The Dive Podcast

18: Reigniting Passion And Purpose For Your Training with Zoe Marsh

• Zoee Marsh • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Are you feeling lost in the noise of today's dance world? 🌍 

This week, Zoe Marsh dives deep into how dance education has evolved and what it means for dancers today. From the importance of training for yourself to finding joy in every movement. 

Taylor & Zoe talked about:

  • Transitioning from basketball to dance and embracing it as a passion.
  • The rigorous training regimen in the dance world and its evolution alongside social media.
  • Rediscovering the joy of dance through authentic expression and finding one's fit in life.
  • The dedication and time required for success in any field, particularly in dance.
  • Navigating the challenges of the digital age and adapting to new career paths
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Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

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Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Speaker 1:

People stand there waiting for the information that they've been given. Being the choreography I'm like this is amazing.

Speaker 2:

And holding it like it's a contract, or they die. Yeah, they're like frozen.

Speaker 1:

I'm like dance, Dance. Why are you here?

Speaker 2:

Let's dance.

Speaker 1:

Move it's just music.

Speaker 1:

At the end of the day, this was your hobby. At the end of the day, this was your friend. At the end of the practice, just meeting where you are every day through dance, through asana, through whatever it is, the more you can remind yourself of why you dance and come back to your relationship with it. I really believe that solves all the problems, because it's it's healthy. You've got to feed your dance, you've got to feed your art like you've got to connect with it. I really believe that solves all the problems, because it's healthy. You've got to feed your dance, you've got to feed your art, you've got to connect with it. You can't just expect from it.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the Dive. Now more than ever, we need to be finding ways to help us navigate the challenges of being an artist. You're listening to the Dive podcast, a show specifically designed for performing artists, to help you stop the stress and overwhelm and instead find ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. I'm a fellow performing artist and founder of the Dive, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Each and every week, we have a brand new guest on the show who is a professional in the industry to discuss their unique stories and help us tackle the industry challenges. To help you perform, rest and excel at your peak. I believe that we all have a unique story to share, but most of our struggles are common. So, without further ado, let's dive right in, let's get to work and create a career of a lifetime. Well, welcome to the podcast, zoe. It's awesome to have you in, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

Of course, we've known of each other for a long time. I mean, I don't even know. The first time I met you Was I doing one of your classes, or were we doing?

Speaker 1:

This is really showing our age.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I feel like I saw you maybe in an event or something.

Speaker 1:

Back in the day when there was like all of those, like showcases, yes, and like Paul Malik's Underground or things like that, yes, I'd say Immersed, immersed. It was somewhere It'd have to be like 10. Or plus.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's go with 10. Let's go with 10. 10's good, 10's great, awesome. And I mean this podcast, like we were just talking about before, is all about just helping performing artists from all walks of life, uh, you know, learn about the challenges we face as artists. But before we get into all of that, I would love to you know, paint a picture of you know who's Zoe, and where did you train? Where did it all kind of start for you as a performer? True, yeah, where did it start? Yeah, where did it start? Did you always want to be?

Speaker 1:

no, I can dance or no, it was like dance was a band-aid because, um, I actually played basketball but I didn't grow. I was too short, like the dot points are. I loved basketball. I've always been active, yeah, like from netball to basketball, to swimming, to tennis, like everything, like diving at school like swimming team kind of vibes yeah and I really loved basketball. And then when I hit that like 14, kind of like year seven, year eight, yeah, rough age, everyone was growing and I'm really short so and I started getting quite like, not quite injured, but it was playing with danger.

Speaker 1:

Everyone's sitting in puberty and I was just looking like I was in prep and, even though I could run away, yeah, um. And then my best friend who's still one of my best friends to this day olivia, she was like you should come to dancing, and it fell on the same nights.

Speaker 1:

You know like it was like two days on my basketball nights okay so I went to dance just and I didn't want to wear a leotard. I remember I was complaining about the tights. I was so over it. Yeah. But it was very like recreational, still solid, like good routines, good troops, but there wasn't a whole lot of technique or anything, I just kind of you were more into the basketball or like it was just kind of a side thing it was just it, just cause I couldn't play basketball, anymore, oh right.

Speaker 2:

So it just because I couldn't play basketball anymore? Oh right, so I was on the nights. Oh okay, so it was on the same nights, same nights.

Speaker 1:

So then I did the dancing, but it was just very recreational and fun. And then I changed this is in Geelong and then I changed schools. I picked it up quickly. I also think it's just like my personality, like when I like something, I go all the way in. Yeah, then in year 11, I changed to a different school. It was someone new in town and again it wasn't like extremely technical with like ballet syllabus. I'd never done any like proper technical training. I just couldn't pick up where things needed to be and we just kind of were like this is a turn, but no one really broke it down, right, anyway.

Speaker 1:

And then, yeah, I learned from this teacher who was from the Philippines and he taught like four to five eights at a time, oh wow, and showed you like once.

Speaker 2:

Okay. And I frothed it you loved it Because I was like give it to me.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to pick this up.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Like I'm a quick learner, right so that he asked that much of me it fueled like this different fire in me and then, well, you felt probably challenged. I felt so challenged yeah, obviously like if he'd done a ballet class for me I would have been like so challenged, yeah, but, um, I could navigate my way around and then from there I left school, high school early, from one year and the school was really supportive and I went to dance world full time and that's when I really had to train the abs of dance and like was a bit of a shock going from that to that.

Speaker 1:

It was the biggest shock. I don't even know how I got in. I remember my ballet audition was really poor and the jazz. I could like fluff around with like performance, but I could tap like I'm a strong tapper, oh wow. I just didn't know that yeah, I was like that's like the first thing I properly like honed in on. Yeah, I had a very amazing tap teacher, chase Rossiello, who went to be a tap dog. Yes.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, and I remember tapping in my audition for Dance World and I think that's what got me across the line A little bit of tap. Yes, great. So then I went to Dance World for a year, six days a week. What was that like Monday to a week? What was that like monday to thursday? I stayed back for a lot of the evening classes because I had a lot of catching up to do so.

Speaker 1:

It was like nine to nine oh wow, and then fridays was catching up as in like technique wise, yeah, like I was in with the junior school in like grade three rad right did they suggest that, or were you just like I need to do this?

Speaker 1:

they suggested yeah, they were like you need, you need to train more, great. And I just was like, well, I'm here, and then I went up on a Saturday to do all the junior school classes. So it was a big shock to the system and I was traveling from Geelong on the V line so I was up at the crack of dawn Every day, every single day. Oh wow, brittany Nation Academy. Who's? Still one of my closest, like dearest friends to this day. She lived in Hobbs Crossing, so we both.

Speaker 1:

Her journey was much closer, but it was still far from you know we're 17 years old, so I used to stay at her house a bit and, like my mum, became friends and was always going to stay with you for two nights?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but a lot of you know on the country Victorian line into the city making it happen.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it was termination.

Speaker 2:

I feel like there's a lot, um, I don't know if it's post-covid or what kind of happened is. Maybe you can agree or not. But like dance teaching recently has felt like I really have to bring things out of people, like really trying to bring I don't know it's hidden um energy or something to their feeling like you have to, you have to yeah not with every class, but it feels like that's kind of like a common thing.

Speaker 2:

There's not. I'm here, I'm ready, I'm here early and I'm ready to go, like yeah, I don't know if that's just like what I was experiencing when I was training, but well, when I yeah, well, when we were training, I was like first in, last out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, every day of the week, yeah, that was it. I was up all night practicing. What do you think's shift like since then all? Oh, there's so many, so many things that I think could contribute yeah uh the phone being one okay because, like we kind of touched on this before, but I used to watch youtube yes, I mean I still do, but like, and with britney we'd go home after like a 12 hour day and then we get on to the millennium dance yeah, it's a pretty fast like montana flask yeah montana's sister.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I did full-time with montana I've known mons and she was like a wee little one.

Speaker 2:

Wow, I think I've reached their place like once. Yeah. Yeah, great See, we're going way back. There you go, we're connected somehow.

Speaker 1:

But the only thing that we watched digitally of dance was music videos. Where you like, wait for Saturday morning or watch the recaps. Yeah. Or YouTube and it would be like one class video and we'd learn the class videos, or we'd be learning the music videos like that's as far as dance was.

Speaker 1:

So then you wanted to get there exactly so, like when you're in the studio, it's in the studio, and when it was groups, it was about giving it a go and taking on the correction. I'm not saying that's not anymore, but I feel like the focus could be let's do groups so you can get the footage to put it on your instagram, where we're flooded with dance, which I think has a pro and con. I'm not dissing it yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm just saying, like the lens has changed of how you take class, because I never went to a class thinking I was going to get a video out of it no. I went to class to be like I'm going to show my teacher my improvement, or myself, or like I'm going to stick that triple turn today. You know like I want that front position.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sorry, but I do I was like let's go, yeah, and the only chance of filming was like if you bought your dance comp dvd, like to see you dance, otherwise it was never really yeah, and then at the end of the year you'd get your showcase dvd.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you had to wait like six months to get it yeah you didn't just get it like this.

Speaker 2:

No, and I guess I maybe then feel possibly you trusted maybe the teachers more because if you didn't have a film to look back and judge yourself, you really had to just give maybe your all and listen to your teachers 100 keep going to keep it and also listen to yourself, because I still, to this day, when I teach class, I'm like a hawk in the mirror.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm like wait, my shoulders are lit yeah that's where it is like I'm like, yeah, where? Like again, I think maybe it's just the lens that I have, but when people are these days, uh, dancing maybe from the place of getting something in return to post which again I'm sitting on the fence here, but I think it does change how you take class or takes changes while you go to class.

Speaker 1:

And then, when you're taking class is the seed of your intention to get the video or to actually like watch yourself in the mirror and get the line and do this and then going to groups and not be practicing on the side, so you're all good when you go on the floor but watching someone and go okay, that person's going really low, that person's hitting that really.

Speaker 1:

Whoever the teacher's watching, I was watching. I was like why are you watching them? Yeah. I want that Exactly. They're obviously doing something right. Yes, and I feel like you learn better. Yeah. Because it's not so interrupted the pandemic. That obviously is a very different experience to people learning online and everything. But I don't really teach too much dance to dance students anymore, Right, Taking a big kind of step back Like I'll do pop-ups and stuff, but I have.

Speaker 1:

This is not the first time I've heard this that it's like yeah, we used to be there and I'd finish school and if I had a night off, I was at every open class. Yes, and I know people say, oh, I don't have enough money. I'm like I, I know, but we also. I mean, this is like gonna fully go into another direction, but we weren't spending our money on this. Like, no, we're spending less money.

Speaker 1:

Like, yeah, their their day-to-day needs of a human have increased so much from like just things, even on the phone, streaming platforms and stuff. And then there's like we're gonna get a coffee, we're gonna get brunch.

Speaker 2:

We were not getting brunch no, we were like noodle cups and straight up.

Speaker 1:

You're like banana and sticking an almond in it. I was like I'm going to class, you know, and and again, it's like no right or wrong, but it's just different, like the intention was class and you know, I went home and I'm on the ad breaks holding right leg splits. That's ad break, left leg split, like yes, that's just because I needed to yeah there was, just like you have to make it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's that right that that running thing of like no one's coming. I feel, I don't know, maybe there's that sense of now it's almost over, stimulation of you get told exactly what to do, how to look, do you have a laduka boot on do you have your head? Like everything, you get told what to say how. I've said it this many times on the show. But with that overstimulation we've kind of lost that humanness and that part of ourselves that.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean, why do we all dance? Yes, I'm always curious to see all these people coming through these full-time institutions, which is great. I love that everyone's dancing. But I press play and people stand there waiting for the information that they've been given. Being the choreography I'm like this is.

Speaker 2:

And holding it like it's a contract, or they die. Yeah, they're like frozen.

Speaker 1:

I'm like dance. Why are you here? Let's dance, move, it's just music, like at the end of the day, this was your hobby. At the end of the day, this was your friend. At the end of the day, this was this is your favorite thing to do when you're at primary school or high school, potentially, and maybe for the majority, right. So lead with that, but I feel like it's just so deep. It's just, the world has changed a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And dance has changed a lot now, because when I was young, it was like well, when we were younger, we're still young, you know, like when you would ask what do you want to do, like what do you want to be what? When you were asked what do you want to do, what do you want to be, what kind of dancer do you want to be, I wasn't looking at someone on my phone. No, I was either watching them on stage or I was in a class that they were in, or they were in some music video, but it was fleeting.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't see them all the time, no, so it just kept me on me.

Speaker 2:

And people that you watch were who you wanted to be, like. They were like already in a plate, like they were performing on big stage and stuff like that. So I guess, now that the overflux of now everyone's just in every class doing everything, maybe there's that pressure of, well, if I don't look like that, then I'm not succeeding, or I'm not.

Speaker 1:

I don't know enough, I don't know and I'm not, I don't know enough, I don't know. And I'm also curious, like just throwing this question out there. Like the numbers of the followers and the likes do influence dance now, and I'm not saying it's good or bad, but does it change the psyche of a dancer thinking, if I create a digital profile for myself that's like at a place that gives me clout, is that how I'm gonna get a job? Like I don't know my answers, I don't know, but I'm like does it have an effect on how and why someone shows up to train?

Speaker 2:

like, like you said, the industry is changing, so maybe, like the next question is kind of going more like okay, how can we now live in today and kind of use it to our advantage, I guess as well along the you know, along the way with the filming, because a lot of auditions now that I've been in are all filmed oh yeah so I don't know if there's that added pressure, we're going to film in class and now we're going to an audition. That's filmed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah I definitely think that, yeah, there is added pressure, but I feel like maybe it's that what we need to water or feed more is your relationship to dance or art or singing or acting or performing. Like if you're only going to these classes to only be seen by the person who's going to give you a job, that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, what moves us as an audience is how you make me feel, is how you show me what you're going through, what you're expressing, and if you can't tap into the human part of yourself while you're dancing, I really think that is where the line is. If you get hired or not, you know like, so feed your hobby, go dance for yourself, go to a show by yourself, go to a class you've never done like, put yourself in the beginning in the student environment again. So you're like oh my God, I remember this feeling. I was like I want to get this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like a new teacher, someone that you've not worked with before.

Speaker 1:

Go, get out of your comfort zone and don't document it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know like, if you, if you have a specific like profile that you need to maintain because that's your job, respect it, love it, do it, but behind closed doors, in your private time. Go and take a salsa class. Yeah, go to the night cat on a sunday. Ask some man to be like can you teach me how to salsa? Because it's it dances connection, it's passion, it's community. But I think maybe when we get too far into it being a career, that's what we're missing. It's like the joy, the love of it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because it's so good it is, I love it so much. It actually reminds me of when I was learning to become a yoga teacher. There's these yoga sutras and basically tells you that there's eight different limbs of ourselves and when you're doing yoga, you got your asana, which is the physical practice, and that's what I'm kind of seeing. Your asana, which is the physical practice, and that's what I'm kind of seeing bringing in a bit of yogi.

Speaker 2:

You know, philosophy here is that we're focusing so much on the physical that we're forgetting that we are these, like multi-dimensional humans that are capable of so many different things, from our breath to our motion, to how we feel, to like all these other elements, and I think if we only focus on one, we're only getting one dimension of you straight up yes, like it's a practice.

Speaker 1:

It's a dance practice.

Speaker 1:

Yes, class and then to learn, but I feel, like I feel from experience and visibility is that we're trying to be dance perfect instead of dance practice yes so then it's like if you're striving for perfection A it doesn't exist, absolutely not and B you're getting further and further away from the joy of the practice just meeting where you are every day through dance, through asana, through whatever it is like through singing I am absolutely no singer, but you best believe I sing every day. Yes, like what's going on today, like let me just meet that, let me see that, let me feel that. So then, when I go into rehearsal or I'm dancing, I dance for myself every day. But if it's specifically for work, I'm like what am I feeling? What's the feeling? This job they want us to have fun.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I'm not going to do one e and a, two e and a, three, four, five, six e and a.

Speaker 1:

Yeah it's not fun for anyone. Like do you know me, when you've got a short window like this and the person at home's gonna go, that's very complex. They're not gonna be like I want to do that, they're gonna go, I'm impressed, but I'm far away. So lead with fun, yeah, but if you're back in class trying to get this career and you're, it's from fear, not love, and there's no fun. Like it comes back to the practice of just why are you dancing? Just dance, yeah, just just go, or go out dancing.

Speaker 2:

Don't even dance in a room yeah go listen to some live music and feel the drums in your body, play a song and actually move to how you naturally express yourself as you hear the song. Yes, instead of waiting for that cue to be like, this song is now making you feel like this maybe people aren't.

Speaker 1:

That's a practice, that's missing, missing you know like yeah just feel it. They're like what do you mean? Yeah I need, I need you to tell me it's like well, try it on, try it on try it something I say a lot. I'm like let's just try it on. If you don't like it, put it back on the hangar.

Speaker 2:

I love that. You don't have to buy it. Just try it on, just try it on, Just put it you know, let's try on this can of eight. Maybe you?

Speaker 1:

want an XL.

Speaker 2:

you know, Maybe you want a small in it and tell me if you can work with it. Yes, you don't like it, return it. I'll put it on the hanger. We don't have to investigate it again. I love that, but just try it on. Try it on like, let it just feel into it a little and let yourself feel like, yeah, basically feel and give yourself space to yeah. I think again, with the online, everything's now now. Now everyone wants the job now and they're kind of letting go. It takes time. Oh my god, it takes so much time. It takes years and takes so much dedication and hard work and strong work ethic. I think that's kind of missing. When people are seeing just one 30 second clip, you're not really seeing the hours.

Speaker 2:

No, you know no doing the extra class after there or you know. None of that's documented. So if you're maybe watching it and you're feeling a bit defeated and you feel like you're doing enough, just try and you know, maybe put the phone down and reflect on you know what you can do and maybe do less of and maybe focus in something, maybe a bit different Sometimes like a good book.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if you're an avid reader, but sometimes and maybe focus in something totally, maybe a bit different, sometimes like a good book. I don't know if you're an avid reader, but sometimes and maybe anyone that uh is listening you grab a book sometimes and you read first page and just doesn't work for you and I always say, great, it's what you need. The information you need from a book is always right, like whenever you pick up a book and you just can't stop reading. That's exactly the message you would need at that point. So if you're opening a book and it's not working, grab another book because there's something out there for you. But I think that really relates to you. Know, if you're going into a style and you're giving so much attention and you're having that resistance, maybe just putting the book down, trying something else, like you said, just all of a sudden, even if you are in full time and you don't have that option to not do it, just go to that added class go to something silly, do a static dance or whatever get out of the mind a little bit because sometimes it's

Speaker 2:

those little pauses that we need 100.

Speaker 1:

And also, just to circle back to you're saying about, you maybe see something on your phone and it's hot, it's amazing, amazing, it's blowing up your phone. Don't measure your journey against a 30-second reel, as much as it's like, maybe so much easier to say than to practice. But that's also maybe a practice that we can work on because, like you said, it doesn't represent the before and after and everything in between.

Speaker 2:

But don't measure your experience against that I mean personally, I've always seen things as like a challenge. If I'm looking at someone that's smashing it, I'm like let's go. I want to talk to you. What are you doing? How can I do that like, let it become your actual fuel. You know that weakness of thinking that. Oh, you know. And maybe look at yourself. How long have you been on that phone watching yourself when you could have been doing, you know, ballet or like could have gone to a class, you know sometimes we need to put the reflection back on us well, this is yeah, because you're

Speaker 1:

not going to improve by just sitting there, and it's yeah, it's not going to happen for you, but also, I think a lot. Yeah, I just like, just like wonder. I'm very curious and, as maybe a young person today like my brother, there's 12 years difference between us and we've spoken about how he doesn't know a phone before the iPhone.

Speaker 1:

It blew my mind. I was like what? And he's like? I was like true, actually True. So then, if you think about we're going back to the dance world, so someone who's only ever grown up with everything is at here. It was like I remembered all my friends phone numbers, their addresses their mom and dad's names. Yes, then you do the three-way call and you're like I'm going to call this person, we're going to. What are we going to do the weekend, mom, can I do this like you had?

Speaker 2:

to remember so much on the phone if the internet's on exactly all that stuff, right, you had to wait.

Speaker 1:

There was so much more patience because we didn't couldn't access everything. So then in turn, as a student, right, you have more patience and you have to like, collect more you understand that there's that takes time it takes time.

Speaker 1:

It's not gonna happen like this, but then maybe someone who is younger, who is like new to dance, just, and who's always had everything they need here, and then they go to try to do something. It doesn't work like I'm not surprised that maybe they might feel disheartened or feel like they're failing if they're not getting it straight away. Yeah, so it's just like I hope they know that it's like, oh, years of like years, just it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop like you're never going to and then when you start, anywhere actually you start performing and you are working.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't stop it doesn't stop.

Speaker 1:

It's insane, like there is no destination. It's like you just have to be in your practice, whatever it is right now, and take it for exactly what it is and don't compare it to yesterday's class or even the class before yours or even the round before yours. You know these people come in and go. Oh, I don't like doing turns on the left, I'm like don't make that your story yeah, because that's just what you're repeating. This is what you're putting out there, so of course you're not gonna like the left yes you're telling everyone to like the left.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you're telling everyone everything back to that multidimensional human beyond the physical. We don't like the left side. They're like noted.

Speaker 2:

Noted.

Speaker 1:

We're all going to fall and give you some more bad memories in the left side, just to add fuel to that story. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, yes, you can put your hand up and ask to go to the toilet when we get to the left side, you know, to the left side. Oh, you know, we've all done it. Well, we're like it's like. We need to know that, like you are the creator of your own life, of your own experience. So, just like, create the moment, don't try to be anywhere. Just like be here, just do it. If you fall over, it doesn't really the world will still turn like it really it's not going to change but some people really think it's going to be the end of the world.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, we've all had that like, if I don't get this, it's over.

Speaker 2:

It's so dramatic yeah, it's like if an audition comes up, you don't see that there's another date, possibly past this date of audition, because it's such a lead up. Oh, I think you don't get it. And you see outside and it's sun shining and yeah you gotta go to your job and it's like exactly.

Speaker 2:

hey, listeners, if you're interested in yoga, pilates or even becoming a yoga teacher, I highly recommend you come and check out the australian yoga academy. It's located in the heart of chapel street in melbourne, with daily yoga and pilates classes as well as yoga teacher training to get you prepared to step onto the other side of the map. Whether you're here to be a teacher or not, you can come to the Australian Yoga Academy and find something for you. They also house Reiki, osteo and physiotherapy, and they're really just revolutionising the way that we look at our bodies and also connect together as a community. Whether you're a beginner or a daily yogi, the Australian Yoga Academy has something for you.

Speaker 2:

The Dive podcast is also filmed here and houses our sound therapy sessions each and every Monday. To receive up to 28 days of unlimited yoga and Pilates, go onto their website, wwwaustralianyogaacademycom today to check out their generous intro offers for yourself. Now that's enough for me. Let's get back to the episode. I wanted to talk a little bit more now maybe a bit more into some challenges that you faced when you were training or even in your career, and maybe how you navigated that.

Speaker 1:

There's been a lot of challenges. Yes, I don't anyone who's in the arts. It's 21st century, everyone's meeting new challenges. I take that back. I think we kind of started to speak about this before the podcast. But when I had finished my three years of training and I kind of entered the industry, I didn't know who I was at that time. Like I know that, but I've always been able to listen to my intuition and I can see that I was absolutely not listening to my intuition at that time and I was kind of being chaperoned into avenues that people told me you are this, you're good at this, and I was like, okay, okay, like, and it's that you know that downloading through full-time of like you can't say no to anything. There's so much fear so.

Speaker 1:

I was like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, even though I knew in my gut I was like, oh, I don't, I don't know if this is for me, and so I felt very like homeless in my dance and that I was doing these jobs that I was good at, but my heart wasn't in it and that was really challenging and it's like a young person fresh out of full time and then to not like I was working.

Speaker 1:

But I didn't want to seem ungrateful right but I, deep down, wasn't having the greatest time, so like I end up just moving. I went traveling overseas for a year and then I came back for a year and then I moved overseas and when I moved to London in 2014, I remember getting on that plane and being like I am going clean slate. Right now, no one knows anything about me in london. How?

Speaker 1:

good I'm just gonna rock up and whatever happens is gonna happen for me. I'm just gonna go in authentically, wow and by this point, like I had, I've spent, like you know, the past 10, 11 years diving very deep into myself to learn who I am and that's just never gonna go away. That's a part of my life, and I know that's a part of your life too, and I love it. But by the time I hit 24 and I was moving to London, I started having my wits about me and about who I actually am and what I actually want. So meditation aided. A very strong part in being able to go there and be like this is me I'm open to.

Speaker 1:

I'm open to everything, instead of coming from a place where I've been told what I was and I was starting to build a reputation for myself as this dance teacher and I was like I never, I don't even want to teach, but I'm teaching 40 hours a week. Yeah, wow, I'm burnt out. But I was like I have to be grateful, like maybe this is my career, and I got told you'll never work as a dancer in austral Australia, you're too short, you know, you'll never get into musical theater. Like you'll never get into like. I got told no, but you are a teacher. So then when I went to the UK, I was just like ta-da, here I am and really just lent into like kind of what I've evolved. And that's where I became a movement coach.

Speaker 1:

I didn't even know what a movement coach was until I was in the UK and I was like I'm into this, I like this, how good. How did you get?

Speaker 2:

into that.

Speaker 1:

So a very good friend of mine who I also did full time with Jamie Rose. She transitioned, we lived together in London and she transitioned into music and music management and production and stuff.

Speaker 1:

She came home one day and she's like I think you were meant to be a movement coach and I was like I don't know what that is. And then she, we kind of spoke about it and then you know what you put out there. Before I knew a friend from my childhood was living in london and her housemate is a singer. She runs it in a band and she's like my housemate needs help with movement and I was like let's move.

Speaker 1:

I'm done, I'll do it so we used to like move in her lounge room. She had walking heels, like these jazz gigs she's did, and then we made like a visual album and I just got really it was all the dance teaching communication that became in handy. And then I started movement coaching her and then, before I knew it, this just I don't even know how someone else is like hey, we hear a movement coach, do you want to come in and movement coach a singer for a whole?

Speaker 1:

music video and I was like, yeah, isn't it funny how one thing kind of just it's a ripple into the next yes, especially if it's a place from when you're acting, from like your authentic self, like I knew I was, like I love this. I was like buzzing. I was replaying the session in my head. I was going home and no one's taught me how to be a movement coach. It's a very intuitive practice, yeah, and I'm always like whatever I can to learn about them and like the yoga helps and the dance teaching helps and everything the meditation helps. And then, before I knew it, I was movement coaching and movement directing on set and the first time I was ever on set, I was in the toilet googling what the words were that they were all saying on set because I had no idea.

Speaker 1:

I didn't go to film school what is this? And I was like, oh, I understand that shot. Now, okay, it's like what is panning, you know? Like yeah, like all this stuff. So I'd come back on set and I'd be able to navigate my way around. But I think that also comes from being. I think dancers are very versatile and could learn really quickly, so I could recognize that very proactive when I came back to australia and the challenge was everyone's like I don't know what a movement coach is I was like no, how long were you over in the UK for?

Speaker 1:

It was just shy of three years, wow, yeah, so I was there for a while, really big time, beautiful time. Like you know we all got to do it when we're young. Going to the UK was the best thing I could have done. Otherwise, I feel like if I didn't, there is a potential that I would have just like could be sitting in a different position today, being like.

Speaker 2:

I just did what I was told. I don't know. I'm pretty strong-minded. I think I would have woken up eventually. Yeah, but I guess when you're not, if you're in a place where you're not sure of yourself, all you got to lead on is the people in your life yes and whether it's family or coaches or teachers, you just naively, just trust that whatever they're going to say is what's right for you.

Speaker 1:

And that was always something too like I would hear. I remember when I was in full time, and maybe it was just me being like a Geelong girl, not from the city, not fully up with it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And the way that people would chat to each other and talk and like what they do on the weekends and stuff. I was always like I'd, I'd, I'm good, like, I just like, I'm just here to dance, I'm not really here to be in the social like. So then when it got noisy and I felt like people were pushing me in in different ways, I was a bit like and my mum clocked it too and I was like I think I need to go overseas and so then you came back to aust.

Speaker 1:

And then I came back to Australia and I just started cold emailing like, just like cold calling. Yeah. Is it cold emailing, I guess, hi. I'm Zoe. This is what I do. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I just did. I decided, I was like I'm not taking no for an answer. If there isn't a lot of awareness around movement coaching, I'm about to make it. That's it, because I just I love it so much, yeah, that I was like, no, I want to do this. I it's taking me so long to find my practice as a facilitator, as a teacher to find where I am, and then you know. You just get one and then I do.

Speaker 1:

I'm a very I really am good at my job and I can put my hand on my heart and say that like yeah, actually, at a place in my life where I believe in my great, you know skill set, instead of being like no, no, I'm like no, I know what I'm doing and you've done that work.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly, it's taken a decade.

Speaker 1:

That just a quick decade yeah, it's just a quick um, and then it just a ripple effect, like this person told that person, this person told two people, two people. And then, before I knew it, I like I'm movement coaching like five to six artists a week outside of like choreographing and working on whatever kind of like freelance work was coming through, wow, like, and it just, it just kept happening. And it's like you know, my friend said that to call you and this manager told me to call you and all happened around me.

Speaker 1:

And I was like whoa Matt, this is so fun.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome.

Speaker 1:

But like I really had to like stay in my integrity the whole time, it could have been so and there was financial stress being like I could just slip back into teaching 40 hours a week and be very comfortable, like I could easily do that. But every time I would think about it, my whole, my insides would like just ch. I was like I can't do it.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

And then obviously you kept into your intuition I do always that guided you Well you know, when you become so in tune with yourself and I practice yoga and meditate like very similar, my body knows like it probably knows Like I can say something out loud and be like yeah, that sounds good, but it I'm like oh, it really doesn't sound good and it's great because I think sometimes people are scared to kind of go inward.

Speaker 2:

And it's not always beautiful and a lot of the times it's not, but it's definitely just worth the journey because once you start to really understand you or at least begin to understand, you know what you're about and your likes and your dislikes, and what's good for you and what's not. It's awesome because it doesn't take long. Like you said, I could have a thought and I just know instantly that's not for me or not, and and actually be aware it's the opening, the awareness this is it like my mission in life is to know who I am like.

Speaker 1:

It's like or maybe not mission, but it's like to study myself, like just we can study history and all these things happening and I think they're great, but at the end of the day I am this thing, physical, sitting right here in this vessel called Zoe, going around dancing. I need to know who this is and study myself and my mind and my habits and my body. And the more I know myself, the myself, the easier life is. Doesn't matter if someone says like no, we're not booking you or yes, we're booking you either way, I'm like sweet, like I, literally I'm like either way I'm, I'm not like there's no, like heightened emotions, like my baseline is really strong. And then in that comes trust. Like Like I trust because I trust myself. It's not trusting my skillset and my dance, that's all. Third, fourth, fifth layer. It's like I trust myself because I know myself.

Speaker 1:

I sit with myself, I'm honest with myself, and then everything else is easier, yeah, and it just flows and it just ends up happening for you. Yeah, because you're like you're here, you know exactly who you are. But because you're like you're here, you know exactly who you are. But I feel like maybe today's dancers, with the noise of life coming off the back of a pandemic, like it's a bit chaotic. Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1:

It's a lot of it's a lot of information where we need to like turn everything off go away just like sit and just be like, yeah, how are you? Yeah, absolutely like what are you?

Speaker 2:

like and I mean this comes into kind of the end of the episode it's also just been chatting with you. There's so many, I just feel like we could talk forever.

Speaker 1:

I feel like you and I could just sit here for like a day.

Speaker 2:

Uncover the world's problems for sure, but is there any other form of advice? A lot of people that are listening and watching in are either in full time or they're fresh into the industry, or maybe there's a professional out there that's kind of lost the love it's. They're going on this journey but haven't had that time to go inward and really look at the nitty gritty of the self.

Speaker 1:

Is there any advice that you would give people? That are listening in, I mean, two things pop to mind. One is Morning Pages from Julia Cameron's.

Speaker 1:

Artist's Way listening in. Uh, I mean, two things pop to mind one is morning pages from julia cameron's artist way. The artist way, yes, why I have this tattoo leap and the net will appear. That's been like my. I remember reading in her book like 10 years ago and I was like I'm just gonna start jumping off cliffs because she said there's a net. She said if I jump, there's a net. So I like take a big leap or take a big plunge or just email that random, just yeah it, you always land yes so this leap in the net will appear.

Speaker 1:

But from her book is morning pages, just dedicating however long in the morning to write three or four pages. It's not trying to write anything profound or creative, it's just like just get out of your head, just go blah, blah, blah. I call blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 2:

I call it a brain dump. Yeah, it's literally, I literally title it brain dump and you just put pen to paper and don't stop for three or four pages, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's crazy how something so simple like that can just create some space for you. And just sometimes I see myself I'm like you're crazy, You're crazy. This is outrageous.

Speaker 2:

And if you think that's what's happening on paper, gosh, there's a lot more happening in the mind, exactly right. So morning pages, morning pages.

Speaker 1:

And Is to dance for yourself. Like it's been my biggest healer, like, especially through some really challenging times over the past, like four years. Like I just my dance. My personal dance practice has increased every single day. Every single day. I dance and dance, dance. And then I created a dance class out of it, called dance remedy, which is just offering a space for people to do that. But what it does for me is it just shows me who I am every day through the vessel of dancing. And then it's led me to join, like the freestyle dance space, which I took me two years to get to. I was so nervous and now you can't get me away from it. I'm obsessed every week because the intention is just to dance. There's zero outcome.

Speaker 1:

Well, for me personally, I'm dancing for myself to whatever music comes on. I don't even have preference. I'm not trying to impress anyone, but it's just like, quite literally, the healthiest relationship I've ever had. You have to come join. Please do. It's so much fun. You just get to dance Like, try some stuff out.

Speaker 2:

You're like I'm on the ground now. So where is it if people do want to come check out?

Speaker 1:

So the jams, yeah, there's heaps. There's heaps of different ones. I'm going to one tonight. It's a hip hop jam run by Jam on Toast, ladies jam at imax. These are all at imax okay um, tuesday night I go to a ladies jam between seven and nine at imax, and then wednesday night from seven to nine thirty I'm pretty sure it's like all styles great, I don't know. There's whackers on thursdays, I think, and another house. There's a house jam on a wednesday, but anyone at any walk of life can just go and just come participate or join or contribute.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's just a really like come and bring a positive vibe, yeah, at the end of the day, but it's you're dancing for you. So that's like my advice. Like, even if you're dancing for you, you're actually dancing for your career. If you're at full-time because you're at university, you're studying, and that's amazing, but clock off and go to a house jam or clock off and put some random music on that you've never heard, and dance for you because, like, the more you can remind yourself of why you dance and come back to your relationship with it, I really believe that solves all the problems, because it's it's healthy. You've got to feed your dance, you've got to feed your art, like you've got to connect with it. You can't just expect from it hey, man yeah I obviously

Speaker 2:

love it oh, it's so good. I mean, yeah, it's been awesome having you in. Like I said, I feel like we could go for maybe we'd get a part two come in soon. But if you, anyone at home, has any questions for us or zoe, you can always email us at info at the divecomau, and I'll be sure to add the jams and everything into their bio.

Speaker 1:

So if they want to check it out or, yeah, I can send you all their pages like I'm still like new in the space, but the impact that it's had on my life is like so beautiful let's jam yeah, it's so good. And if you are nervous for the jam, I ran a class called dance remedy, which is like a guided dance class. There's no mirrors, no, no choreography, no levels. You just rock up on a Tuesday at 6 o'clock and play Great.

Speaker 2:

Well, we'll add it all into the show notes. It's been awesome having you in.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

You're so welcome, it was so fun, yes. Bye, everyone Bye.

Speaker 2:

You've been listening to the D podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. For more resources, tools, techniques and tips, you can head to our website, wwwthedivecomau. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review for us, and if you feel like this episode could resonate with anyone else in your network, feel free to share it online or share it with a friend directly. Be sure to check us out on instagram with the handle at thedivecomau, where we come on each week and share a little bit more about the behind the scenes of the podcast and any upcoming workshops, classes and offers with the Dive. Until next time, I hope that you stay passionate, keep showing up and just know that if you're going through challenges right now, it's going to be so worth it when you are in a show and living your dream.