The Dive Podcast

17: Samantha Dodemaide on Auditions, Training, Injury, and the True Nature of Comparison

• Samantha Dodemaide • Season 1 • Episode 17

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"You’re either right for the role, or you’re not. What's for you won't go past you."

In this engaging interview, Sam shares their journey in the performing arts, starting from their formative years at Patrick Studios Australia and Children's Theatre of Australia, to professional training in acting, singing, and dance.

They discuss the highs and lows of their career, including overcoming major injuries, dealing with self-doubt and comparison, and the importance of passion and work ethic over innate talent. The conversation is a testament to the resilience, dedication, and continuous learning required to succeed in the performing arts.

They talked about:

  • Their early training at Patrick Studios Australia and Children's Theatre of Australia.
  • Overcoming injuries, self-doubt, and comparison.
  • Emphasizing passion and work ethic over innate talent.
  • Dealing with performance anxiety and the pressures of auditions.
  • Advice for aspiring performers: continuous learning and perseverance.

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Speaker 1:

If 15-year-old Sam could know that this is what I was doing, I would be flipping out, In fact.

Speaker 2:

I do.

Speaker 1:

I'm so grateful that this is, and success is a really interesting thing to think about, because I don't know if I'm successful. I don't know what that is, but what I do know is I love it and that actually is the driving force of it. I love rising to a challenge without it taking away my confidence. I think it can be wobbly when you have to rise to a challenge and you're scared, but I love rising to a challenge when there's unknown in front of you.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the Dive. Now more than ever, we need to be finding ways to help us navigate the challenges of being an artist. You're listening to the Dive podcast, a show specifically designed for performing artists, to help you stop the stress and overwhelm and instead find ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. Ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. I'm a fellow performing artist and founder of the Dive, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Each and every week, we have a brand new guest on the show who is a professional in the industry to discuss their unique stories and help us tackle the industry challenges. To help you perform, rest and excel at your peak. I believe that we all have a unique story to share, but most of our struggles are common. So, without further ado, let's dive right in, let's get to work and create a career of a lifetime. Well, thank you for being on the show, sam. It's awesome to see you.

Speaker 1:

I'm very excited that you asked me.

Speaker 2:

Of course, and I was making a joke just before. A lot of the people that I get onto the show are obviously to help all of you performers out there kind of learn how do we navigate the challenges we face as artists. But also it's kind of um selfish for me. I just want to like meet up with everyone.

Speaker 1:

We were just saying that we don't even know the last time we were chatting in the same room together, where we're like hi, bye, great to see you.

Speaker 2:

You look great well done, congrats oh, it's so awesome and we actually met back when at Patrick Studios, australia, now the infamous Patrick School of the. Arts. Yes, and maybe that's a great way to kind of start with your training. I know you've trained in many places of you know, specifically even into acting and dialects and all of that. But did it really start at Patrick Studios for you or was there a?

Speaker 1:

little time before that. Yeah, we were having a love fest about how much we loved PSA. It did start. Before that, I think, my love of art started. I went to a musical theatre school called the Children's Performing Company of Australia, where I did a little bit of everything.

Speaker 1:

It was great for my passion and my love. But then I realised when I got to an older age that my skill level was pretty subpar and that I needed to really step it up. And in the search for what I was going to do, somehow I landed in the lap of Todd Patrick about to start Patrick Studios Australia. So it was in the first year that the school was founded. Wow, which was so long ago. Is that? Even when I was in the first year that the school was founded? Wow, which is so long. So long ago. Is that even when it was in that it was in a town hall in Balaclava?

Speaker 1:

yes like a little hall like a little station and it was tiny and I think there was only like 20 of us in our first year, like very, very small, the most incredibly talented kind, encouraging people you could be in in a year of training with, yeah, and I felt very far out of my depths. There was many days of crying afterwards, thinking what am I doing? I felt like I've had such a far way to go and I actually spent four years at PSA. It's only it was only a one-year course at the time.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, sometimes happens like that, yeah, and I just I just had this ambition to keep training until I was I don't know, until it felt right, until I was as as not as good as I could be, because I still don't feel like I'm as good as like, yeah, I feel like you can always grow. But until I was ready. And within those years a few little jobs or contracts did come sneak in and I kept being like, no, no, I feel like it's I need to stay within that. I did three years of full-time dance with PSA and with. While I was there, I was taking private singing lessons and going to acting studios and taking classes privately. So I felt like the right step for me was to be in an institution that focused on dance, because I feel like that's the discipline that needs the most amount of time in terms of like on the floor time. And then I sung every day and acted and did all those things outside of that, and for me that was the right combination.

Speaker 1:

I often get asked what school should I go to? What should I do? And it's so. I'll never tell someone you should go to PSA or you should go to WAPA, because it's so individual to how the person operates and works. I I think it was for me anyway and I've had so many. Obviously my foundation came from PSA and Todd Patrick guided me and loved me and cared for me so greatly, and I also had Andrew Hallsworth that was guiding me through my training and career. But then I had these amazing other people. Like I took class outside of PSA as well and had the amazing influence from people like Dana Jolly, rob Sturrick that I just loved learning from as well and really broadening that horizon. And my incredible vocal coach is Tim Smith and he has been my vocal coach since I was at that age and he's just he is my my god of voice.

Speaker 1:

I love him and he's done so much for me as a person and which is the same as Todd and as an artist and I studied with Colette Mann privately and went to lots of the different institutions, both here in Melbourne and in Sydney, because I lived in Sydney for quite a few years, so a real like selection of different training institutions and I think for me that was the best thing to take every different person that I met and then I continued learning when I was lucky enough to be in shows and would watch the people next to me and be like wow, like how do they do that? And just observed them so much so I felt like my training also came from that. And I still love training. I still love going to class, even though my confidence is sometimes a little shook and I don't feel like you know, I've still got lots of self-doubt that creeps in and maybe it's harder sometimes going to class when you're not a student.

Speaker 2:

But I still love it. I feel you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a thing. A little sidetrack note here. I know you mentioned Colette Mann, a little side story um that I. It's because of Collet man that I actually heard about PSA. So back when I was choosing whether to go back playing football or not, my dad just so happened to fix washing machines and dryers.

Speaker 1:

Hang on wait, you played football. Yes, okay, great, this is amazing. Yes, yes, I love this. Didn't know that.

Speaker 2:

No, and my dad just happened to have on call to go fix this woman's whatever it was I think it was a washing machine and it was at Colette Mann's house, you're joking. And then my dad being like, oh, he's got to do something. He's, you know, running around playing costumes and whatever and she's putting costumes on or running around naked or climbing a tree, had to be put somewhere. Basically, and I think maybe secretly he knew that maybe football was not the one.

Speaker 1:

He must have been young. How old were you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was like 13.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we would have met when you were like early teens, Young young, young.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, cut a long story short. Colette Mann suggested to go to PSA or talk to Todd Patrick, and that's literally how I left.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I loved his story. Yeah, literally because my dad got a call.

Speaker 2:

That could have easily been like oh I'm busy now. Just like how it all kind of aligned and serendipitous. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's amazing that you know we were able to connect from that school and a lot of people that we've been able to learn from and work with and study with as well? Was there a time where you, from after your training, that you worked straight away, or did you have a period where you didn't work?

Speaker 1:

that's tricky because I guess I kept training. Yeah, I was very passionate about wanting to do musicals and but I knew I had a lot of work to do and I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'm very hard on myself in that way. So it was kind of like oh, I used to have this saying in high school that was like you, ready for it. I don't know if I believe in this wholeheartedly now I went good, better best.

Speaker 2:

Forget about the rest.

Speaker 1:

That would be better. Never let it rest till your good is better and your better best. Now, part of that I still love and I'm like, yes, like that's drive and that's education and that's growth. And then a part of that was perfectionism, to be like, no, you're never good enough. So I think that within my training I was like, no, I just got to keep training, keep training.

Speaker 1:

But, as I mentioned, I think I did a couple of little like I did a production company show while I was at training and then I'd been offered a couple of contracts at the end of my third year of like, uh, one was at one of the Disney's and then I no, maybe that was my second year and then I didn't take that and I stayed one more year and then I got my first job, which was at Universal Studios Japan in the musical Wicked, so they did a condensed version of Wicked. Then I did a whole bunch of other shows while I was there as well, and it was the best choice, the best option for me. I loved my time in Japan. I loved Japan. How long were you there for?

Speaker 2:

about 12 months and I loved my time in Japan. I loved Japan. How long?

Speaker 1:

were you there for About 12 months and I loved what the contract taught me. It was really hard work because you do a number of shows a day.

Speaker 1:

It's like stop, start and you don't get the validation of doing in front of people that you know which I actually prefer now, later in my career and life, like I could perform for strangers every day of the week and in fact I actually don't like performing for peers and people I know because I get so nervous and so stressed out about that. It was really hard work and I made some lifelong friends and I really had time to grow and make mistakes and experience things and learn. And then I came back and I did the first year of the musical theatre course that PSA was developing that was um, led by Andrew Halsworth, at the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh wow. So you went away, had some experience working and then came back and even developed even more.

Speaker 1:

Was and I was more driven when I came back because the experiences I had while I was away really shaped what I really knew I wanted to do then and probably opened the door to be like, oh, I'm not so confident in this, I want to go and head back and work on this and I worked all that time on my dance skills and then I really wanted to hone in then on my vocals and my acting and also life experience as well, like that was it.

Speaker 1:

That's a big thing that I think has shaped. And you hear it like I used to hear it when people used to audition for drama school, like go get some life experience. And I'm like what does that mean? And now I am still having life experiences. But yeah, it does shape who you are as a person and therefore shapes who you are as a performer.

Speaker 2:

I think for sure. And then so you came back for just the one year to do the MT, was it yep?

Speaker 1:

and then I got my first job, which was like commercial touring show, which was a chorus line, and it was the most euphoric experience I remember seeing it. It feels like quite a long time ago. It was a long time ago.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was, but yeah what was that like?

Speaker 1:

It was incredible. And I understudied five or six of the principal roles. I mean, everyone's a principal in the show so I was a swing slash cover in it. It was really challenging. The perfection is a perfectionist in me has understudied a lot, but it's a tough show. It is a tough show, it's really challenging, but I love hard work, I love grit, I love I love rising to a challenge without it taking away my confidence. You know, I think it can be wobbly when you have to rise to a challenge and you're scared, but I love rising to a challenge without it taking away my confidence.

Speaker 1:

You know, I think it can be wobbly when you have to rise to a challenge and you're scared, but I love rising to a challenge when there's unknown in front of you and so that was very much that and I had the most amazing cast who I looked up to and I understudied the most amazing people and I learnt a lot about myself during that time.

Speaker 2:

I think I remember doing a class that I think you came back and taught like a chorus line.

Speaker 1:

I think we did it at the plumber street like oh, wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I still teach it now because it's just one of the most special shows, because it's our story. Yeah, it's a story of performers, and I connected to each and every of those characters that I understudied because a version of them was within me yeah, within a lot of us absolutely and then.

Speaker 2:

So you went on. I mean to do amazing things. You, I played in Wicked again, I think, didn't you? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

I did a version of it up on the Gold Coast at Hoda yeah however you like to say it, for Matt Ward Entertainment and that was incredible and it was like a full 180. I always wanted to play Alphabet and at first it was a funny story because I was like I can't do it, I can't do it. When suggestion of me doing, I was like no, I'm not good enough, I can't do it. And then I just loved it so much and it was so the right fit for me. So, yes, I did that. I did that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you did lots of other things. I mean, like you said, I don't know if you mentioned oh yeah, anything Goes as well and A Chorus Line and King Kong and all the list of things, and it's just been wonderful watching you and seeing you shine and seeing each other from afar, it is.

Speaker 1:

Different theatres along the way and look, if 15-year-old Sam could know that this is what I was doing, I would be flipping out. In fact, I do.

Speaker 2:

Like.

Speaker 1:

I'm so grateful that this is my job, and success is a really interesting thing to think about, because I don't know if I'm successful. I don't know what that is, but what I do know is I love it and that actually is the driving force of it. And there have been times where I haven't loved it or my fear or circumstances have dragged that down and self-doubt and things like that. But primarily, love always wins. Yeah, that's good, that's great that I think that that already is a quote.

Speaker 2:

Well, this is perfect. Going into maybe some of the topics now that you also experienced along your journey and things like comparison and even some injuries that you explored through your career, do you want to talk a little bit more about maybe some of those injuries and what they kind of? I think every injury shapes you differently and you get to learn a lot of different things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they're not always negative experiences at the time they are, but they always pass. And you know I've had a few people reach out to me cause they know I've had some injuries. So I think my two biggest injuries was when I was doing King Kong. Oh, both of them. I was doing King Kong and I broke my foot. I broke a bone in my foot and had to have it surgically removed because it shattered into a trillion billion pieces and I was told that I probably wouldn't dance again, that it was a pretty big injury and it was a lot for the age I was at and where my career was going. But I quickly pivoted and said that's fine, I'll do something else.

Speaker 1:

And I spent a whole year focusing on acting and singing and it's almost like I said okay, but no, you know, like I said, well, I might not dance but I'll do this. And that was a blessing and a curse, because it was a really hard time and it felt like everything just got ripped out from under me and I was still quite young I think I was 22, 23. And it took a year to recover from that. And also was the struggle of being in a company but not being in a company and trying to do the shows, but then feeling like I was failing at trying to do it. And then I really struggled with motivation over that year that I was injured, because it was fine at the start and then it became really difficult.

Speaker 1:

And I remember just sitting on the couch one day, just procrastinating, just staring out the window, being like watching I don't know birds outside for hours. I was like what are you doing? You know you could be using this time and that's really it's easier said than done. And actually, and I remember creating this little chart for myself and I had like Monday to Friday or Monday to Saturday, and I just had 30 minute slots and that, or 20 minute slots, and I said what do I want to work on for myself? And they weren't all to do with artistic areas. Some of them were read, you know, because I just was lost and I was feeling so sorry for myself instead of being proactive about this. And so so I put vocal lesson like sing, work on your dialects, read whatever it might be.

Speaker 1:

Making the structure for yourself, yeah, yeah, and you know, lo and behold, you get to ticking off the first one and oh, I was meant to sing for 20 minutes and I actually sung for two and a half hours. Okay, I was meant to read a play and I've actually read two, you know. So it actually was, and there was ebb and flow of that, but it had something that kept me accountable at the time. Again, it's a little bit blurry because I think my work I'd say ethic, but my work passion can drag it into a maybe a area where I work too much and I'm too dedicated to loving it but it was really helpful and then it healed eventually.

Speaker 1:

You know, you struggle for a few more months and I got into another show, which was Sweet Charity at the time, and I was very fearful of it. Yes, it hurt. Yes, I had to move through a whole bunch of other things and now it's a distant memory and a story that I tell. And then the second injury was a pretty crappy one. It was after the one and a half or two years of COVID we had just had and I just started rehearsals for Moulin Rouge. I had this new outlook on life and this passion for dance and I was so ready and I was so fit and I'd worked my butt off for the months leading up to that to really be prepared to not injure myself because I knew it was such a demanding show.

Speaker 1:

And I wanted to rise to the challenge and in week, week two or something I broke my rib. We were doing a lift and we're holding it for a really long time. I didn't feel it at first and I was like, oh, that's a little bit, that's a little bit tender. And then, as the days got on it, got worse and worse yeah and the panic of that one was a pretty awful experience especially in rehearsals yeah, it was a real kick in the teeth because I really was feeling passionate about this project.

Speaker 1:

I really felt wanted and validated not in the way of like. I felt like everyone in that show and in that company, in our creatives, made you feel so special and so thankful that we were there.

Speaker 2:

As individuals as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and so I was having the best time and then this happened and I was just like you've got to be kidding me, but I was the only person who benefited from COVID and the lockdowns, because it so happened that we got locked down for about 12 weeks. It took about 12 weeks to heal. I didn't come back as strong as possible, because when you've got a broken rib you can't do a lot.

Speaker 1:

but it all worked out fine and I dealt through a lot of tears, a lot of questioning, a lot of self-doubt, but in the end now it's another great story to tell and hopefully people are like oh okay, I'm injured too and it does, it's fine, and it's really common in what we do, because we're so physically demanding and it's so intense what we do Every day. There isn't a downtime unless you're unemployed, and even then you're still working towards the next project yeah, and then you obviously went on and did Milan Rouge for quite a long time two years and seven months, or something like that's a long show.

Speaker 2:

I mean specifically for Australia.

Speaker 1:

I mean I've never done a show that long and I never thought I would either. I thought I had about a nine month to 12 month kind of, because it would.

Speaker 2:

There was probably breaks where you signed again, was it or was it?

Speaker 1:

yeah, but like two weeks right but like not many, like not we didn't have, I think. Like I can't remember it wasn't like you've got a six week layoff, go have a great holiday. But that show was one of the most remarkable things to ever happen to my life. And the people, the creatives, the show itself, the company it was exactly what I needed at that time in my life and it was really hard work. So don't be fooled. Sometimes I was, you know. There was some times where I was literally taped head to toe and I would just be like tough show I look.

Speaker 2:

I remember watching and going. This is an amazing show. Not don't think it's for me and it.

Speaker 1:

I felt that in the audition I didn't audition at the start and I was just like oh well, it's a pop show and I thought I was a Broadway belter yeah show girl, and so I was like, well, they're not, I'm gonna open my mouth and they're gonna be stop singing, please, no.

Speaker 1:

And then the choreography was so dynamic, dynamic, so good, but really it was the music and the choreography that drew me into wanting to be a part of it, and going to this audition and then working with the team in the audition room is what won me over, and I remember saying, like thinking you know what? I didn't have any connection to it, other than that was the most incredible audition experience I've ever had. Thank you for giving me back a piece of remembering why I love this and what I can bring.

Speaker 2:

Isn't it special when you have experiences like that? I know now a lot of the auditions that I do as soon as I walk in, it's just this feeling when you're going, you're seeing a director, how they're talking, how they're maneuvering around the place, or even to the people at the front, that's, you know, reception and stuff.

Speaker 1:

It's all this team and you want it to be the right fit. I think and I'm learning that as I'm getting older is that I want someone to want me in their show as much as I want to learn from them and be in their show. And if that doesn't fit, I would rather not try and shove a square peg in a round hole because I think it's not enjoyable for all these. I want someone to feel passionate about working with me and be like yes, and I've really had that quite a bit in my career. I especially find it I've worked with Dean Bryant, andrew Hallsworth, matthew Frank a few times yes, those people are really like oh, mitchell Butel was amazing, like these people drew that passion out of me and said we love what you do, do what you do, and that was so empowering to be able to have. And Moulin Rouge felt that for me really like we're going to create your version and every person in the show had their version and then as a team, just loved it.

Speaker 1:

It always looks so much better it was amazing and I felt that from the very second I walked into the room.

Speaker 2:

How good yeah it was amazing.

Speaker 1:

It was amazing. I was very thankful for it Well.

Speaker 2:

I loved watching you, as ever, killing out on stage.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my little, my favourite blonde wig.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I loved it.

Speaker 1:

Blondes do have more fun, there you go.

Speaker 2:

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Speaker 2:

Now that's enough for me. Let's get back to the episode Coming into now. A little bit more about comparison, and we actually spoke a little bit about, you know, competition in the industry. What's your experience being with wearing constantly in an audition? You can feel competitive. It's certainly natural to compare yourself to other people.

Speaker 1:

Look, I can only speak from my experience and I really try to analyze the truth in what I feel in certain moments and I speak to. I love teaching full-time students full-time dance students in particular, but full-time students who want a career and that's where I feel like when I'm teaching, my expertise can lie, because I'm like, oh, I've experienced this. It might not resonate with you and it might not feel right for you, but I've experienced it. So I'd love to share my versions of this. And I think comparison, along with self-doubt, are the killers of artistic creation and artistic thriving, and I think that people need confidence and I think that you can take your confidence away yourself or you can give it over to someone, and sometimes you can't help that and sometimes you can. But I, I think, with comparison, I have felt and if I'm going to be really, really honest, very little comparison to other people, more so to myself. And if I have felt comparison to another person, it's usually me saying they're just so much better than me, you know, and not in a negative way and not in a derogatory way to that person and their skills. I'm always just like why would you possibly want me when you could have that person. So, and I think everyone's version of comparison is very different. Other people might not feel that, and I think it's important to be honest about that, you know, because it is a part of we literally line up next to each other and they say which person do we want? But from my experience now and I'm not a creative, so I have been in audition rooms, which I find very fascinating and to see, I think I auditioned terribly. I'm always so nervous. Auditions and opening night are just. If I could skip those two things it would be a very great life for me. But I don't know. So I can only talk on what I feel and what I think, and I think that you're really actually never in competition with anyone. That's the crazy thing. So I wish I could tell myself that, because I think that we're so different as people.

Speaker 1:

Even if someone has the same skill set as you, same image as you, same similar personality traits, innately, when you walk into a room, you're either right for the role or you're not. And if they do even have two people, there is one person who's meant to play that role. Of course, maybe you can get that wrong, but then it's not for you. Then something else, and I've always thought that what's for you won't go past you, and there have been jobs that maybe I thought I'm so right for this or I hope that I do well, and then you get cut straight away and that's fine and it's still upsetting, but then you've got to go. Oh no, because if that's not for me, there is something else.

Speaker 1:

And then I've gotten jobs where I'm like, why me? Oh, that's the wrong choice on your behalf. But then it's been the most amazing experience and I was like, oh, I was the right person for it. So I think being honest about comparison and I'll throw in self-doubt there as well is really important and to talk about it. But also we have to do a lot of work on ourselves as performers. And gosh, I'm not. I'm far from perfect and I've got so much more work to do, but my comparison lies in thinking that everyone else is more worthy of something than probably I am, and that's nor here nor there.

Speaker 1:

It's just something I experienced. And then I think, going back to having the right match of things, the right people around you, the right friends, the right mentors, it can dissipate a little bit, like I love, there can be versions of comparison, like, if you're in a dance class, you don't want comparison and you don't want competition. You want a version of competition that's filled with love and passion, because I want to dance next to someone that's really good. I want to dance with the people that are better than me. There is no better. I want to dance with people that are different to me, because we actually are, and I look and I go. That's amazing. I want to learn from you and I truly think that that is my truth.

Speaker 1:

I've definitely compared myself and said, oh, that person's so much better than me, or this person. And then my amazing singing teacher, tim Smith how many times I've talked about how much I doubt myself. And he'll be like, yeah, but you're different and you have different qualities. And, yes, you might not be Beyonce, though I really wish I was or you know, you might not be this person or like this person but, you're you and what you can do, other people probably envy as well and think of the same thing.

Speaker 1:

And so when you have that epiphany and realise that we all have a gift, that's different and can share it kind of releases that comparison and that competitiveness to be like, oh there's, I know this is such a like lame thing to say, but there is room for everyone. There really is.

Speaker 2:

And a different time for different people. Amazing. I mean, yeah, tick, tick. I mean that's great. We've had a few different people talk about comparison and, as always, it's always your own experience and that's all we can you know, absolutely expect. But I love that you put that in a lot of the things we think we're comparing ourselves, we're really just doing it towards ourself and that in our and our insecurities.

Speaker 1:

Like we are riddled. No, I am riddled. I won't say we with insecurities.

Speaker 2:

You know Well, I think you're not alone. I think a lot of people are 100%.

Speaker 1:

It's funny because I've talked to full-time students and it doesn't go away. You learn to manage it better and you learn you ebb and flow go away and in fact it can grow in some areas. So you know, when I'm sitting there listening to a class of students singing for me, I say are you nervous? Because I would be if I had to sing. Stand up and sing for you right now.

Speaker 1:

I would be extremely nervous, I'd be doubtful yeah and you might be sitting there as a student looking at the teacher or the mentor thinking, well, you're amazing, you wouldn't be. You've done this, this and this, but no, actually we're all. And it happens when you go back to an audition room, you all start on the same yes, playing field. It's no different and it's the same, I think, for creatives and producers and everyone. Everyone is just as nervous, or, you know, trying to create something that's starting from the start yes, amazing, and that's so good that you can.

Speaker 2:

I think a lot of people will get a lot out of hearing that that we're all starting at the same level when we go back to auditions and we're all still battling our own insecurities.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Do you know every audition I go into? I just had an audition a few months ago and I was very chill about it. I was like, yeah, I'm not going to get this, so like this is a good experience, I should go into auditions. I just knew it wasn't right, but I was like I love this song, this is going to be nice. I know the team's sitting there. Hi guys, this is so nice. I was more excited about like you know seeing people.

Speaker 1:

And I stood on the X and I had a dress on and my knee started shaking and I was like you've got to be kidding me, why am I nervous? I'm not nervous about this, but my body had this visceral feeling that I was like okay, it looks like I'm still nervous, and I've been on opening nights that the same things happen, and so it's just important to remember that maybe it looks like we've all got our stuff together, but we don't.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely not. We don't. It doesn't change and I think, if anything, over the shows that we do and people do, you just get to learn to be more reflective and more aware of how you are, so that you don't let these things start to control you derail you and control you and that's the thing, and you and you want that balance in life where you can still let it affect you.

Speaker 1:

You can still cry about something, you can still feel angry or sad or anxious, but then taking a deep breath and being like, okay, we'll, we'll feel this and then pass through it coming in back into your career?

Speaker 2:

have you had an experience with performance anxiety? I know you were saying about like opening nights you get anxious and stuff. Has there um been specific moments where you've experienced that and maybe, how? Maybe today you go about performance anxiety?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've ebbed and flowed through that and that all comes down to confidence, really, and for me, for me, it's the confidence I have in myself and the self-doubt. I'm a very critical thinker of myself and I will constantly and I reckon so many people can resonate with this 10 people could say you were amazing and I'm like, oh, I don't want to hear that. That makes me feel uncomfortable. But tell me more. But no, I'm like, oh, really Like, oh well, thank you, I feel really honoured that you think that, but it doesn't feel what's important to me then.

Speaker 1:

I can hear one negative thing one negative thing and I'm like yeah, I was like I'm terrible, I should quit, and do you know how many times I've said I should quit, I'm terrible? And someone like Todd Patrick's been on the phone being like you're not quitting, you're gonna be fine, and oh, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that and I wish that I had this like miracle quote to be like. But I don't. And I still get nervous and I still worry about not being good enough for what people are going to think and I hope that one day, by just being even open about that, I can release that. And I always say to myself on opening night why I get so worried. I guess it's because I care. It's because I deeply love what I do and I'm passionate about it and I don't care about being the best, but I care about doing service to myself and the peace and the people around me.

Speaker 1:

So I think I always feel on opening night don't disappoint the people that gave you this chance, the people that believe in you and don't disappoint yourself. But then, if you analyse that disappoint, what? What's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to forget your lyrics, you'll sing a bung note, you'll fall over. All of those things I've done many of times.

Speaker 2:

Yes, same here, and they're actually funny.

Speaker 1:

So really, if I came off opening night, I was like, how about the fact that I forgot the lyrics to Defying Gravity? That didn't happen, but so it did Like, okay, then that's what happened. And then I'll sit in a podcast one day and be like well you know what I did one day.

Speaker 1:

So I'm trying, that's what I'm trying to it doesn't. It still doesn't take out the internal feeling I mean, and you can do all the other things. I'm just slapping it down with the truth of like I don't know. But then there is breathing techniques and Ryan Gonzalez, who played opposite me, who's one of my bestest friends, and I just adore every part about them on and off stage. Would Wim Hof? Use the Wim Hof breathing technique a little and like they would always encourage me to join in with them and I was like this could be so helpful, but I can't do it, you know

Speaker 1:

like they were so Zen and centered in that, so they would always be really calm in stressful situations and I would come off stage like, did you feel my shaking? Did you feel my leg shaking? And they're like, yes, they're a very good influence, but you know, like different people use different things and I don't know what that is yet. And but I think, acknowledging that it exists, and also again, that everyone feels the same thing, no matter how much experience, and would have a different element of it, some people can be really chill and cool on an opening night but I don't care and that they might have something else, that they have to battle along the journey at a different time and everyone's going through different things

Speaker 2:

yeah, 100 well, to finish off. I mean, we've explored so many different things from you know injury on a show, comparison, competition, self-doubt, anxiety, all of the things that we all go through. Just to finish off, I'd love to ask final question, and I ask this to everyone, and that's if you had to give any advice to younger Sam that's just starting out what would that be?

Speaker 1:

yeah, I find this question really difficult because I remember young Sam so well and it would probably be what I say to full-timers, full-time dance students, full-time performing arts students. This is my belief, and there's probably directors, musical directors, choreographers, producers out there that are like we don't believe that, but I actually don't think a career in the arts has anything to do. Here's my big bomb.

Speaker 1:

I'm loving it. My students will be like yeah, she said that a million times with skill. I just don't. I don't think it has anything to do with talent, and the reason I say it has to do with passion, work, ethic, love of it and dedication, because I think that skill and talent can come from those things. Yes, some people are born with this incredible genius talent. Unfortunately that wasn't me, but I was born for a love of it. So, again, I can only share with people what I know and what I've experienced, and another person would think the opposite, but I think if you love something enough and you're passionate about it and you want to share that, then it forced me to work hard. So I think I whether I would tell myself that, I think I already knew that.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I think that that was my thing. I grabbed onto and helped me not compare in times that I would, because it's like well, that's that person's journey.

Speaker 1:

I would just say to her it's going to work out. Have the mistakes. I would try to take away a bit of my perfectionism, which I still do now. Fail, fail, fail, fail and whatever version of that is for you. You know I do now. Fail, fail, fail, fail and whatever version of that is for you. You know, I don't know what failure is for each different person. I can probably guess what it feels like for me, but actually it's never failure, it's growth because, you need those times that feel hard.

Speaker 1:

You know our industry is full of the lowest of lows and the highest of highs. There ain't much in between probably why everyone during COVID was like, oh, I can just relax now for a second. But yeah, I think that I think that's what it would be yeah, it's wonderful.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for sharing everything today. I know a lot of people are going to get so many different things out of it and if you have any questions for myself or Sam, you can email us, as always at info at the divecomau. Thank you for being here here. You're the best.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, you've been listening to the Dive Podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. For more resources, tools, techniques and tips, you can head to our website, wwwthedivecomau. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review for us, and if you feel like this episode could resonate with anyone else in your network, feel free to share it online or share it with a friend directly. Be sure to check us out on Instagram with the handle at thedivecomau, where we come on each week and share a little bit more about the behind the scenes of the podcast and any upcoming workshops, classes and offers with the Dive. Until next time, I hope that you stay passionate, keep showing up and just know that if you're going through challenges right now, it's going to be so worth it when you are in a show and living your dream.