11: Letting Go of Labels, Filming in Class & Tips on Auditioning/Swinging with Jack Rowan

Do you know what it’s like to be an all round dancer, actor and singer? 

In this episode, we chat with Jack, who shares his journey from dance beginnings to finding his passion for musical theatre. Starting in a church basement, Jack's path led him through ballet training and a detour into commercial hip-hop before landing in the world of professional theatre. He discusses the challenges of being labeled as just a dancer, the swinging process in 'Miss Saigon,' and the importance of self-belief and positivity in his career. Join us as Jack shares insights into his versatile career and personal growth in the performing arts.

They talked about:

•  Transitioning from dance to ballet, examining the challenges and adjustments along the way
• Struggles faced in the entertainment industry, along with the breakthrough moments that led to personal and professional growth.
• Firsthand experiences of being involved in productions such as Phantom of the Opera, including the challenges and rewards.
•  Significance of self-motivation and self-belief in navigating the ups and downs of pursuing a career in the performing arts.

... and more!

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✨ Facebook Support Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/893483165382333

Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

Step One: 🫂 Join Free Facebook Support Group

Step Two: 👀 Check out the Momentum Program for aspiring MT performers looking to become professional

Step Three: 📝Get your FREE Audition Prep Workbook

Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You deserve to be there. You've already gotten the first. Yes, you don't need to prove your place in this room to anybody, because you've already been told that you deserve to be there. There's no magic equation. When you're growing up, you're waiting for the magic equation. You go like what is the A to B to C to get there, what is the next rung in the ladder? Because you might have friends going to like real life university doing a corporate job and they know okay, I finished this degree, I get the piece of paper, I go to an internship, I get the job.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Hello and welcome back to another episode with the diet podcast, where each week, we interview professional performing artists as we discuss their stories and dive deeper into learning how to navigate the challenges we face as artists. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. If you're new here, welcome. I'm a musical theater performer, a yoga teacher and sound healer at the Australian Yoga Academy, where our podcast is filmed and recorded each week, unless we are recording people from over the globe on our online recording.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Today we have Jack Rowan in the studio with us. We had such a delightful conversation. We talk on topics of how to shake the dancer label, how to kind of get rid of labels and identify whether they're actually happening on the outside or maybe it's your own in a sabbatura, how to go into an audition room and even some tips on auditioning. And we'll also dive into Jack's stories from being in Phantom of the Opera, wedding singer singing in the rain, beautiful karaoke musical and Miss Saigon, which is currently in. So get ready, if you are a performing artist and you want to learn on how to navigate these challenges we're currently facing, we're better to be than hear the dive podcast. Let's get into it. Thank you so much for being here, jack. It's awesome to have you in.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. It's such an honor.

Speaker 2: 2:01

And we met actually doing a dance piece with Mikey Ralph? I believe yes we did.

Speaker 1: 2:05

How long ago was that, I want to say? I'm sure we could look it up on YouTube, but it was a really long time ago, yeah. It was a like long, long time ago.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Well, before we get into topics, as always, I'd love to talk a little bit about you and a bit more about your upbringing and training before your career.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Okay, well, it all started for me in a church basement. We're talking, no mirror, dancing for a brick wall, cement ground with a really thin layer of carpet over top. Wow, I think my sister was taking dance classes there and I don't know. As the story goes. I probably was really annoying in the lobby and they just shoved me in as well and, before you know it, I feel like most people growing up doing dancing. You're doing more dancing outside than school and you just go. Oh wow, this is my life now and you don't really get a chance to like. Not that we don't have autonomy growing up, but it's kind of like someone in your life generally a parent or guardian decides this is what you're going to do and then you go Greg, this is my thing, and you latch on to that, and then you finish high school and you go wait, what's.

Speaker 1: 3:09

what skills do I have, if not this you know? And then you seriously have to ask yourself is this what I'm going to do? But it started for me in a church basement Church basement.

Speaker 2: 3:18

Church basement. So you've got a home and you're in a dance and enter to basement.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Yeah, it's possible. I ever step into a church. I'm like, ah, just like home yeah just like home, amazing.

Speaker 2: 3:28

and so then, where did you go from the church?

Speaker 1: 3:31

That school closed down and my parents just happened to put me in this phenomenal school called Premier Dance Academy in Brisbane and they're very, very ballet focused and I'd never done ballet up to then. So I went from doing jazz to a brick wall to ballet, ballet, ballet, rad syllabus this is all you're going to do is ballet. And it was like boom, that's it. I guess I left high school in grade 10 to go to QDSC, which is now called Queensland Ballet's Pre-Professional Year. I think, okay, that is not legal financial advice. And I realized, wow, I just don't love ballet, like as soon as it wasn't an outlet or a hobby.

Speaker 1: 4:09

And in waking up in the morning to put on a leotard and a dance belt and it's 8 am and I'm in a dance studio, I was like this sucks, I hate it and I left and I went back to my little high school and it was around about that time I discovered I don't know if you know of the online theater group in Chicago StarCute no, have you heard of them? Oh, my god, I'm about to like throw myself completely under the bus as a huge loser. Have you ever heard of like a very pot of musical? No, okay, so very niche musical theater group out of Chicago. They were like a university troupe. They posted everything on YouTube and I remember watching it and it kind of being my secret little obsession.

Speaker 1: 4:47

I kind of felt that I couldn't tell anybody that I think I want to do theater, like I think I want to do more than ballet. And of course in the ballet world you say you want to do anything more than ballet and it's like, oh okay, that's a brave choice. So I kind of just held that to my chest and I let that lay dormant and I finished high school and I applied to go to university. I really wanted to study film and TV because I loved film. I made short films in high school. I actually had a short film playing at ACMI here in Fed Square when I was in grade 12 and I was like this is what I'm gonna do, I want to make movies.

Speaker 1: 5:18

And then my parents actually sat me down and they said you've got your brain forever. I mean the little of it that I have, but they're like you've got it forever. But you're gonna wake up one day and wish you did something with dance, with your body, like. Then they really pushed me to apply for full-time schools. I had zero knowledge. I remember I was really lucky I think it's boy brownie points. I got into everywhere. I applied to very last minute, very late, and I was really struggling where to go, like what school to pick, and I discovered also really neat, do you know Paris Goebbels group or?

Speaker 1: 5:54

your family and I was like I discovered it 48 hours before I had to give a decision to like kind of all the schools and I was like that's what I want to do. I never done a commercial class in my life. I actually discovered what commercial was. I heard it for the first time at full-time school and I was like that's what I want to do. I want to be like royal family.

Speaker 1: 6:17

And so out of all the schools that I had gotten into, people said, well, you should probably go to ministry. That's the most like that could steer you in that direction. So, very whim on the cusp, I want to be a commercial hip-hop dancer. I'm gonna go to ministry. I got there and obviously there's the full-time dance stream and a musical theater stream. And as soon as I started my first day in the full-time dance stream, I would just look through the windows at the musical theater students, right, like that's what I want to do. Like I was so jealous, I was so envious, but it felt like coming out a second time, like having to be like I want to do theater. And so I was brave enough towards the end of my first year to be like can my scholarship please be? Like transferred over to the musical theater stream. That's the dream. And they I was really lucky and they said yes, and then that's kind of what started my musical theater journey, and only to this day have I been brave enough to tell everyone about Starkeet.

Speaker 2: 7:18

I love it. That's so cool, that transition that you talk right. You know, looking through the window and seeing the musical theater kids doing their thing. It was like bross and phyla, who you've also had on the podcast? Yeah, same year yeah, oh you even training together yeah, I, yeah, we're in the same year.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, looking him through the window and I was like I want to be that guy so bad awww.

Speaker 2: 7:39

Well, how amazing that you had the courage to finally chase what you were really going for and that a lot of the signs along your journey have all been like yes, like saying the schools that you applied for it was like yes, so it was definitely a key indication from the universe. Going like this is what you're meant to do, you're so right, and then allowing yourself to actually make the decision and follow that passion into the arts, which is cool. And then, how long were you at ministry for? In the musical theater.

Speaker 1: 8:04

So the musical theater course runs for two years, but they allow me to do just my second year like one year. So I'm not actually sure what qualifications I left the building with, because I'm not sure I entirely finished the dance stream for two years or finished the musical theater stream. Yeah, for same, here I'm like I'm not sure what I got but at the end of the day, like you can attest to it, you never get into an audition room and they're like show me qualifications that's not a thing.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Well, I've got a set for in dance. How could you not book me there?

Speaker 1: 8:35

you go, we don't need to see anything else.

Speaker 2: 8:38

No, yeah, I actually don't need to show you my dancing skills, you can just see my certification. Yeah, did you go into the industry like start working pretty much straight away, or was there a?

Speaker 1: 8:46

good, there was a lot of nose, a lot of nose. I remember I expressed I wanted to do musical theater and I barely taken a singing lesson like singing class at my full-time course. Experience was singing as a collective, singing as a group, which you're not really gaining too much from that. You had to go do lessons outside of it and I was doing these lessons with someone who just made me feel like I could not sing, like it was not a good experience for me and I luckily had a lot of people in my corner.

Speaker 1: 9:16

Mikey Ralph actually wrote like a letter of recommendation for me to get signed with the agency that I'm with now. I'd done nothing, barely stepped into an audition room and I went in. It was with in white management, who I'm still with now, and I like sang for them and they were like, yeah, sure, we'll sign in. And I was like, oh, oh, my gosh, okay, like wow, wow, and I went to I'm not sure if it was with them, but I remember my first audition experience so vividly. It was for the Book of Mormon and I had done like one singing lesson and I thought, yeah, I'm going to rock up to a musical theater audition. I sang what do you do with the BA in English from Avenue Q and it was horrific, it was abysmal. I walked in there. I was like what am I doing? I'm not ready for this at all.

Speaker 1: 10:02

I'm not ready for this at all and they're like that's all we need to see. I was like, yep, totally Running away, running away. And then I started taking regular singing lessons, as one definitely needs to do, and I built up my courage and I auditioned for years and years before booking my first job, which was my first professional musical theater job, which was Phantom of the Opera on the Sydney Harbour. And then everyone kind of says you just need to book your first thing, you just need to book your first thing, and then you're in. Then you're in and you go like whatever, sure, whatever. And that's definitely not how the real world works. I don't think so, but for me, luckily, I was getting to a point where I was on hold for so much but I just hadn't built up any trust with anyone on casting panels because they didn't know if I could actually do the job. And then, as soon as I had that pick of approval on my CV, I kind of felt like it was up and up from there and I've been very lucky ever since.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Yeah, what was that experience? Like Phantom, it was simpler yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:02

Phantom of the Opera. I mean, the show is iconic, it's amazing. And then the harbour experience was definitely a journey. Have you ever done the show on the harbour? No, it's wild. It looks next level. It's really next level. We were in the middle of this insane rainy season. It was raining most nights. On stage it was cold, but nothing can beat standing on the Sydney Harbour under the stars and you're singing in the rain. It's amazing.

Speaker 2: 11:30

It's definitely a once in a lifetime experience.

Speaker 1: 11:33

It was really incredible, but for me, who never felt like I actually had musical theatre training, like it's huge ship on my shoulder. I still have, to this day, that I work with people who went to Whopper and VCA and they're like I actually know that I can do what I do because I've got this piece of paper to be surrounded by people like that who are so confident in their boots and what they do.

Speaker 1: 11:56

It was terrifying. But that experience I like to think of my first year of contracts was my musical theatre degree. I mean, you learn so much on the job, oh my gosh, so much.

Speaker 2: 12:08

So much it almost makes me think, not, what did I learn in full time? I learned a lot, but yeah, there's not really anything that can train you for the job, because every job is so different.

Speaker 1: 12:17

So different, so different, and it is, it's true. You look back and you go. What did I learn in full time? And a lot of the time it's just people use this analogy being fully cooked, going to your fully cooked, and I feel like that's that time, like you're in the oven, you're just gaining life experience. I've said it before, but everything about you outside of the studio is what's going to make you more bookable inside the studio.

Speaker 2: 12:43

For sure I love that you said that and definitely I find full time is a really good place to just refine, refine skills, go really in depth with discovering kind of who you are as an artist. But a lot of it, like we just said, you find along the way and I think a lot of maybe people in full time I know I definitely did. I thought when all the people that are in musicals are these fully realized, they've got everything home to control, they already know exactly what they want, exactly where they want to go and now, having worked and my own experience is not like that you know you're still exploring and you're still learning, Looking up to like oh, the way you idolize people in full time that are working and they come in and they teach a workshop and you hang on to every word they say.

Speaker 1: 13:29

And then the other day I've been teaching quite a few workshops up in Queensland in this break with Saigon and they were like, can we do a Q&A afterwards? And I was like a Q&A, like what do you want to know from me? And I sat down and the way they were all so quiet and looking up to me, I was like, oh shit, I'm that person now for some people and that was terrifying.

Speaker 1: 13:53

And then I was like, wow, I really can't miss my words here, because the things that people say to you in full time you really hold on to. Like there are some things that were said to me and I have never been able to shake off and my rational brain is at war with those things, because I know they're not true but you just can't shake them.

Speaker 2: 14:11

I mean it's hard advice because it's like not only the show is always different, the people you're with are so different, but like you are so different and you're experienced within a show and when anyone's having their own separate experience and then giving that advice, it's really hard to like how can you give advice to one person or to a group? Of people, that will absolutely be truthful for that person because they're going to have a whole different experience.

Speaker 1: 14:33

And there's no magic equation. When you're growing up you're waiting for the magic equation. You go like what is the A to B to C to get there? What is the next rung in the ladder? Because you might have friends going to like real life university doing a corporate job and they know okay, I finished this degree, I get the piece of paper. It's already now.

Speaker 2: 14:51

I go to an internship.

Speaker 1: 14:53

I get the job. You know we have to like Craft our rungs in the ladder, yeah, and a lot of the time it feels like Someone else has to give you that next rung in the ladder and you're just hanging out there and you just have to do it.

Speaker 1: 15:05

I was one of your what wonderful guests, I forget who it was. The difference between dreamers and doers is just that, anna, yeah, one is just doing it. Yeah, just do it wake up and go. Do it respond to the email, go to the class. That's the hardest step.

Speaker 2: 15:19

Yeah, I think you know, Guess as well. When you come out of full-time, you've gone and we've talked about this on the show before you go, from Someone telling you when to have lunch to when to shop, to like how to sing, what to say, how to look like all these stuff, and then you finish and then you've got this. You said you're like I have to make my own decisions. Yeah, yeah, like I remember getting to like 4 pm, I'm like wait, I haven't had breakfast yet. What's going on, you know like.

Speaker 2: 15:43

I got hundred percent you go from this structured life to then, all of a sudden oh, what do I do?

Speaker 1: 15:48

and you really have to like what no One's coming to go.

Speaker 2: 15:51

You know, knock, knock, yeah, get out of bed, it's time to go to the audition or you need to get a singing class. It's very different, whereas when you're you know in law or something like that, you still have that set schedule or the studying to do, or there's always these steps, yeah wake up, go to bed like even once you book work, there's no, this is when I wake up and this one I go to bed.

Speaker 1: 16:12

Everything about your life is so whack, yeah, so weird. I heard you online say something like this is the perfect time to eat a food on your like yeah, yeah, so scheduled, and I was like oh, I need to listen to that because I'm always at the alcohol and it's like I've just had lunch, oh how have I just had dinner? Yeah, or am I gonna eat after the show? It's a thing. It's my dinner after the show or a second. In what am I?

Speaker 2: 16:33

doing, you know, mm-hmm, because I'm like, I'm always thinking about food. I don't know about you, but especially when I was over in Kat's and in a full like leotard, like you know, head to toe. You can't just be like, well, I'm gonna have this curry, that the alcohol I'm gonna have. You really have to be strategic. Or either it shows, but it's uncomfortable, because then you've got a wrapped, you know, roped tail, right where you're like belly. You can't just like, let it stick out. You're literally going.

Speaker 1: 16:57

That was in the outfit. How do you go to the bathroom?

Speaker 2: 17:00

I have to ask, you have to fully get all the sleeves out, roll it down. Your mic packs actually in the back of the leotard where your neck is. Yeah, so you, when that wraps down, you either have to like take the mic out of the pocket like it's a full thing. Oh my god. And a lot of the time you can't like go until after the show like, if you want to go at interval.

Speaker 2: 17:21

You like run and like Go, but the only thing is, at the end of the first act You've got that 10 12 minute gelical ball where you're so sweaty and I don't know about you if you've ever Tried to like take up a sweaty leotard and then try to put it back on.

Speaker 1: 17:35

Yeah, it's just like this wet.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Oh me wrap that you're just like, and then the starter back to. You're just still in silent and you just feel like the aircon coming from the, from the audience, and you just like I.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Would have wet my pants multiple times. I'm the king that we will be getting the beginners call and I'll be on stage ready to go.

Speaker 2: 17:56

It's like wait, wait, I need, I need to be one more time. I need to be one more time, yeah, just just let me go one more time, oh constantly. Yeah, there's no secret latch or anything.

Speaker 1: 18:04

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2: 18:08

You did the Phantom of the Opera and then you've gone on to do shows like the wedding singer singing the rain beautiful and Miss Saigon, to kind of like I would like to say has there been one challenge? You've found that's kind of been more Consistent over the different shows that you found.

Speaker 1: 18:27

I definitely think it's been trying to like shake the dancer label.

Speaker 1: 18:32

I feel like when you come from the dancer world and that's your primary skill, like you're in for lack of better words a Lot of people will treat you as such and, before you know it, you realize Hang on, I want to be more than that. I ended up going to acting school after I finished full-time so that I could, you know, shake this, this, like, not that there's any bad stigma. I mean, to be a dancer is a wonderful, wonderful thing and a very important skill. But when you get into a space and you're surrounded by people who will confidently call themselves like actors, yeah, you're like oh, what am I doing here? So that has been definitely a consistent challenge for me and I'm always trying to find things that Make me feel like an artist or make me feel like an actor, even just calling myself an actor, because I guess, as soon as you're doing musical Theater, you're an actor. And when people ask me what I do Trying to not be like I do dance stuff or like I do theater I'm a dancer.

Speaker 2: 19:34

I go.

Speaker 1: 19:35

I'd have to take a deep breath and go. I'm an actor and, before you know it, you realize. Actually, I don't think anyone was calling me a dancer. It was me. I've made this box for myself, yeah, which I've projected onto everybody going. Oh, you think I'm just a dancer? No, no, it's me. I look in the mirror and think I'm just a dancer yeah, I definitely think you're not alone as well.

Speaker 2: 19:56

I know a lot of artists and even full-time students and even myself, like I actually Really didn't like musicals and I was in full-time, I was like I'm going to Europe and I'm gonna be a contemporary dancer, and top Patrick was like no, you're not.

Speaker 1: 20:11

What you want to do isn't necessarily what you're gonna do, exactly very that and yeah, it's just really interesting how it all definitely comes about.

Speaker 2: 20:18

But the label thing, I see it very, very prevalent, especially in full-time. You go like, well, I'm gonna be this, like you said, commercial dancer, I'm gonna be this. And what I found about musicals is it really gives you an open space to kind of be whatever you want.

Speaker 2: 20:33

Hmm and it really requires so many more things of you than just that one thing. But I definitely feel like we were just talking before, when we have that idea of we're just a dancer or just the singer or just the actor. A while ago you were just booked for that. You know, musicals booked actors, the actors were booked as actors, the singers were there and it was all split up. But, now we have ten-year-olds that can play ten instruments and sing and dance and act and acro and then you know, like Write a poem behind their back.

Speaker 2: 21:06

It's crazy, yeah, you know, and I think it's both good and a bad thing, because we are Humans and we're capable of so many different things.

Speaker 1: 21:15

But a label thing is it's still very much around and it's hard because, yeah, we were saying before, you're never these days getting booked as a dancer who plays a dancer, except for this one brief I saw recently that was asking just that. So yes, I sound like the king of hypocrisy right now, but you're never that. And so if you're walking into the audition room and thinking you're a dancer, you're not going to book it. They want actors. You're always a cactus who happens to be able to dance, or for me, it's an American GI who happens to know how to do a kickball change.

Speaker 1: 21:47

You know, especially coming from a dancer's background. I'm branching off here, but I feel like dance is a very out of all three of the facets that we kind of like think of when we think of musical theater dancing, singing, acting Dancing is the most selfish. We spend our whole time in front of a mirror. It's all about lines. It's all about do I look good, do I feel good? Okay, I've done it correctly you know, especially the full time scene in Australia is heavily based around commercial dance.

Speaker 1: 22:16

So it's all about sex and being hot, yeah, but if you bring that into an audition room, what are you doing? You need to stop asking yourself how is this movement serving me, but how is this movement serving the story?

Speaker 2: 22:31

I love that and especially like when you're training. It's very much like looking at your lines and trying to get a bit more skillful in the way you perform or way that you dance. But I think as soon as you can kind of get away from that and get more into like how can I perform this piece? Like what part of me can I bring to?

Speaker 1: 22:49

this line.

Speaker 2: 22:50

Like why am I putting my hand out here? Or why am I kicking my leg? Like what's actually intention behind it? And that is all musical theater, because I mean, I'll talk about cats again. I actually never talks about cats in the show.

Speaker 1: 23:02

I love it. It's what I mean.

Speaker 2: 23:03

iconic, yeah, but when you learn that rehearsal period like there is not one single millisecond of a step that doesn't have like a 10 year back story it's insane and you really do see the difference between a dancer who's just being a dancer or a dancer that's being a performer, and I think that's definitely missing when people are going into an auditions and we'll get into auditions in a bit they're going in about like but I dance better than all of them.

Speaker 2: 23:29

Or you feel like wait, wait a second, like I went into it and I could flip and then this other person got in and then like not as skilled, but I guarantee that person was performing and they were bringing themselves so much more than probably you with a plain face going. Well, I'm just focusing on kicking my face.

Speaker 1: 23:45

I've been been teaching a lot recently and back to that being like a kind of selfish art form. No one's afraid to look ugly anymore in the dance world. Every class is filmed, every class is filmed. Every class is filmed for a content and every audition now is filmed.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Oh my gosh, if every class was filmed when I was in full time, I would have not progressed at all, because I would have been too afraid to stand in the front of the room and look like a fool. And that's where you learn, especially when we're all, like Bambi, in the rehearsal room, not the rehearsal room in full time. Yeah, trying to figure out how our limbs work Sometimes bad, in rehearsals Mostly.

Speaker 1: 24:21

And you're like these poor kids are just not allowed to make mistakes because everything is documented. Yeah, granted, they're all very phenomenal these days Dance. The kids coming out of full time schools are insane. But yeah, that would be a huge word of advice to anybody listening. Get yourself two classes that are undocumented. Make the mistakes, leave them in the studio.

Speaker 2: 24:45

That's it. Actually, I've just started to create some dance masterclasses and workshops actually starting to go nationally, so we're starting to branch out to Sydney and go inside as well, mr Worldwide.

Speaker 2: 24:55

That's it. And at the, even the beginning of the dance masterclass, we actually went around the circle and I asked all them why you perform. Why did you dance in the first place? To kind of bring you back to like wait, why am I doing this, like in behind or away from like because I want to look good or I'm like trying to progress or whatever it was. And then at the end of class, what we do now in these classes is I finish at the time that we were meant to finish and then I say that all these groups that were done, they're not filmed. If you want to stay behind in your own time and we can play the song and you want to be filmed, you can. And it was great because a lot of people were able to go home. They weren't like waiting around for 30 minutes while paying money for a music video.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Exactly so I think even teachers that are listening. Now, maybe that's something that people can start implementing. You know, don't make the final. I feel like 30 to 40 minutes. It's all like getting into group and class.

Speaker 1: 25:47

And it's hard because I also understand everything is online these days and schools need that promotional material. Yeah, like there is a really important part to why classes are filmed, because otherwise people don't know the classes are happening these days but also just making sure that's not what it's about. It's not about the Instagram video at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 26:06

And that's another thing. With us poor, poor dancers, I often think, oh, all we want is validation. Yeah, in those full time when you're training from, like you know, you start maybe at three years old, all the way up to when you finish full time, it's validation.

Speaker 1: 26:23

I want my teacher to say that I was good and that I'm doing good. And then, before you know it, you've stepped into an audition room and you're seeking the validation of the panel. Yeah, and if you're seeking validation in an audition, you've immediately lost not just the job but yourself, because you're always going to hit a lot harder for rejection.

Speaker 2: 26:42

It'll get a lot harder.

Speaker 1: 26:43

I was trying to tell these students recently like how do you shake not wanting the panel's validation when you're in the room and these days you would know most auditions you go through a pre screening set before you even get into the room.

Speaker 1: 26:55

So, they've looked down, they've looked at your stats, they go has this person got enough experience? Tick, is this person the right size, shape, height, hair color, eye color. You know you need to trust that when you're in the room. You've already ticked all those boxes. Now you deserve to be there. You've already gotten the first. Yes, you don't need to prove your place in this room to anybody because you've already been told that you deserve to be there and I was like God that's not going to tell myself.

Speaker 2: 27:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:22

Because I get into an audition room and I you know, you size yourself up to everyone and you compare yourself and it's like no, no, no, hang on, hang on. If I was too tall, I wouldn't be here. If I was too short, I wouldn't be here. They've already decided. You have the ability to do the job, you just need to. I mean, luca Donato said it amazingly in her podcast was? It's not about being the best person in the room, it's all about trust. That was huge. When I heard that, I was like it's so right. They're never going to book someone that is anxious and nervous to watch.

Speaker 1: 27:49

They need to give you content that has sometimes, like you said, cats, years of history, there is a lot of weight on that movement, on the story. And then they have to trust that when they go to the other side of the planet and they're not thinking about you anymore in six months time you still have it. They've got that trust in you. The best person in the room never books the job.

Speaker 2: 28:11

That's so true. And even back on just quickly on the class, like filming a lot of people that I'm like seeing and that are posting like all these things, and not necessarily people all working as well, because I feel, like there might be a and maybe this is just my own mindset, but I feel like maybe a lot of people think, well, if I get onto this, like if I do really well and get this class video out, then I'm going to like book, more shows or like something.

Speaker 1: 28:33

Yes, the casting team probably doesn't even have Instagram. They don't even have Instagram, they have Instagram.

Speaker 2: 28:36

They have a marketing team that looks like that. They just want to see you as that real person 100%, and auditioning is a real skill.

Speaker 1: 28:43

I still think I'm a shocking auditioner, sure, but, like you know, going to class and looking good on Instagram is a real skill as well, one that I also don't have. Where are you putting that in an energy? Which skill is more important to you, the hot Instagram video or the auditioning skills?

Speaker 2: 28:58

Yeah, and I've always been one to kind of be more of an optimist, like when I started my dance training, my first dance dance class was Todd's class and it was all boys on a Monday and I literally like that's full on, full on, full on. And I didn't even do like first position, I had no idea, but I just like just went. I don't even remember it. I think I blacked out for half of it.

Speaker 2: 29:19

Anyway, I remember the next day going to my dad, I'm like there's no way I'm going back, like it was so intimidating, it was just ridiculous. But then I remember making this decision and my dad's always been very competitive and very like you can do it. And so I just made that decision right there, going like well, if this is the way things are and that's how it's going, I can either run from it and not progress, or I can just like accept it for what it is and like absolutely apply myself and put myself forward and just like work harder than any of them and get to that stage. So you're saying you did it all out of spite.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Well that's it. But what I've kind of said, that is, I think the filming is not going anywhere. The class being filmed, the audition, it's not going anywhere. So instead of us kind of allowing it to hinder us, I think just kind of get into it Like really just if you're going to be filmed, like then just go for a B-strip and anyone that's actually you actually love watching they not really caring about the camera.

Speaker 1: 30:14

They like fully in it, they're living, they're living.

Speaker 2: 30:17

So I think don't let it like scare. You Just like go for it and push yourself. Like if you know that in auditions now it's going to be filmed, you need to just start to like embrace the change and get on board and focus on the passion and the performing side of it for sure. So, going into now, I know you're currently doing Miss Saigon, yes, which has been awesome, and we've had, I think, three or four I think you're the fourth Miss Saigon guest.

Speaker 1: 30:41

Yes, I've listened to Abigail's recently. I know Nigel's done one recently.

Speaker 2: 30:45

Yes, who else? Well, we had Kim Hodgson.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Oh my God, yes, amazing. Oh my gosh, I'm going to be forgetting that there you go.

Speaker 2: 30:53

How is that experience going for you?

Speaker 1: 30:54

It's going phenomenal. It's my first time I've ever swung the steepest learning curve I've ever had in my entire life. You've swung a lot, you can attest. No one teaches you how to swing. No, yeah, it was. I won't lie, the rehearsal period was. For me, it was really rough. I'm a very anxious person. I remember thinking that swinging is just having a good memory before I started and I will forget where my car is if I don't take a photo of where I parked it, even if I've only been in the grocery store for 30 minutes. So I was like, oh my God, I'm not the right person for this job. And I went in with that mindset and then I couldn't tell you. I blinked and now I'm here.

Speaker 2: 31:35

That's it.

Speaker 1: 31:37

I have a really good swing family and we all got through it together and I cover 11 tracks on the show, which is mind blowing.

Speaker 2: 31:46

And now, I love it.

Speaker 1: 31:47

I absolutely love it. I wouldn't have my time inside gone any other way. Do I want to swing my next job? Okay, can I answer that later? But I'm really loving it, especially because this tour has legs. It's going for quite a while. This keeps me very busy, very occupied. I've realized doing it that I am someone that needs to be busy on the job. Every other time I've done a show, I've been part of the regular playing ensemble and you do the show eight times a week and you're like I'm gonna be a bit silly here or there or I'm gonna make someone gag here or there.

Speaker 1: 32:24

And there's none of that for me. Now I come to work, there's always a new challenge. I'm always learning something new. I really love it. I've realized that if I can do this, I can do anything.

Speaker 2: 32:37

It's been a huge.

Speaker 1: 32:39

I feel like my whole life has been asking myself why wasn't I my biggest cheerleader in that moment and doing this? You have to be your biggest cheerleader and it's been amazing. No one can take that away from me.

Speaker 2: 32:53

Yeah, swinging is a whole nother beast, for sure. I feel like there's definitely life before and after swinging there is I yes? You can't see a show. I can never go back.

Speaker 1: 33:03

I can never go back, like even when I did Beautiful on the Gold Coast. I got to be the dance captain and we didn't have a swing. But of course, being in that position when someone's sick, they all look to you and they go how are you gonna fix it? So I kind of had a little taste of swinging, but nothing on this scale.

Speaker 2: 33:19

Do you have any advice now that you have swung on swinging? I think?

Speaker 1: 33:23

it's. Everyone says this, but I can't yell it enough Find what works for you. I sat down with I have some wonderful, very amazing swings in my life and I called them all up and I was like, can you please tell me how to do this? And they all gave me their bits and bobs and I don't do it like them at all, and neither do they do it like each other. Everyone has their own thing. For me, it's my tracking sheets. I love my tracking sheets.

Speaker 1: 33:47

I thought that I would use an app like OneNote a lot, like a lot of birds I view, I take a lot of photos, I see the full picture. I rarely ever do that. I'm not doing that. It's each one of my 11 plots. I've got a multiple page document and it goes through scene by scene entrance and exit, what they're wearing, what I do in it, word for word, what I do. I walk over here, step here, grab this with left hand, walk over here when this is said, say that like literally word for word, and every time before I step on stage, I read it. I unlock the part of my brain where that info is stored and I go out there.

Speaker 1: 34:23

And, especially with Saigon, I've never, ever, not done a split track. Everything is split track. That's just how the show is cut up. When people are being swung on for different, like supporting parts, they will step in and out of their ensemble role. So you're then stepping in and out of multiple ensemble roles. It's just how it works. So those pieces of paper for me have been vital, and I will put the information I need to know in my head for that. Next, say, two scenes or three scenes go on stage. I step off stage. I get that information. I throw it away. I get my iPad out. I read the next three scenes get that in. Step on stage, because I don't have a brain that can like you can't go. Okay, do track number nine out of 11. Now this scene. I'm like I couldn't tell you. I need my material. It's in there somewhere, but that gives me the confidence to go out on stage and do it.

Speaker 1: 35:12

That's what works for me and I tried a lot. I tried the one note. What else did I try? I refer back to video a lot. I always have my laptop and my iPad at work and I've generally got footage of the show up on one of them and I will refer back to that constantly, especially an acting heavy show like Saigon, where none of the regular playing cast ever does the same show twice in those really big, busy scenes. So having to keep up to date with how their track has, like, amalgamated or changed, developed yeah, developed over the course of the few months, and making sure that I'm not coming in with any strong ideas that are going to throw the actors around me.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Yeah, you really never stop learning. Especially, we've just had some wonderful new cast join us for Asia and I just assumed that, like the puzzle, they would just get slotted into their puzzle piece. No, no, no, no, no, no. Today no one is doing a carbon copy of like the other person's track at all, so I've literally had to relearn. For me it's been three tracks, like completely get the piece of paper, scrunch it up, throw it away, start again, which was at the beginning. I was like are you kidding me? What do you mean?

Speaker 1: 36:23

I barely wrapped my head around these ones, but I think it's that's the best part. Like I rock up to work every day, every day, if I'm not on stage, I'm at my laptop or I'm typing something. I mean towards the end of the Australian run, all of our swings were very confident in our boots and we definitely were having fun in Swingland when the show was on, but definitely like when we start back up again in Manila. I will be back to those notes, starting afresh, because you best believe these six weeks off. Like I said, I forget where I'm, like where I parked my car.

Speaker 2: 36:57

So we're about to have a very interesting it's going to be like you've never done this show yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:02

So I've got to get myself into a studio and just like do something.

Speaker 2: 37:06

Yeah Well, it's so exciting and I didn't think I was going to release it now, but I may even cut it out. But as part of the dive, what I'm kind of looking to create, which is coming out very soon, is a few different programs, and one of them is like a bonus package of, or auditioning, and there's also swinging, so it would actually I'm going to create some.

Speaker 1: 37:28

I don't think I'm going to add this in. Well, if you do, no one teaches you how to swing and, trust me, if anybody knows how to do it, it's Mr Taylor's.

Speaker 2: 37:35

That's it. So, yeah, we're putting that together and like how to track, how to like, block out, and it will be like PDFs of like into exit. That's it. Seeing one seem to? Yeah, that's it. No one teaches you.

Speaker 1: 37:47

When we we've gotten a new swing actually on the show and I was like here's, this is how I do it, this is how I do it. I'm going to word vomit how I do it Take it or leave it.

Speaker 2: 37:53

I think there is like a there is a puzzle to it to. I think you got to decide are you a visual learner? Do you? Are you an audio Cause? I've had someone literally in rehearsals voice record like this person's jumping on this, and then they're going exit stage left and like they have it like audio and then they write it down late, like there's just so many things. But then if you start to understand which way you go, it's easier to do yeah, if you don't, if you don't like work, don't swing.

Speaker 1: 38:17

You know you can really tell that, as who have swung before, because of just their kindness towards you, towards you as a swing, or their ability to see the full picture, or yeah, it's I. I definitely have a world of appreciation, like you can say, like I get it, I kind of get it, until you're actually doing it, when you're actually living on adrenaline. So you're out on stage and you're telling yourself don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. Now they're a step kick. Don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry, cause you just, but you love it, but it's so overwhelming, it's so overwhelming For sure, like I'm such an anxious person and I told people I was swinging psych on multiple people in my life who love me very much and they meant it in a very endearing way. They're like oh, oh, you're going to swing, are you sure? Do you think that's it?

Speaker 2: 39:08

How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1: 39:09

Oh yeah, oh, so you, Jack, who you know, forgot how to spell his middle name once. That's just Connor. You know you get stressed out. Have a dinner, but how?

Speaker 2: 39:20

amazing, because you've probably surprised yourself.

Speaker 1: 39:22

I've really surprised myself. I've surprised myself. Any mountain seems climbable. Now Any mountain seems climbable. I got to see Greece last night Amazing, so fun. It's so camp, so fun. And I was talking about swinging with some of the cast afterwards and I said for the first time in my career, my life really I'm being appreciated for what my brain can do and not what my body can do. And I didn't realize how rewarding that would feel, especially coming from a dancer's background. You get into a room and it's like how many turns can you do, how high can you kick, how pretty are you Before you know it? None of that matters, it's all about what your brain can do and to be valued for that for the first time ever. It's an amazing feeling.

Speaker 2: 40:08

That's so special I didn't even think of it like that.

Speaker 1: 40:10

It really is.

Speaker 2: 40:11

Yeah, hey, listeners, if you're interested in yoga, pilates or even becoming a yoga teacher, I highly recommend you come and check out the Australian Yoga Academy. It's located in the heart of Chapel Street in Melbourne, with daily yoga and Pilates classes as well as yoga teacher training to get you prepared to step onto the other side of the map. Whether you're here to be a teacher or not, you can come to the Australian Yoga Academy and find something for you. They also house Reiki, osteo and physiotherapy, and they're really just revolutionizing the way that we look at our bodies and also connect together as a community. Whether you're a beginner or a daily yogi, the Australian Yoga Academy has something for you.

Speaker 2: 40:54

The Dive Podcast is also filmed here and houses our sound therapy sessions each and every Monday. To receive up to 28 days of unlimited yoga and Pilates, go onto their website, wwwaustralianyogaacademycom today to check out their generous intro offers for yourself. Now that's enough from me. Let's get back to the episode. Well, going into the final question, I always love asking everyone, and that is if you had to give yourself any advice for when you were starting your career, what would that be?

Speaker 1: 41:30

I think it would definitely be. I have two. One is one is something that I would get tatted on my forehead if I could and it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Australian Theatre icon Brittany Page told me and that was easy to work with, happy to be here. That's her MO and I took that on board and it's I always refer back to that Easy to work with, happy to be here. It seems like so little, but when you're in this space it really means so much. That would be my huge one to like. Lock that in from day dot.

Speaker 2: 42:03

Especially when you get to a Sunday or a Saturday.

Speaker 1: 42:07

Monday Easy.

Speaker 2: 42:07

I love my job.

Speaker 1: 42:10

It's so special. And also, I think I said it before, just be your own biggest cheerleader you have to be. So many parts of my career I've really shot myself in the foot, really shot myself in the foot, because I haven't been my own biggest cheerleader. I remember I did, I got to do this. I straight out of acting school I got to do this TV show and I did it with, actually JK O'Brien he was phenomenal and I got to set and I'd actually missed the rehearsal day because I was really unwell. And I got to set and everyone knew what they were doing and I didn't. And I remember being like oh I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 42:50

I'm just Jack Blubber and I look back at the TV show and I'm like, oh God, I was so nervous, all because I told myself I can't do this. I don't know what I'm doing because I was waiting. I don't know what I was doing. Was I waiting for somebody else to tell me that I could? No, you have to be your own biggest cheerleader and the same with musical theater, waiting for someone to tell me I can, when really I just have to tell me that I can If I believe in myself. Like comes down to that thing trust. If they don't trust you in the audition room, you're not going to book the job. Okay. Well, how can you convince a whole panel to trust you if you can't even trust yourself? A bit of Dalu Lu is the Salulu. I love that, yeah that's the podcast episode.

Speaker 2: 43:36

Title Delusion is the solution.

Speaker 1: 43:38

I mean you constantly. You constantly seeing people and you go like wow, like if you can do it, so can I. That's it, and trust me, if I can do it, so can you.

Speaker 2: 43:50

Well, it's been awesome having you on. I'll definitely add in the show notes your handle on Instagram and if anyone has any questions for Jack, you can always email us at infoatthedivecomau.

Speaker 1: 44:00

Brilliant. Thank you so much for having me. It's been such an honor, so cool so welcome.

Speaker 2: 44:07

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode on the Dive Podcast. As always, if you have any questions for us, please share your highs and your lows of the week, or any questions to infoatthedivecomau. I want to hear from you and I'm excited that you're here. You're a performer, you are eager, and the fact that you're listening to this podcast means that you are ready for more. You're wanting to really make it in the industry, so why not go ahead and listen to a few more podcast episodes?

Speaker 2: 44:37

You can listen to them in order or you can just go back and look at the title and get that piece of information straight away. If you're looking for more, you can head to our website at wwwthedivecomau, which has weekly resources that are free to help you make a bigger impact as a performer on and off the stage, and also read up on our blog posts that are actually brought out weekly with the podcast. That kind of go into a bit more depth on how to navigate the challenges we explored in the podcast as well. So lots of things for you to go and explore. Right now. I'm Taylor Scanlon and I'll see you on the next episode.