The Dive Podcast

33: How to Position Yourself for Leading Roles in Musical Theatre with Kimberley Hodgson

• Taylor Scanlan • Season 2 • Episode 33

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In this episode, We sit down AGAIN with Kim 🥰 an accomplished theater performer currently starring in Six the Musical.

Kim reflects on her journey from dream roles like Anita and Catherine to the high-energy demands of Six. She shares personal insights on overcoming challenges, maintaining vocal and physical health, and the importance of self-compassion in a demanding career.

Highlight: Kim discusses her recent roles' emotional and physical challenges, particularly in West Side Story and Six. She opens up about the tough decision to leave a dream role early due to exhaustion and how embracing self-kindness has been crucial to her performance growth.

What to expect:

  • Kim’s experience juggling intense roles and ✨maintaining her health✨
  • Insight into the rigorous demands of performing in Six
  • Tips on handling audition nerves and managing expectations
  • The importance of self-care and realistic goal-setting in a performing career

Here Are Your Next Steps 👇🏻

Step One: 📝Get your FREE Audition Prep Workbook

Step Two: 🫂 Join Free Facebook Support Group

Step Three: 👀 Check out the Momentum Program for aspiring MT performers looking to become professional

Step Four: 🎥 Watch our MOST DOWNLOADED Podcast Episode with Luca Dinardo

Speaker 1:

Joining us today on the Dive Podcast we have the incredibly talented Kim Hodgson, who is currently captivating audiences as Catherine of Aragon in the global phenomenon Six, the Musical. Kim's journey to this lead role has been nothing short of inspiring and today she's here to share it all with us. In this episode, we're going to be diving deep into Kim's path, from her early days in the industry to becoming a leading lady on some of the biggest stages in Australia. We'll talk about the importance of putting yourself first, nurturing that inner child within us all, and how all of these principles have guided her through every challenge and show, no matter how daunting the odds were. Kim also opens up with us about the realities of auditioning for major musical productions and offers invaluable advice for the next generation of performers. So whether you're gearing up for your first big audition or you're just looking to get the most out of every opportunity, this episode is for you. Let's dive in Well. Welcome back to the podcast. You're actually the first person to be brought back into the dive podcast, kimmy.

Speaker 1:

Yay, how exciting oh it's awesome and we were just talking that your last episode that we had was actually the second episode of theive podcast all the way back in January and it still rated the top five most downloaded episode in the Dive history, which is just wild to me, that is so wild to me.

Speaker 2:

How exciting.

Speaker 1:

So of course we had to get you back on and you're currently in sixth the musical in Melbourne at the time of recording this and I'm going to be going into that and a bit about your journey and I'm just so excited to have you on.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, tau, thanks for having me again.

Speaker 1:

So, kim, can you just take us through your journey again from starting musical theatre to now leading this role of Catherine of Aragon in Sixth Musical, and what were some of the key moments or decisions that kind of helped you position yourself in a way to now be getting these lead roles?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I touched on this on our on the last time we had a chat, but when I was at university, university in Brisbane, at the Conservatorium of Music. I graduated from there 11 years ago and I know I just I can't understand how time has gone so quickly.

Speaker 2:

It's so wild, and I guess since then, the first, probably nine years of my career I have spent being an understudy, and so since graduating I have probably spent the last nine years of my career being an understudy, and so what that means is that I have been in the ensemble and also covering lead roles, which is a really challenging job.

Speaker 2:

I did not book my own role in a big commercial mainstream touring musical until I did Miss Saigon, which was last year, and so I guess it's taken a really long time for me to transition from being a cover in the ensemble to booking a lead role. And I think, to go back to the question, I think where I am now playing Aragon in Six has been a result of the things that have just happened just leading up to it, and so when people, I guess, saw me in Miss Saigon playing the role of Gigi, from there I then played Anita in West Side to now playing Catherine of Argon in Six, I think have all kind of just been a consequence of each other and I think the universe has aligned itself in a way that it has all just kind of.

Speaker 1:

Directioned itself in that direction.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that was a very long-winded answer, but I think just to in a little capsule. I guess, where I am now has all been truly dependent on these last little things that have just happened to me in my later part of my career currently, which is something that has been kind of completely out of my control well, it's been awesome watching you just shine and you're such a hilarious individual but also so talented.

Speaker 1:

And I kind of asked that question because a lot of us and a lot of the viewers that watch and listen to the podcast, are aspiring musical theatre performers. But we also have performers in the industry and we can sometimes feel when we're in the industry, or even leading up to getting in, that we're either typecasts or we're just the dancer or just these labels and things that we put on ourselves. So did you find I mean in your kind of story that it was more of a natural progression that you went into being a lead? Were you always wanting to be a lead from the start?

Speaker 2:

you always wanting to be a lead from the start, I have felt pretty passionately about leading a company and telling a story. I have always felt very, very passionate about that, and it's a funny thing because, I think, objectively, you look at it and you're like, well, that doesn't that take a bit of ego, or doesn't that? I don't know, there's something, there's this, maybe a stigma attached to that. But I feel, personally, as an artist, I've always felt very strongly about leading a company and telling a story, and I found that the way that my career has kind of played out, I did feel like I mean, nine or ten years is a long time to be feeling like you've been pigeonholed in, pigeonholed into a particular track type, I guess, and so it does make you question whether you are good enough right and I guess that has been the ongoing challenge and battle for me mentally is that I have had to try and convince myself that I am good enough to do that, and that's hard.

Speaker 2:

That's a long time. I mean it's not a long time in the scheme of like how many years people work industry, but nine, ten years is a really long time to be working so hard at a particular thing to not maybe pass the opportunity within that time. It's a long time to be questioning your capabilities and your skills and I guess in the end, really now that I'm here, it kind of doesn't really have to do anything with me and it has a lot to do with timing and when things are right they will happen, that's it.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I know maybe, guests, in that progression you always wanted to be a lead and starting the ensemble, because with these beautiful, wonderful bigger goals that we aspire to, there is that progression that we need to understand and take acknowledgement over.

Speaker 1:

And I guess through that time, when you were in the ensemble and then you were covering and getting those little opportunities to then go on, you were talking about reassuring yourself.

Speaker 1:

It was probably in those moments that when you did go on for that lead, you were like, oh, that's right, this is where I was wanting to be. But I guess that's a really cool way to actually, even if people are looking to become a lead, that if you don't get a lead straight away, being an ensemble covering, getting a taste for it, because sometimes what we actually want, we don't actually know what it's like until we're there. And I know it could have maybe I know it didn't happen for you, but maybe for some other people they I know, for an example, people that want to be a swing they go and be a swing and very quickly realize that oh, it's not actually what they thought it was going to be. And but I guess for you did you have that experience going in and then going on for the lead and going actually. Yes, this is definitely something I want to continue.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I think. I mean I would have had it no other way than to have had the jobs that I've had, because I've learned so much, and I think all of that learning leading up to this point has really made a huge difference, I think, in the type of performer that I am and the way that, I, guess, hold myself as a performer. And the thing is that, yes, I had so many of those moments in the ensemble and you're working so hard, you work so hard as an ensemble member and you play such an important part in adding the little details to the story that's been told. And then, on the side of that, you work so many hours to try and make sure that you're ready to go on and to lead the company in a way that you're going to be proud of and that the company are going to be happy with. And when you finally get to do that role and you finally get to celebrate the hard work that you have done for yourself and that everyone has, like kind of championed you to get to that point, it is truly eye-opening and, yes, it will either solidify what you know and truly feel is right for you and what you want to do and what you're passionate about and what you want to strive towards. And two, it can really make you think differently.

Speaker 2:

I actually don't know if this is me. There is a huge responsibility. I guess it really does depend on the type of roles that you're covering, but the job that you have to do as a lead is also very difficult, and the thing is the exciting thing as a cover is you do it. Maybe you never get to do it which has happened to me before but then you do get to do it every so often, and so it's very exciting. You were doing the show with a whole lot of adrenaline and beautiful like feelings in your body that you're just never experienced, and then to be able to do that and try and replicate that magic and it's not even replicating the magic, because really that's what live theater is you just do it, and it's different every night. But to consistently provide audiences with a magical performance in a role is a very tough job, and so that is also another thing that I'm learning is that, as much as I have absolutely strived and wanted to do this, it is challenging in the way that I do it every single night.

Speaker 1:

Yes, there's no okay. We're going on for a cover once a week.

Speaker 2:

This is the full gig.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's amazing because now you've had that experience of Gigi and Catherine and Anita and really stepping into that, looking at them all as an individual character. There's some pretty tough roles, like to not only take on board but to do eight shows a week. How has that influenced your maybe perspective now as a performer and as a lead, and has your kind of routine changed in the way that you're looking after yourself?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's really interesting because, although they have been like my first roles that I have been, that I've booked, I have learned so much about myself that, honestly, I never thought that I would ever have to learn. And I'm almost 32 and I've been doing this forever and I have learned the most about myself probably in the past year and a half, two years, and most of that has been because of the jobs that I've booked. I think, firstly, when I did Miss Saigon, that was a dream role and a dream show and I had given all of my heart and my spirit to that show, to the point where I left the contract early because it got to a point where I actually had nothing left to give. I felt so passionately about the show and I gave so much of myself that I had very little left to give and I said to myself I respect the show and the story so much that I can't not give it what I want to give it, and so, because I can't do that, I have to step away, which is so wild to me to think that I would ever come to a decision like that when it's the first role that I've ever booked. It's a dream show, it's a dream role and I didn't have anything booked. After that I didn't have anything, and I think that there's also this like pressure that you put on yourself is to I need to book another one, I need to prove myself, I need to back it up, I need to make sure that it wasn't a fluke, I need to make sure that it wasn't just coincidental, and so that was a really hard decision that I think I had to make to realize what it was that I was actually doing and what was required of to be able to do things that I'm really passionate about and give whatever I could give. So that was a huge learning experience for me.

Speaker 2:

Not long after that, after I made that decision that I wasn't going to move forward with that contract, west Side Story happened, and I think I remember talking to you about this while I was auditioning for this role. I honestly did not think that was a role that I could be doing in my 30s on a rake stage, and I was in a frenzy trying to train, to ready myself to do another dream role in a show that I absolutely loved. I did it five years previous to joining the latest production and I covered the role and I said I'm never going to be able to do this again Like I'm literally. I'm in my thirties. I can't be doing this show again in another five years. I don't think my body will be able to do it again in another five years. I don't think my body will be able to do it.

Speaker 2:

And I had a lot of doubt going into that room and I had a lot of fear and I ended up saying to myself you know what? I've actually got nothing to lose. I need to go in there for myself and just do it. When they said we actually want you to do the job, I thought well, I'm going to have to figure out how I can do this. Thankfully, I was doing a six show week they were single shows and it was a short season and I thought you know what I can do this?

Speaker 2:

I trained a lot. I trained really hard and I had to learn how to speak to my body very kindly, because it was doing things that I never thought that it would be able to do at the age that I am, and it was a really challenging experience in the way that I just had to be so kind and so grateful that my body was able to do this multiple times a week and it was something that I didn't think I would be capable of doing, and I did get injured, and I was injured for like almost the whole way through the season, but I somehow I don't know how I somehow managed to figure out ways to help my body, and that was hours of like conditioning, ice baths, rolling out, laying on the Shakti mat, but truly, I think the most beneficial thing was literally speaking to my body and saying that I'm actually okay because we're just going to tell this story only a couple more times and you're safe. I don't know how I did it, but we got through it.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of feeling safe and I recently would been teaching a lot of students and getting in the room and really noticing that since I don't want to bring up COVID, but since COVID I feel like there's a lot of us that are especially students that are scared to be more vulnerable and to put yourself out there is to really bring that fun back and really bringing yourself to a place where you can feel safe, because I feel like that's when you can produce your best work, especially since the pandemic that we had and it's just awesome that you've said that and the importance of it's not just the ice baths and the practical things, but a lot of the time and the things that even I'm learning right now is the free things are the most like powerful, our breath or the simple tool of mindset and getting on board with yourself and being literally talking to yourself and saying you know what, putting things into perspective like you just did Six shows.

Speaker 1:

It's all good, because we all have that inner child within us that is needing reassurance and one of the most beautiful things is that we can give it to ourselves and it's really the only assurance we're really looking for and that's just so beautiful that you were able to do that and continue and into a beautiful another role. How was that like from making that decision from Gigi I mean, you still did Gigi for such a wonderful time and long time, which was cool, but what was that like then getting that next stage of okay, now I'm going to be Anita? Was that that kind of affirmation or reassurance that you were looking for?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was a very full circle moment to have been gifted the opportunity of this like time, to be able to do that role, and I think that's also another thing that I learned that it's okay to step away from things and that something will come if it's meant to come. Because really, at that point I had no other job and I thought, you know what, maybe it's time for me to have a little break, maybe it's time to have more time for me. And I had a little break, like a tiny break between. But I thought you know what I would absolutely love to play Anita and to do it for such a short amount of time. I said after this I can have a break.

Speaker 2:

In the meantime I was auditioning for Six. Actually, it was the week before, it was the week before my one-on-one no, it was two days before my one-on-one rehearsals for the Anita choreography. I had my Six audition and I was a bit hesitant, to be honest, to audition for Six because I had seen it in the original Australian touring production and I thought, gosh, those girls work hard, they work really hard and that looks like a hard show. Energetically, physically, vocally. It looks like a hard show. And my mindset at that time, thinking okay, maybe it is time to have a break. And I said you know what? I remember auditioning for this show, roja, whenever it came the way back when, and I couldn't finish the auditions because I was doing Fangirls at the time, so I was only there for, I think, one or two days and I ended up auditioning for a couple of characters and I felt very comfortable doing the Aragon material. That was way back when. And I thought, you know what, maybe I'll just go in again and maybe this time I'll have a better idea of what I actually should look at before going in, because there's a lot of material and I would probably fit into maybe a number of different queens. I thought you know what, maybe I'll just give it a go. It's gonna be hard, but you know what I'm like. I'm a like theater girl, like through and through. This is like a pop show. I haven't done like poppy things since growing up. I was'm very like empty. I thought you know what, why not just do it? And I went in there and look, I don't know if I did the best that I could when I first sang, but I knew that the panel had seen me do Gigi, and had seen me play Anita, and I just thought I actually can only do the best that I can do and if they believe in me then maybe they will see me for something.

Speaker 2:

I ended up spending two days learning a whole lot of choreography, a whole lot of, and the choreography is amazing. It's so detailed, it's so fun, so fun, it's so fun. And I sang for a couple of the queens and did a couple of the monologues and thought I only had two days, because then I was into rehearsals for West Side and I couldn't complete the rest of it. So we had to smash out all of the material that we could, had to film it all. So it was in a really short amount of time and I'm thinking, oh well, I guess you just do what you've got to do and the way that things worked out, it's very funny.

Speaker 2:

Halfway through the season I ended up finding out that I booked Aragon and I thought I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that show. I thought I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that show. I honestly was like that is a hard show and I know I'm currently doing probably one of the hardest things that I've ever done. But I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that and I just thought what have I done? What have I done?

Speaker 2:

And learning the show was probably one of the hardest things I think I have ever done.

Speaker 2:

It is. They're so detailed and it is so wonderfully complicated and challenging in it's very like simple. It's simple, but it's not simple because it's really dense. The material is really dense and I thought I am lucky that I've learned how to speak kindly to myself, because I need to speak kindly to my brain, because I have not had to learn something as intricate as this for a very long time and I had a few meltdowns and I had to go back and be like, okay, I remember how to talk to myself kindly and to be patient with myself, because it's all well and good to be a perfectionist but unfortunately, when you are exhausted from full days of rehearsals and your brain's not quite keeping up that, it just takes time and so I'm now into the season and I'm having the best time. It's one of the funnest shows I've ever done. As hard as it is energetically. It is one of the most fun shows I've ever done with such a great group of people, really great group of people.

Speaker 1:

So wonderful and I mean I got to see it for opening night in Melbourne because it was so fun and it was awesome to see you out there and I mean gosh.

Speaker 1:

I mean, for anyone that doesn't know about Six, it's yeah, I'm just reading it from here it's a global phenomenon which has taken the world by storm. It's arrived in Melbourne. Currently, if you're here to come and see it, as it's captivating so many beautiful audiences and it's really cool because it actually I absolutely loved it myself because I got to see it for opening and, oh my gosh, there's no interval. You're on stage. For how long is it?

Speaker 2:

90 minutes, 80 89 yeah, something like that yeah, 80 something minutes.

Speaker 1:

It's full on, yeah and I really love this kind of progression that I'm seeing in your career and how really looking at your mindset and looking back on yourself and really looking after yourself and actually acknowledging when things are going to be tough, because sometimes we just push that to the side, right, we're like, oh no, we just whatever, don't acknowledge it. But I think there was so much power and correct me if I'm wrong from what I'm hearing is that there was a lot of power in acknowledging and going okay, this is tough, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but you know, by actually acknowledging it, you probably lowered the stakes for yourself in a way and actually gave yourself space to, yeah, go into each of those roles and are you actually? Do you feel like you're more proud of yourself that you? For each of those times that's happened, you've kind of come into it not feeling that you could do it, and then now it's something that is just so awesomely fulfilling.

Speaker 2:

I think in my entire time that I've been working in this industry, I've not been more proud of myself till now. I think I've overcome some of the hardest challenges mentally and physically, emotionally and to be able to look at what I'm doing and knowing how hard I had to really work at being patient with myself and being kind to myself. I'm all the more proud for where I'm at and what I'm doing because of it, because that's the hardest thing. You can train as hard as you want, you can do as many singing lessons and dancing lessons as you want, but there is nothing that will train you more than the practice of being kind to yourself. So, yeah, I'm so proud. I'm so proud I constantly give myself pats on the back because I'm like girl, you are doing this.

Speaker 2:

Remember when you were crying, like the other day, when you were like I can't do anything, I have no talent, and then you're like girl, you're doing this so dramatic, it's so dramatic, but it is. Yeah, it is. I mean, that's the fun of it. Really, you'd laugh or you cry, but I'm really proud of myself. I'm proud of you as well thanks, so six is obviously a very high energy show and requires a proud of you as well, thanks.

Speaker 1:

So Six is obviously a very, very high energy show and requires a lot of you. How do you maintain your vocal health, your physical health, especially under the pressure of performing in such a demanding environment for eight shows a week?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have figured out a nice little routine for myself. I started training actually before West Side Story and I've kind of tried to keep that up leading into it, and then whilst I was rehearsing I kept training. So physically I've really strived towards conditioning my body so that I'm really strong, especially with costumes and with the high energy like cardio, cardiovascular requirement of the show.

Speaker 1:

Our names and our fame and our faces.

Speaker 2:

We're all about the glories and the disgraces Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived. But just for you, tonight we're Divorced, beheaded, died From the show. I've tried to maintain my training so that I feel like when I'm doing my job I don't feel as exhausted. But in saying that it means there's a whole lot more exertion of energy. So I'm eating so much more, I'm sleeping so much more. I nap, I, I power nap. I was power napping at rehearsals. I'd take myself at lunchtime. After I had lunch with the group, I would take myself to the rehearsal room and nap. I nap every day. I'm steaming, I'm doing all the vocal health stuff. I'm trying to just be so conscious of allocating time in my day for myself just to make sure that I have enough to give and in order to be able to do that, even though it's a minutes of my day, sometimes it is hours of my day preparing myself, make sure that I'm okay and that I'm good to go.

Speaker 1:

So, it takes time.

Speaker 1:

So much power in that? Because I think a lot especially students, aspiring students they want to hustle like, they just want to go, go. And we learn through the early years that if we don't listen to our bodies, it will tell us for sure. And that I think as well, not only stepping into being a lead, but it's really that shift from being a student to a professional, when you really put your job first or maybe even your job second, in the way that you put yourself first and seeing how that's played out of your career and how rewarding that has been, is really inspiring.

Speaker 2:

That's very kind. Yeah, it's not easy, is it no?

Speaker 1:

So I know, sometimes even I say to myself like, why am I doing this? For example, I'm such a morning person. I think we were talking. We went for coffee not that long ago about how I'm such a morning person and now I get to shows and it's interval and if I'm not on I'm like nodding to sleep. I mean, you couldn't do that in six. It's hilarious what this industry does to us. My gosh.

Speaker 2:

I know it's hard to keep up. It's hard to keep up, but you know what? Sleep is a huge thing. I feel like sleep naps, power naps, meditations, anything to get some sort of rest, is a huge benefit. I think, to keeping up with the demand absolutely so.

Speaker 1:

Let's just take a step back for a second and I want to talk about auditions because a lot of students on here they want to know everything. They want to second. And I want to talk about auditions because a lot of students on here they want to know everything. They want to know what I need to expect and how can I best show myself, how can I stand out, All that stuff. But I would love to know if you have any guidance on to give to a student that is going in maybe for the first time for a big major musical audition. The nerves are sitting in, they're not sure what's going to happen. What advice would you give to this new generation that's coming through?

Speaker 2:

I think it's important not to put unrealistic expectations on yourself. I think it's important to be realistic of potential outcomes so that you're not feeling devastated afterwards or this might actually be the moment that you get the job too. So I think, with those two things, I think it's important for you to go in knowing that you've done the work, that you are worthy of the time, to show the work that you've done and to walk away from it knowing that you've done everything that you could, you've put the work in and that, regardless of the result of the result, it actually doesn't matter because you're so worthy, regardless of the decision that's being made at the end of the day. And I think it's really important that, as long as you go in there with the mindset of I have something to show you, I have something that I've been working on. You've given me a time to show that. So I'm going to take the space and I'm going to take the time that you've allocated to me to show you what I can do.

Speaker 2:

And I think it's really hard. It's really hard in like high-pressure situations and environments like an audition, to get overwhelmed with the amount of people that are there the producers, the directors, the content that you're learning. I know I get very overwhelmed when I go into a dance school because I have terrible pickup skills and I get. I get terrified of what people think of me because I am a working performer and I can't pick up simple things, because I get overwhelmed and that is something that, honestly, I've done how many jobs and I still have that fear. So to reassure you that it might not get easier, but what can change is your mindset and just relieving yourself of any unnecessary pressure and expectation that it doesn't. It's not serving what you're doing. And if you can separate that, then you will at least set yourself up for some sort of success. And that doesn't mean booking a job. That means going in there and doing a good job.

Speaker 1:

Great, fantastic. Oh, it's so awesome. I've loved speaking to you. I feel like we've just gone down memory lane and also just seeing all the amount, I think it's really beautiful. I mean, we always get so many beautiful messages on this podcast as we were all in the same boat at the end of the day and I feel, as much as we can kind of break the barrier between professionals and students we were all students once and it's so awesome to hear your vulnerability and even your guidance of stuff that you're going through today, because I feel like when you are a student and you're you, we just put all about these professionals in such a high category. But we are all, we've all got our own things and it's just. It's awesome, and I know that the community is going to get a lot out of our discussion today good yay well, if you want to catch Kim, you've got to go and check out Six the musical.

Speaker 1:

You've got to go and check out Sixth the Musical. You've got to go check her out. She is currently in Melbourne from the time of filming at the Comedy Theatre until October 20th. Then they're heading over to the Theatre Royale in Sydney from the 25th of October and then heading to Brisbane from the 2nd of January 2025. You can also check out all the tickets on 6themusicalcomau. Thank you so much, kim. It's been awesome chatting with you and I can't wait to catch up with you again. It's just been awesome connecting and, yeah, thanks.

Speaker 2:

Thanks Tim. Thanks for having me Bye.