The Bone Doctor Himself: Dr. Cory Calendine, Orthopedic Surgeon

In this episode of the "So You Want to Work in Healthcare" podcast, the host interviews Dr. Cory Calendine, an orthopedic surgeon and influential figure in the field. Dr. Calendine shares his journey into healthcare and his passion for connecting with people. The episode takes place at a meeting attended by thousands of individuals in the industry. Tune in to gain insights into Dr. Calendine's motivations for becoming a doctor and how he overcomes the challenges of the medical field.

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Transcript

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Transcript: 

SPEAKER_00:
Welcome to the So You Want to Work in Healthcare podcast. Today I have the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Corey Calendine from Tennessee. He is a hip and knee surgeon and also quite the influencer with over 600,000 followers across his platform. So welcome, Corey.

SPEAKER_01:
Oh no, influencer. I don't know that I can claim that, but I've certainly enjoyed connecting to a lot of different people. So thank you for having me. I think this is super cool.

SPEAKER_00:
Awesome. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, it's been great. We're together at a meeting, obviously, in August. And so there's, well, we're here with, what, 4,800 other people. Is that the number? Great opportunity to sit down together.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, great. Thank you so much. This is awesome. I come to this meeting every year. I love this meeting.

SPEAKER_01:
It is good. It is good. I have to say that because I work on a committee that kind of takes care of the industry dollars to help pay for the meeting.

SPEAKER_00:
So I just have to say, hey, this is a really good meeting. It's a really good meeting. Everybody should come. Everyone in Ortho should come. Yeah. All right. So let's get right into it. I want to know why you went into health care. Why did you become a doctor? When was your first thought about it?

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, that's a great question. I'm still contemplating whether or not to work in healthcare. No, no, no, no. It's been a long passion for me. When I was very young, I wanted to be Stanley Steamer, the carpet cleaner, because there was a really cool commercial on TV. But at a very young age, I thought I wanted to do medicine. Now, I was influenced. I had an aunt that was a GI doc. Obviously, that's impactful. And I have two older brothers, both of whom went into medicine. My oldest brother's a pediatrician. My middle brother's a radiologist. So all through my childhood, I had this this draw to medicine and to be a physician. Now, in fairness, my dad was a cop and then a preacher, so that was kind of weird. And then my mom worked at Winn-Dixie for years and years, so there wasn't really medicine in my family. But there probably is something about my dad being a preacher that drew me to want to help people, as cheesy as that sounds. And it turns out that this is a field that you can do that it's kind of like That's our job to help people. So that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00:
Cool. I love that. Yeah. The fact that your dad, he was a cop and then a preacher.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. Talk about an odd mix. We lived in Naples, Florida. So everybody knows Naples, right? Big city now. But when I was a child, it was a small city and he was a vice cop. Now this is before Miami Vice. Are you too young?

SPEAKER_00:
No, I know Miami Vice. You've heard it on reruns or Naked Night. I've heard about it.

SPEAKER_01:
So this was before that. And he was an undercover vice cop. And what happened was his partner's identity became discovered. And one of the drug lords showed up to my dad's partner's house and roughed up his wife and kids. So the story goes. And so my dad found Jesus. And we moved to Tennessee, became a preacher. So fairly unusual career path, as you've mentioned properly. But yeah, that's how I got here.

SPEAKER_00:
But very interesting. Where did you go to med school?

SPEAKER_01:
I went to med school at University of Tennessee in Memphis. So when my dad had this transition, you know, cop to preacher, we moved to Knoxville, Tennessee. So I really grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee. And then med school was, was Memphis, which, or where the medical school is. It's the University of Tennessee, but it's in Memphis, not Knoxville. That's where all the college football is played, by the way. And then for orthopedic residency, I went to Vandy. So that's obviously in Nashville, Tennessee. So I've been in Tennessee for a really long time.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, Tennessee through and through. Was there anything you remember doing specifically to get into med school at that time? When did you go to med school?

SPEAKER_01:
Oh man, like, uh, in the, in the forties, I think, or something. Um, no. So I, I, uh, my undergrad was at freed Harbin university, a little private Christian college. And so I completed college in three years and I would like you, uh, to delete that from the podcast. Cause I, you know, that sounds really geeky, but I guess I didn't have a lot of friends. So I had time. So college in three years. And then I spent a year in research at the Cleveland clinic in Ohio of all places. And then I came back and went to med school. I actually finished college in three years and they said, hey, we think you're too young. And I said, yeah, but aren't my scores good? And yada yada, whatever my defense was at the time, they said, well, we really want you to mature. And so I did college in three years and then took a year in between to do this research. You know, nowadays that's so common in healthcare. I don't remember your story, but it's so common that people will kind of get through their undergraduate degree, do something else first. I was kind of forced to do that, but it turns out that was a pretty cool year for me.

SPEAKER_00:
I'm sure the research helped with your applications too. It probably did. Not that you needed it, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01:
Well, listen, I certainly was thinking that way. Like, what can I do to make sure I look more appealing the next round around, I guess is how you'd say that. But, but yeah, so I wanted to stay in medicine, but really that was my interest at that point. So it was, it was natural. I did the research on, I did some research on the pediatric, treatment of the common cold. You know those little zinc lozenges called coldies? Yeah. So there's a paper in JAMA, the Journal of American Medical Association, that has my name on it. I know. Zinc treatment for the common cold. Despite the fact that I'm an orthopedic surgeon, that doesn't have anything to do with it.

SPEAKER_00:
I mean, people swear by zinc.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, yeah. It helps a lot of people. What the pediatric study showed, and this is public knowledge of course, is it doesn't work in kids. Oh, okay. Sorry. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00:
Sorry. Sorry. No zinc for the kids, I guess. You can still use it. It's fine. I did research undergrad. I didn't take a year off. That's actually like my one, I wouldn't say regret, but something I wish I did was take a gap year between undergrad and PA school. But, I got to do research with this awesome PhD named Sylvia Fineman who did, she's like a leader in macular degeneration. Incredible. At Fordham University in the Bronx. So I got to work with her which was very cool. But I think that it definitely, it helped separate my application from the rest for sure.

SPEAKER_01:
Well, and that's absolutely right. And I was thinking about that in between my freshman and sophomore year of college. Now, rewinding a bit, I actually worked in a lab at the NIH, the National Institutes of Allergy Infectious Disease under a guy named, I don't know if you've heard of this guy, but under a guy named Fauci. Yeah. So Fauci's been there for like a hundred years.

SPEAKER_00:
Never heard of him.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. So Fauci and I were like, you know, tight. And this is like 91. And, and, you know, he, he did okay for himself. I mean, he's made a name over time. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. So med school was a full four years for you or did you complete that in three years too?

SPEAKER_01:
Wouldn't that be something? I would have wanted to, I'm sure. Like what is up with that? We're all rushing through, but no, obviously med school for me was four years. And, uh, then I, you know, I went into orthopedics. And the reality is, and you probably know this, but maybe some of your listeners would be interested. You have to decide like at some point, like what you're going to do when you grow up, right? Being a doctor is not enough, right? In fact, I went into medical school and I thought I was going to be a cardiologist. I had a mentor in high school and I actually received the Martin Luther King Jr. Community of Man and God Scholarship. So you can see I'm kind of like, You can see why I got that. No, it was, it was a gift all about altruism, right? This, this, the guy sponsoring it was a cardiologist who wanted to make sure that people were focused on that. And it was need based. So my dad was a preacher, so we were poor. And so it's a need based scholarship. So I was so impacted by him. But then when I got into medical school, I realized if you want to be a cardiologist, you have to go through internal medicine. And that really wasn't my jam. Not that it's not critically important to the health of so many, but because, uh, I'm inpatient and I have a little ADHD. So, so early on in, in med school, I realized I want to be a cutter, but, uh, meaning, you know, someone who operates, that's such a crude term, like,

SPEAKER_00:
 Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:
Cutter. Like you have to decide if you're going to be a cutter or not. So I wanted to be a cutter. And then I had to decide, well, what does that mean? General surgery, right? Orthopedics, they're surgeons, so many other types of, uh, of, of surgery. I actually had only had one week of orthopedic surgery before I applied to orthopedic surgery residency. So thankfully it all worked out. I really love it.

SPEAKER_00:
What did you see in that week?

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. I mean, the guys were cool and, uh, you know, there was good, good people to hang around there. There is a, I don't know how honest we want to be, but there is a personality that aligns with certain disciplines in medicine. And listen, this is probably true in everything in life, but, but for example, orthopedic surgeons have, you know, their own feel, maybe, you know, uh, who is it? Uh, uh, glock and Fleckham.

SPEAKER_00:
Did I say that right? Yeah, something like that. Absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_01:
He's hilarious. But he plays on these stereotypes and everybody's like, oh, that's so funny. Yeah, most of them are true. And so you're drawn to a certain group of people for whatever characteristics. So the guys were cool and you get to use power tools, which is awesome. And you can change people's lives is the truth of it. You know, all I do now is really hip and knee replacement. I know you do a lot of that. I mean, you have the ability to take someone who's truly disabled from arthritis and they think that this is kind of it for them. And you can show them, hey, there's an answer. There's a cure for this problem. It's kind of a cool thing to do.

SPEAKER_00:
It's very rewarding. As a job. Yeah. And orthopedic surgery now is one of the hardest, if not the hardest residency to get into. Was it that way back then?

SPEAKER_01:
That's what I tell everybody, that it's really hard. You have to be really smart. It was very competitive when I came through. The year that I matched, I think was the first year that we beat out dermatology for the most competitive. I guess they look at how many slots there are, how many people applied, this kind of thing. But it was very competitive. But interestingly, orthopedic guys We talked about those groupings. We're kind of known to be the dumb guys in surgery a little bit and I'm okay with that. I mean, it's okay. What do they say? Orthopedic surgeons twice as strong as an ox and half as smart or something like that? Oh, come on. Oh yeah. I haven't heard. Yeah. Thank you for your professionalism. No. Or like two orthopedic surgeons looking at an EKG.

SPEAKER_00:
Yes, definitely. A double blind study.

SPEAKER_01:
So there are thousands of them, but uh, we, we, we get so narrowed in medicine and you know, I kind of know hip and knee replacement reasonably well. I want to serve my patients and there's this anxiety that man, I better stay up to date and do the right thing because every patient, you know, it's not on a scale, it's, It's down to each and every patient needs the perfect outcome for their life. And so there's all this pressure to get your part of that healthcare window right. And that's what I think so cool about this podcast is I know you're going to have me knuckle dragger, you know, kind of a dumb guy on here, but then you're going to look at all other fields of medicine. And even as an orthopedic surgeon, I mean, there's so many other people that serve my patients for the same goal. It's just, it's cool to be a part of in healthcare.

SPEAKER_00:
It really is. I mean, I love ortho and it's, it's a vibe, you know, it's a vibe. And I think we all feel it when we go into it. And I don't know if it's because most of the surgeries are elective and it's very hands on. And like you said, you get to use power tools, which I love. But yeah, it's, it's just a kind of a fun vibe.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, I think that's totally true. You know, and obviously this could be regional. I mean, we had some general surgery guys when I was in training and they were kind of angry, you know, and tired guys. And, and I don't know that that's universal, but those guys, listen, general surgeons work so hard, but you know, I was trained in a time, you know, like we said, back in the forties a long time ago. Um, and you know, surgeon behavior was also tolerated a little bit more than it is now. So, I was exposed to some surgeons that, due to the stress of their job, they would occasionally throw sharp things at people or in their direction. I don't encourage that.

SPEAKER_00:
We don't encourage that.

SPEAKER_01:
Thankfully, we've evolved where this really is not and should not be happening in healthcare. It is about where you are and what you've been exposed to for sure.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So what made you want to go into arthroplasty or hip and knee replacements?

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. So I like the elective nature of it. So yeah, hip and knee replacement for me, you know, you schedule it kind of thing. There's not a lot of emergencies. I actually really like orthopedic trauma, but the problem is, I don't know if you've noticed this, but people get hurt at like any time of the day. In fact, often at night.

SPEAKER_00:
Often in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01:
Yes. And so that's such a calling that you can be available around the clock. So the quality of life or the ability to build your life around orthopedic trauma, for example, is a little bit more challenging. So hip and knee replacement is a more elective posture for sure. They looked at surgical procedures and of all the surgical procedures, I'm not talking about orthopedics, I mean in all of medicine, all the surgical procedures that are able to return the quality of life years back to the patient. Number one is actually cataracts.

SPEAKER_00:
I know.

SPEAKER_01:
I don't like to be not number one, but that's the truth. The most valuable surgery to return quality life years back to the patient is cataract surgery. You literally take somebody that's nearly blind and they can see. You can see why that would be incredibly powerful. Total hip is number two.

SPEAKER_00:
So hip replacement works and works well.

SPEAKER_01:
And I want to say total knee was like three or four, let's call it three. But hip and knee replacement works. It cures the underlying problem. People do really, really well. And that's something just amazing to like show up every day. You know, unfortunately, as you talk about on your podcast, you know, there's so many different roles. The doctors get, the surgeons, the orthopedic surgeons is what we're talking about, get so much credit for hip and knee replacement and the success of it. But listen, We are one piece in a much larger puzzle. I mean, I have a wonderful PA like you. It's such a valuable thing that educate and counsel patients through the process, nurses, the therapy. I always tell people, look, you could have perfect surgery, whatever it is, hip and knee replacement or something else. If you don't have perfect therapy for some of these orthopedic surgeons, you're in trouble. And so physical therapy is so important. There are just so many things that go into patient success that's not the surgeon. And unfortunately, I think we get too much credit.

SPEAKER_00:
The medical clearing doctors too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, that's exactly right. Keep the patient safe first. Do no harm, right? These guys we hadn't even talked about yet. What in the world?

SPEAKER_00:
But I would probably give the surgeon was still a lot of credit.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. I mean, listen, I hope so. Like I try really hard. My mom's really proud. Um, you know, but, but really without the other critical elements, like that, we just wouldn't see the successes that we do.

SPEAKER_00:
Right. And you specialize in anterior hip replacements, right? Yeah. I'm familiar with that because that's what my boss specializes in as well.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. So, I mean, there's a lot of different ways. You know, some people are like, I don't want a total hip replacement. I want that anterior hip replacement. You know, as you know, anterior hip replacement is just another way to get there. The parts are largely the same, but back to what we were talking about earlier, there's this healthy weight, this healthy burden that you want to do the best you can for the next patient. There are techniques like posterior approach, which is a very great way to do a hip replacement. that we have can be trusted and relied upon. But with an anterior approach, there's less restrictions. I don't know what you guys do, but we give them or we tell them to avoid the extremes of motion. So there's not those limitations in motion early on. We found that if you go between two muscles instead of releasing some of the most muscles in the back, they have less pain, a little faster recovery. So it's that constant pursuit to getting better and better. So anterior hip has been great for my patients.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, our patients love it. And, you know, I mean, the precaution thing, I think, is the biggest perk. The lack of precautions or not needing precautions, really. We don't give our patients any real precautions, like positional at least. But now there's also like the STAR approach, posterior right, where they're not, I mean, at least the surgeons at my hospital aren't giving precautions anymore. So, it'll be interesting to see the data that comes out. I think still, it's still within the first six weeks, there's a quicker recovery for the anterior approach and then at six weeks, it's about the same. Is that right or has that changed?

SPEAKER_01:
No, I think that's right. I, you know, there, there is, there are champions for the interior approach and there's a lot of marketing. You guys who are just absorb, you know, being exposed to all the consumer marketing, there's a lot of marketing around it. So some things get said that are simply, you know, an exaggeration, the truth maybe, or just a good faith, um, statement that doesn't have full evidence, right? So there are things out there, guys, be careful for sure. But what I've found in my practice, like, I know how I do a posterior approach, I know how I do an anterior approach, and when I compare my individual patients, they just have less pain and faster recovery. But ultimately, when they're recovered, yeah, I think you should expect no difference.

SPEAKER_00:
Right, right. Well, either way, it's a cool surgery. I love doing this. Super cool.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. Do y'all do it on a table?

SPEAKER_00:
You know, like I was just going to ask you this. I mostly, I know this is getting a little specific, but, um, no, we don't, we use, we don't use the Hannah table.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. So the Hannah table is the one that I use. And the reason why I mentioned it is because it looks like a, you know, like a, you're putting a patient up on like a spit, you know, one of those things over the fire or something. We're really careful though. Just curious.

SPEAKER_00:
Sorry. No, I mean, I had to set a case up for another surgeon the other day with the Hannah table. It's cool. Yeah?

SPEAKER_01:
Are you nervous?

SPEAKER_00:
It's more work. Yes. It's a lot more work. I guess I'm just, you know, we've been doing it off table forever. So I am partial to not using the HANA table.

SPEAKER_01:
I think the biggest issue is you kind of do it the way you were trained, right? So you're used to doing it without a specialty table. So why would you change? I trained with the HANA table and it just never left. So it probably doesn't matter, but I don't want you to take my table. But but Steve Carell actually is a great comedy skit. Y'all should y'all should look it up He he apparently had a total hip. I did not know it. This is public knowledge. I have no I've never met the guy I did not operate on him full disclosure But he talks about being wheeled into the operating room and seeing this table this like I think he claims It was a torture device. That's not true. And so It can be overwhelming but these are these are tools that we use in order to execute the surgery

SPEAKER_00:
 And I think most anterior, I would say the majority of anterior hip surgeons probably use it.

SPEAKER_01:
I think that's right. I mean, the ones that I've talked to and asked that specific question, it's the same surgery, but yeah, I think most are using it.

SPEAKER_00:
 And so would total hip be your favorite surgery to perform or do you have another favorite?

SPEAKER_01:
Oh, that's a good question. You know, probably in life, my favorite procedure of all time is a distal radius bowler plating.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:
The FCR approach. I haven't done that in 10 years. Like keep that in mind. But the anatomy is just so amazing. And maybe, maybe absence makes the heart grow fonder. You know, I don't really do trauma anymore, but, uh, you know, and that's kind of why I like trauma. You could operate all over the body, but yeah, of the things that I do now, Yeah, I think that's right. Anterior hip would be my favorite procedure.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, and the outcome is so great. For most people, it's life-changing and they're happy so fast.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, it is so cool. And you know, the hip joint is truly a ball and socket, the knee's a little bit more complicated, so I think you do a lot of knees too. That's a little bit of a longer recovery and a little bit of a harder, you know, forget that you had a surgery kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:
And you were saying before, physical therapy is super important after a knee.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, so key. Do you send your hips to formal therapy or what do you guys do?

SPEAKER_00:
We give them the prescription to go outpatient. Most people go. Some people don't.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's fine. Like, I mean, I did that for years, but now I've kind of flipped and I say, hey, these are some exercises. Go home and walk. And most end up not going to therapy now. It's just interesting.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, it is interesting. What do you love about being an orthopedic surgeon?

SPEAKER_01:
Oh man, there's a lot. I really don't have trouble getting up in the morning. This job is pretty cool for a lot of different reasons. I'm so thankful and appreciative of the respect that the field gets. It kind of gives you that confidence that you're contributing. But for me, it's all about that one patient. Listen, this is a hard business that we're in and complications exist and sometimes you can prevent them and you can learn from them. That's just the truth of it. But sometimes complications exist and we don't know why. And that's a really, man, for me, I take that stuff home with me. And I think I should. I think if there comes a point where a patient doesn't have the perfect outcome and I don't think about it, I think I just quit. But the flip side of that and what I love the most about orthopedics, is the ability to help that one person. I hear about it all the time. I could hang out with my grandchild or I went on this Disney trip. Now, why would you ever want to go to Disney? I'm not sure. We love Disney. It's just very challenging. But you can get them back to the life that they want. It's not about, I don't know, I don't want to go to Disney. But for that grandma or that mom, people are so much younger now for hip and knee replacement. They're trying to get them back to their life. So that's what I love the most. No question is getting people back to the life that they want, which is so cool. And they're so generous to share that story. Maybe that's one of the cool things about social media is they just share it. You know, golly, that's boy, that, that makes it easy to get up. But listen, what I don't like about it is it is the documentation, like the EMR, right?

SPEAKER_00:
Isn't that what I'm supposed to say? I mean, yeah, it's true. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. And it just, it gets more and more and more every year. I feel like there's something new we have to do in addition to everything else.

SPEAKER_01:
So yeah. And look, there's a lot of good in trying to standardize care. And obviously we need to document what we do. And unfortunately there are people in medicine, we all know these stories, that have not documented and done care that wasn't needed. You know, there are very few bad actors, but there are regulations in place that get applied across the board. And people in good faith trying to do the right thing get burdened with the paperwork. I think if we're not careful, that level of paperwork is going to limit access to care. And in fact, many studies that show that it already has. I mean, because the work has to get done. And most of us, we want to do what's right. And so you want to do that. But there are some cool advances, like now I have a scribe. Do y'all do you scribe?

SPEAKER_00:
No, but I wish. That's great that you have a scribe.

SPEAKER_01:
It's changed my life. I mean, maybe my soul. And so essentially, when I'm in clinic, I just walk around and talk, kind of like this. And then somebody writes it down. And I go back and review it, of course. But that's really changed my life. So I think there are ways that we can make that burden a little easier. There are some cool platforms now. Are you doing like dictation, like with AI or something?

SPEAKER_00:
We used to do dictations, but I prefer just templates on the computer. And then I added my own little things there, here and there, but no AI yet.

SPEAKER_01:
AI scares me a little. Yeah, I get that. I get that. But you know, there are many systems now that like listen into your clinic visit, like just like you and I are talking. And then it creates a note. Wow. Which is a, well, I'm with you. Like, that sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_00:
Wow.

SPEAKER_01:
That's cool, but crazy. And crazy. Yeah. So I'm not totally sure how I feel about that, but for now the scribe, the person with me in the room is super helpful.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, scribes are great. I should probably interview one. That's, I'm going to put that on my list.

SPEAKER_01:
Oh, listen, they're an important role. You know, the, the challenge with them is they're all going to something else. They're all going to be one day or me or something. You know, they're going into another field. They use it as a stepstone. We were talking about the research, they're getting exposure in healthcare. It's another great way to bulk up your application of course. And so they're, they're, they're, they're being ascribed to do that.

SPEAKER_00:
We don't love the paperwork, but other than that, it's pretty, it seems like a pretty great gig.

SPEAKER_01:
It's pretty amazing. I'm so thankful, you know, I, uh, you know, for as much as I'm out there on social, I don't want you to know how sensitive I am, but kind of a sensitive guy. Like, you know, it really is one of those things that if I think about. you know, how I get to do this every day. Like, this is like, this is the job. Like, you gotta get up and you gotta go help somebody. Like, that's the job.

SPEAKER_00:
And like, everybody- Do you ever get tired? I mean, I feel like it's- Tired. For us, it's, you know, I'm at a hospital where it's very, very busy. Yes. So, we're always going, going, going. And sometimes I don't know how these surgeons do it, with the hours they're putting in and with families. How do you deal with your work-life balance being a surgeon?

SPEAKER_01:
It's tough, obviously. And listen, not just as a surgeon, right? For any of us in professional life, we're trying to figure out. For me, the balance word is always a little tricky because it leaves you with the impression that every day is going to be balanced. It's just not reasonable in medicine to have that kind of acuity to the balance. For me, the only thing I know to tell you is I try to go all in wherever I am. That this pocket, this is what I got going on right now. And if I'm in surgery, this, that's what I have going on right now. Right. But, but the trick is, and this is where I struggled early in my practice when I was home, I wasn't home. Right. I mean, I was, you know, I was still thinking about work and, you know, try to compartmentalize it. It makes you better where you are. Right. So better in surgery, better doing your paperwork. you know, obviously better with your family, it makes you better. And then you have to just be real honest with yourself at the end of the month or however you want to calculate it, the end of the week. Man, am I really living the life that I want? And if you can say that, if you can say that, like, yeah, I don't know how balance of time or all that, but I think you can balance intensity. And if you get to the end of the month and you say, boy, this is, this is the right thing for me. Then you can say, Hey, you know, that'll help sustain you. Burnout is a real problem and healthcare workers are getting overworked and everybody has their bad days. I just have no desire to paint some rosy picture for you. Like, yeah, of course, of course I get tired. I'm not going to confess it in the moment, but now on a podcast when I'm well rested, I'll tell you the truth. Um, you know, look, you just got to get the work done, but you also have to discipline yourself to review your own life on some frequency and say, Is this really fulfilling and if it's fulfilling then you can sustain it and if it's not fulfilling make those changes, right?

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I think make those making those changes can be tough, but I think Today in this day and age, I think it's more People are focusing on that a little bit more which which is great. Yeah, do you have any regrets anything you would do differently? Hmm In your path to becoming a surgeon or I don't know, anything.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. I mean, there were some college dates that I, I mean, is that what we're talking about? I mean, how far back are we going? Like you said, be honest. Yeah. I mean, regrets. I'm trying to think of how to answer that. I mean, I've been so fortunate. I mentioned I had one week of orthopedic surgery. before I said, Oh, I want to do orthopedics for the rest of my life. And you know how that match works. Like you match into a five year program and the first year you don't really do orthopedics. Dude, I am deep into the program before I even do orthopedics. So thankfully I don't regret that. I've, I've had, friends that matched into ortho, in fact, and then ended up backing out and said, you know, that's not for me in their second year and then doing emergency room. So, you know, good for them for calling it early. But I don't, I don't think I have regrets. I mean, could I have done things better? Of course. Like, yeah, sure. But somehow the path has been, I don't think I've had any backstep, like the path has led me where it's led me. And, uh, you know, for that, for that, I'm thankful. You know, I made the just ridiculous joke that I'm probably going to pay for, uh, about, you know, picking the wrong dates or something like that. Um, but, but man, that's something I did right. You know, my, my, my wife is so supportive. She's a, that's amazing. She's, she's a pharmacist. She has her doctorate in pharmacy. And so when we got married, I was in residency and she, she's in pharmacy. So I know a little bit about that. If you have any questions, um, So, anyway, but when we had our first child, you know, she retired. That's nice. But it's worked for us, right? It's worked for us and she's been so supportive. That's made that work-life balance that we were talking about earlier a lot easier. We're working around one professional schedule and when maybe as a surgeon, particularly when I'm on call, those hours are a little bit less reliable. We've only had to deal with one schedule. That's obviously been a very wonderful thing for our relationship. I mean, my wife and I is that, that we don't have that extra stress, I guess. Um, but it's worked for us. I don't know how, you know, people do families with, with both working. So, I mean, just take such a, such powerful communication between your spouse and you and you know, that careful time scheduling and, It's amazing that people do that, and that's the norm. That's the norm, and so I'm just so respectful of people who are able to do that.

SPEAKER_00:
That's great. All right, only a couple more questions. I know you have to go. We don't have to talk about this, but I know that you spoke about it publicly, kind of. You had a recent health situation. Do you want to talk about that or no?

SPEAKER_01:
the health. I'm just kidding. You're so sweet. No, I'm glad. I'm glad to talk about it. And you know, if there's questions, um, I guess none of us want to be defined by our health challenges and who, who knows like what people are dealing with. And I think that was the point. That's why I spoke to it because who knows how, how other people, what other people are going through and how they're dealing with things unless you mention it. So yes, absolutely. Uh, uh, maybe a year and a half ago I found out that I have leukemia. Now, the type of leukemia that I have is called chronic myeloid leukemia. And by the way, it's totally treatable. So my recommendation for your audience, don't have leukemia. I don't know if we can put that at the bottom or something. I mean, I'd rather not have it. But if you're going to have leukemia, this is a good one. It's not the worst one to have. It's not the word. It's fully treatable. You know, I, I actually connected, you know, I didn't tell anybody for six months and, and part of that was twofold. One is I knew that I was a little bit out there, like people were, you know, people would see me post and whatever. So I knew it was a little bit out there and I wanted to see if I could trick everybody. Like I wanted to see if anybody would call me out. Hey, he looks tired. Hey, he looks pale.

SPEAKER_00:
I did not notice anything. Nice.

SPEAKER_01:
Thank you for saying that. Um, so I think I tricked everybody. No, nobody seemed to suggest it to me. So that was cool for me. Uh, but ultimately the, the treatment is a pill once a day. I have never stopped. I've never had to stop. I continue, you know, what I think is a busy schedule. There are probably a lot of people doing a lot more than me. But when I was diagnosed, I reached out to a lot of guys. One guy was Mel Mann. He was the first guy on the pill that I'm talking about, the tyrosine kinase inhibitors. He was part of the study, the research study. Talk about different fields of medicine that are important, researchers. And so he was on one of the first studies or the first study at MD Anderson for Gleevec, which is the first tyrosine kinase inhibitor. So he was diagnosed with CML, this is maybe 27, 28 years ago, and he was given three years to live.

SPEAKER_00:
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:
The survival rate, and I'd have to look it up, we'll check it for the podcast, but he was given three years to live with a mortality at three years of like 95%. What? For CML.

SPEAKER_00:
Wow.

SPEAKER_01:
That's like 27, 28 years ago. And well now the 10 year survival, no, not three year, but the 10 year survivor ship for CML is like 96% something crazy. So it's completely flipped and you know, we, we will all die not to be too morbid, but I'll probably die something else.

SPEAKER_00:
And um, so listen, thank you for asking. Thank you for sharing. No, I, I think it's so amazing that you're able to keep your schedule and do what you do and come to these meetings and be on social media and like the, I think it takes a lot of strength to talk about it on social media.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, listen, there, there, there's, there's, there's power in kind of sharing our story and I think that's kind of what social is. I hope that's what your podcast is meant for. Like we just need to share our stories. We all have this and it's tempting to think that you see somebody, uh, that's successful and you think, ah man, they got really lucky and everything must be going their way. And it's, it's probably never true. Like it's never true. And why is that important that you know that I have overcome CML? That's not the point. The point is when you get diagnosed with leukemia or when your friend gets diagnosed with leukemia or God forbid your child get diagnosed, there's still hope.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, there's still hope. Last question and it's an important one. I need to know your best piece of advice or pieces of advice for a student who might want to go into medicine or even become an orthopedic surgeon.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. Oh, that's good. Um, I, I w I was already trying to answer the question before you finished. Cause I'm a surgeon, like I'm in a hurry for no apparent reason. Um, but you know, I, I think the best piece of advice in life is what, what some people may hear me say is something around, you know, savor life to the bone, you know, like drinking every moment. I think that's so critical. But I'm not sure the advice for a medical student is any different. Just soak up exactly where you are. When people come to me and they say, hey, I'm thinking about doing medicine, sometimes as a test, I'll just say, don't do it. And just let it sit there. Silence. Because here's the reality is, is it's a long road. You know, I was like 33 before I got my first real job and somehow my parents are still proud of me, which is cool. Um, but that's, there's not a lot of fields that you can do that. Like most of your all's parents out there want you to have a job, a real job before 33. So, Anyway, somehow I was able to pull that off. But yeah, it's a long road. And the reality is there's all this griping about what we were talking about earlier, like documentation and reimbursements are going down and the stress and the burnout rates. These are all real things. But the reality is if you love what you do, all of that fades away. So if you can find something that you truly believe in, and if that's medicine for you, my goodness. You know, I have two kids. I don't know if we've talked about this, but I have two little kids. And listen, let me be clear about orthopedic surgery. It is obviously the best profession in the world.

SPEAKER_00:
Obviously.

SPEAKER_01:
And everybody should do it.

SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:
But but in truthful, I mean, it's the only one I could do that's what that's what I mean It's I'm built for this man. Like this is what I want to do This is this is this is where I need to spend my time But I live in fear that my kids might go into medicine not because I don't think it's the best job ever because I'm convinced it is but Um, but it's because I would only want them to go into it if they had that same fire. So, so best advice for anybody going into medicine, make sure you have the fire for what you want to do because it's a long road. It's totally worth it. But it's a long road, so just make sure it's your passion. Short of that, what are some of the granular things? Man, get exposure as best you can. I wish I would have hung out with more surgeons and orthopedic guys. I just wish I would have had more exposure. I think the temptation there is you want just the right exposure. These people are so much smarter now than I was. They're type A, they're driven. Um, but the reality is, is any exposure is better. Like you, you think you want to be a surgeon. Great. Uh, try to hang out with a nurse. You think you want to be a nurse. Great. Try to hang out with a PA. Uh, you, you want to be a PA. Great. Try to hang out with, uh, I don't know, what would it be? Somebody else, you know, and, and, you know, like challenge yourself to really define any, and as you well know, when you're a little bit different for me. So I'm an orthopedic guy. Like all I do is hip and knee replacement. Like I'm not of much value by the way. If people say, if you're on a plane and, and I'm on the plane with you and somebody has a medical emergency, like do not tell them that, you know, I'm a doctor, like this is not helpful. I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I want to help. I'm willing to help. I'm of no value on a plane.

SPEAKER_00:
We will try to help.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. Well, well, listen, well, my point was going to be, look, you're way more valuable, way more valuable than I am. You know, PAs can, you know, kind of float if they want, if they want, can float between many disciplines. But, man, surgeons, like, we're really kind of a narrow focus guy. So take that into account, too. If you want to be a PA, great, but what does that mean? Like, you could be a surgical orthopedic PA, you could be in urgent care, you could be, well, you know, you could do anything in medicine, right?

SPEAKER_00:
You could do it.

SPEAKER_01:
And so there are those jobs too that I would take a long look at now. Hey, what are those jobs that if I'm not totally sure, what are those jobs that are flexible down the road? Look at what a nurse can do, right? I mean, they're in clinic, they're in the hospital, so many different jobs. They could do consulting stuff. They could do anything.

SPEAKER_00:
 Yeah, lots of versatility.

SPEAKER_01:
So anyway, lots of versatility. I would say if you love it, none of that matters. And get as much exposure as you can. Real life exposure is what I mean. Yeah, there's a way to pad up your resume, but just focus on making sure you end up in life where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I love it. I shadowed a few surgeons before I shadowed PAs, so I did both because I wasn't sure what I was going to do, if I was going to do med school or PA school, and I chose PA. But honestly, I think it is all about what you love and what you're passionate about. And what do they say? If you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Yeah, I don't think that's true. I don't know if it's totally true.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, no, I was thinking the same way. It makes it easier.

SPEAKER_00:
It definitely makes it easier if you love what you do. But awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01:
I'm not totally sure how I could possibly possibly have gotten picked to be with you, but I'm so thankful. Obviously, I love what you're doing. I love your availability to so many people you share so openly, which is awesome. And we all benefit from that. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00:
Thank you. This is great. Awesome. Yeah.