The Dive Podcast

22: How To Cultivate Longevity In Performing Arts with Lisa Sontag

• Lisa Sontag • Season 1 • Episode 22

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Ever wonder how the stars of stage and screen keep their careers alight amidst the ever-shifting sands of the industry? 

Join me, Taylor Scanlan, as I sit down with the astonishingly versatile Lisa Sontag to unearth the secrets behind sustaining a vibrant career in the performing arts. From the spark of musical theatre, Lisa’s story is a masterclass in resilience and adaptability.

Highlights:

 • Expanding Skill Sets: The importance of continuous improvement and adaptability in the performing arts.

 • Balancing Showbiz and Life: Strategies for creating harmony between a high-octane career and everyday life.

 • Diversifying Income Streams: How teaching, new ventures, and strategic financial planning can provide stability.

 • Life Beyond the Limelight: The psychological benefits of varied work experiences and finding a sense of self outside the industry.

 • Family and Career: Managing a demanding touring schedule with the responsibilities of parenthood.

 • Personal Reflections: Embracing downtime, discovering joy, and self-identity through hobbies and passions outside the theatre.

 • Encouragement for Artists: The power of focus, persistence, and valuing unique traits as assets in the performing arts.

Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

Step One: 📝Get your FREE Audition Prep Workbook

Step Two: 🫂 Join Free Facebook Support Group

Step Three: 👀 Check out the Momentum Program for aspiring MT performers looking to become professional

Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean you don't have any power over what the casting people or director sees you as. And you know, obviously I, as a what was I? I think I was like just before I was 30 and I was understudying women who were in their fifties, you know. So you don't really have a choice about what they are going to cast you in. So I just think, do it all.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the Dive. Now more than ever, we need to be finding ways to help us navigate the challenges of being an artist. You're listening to the Dive Podcast, a show specifically designed for performing artists, to help you stop the stress and overwhelm and instead find ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. I'm a fellow performing artist and founder of the Dive, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Each and every week, we have a brand new guest on the show who is a professional in the industry to discuss their unique stories and help us tackle the industry challenges. To help you perform, rest and excel at your peak. I believe that we all have a unique story to share, but most of our struggles are common. So, without further ado, let's dive right in, let's get to work and create a career of a lifetime. Lisa Tontag is here. Hi, tyler, how are you? I'm excellent.

Speaker 2:

Thank you Are you well, I'm so well, I'm so well. So I'm so excited to have you here and for any listeners. Today we're going to be exploring the topics on how to sustain longevity in the arts, how to balance life and performing, and the steps that you can kind of take for yourself to create that balance that works best for you, and also we may touch on the stress of not being in work and you know how we can bring ourselves to move forward instead of being in it and stressing out, which is a massive thing for performers.

Speaker 2:

Now when we talk to Lisa, we are talking to someone who has really done it in musical theatre as well as TV and film. And Lisa. We will get into a little bit more about where you studied and what you did before that, but to give a background of Lisa's career, she has been just recently in Mary Poppins, a musical where I met Lisa Very fortunate to meet you and I mean the list just goes on Billie Elliot, mamma Mia, les Mis, sweet Charity, dirty Rotten Scoundrels Singing in the Rain Like it's just been a massive career for you. So anyone that is listening today, stop what you're doing and listen in, because you're not going to want to miss a second.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a long list of shows, isn't?

Speaker 2:

it? Do you feel like it's gone in a blink of an eye, or has it felt like a long time?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it has. It's gone in a blink of an eye. I can still remember stressing out doing full-time dance at Dance World and thinking, not even knowing that a career was possible even then, and I was seeing professional dancers coming and going and auditioning for shows and I just didn't know if that was me, if I was going to be one of the lucky ones. And yeah, I was, so that my full-time dance got me into my first show and then after that I, yeah, had a little break for a few years and went to WAPA in Perth and then got back into shows after that.

Speaker 2:

Wow. So how was it like training for you? What would you say you got out of WAPA that helped you prepare yourself for the industry?

Speaker 1:

Well, I definitely was being cast as a dancer first and foremost early in my career, in my 20s, and just looking around at the people that I was working with, I realized that if I wanted to stay in the industry, I really needed to work on my singing and acting.

Speaker 1:

And I knew I had those things, but I really needed to hone them to a to a level where I was comfortable taking on roles and comfortable singing in front of 5,000 people at the drop of a hat when you're called on, you know, for an understudy or so forth. So I had auditioned for WAPA and I got in on my third time. So persistence is the key, yeah. And so I went to WAPA for the three years and it definitely has given me the ability to work now till I'm 46 and onwards, hopefully, and yeah and be able to understudy and play roles. I've done a bit of both and I've really enjoyed the experience and I've also been very lucky to be able to work a lot, because I'm happy to understudy and I also can dance in an ensemble. So of those are my. Those skills have have made it very possible for me to work a lot yeah, I mean well, it's very relevant and you can definitely see it.

Speaker 2:

I mean working with you there's such a bundle of joy, but you also hold yourself in such a really wonderful manner and you're very open and easy to talk to and also a very great leader to be. Still, you know smashing it. I don't want to say at your age, but you're very open and easy to talk to and also a very great leader to be. Still, you know smashing it. I don't want to say at your age, but you're just. You come in as though you're still just starting out and having fun with it, which I think is so important that you know people hear that. And how crazy that you said that you auditioned for WAPA for three times and you only got in on the third time. So that's probably, if you're out there auditioning and it's not happening for you even to get into a course to, you know not stop, just keep going, because you don't know what's going to happen if you just keep going to that next audition that's right.

Speaker 1:

I always do say persistence because of my experience and you know I auditioned at the end of year 11 and then the end of year 12. And they kept saying to me come back with life experience. And I thought I'm never going to get in. And then I went and did full time dance and then got into a couple of shows from that and then went back then because I just knew that it was the place I needed to be. So yeah with all the life experience, then you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course. And so then it took you into the industry. What was it? What was it like when you started into the career, like for you, compared to training every day in WAPA. And now you, you know you've gotten to your first show. Was it everything that you thought was going to be? Was it completely, completely different? What was your experience like?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I don't know it was. I mean, I did a lot of amateur theatre. That's also a great gateway into the industry of learning shows and learning a little bit what the industry is like. But yeah, I guess it was just like doing an amateur theatre show, but full time, like every day for four weeks. You learn the show. I mean it's amateur and it's professional, but you always bring your A game. Do you know what I mean? It's not like you treat it like it's an amateur show, but yeah, it's just that experience of just learning a show really quickly being prepared, know your lines.

Speaker 1:

It was such an eye opener for me just meeting the most amazing characters that I'd never met before. Know, just these people that have been in the industry for years and just had these most flamboyant, amazing personalities just opened my world, yeah, you know, to such joy and and hilarity, like everyone's hilarious, you know. Um, so yeah, that's what I found. It really just opened my world, opened my mind, yeah, and you just bring your a game and preparation. Just make sure you prepare for the day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's wonderful Because I think a lot of people, especially in the arts that are studying now, they feel like if they don't get into a professional musical straight away, that you know that's the only goal and that's the only way to go. But it's inspiring to hear that getting that experience because I think a lot of people as well, in full time we do want to get paid and we do want to make sure that we're, you know, setting up a life for ourselves. But I mean, I think a lot of even amateur productions are still, you still can get, you know, money from. But that experience, especially when you're starting out, is probably invaluable and actually probably taught you as well how to be in a professional environment before you went into.

Speaker 1:

Well, it gave me. I did. I did my last amateur show while I was doing full-time dance, so, and they were doing a chorus one, so I was like of course I wanted to do it, but it was just gave me the experience of playing a role that I'd never played before, or just being confident and giving me the kind of permission that I could play a role. So I think that's really. That's really an important step, you know, from training to putting things into practice before you go into the professional world. So I'd say it's a great stepping stone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's amazing, that's so good. And so then you went from amateur and you got into, you know, your first professional shows. What was that like for you when you were starting out? Mean, I, I don't know about you, for me I was just on cloud nine, you just just enjoying it. You know you're traveling and you're, you know, just experiencing this gypsy life. I like to call it for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was amazing because obviously it's the first time you've got money, so it's like, ah, like buying clothes and like doing, having like amazing meals at amazing restaurants and being shown around to all these great places in all these new cities, um, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. It was like I don't know what was the first part of the question.

Speaker 2:

Again, no, it's okay, um, just looking at your, you know, getting into the career and how much you enjoyed, just, you know, starting out and really living that. You know professional life. I think a lot of the time people are, you know, waiting for that moment and then when you do get into it, you do really have that release and be like this is pretty cool and you just get that door opens to going oh, this is something that I really want to do and yeah, well, that's right.

Speaker 1:

It's like you know, on my first show there were a couple of celebrities. So there was Chrissy Amflet, who some of you may know was the lead singer of the Diviners, one of the biggest Australian bands, for years. So getting to meet her and, of course, todd McKinney was in my first show as well, so, and getting to meet her, and, of course, todd McKinney was in my first show as well, so, and he wasn't a celebrity then, but he was just such a great character, so charismatic, but yeah, and Chrissy taking myself and another young cast member under her wing, and just, you know, it's those moments that you will cherish for your lifetime. Yeah, besides doing the show and besides having this amazing audience and the show being, you know, received so well and and you being able to say I do musical theatre and they go, what show are you doing? And people know it and they're so excited for you, so there's that as well. But, yeah, it was really just meeting the people and doing the work. That was the most exciting part, as well as earning money.

Speaker 2:

That was really nice too yes, I mean it's sometimes I don't know if you still feel it to the day when you're on stage and you're performing, you're just doing your thing. You do have those moments where you go. That's right. I'm gonna be paid to do this, which is yeah awesome that we can have something that we love, because a lot of people don't get to, you know, work in a profession that they love.

Speaker 1:

So that's right, and I also think from my experience with, say, like Chrissy or other other older cast members that I have had the pleasure of meeting, it's just that the way that they treated me was so beautifully so I always it was like they were being my role models, so I've always then gone well. That's how I want to treat younger cast members and I want to be that loving older person for those people that are first in the industry as well, and supportive, so I just feel like I'm hand passing on that to me would you say that was something that you learned really quickly.

Speaker 2:

When you got into the industry. You started to look at the people that are already been there doing it and absorbing. You know being being kind of a sponge still, even though you did your training, did you find yourself being, you know, still open minded? You know, when you got there, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And also just watching them work and just being so amazed at their abilities. And you know, someone would come off having done just a tiny little acting scene but you'd just be like, how did you do that? How do you do that? How do you like physicalize that? How do you make someone laugh by those two, three lines you had? You know. So it's. It was watching them and just being wanting to be like them and wanting to learn how to do that, and and being a sponge at the same time. I remember myself and my best mate, mate Nat Marsland um, who we did shows together for years because we look very similar. We would sit in the wings like sit. I don't know if we're allowed to do that anymore, but we would sit in the wings all the time and just watch everyone. We'd just be in the way, we'd be told to move all the time, but we would always be sitting in the wings watching Chrissy work, Jill Perriman work, you know so yeah.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's so inspiring, I love that.

Speaker 2:

And now, looking at your career and going from the beginning of your career and where you are now, I mean that takes quite a big, not only responsibility, but also a massive effort to sustain the career that you have, and a lot of people may feel like they burn out or they get exhausted or there's a time where they need time away. I would love us to start talking a little bit about the longevity that you've created over your career and how you've sustained that. I already can tell for any artist it it's not this one straight line. There's always highs and lows, and I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, I have had some breaks in between work and there was a time, you know, in my 20s, where I'd pick up a lot of teaching work. You know I'd be working three jobs. I'd be working in a restaurant, then I'd be working, I worked at a kids casting agency and I worked teaching dance at VCA. So there was like lots of things that I was doing to keep me busy. But in the meantime I was doing classes, I was doing singing lessons to pay, you know, I had to work three jobs to pay for all of that. And then and and, choreographing things for my friends or choreographing things with my friends. That kind of kept me going, kept our juices flowing. Going to see lots of shows, lots of comedy festival stuff, just to keep the juices flowing. Go go see plays, yeah. And I think as I got a little bit older, I started my own business.

Speaker 1:

So I know a lot of people will go back and study while they're doing shows, because you have a lot of spare time during your days, especially if you're not understudying, um. But once your understudy rehearsals are done, you've got a lot of spare time during your day. So studying is always a great thing to take on if you're feeling like you need something else. But yeah, I started a business. So I have a um, a preschool music and movement business where I take my programs into preschools, and so I used to teach it myself.

Speaker 1:

For the first year I took a year off work to establish the business, and then after that I wanted to go back to performing because I never want to give that up if I don't have to, and so I have teachers teaching for me now, so they teach my programs, I go do a show, I run the business, and so that kind of keeps me, yeah, gives me something else to focus on and not just the work, and it also it's that thing of not having to chase teaching all the time. Every time I finish a gig as well, I just go back to my work, you know. So there's always good to kind of establish something of your own, or or a relationship with a school that you can always go back to, or a relationship with a workplace that you can always go back to, so you're not desperately like trying to grab it just when you finish a gig.

Speaker 2:

I mean that's great and I think a lot of people in the industry need to hear this, because I we have found that if you're out there and you are getting to the end of a contract and you have nothing coming up, the stress comes in and we can talk about this in a moment. But with that stress, if you don't have anything in place and the structures in place, of course that's going to happen. So being open to being okay with with not having to be in a show but having something else to fall back on is really going to be that kind of pillow to support you when you're not in work. And if you can find it you know not, I know a lot of people aren't teachers themselves or they don't enjoy it find what works for you and actually be okay with that, the amount of whatever it is. I've been.

Speaker 2:

There's so many people in the arts that I've met that are doing that, are so happy to work in a cafe after a musical or to go do a job that's completely different from the arts because they say it actually grounds them. So if anyone's listening today and you're doing that job and not feeling fulfilled, know that you know a, have that gratitude to know that you have something that you can fall, feeling fulfilled, know that you know A have that gratitude to know that you have something that you can fall back on and know that it doesn't identify you in you know in terms of your success, because you know we're all, at the end of the day, got to pay that rent and Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I've worked in so many restaurants. You know that that was my bread and butter during my twenties, you know. So there's no, there's no like that's just what it is. It just is what it is. You know, if you can work in a dress shop and get free clothes, then good on you. I really enjoyed the restaurant atmosphere because I'm a bit of a night owl, but yeah, I just whatever it is that you do find that. And I also think that it's really important to save money before the contract ends so that at least you have a buffer if you need to just take a break or save up and go on an overseas holiday or just to Bali or whatever you know, just to have a little break or whatever. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think save up a buffer yeah, and I mean that's a really good tool and a tip that when you do, if you're starting out in the industry or even if you've been doing the industry for a while, it can be really great to set up something at the start.

Speaker 2:

When you get started because, hey, the money will be coming in, you'll get excited, you'll want to buy the things and definitely do that, get it out of your system.

Speaker 2:

But if you do even and you don't even need much like to help you after but if you do set up a thing on the side to help you, you're going to be less stressed financially, because I think a lot of people do get stressed with the financial you know side.

Speaker 2:

But if you do have those systems in place, you know you're going to help yourself basically in the in the long run and also help you build that knowledge of you know, independence and how to look after yourself and potentially even your family, which is a great segue to going into the next topic, which is you know how do we balance the life outside of work and performing? Because I've I've ran into a bunch of beautiful performers and a lot of the feedback we're getting from the listeners on here is that they don't know how to balance life and performing, and if they're not in a show, they don't know what to do with their day. So I mean, you have a family and been touring whilst having children too, so I would love you to talk a little bit more about the topic on that.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So at the start, when my kids were quite little, I would tour with them. So that was very handy and I would negotiate with the producers for a second bedroom whenever I was out of town. So that's kind of a key thing to know and I would have nannies and au pairs, and then the rest of the time obviously it was me, but because I was traveling a lot of the time on my own, it was just me on my own. So my partner would be back in Bay City, sydney.

Speaker 1:

So it is possible to tour with children. But now that they're a little bit older they don't want to come anymore because they have a choice. So they stay at home now, and so a lot of the responsibility gets left with my partner. And my kids are also uber independent these days because they've needed to be. They're very supportive of what I do and that I have to go away sometimes, but I try to get home as much as I can. So I guess that kind of balance is that as long as the kids know that they're loved and that you're coming home and that you want to be home and that you are caring about what they're doing and you stay in knowledge of what they're doing and where they are emotionally. I think that's the key, as opposed to having to be in their face all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yes, of course, although it's really nice to be home as well. Yeah, so I think that's the balance for me is just to make sure that my kids know that they're still supported and loved and I care about their everyday happenings. I can't always physically be there when I'm touring with a show. I think also, I guess the balance if you don't have a family, um, I think, is finding something that you love to do, like I mean exercise, yoga, pilates, go to the gym. You know obviously you'll need to work, but, um, yeah, I just think, find something that you love that can keep you stimulated when you're on a long tour. You know it's 18 months.

Speaker 1:

We were in perth and it was a eight month, eight week season in perth at the at the end of the um, you know season, and so you know it's work and home and sleep, and work and home and sleep, and and I just think that you need to find something you're passionate about. If it's hiking, go and find all the, all the mountains in the area. If it's the beach, go and visit all the beaches in the area. If you're a foodie, go and plan all the restaurants you can go and see.

Speaker 2:

I think, just if you're into arts and crafts make things you know, yeah, I mean we've seen people on shows when it's a long run.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

There will be a knitting station all of a sudden knitting, or people have chess and all these other things. So that's amazing that you give great advice to find something else that you love and also be okay with that. I, you know, I continue to see people that are so wrapped in their heads that if they're not doing performing or dancing, then you know, then they're no one, because, of course, you spend so much time learning the tools and dedicating your life to being a performer. But know that if you are in a contract contract, you've got to give yourself that bit of ease and go. Actually, you know, I'm in a new city. Let's go explore that and make the days you know fill your cup up. I like to say so, and things like you mentioned yoga and other forms of physical exertion will actually help you balance and make you stronger mentally and physically for the show as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think it's also important that you establish who you are. So having time outside of the industry is a really big way of establishing who you are without work and how people perceive you and how you relate to other people without being in a contract or without having that status that you may put on. That it's a yeah, it's a really big thing to be, to be out of work and still feel that you have that status as a performer, even though you're not performing at that point, and so I think it's it's a big learning curve to be out of work and still feel the value that you have as a performer, even if you get five rejections of auditions. You know if you can get five rejections and learn something from each five of those or have things to work on with, say, your singing teacher. Or go oh you know what I'm going to go and do a quick acting. You know workshop or whatever you know. I think that those things are really they kind of provoke growth. You know workshop or whatever you know. I think that those things are really they kind of provoke growth. You know self growth.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, so I think having time outside the industry is a really good way to find out who you are, how you cope with stress and how you know. And then, when you get the jobs, you're grateful. And then you can plan from there about how you're going to do the best with that job that you have. You know whether it's performing or whether it's financially or whether it's to study or whatever you want to achieve in that that time that you have that job. But yeah, time out of work is your growth period.

Speaker 1:

So don't ever like you know, I know you. You tell I've done it myself. You turn out to parties, you're not in a show. You tell I've done it myself. You turn out to parties, you're not in a show, but you feel so awkward because you don't have a show or you're not the latest click group, that's. You know in that show. But it doesn't matter, you're there, you're part of the industry, people know who you are. Enjoy the night, say hi to as many people as you want to or don't want to and just have a good time. And you know, don't put too much pressure on yourself. You know that's your world too. Whether you're in a show, it's still your world yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing. Great, great, great advice we're going to start talking about as we wrap up the episode a little bit about versatility within the industry and how important it is to keep that open mind even when you're in the industry, to keep working on your weaknesses and keep playing on your strengths yeah.

Speaker 1:

So just to add to that, yeah, it's. It's kind of hard to talk about things as weaknesses because you don't want to like. Yeah, I always felt as a dancer that my weaknesses were my voice, and so I've gone through the entire industry thinking that that was my weakness. But as I get older I realize that it's actually been part of my superpower and I just haven't given myself enough credit. Do you know what I mean? So it's really silly, I think, to talk about weaknesses and just find whatever it is that works for you and don't compare yourself to other people. I think a weakness is comparing yourself to other people, and I think versatility is the key. If you can just try everything, work on everything, versatility is the key, I think, for longevity as well. And don't compare yourself to other people, because you're at your own unique kind of being, your own unique talents.

Speaker 2:

You're never going to do something the same way as someone else does it, but that amazing, unique way that you do it might be that special thing you know, the only way to find that is through that versatility, through doing as many different classes, as many different types of shows or as many different types of working with different types of people discovering different texts. The learning never stops. That's the thing of this month's episodes that the learning never stops. Whenever you're getting into the industry, there's much knowledge you can just continue absorbing that will help you with that growth mindset and help you coming forward.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, you don't have any power over what the casting people or director sees you as. And you know, obviously I, as a what was I? I think it was like just before I was 30 and I was understudying women who are in their fifties, you know. So you don't really have a choice about what they are going to cast you in. So I just think, do it all. 20 year old, try and tackle the role of an older lady. You know, yeah, if you're, if you're quite an innocent, you know, kind of ingenue, try something a bit more ballsy and a bit more character filled. And you know, I just think. And the other way around, if you're a bit more ballsy and character filled, then try something a little bit more meek. And you know, just try and really be as versatile as you can, because you don't have a choice about what you're cast in and you just have to try everything and try it all and just do your best.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, wonderful, wonderful advice. To finish off the episode, I'll ask you one final question, which we've been asking in the studio and now on zoom is that if you could go back to yourself you know, go all the way back and you're starting yourself in the industry or maybe you've come out of you know whopper and you're starting what advice would you give yourself and even the listeners that are currently in musical theater? They're just starting, or maybe they're in full-time and they're just about to break into the industry?

Speaker 1:

Preparation is my biggest advice Always be prepared, always prepare your work. Yeah, you just need self-belief, don't you? Because you, you know that's all you have and preparation will help with that self-belief if you've done the work. I think that's the biggest thing for me. There are times in my life when I've looked back and I go so unfocused at those points. You know I lost, you know you lose your focus in your 20s because you're so busy, having such a good time, um, especially in shows, traveling, yeah. But I just think, keep, keep your focus, keep what you want and keep working on it and preparation, and always keep your uniqueness and don't compare yourself to anyone else, because you might be just the thing they're looking for.

Speaker 2:

That's it Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Lisa, for being on today.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you're welcome.

Speaker 2:

There's so many amazing nuggets in there that people are going to go away with and absorb. Be that sponge. Continue working. You know, talking about things like persistence is everything. Just keep going, continue studying, explore what you need to explore, and something that was just a big highlight of what you said before is basically, your weakness is your superpower. So maybe this is time, if you're listening, to go and have a little look at the things that maybe you're considering a weakness and resisting against and dive into it.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, thank you so much, lisa, for being here thank you, taylor you've been listening to the dive podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. For more resources, tools, techniques and tips, you can head to our website, wwwthedivecomau. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review for us, and if you feel like this episode could resonate with anyone else in your network, feel free to share it online or share it with a friend directly. Be sure to check us out on Instagram with the handle at thedivecomau, where we come on each week and share a little bit more about the behind the scenes of the podcast and any upcoming workshops, classes and offers with the Dive.