Whaddaya hear, whaddaya say? Welcome to episode 9 of the Career Consigliere podcast, your no frills, no BS forum for navigating the corporate job scene. Jimmy with you, for what we hope to be a highly informative and engaging half an hour, or so! Today, we’re going a bit deeper in the job interview process by exploring what happens in round 2. This is where it really counts, and the company begins interrogating us about the stuff that really matters. We’ll talk about what to expect, how to handle the common types of questions you’ll get asked, and what to do after it’s over. Lots to unpack as this saga continues, so if you’re ready podcast land, letssssss get it!
If you listened to episode 8, at this point we cleared the hurdle of the phone screen. We were qualified-enough for the job on paper, and we were in the same ballpark with salary, so they passed us on to the next round. And what happens in that next round? Of all the interview journeys I’ve been through, dozens of them throughout the course of my career, the second round was ALWAYS a one-on-one with the hiring manager.......every single time. Makes total sense – now that the company has a viable candidate in the pipelines, let’s get you introduced to your potential boss for “further evaluation”.
And here’s where the game changes drastically. At this stage, we’re talking to someone who knows what’s up: they work in the department we’re going to be in, they know all about the job we’ll be doing, and there’s a good chance they’re well-established and highly respected in the company, especially the higher up you go. If you’re interviewing for a job at director level or above, the reporting lines start getting awfully close to the executive team. And guess what else? This person is our potential boss! They’re going to see and hear about our every move, and nobody is going to have closer eyes on you than they are. We’ve gone from the phone screen, the easiest of the interviews, to round two with the hiring manager, which is by FAR the hardest phase. I warned you guys in the last episode about the vibe totally changing during the interview process? Well if that’s going to happen, here’s where it does.
For starters, this day and age, prepare for a video interview here. Most corporate jobs want to see your face at this point, but these days it’s almost always done via one of the big video conferencing platforms that, lets face it, are all pretty much identical and very user-friendly by now. How to prepare for a video interview may be common sense, but if you’d like a play-by-play, we’ll cover all that in a later episode. Here, we’re going to focus on what the hiring manager is going to ask you. They have a pretty vested interest in you as a candidate. They’re taking time out of their day to vet you for a job that has a direct impact on them, so they should already have some familiarity with your background and experience. This isn’t always the case: I know one thing that always bothered me to no end was when the hiring manager’s first question was “walk me through your resume”. Translation: I didn’t bother to read it, so do let’s see how well you can do my job for me. Most won’t do this – they’ll have specific questions lined up for you, but if this DOES happen, simply walk them through the major highlights of all the relevant roles you’ve held. Along the way, be sure to reiterate that you’re being brief on purpose, but that you will welcome any questions they have along the way and that you’re open to keeping the conversation a back-and-forth dialogue.
Regardless of how the interview starts off, the hiring manager DEFINITELY wants more detail than what’s listed on your resume, whether they read the damn thing or not. And here, corporatopians, is where the interview process REALLY starts to turn up the gas on you. The hiring manager will usually ask you about specific projects you worked on, and other things you’ve done in previous roles. They want to know that your experience prepares you for the role with THEIR organization. So as you’re talking, they’re paying VERY close attention to all the peripherals in your story. They’re looking for things like what was the situation at hand, who else was involved, what were the implications, what were the politics and delicacies of the situation, and most importantly, what did you do about it? See what I mean? Look at everything this gives them: based on your answer to one single question, the hiring manager now gets an idea of.....
- how you handle conflicting priorities,
- how well you work with other people,
- how well you manage the complex intricacies of social dynamics
- How well you make decisions
- Your level of initiative to take action
Pretty crazy, right? Think of all the things going through the hiring manager’s head, as well as the notes spilling from their pen or keyboard, about all the implications your response has. And in many cases, especially at larger organizations with well-established, formal hiring practices, they may even have a list of criteria in front of them that they’re looking for your response to have. They call this the “structured interview”, and it’s essentially a test that you as a candidate don’t even know you’re taking!
Great example of this. Years ago, I did a consulting project down in Alabama. Long story short, I was helping an organization down there ensure that their hiring practices were fair and objective so that everyone interviewing for the different positions stood an equal chance and were evaluated on very well-defined, objective criteria. STRAIGHT out of My Cousin Vinny, by the way: imagine a dude like me walking the mean streets of Birmingham “axin’ bout Chinese food”? I literally did this! What I didn’t realize is that the whole world ceases to exist by 6pm down there, so I couldn’t get my late night General TSO’’s chicken fix. If you’ve never seen My Cousin Vinny, it’s a classic and I don’t want to ruin it for you. But if you want an idea of how I was received during my consulting project, pay attention to Joe Pesce’s character in that movie and it’ll make total sense. Check it out if you haven’t seen it.
But back to the point: the structured interview. In my case, I watched interviews taking place from a control room with one-way glass. The candidates were asked scenario-based questions, and I had a checklist in front of me, supplied by the employer, that listed the specific items they were looking for in the candidates’ response. When their response included one of these items, I checked it off on my list. Rinse and repeat for all the questions that were asked, and at the end all the checks were totaled up into a point value that gives the candidate a numeric score to be rated against other candidates.
Why is this relevant? Because for all you know, the hiring manager interviewing you could very well have a checklist like this in front of them. And if so, you literally have to NAIL it. The unfair part is that you don’t know what they’re looking for – all you can do is make your best guess. Every company is different and values different things, so all you can do is go in there, do your thing, and hope that your values and problem solving strategies align. However, we’re not just throwing spaghetti at the wall here. Regardless of what the company may or may not have on their hidden checklist, there’s a very well-established formula you can follow that will NEVER steer you wrong.
You’ll hear a few names and acronyms for it, but you know me, I always vote to simplify this corporate mumbo jumbo as much as possible. When answering a scenario-based question, go with what’s called the SAR format: S-A-R, standing for Situation, Action, result (not to be confused with SARS, the deadly virus – point of distinction, LOL). Real simple guys – Situation: describe the context of what was going on, the backstory, who was involved, anything necessary to give the interviewer a setting for the story you’re about to tell. Action – you say what specifically YOUR role was the situation and how you personally solved whatever challenge was at hand. This is no place for modesty – they want to know what YOU did: not your colleagues, your boss, a-nobody-but-a-you. Finally, Result: tell them what the outcome was, what happened as a direct consequence of YOUR actions. Metrics are always good to use here, or any other way you can quantify the outcome to put it into an easy-to-understand nice little package for the interviewer.
Here's an example of how the SAR format plays out in real life. It really comes in handy when the interviewer hits you with those dreaded and ultra cliche, “tell me about a time when....” types of questions. But whether that’s how they phrase it or not, the SAR format is your best ammunition in this case. I’ve been asked this exact question many times during interviews in the past: “tell me about a time when you were faced with a challenge that you didn’t think you could overcome”. How did you handle it, and what happened? And TO this extremely loaded question, I lay out a classic, go-to example from my past. “There was a situation back when I worked in corporate real estate. I was asked to run a whole big analysis on office utilization data for a series of floors in a Manhattan skyscraper to determine whether or not it made sense to renovate the floor and optimize the space the way the company had intended. We were under a tight deadline to show the report to Mark Johnson (not a real name), he was the EVP of the business unit, and that’s when I realized that the software we used to analyze the data wasn’t calculating the results of the analysis properly. And of course, this happens at 3pm on a Friday, right when everybody that could potentially help is already hanging out in Margaritaville, if you know what I mean. So, the whole rest of the night was my own personal YouTube party, where I watched every video I could find on how to troubleshoot this software package. Just before the stroke of Saturday that night, I was able to figure it out and produce the analysis. Had to watch my back walking down canal street going home at that hour, but overall the evening was a success – best solo party I ever went to. I was able to get Mark the report he needed on Monday, right on time, giving all the important stakeholders enough time to review it to make sure everything checked out before he had to bring it in front of the board.
So what did I do here? My situation: big project looming, deadline approaching, technical problems, and I’m ALL ALONE with it, and the worst possible time. Action: I spent almost another whole work day’s worth of time troubleshooting the problem and finding a solution, with only the janitors and security guards to keep me company. And the result: not only did big MJ get his report on-time, he also had time to gut check it with his cabinet to make sure it was board-appropriate. Real straightforward guys – situation, action, result. And pay attention to what else I did: I incorporated personality and humor. Yes the jokes about happy hour and the treachery of lower Manhattan are real parts of how I’ve always told this story. They might not have come out with quite the same charisma and bravado I have when I’m on the mic, but I always got some chuckles and, at the very least, half-hearted smiles from the interviewers as they desperately tried to maintain their stoicism and not show me that my story was actually kind of freakin funny.
Incorporating personality into your interview does a few things. For one, it humanizes you and shows that you’re a warm-bodied mammal that bleeds. Two, it shows that you have the ability to handle a stressful scenario (like being interrogated for chance at a life-sustaining job), with confidence and grace. And three, it shows that you’re trying to also appeal to the human side of the organization, that you YOURSELF understand the importance of culture fit. I’ll warn you: sometimes, you’re going to be talking to a stone-cold, poker-faced robot on the other end. They’re might not find your jokes, turns of phrase, and other displays of quick wittedness very amusing. And you know what? They can go get lost, because if that’s the case, you don’t need them. Remember, for as much as you need to fit the company, they also need to fit you, otherwise EVERYBODY’s miserable. Go in there, do your thing, play with authority, and go with confidence. You won’t win them all, but you’ll win the ones that were meant to be. Moral of the story, be ready for a whole bunch of scenario based questions like this, and stay true to the SAR format for every answer you give.
After an exhausting and mentally draining 45-60 minutes of this interview, it finally comes to an end. And a good amount of the time, so does your candidacy for that job. It’s just the filthy, depressing truth guys: According to Zippia, even after the second interview, your odds of getting the job are half-chance at best – between 25-50% to be more exact. While you still stand a way better shot at getting the offer than you do at winning the lottery, or raking in big by betting the Jets to win the Super Bowl, don’t get your hopes up too much. There are a TON of reasons why this happens, but we’ll talk about that at some point in the future. But give yourself some credit. Regardless of what happens, you’ve successfully made it through the hardest part of the interview.
What happens after it’s over? If they’re serious about you, they’ll usually follow up with you before you have a chance to send one of those ass-kissy thank you emails. I have VERY mixed feelings on thank-you notes: You know that old, outdated advice I love to hate on? Thank you/follow-up letters are one of the worst offenders, in my opinion. At this point in the process, you’ve already given the company almost 2 hours of your time in interviews, plus all the resume/application work you did, preparation, all that happy stuff. Let’s call it a solid day of your life that’s been sunk into interviewing for this job, that’s probably pretty fair. And YOU need to thank THEM?? Guys, call me skeptical, but if you’re tailor made for the job, and the company sees that, is you not sending a thank-you email really going to be the reason they pass on their #1 candidate? It just doesn’t make sense. If they’re serious about you, they’ll be zeroed in on you and won’t play games.
Here’s how I’d approach it. If more than a week goes by and you don’t hear from anyone with next steps, send the hiring manager an email (if you somehow don’t have their contact info, get it from the TA person you’ve been dealing with). Real basic and to the point: just thank them for interviewing you for the job, let them know you’re still interested, and make yourself very available for next steps. As with anything else in life, I would give you the same consigliere wisdom: whenever something starts getting complicated and stops making sense, something’s going on. Whether it’s in job interviews, dating, business deals, whatever the case – read the writing on the wall and adjust your expectations accordingly. Don’t waste time and energy when it’s looking like a one-sided endeavor.
What goes on here? LOTS goes on, here in interview round 2. It’s no question the hardest and most dense of all the interview rounds, so let’s package all this wisdom up for you in today’s.......consigliere call to action. These days, round 2 is almost guaranteed to be a one-on-one video interview with the hiring manager. Other than the ol’ “walk me through your resume”, everything they ask you is more than likely going to be some kind of a scenario-based question. And you’ll want to answer these questions using the tried and true SAR format: situation, action, result. Yes, you’ll find more complex versions of this out there in the job search literature, but keep it simple and use this one – it’s got everything you need.
What makes the SAR format so important is that more well-established companies might actually be putting you through a structured interview, without you even knowing it. Yes, that’s when the interviewer literally has a hidden agenda checklist in front of them of specific behaviors they’re waiting for you to mention in your answers. Structured interviews are great tools, and they help keep the hiring process fair and objective. But the downside is that you’re fighting a battle without really knowing who or where the enemy is. So, the best you can do is stick to the SAR format and give examples that are relevant and to-the-point, but don’t be afraid to also show some personality and humanity. Most companies want to hire a person, not a robot.
And once it’s all over, if the company is serious about you, you should be hearing back about round 3 within a week. If it goes more than a week, definitely start mentally preparing for the possibility that this might not happen. But at that point, if you’re so inclined, you can send the hiring manager a very brief email just reiterating that you’re still interested and are hoping to speak again.
Sadly folks, that’s all the time we have for today. But have no fears, and shed no tears, because I’ll be back with a new episode every week. As they say in the industry: no listeners, no show, so do me a favor, and stay loyal! If you find value in my content, please leave me a nice review, tell all your friends, and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow on whatever platform you use to get your podcasts. Beyond the confines of your headphones, speakers, TV screen, or any other crazy contraption with the ability to stream audio, I also provide one-on-one career assistance, so visit my website at career-consigliere.net to learn more about me, book me for one-on-one coaching, join my email list, or explore some of the other career services I offer. And to all of you out there in podcast land, remember this: Who’s the boss in your career? You, nobody else.
