Whaddaya hear, whaddaya say? Welcome to episode 8 of the Career Consigliere podcast, your no frills, no BS forum for navigating the corporate job scene. Jimmy with you, for what we hope to be a highly informative and engaging half an hour, or so! Today, we’re going to focus on the absolutely essential, yet often overlooked and taken WAY -too-lightly portion of the job interview process: the phone screen. We’re going to cover what it’s all about, what to expect during it, and how you should handle it. I’ll tell you some tales of phone screens I’ve been through personally, and give you some real-world wisdom you can use, despite what the uneducated masses tell you – you know me by now. Lots to cover today, so if you’re ready podcast land, letttsssss get it!
We’ve all been through it: the endless slog of applying to job after job on the job boards, company websites, Linked-In easy apply, mailing letters, sending carrier pigeons on a mission, however you’ve been going about it. We’ve talked all about the numbers game that applying for a job has become, but today we’re getting into what happens once we’ve “won” the game. And by that I mean, a recruiter or some other talent acquisition representative from said company contacts us and wants to TALK! This is often the first time we communicate with a breathing human during the job application process, and all of a sudden it starts feeling very real.
So what’s the phone screen all about? Quite honestly, here’s all they’re really looking for is this. They want to know....
1. That you have a pulse
2. That you are who you say you are
3. That you can communicate like a human and act reasonably professional for 15-30 minutes (which is actually the average duration of a phone screen, according to LOTS of data).
4. That you experience is, at least tangentially, aligned with the scope of the role
5. And most importantly, above all else, all other things being equal, that they can afford you
And that’s it guys. Here’s how it works. It’s almost always with a recruiter of some kind, sometimes they’re internal and actually work for the company, and other times they’re third-party recruiters who work for other agencies. But either way it plays out, the process for you doesn’t change. No two phone interviews are exactly the same, but from everything I’ve seen for myself and heard, it goes a little something like this:
- The interviewer gives you a very brief overview of the job
- They ask you to walk them through your experience
- They’ll hit you with usually 2-3 specific questions about your experience. Sometimes they’re scenario-based “tell me about a time when”, and sometimes they’re not.
- They give you the opportunity to ask questions
- They ask what your salary expectations are, usually towards the end
A word of warning here. Lots of times the interviewer, whether they actually work for the company or not, doesn’t really know much about the role or the company. Think about it: they spend their entire day trying to source people to come work for the company. And especially in large corporations, how could they possibly be an expert on every single open role? They may or may not even know the hiring manager personally. I remember years back I worked for a HUGE financial services firm, and during my interviews I remember bringing up “Zach”, the recruiter. And the blank looks I got from my future team members were priceless: they had no clue who Mr. Zach was. And this is not uncommon, so just because you’re dealing with live humans, don’t expect the process to be personal at all. And gets more and more robotic and meat-grinderish the bigger and more complex the company is too, so keep that in your purview.
All this can be good and bad. It’s good, because all the factors at play here make this BY FAR the easiest of all the interviews you’ll go through. You’re talking to a person that’s spread INCREDIBLY thin, and they’re usually not an expert in the subject matter, so the questions you’ll get are usually pretty straightforward and surface-level. And while you should still come prepared (we’ll get to this later), usually the phone screen won’t stress you out too much. However, if you ask me, one of the big drawbacks I’ve found with phone screens is that dealing with recruiters can give you a false reading of what the company is actually like. This is especially true of in-house TA people. Talent acquisition involves dealing with...... people! And what kind of people are good with people? No, not the guy from Office Space “I’m a people person, can’t you see that? What the hell is wrong with you people??!!” Usually, they’re the happy, bubbly, upbeat, vivacious, social butterfly types, that usually aren’t bad looking either (this becomes very obvious when you’re doing a video chat). I’ve been in many situations over the years where the TA person makes you feel like you’re about to join club awesome, and then the whole vibe takes a sharp left in round 2. That’s for later, but just keep in mind that this happens ALL....THE.....TIME.
Look, there’s a million rabbit holes I could go down telling you the kinds of questions to prepare for, what kind of research to do on the company beforehand, that could be a 10-episode series in itself. But don’t bug out over a phone screen. Do about a half hour of research on the company in the days leading up, take some notes on what they do, what they’re all about, how they’re doing financially (very easy to find if they’re publicly traded – don’t wanna be working for anyone circling the drain now, do we?). You don’t need to go memorizing company mission statements – honestly I don’t think I’ve ever even been asked about them in an interview.....quite contrary to what my college career counselors told me. Just have a fundamental understanding of what kind of company this is. And don’t do it because you think your dorky-ass research is going to make you look good. Do it because you genuinely want to understand who you’re potentially going to be spending a solid third of your waking hours working with. Honestly, the TA person you talk to isn’t going to have the answers to most of your questions anyway, so save the real complicated and specific stuff for the later rounds.
However, there is one MEGA exception to the very casual attitude I’m encouraging you to take towards phone screens. And that folks, is the question they’re going to ask you about salary. And here’s where I need to rant: I could NEVER, for the life of me, understand why salary, the primary reason why a person works, the main motivator, the stuff that makes the world go round, has to be danced around like we’re in a freaking ballet recital. And here’s where a lot of us growing up in past decades were fed a load of horse manure when we were told “It’s taboo to ask about salary”. And there’s a LOT of very accomplished people out there still dishing out this horrible, counterproductive, outdated, and just plain ASININE advice. A lot of people have been taught to let the company completely control the salary game, and to give vague, politically correct answers when asked about it. Some will straight-up tell you to even dodge the questions and change the subject.
I’ll never forget: One time, back when I was a wee lad with in the early days of me corporate life, I was asked point blank in an interview “what are your salary expectations for this job?”. My answer? “Something fair and reasonable, I’m open to negotiate.” In other words, “you’ve got me by the you know what, do with me what you will.” Now lucky for me, they ended up making me a very fair offer right at market price for someone at my level, so it all worked out – they were a good, reputable company. But I’ve seen people get HOSED, completely screwed silly, and why? Because they were fed the line of crap that it’s taboo to talk about pay, that it's a trick question if anyone ever asks, and to just evade it if at all possible.
So HOW then, do you handle this? How do you educate yourself on reasonable salary expectations, and how do you navigate this BS pirouette balance-beam act that we’ve been led to believe is “the right way to do it”? Quite simply: do....your....research. Technology gets a bad rap, but the nice thing about living in the height of the information age is that we have more information available to us than ever before. There’s some insane statistic out there that goes something like, the average 10-year old with a smartphone today has access to more information than the US government did 30 years ago.
Don’t quote me on this exactly, but the actual truth is probably pretty close, so there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for showing up to that phone screen not prepared for the salary question.
How do you do this? It all starts with a visit to any internet search engine. Simply type in “job pricing tool”, or “salary estimator”, or “how much is my position worth”, anything like that. You’ll get a bunch of hits for different websites that will give you all this information. I can’t say which ones specifically, since none of them are sponsoring my journey through podcast land (not yet anyway!), but they all pretty much do the same thing and they’re not hard to find. You’ll be able to search for different job titles and then specify a whole bunch of criteria about yourself: where you live, your level of education, years of experience, and a bunch of other questions they’ll prompt you with. Based on what you tell it, it’ll come back with an expected salary range for that role. Don’t stop at just one though: I recommend getting reports from at least 2 different websites to make sure they’re in relative agreement with one another. They won’t be exactly the same, but as long as they’re reasonably close you can be confident in what the data tells you.
Something to be aware of here. Most of these sites require you to make an account, and usually they’ll let you have a handful of reports for free before you hit a paywall. This is another reason I recommend using multiple services: more subscriptions equals more free reports! But, don’t go making new email accounts just as a cheap way of gaming the system. If you’re a serious jobseeker, I PROMISE you: it’s worth the few bucks a month to have unlimited access to information that will absolutely pay dividends in your career.....every two weeks, at that! Find the one or two sites that you like and trust, and be willing to part ways with a small amount of cash. They’re not expensive.
A real-life testimonial for you here. Those of you that know baseball might know the commercial I’m going to reference. Mariano Rivera, the now retired closer for the Yankees, did a commercial for one of the big job search companies. In the commercial, he’s helping someone prepare for a video interview by coaching them on what to wear, how to adjust the lighting, and a bunch of other stuff. One thing he says with conviction in the commercial is “know what you’re worth”, and he’s absolutely right. He was my childhood hero for what he did on the mound in the late innings, and here he is coming up big again giving out some INCREDIBLY good advice for jobseekers. Whether you like baseball or not, take his advice, do your research, and you’ll be armed and dangerous when this much-anticipated question comes up.
Now: how does the topic of salary come up during the phone screen? Most of the time, the TA person is going to ask YOU what kind of salary you’re looking for, asking you to make the first move. Usually, I recommend flipping the script back on them: if at all possible, you’ll want them to tip their hand first. I advise clients to first ask how the compensation package is structured. Is it just a base salary? Is there a bonus? Or is it on commission? Clarify this first – they should have no problem telling you.
Then, simply say “well, I was hoping you could give me an idea of what you had set aside for this role, and from there I can tell you if we’re on the same page”. At this point, seeing that you’re not afraid to show some coyones, most good companies will be transparent and tell you the range. If they don’t, or if they insist that you throw out a number first, I consider this a red flag (one of the many we’ll talk about later in later episodes). But, nonetheless, humor them and simply say “based on the research I did on market price for this role, I’m looking to be somewhere between x number and x number for total cash compensation”.
Benefits, 401-K, and other perks are a different story and won’t be an issue until way at the end when you receive an offer, so don’t focus on anything except actual cash monies at this stage. We need green in our pockets to survive, and this job isn’t worth another minute of your time if the salary isn’t where you need it to be. This is the make-or-break point for most job interviews, so as long as you seem reasonably qualified and you’re in line on salary, there’s a very high probability you’ll be passed on to the next round.
One final, yet CRITICAL point on salary. Corporatopians: those of you active on the job market have probably noticed that companies have increasingly begun putting salary ranges on job descriptions. Praise the lord hallelujah! A huge step in the right direction for job seekers! It should have freaking been this way since the BEGINNING, A FANCULO, but I guess late is better than never. It all started a few years ago with Colorado being the first state to make this a rule, and then it started spreading like wildfire. HOWEVER: it’s not perfect. Shady companies will pull all kinds of tricks here. Sometimes they’ll put astronomically wide ranges in job postings: saying that a job pays between $50K and $250K tells the far majority of job seekers basically nothing. Another red flag for a later time, but this is one reason why you’ll still need to do your own research. I’ve also seen companies lowball the living crap out of the salary ranges they include on job postings, so never take it at face value: always be armed with information that you found from a neutral third party – any of the websites we alluded to earlier should do the trick just fine.
And another question I get asked a lot. Can companies ask you what you made in a previous role? This used to be common practice across the board, but in the renaissance that the job market has seen in the past 10 years, you’re seeing less and less of it. As I sit here talking to you in January 2024, a significant portion of states in the US actually have laws AGAINST asking candidates about salary history. However, it’s still legal in some, so depending on where you’re living and/or working, you might still get asked this. You want my opinion? Knowing that this is trending towards a nationwide ban, any company today that asks you point-blank about salary history is more than likely trying to get one over on you, are REALLY behind the times and out of sync in their hiring practices, or just plain unethical and unprofessional. Make sure your job offer is based on fair market value, not your own personal history.
We covered a lot in this episode, so what should you take away from all this? Let’s answer that with today’s........consigliere call to action. A phone screen really isn’t much to be scared of: the hard questions don’t come until the later rounds. So to prepare, just do some basic research on the company, and spend 5 minutes looking at the interviewer’s Linked-In profile (they’ll almost always have one) just to get some brief background on them and where they fit into the equation at the company. At every stage, you always want to have some intel on who you’re talking to and what their agenda might be.
Next, be ready to hear a high-level summary of what the job is all about, and to answer relatively basic questions about your experience. Also have a few questions ready for them, but keep it surface-level (where the job is located, in-person/remote, where the position sits in the organization, the title of the person you’ll be reporting to, fundamental stuff like that). Remember, whether they work for the company itself or for a third-party, chances are the TA person doesn’t know much about the specifics of the job, so you’re wasting precious air by asking them for hard-core details.
And finally, the number one thing to be ready for, all the company really cares about at this point, quite honestly: the salary conversation. Do your homework ahead of time, and come to the phone screen well aware of what a job like that should pay in your area, for someone with your education, your experience, and so on. Use any reputable job pricing website, and don’t be afraid to spend a few bucks a month to keep yourself in the know: could be the best investment you ever make. Remember also: don’t trust salary ranges listed on the job postings. They’re often WAY too wide, and could be WAY out of touch with market value, so ALWAYS do your own research with a reputable third-party provider.
When the question finally comes up, first clarify the compensation structure: straight base, bonus, commission, whatever the case. Then, do everything you can to get the company to make the first move throwing out a number. If they don’t, be leery, but stand your ground and state that your research revealed between x number and x number as an appropriate salary for someone like yourself, and that’s where you need to be in order for the move to make financial sense. I’d be surprised if anyone explicitly asks about salary history anymore, so if they do, just keep the conversation focused on market price for the job in question. Don’t let anyone strong-arm you into volunteering information that could derail your efforts.
Sadly folks, that’s all the time we have for today. But have no fears, and shed no tears, because I’ll be back with a new episode every week. As they say in the industry: no listeners, no show, so do me a favor, and stay loyal! If you find value in my content, please leave me a nice review, tell all your friends, and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow on whatever platform you use to get your podcasts. Beyond the confines of your headphones, speakers, TV screen, or any other crazy contraption with the ability to stream audio, I also provide one-on-one career assistance, so visit my website at career-consigliere.net to learn more about me, book me for one-on-one coaching, join my email list, or explore some of the other career services I offer. And to all of you out there in podcast land, remember this: Who’s the boss in your career? You, nobody else.
