The Dive Podcast

29: What Truly Matters In A Vocal Audition with Geoffrey Castles

• Geoffrey Castles • Season 2 • Episode 29

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Today, we chat with Geoffrey Castles, the amazing musical director currently working on Miss Saigon. Geoffrey shares his journey from playing the piano to becoming a musical director for big shows. He gives us great tips on preparing for auditions, especially for singing.

Highlights:

  • Geoffrey’s Journey: Learn how Geoffrey started playing the piano at age 10 and found his love for musicals.
  • First Time Conducting: Hear about Geoffrey’s first time conducting Wicked and what he learned from that experience.
  • Audition Tips: Get valuable advice on how to prepare for auditions, including being yourself, practicing well, and having a good set of songs ready.
  • Vocal Training: Understand the difference between a singing teacher and a vocal coach, and why you need both.
  • Handling Nerves: Discover ways to manage performance anxiety and stay calm during auditions.
  • Touring Abroad: Geoffrey talks about the challenges and fun of touring internationally with Miss Saigon.

What to Expect:

This episode is full of useful tips from an expert in musical theatre. Geoffrey shares easy-to-follow advice on how to shine in auditions, keep learning, and take care of yourself.

Connect with Geoffrey:

For more information and to send us questions, email us at info@thedive.com.au. Don’t forget to follow and subscribe for more fun and helpful episodes!

Show Notes:

  • Geoffrey’s background and journey in music
  • First conducting experience with Wicked
  • Tips for preparing for auditions
  • The roles of a singing teacher and a vocal coach
  • Managing nerves and staying authentic
  • Insights on touring with Miss Saigon
  • Geoffrey’s contact information and social media handles

Tune in to learn how to succeed in the musical theatre world!

Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

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Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Speaker 1:

Okay, welcome to the podcast, Jeffrey. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm so good. We were just chatting then and we met on Mary Poppins and you're as the musical director there and you're currently doing Miss Saigon as the musical director and it's just a privilege to have you on. I know a lot of people are going to get a lot out of this episode, talking about auditions and how to go about them in terms of the vocal aspect, so we're very lucky to have you on.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yay. So before we get into all auditions and that sort of thing, I'd love for you to paint a little bit of a picture First of all. Did you always want to get into being a music director? Was that always the goal?

Speaker 2:

No, I think it developed over years as I fell in love with musicals. Yeah, because I think I started playing the piano quite late I would have been maybe 10 and I very quickly decided this was something I wanted to do, but I didn't really know what it was going to be, and I think for a long time I just thought I'll be a piano teacher because that's what everyone does. And then, as I wanted to do but I didn't really know what it was going to be, and I think for a long time I just thought I'll be a piano teacher because that's what everyone does. And then, as I started to discover, it was the mega musical infiltration. At first it was the Lamey's, the Phantom, the Angeloid, webber.

Speaker 2:

And then I remember when I was in year 12, abc broadcast the recording of Into the Woods and that sort of blew my mind that there was something else out there. And then I started listening to more and finding out more, and then I was like I really think I want to do this. And then it probably wasn't until maybe later in high school when I thought maybe, oh, there's this thing. I keep seeing a musical director that sounds interesting. And then, of course, now I think why are you so silly? No, that sounds interesting. And then, of course now I think why were you so silly?

Speaker 1:

no, there's so much more to it than just turning up and conducting a show. Oh yeah, yeah, conducting just seems like a whole nother world. I don't know how you do it like. You're just there for those hours, sometimes not even sitting down, like what was the first experience for you conducting, were you? I'm sure you were.

Speaker 2:

Like the very one of the first things I remember doing was Wicked back in Sydney and I don't remember a thing about it. I remember I was. I remember when they did the five minute call or that I might've been beginners and they get a conductor call and I thought, why did I say yes to this? And I was so terrified and I don't remember a thing. And the second that the button of act two happened, I broke out into this cold sweat, yeah, and I feel like I trembled my way through the curtain call. It was terrifying.

Speaker 1:

Did it scare you off, like did you think for a minute that's never happening again?

Speaker 2:

No, no, and also I was, you know, I, I was in, like I, it was my job, so I had to get over that. Um, I think also because wicked, it's such a um, unlike anything else, it was the biggest thing I'd ever done at that point. Um, there's so much music in it, so much underscoring it was. It's a really difficult show to conduct as well. So I, I think on top of all of that and I was fairly green at the time, so it was terrifying, but I learned so much I wouldn't change a thing.

Speaker 1:

What would you say has changed since that first time? Now and now you've conducted many shows. What's been the difference for you? I?

Speaker 2:

think it's just the experience, and the more you do it, the more I don't. It's not that I don't question what I do, but I think I'm better at analyzing what I'm doing.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

So I think I just have a. My skillset is just so much better from doing it for so long, and so when things don't go right, I can pretty quickly analyze it and think was it something I did and what could I do different next time? And it just. It's really just the experience and people management and all that kind of thing that comes along with it casting, meeting the expectations of the producers, meeting the expectations of the cast and of the musicians, and all the, all those kinds of things that you have to do it. It takes a long time, I think, to be confident enough or, I guess, just secure enough to know at least have a starting point.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because you're not only looking after the cast and the vocal aspect of the show, you've got the orchestra as well, and it's a big task to undertake for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and especially once there's usually a no-debt policy, which is usually about four to six weeks after opening Right, and so if it's a longer run, once that happens, you've really got the same orchestra twice oh what's that process like?

Speaker 1:

Because I know I had a little bit of an insight to it happening on Puppins. But a lot of people probably don't even know that a lot of the time when we're touring we don't take the whole orchestra with us and it's almost like putting up a whole new show again and again.

Speaker 2:

What's that?

Speaker 1:

process like for you.

Speaker 2:

The rules vary depending on the show and where you are. The rules in New York are very different to Australia, but I tend to think of it as you don't want more than a third or a quarter of your orchestra to be Depps. Yeah, because even Depps are amazing. They prepare so well, but because they don't have the luxury of doing it every single day, it's still that little bit of there's a little bit of the unknown um which which in in. Sometimes it's really exciting to have someone come in and play something and it's different and it's really cool to hear their interpretation, um, and then sometimes, just because they're not used to playing with everyone, the ensemble is not quite as tight as it is when it's everyone who's used to it. So it's managing that in the moment and knowing it's going to be fine. It's just going to be different.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it's amazing. I can't even imagine like I see people conducting and I'm like I'm going to stay on stage. I think it's just remarkable. I think you're also very clever and I'm like I'm going to stay on stage. I think it's just remarkable. I think you're also very clever and now that you've progressed through your own career and you're currently being the music director for Miss Saigon you just come back from Taiwan has there any difference when you're touring and you're going overseas in terms of your job, and how does that differ to when you're in Australia?

Speaker 2:

I think it's a little bit more of the managerial aspect when you're overseas and again, depending on where you are, depending on who you have. In Taiwan we were so lucky we tour about it's about seven of the musicians from Australia we tour and a lot of them are the specialist instruments. The flute book has to play the Asian flutes, the Chinese bamboo flutes, the dietsa as well, which is quite specialist. The clarinet player has to play the saxophone, which is that very big featured moment on stage where whoever's playing John has to mime to a saxophone player. The percussion setup is enormous. So we tour them as well. And then in Taiwan we also, because it was so quick, we toured all of the local players from Manila that we had, which was amazing because they were fantastic and they were such lovely human beings.

Speaker 2:

So to have to actually keep that orchestra together from the start of Manila through to Taiwan was amazing and I think by Taiwan we'd mostly found our stride. It was just challenging every week in new venues. So the orchestra, much like the cast, would have to turn up on a Friday morning and just switch it on and work really hard for three days and then they get a few days off while the crew have to move. Manila was slightly different. It was the beginning and I think, depending on the level of experience of the player, touring can be really challenging. It's no different, I think, from touring around Australia. It's just when you have customs and a passport involved it feels a little bit more isolating because you can't just pop home.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's it, and some people maybe don't realise they need to prepare bringing certain things they need that are easily accessible in Australia. Some people get there and all of a sudden they don't really. I guess it's the mental aspect of touring, yes, as well as being away doing the same thing over and over again, but you suddenly don't have your support network.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, which A lot of that comes. You don't really realize until you're there too and you're trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's tough.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. There's a lot of the pastoral care that has to kick in.

Speaker 1:

Yes, a little bit. Yeah, it's amazing everything that you've been doing and I absolutely had such a dream working with you, and I hope we get to work together again very soon Me too. So let's get into auditions. It's a big buzz topic. Everyone wants to. Whenever I speak about auditions on the podcast, everyone's ears prick up and they want to know every little detail. But I thought we could have a chat about them and hone in on the vocal aspect and the singing auditions and give your advice on, from the other side, what you're seeing, especially with aspiring musical theatre performers coming in. What have you found that is the most important thing for maybe them to be understanding as they're coming in, something that maybe you're seeing more often, that you would give advice on.

Speaker 2:

I actually think we're only a couple of years out of basically two years of being locked down, were only a couple of years out of basically two years of being locked down, and I think that has affected a lot of the younger generation, because a lot of them would have been either starting or finishing their courses, yeah, around that time, and or they would have had graduated and come out into two years of very little happening. So so I think they've missed out on basically the time. There's no such thing as a shortcut, and it takes time to gain experience and confidence. So I think that they haven't. They've just missed out on that opportunity, and I think doing self-tapes are really challenging and they've all of a sudden become the way to audition yeah, literally overnight, and self-tapes are great because, from someone on the panel, it means you have access to so many more people than you used to.

Speaker 2:

I remember when we were doing Les Mis, we actually went, we did trips, online audition, first round auditions to melbourne, sydney, brisbane and perth oh wow. Whereas not depending on time constraints or availability, people may not be able to do that, and so therefore, it's a huge cost for someone who's based in perth to fly to melbourne for their audition, to possibly do a one-hour dance. Call and get cut and go home. Or even worse, coming to sing. Or even worse, coming to sing being there for five minutes, get cut and go home. Yeah, it's awful. Self-tapes are amazing for that. Self-tapes are also amazing for performers because it is something that you actually have a bit more control over. You know, when you walk into a room, you don't really know anything else except what you've decided to wear and what you're going to sing.

Speaker 1:

That's it.

Speaker 2:

That's all you have control over, whereas if you do a self-tape, you actually have a lot more control over how you're presenting yourself. But I think, in terms of people coming in the room, I think the thing that I just wish everyone knew was that we actually want you to be you, we want you to have done the work, we want you to have worked on your skills, but we actually want to see your opinion of whatever you're doing, be it a song or a dance call, or even aside from the show.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We want to know how the way you view the world influences what you're doing in the room, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

You talk a lot on authenticity. I know you'll probably bring that up a lot and yeah, it's so true, and I guess it's like you were saying, with people that are just come out of the lockdown and trying to be authentic, let's actually talk a little bit on that, like how, what recommendations would you give to bring more of themselves to the call when there's so many factors that are making them nervous? How can, how would you give to bring more of themselves to the call when there's so many factors that are making them nervous?

Speaker 2:

how can?

Speaker 1:

how would you recommend people allow themselves to be a little bit more authentic or bring themselves to the table?

Speaker 2:

if you have to do the work. You can't just hope that by getting a job and by being able to get in there and do a show eight times a week, I'm going to strengthen my skills. You're only going to strengthen what you know. You're not going to learn anything else. So you have to do the work. You have to go to dance classes, you have to do voice classes, work with a singing teacher, work with a vocal coach look at what acting classes are out there. You have to make sure that you're confident in your skills, because everyone has talent.

Speaker 2:

I don't think that should ever be questioned. But eventually you're going to be asked to do something that you can't do, and that's where technique comes in. So in order to be able to sing whatever song you're really connected to, you need to know how to use your voice. Yes, I also think it's important to be as broadly read as as you can. Take an interest in something other than music theater. Go see movies, read books, go watch a football match, do something else, because even sports psychology is very similar to performance psychology. The the biggest gift you can give yourself is to invest in yourself, because if you're, if you don't think you're worth investing in. Why should a director or a producer or a music director, or why should they take the time to explore what you have to offer absolutely?

Speaker 1:

and it's interesting because I guess a lot of I speak to heaps of performers now with this platform and something that kind of comes up is a lot of performers are just got the goal to get into the show, right. That's like they can see that and nothing else. But the work never stops, like after it. We even connect with people in the industry that still are still doing all this work and still discovering and haven't got it figured all out at all that it still needs to do the work. I love that you said that you don't learn basically everything and you get into a show and you're done. It has to continually going, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it never stops. If you can be curious and a lifelong learner, it'll serve you really well. Yeah, because who knows what someone's going to write in five or 10 years time to push the boundary and all of a sudden, oh, I need to be able to speak French while I'm hanging upside down from silks.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, my gosh I love it.

Speaker 1:

So I have some actually questions here from some people that recently just been doing some auditions and they'd love to know I know we spoke a little bit about this, but is there any other ways that people can stand out? For example, some auditions you are given the same song to sing and it's a lot of people going through. You're having to hear the same song over and over again. What recommendations or advice would you give for those people to stand out or to make it their own?

Speaker 2:

to stand out or to make it their own. It comes down to knowing how to interpret the song from your opinions. The whole idea of an overdone song or something that's sung a lot, it actually doesn't matter, because overdone songs come and go. Everyone will have a different opinion of what is overdone. But if you're just going to get up there and deliver a tribute performance to someone else's, to the way Sutton Foster sings Gimme and I can hear every single, all of her phrasing, all of her, the way she uses the text, anything that she might add, or if I hear all of that in there, then it's why have you chosen to just do a karaoke version? So it's really actually doing the work on whatever you've been given. Take the text apart. Look at the text as a monologue. Make sure you learn the music from the page, not from a recording, so that you don't it's. You often can't do anything about it just by osmosis You'll just there might be something really cool that someone does and you, just you like it, so it just seeps into your, your interpretation. But but always start with the page. There's dots on the page and there's text on the page, and start with that.

Speaker 2:

How does each line. I'm not an acting teacher. How does each line make you feel? What is the journey throughout? Whatever this excerpt or audition cut is, how do you feel about what you're saying? Were you singing this to? What are they not giving you? What do you feel about what you're saying? Were you singing this to? What are they not giving you? What do you need? Even just maybe by asking those three questions, you're probably not going to come up with the same answers as anyone else yeah, yeah, and that will put you on that directory of making that piece.

Speaker 2:

What you're saying is super authentic to you yeah, yeah, oh yeah, you're right, oh no, you, when we talk.

Speaker 1:

I love how you said a lot of people, especially people like yourself, who've been around for a while, as always saying you've got to do the work, you've got to show up, and I'd love to talk a little bit on that, because a lot of people out there don't know and I didn't even know before meeting you the difference between actually a singing teacher and a vocal coach. What are the differences of those?

Speaker 2:

we can start there yeah, depending on where you live in the world, they. It doesn't have to be your vocal coach's responsibility to teach you how to belt Fs and Gs and as, but you do get a bit of crossover. But essentially your voice teacher is there, the person who's going to look after your vocal, your voice, the technical side, and when you need to, you know most everyone should be able to sing anything. It's just it might take you some time to figure it out. So that's when you go to your voice teacher. Right, it might take you some time to figure it out. So that's when you go to your voice teacher. Great. And then, if you're looking for rep, if you're looking to put a self-tape down, if you need an accompaniment, if you maybe just need help learning the geography of a song with a piano player, that's when you can go to a coach. And again, there are people that do crossover or take elements of both and crossover.

Speaker 2:

That's great and I think a lot of people, yeah, like myself maybe everyone knows I'm just, but I think that's great to know that if you are starting out in your or even if you're continuing in your journey of learning, that there are different avenues to help you, and that, I think, will just help people get a little bit more clarity on those different things that you can go for and look for if you're needing those specific things, which is great, and I think it's important to actually have both, because you also then especially if you find two people that you really trust and you get two really great sets of ears, because hopefully by this stage you're at the stage where you may not need a voice lesson every single week, you might just need to go once a fortnight, once a month, just for little tune-ups and check-ins, and you know that's the person who will just remind you of all the things that you know. But you just sometimes need the reminder.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's the same with the coach. You can do a lot of the work yourself. It's just. It's great to go and get someone else's ear.

Speaker 1:

When coming back into auditions and people coming into the room, other than bringing your best self to the the piece that you're doing and really sharing it in a way that is authentic to you, is there any other common mistakes that you're currently seeing coming into the audition rooms lately with performers? And, yeah, is there anything that's been coming up that you would love to talk on that would help aspiring artists coming in?

Speaker 2:

I feel like potentially a lack of being prepared. Making sure that you think about what you're going to wear. Making sure that you have your music nice and neatly organized so that the pianist can read it. It's in a folder, it's marked up, nice and clearly. Making sure you actually know the song. Making sure that when you walk into the audition room it's not the first time you're doing it with a real piano player. Yes, you've got to make sure that you prepare properly and that whatever song you choose, you inside out and that you have sung it with a real piano player. A lot of people, I find. I often ask people to sing scales, which terrifies people, and it's often you see people fall apart when they just have to sing a scale.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, why do you think that is?

Speaker 2:

Because it's terrifying, because it's a pretty horrible thing to be asked to do.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I guess, because it's extending your range until you can't do it anymore.

Speaker 2:

And that's the thing. Yeah, I will always stress, test whoever's doing it. I'll always take them up until they stop phonating, or until they make, maybe, a sound that they wish they hadn't, just to know how far they can be pushed.

Speaker 1:

And you, is it that's? It's good to know that, because I guess some people may not even know that you're actually providing scales, in a way to see how, what your, where your actual range can go, especially under a stressful situation, which is essentially what may happen in a show when you're on stage in front of thousands of people. That it's not designed to basically make you feel or look bad not at all.

Speaker 2:

And that's the thing that if you're doing a show for a year and a half and there's going to come a point, in the runway everyone's got the flu and everyone's tired because you're constantly, you might have a cast change and you're constantly rehearsing and no one's ever at 100% doing a show. You arrive on the first day of rehearsal hopefully at 100%, and you never feel that good again until you leave. So that's the thing with the scales. And it's not about. The intention is not to show where your weakness is, it's just the intention to see how far you can be pushed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you also need to know your voice and know what your vocal boundaries are. It's like that classic mistake of on your cv putting your range on your cv as the range you warm up to, because a warm-up is not a performance, a warm-up is just a stretch. Yes, so you might warm up to a high C, but you actually can't comfortably sing a high C in situ in practice. And that's fine. There's nothing. Just because everything's about high notes these days, just because you're a baritone or an alto, you still have a lot to offer. We still need you. Make sure you know your range and then don't panic if you're being pushed after it, because also some people on their CV put their range, as I only sing, to an F or an G and in scales you can take them up to a B flat.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you see, it's great to see the look on their face when they sing something they never thought they could literally I've had many times where I've gone into and I'm like I've never sung up there before yeah, yeah, and so then, if that's the case, you then need to actually make sure you need to explore it. You need to make sure that, if that's something you can do, um, that you learn how to actually do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and get more comfortable with being there so you can sustain it and learn how to hold it, yeah, because you never know what's going to get you the job.

Speaker 2:

Opportunity will always come knocking, but you've got to be ready. It's the stories of when Phantom I think it was Phantom it was either Phantom on the Harbour or Phantom the tour. It's the stories of when Phantom I think it was Phantom it was either Phantom on the Harbour or Phantom the two auditioned and all these people oh Phantom's coming, can you teach me to sing high E? No, your audition's in three weeks. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 1:

Oh gosh, in terms of your book and having material ready. I know when you gave a beautiful lecture or a masterclass for us when we were doing Poppins, you spoke a lot about what to have in your book and a big highlight that I wanted to bring out I hope it's all right sharing is to do with self-tapes Having some key, and maybe you can elaborate on this having material all ready to go, and maybe you can elaborate on this having material already to go. I think there's a misconception that every time a new audition comes up, a lot of performers even myself we go and try and find a brand new song, whereas you could have a set of songs that actually work for multiple different genres that you could potentially use for years. Do you want to talk a bit more on that? Yeah, so I think your audition book.

Speaker 2:

You want to think of it as a catalog for your brand, because everyone's unique and you, taylor Scanlon, might be West Elm, and so I can flip through the West Elm catalog and see everything, everything that you do. And then someone else might be Country Road, and I can flip through that and see what they can do. So when an audition comes, why do you need to find a completely brand new song? Because something in you may have changed. Your audition book has to represent who you are now, what you can do now, not what you did five years ago, and not what you're working on.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

But it's what you do now. If an audition comes along in a year, you may have added some new strings to your bow and think, oh, I've actually got a hole here. I need to make sure I've got something for that, but really your brand's not going to change that much, yeah, that much, yeah. So if you're auditioning for a whole host of like Dear Evan Hansen, back to the Future, all those sort of shows in that contemporary music, theatre, pop, rock, world yes, the same song should be able to get you through, because you're not going to be looked at for the dad in Dear Evan Hansen in one show and then for a kid in Back to the Future yes. So therefore, you just need a song like that to get you through, and I think everyone's book will be different in terms of the volume. Some people will have a lot of different things they can do. Some people might be a little bit more specific or niche, but you want to make sure that you have a golden era ballad or a golden era style ballad, something you're always going to need to sing, something lyrical, yes, to have a golden era ballad, I think it's worth having something pre-1975-ish uptempo for a contrast, and that could be an early broadway gershwin porter type of thing. It could be a golden era and uptempo. It could be a post golden era candor and ev jury herman style show I think we could do in season two. And then I think everyone needs to have something that represents current broadway.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, what's on broadway now in the last five, ten years, excluding jukebox musicals and revivals, so stuff that was written for the stage. Yeah, um, in the last five to ten years. I think it's worth having something from the 80s or 90s style of Broadway musical. Everyone needs pop as well now. So make sure you have something current pop rock that represents what's being written now, and then something pre-2000 that you might love, the 80s, you might love the 70s, whatever you really connect with. And I think I know that's a lot.

Speaker 1:

I think that's six songs yeah but I think it's worth having self-tapes of all of them ready to go yeah because how good would that feel, to just have it all ready to go and then you're done that's the answer, as well as your book.

Speaker 2:

You've got your digital library and you can make it really cost effective as well if you take a friend and hire a piano player's time for an hour between the two of you, and then the great thing about that is you don't have to play. Filmmaker and performer yeah, because that's the other problem with self-tapes it's your. You wear so many hats.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

So if you have someone who can film it for you and you do two or three takes of each song, and that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And that's it, and you leave it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so good. It's been awesome having you on. I know we could speak for a lot longer and we've been chatting there's definitely going to be more of you to come with the dive and giving some more insights into auditions and stuff you to come with the dive and giving some more insights into auditions and stuff but is there any other advice or anything that you feel like we haven't covered that may benefit for aspiring musical theatre performers?

Speaker 2:

I think, just acknowledging the pressure a lot of people feel when auditions happen. Because when you look at America, there's I think I looked at this the other day think there's 40 Broadway theaters, so let's say half of them are musicals. That's 20 musicals on Broadway and there's over 20 musicals on tour, and that's not including off-Broadway workshops, readings like the stuff, encores, do everything else. There's so much there and I think the pressure, there's a lot more pressure here to be able to do everything, be everything to everyone, get every job, because I've only got five opportunities to audition this year. So I think it's remembering what you have to offer and being patient, because the right thing will come your way. You have to make sure you're ready, it will come your way. Yeah, to make sure you're ready, it will come your way. Yeah, it's a really it's a difficult industry here. And make sure that you invest in yourself.

Speaker 1:

As I said before, I think they're the most I feel like I can't say it enough invest in yourself and remember that we actually want to see you, yeah oh no, that's so true and I guess, with that limited, if you want to say limited opportunities that come and go, it's even more crucial that guess, with that limited, if you want to say limited opportunities that come and go, it's even more crucial that the time that we are spending when things aren't around, that are promoting yourself and really putting the continuing the work in, because a few months in between auditions you can evolve and change and learn so much about you and also just diving into not only what makes you tick but the enjoyment of it all. I found that's a lot of things happening. There's a lot of that happening now where, because there's pressure and there's not as many, I feel like there's so many shows coming to australia there are probably the busiest time it's ever been, which is great, yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

But doing things that as well light you up and take you out of the industry. I know you said go to football and stuff like that. Nearly every person that's come on the podcast has said that find love and other things, and I just think that ultimately helps depressurize the. If you're just focusing on getting into a musical and that's your whole entire life and there's nothing else, you it's just going to be such a it's like you're walking on eggshells, because if that doesn't happen and you have nothing, it's really hard to continue and it becomes something that's stressful instead of something that you enjoy.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and I listened to this podcast the other day as well, where, like you just said, they said that we all talk about the craft and the skill and the technique, but no one anymore talks about the love.

Speaker 1:

Yes, talk about the craft and the skill and the technique.

Speaker 2:

But no one anymore talks about the love. Yes, that ultimately we all do it because we love it, because it's too hard otherwise literally, oh gosh, it's been awesome having you on jeffrey.

Speaker 1:

I've just loved it. I've learned stuff as well as always, and I'm sure that the community is gonna be sending in lots of different things. And if anyone has any questions for jeffrey or myself, you can always email us at info at the divecomau, and anyone that's listening in you will definitely see be seeing jeffrey a little bit more on the dive, but more on that later on. And yeah, if anyone was to connect with you, jeffrey, what would you say?

Speaker 2:

the best way is to probably my instagram, which is my name.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, jeffrey castles boom and I'll put that in the show notes and everything. Amazing, amazing, fabulous.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much thank you so much for having me. It's been so great to be here yay bye, jeffrey, see you soon.