams (09:23.579)
Melissa, you dropping it like it's hot on us. We got some questions for you. We, listen, we didn't, listen, you giving us all the tea. Listen, you giving us all the tea. You know, we got some questions for you. We'd like to ask you because yes, we didn't her, we've heard some things. Lisa, I'ma, Lisa, I gotta go there. So we heard, so we heard from a little birdie.
Melissa Norden (09:27.73)
Yeah!
Melissa Norden (09:33.632)
He's giving you the overview. Ha ha ha.
Melissa Norden (09:44.665)
Okay.
Lisa Zeiderman (09:48.938)
Go for it.
Precious LaTonia Williams (09:52.543)
That's what we heard. That it's your 25th anniversary. Bottomless Closet has been around for 25 years. Congratulations! How does that feel?
Melissa Norden (09:58.05)
Yes.
Melissa Norden (10:01.992)
Thank you. Yes, it was awesome. It's a really big milestone for us. We rang the bell at NASDAQ back in January and Precious was actually there when we did it. It was a great moment. It was actually, it was better than I ever planned because when I reached out to people about showing up, it was such an amazing cross section of our community that showed up. You know, it was on a very short notice and we had 90 people show up. And they really, you know, range from
Lisa Zeiderman (10:02.175)
Yay.
Precious LaTonia Williams (10:29.704)
Yes.
Melissa Norden (10:31.376)
our founders, to our volunteers, to men who had worked on a film crew that had shot a video for us and really just loved the organization. So it really was everybody and it's very special. And we're doing several things to mark the milestone. We're obviously sharing a lot of content of all the milestones we've hit over the 25 years. We rang the NASDAQ bell, we've done a bunch of social media. And just today we actually released a video that Paramount produced with an overview about our work.
So.
Lisa Zeiderman (11:01.374)
Wow.
Precious LaTonia Williams (11:01.403)
Oh, you know we was about to ask about some of the special tea. Look like you dropping it now, okay? Okay.
Melissa Norden (11:08.819)
Yeah, so lots of fun stuff.
Lisa Zeiderman (11:09.355)
That's amazing. So now with all these things that you've done, it's almost, well, I'm going to ask it anyway. So I really want to know what inspired you, Melissa, to pursue nonprofit work as opposed to going into the, you know, into the sector and private practice. What actually inspired you?
Melissa Norden (11:29.916)
Well, I never actually wanted to go to law school and be a lawyer. Ha ha ha.
Lisa Zeiderman (11:34.31)
I don't, a lot of people would say that, but you did it. So then what happened?
Melissa Norden (11:37.661)
Yeah, well, I did it as a vehicle to get to, you know, work at a nonprofit. I've always wanted to work at a nonprofit. I've always actually wanted to do it for selfish reasons. I feel great when I help people. And that's a selfish but true answer. You know, it really feels great to be able to help people, to be able to, you know, take your experience and pay it forward.
Precious LaTonia Williams (11:38.802)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Norden (12:01.556)
to be able to point people to different resources that can help them they may not be aware of. I love connecting people with leads for jobs. I love helping people prepare to enter a new field, things like that. So I've worked in various different causes now as far as children's issues, animal welfare, women's issues, but I personally have been involved with my college, volunteering my time in.
the women's group, the non-profit group, the lawyers group, I just like doing that stuff. It's a feel good. So it's actually very selfish of me if you look at it that way, right? That I just enjoy doing it. And I feel like I get so much more out of it than I ever expected.
Precious LaTonia Williams (12:44.575)
So on here, you have three women who've attended law school. Three. I'm a former attorney. You have Melissa of Bottomless Closet and then Lisa. I'm just captivated by that alone and also the work of Bottomless Closet. So how does Bottomless Closet actually attract clients to it? What's the actual process? How do clients actually...
Melissa Norden (12:49.763)
Hahaha
I'm sorry.
Precious LaTonia Williams (13:11.263)
how are clients actually blessed to even come into Bottomless Closet?
Melissa Norden (13:15.092)
So that's actually changed a lot since COVID. Pre-COVID, 100% of our clients came from referral partners, like I mentioned earlier. So whether it be homeless shelters, domestic violence victims groups, the CUNY school system, et cetera, those channels were redeployed for other purposes during COVID, focusing on food insecurity, housing, all different kinds of things. And there weren't a lot of jobs out there. So we had to turn on other levers.
And so we went out to city council members, the mayor's office, to let them know about our services. But we also went back to all of our former clients and said, hey, COVID may have changed things for you. Do you need help? Come back to us. We also said, do your friends and family need help? We want to be there for as many people as could use the help. And then we also started having career fairs in our office. We were going to a lot of career fairs around the city where there's all kinds of jobs.
But many of our clients don't have the educational background for the average job at a career fair. And so we curated jobs through our corporate partners that we knew our clients would be eligible for. And we have had three now job fairs over the past year and a half or so. And so at this point, about 50% of our clients come through all those sources I mentioned, and the other 50% now are back to the referral agencies.
Lisa Zeiderman (14:38.086)
That's fabulous. You know, you get to see and this is part of I'm sure what inspired you to go into non for profit work You get to see the transformations of women who come through your doors every single day, right? Tell us for you what transformation that looks like what it means how it creates and it builds an optimistic approach to women and actually
for your other clients as well. You know, you talked about ringing the bell, which is amazing, and how maybe people who are waiting for their appointments are listening to that bell and thinking, that could be me. Tell us about transformation and what that means to you.
Melissa Norden (15:21.328)
Yeah, so we get the fortune of seeing it every day in our office. And for everybody, it looks a little different, right? For some people, it's getting the job. For some people, it's getting their first professional outfit. For some people, it's getting out of debt. It really looks so different. We have one client, just as an example, who actually left a job in banking. She was not a typical client. They thought she had a graduate degree in banking, and she left.
because she is transgender and went through her transformation and wanted to leave her job to do that and thought she'd have no problem going back. And then Banks went into a weird way the past couple of years with hiring freezes and stuff like that. And so she was out of work for quite a bit of time. And she walked in with a very negative attitude of, you know, I'm not getting these jobs because I went through this transformation and no one is seeing me for me. And I said, take that chip off your shoulder. You don't know that. That could be the case, but you don't know that.
And so if you're presenting this negative energy to me, I'm sure you're presenting it in your job interview as well. And so she went through the process of bottomless closet. She loved how he helped dress her. She actually did a couple of TV appearances for us. And she ultimately got a job with one of the biggest banks in New York without naming names. And the day she walked in, it was such a different person than the first time I met her, probably six to eight months earlier.
Because she took the feedback and she really applied it. And that is really what transforms people. When they're open to listening, when they hear it in a safe environment, when they see other people and what they've gone through and how, it looks so different for everybody. We have a client who escaped Ukraine last year and she has two graduate degrees. And I thought coming into our population.
Precious LaTonia Williams (17:02.707)
You really do.
Melissa Norden (17:12.072)
of clients without much education that she would not be a natural fit. And she has gotten along great with everybody and she has really been able to diversify what she, taking all of her experience and taking it to so many different paths. She's doing more things than I can count, more than precious, which is a lot. And so, and then the best spot to me is actually,
Precious LaTonia Williams (17:28.404)
HAHAHA
Lisa Zeiderman (17:29.637)
That's a lot. That's way too many. Ha ha.
Melissa Norden (17:37.844)
What I saw in the pandemic was actually sort of the most transformative, quite frankly, which is kind of weird to say because I saw nobody in person at that time. But what I saw was we were offering all of our workshops online, and we were offering them to a community where they have all come from challenged backgrounds, and they could have so easily fallen back to what got them to our doorsteps in the first place. And precious was there for this. We had our first graduation online in the pandemic.
Precious LaTonia Williams (17:43.356)
Yeah, I can believe it, yeah.
Melissa Norden (18:07.668)
And we had more graduates than we've ever had because our clients doubled down and got educated at a time where there weren't a lot of jobs. And they did that in a way that that's what made me feel the most special. That the dialogue box on Zoom changed so dramatically through the pandemic. It started with, you know, hey, Lisa, hey, Teresa, what's up to, how did you, you know, next, you know, fast forward six months later, oh, Jane, I saw you became an entrepreneur. How did you do that?
Or I heard you got this resource from this agency. How did you make that happen? Can you help me? And we built this sisterhood of women who felt conflict coming from all different backgrounds, but they kept referring to it as a sisterhood. And that's where the community we offer is what uplifts women the most.
Precious LaTonia Williams (18:57.979)
Now we know that the Bottomless Closet has had so many success stories, ringing the bell, women going through the program, graduating. Is there a particular story that you can share with us and our listeners about a client's journey that has impacted you the most?
Melissa Norden (19:15.464)
You know, I've been here eight years, but it's still someone from several years ago that I think about all the time. Her name is Rose. I don't know if you ever met her precious actually, but she came to us, she had been a home health aide actually, and she developed two serious illnesses not long after she emigrated here from Jamaica. And she came with no family, she came alone, she had a pretty good job, and these illnesses took her down.
and she ended up at a homeless shelter and in a wheelchair. And I can tell you that Rose was the first one that showed up for every single workshop we had in person. She was always full face of makeup, dressed beautifully, and to get around New York City with a wheelchair, it is no easy feat. And to be there early every time, she was there early. She graduated from both our professional development workshop series and our financial management workshop series.
And she ultimately got, she ultimately became a citizen during that time. And then she got a job working for the Veterans Administration and got housing. And I haven't seen Rosens before the Penn Note, but I think about her all the time because I'm like, she had so many obstacles thrown in her way. And she just found her community with us and showed up for herself because of the community we created for her.
And so that to me is still my favorite story, even though there's great news stories every single day.
Lisa Zeiderman (20:47.018)
That's amazing, Melissa. And I have to tell you, I find you so inspirational, but I'm just listening to you and I just, I'm in awe. I can't believe all the things that you do every day to help women, which is so amazing. How do you actually make sure that you're inspiring, and this shouldn't be that hard for you, but you still have to be kind of up and doing it, right? So how do you make sure that you're inspiring the women who come to you? What do you do? What's the secret sauce here?
Melissa Norden (21:13.96)
Yeah.
Well, I will tell you straight up, working in the nonprofit sector is not for the faint of heart. It is an exhausting grind, but you're here because you care. And that makes everything a lot, lot easier. And the reason that I bought almost closet is, I'm someone who lost their job. I lost my job. I was in a position where I never thought I would lose my job. And I know that, but for my education, that legal degree.
Precious LaTonia Williams (21:22.)
Nope.
Melissa Norden (21:46.332)
my savings and experience, I would have ended up as one of our clients. And during the time that I was laid off, I lost a lot of weight. And the first thing I did when I walked into Obama's closet was I saw we had four things in our boutique above a size 12. And I said, uh-uh, no, no. I know how hard it was to get professional clothing and how expensive it is. We're going to change this immediately. And I knew that, again, I had my
Precious LaTonia Williams (22:03.611)
Mmm.
Melissa Norden (22:14.816)
confidence dinged in a way I never expected to have it dinged. And so I knew that even with all those trappings that I just mentioned, I experienced that. So when I hear about the situations our clients are in, where they're a single mom in a homeless shelter who hasn't worked in several years and has an abusive significant other, how could I even consider that, you know, feel bad for myself, right? And so it makes my job easy in a way because
I love that I can pay my experience forward and I can relate to people. But when you hear someone lost their job and you go, oh, I'm sorry, I know how it feels. You don't unless you've been through it like anything else. And so when you can speak from experience, that makes all the difference.
Precious LaTonia Williams (22:55.688)
What?
Precious LaTonia Williams (23:02.359)
I, Melissa, you already know you're speaking to the choir. What I really love about Bottomless Closet, and you especially, is the story that you just told. Oftentimes when we hear about nonprofits, when we hear about nonprofits that focus on women, women in transition, there's almost like...
There's never speaking to the women who did have high power careers, who lost their jobs or fell on hard times or went through, you know, a devastating time and their stories are never told. So I'm so thankful that you shared that and also about being a full figured diva and a plus size fashionista and knowing, hey, there's only four things above a size 12. We got to remedy that we've got to remedy that. So so how does optimism
Melissa Norden (23:47.397)
Right.
Precious LaTonia Williams (23:52.243)
How do you bring that kind of optimism into bottomless closet? Like so many women are struggling. Like right now they were struggling four years ago. They were struggling 10 years ago. How do you bring that optimism in there and share it with the, with the women so that they know that things can change on a dime.
Melissa Norden (24:08.064)
Bye.
Right. I mean, like I said, once you've been through it, you know that there's light at the end of the tunnel. And even if you can give the clients hope that all these other successes you can have along the way to getting the job, whether it's graduating from our programs, whether it's getting some financial education for their kids so they don't repeat the cycle of poverty, whatever it is, celebrate those small victories because the larger victory is out there.
I have to remind myself sometimes about that. I have to deal, as the executive director, you have to deal with all this administrative work, and that's not my favorite part of the job, but it has to be done. And so I just, some days I will say, you know what? I'm putting down this contract for reading it today. I'm gonna go out there and help a client today. And it changes my day. And I wish I only had more time to do it because I would do it all day long. I'd love to be a volunteer in the future when I'm no longer working here when that day comes, but.
Yeah, I mean, if you see success around you, whatever that looks like, you're going to want to strive to be that person's, be your own kind of success story, the way that person's found their success.
Lisa Zeiderman (25:23.238)
Melissa, how do you think about optimism as it connects to self-worth?
Melissa Norden (25:32.689)
Well, if you don't see yourself in a way that is positive, don't have the confidence, don't have the self-worth, how is anybody else going to look at you? If you can't feel that about yourself, you can't express it. And so I've never been someone who's into clothing, quite frankly. I'm very tall, I mean plus I, it's never easy to get, I wear a size 14 shoe, it's not fun to go shopping.
Precious LaTonia Williams (25:55.861)
Ha ha!
Melissa Norden (25:59.688)
Right? But I know how when those things fit, how that makes me feel. I, when I got my first pair of like black, heels, boots, I literally sat down in the store and cried. It was the first time, I was probably like 35, 40 years old. But when you don't feel like you're seen, then you don't feel like I belong, you know? You dread getting dressed in any other example of the clothing. But when those women turn around and look in the mirror.
and they smile, that's everything. My favorite, some of my five favorite clients success stories are the clients who went in for the junior level position and came out with the manager's job. We can't control their educational background. We can't control their experience background, but we can control how they present themselves. And that can be a game changer.
Precious LaTonia Williams (26:50.259)
I totally agree. I used to be 327 pounds, a size 28 and I'm 5 foot 9. I recently attended Bottomless Closets plus size pop up and I can tell you when I walked through that door how amazing it felt to see all this beautiful designer, just beautiful earrings, clothes, coats and all sorts of things. I was like, wow.
I knew y'all cared, but it was something about, and I'm smaller now than I was back in the day. And I was like, everything is beautiful here. I forgot how nice it feels when someone cares enough about you to make sure that there is a special section that is dedicated to making you feel.
worthy and that helps in the job hunting process, job securing process, and how you show up on a daily basis. And having been a client of Bottomless Closet, I can say from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, when people see me today, part of that started with Bottomless Closet from you all providing me with clothes for my job interview to securing the job to still having some of those clothes today.
that I can still fit because they were well-made and they were designing their clothes. And I step out every day knowing that because some other people saw me as worthy, I step out and walk into rooms like I belong in every room that I'm in.
So thank you for championing women's self-worth, no matter what size they are, no matter what background that they come from, and that you all really do care. And it's not just lip service, it's real life. So I am thankful for the 25 years you all have been in existence. It's not just NASDAQ, it's not just those, it's the true stories of women who did not know that they mattered until they walked through the door, until they got the support, until they were in the programs, and having spoken at your graduation.
Melissa Norden (28:33.398)
Hehehe
Precious LaTonia Williams (28:48.463)
I can tell you I cried because I remembered who I was and who I am today. So I just wanna say congratulations.
Melissa Norden (28:56.616)
Thank you. And I didn't want to say Precious was my favorite success story, but that's the secret she is. Mm. Ha ha ha.
Precious LaTonia Williams (29:01.291)
I mean, it's all good. You know, I'm not, I'm not ashamed of my past. And I think when you expressed what you went through, women lose their jobs. We were in that tight day in time where women are losing their jobs, no matter how high up the food chain or how low on the food chain they are. And until they hear your story, they'll just think, Oh, y'all just saying nice things. It's like, no, we've gone through it and we had to be optimistic and it, all of this built our self worth, but it's queens like you.
It's your staff. It's the team that build up the self-esteem of women like me, that I can stand in place and be thankful and not ashamed of my past as part of it. But that's not the full story.
Melissa Norden (29:43.98)
And it's you sharing your story that inspires someone else to see that they can make it. And that's so important and why we share people's stories around the organization all the time because you may not see your path in me, you may see it in you. And so wherever you see it, find your ring and grab it.
Lisa Zeiderman (30:06.514)
Fabulous. No, and thank you, precious for sharing all of that today. That is what makes this podcast so amazing is, you know, the sharing that women are able to do about their personal past and inspiring others so that other women can move forward. Thank you so much for doing that. You're such a great co host and now I'm going to talk about now I'm going to talk about my favorite subject.
Precious LaTonia Williams (30:30.219)
Who is your queen?
Lisa Zeiderman(30:34.93)
which is money and finances for women. My favorite subject besides fashion, but money and finances. And so here's my question, Melissa, how does the importance of becoming self-sufficient and having that really great positive attitude toward money help women you work with advance and move forward?
Melissa Norden (30:37.474)
laughs
Melissa Norden (30:42.152)
Hehehe
Melissa Norden (31:00.88)
As I mentioned, we have a whole workshop string on financial management, and clients can actually graduate from that program and earn a certificate. So it's a really important program. And a lot of our clients come to us with quite a bit of debt. Many come to us having used check cashing places, giving away a portion of their paycheck. They come from communities where they're told not to use the banking system.
And so a lot of it is getting over all of those creaking, you know, preset experiences that they've had. And, you know, really getting started at a very basic level and understanding what you have and how you can get more of it too. And for our clients, it's so important to them to be role models for their children and not repeat the cycle of poverty, as I mentioned.
We actually offered a class this year specifically for women to come with their children to the class so that they really can understand finances together. The kids can appreciate what it means as being part of the household and the expenses, et cetera. And so for many of our clients, having that understanding and being able to build up savings gets them out of an abusive situation, gets them living on their own. It spells freedom.
Precious LaTonia Williams (32:00.874)
Ooh.
Lisa Zeiderman(32:01.386)
Love that.
Melissa Norden (32:25.244)
whatever that looks like for them. And so it is a critical part of what we do. Not everybody takes advantage of it. And the ones that do get so much out of it. And we offer those workshops free of charge on an ongoing basis. And if you wanna come and take into the banking five times, you are allowed to do that. So we wanna make sure it is crystal clear the information. You can ask questions, they're not gonna be judged.
We connect directly with different banking partners that we have and get really deep on some of these topics that can be really scary. And in general, even very highly educated women are not well-versed in these topics, as you all know, Lisa. And that's sort of surprising. We assume that just because they're in these positions of power that they have that experience. But most times women are not the...
Lisa Zeiderman(33:08.24)
Yes, we do.
Precious LaTonia Williams (33:09.404)
Mm-mm.
Melissa Norden (33:20.472)
ones who control the finances in their homes. And so, you know, we really have an opportunity to make an impact with our clients at a fairly young age. And hopefully that changes the trajectory of their lives.
Lisa Zeiderman(33:34.166)
Amazing.
Precious LaTonia Williams (33:35.135)
Well, I know for me, before I ask the question that we ask each and every one of our guests, and I always love Queen Lisa, money and finance.
Melissa Norden (33:43.767)
Hehehe
Precious LaTonia Williams (33:46.207)
Bottomless Closet, you're special to me, not just because of providing me with clothing and helping me secure the job that I had years ago, but you also provided me with my first speaking engagement out of homelessness. And you also introduced me to my first corporate client via Comm back in the day. And so...
That is why you're always going to be special to me because you believed in me whenever times I wanted to give up on myself. And that's why the power of the ass podcast powered by savvy ladies is so important because you saw something, you push me and now I negotiate like a boss when it comes to my contracts with my clients. So Melissa's our final question. Why is the power of the ask so important?
Melissa Norden (34:26.82)
Hehehehe
Precious LaTonia Williams (34:37.619)
to women, especially financially. And why is it so critical today?
Melissa Norden (34:44.212)
Well, everybody knows that at Bottomless Closet there's a saying I always say, you don't ask, you don't get. So, and that's with everything. I have no fear of being turned down for anything. I'm very good even just personally about asking for things to Bottomless Closet, not as good for myself. But if we need someone who has certain kind of background or we need someone to cut a check to fund something, worst you can do is tell me no.
Precious LaTonia Williams (35:02.916)
Hahaha!
Melissa Norden (35:13.716)
But I will always take the shot and do that. But I see just interestingly with myself that I don't ask as freely for me, even though I have this confidence and comfort with doing it for Bottomless Closet, because we're not brought up to ask for ourselves. And I think also when I was in certain positions in my career, I thought I'm just gonna do a good job and I'm gonna get rewarded for that. Didn't work that way.
And so we have to be advocates for ourselves because no one else is going to advocate for us, A, period, but B, no one's going to advocate as well for us as we will for ourselves.
Lisa Zeiderman (35:57.494)
100%.
Lisa Zeiderman(36:02.954)
Thank you so much, Melissa. It was great. It was a great conversation and you're amazing and we really thank you for appearing with us.
Melissa Norden (36:05.396)
My pleasure, thank you for having me.
Melissa Norden (36:16.461)
Thank you. I hope so.
