Episode 13: Bad Behavior from the Interviewer

What happens when the person interviewing us does us wrong?  Maybe they have bad communication skills, maybe they're disengaged, or maybe they're just a rude S.O.B.

Join Jimmy for a VERY down-to-earth conversation on how to deal with bad behavior on the part of the interviewer.  You'll hear some memorable stories, and will learn some useful strategies for navigating the pitfalls of unprofessional characters on the other end of the employment conversation.

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Transcript

Whaddaya hear, whaddaya say?  Welcome to episode 13 of the Career Consigliere podcast, your no frills, no BS forum for navigating the corporate job scene.  Jimmy with you, as always, for what we hope to be a highly informative and engaging half an hour, or so!  In today’s episode, we’re going to come back to something I touched on previously:  dealing with bad behavior during an interview.  Out of all the pitfalls that potentially await job candidates in an interview, this is the one that’s personally rocked my boat the most, yet almost none of the standard wisdom out there prepares you for it, or really even talks about it.  We’ll lay the foundation for how these behaviors usually manifest, and how to deal with them, if you even should.  And along the way, you’ll also get some true stories of real-life interviews that I’ve seen be affected by this.  Podcast land:   letttssssss get it!

If you’ve heard my previous episodes about job interviews, it was all the standard stuff:  how to prepare, questions to be ready for, questions to ask, and what to expect in the process.  One thing that I mentioned briefly but didn’t elaborate on much was the behavior of the interviewer.  Sometimes, and this is the god’s honest truth, they don’t always treat you well.  But let’s not confuse what’s actually happening:  you’re interviewing for a job.  Another business is considering hiring you and PAYING you (sometimes very handsomely) in exchange for your services. And the more they’re paying, usually, the more they’ll be expecting of you.  With that said, you can’t expect the person on the other end of the conversation to be all sunshine and rainbows:  they have really important questions to ask you, and limited time in which to do it.  They’re completely within their rights to put on a poker face during your conversation.  Even some of my previous managers who turned out to be great in the end, gave me the cold shoulder and were all business during the interview.  To a certain extent they have to keep up appearances.

But some take it WAY too far.  In fact, for some of them, the interview becomes a power trip and a forum for them to exercise complete authority and control over you, the candidate, who’s in the most vulnerable of all vulnerable positions.  Think about it:  you’re interviewing for a job:  a means to the end of making money, earning a living, keeping food on the table.  You’re asking for money, “hat in hand”, so to speak.  Most candidates go to the interview to essentially plead their case, hoping that the company sees enough value to bring them onto their payroll.  This puts the interviewer in a TREMENDOUS position of power.  You want to understand someone’s true character?  Put them in a position of complete control like this and see how they treat the person before them.  And that’s where I urge you, the candidate, to be extremely cautious.  The way you get treated during an interview says SO much about not only the characters interviewing you, but also the organization at large.  

What does this look like in practice?  It starts with basic respect and courtesy.  Does the TA person that you’re dealing with answer your emails or calls in a reasonable timeframe?  Or do they leave you hanging for days/weeks on end?  Once the appointment is made, does the interviewer show up on time?  Once you’re talking with them, are they paying attention to you, making good eye contact, and do seem engaged in the conversation?  Or are they looking the other way, distracted, or clearly typing something other than notes during your interaction?  Are other people walking in the room and interrupting your interview?  You guys get it -  It’s easy to tell right away if you’re being treated with professionalism and respect.  

And if this is happening in your interview, it might not be your fault:  don’t assume that a disengaged interviewer means that you’ve done something wrong – you could be ACING it, for all you know:  go with your gut:  if you feel like you’re doing well, keep that confidence flowing and keep bringing the A+ stuff, it’ll only help you keep the momentum going.  But if you know you’re on your game, yet the interviewer is acting aloof,  pay very close attention to this, because it’s coming from somewhere.  It could be that they’re deliberately trying to avoid tipping their hand and showing emotion.  I’m not the biggest fan of this tactic, but it does happen quite a bit:  a lot of interviewer training reinforces being objective like this.  Remember too, the person interviewing you also has a full-time job (and a life), and any number of work or personal factors could be influencing their mood at that point.  True professionals will do a good job separating themselves from outside factors like this, but let’s face it, some people have better control over themselves than others.  Or?  Another possible explanation?  They’re just a rude, disrespectful a-hole – it could literally be as simple as that.  What does all this look like, and how do you deal with it?  Keep listening.  

Let’s first look at the case of what I call “the out of touch, disengaged interviewer”.  I was interviewing for a position one time with a big, very well-known corporation.  Because of their size, they had a dedicated TA team, and that part of the interview process was a piece of cake.  The role was a managerial position, and they explained that I would be overseeing a team of content creators, and that my primary function would be in a supervisory capacity, with the extreme technical work being performed by my subordinates.  Very straightforward, and like a hot knife through butter, they passed me on to round 2.

Round 2 was with the hiring manager, and another parallel stakeholder that I’d be working with regularly.  To help you follow the story better, the hiring manager was a guy, and the other interviewer was a girl (“guy” and “girl” from here on).  I’m very good at picking up peoples’ vibes, it’s one of my many rare and special talents, and right away I could tell that girl was a fake, plastic, phony person with a VERY inauthentic grin that just emanated corporate dishonesty.  And guy?  Total robot:  no facial expression, minimal voice inflection, and just total dry toast of a dude.  So right away, what’s going through my head is “are these the kinds of characters I really want to be working with?”  Girl began the interrogation, asking me about my background, experience, all the standard mumbo jumbo, but just had a tone of superiority about her that made you feel like none of my answers were “quite” what she was looking for.  Nothing inappropriate or out-of-line, just not the most pleasant conversation.

This interview was done virtually on video.  So while girl and I are having this riveting conversation, I’m noticing on the screen that guy is preoccupied with anything except the interview taking place.  You can tell, he’s looking at a different screen than where his camera is, his facial expressions (once he actually started making them) were completely disproportionate to what was being discussed:  clearly, he was doing other things during this conversation.  Finally, about ¾ of the way through my conversation with girl, Mr. wonderful chimes in and asks me his one and only question:  “Do you have experience working with (insert name of highly technical and complex learning software whose name I can’t recall)”.  Now remember, during my phone screening, it was made very clear that I would be SUPERVISING the content creators, not actually doing the creation myself.  So his question, to me, tells me that either he’s way out of touch with the role, or I was given bad information by the TA person.  In either case, huge misalignment, and a BIG red flag.  

So in this conversation, I was subject to light condescension at the hands of girl, was ignored by guy, and then asked a question (the only one by the way) that was so out of left field and unexpected that I honestly felt as though I wasn’t really being taken seriously as a candidate.  Maybe they just had to interview me to check a box or fill some kind of a quota, I’ll never know the answer.  If you ever find yourself in this kind of situation, we’ll address how to handle it later.

Unfortunately, my stories get even worse.  This is probably the worst I was ever treated in an interview, and a great example of what it’s like to deal with a TOTAL piece of work of an interviewer.  This was a third-round interview at the startup company I mentioned in an earlier episode.  So since it’s round 3, they brought me in-person and I spent half a day there meeting with everyone and their mother’s 4 cousins.  For the most part the conversations went well, everyone was pretty cordial and professional, and seemed like nice people for the most part:  you could tell a few were going out of their way to maintain their poker face a bit excessively, but for as annoying as it is, it’s to be expected.  The only way that I personally know how to ease the tension in uncomfortable situations is to use my personality and humor, and I guess some people are more receptive to it than others.  No biggie.

Finally, the very last round was a hybrid interview.  There were two dudes in the room interviewing me in-person, people that would be at my level (it was a managerial position, and the three of us together would have essentially been the three musketeers in that department).  And then about halfway through, the big kahuna director of the department joins us via video, on the 75” monitor they had hanging on the wall (which made his head even bigger than it already was, and you’ll see why in a minute).

Remember, this is a startup, and in typical startup fashion, everyone was on the younger side.  So Mr. capo di cazzo gets on the video, and I can immediately tell he’s only a few years older than me.  I was in my late 20s at the time, so there’s just no possible way he has ALL that much experience.  His tone was INSUFFERABLE:  every single question he asked me was EXTREMELY condescending, and he asked his questions like I was being accused of stealing something.  You could tell he had visions of becoming a CIA agent or some crap like that when he was a kid, and clearly he’d waited his entire life for the day he could interrogate someone like me.  Even light and easy stuff, like asking what the current company I worked for did, he was like, “so company x that you work for now....what do they even do? I’ve never heard of them, can you enlighten me please”.  I’m thinking to myself, hey numbnuts, you have my resume, right?  What’s a matter, you forgot how to use google?  You too busy making love to yourself in the mirror all day”?  But I kept it professional.  

As you can imagine, this made for a very difficult interview.  It’s nerve-wracking and exhausting enough being in an unfamiliar environment and getting peppered with questions by total strangers all day:  Never mind dealing with a-holes with unresolved childhood issues like this psycho.  I found myself struggling to come up with good answers for even the more simple and straightforward questions.  But here’s where it all came undone, and where he lost all his credibility.  The role would have involved working very closely with the pricing team, so he asked about my experience with pricing.  I explained mostly about my days working in customer service and logistics.  In that line of work, every customer has their own pricing agreement in place with the supplier – standard practice in any enterprise purchasing situation.  what a customer pays varies tremendously based on their sales volume, ordering patterns, frequency, and a whole bunch of other economic and business factors.  At that level, no two customers pay the exact same price.  So I made reference to this practice to the huge face on the screen and that’s when he cuts me off mid-sentence and goes “So lemme get this straight:  if I worked for your current company right now, all I have to do is bitch and complain enough, and I’ll get whatever price I want?  Maybe I’ll give you guys a call later!  Here at (this company), everyone pays the same price, so you need to understand that right away and we need someone who can be rigid on stuff like this.”

Folks, if there’s anyone listening who’s ever dealt with supply chain logistics in their life, your jaw should on the floor right now.  Here we have this young punk of a sales director at this startup company acting all big and tough, really making me uncomfortable and enjoying every second of it, while he clearly knows nothing about how business is done at the enterprise level.  And the sad part?  The people working there have to listen to him......and why do most of these startups fail?  Ahh!  And the picture becomes clearer!  I’ll leave it there.  I might have got down on myself for cracking under this idiot’s bullying tactics if he hadn’t made this ridiculous comment:  but his tough guy act became a comedy show once he tipped his hand, so I was able to walk out of there with a clear head.  I didn’t get an offer, but I saw it as a favor:  would I want to work somewhere run by an egomaniac who has a big sexy title, yet NO idea what the hell he’s talking about?  Enough said.

Guys:  MEGA red flag if this happens, and the fact that it DOES happen is terrifying, for many reasons.   As an interviewee, you are extremely vulnerable.  You’re on someone else’s turf trying to sell yourself, usually because you NEED the job, for whatever reason that happens to be.  And anyone who uses that as a chance to be real aggressive with you and make you embarrass yourself needs to be taught a serious lesson.  In my book, this is the same as beating up somebody smaller than you – it’s an absolute abomination, and the ironic part is that it makes the PERPETRATOR look stupid, not the other way around.  Anyone with half a brain can tell what’s going on immediately.  And during this miserable interview, I could even see the micro expressions from the other interviewers in the room, and I KNOW they felt me on this.

I’m sure if we got to know Mr. big face,  we’d no doubt find something in his past that makes him act this way, but we’re not his therapist:  not our problem.  Any company that has somebody like him in a high position of power, has a serious problem:  his ego is running the show, and anybody that’s been around knows that this leads to HIGHLY unprofessional behavior, and all kinds of other toxic things that a normal, healthy human wants no part of.  If you see this during an interview, RUN!  I’m not saying get up and physically leave the place or shut down the video mid-stream, we’ll go over how to take the high road here in a minute, but you want nothing to do with a place like this.  You’ll be subjected to this level of tyranny every single day, it’ll suck every bit of happiness out of your life, and there’s very little you can do to change it.  Stay away.

So when we’re faced with situations like this during an interview, what can we do and how should we handle it?  Let’s answer that with today’s......consigliere call to action.  We went through three levels of bad interview behavior:  bad communication, disengagement, and overbearing personalities.  First, we’ll focus on bad communication.  Most of the tactical communication you’ll have throughout your interview is between you and the TA person.  It’ll be mostly done through email, but occasionally they’ll call you or invite you to call them.  TA is a VERY busy function, and they’re notoriously slow to respond and short with the information they give you.  Usually it’s nothing against you:  they just have WAY too much going on.  So to some extent, you’ll have to be patient and ride the wave while you anxiously await “next steps in the process”. 

But that being said, definitely stay on top of them.  You may have noticed by now, I like the “one week” rule.  If you’re dealing with TA and they go quiet for more than a week, follow up with them just to make sure everything’s still happening.  This isn’t the place to send your kiss-assy thank you notes and pledge your unwavering loyalty to the organization:  with TA, it’s strictly a transactional conversation:  all the who, what, where, why, when, and how behind the interview.  That’s it.  Unless something is really flagrant and getting in your way as a candidate, you’ll just have to be patient with some less-than-stellar communication.  For the most part TA is your friend, in many cases they’re incentivized to bring in good candidates, so you really shouldn’t have too many problems with them.  And if things are taking way too long for your liking, like I always say, keep other options open, because they can (and will) ghost you during the interview process.

The next level of bad interview behavior:  disengagement.  It’s very discouraging when the person on the other end acts like they have zero interest in what you have to say.  In many cases, it makes you wonder why they even wanted to speak to you in the first place, and if it gets real bad, it’s very easy to start second guessing yourself while the interview is happening.  You might feel as though you’re not giving good answers, or that you’re somehow “missing the mark”, or a myriad of other insecure thoughts that can show up at inconvenient times.  

What to do in this situation?  Here’s where we really need to start taking the high road as a candidate.  As best as you can, make it your mission to give a solid performance in the interview, regardless of how the other parties are behaving.  If they seem aloof and not paying attention, it can be tempting to just bail out of the situation and jump ship on the interview (especially if it’s being done virtually and escape is only a button click away), but that makes US look bad as the candidate.  No matter what they’re doing to you, hang in there and finish whatever question you’re answering, and then immediately after, put them on the spot in a polite, professional way. 

You can say something like “just wanted to check in:  is what I’m saying so far making sense?   Any questions you have for me at this point before we continue?”  Most candidates don’t have the moxie or just don’t think to do this, so this SHOULD wake the other person up a little bit.  If they perk up, you know it worked.  And if they don’t?  Hey, at least you tried.  You’ll also want to keep them engaged by asking good questions whenever you can.  Like we’ve talked about in the past, you should NEVER hold all your questions to the end, and a case like this is a great example of why.  You asking your questions at random intervals will help keep the conversation going, and you can really gauge their level of interest in you as a candidate based on the answers they gave you.  If it’s real general and vague, then you can make a reasonable assumption that their aloofness means they’re not all that into you, but who knows:  maybe one of your questions could be the catalyst to turn the tide in the conversation. 

And finally, dealing with overbearing personalities during an interview.  NEVER let an a-hole make you look bad:  With full transparency, I say this partially because I’m upset with myself for how I let Mr. Big Face treat me during that interview:  not because I didn’t get the job, but because I felt as though he got the better of me personally:  I was less experienced then, and didn’t know what I know now.  The most important thing in ANY professional situation is to maintain your dignity.  If you feel like you’re being attacked, do your best to remain objective.  Answer the questions as asked, and maintain a calm, professional demeanor.  NO DOUBT, you’ll be tempted to chirp back and defend yourself, but in a case like this, make believe you’re on the witness stand.  Answer the mean old prosecutor’s question, and only give them what they asked for:  don’t dig yourself into a hole by talking in circles and getting lost in your own story – the person you’re dealing with has you on the ropes already, and talking too much will only make it worse.  

Also, you’ll want to challenge them back.  Again, we’re not defending ourselves per se:  if they’re going to act all big and tough on us, we’re instead asking them to REALLY show us what they’ve got.  And you can do this by asking them a REALLY hard question.  Unfortunately, you won’t really be able to prepare for this, since you’ll have no way of knowing how the person is until you get to talking with them.  This “killer question”, as I call it, is something usually more abstract and high-level.  You can even make it about them:  they clearly like showing off, so they’ll probably jump at the opportunity to showcase themselves even further.  In situations like this, you can ask something like “I’d like to learn more about you personally.....I looked at your Linked-In page and noticed you did this, and that, and the other thing, so I’d love to learn more about what brought you here, and what someone like me might want to know coming in to this role/company”.  You’ve completely given them the spotlight, but now it’s on your terms.  And who knows - maybe "opening up” a little bit might get them to drop their guard and start acting like more of a normal human.  Egos like to be stroked, remember that!  

Usually, when you put a “bigshot” on the spot like this, you’ll quickly see them downshift into a way less intense state that is NOWHERE NEAR the tough guy act they were giving you 10 minutes earlier.  And if you’ve decided midway through that this job/company isn’t for you, you can have even MORE fun with this.  You can almost use it as “practice” for dealing with difficult people in general – it’s some of the best experience you’ll ever get.  However you play it, it’ll be a learning experience for sure.  Just ALWAYS be professional and see it through to the end, and make sure you leave it on good terms.  Remember, you’re the boss of your career:  you owe these people nothing, you don’t work for them, and you don’t have to ever talk to them again if you don’t want to, even if they make you an offer.  

Sadly folks, that’s all the time we have for today.  But have no fears, and shed no tears, because I’ll be back with a new episode every week.  As they say in the industry:  no listeners, no show, so do me a favor, and stay loyal!  If you find value in my content, please leave me a nice review, tell all your friends, and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow on whatever platform you use to get your podcasts.   Beyond the confines of your headphones, speakers, TV screen, or any other crazy contraption with the ability to stream audio, I also provide one-on-one career assistance, so visit my website at career-consigliere.net to learn more about me, book me for one-on-one coaching, join my email list, or explore some of the other career services I offer.  And to all of you out there in podcast land, remember this:  Who’s the boss in your career?  You, nobody else.