The Dive Podcast
Welcome to The Dive Podcast,
Brought to you by The Dive - the No.1 support platform for performers. Helping them to navigate the challenges we face as artists. The Dive Podcast was created for performers and by performers. Birthed out of the want and need for ongoing guidance and support within the hearts, bodies, and minds of the performing arts.
Helping you go from anxious, nervous, and unsure about your future. To create solid foundations that will set you up for life! Each week a SPECIAL GUEST will be interviewed on the show (who is a professional within the arts). As we dive deeper into their stories and uncover the golden nuggets of advice, you will begin to understand the tips, tools, and techniques required to make a long and healthy career out of the Arts.
Hosted by Taylor Scanlan, the founder of The Dive, a Musical Theatre performer with over 10 years in the industry, a Dance and Yoga Teacher as well as a Sound Healer.
Discover why The Dive Podcast is rising to become the No.1 support podcast for performers....pick the topic you are currently struggling with in the episodes below and we will see you on the other side! ;)
The Dive Podcast
25: How To Gain Confidence & Beat The Comparison Game with Tom Sharah
What happens when you leave your passion behind and then find it again, thriving even more? Our special guest, Tom, shares his exciting journey from a high school student who gave up on dance and theater to a university student who fell back in love with the arts. After winning the Australian Cabaret Showcase, Tom’s career took off. He landed roles in shows like "The Drowsy Chaperone" and performed "Priscilla" on a European cruise ship. His story shows how hard work and dedication can lead to success in the world of performing arts.
In this episode, Tom talks about the challenges he faced, like dealing with self-doubt and trying not to copy others. He learned to embrace his own unique qualities and experiences. Tom shares important advice for young performers about staying confident, understanding that missed opportunities are just steps on the path to success, and believing that what’s meant for you will come in its own time.
We also talk about the realities of the performing arts industry. Tom explains why it's important to be versatile, keep learning new skills, and stay open-minded. We discuss the value of being a grateful audience member and the truth that even experienced performers don’t have everything figured out. This episode is full of personal stories, career highlights, and helpful tips, making it a must-listen for performers at any stage of their journey.
Episode Highlights:
- Tom’s journey from giving up to rediscovering his love for the arts
- Winning the Australian Cabaret Showcase and how it boosted his career
- Performing in "The Drowsy Chaperone" and on a European cruise ship
- Overcoming self-doubt and finding his unique strengths
- Advice for young performers on confidence and resilience
- The importance of learning new skills and being open-minded
- The value of being a supportive audience member and understanding that even experienced performers are still learning
Don’t miss this inspiring and easy-to-understand conversation with Tom! Tune in for great insights and practical tips to help you succeed in the performing arts.
Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻
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Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo
Hello and welcome to the Dive. Now more than ever, we need to be finding ways to help us navigate the challenges of being an artist. You're listening to the Dive podcast, a show specifically designed for performing artists, to help you stop the stress and overwhelm and instead find ways to get on stage with confidence, passion and ease. I'm your host, taylor Scanlon. I'm a fellow performing artist and founder of the Dive, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. Each and every week, we have a brand new guest on the show who is a professional in the industry to discuss their unique stories and help us tackle the industry challenges. To help you perform, rest and excel at your peak. I believe that we all have a unique story to share, but most of our struggles are common. So, without further ado, let's dive right in, let's get to work and create a career of a lifetime. All right, thank you so much, tom, for being on the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I was very flattered that you asked.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course, everyone's so excited to hear from you today and talk on the topics of confidence and also on comparison. A lot of emerging performers here on this show that listen in tune in each week have been messaging us at the Dive and really been having those problems of how to deal with those things that performers inherently go through, and that's what we'll be chatting about today. But to start off, I would love to kind of have you share a little bit about your journey in the performing arts industry.
Speaker 2:Okay, look, I actually sort of had quite an unconventional introduction, at least, to musical theatre. I like come from like a show business family. My dad was is a performer. He's sort of more retired these days, but my mum's an arts journalist. My dad is a performer, so I was lucky that I had a lot of access to it as a kid. I saw a lot of theatre and I loved it and I danced through primary school. I did dance classes on the weekend. I loved that. But when I got to high school, for one reason or another a myriad of reasons, probably all sort of based in insecurity and fear I kind of kicked it all to the side and I sort of convinced myself I didn't want to perform. So I didn't dance or do any performing at all through all of high school.
Speaker 1:And then when?
Speaker 2:I went to uni, I did. I moved away to Bathurst in country new south wales and I at a university called charles dirt and they had a really great communications program. And I did a bachelor of arts and I majored in theater and media but even there it was kind of as a course. It was like it was sort of teaching you to be a jack of all trades but master of none, with theater making sort of like the foundations of theater making from the ground up. So we learned everything, you know sort of a little bit of stage management and production management, script writing, all that sort of stuff and even my major work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was an amazing experience.
Speaker 2:But even my major work I wrote it and directed, directed it, but I didn't really perform, even at uni bar a couple of times when that and when I did do that and it was the first time I'd ever sung in front of people- I kind of it sort of clicked to me that that is my passion and it's what I wanted to do, and I sort of was like I left uni at 21, you know, realizing that I did want to be a performer and obviously 21 is very young in the biggest scheme of things. But in terms of training, you know, most people have been training since they were kids and I had no. I had like a sort of basic facility there, you know, but I had no refined skill set whatsoever. So I had to kind of get the ball rolling and I wasn't sure if there was a place for me in musical theatre. I didn't really see myself up there. There wasn't a lot of roles or shows that I connected with.
Speaker 2:So I started doing singing lessons and then I entered a competition called the Australian Cabaret Showcase and basically you had to do like an eight-minute set with like a little bit of dialogue and two songs, and I had about two songs in my book at that point. I'd been singing for like a couple of months. I was like I'll sing my two songs and I'll just talk a bit of shit and I'll see what happens. And look, long story short, I won that. And so when I won that I was like commissioned to write and perform my own cabaret show at the Adelaide Cabaret Festival, where the artistic directors at the time were Lisa and David Campbell, who became real mentors for me, lisa in particular.
Speaker 2:But it was just like baptism by fire, like I'd gone from sort of having no experience whatsoever, and then I had to, like, write and perform a 70 minute. You know, one-man show and, like cabaret, is so exposing and you're so vulnerable out there because you don't have anything to hide behind, like literally and I'm singing 12 songs a night and I did not have the facility or the stamina to do that.
Speaker 2:So it was. You know, I was learning everything the hard way, it was just, but it was an incredible apprenticeship and it I sort of really came to life doing it. So for the first sort of five years of my career that's what I was doing. I was like a gig pig, as we used to say back in the day, like I just I was doing cabarets and concert work and all this sort of other stuff, just like gigging and learning on the job. And then eventually, about 10 years ago now, I did my first musical, which was the Drowsy Chaperone at the Hays, and that was a great experience.
Speaker 2:And then I auditioned to go on a cruise ship and do Priscilla through Europe and like this was perfect. I was in like my mid-20s and it was an amazing way to travel and Priscilla had been a show that I had seen at a very formative time for me. I was like 18, so I was just, I was, I was um, finding myself in so many ways and Priscilla was a real um. It was a special experience for me watching it because I kind of I saw myself on stage, I sort of the story I really connected with that. I was like just coming out, like you know, finding my true, authentic self.
Speaker 2:So that was a really great show of mine. And then I got that on the ship and that was my sort of gateway in, because I knew that that was right for me and I knew I could bring something to that. And once I did that and I came back off the ship, I had worked with Andrew Horsworth, who was the choreographer on that show, and when I came back my agent sort of called me and said that they had been workshopping Muriel's Wedding, the musical, for about two years or maybe even longer. At that point, yeah, wow, they had one male track that they couldn't cast and, um, it was like an ensemble track and to cover this specific role.
Speaker 2:And basically I don't know if andrew got me in the door, like I don't know why they came to me, but I went in and did a work session, basically, and it all sort of just clicked for me and I got that job, and I got that on the back of Priscilla, you know, I think. And from there the momentum just sort of started going with musical theatre and I sort of found my feet in that and now, like, very luckily and happily, I've been doing musicals for, you know, seven or eight years, really, sort of back to back. But like I say all that stuff to say that I'm essentially untrained and everything I've learned has been on the job, like every job has been my apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:So it's an unconventional way to do it because I'm, you know, surrounded by people that had incredible training at VCA and WAPA and whatnot. But you know, everyone's journey is different, I guess. So it's been great and I'm still here kicking a leg with you in Sunset Boulevard, and that's it.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 2:You never stop learning Like I know that that's a cliche, but it's true and the sort of the endurance and the stamina and all those things. You know it just it comes with experience and we're so fortunate to work with so many talented people performers, creatives, whatnot. So you know, you just got to always be a sponge and I I feel myself improving and I feel my confidence growing with every gig and, um, yeah, I sort of. I I'm glad my my path has been the way it's been.
Speaker 1:Now it sort of works really well for me that's amazing, like everything that you were just speaking about, and how inspiring that would be for a lot of performers here listening in that you know a lot of the time we're thinking that we got to learn every little piece of thing to feel you know, ready in quotations to go and do the thing. But from your experience in hearing that, that's so inspiring because a lot of what you learn you don't learn in training and even though there are amazing training facilities, like you've just mentioned, that can help you, there is so much unknown that is awaiting when you do get started in the best possible way.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. Oh so good. And coming into confidence. Within that, there was a lot of times when you were just speaking about how opportunities kind of presented themselves and you didn't necessarily feel ready but you just jumped into it. And what I saw from your story is that you're someone that is just taking action and just gone and jumped and just like seen where you fell along the way. That's really inspiring, and have you always been like that, or how did that kind of confidence come about?
Speaker 2:oh god you know, like I always feel like I look back and I'm like, when you're younger, I mean maybe not for everybody, but I just feel like we're more fearless when we're younger, you know, and that is really the time where you do just throw all this shit at the wall and see what sticks, you know, yes, and I, I look back now and I go, god, I I had brawn, like I, I really just went for it, and a lot of the things. I'm much more kind of hesitant with things these days. I sort of and I try and get a bit of what of that of younger, younger me.
Speaker 2:I try to remind myself of those challenges that I faced, you know, face on, back in the day and implement it now because, yeah, like I said you know, kind of using everything as an apprenticeship and a learning ground was what sort of helped me sort of persevere in the industry. And so now, yeah, every time I audition for something, I sort of try and remind myself that I have something to share, not something to prove, you know. And that's really helped me along the way, sort of not limiting myself and sort of going that, at the end of the day, that my point of difference is the only thing that separates me from other people. Because, like we said, you know, I think there's so much access to YouTube and to cast recordings and all that sort of stuff. So, yes, mimicry can only get you so far and there's so much talent, like there is always going to be people that can sing the notes and and do the, do the double, you know, like all that sort of stuff. So that's it, if you can try and lean into the idea that you have something authentically that only you can do and only you can bring, it opens your world to the opportunities and it allows people to let you in.
Speaker 2:And that's what clicked with me because, like, for the first five years I wasn't getting anywhere really in musicals, and I was sort of always like, oh, I just don't fit or I'm just not right for it. But I think that I was trying to fit in. I was trying to be what I thought they wanted me to be. Yet I was there sort of thriving in this world that was so exposing and such a challenge and I was like why?
Speaker 2:can I feel confident and feel valued and validated in this context but not in this other one. And so like, as soon as I sort of shifted that mindset, the doors opened for me. And so like, as soon as I sort of shifted that mindset, um, the doors opened for me and I'm, and I like that and I would always push people, encourage people to always do that, because then when you do like I mean, look, as you know, we eat no's for breakfast like even when you've been working a long time every one, yes, you, yes.
Speaker 2:You get nine no's. When you eventually do get in that room and you start rehearsals, when you know that you've brought your authentic self to it and that you have been selected because of what you bring, you feel like an important part of that jigsaw puzzle and you feel valued and you feel like you've earned your place to be there and that you have the license to bring yourself to the shows. I like that feeling a lot and I try these days to only audition for things that I feel I could bring something to and sort of feel happy doing. Question.
Speaker 1:No, that's great. Yes, absolutely yeah. I was like I don't know where to start now.
Speaker 1:No, it's great, it was absolutely great. You know, maybe coming into a little bit of. Is there any advice or maybe, even so, like some practical tips? You know there's a lot of emerging performers on here that hear a lot of us talk about all these things, but they're stuck. They don't know where to start or how to kind of move forward. Is there any tips or practical advice that you would give to someone that is currently experiencing that, either self-doubt or that lack of confidence, to just go for it?
Speaker 2:Look, I would say that a sort of mantra I sort of live by is another person's success is not your failure.
Speaker 2:So as soon as you stop comparing yourself to others and and like focus on on your own journey, like keep your eyes on your own fucking bit of paper, basically, and as soon as you start, you know, what I mean as soon as you find that focus that's going to help you so much, because it is intimidating, like we are in a competitive industry, literally like for every audition you go to, you are going to be surrounded by colleagues and peers and good friends, and that's. It's hard to keep your head above water, but when you're feeling, when you're feeling, you know, vulnerable and a little insecure, remind yourself that, yeah, like, I guess in a more holistic way, that what is meant for you doesn't pass you by. You know, I always sort of think that and I go and there's opportunities that you put all your eggs in this basket and it means so much to you at the time and it doesn't come off and it's super disappointing. But I guarantee you that a couple of years later you will look back and you will sort of realize that had that happened, this wouldn't have happened or I wouldn't have met this person or done this job. And so I think that, like, of course, like practical advice, don't get it twisted.
Speaker 2:You need to diversify, you need to make sure you're as versatile as you can be, you need to continue to work on your skillset, you need to diversify, you need to make sure you're as versatile as you can be. You need to continue to work on your skill set. You need to open your eyes and your ears and listen and watch and learn all the time, but remember that setbacks are just part of it. Putting your energy into what other people are doing is pointless. And also like allow yourself to be a kind and generous audience member.
Speaker 2:I think that being in the audience is as important as being on stage, and like it would surprise you how many people are kind of incapable of sitting in an audience without feeling bitter or resentful or yeah, and I understand that it comes from insecurity, but I think you stunt your growth. I think if you don't allow yourself to be inspired by what you see, it stops you from from persevering and like I'm sure you're the same.
Speaker 2:I've met now a lot of young people and I was, yeah, right, but I've met a lot of young people and I remember those kids or those teenagers that are coming to see everything and know the work people have done and and love the shows and and let them, and let let the work feed their souls, and I always sort of go. We'll be seeing them. They are the people that will be on stage because I can see the focus and I can see that they allow themselves to be inspired. So basically, I mean, it's not practical advice but just like get out of your own way you know like get out of your own way and yeah, stay focused.
Speaker 1:And was there any point that you can remember, even in your career, where you had those blocks or you felt I don't know if I could do this, and that you kind of learned some advice from someone? Was there anyone along the way that kind of guided you? I mean, we come across, both of us, so many amazing mentors and people that we get to work with, but was there a specific moment or moments where that kind of happened for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, it's interesting. I mean I guess you know, like circling back, I guess the validation of getting a job, like and see something with Muriel's Wedding, which was sort of my first big commercial musical here, something with that that was very validating is once I got in that job and this was a brand new musical, like a world premiere, that was being built from the ground up. And this was a brand new musical, like a world premiere, that was being built from the ground up.
Speaker 2:And so then being in the room and sort of feeling like I was a part of that, of this sort of genetic fabric it sort of it made me realise that for all the times that I had felt sort of not good enough or not talented enough or not ready, I was sort of I was standing in my way with that and I was drawing a conclusion that wasn't there. It was just this was the right thing for me and that gave me the encouragement. And seeing those people seeing amazing creatives like Simon Phillips and Andrew Horsworth and Kate Miller-Heinke and people like that the fact that they trusted me to be a part of that really incredible group of people and whatever it sort of meant that I was able to go into my next things, feeling like I deserved to be there. And so sometimes it just takes that little silver proof.
Speaker 2:You know, like as performers, we are like we live for the applause and we live for the laughter, and so you know I don't know if it's a specific person- but I guess, like, yeah, specific experiences and there's something really humbling about working with people that you've looked up to and admired and seeing how much they still love to be in the room and how much they love to also be, to learn from others and be inspired by others. Yeah, I've just worked with a lot of good actors who have shown me the you know, the right sort of work-life balance and respect and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I can't think of a specific example, but it's more just sort of something that happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely, and yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think a lot of performers on here are, you know, so eager to have this life and to get into the performing arts industry. I hope that from today, that people can kind of get that. Once you get into the industry, you know the learning never stops. You know we also experience things like comparison and the things we're talking on today. I think, and maybe you can agree with me, that a lot of performers I even actually did a workshop recently and I asked them do you feel like the people that are on stage have it all figured out? You know, have it. You know, super confident, have their meals organized, go to the gym, whatever every day. And you'd be shocked at Tom, like, how many people were like, yes, of course they are, like they must be.
Speaker 2:And it's just not the truth. It's not the truth. I actually think that for us, like we just actually worked with a student from VCA, didn't we? A student from VCA came into the little sort of stint with us in Sunset Boulevard and I we're in awe of them. You know, these amazing kids and people and young adults who are entering this big sort of world, and I feel like so many of them are so balanced and determined and seem to have their heads screwed on and I'm like god, what was I like that, do you know? Like I feel we don't have it together at all.
Speaker 1:We're all just kind of, we're surviving and thriving in time general.
Speaker 2:We're surviving and doing the best that we can and that's what it will always be like, that, like you're always problem solving, you're always navigating the balance of life and work and all those sorts of things. But yeah, like the theater and and the job, when you eventually get it should feel like some sort of salvation and it's certainly the payoff of a lot of hard work but like there's also people that aren't going to get a job for a long time.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you'll never get the job that you want to get or that you thought you wanted to get. And that doesn't make you less of a performer. That doesn't invalidate your talent. Like the opportunities are endless and you can create, work you, the people you meet, like, don't, don't let the construct and the idea of, like commercial musical theater being the be all and end all. Um, don't cramp your style because it's not. Like I said, like I I worked for five years without ever stepping foot through a stage or over commercial musical, like you know, and I was as happy then as I am now. It's just things I was making a living from performing and if you can make that happen for yourself, whatever way, or you know, side hustle other interests, like you know. I just think don't get bogged down by what you think are other people's expectations of you, because they don't exist. It's just what you sort of put on yourself.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'm so happy you said that about that. You know, really there is a lot of opportunity and I mean now if you're in Australia, and in the musical theatre scene there is an abundance of shows and opportunities coming and it's definitely not going anywhere. And I know that a lot of performers can feel that rush, especially after training or even during training, that there is this cap or limited time to in quotations, have success or make it or whatever. And there are so many more stories that people don't realize that people after full time or training take so long like or not even so long.
Speaker 2:It's their journey, right, but it's not a normal thing for someone to come straight out of full-time and, like get into a show and I feel like that's all that's posted everywhere totally and in fact I actually think that, not that it's important, but I I don't think it's a bad thing maybe to to uni or whatever course you've done and to and to have to wait a little bit until you get your first job, because that is the reality. So cute, that's the reality of the industry. Like you know, like we can, we can all tell you that, like I before this job, like I had done the, you know, one of the biggest jobs I've ever done just before this, and it was a real career highlight for me and a huge challenge. And I was sort of leading a show and I had I take this, really, you know, this big box for myself and I was feeling really proud of it. And then, after that radio silence, you know, for for it.
Speaker 2:It was six months after that that I got this job, and then we waited another three months to start it.
Speaker 2:So you know, when we started sunset sunset I had done smaller things, but I haven't done a big contract in nine months and that's that's the reality of it like you will go big stretches of time not working and you know just, you find other ways to to sort of keep your head above water and to try and stay inspired. And it just kind of what it does, is it? It gives you, and when you then do walk into your next rehearsal room, you appreciate it so much more. You know. So, don't let those moments of silence put you off. Let them, you know, light the fire under your ass to keep going.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh my gosh, yes, and that's it, Like I think as well. Yeah, people only seeing those highlight moments of, oh, they've booked another show. But that's it, like I think as well. Yeah, people only seeing those highlight moments of, oh, they've booked another show. But there has been even in my career as well, like six months, seven months, nine months, where I haven't been working.
Speaker 1:And I think, if you are in training now, a lot of people are just rushing, like I said, to get out and to get into it.
Speaker 1:But you, right now, are like you're setting the foundations and you're listening in if you're training, are like you're setting the foundations and you're listening in.
Speaker 1:If you're training, and or maybe even if you've just come out of training, you've just learned how to apply and create a kind of a routine that that serves you. You have been told to when to show up, when to eat and all of that, so it can be overwhelming when you then all have had, have this space and time to be like, what do I fill it with? But I would, you know, suggest to don't let that discourage you. Allow this space to be like right, where can I focus more on what I want to do? Because when you are training, you're doing a variety of everything, but have this time and maybe the years that you're still training afterwards to get into the industry. That use this to really dive deep and to learn. You know, learn from mentors, like through the dive or listening through this podcast and other people, um, because that's been found foundational, um and fundamental to a lot of guests that we've had on here.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, and it's really easy to have an identity crisis when you're not working or when when you hear that.
Speaker 2:And so you know, yeah, like you said face that and um, face that and learn more about yourself and how it makes you happy and what other interests you have and all those great things is a kind of springboard, because this will always be there for you. Like, if you keep going and you keep persevering, an opportunity will present itself. You know when it's meant to, but it's the sort of gaps in between that you need to be able to not drown. Yeah, I sometimes I kind of think that if that happens a little bit earlier, maybe it's for the better, because I think you said something earlier. You know, like, when you come out of school or whatever and you go from show to show to show, it's a fabulous life, like we love it, but it ain't reality.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:That will last, and so sometimes it can be a real thud back to reality when that stops. So I think a little balance of the two is good. It keeps you humble and keeps you sort of at equilibrium.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And if someone is listening in right now and they have either finished training and they're going, they're doing the dude, they're auditioning, nothing's kind of landing, what advice would you give to someone that is, you know, doing it but you know, a maybe not like starting to kind of decline because it's, it's tough, right, you, we, we, even us, like we don't start. It feels like we start back at square one when we go back to an audition. We're with everyone and you know it can feel like you're kind of going backwards a lot of the time in in your career. But what advice would you give to, you know, performers that have maybe not made it into a musical yet, that they're trying and, um, yeah, to kind of help them move forward?
Speaker 2:look, do you know what I think? First I would say I see you and I feel you and it sucks, like it does. I think it's really easy to always just immediately be like don't worry, like just keep pushing on and keep pushing, and sometimes people go I'm tired and I'm exhausted, and the harsh reality is that that is going to happen quite a lot If there is something else that interests you and something else that you have a passion for. But if there is something else that interests you and something else that you have a passion for, spend your time investing in that as well, so that you can sort of feel stimulated in another way. But if this is what you want to do and you love it and it feeds your soul, I promise it will.
Speaker 2:Eventually something will take shape and present itself to you. So it's the balance of looking after yourself and also putting emphasis on other things, but persevering and like circling back to sort of what I said earlier, reminding yourself that you uh, only you can add that special sauce that you have. Like you are an individual and what you are putting down somebody will pick up, like somebody will buy, selling, and it might feel like they never will, but it just means the right opportunity hasn't come for you yet. So, like, don't dilute yourself, don't hide yourself, keep keep on, keeping on and just keep going, going. Like I said, diversify, keep working on your skill set. Go and see some fucking theatre, like, go and sit in the audience and allow yourself to learn and be inspired. Yeah, and lift others up around you. They will lift you up and something will happen. But I feel you yeah, it's freaky Absolutely Well, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tricky, absolutely Well. Thank you for, like, all of this information. I feel like listeners have already kind of ticked the box of what you need to do. You know, get up, get moving, get to some shows. I definitely recommend that too. You know, of course, within your budget there, even if it's not a professional musical, there's so many amazing other shows that are around that you can start to immerse yourself in um to reignite that, that inspiration, because when you are going ahead and doing the do, you can feel like uninspired, even going to a different class or learning from different people. That can also really help you, um, in different ways. Is there any other like before we finish off, is there any other bits of information or insights or advice that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:Look, I don't know. I mean, I think I just, you know, even just talking to you now, you have you realize that we're such sort of fighters and we're such survivors, because everything I've sort of said and everything we do is about, you know, pushing through and pushing on, and you have to have that mentality. But I guess, like I also would just say, you know, be kind to yourself, I'm, I'm, I'm older now, you know, like, so I like when I was in my early 20s, you know, I didn't, I, I was harder on myself when things weren't going my way, whereas now I sort of let myself sit in it and go. Sometimes I just I'm like you know what, I don't have it in me to to audition. At the moment, I don't want to go to a class, I don't want to do this, and that's also okay.
Speaker 2:Like, don't, don't let yourself drown in in expectation. Be kind to yourself and and do it when you want to do it, and know that there isn't a it's not a ticking time bomb, like the opportunities will still be there if you want them, and just surround yourself with good people and get gentle with yourself, because it's a tough business but it's also a beautiful world to live in and there is a sense of community waiting for you you know, and it's lifelong, and like we're so lucky to be in it and I feel that every day, and, yeah, you're going to go through a lot of hardships, but the payoffs and the good parts of it are just, you know, incomparable, like it's invaluable and there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Speaker 2:Keep going, babe.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's it. Thank you so much and I love that you mentioned about, you know, the community on the other side. I feel as though, even when I was performing, I saw people that were booked as someone that was so separate from myself and that were all just like living their own journey, which they were but when I joined and started touring and doing shows and you can agree or disagree you know everyone's just there to have a great time and we all want to support each other.
Speaker 1:And you're all kind of like you know you're playing dress up, you're all human, you're all just. You know you're playing dress up, you're all human, you're all. You know going through the same motions and that you're actually more equal than you once thought.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent and also like going back to the whole thing about marching to the beat of your own drum and being an individual. You realize that on every job it's such a motley crew like to create a dynamic on stage. They need people of all different walks of life and that's the other beautiful thing is you meet people that you go.
Speaker 2:I would never have met you or I would never, know you, the common denominator is that we sort of glue weeks down and sing and dance for a living like it's insane, it's crazy. You learn more about the real world from it as well, and that's why you being yourself is important, because you are a specific piece of that jigsaw puzzle that that deserves to be there and that is different from everybody else and so like.
Speaker 1:Allow yourself to really lean into that for sure well, thank you so much for being on the show, tom. If the performers that are listening in aren't feeling inspired and on fire ready to go after this, I don't know what's going to get them moving.
Speaker 2:God. Thanks Tate. I don't know. I feel like I talked a lot of random stuff, but you know, stream of consciousness.
Speaker 1:That's it Getting it out. No, thank you so much for your time and energy, and if anyone has any questions for Tom or myself, you can always email us at info at thedivecomau. Thank you, tom, thanks Tote. You've been listening to the Dive Podcast, the fastest growing support platform for performing artists. For more resources, tools, techniques and tips, you can head to our website, wwwthedivecomau. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review for us, and if you feel like this episode could resonate with anyone else in your network, feel free to share it online or share it with a friend directly. Be sure to check us out on Instagram with the handle at the divecomau, where we come on each week and share a little bit more about the behind the scenes of the podcast and any upcoming workshops, classes and offers with the Dive.