The Dive Podcast

20: The Benefits Of Having An Agent with Laura Wallbridge

• Laura Wallbridge • Season 1 • Episode 20

Share episode

Did you know what an artist agent does? 🤔

Laura Wallbridge breaks down the myths and gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the hustle, the passion, and the relentless pursuit of opportunities for artists. Listen to our newest episode for an insider’s view! 🌈 

Where Taylor & Laura talked about:

  •  Laura's unexpected entry into artist management.
  • Transition from publicity to artist representation.
  • The pivotal role agents play in an artist's career trajectory.
  • They discussed what agents look for beyond talent in potential clients.
  • Laura provided advice for emerging artists on proactive career management and self-improvement.

Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

Step One: 📝Get your FREE Audition Prep Workbook

Step Two: 🫂 Join Free Facebook Support Group

Step Three: 👀 Check out the Momentum Program for aspiring MT performers looking to become professional

Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Speaker 1:

I will never try to make you do anything. That's not my job. But if I think you're holding back because you're scared, I will push. If something doesn't align with your values and you go. Do you know what this part really doesn't speak to me? Say that to your agent, that's okay. Listen. Listen to all the advice that you're given and discard anything that doesn't hold true to you and your values, Because, like we said earlier, success looks different to every person.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And everyone's experiences are completely different. So understand what success will look like to you and then just go for it and take all the advice and soak up all the knowledge that you can, but don't be afraid to say no to the things that don't align with that Wonderful advice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, hello and welcome to the Dive. Now more than ever, we need to be finding ways to help us navigate the challenges of being an artist. You're listening to the Dive Podcast, a show specifically designed for performing artists, to help you stop the stress and overwhelm and instead find ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. I'm a fellow performing artist and founder of the Dive, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Each and every week, we have a brand new guest on the show who is a professional in the industry to discuss their unique stories and help us tackle the industry challenges. To help you perform, rest and excel at your peak. I believe that we all have a unique story to share, but most of our struggles are common. So, without further ado, let's dive right in, let's get to work and create a career of a lifetime. Well, thank you for being on the show, laura. It's awesome having you in.

Speaker 2:

I'm excited to be here, yeah, and it's really interesting because you are one of my agents for PM and I wanted you to come onto the show because we wanted to give artists kind of a behind the scenes of what agents do and kind of your story, and I think it's so spectacular what you've done, over 20 years of experience working with artists, and I'm really excited to talk to you.

Speaker 1:

I'm excited to be here and have a chat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so before we go into some awesome, really important topics on agency and representing and kind of branding yourself, where did it all start for you? Did you always wanted to kind of go into the direction of being an agent? Where did it start?

Speaker 1:

I think no, I think it was an accident, a happy accident, when I first finished high school, I think in year 12, you definitely get that pressure of you've got to pick something and you've got to study something straight away or you'll never study anything, and I was like what do I like? You know I love drama and I love dance and I'm not really that talented at that sort of stuff. What could I do? I like working with younger people. Maybe I'll study teaching, and so I started my teaching degree and made it I can't remember if it was two or three years and did my first lot of rounds and went what am I doing? I am not a teacher, but throughout my life just entertainment in general has brought me so much joy Like my happiest memories are at concerts or musicals or events. I just enjoyed that sort of atmosphere thing, the vibe.

Speaker 1:

And so I'm like that's obviously what my passion is.

Speaker 2:

I'm not a skilled singer or dancer, although I did dance when I was younger, funnily enough.

Speaker 1:

And I'm like what do I want to do? I think I want to get into the music industry. I think that's where it's at, Cause I was at concerts every weekend and it was just my happy place, and so I said, right, I need to get a job at a record label, which wasn't easy, because there were only five in Melbourne and majority of them had their head offices in Sydney. So, most of them. You know there's maybe 10 staff in Melbourne not heaps of opportunities, but I'm pretty tenacious.

Speaker 1:

So I eventually made my way into EMI in a maternity leave position as an assistant and on reception. And then, once I got in there, I'm like this is what I want to do and I think I want to get into publicity and artist relations.

Speaker 1:

So then I started studying full time while I was working to do a media communications degree, so I'd be qualified for that and then sort of made my way through working in sales and things like that, so I could understand that side of the business and then eventually into a media role in artist relations where I was sort of in charge of putting together like presenting songs to radio and managing artists schedules for promotional tours and all their media and looking after them while they were in town if they were internationals or looking after them in general, if they were locals.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I loved it, absolutely loved it.

Speaker 2:

Wow, so you've really, you've really done it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

A lot of experience. Yeah, what was the experience like?

Speaker 1:

when you started managing artists. So managing artists came after that. So after I had children I decided I couldn't go back to the record label, just didn't work. So I went freelance as a publicist and then started doing things like Logies and freelancing back for record labels and doing red carpets, red carpet management and things like that for shows and then I yeah it's fun, it's fun. And then I came across this artist and, like most managers, you go.

Speaker 1:

I'm not a manager, but that's that's how you end up managing you just fall in love with, with an artist or an act and you're like people need to hear them. So I started as a publicist and quickly became a manager and fell in love with that as well. Just being able to nurture talent and being able to go on that full journey with them is something that I found so incredibly satisfying and I found when I worked at the labels like as fun as working with the international artists are and it's glitzy and it's exciting, even though it's long hours and hard work, I got the most satisfaction from working with the local artists.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Because you feel like you're actually making a difference, Like when Katy Perry tours. What I do on ground here isn't going to make any difference to her career, not putting myself down. But let's be real, whereas working from the ground up with, like you know, the Aussie artists, where you'd start and you'd be in a venue and there'd be maybe three people there and you'd be one of them to them playing stadiums and festival stages, that was satisfying because you're like no, I actually helped them.

Speaker 1:

I was able to support them. Through this, I was able to come up with creative ideas. You know, it's always their talent, it's about them, but you actually feel like you're contributing as part of the team.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, really helping them grow and going on that journey.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think back to my days when I thought I wanted to be a teacher. It's that side. I've always had, that nurturing side. I think I've was a mum long before I was a mum and I like sort of guiding and and supporting people and helping them see their potential. So it just felt like a natural fit for me because really artists are just like kids, with a little bit more of an attitude I love that, oh my gosh and gosh and it's awesome.

Speaker 2:

I mean you've got such a wonderful personality and when you're kind of recent to joining PM as one of the agents there and I've been with PM for my whole entire career and we'll get into this a little bit but we actually have a common friend we do, samantha Jones, who actually babysitted me as a child.

Speaker 1:

So it's kind of it was so funny when I got the job. She's like I know this amazing artist and he's doing really well. He's in mary poppins. His name's, taylor scanlon. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna be looking after him crazy it's a small world, really small world very small world wow.

Speaker 2:

And so now going a little bit more into pm and being an agent. We were just talking before about a lot of artists and even myself at some point in my career. I have no idea what agents kind of do and what do they do in the back end, because I mean, I see you work, you're, you know, really hustling and helping and being there for all of the you know amazing talent that we have in PM. But I'd love to discuss more on that. What is the role of an agent?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's an interesting one because so many artists want to have one. But if I actually said to you, do you know what I do? A lot of them would probably go. Not really, I know I need you, but I'm not sure why. So the best way I can explain in own words, being an agent, it's about facilitating opportunities, but also encouraging artist development, encouraging artists themselves yeah uh, to nut out exactly what their path is and what success looks like to them.

Speaker 1:

Because what success looks like for you might be totally different to another former, and just having a rough plan of where you'd like to go and what your goals are, that doesn't mean that we then lock you into that plan and it's like you can't do this and you can't do that because you said you wanted to do this.

Speaker 1:

Like it's a fluid plan, things change, but sometimes I'll have a meeting with talent. They're like I just want to anything and everything. I want to try everything and have every experience. And that can be great, because then you're open to things. That's sort of how my career's gone.

Speaker 2:

I'm like I want to do music and then I'm like, oh, publicity and musicals, because there's so much out there, there's so many different paths and we were talking about this on the podcast, I think podcast, I think last week about limitations and how artists can really easily put these labels and limit just to do one thing and yeah, if you're only doing what?

Speaker 1:

if that's what you want to do and you know that you're limiting yourself and you're cool with that, that's fine, but sometimes it's good to go. Well, I'm just happy to see where this journey takes me and I'll try something. And if I try it and I don't like it, then we don't do it again, that's's all right, that's okay. So I think your agent it's important. Your agent has an understanding of who you are and what your goals are and then helps to facilitate those opportunities without shutting doors on other things. So, navigating you through going okay, this has come up. I know we've talked about this before and it was a no. Is that still a hard no for you? Or have things changed? And that's not about pushing you to do things that you don't want to do. I always say to my talent and I don't know if you and I have had this conversation I will never try to make you do anything. That's not my job. But if I think you're holding back because you're scared, I will push.

Speaker 2:

Maybe we haven't had that discussion. No, not yet.

Speaker 1:

But I'll never be like you have to do this. If your agent comes to you and says I've got X, y, z on the table and it's not for you, don't feel bad about saying no, that's not for me, you don't work for me. You can disappoint me, but it's okay. Like don't, but if something doesn't align with your values and you go.

Speaker 1:

Do you know what this part really doesn't speak to me? Say that to your agent. That's okay. I'll only ever push back and I'll go. Does it not align, because we've talked about this and I feel like it does align. Are you holding back because you're scared or feeling threatened, or is there another block?

Speaker 2:

I'll push back then gently.

Speaker 1:

But that's amazing, though, but not force.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think a lot of people maybe don't know that having an agent can be that facilitator. That's also a little bit like non-bias with seeing you know the opportunities that are there on the table can actually be that person.

Speaker 1:

I know you said you weren't necessarily a dancer and performer yourself, but you're able to acknowledge and see the different opportunities that are out there and you know, know that this is what they could be great in that's true and I work with jess, who is a performer, and obviously todd uh, todd patrick is a very seasoned professional. So I don't necessarily feel like I need to be a dancer or a singer to do my job because I've got those great people around me that do. And sometimes it's nice to just have an agent that is just an audience person that's like do you know what? I don't know if those lines are perfect, I don't know if they hit that note exactly, but as an audience member, your standard person that loves going to shows, I love that person, I love their vibe. They have that X factor that might not be perfect dancing or perfect singing, but I want to watch them.

Speaker 2:

For sure, and this goes really great into our next question, and this goes with you know, what are talent agents actually looking for beyond the talent? Because there's, you know, the talent itself when you're a talented performer, a talented singer, dancer, actor. But there is and we've spoken a little bit about this there is some qualities and things beyond the talent itself that agents are looking for.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, I can't speak for any other agent other than myself.

Speaker 2:

Of course.

Speaker 1:

But for me it's definitely a work ethic. It's a work ethic. Sometimes artists are like well, you just have to bring me work, because you're my agent, I'll bring you every opportunity that I can. But it's definitely easier for me if you're going to classes and networking and doing things for yourself so that you're known, so that then when your name comes up people go oh, I know that person. Yeah, we get a list of auditions and someone that I really want to be in the room isn't in the room. I can say could you please see this person? They've done X, y, z. If they're doing things and they're active, it gives me tools. I'm only as good as the assets that I have and the product and I don't like to call people a product, but essentially you are a product.

Speaker 1:

I'm only as good as the product that I'm pushing and I'm only as solid as the tools that I've got to push it. So if I'm asking you for updated dance reels and stuff, it's not because I'm trying to be a punisher and get you to do extra work.

Speaker 1:

It's because I want to be able to show you off. I want to be able to go check out this dancer. Have you seen them? Have you noticed that they're doing classes? And just keep your CV up to date. Let me know what you're doing. Have that conversation with me about where you're at whilst you're not working. What are you working on? What do you need extra help with? Can I connect you in with different people that could assist? Do you need a new singing teacher? Do you need some help with self-tapes? If you're wanting to move into screen, where are the gaps? And then I can help you. If I can't fill those gaps myself, I can refer you on to people that can, so that we're always moving with forward momentum. Even if you're not necessarily booked right now, we're always working towards that next goal instead of just sitting waiting for it to come. So definitely, talent that has drive and has the desire, because I've definitely worked with artists in the past who I reckon I've almost wanted it more than them.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Like, I can see that they're talented and I'm like but you just don't have that need to do this and I think, as a performer, you have to go. This is what, like, if you're not going, this is what I want, this is what I have to do it's probably not going to happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

No matter how talented you are, because there are other people that may not be as technically talented.

Speaker 2:

But they want it more.

Speaker 1:

That want it and will keep working and will put in that extra time.

Speaker 2:

You know, sometimes and that's what people want to work with too. I do yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like, if I'm getting self-tape requests and things in and there's a 48-hour deadline, I want people that will go. Do you know what? I'll make that tape happen.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Or that's not very long to do it, very long to do it and I don't like.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that, I do. But if you don't want to do it, someone else is going to do it, and if there was longer, you would.

Speaker 1:

You would tell them straight away you know and I understand the working out of hours thing as well. I'm a single mum of three kids and I do a lot of out of hours work. I don't love asking people to do things out of hours, but that is this business that's it this is not a nine-to-five business.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely not. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

And I think sometimes people do forget to celebrate their wins along the way as well and just take that moment to be present and realise how lucky you are to be doing the job you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

I check in with myself about this all the time. I sent Todd a message the other week like I love my job and I'm so lucky to do this and I have to remind myself of that because I am.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like no disrespect to anyone, but we could all be working in a bank. That's it, and I just don't feel like I'd get joy and goosebumps from a bank the way I do when I'm sitting in a theatre watching a show or seeing my dancers at an event or seeing my dances at an event or seeing my talent on a TV commercial.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like that's special.

Speaker 2:

Really exciting. That's special yeah.

Speaker 1:

We're so lucky.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you really are. I never thought of it like this, but it's almost like you're like a mother of you know, in a way of your artist, because it's like you're a proud or mother of ducklings. Yeah, I mean you have your own children. But yeah, I mean you have your own children. But yeah, definitely like being that mediator and organiser and that facilitator to help these people Sometimes you're the cheer squad. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes you're the disciplinarian. That's it, you know that's what this is, and I think that what sets our agency apart is that we do have that sort of mentor aspect and we do provide that as much as we can. We try to see people as a whole and their strengths and weaknesses and see where we can assist to give them the best chance to be successful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I'm honoured to be able to do that as a job. I love it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, it's wonderful and I've loved working with you and it feels like it's been forever.

Speaker 2:

I know, yeah, I and I've loved working with you and it feels like it's been forever.

Speaker 2:

I know, yeah, I mean, I can only speak for myself as well. Working with PM has been nothing but supportive and I've always been able to get into the room of things that I've wanted to and it's always been super open communication and I think that's really important to have as an agent and that kind of agent client agent, product agent, person you know that collective is having that open conversation and I know for me and maybe people don't want this, but in an agent that I look for is I want to be able to go for coffee with my agent. I want to be able to actually like know them as a person, because when topics and things come up that are maybe hard on a contract, or if I'm overseas and I really need help with something, I want to be able to go to someone that you know is that professional that can really help from not only from a lovely aspect of a friend, but also in that way that I can be helped in a way that's professional.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and have that trust that I'm not going to leave you astray.

Speaker 2:

That's it, that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's different from artist to artist as well. Some people just want to speak to me on the phone or text yeah or email, and that is 100% okay as well, as long as there's that level of trust there, I think yeah and speaking of, you know, getting into the room and being able to get into the room, this is an interesting one, and this is one that comes up.

Speaker 1:

let's talk, because obviously, with your experience, if you're not in the room, I can get you in the room like that. Sure, sometimes when you're starting, you don't want to be in the room straight away.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's never something that a performer wants to hear, but sometimes it's like the part's just not right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like the script's not just right and I know you want to have that experience and. I get it and you've got that hunger and you want that experience and that is a beautiful, beautiful thing and keep it. But you've also got to know when to go and if your agent is saying to you this is not the show, they're not trying to hold you back from anything.

Speaker 1:

They're not trying to say that you're not good enough. It's nothing to do with that as an agent. Aside from it's a tricky balance because you've got each individual performer and you need to be artist first and talent first. But there also is an element of needing to be agency first, because if the agency has a good reputation and is having good results, there's a flow on effect for every artist in that agency.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

If I can't get you in the room for a show that you're not right for, I'm not going to push to get you in the room because I know that you're not right for that show. It doesn't mean you're not talented. It doesn't mean I'm trying to hold you back, yeah, or that I'm favoring other talent or anything like that.

Speaker 1:

It's that I will push when it's the right show to push for and when it's the right time, and then the flow and effect from that is that casting. When I do push and say you need to see this person nine times out of 10, they will.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because they know that I'm pushing someone that they really do need to see, as opposed to pushing all my talent going see 50 people. That's it.

Speaker 2:

That aren't right for the show. And it's really interesting because even as a performer myself, I can see having experience in audition rooms. I'm now not as like stressed and I'm just enjoy being there, but I'm able to actually see the people that I can actually see it in their eyes. That maybe like being pushed to get there. And then they get there and realize, oh, I'm actually not ready for this. And then I think for a lot of people people it can be a bit traumatic because it's a massive experience even just auditioning, exposing yourself, being that vulnerable around.

Speaker 2:

You know you go from a full-time school or you're in just your little bubble and you're, maybe you're excelling out of, you know the bubble that you're in, but then you go out of this bubble into the wide world of professional artists that have been working for 10, 20 years, totally different. They have got all of this. You know knowledge and you look sometimes like a little deer in headlines. Yeah, and it can be. You know maybe the thing that you need, but I can't agree with you more that you know trusting the agent, that they know what it's good for you. You're only there to help them anyway.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. And if you're not on a contract, I'm not getting paid either. Exactly, so it's not like I'm trying. Yes, I'd love to be successful, aside from the fact that I want everyone to do well or I wouldn't work with you. Please understand that if you're not working, I'm also not getting paid absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I've never thought about you know there's that as well, I think people forget that.

Speaker 1:

It's like obviously.

Speaker 2:

I want you to work because that's how I you know, that's how I survive as well. Yeah, Coming into now. You know, when managing an artist, what do you look for and what's the common trait of the performers that are out there working.

Speaker 1:

I think this definitely feeds into the last question. The common trait is that forward motion, that self-discipline and that ability to keep moving towards the goal, even if it's not necessarily a goal. They can see on the horizon, like, if there's no show coming, that you know you want to try out. Well, that doesn't mean you just kick back until auditions are announced. It's like, okay, well, what can I do to get myself in the best possible shape? So when the next brief comes up, I'm ready for it.

Speaker 1:

So, whether that maybe you're looking at your sort of SWOT analysis that Jess does with your strengths, weaknesses, threats and opportunities and you're going okay, well, my weaknesses are that my singing's not so great or I need some extra technical dancing, or my acting's letting me down. Well, if there's no briefs coming up, then that is a perfect opportunity for you to be zeroing in on those things. Or maybe you go. Do you know what I freak out in auditions?

Speaker 1:

So maybe I'm getting some therapy around breathing or like calming techniques or having some sort of therapy that can help me, so that when I do get to my next audition that's less of a factor for me.

Speaker 2:

Like am.

Speaker 1:

I doing some meditation? Am I doing some journaling? What am I doing to help myself, so that when that next brief does come up, whether it's in a week or whether it's in six months? I'm working towards my goals. Still, I'm not just sitting waiting for it to happen.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, or be here now, yeah, and it's really interesting that you said about you know the mindfulness and really discovering who you are and what you need. This can go for anyone. I've seen people that have you know, even in full time, they're just going to auditions. They're figuring that out then. But I've also seen people that have performed straight away for however many years, and then there's this year off and they're not getting into anything and that's the part of discovery that they need and, yeah, um, you know that therapy that they're not getting into anything and that's the part of discovery that they need and you know that therapy that they may need at that stage. So that is awesome. It can go really any point.

Speaker 1:

It can and we talk a lot about it. You know, in this career as well, you get this like massive high when you get a contract and you're like, yes, this is brilliant. And then you're doing it and you're working so hard and then it stops. Yeah, you're doing it and you're working so hard, and then it stops, yeah. And then you're like, oh, okay now.

Speaker 1:

I've got all this time and I'm home and like who am I? What does life look like? And there's so many highs and lows and they're extreme, yeah, and you're either working so hard or not at all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And finding that balance. It's difficult. I don't envy artists. Yeah, it's hard For called. I Don't Envy Artists, it's hard For sure. But at least there's an awareness of that now. I think and there's conversations happening about it, whereas 20, 30 years ago, there wouldn't have been no.

Speaker 2:

Hey, listeners, if you're interested in yoga, pilates or even becoming a yoga teacher, I highly recommend you come and check out the Australian Yoga Academy. It's located in the heart of Chapel Street in Melbourne, with daily yoga and Pilates classes as well as yoga teacher training to get you prepared to step onto the other side of the map. Whether you're here to be a teacher or not, you can come to the Australian Yoga Academy and find something for you. They also house Reiki, osteo and physiotherapy. They also house Reiki, osteo and Physiotherapy, and they're really just revolutionising the way that we look at our bodies and also connect together as a community. Whether you're a beginner or a daily yogi, the Australian Yoga Academy has something for you. The Dive Podcast is also filmed here and houses our sound therapy sessions each and every Monday To receive up to 28 days of unlimited yoga and Pilates. Go onto their website, wwwaustralianyogaacademycom today to check out their generous intro offers for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Now, that's enough from me. Let's get back to the episode. Going into talking about contract negotiations, just to add another thing that an agent can do for you and we're talking a lot about having an agent in this episode and whether you need an agent or if you're just doing it on your own and you're thriving and that works for you amazing. But I definitely benefit from having an agent and, when it comes to contract negotiations, really being that middle person that can really help in a professional sense. Yeah, let's talk about that.

Speaker 1:

Contrasts are really interesting and it's different from company to company and contract to contract. Your agent will always push for maximum money for you. Again, it's that same thing you get paid more, we get paid more. Everybody wins. Everyone wants that. I think sometimes there is a lack of understanding about what's reasonable to ask for and what's not reasonable to ask for. The PCA obviously has mandates and sort of set guidelines on what performers are to get paid, given what their role is and their experience level. And then there's loadings and things like that. You can push with personal margin in some instances, but I think it's important that talent knows there's only so far you can push and you need to know when to push and when to not push because there's massive budgets attached to these shows.

Speaker 1:

There's certain amounts that they've allocated for each member of the cast, but not just the cast production wardrobe lighting.

Speaker 2:

So many people.

Speaker 1:

So if you're going hundreds or even thousands of dollars over in one area, it's got to be pulled from somewhere else. So when you're asking your agent to go, say, can we push on the money? Agent's always going to push on the money, yeah, but how much you can push has to be realistic.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So what I like to say to my talent is this is how much they've offered, how much would you like? Realistically, we're probably going to get here. That's not because you're not worth it or you're undervaluing yourself, but there's a bigger picture. So when you're talking about contract negotiations, people are often like well, we've got to get as much as we can. I think we've got to get as much as we can and it still be feasible for the company, so that there is a job and there is a cast, and that doesn't mean that you're not.

Speaker 1:

your agent isn't pushing for as much as they can.

Speaker 1:

It's pushing for as much as they can within a realistic framework. And if you do push too far, they can go, they might come to the party, but then that same company, if it comes down to you and someone else for the next show, that might be the deal breaker for you. So it's a balance of valuing yourself and valuing your worth, which is so important and is a big thing in the arts, as it should be but also understanding your level of experience and where you're at and what is a reasonable amount of money to ask.

Speaker 2:

And that bigger picture of what's happening 100% bigger picture.

Speaker 1:

Some companies pay more than others. Some of them pay above awards, some just pay award and that's it. But it is a smallish industry and if you're the person that has, you know, know, really dragged out contract negotiations and made it really quite difficult, for the company.

Speaker 2:

They remember things like that.

Speaker 1:

They do they do, and that doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight for yourself and fight for your value, but it is having an understanding yeah and brushing up on what the awards are.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's where having an agent is great, because you're all over that and understand that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and knowing where you can push and where you probably just need to hold, same with when you're studying as well, taking gigs. You're like, well, I can't do that gig because that doesn't pay enough and I could earn more working at the coffee shop. Granted, I get it and some of the fees that come through. You're like, oh geez, that's a bit harsh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But the flip side to that is would you rather be doing this or working in a coffee shop?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's it.

Speaker 1:

And if you've got nothing on your resume. Do we skip the coffee shop shift and do this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So that you can put down that you've done a professional show and that ties back to that work ethic.

Speaker 2:

It's like, what are you willing to do to, like, advance your career? And if you're only just continually settling, waiting for something bigger, there's going to be someone else over here who's done 10 or so gigs, they've got stuff on the CV and they're ready and they're working and yeah, but then I can push and go.

Speaker 1:

oh, they've done X, Y, Z gigs. I think we need to up the fee when the time's right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, not the first time, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Look at this experience. Yeah, they can't possibly do it for that much.

Speaker 2:

For sure Right.

Speaker 1:

But not the first gig, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I mean I know that times have changed now and inflation and all that stuff, but personally I can only talk from my experience. As soon as I saw there was dollar signs I was like, yes, I never even thought about negotiating higher, until like later, when I think it was even PM at the time was like, oh, I think we can negotiate. And I was like more time was like I think we can negotiate. And I was like more, more than that. So you know, having that gratitude and even a lot of Australian artists don't even know- this but you know, compared to Broadway and West.

Speaker 1:

End.

Speaker 2:

We hold them at such a high standard, but when it comes to pay you, we do all right, we do all right in Australia, and there's, there's an amazing. You know the PCA and all how it's kind of run is, yeah incredible and we're really, really, really looked after. I would just say that.

Speaker 1:

And also, if we're talking about screen stuff as well, I really highly recommend, if you're wanting to do more of that work, to do the student films. I know sometimes people can look down on that a little bit too and go oh go, they do, you know, in honorarium fees did.

Speaker 1:

I say that in honorarium fee, yeah where they don't pay you very much and they're long hours, but yeah, you get a reel that's it, you get a professionally filmed reel yeah and once you have a few of those under your belt, it creates a really impressive portfolio so that then, when the feature film spots do come up, you have have a body of work that's not just a self-tape that they've asked you for. That's compelling and can show your range. So if you're not doing anything else on those days, it's really important you should be looking at doing stuff like that, getting that experience. Plus, these are the people that are graduating, that are about to be in the industry as well, and you don't know where they're going to land, what their job's going to be.

Speaker 2:

And I guess you only have control over what you can do. So, if you know that, you know today you talked about work ethic, drive, having that desire and also that accountability for just putting yourself forward. I think it's just so important and at any point you feel overwhelmed or it's getting too much, just know that you have literally the power to you know, put yourself forward, you know what else can you do, and really just owning that accountability and the work ethic and not waiting for your agent to just bring something for you whilst you just lay on the couch.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's it. That's it Help us, help you, that's it.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's been awesome talking to you today, and I always love asking this question for anyone else that's been on the show before, but let's make it more so to artists out there. What's some advice that you would give to people that are just starting out with either PM or just having an agent? What's some advice that you would probably give?

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so tough, I'll put you on the spot oh, that's so tough.

Speaker 1:

I think my advice would be listen. Listen to all the advice that you're given and discard anything that doesn't hold true to you and your values, because, like we said earlier, success looks different to every person, yeah, and everyone's experiences are completely different. So understand what success will look like to you and then just go for it and take all the advice and soak up all the knowledge that you can, but don't be afraid to say no to the things that don't align with that.

Speaker 2:

Wonderful advice, yeah, great. Well, if you want to send us any questions to myself or Laura, you can email us at info at thedivecomau, and if you want to get in contact with Laura about PM or you're looking for an agent, I highly recommend PM as an agency and, yeah, any questions that you have you can always ask us.

Speaker 1:

Yay, great, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2:

You've been listening to the Dive Podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Thank you, you've been listening to the Dive Podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. For more resources, tools, techniques and tips, you can head to our website, wwwthedivecomau. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review for us, and if you feel like this episode could resonate with anyone else in your network, feel free to share it online or share it with a friend directly. Be sure to check us out on Instagram with the handle at thedivecomau, where we come on each week and share a little bit more about the behind the scenes of the podcast and any upcoming workshops, classes and offers with the Dive. Until next time, I hope that you stay passionate, keep showing up and just know that if you're going through challenges right now, it's going to be so worth it when you are in a show and living your dream.