#8 Winemaker Ep#1 - Vibe Cellars Winemaker Erik Cooper! Ode to Wine and a Winning Work Ethic

Vibe Cellars www.vibecellars.com
Instragram: @vibe_cellars

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Ever chuckled over your dad's endearing mispronunciations or caught yourself reminiscing about the early days of your alcohol exploration? Then you're in for a treat, as Erik Cooper, the winemaking maestro behind Vibe Cellars, joins us to uncork tales of vino, vibrancy, and the vintage soundtracks of our lives. It's a conversation that meanders from the terracotta notes of Italian reds to the sparkling emergence of English vineyards, all while championing personal preference as the ultimate sommelier. 

Pull up a chair and let's traverse the vine-lined path from bartending to winemaking, where hands-on experience is our compass and relationships are the map to hidden treasures. This chat isn't just about the grapes or the glory; it's a heartfelt journey through the practicalities of vineyard management and the transformative power of mentorship. The behind-the-scenes of Erik's venture into the world of winemaking is as refreshing as a crisp Chardonnay on a summer's day, with anecdotes that are sure to resonate with anyone who's ever dreamed of crafting their own legacy.

Wrapping up, we toast to the community spirit of winemaking and share insider knowledge on how to turn passionate graft into a thriving wine label. Whether you're a seasoned connoisseur or a curious newcomer, our conversation is a testament to the tenacity required to steer your dreams through the rich terroir of the wine industry. So, fill your glass with your favorite blend, settle in, and savor the stories and wisdom from two aficionados who've poured their hearts into the bottles we love. Cheers!

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:16

All right, welcome everybody. Welcome back to the Bong Pod. I am your host, ian King, aka Wine Wonder Boy, as some people call me, because Jazzy is not here today, unfortunately. She has her little EMT course that she's doing. Sorry, not little, it's a big EMT course. It requires a lot of studying. So all good thoughts and respect to her, but we have an awesome guest right now. It's actually our first ever winemaker episode. Wow, really.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Yeah, I didn't realize that. The first one.

Speaker 2: 0:51

So I'm very excited right now? No way, but we have an awesome person here. He's a friend of mine. He started his own label pretty organically and we're going to go into that. He's a winemaker owner, co-owner of your label.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Yep Co or owner Co With my father and my brother. Okay, cool, yeah, and we'll get into that too.

Speaker 2: 1:12

So co-owner of the label, creator, yep Winemaker extraordinaire Eric Cooper, in the building I'm here, people Get ready.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Here we are. Here we are, here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Eric Cooper is a winemaker and co-owner of Vibe Sellers. Yes, and let me tell you right now, if you're not watching the video, it's a Vibe. It is a true Vibe in here.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Well, that was kind of the idea with the name. Yeah, Like working in the wine industry and also like in the restaurant industry before was there's nothing that I do not like. Least about wine is the pretentiousness about it. So like when I was working in the winery and like you talked to people out Viognier and Viogonier it's like Viognier.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Viogonier was my favorite word Viogonier. I love that this guy owned it too. I used to say Viogner, yeah, Viogner, but this guy was like I'll take a Viogonier. I was like you can have that brother, you can have that. He said it with no qualms, everybody else would be like.

Speaker 1: 2:11

I want the one that starts with a V.

Speaker 2: 2:13

Yeah, I fucking love that.

Speaker 1: 2:15

I know, and it's like when, and then like Chateau Lephélapont and like Chateau this, chateau that, or you know other wineries that are harder to pronounce, and wine is pretentious in a way and I don't like that. I was a bartender previously in my earlier life and I think it should be approachable. And why is wine not approachable like every other spirit?

Speaker 1: 2:39

And that's where wine industry is losing. A lot of market share is from people the younger generation, obviously, there's ready to drink cocktails. There's all these things that are eating up the market share of wine. So why not have a wine that's approachable and not pretentious, but also a name that's not hard to pronounce?

Speaker 2: 2:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:58

So that was one of those things going into. It was let's have a name that's easy to say. That has to do with music, hanging out with friends and enjoying yourself, rather than you know some.

Speaker 2: 3:06

I love that yeah. That's great and that's kind of why we started this kind of podcast that we did. We have listened to so many wine podcasts over the years of our journey just being in the industry and whatnot, and it's great. They're great education tools, but some of them are so pretentious and also just like boring.

Speaker 2: 3:26

And so we wanted to create one that is not pretentious, for sure, and that, can you know, give people an avenue, a way into learning something about wine, and that's a whole thing like you want people to come into.

Speaker 1: 3:38

This wine should be enjoyed, and if it tastes good to you and you want to spend the money on it, then that's all. It is your consumer of any other products. So it doesn't matter what somebody should, what you should like, somebody tells you you should like Cabernet Sauvignon, or you should like Cab Franck, or you should like, you know uh, vionnier or Riesling, and it's like if that agrees with your palate, then buy it, drink it, cause that's what it's just like drinking a vodka soda or a gin and tonic. I hate gin.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Personally.

Speaker 1: 4:06

I never drink. I love gin. It tastes like I can't do vodka?

Speaker 2: 4:09

It tastes like pinealca. Yeah, it's a juniper, exactly.

Speaker 1: 4:14

And all that. It just never agreed with me. So that's the whole thing is like. It is your palate. That's all that matters in wine. Do you like it, do you not? Would you spend money on it?

Speaker 2: 4:22

Yeah. So that's kind of where we came from with this idea. Nice, yeah, I love that. Yeah, dude, my beginnings with gin was like it's not going to be a tangent, but like it was in high school because I listened to songs. Gin and juice oh, yeah, I know. And I listened to rap music. I tried what they were trying and doing Exactly and do it. Yeah, I wasn't doing coke, but like I was doing no Henny and coke oh. Henny and Coca-Cola.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Yeah, and it's college man. I don't do that anymore. I'm too old for that, henny, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:52

And so I would do, like the gin and juice, you know, the gin with the orange juice.

Speaker 1: 4:55

And.

Speaker 2: 4:55

I was like this is hitting, this is hitting.

Speaker 1: 4:58

But anyways, now we're in the wine game. I was thinking the Incredible Hulk, that was a fun one, too Hypnotic and Henny, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:05

I've done that.

Speaker 1: 5:05

Incredible Hulk and you're like what is that? It turns green, like that is pretty cool and it tastes like Dear God no.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Yeah, but it looks cool. Exactly, it does.

Speaker 1: 5:15

Sometimes it's cool to have a blue drink, pink drink, I don't care what I drink, as long as I have some alcohol on it.

Speaker 2: 5:20

There you go, unless it's gin. Yeah, don't hit him with the gin, baby. No, no, no, no, no gin. Here there's a little bit of gin, but yeah, now we're in the wine scene, man, so tell me about this wine. You brought a wine.

Speaker 1: 5:35

This, jameli. Yeah, it's hard to see right now.

Speaker 2: 5:38

It's a Super Tuscan blend.

Speaker 1: 5:40

It is a Super Tuscan blend, so Jameli means twin in Italian. I'm an identical twin, so it's me and my twin brother and then my dad who own this winery and then I make the wines. Michael lives on the west side of the mountains, from where we're on on the eastern Washington side.

Speaker 2: 5:56

So it was in the more Seattle area. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:59

And then we're over here and then my dad's on that side too, but he's over here a lot, but Jameli being an Italian heritage and got into wine because my father in our history was that his grandparents made wine at home for fun and he got involved with the Boeing Wine Club and then, as did I and my brother.

Speaker 1: 6:19

So this was the first red wine blend I really enjoyed. So early on I was like wow, like anything that was San Giavese or an Italian grape blend was very interesting to me and approachable because it is cherry, raspberry, all the brightness of red wines, yeah, Like the tar cherry.

Speaker 1: 6:38

For sure, but then the Cabin Merlot or whatever else you're going to blend in. I have Cabin Merlot in mind, but you can blend in a couple other varietals in there if you like. I haven't done that yet. Maybe in the future. I got some Cabin Franck this year which I might blend in. We'll see. I haven't done blending trials yet yeah. But yeah, very expressive and being an identical twin, that's kind of my identity in life. I don't have any other brothers and sisters. We're always the Cooper twins.

Speaker 2: 7:07

So, people.

Speaker 1: 7:08

It's hard to tell identical twins apart, so you're just the twins of the Cooper twins. So that was kind of the idea and that was part of the vibe Name came from. When we made wine at home for fun with my dad through Boeing Wine Club we called it Gemelli Sellers. And then I got into wine when I moved out here to Lake Shalane, washington, and really was thinking about ideas Like if I could do this, would I call it Gemelli Sellers and I was like no, it's hard to pronounce. People every day come in like they want the Gemelli or the.

Speaker 1: 7:38

Gemelli. It's like, well, it's Gemini Gemelli. But then it's like you tell them that and two minutes later it's like I'll take a bottle of the Gemelli and they're like okay, cool, that went right over your head, but it happened.

Speaker 2: 7:49

So, all right, guys, I'll be back in a minute because, if you enjoy this podcast, I have some amazing news for you. Do you want more content from us? Extra episodes per week, video podcasts, discounts every time we drop some dope ass merch. Do you want your opinions, hot takes and topics to be covered on the podcast and be a producer on the show? That's right, we want your opinions, we want your personal hot takes. Join the Bung Pod Gibroni gang and get your voice heard on the show. Just head to patreoncom slash official Bung Pod and talk to us. The link is in the description. Now let's get back to the show. Oh, I mean, uh, dude, my dad is. I love my dad so much he is the worst at pronouncing things that are not English.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Um, and it cracks me up. It's like a little quirk that makes me laugh every time. Oh, yeah. I'll sit the gammeli and, uh, you should hear him try and say some like Asian dishes, just like entrees and stuff that's not like teriyaki, oh for sure.

Speaker 1: 8:55

We all know that. And sushi, but like shishimi, like no shishami, or yeah yeah he has.

Speaker 2: 9:01

No, what a lot of things are. It's hilarious to me and he can't pronounce.

Speaker 1: 9:05

He tries though he tries.

Speaker 2: 9:06

That's that old generation, you know. They're stuck in their ways and they're older.

Speaker 1: 9:10

I'm starting to get there myself.

Speaker 2: 9:12

There's that old man.

Speaker 1: 9:15

And just the grumpy old guy like, no, I'm really not that bad, yeah I swear.

Speaker 2: 9:19

My dad switched like he used to be A little grumpier, like growing up probably just stress Uh-huh, I haven't. You know that's a little shits. Oh, exactly just like how many, especially me, I was. I was a sarcastic asshole like.

Speaker 1: 9:32

Middle school. In high school I was a shitty kid. How many do you have any brothers? I have one brother.

Speaker 2: 9:38

He's three and a half years older than me.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Gotcha.

Speaker 2: 9:40

He lives down in california, in southern california. Okay um, but yeah, uh. So this is the one thing I've I noticed about, like, uh, sandio vese in particular. I mean, I love drinking keonty classicos Uh-huh, big fan of keonty classico and it is a lot lighter on the palette. So for a lot of people, I mean for a lot of people. It's actually like your uh table wine.

Speaker 1: 10:08

It's sort of thing, yeah, kind of like a pinot noir ish level, yeah like entry level ish red in a way just because it's not too big, it's not too bold exactly, but it's bright, it's cherry, it's tart too, especially keonty classico and it has that sort of uh terracotta gardening pot. Yeah, I can, for sure, and this does too.

Speaker 2: 10:27

Yeah which I just thought that was an italian thing, because most italian reds Kind of have that going for it oh, most heavily. Um, I'm not sure if it's because they don't clean their hoses, but I haven't been over there.

Speaker 1: 10:38

Oh, I went, but I didn't go to any wineries. When I was there, I was 22 and, yeah, drinking. I don't know what I was drinking rum and coke back then, who knows. Yeah yeah, in Italy, yeah, I remember having red wine and uh, it was just the table wine at. Uh Got chinko terra. My brother and I just got hammered. Yeah, I had right around the corner from the laundry mat and my dad came and we were like what are you guys doing?

Speaker 1: 11:01

We're like well, we're just sitting over here drinking red wine with these people we just met and it's like, oh okay, a little drink, and then it was the worst morning ever. Then we went and hiked like seven miles on the chinko terra, so uh, but I was 22. So I rallied through it. Yeah, totally yeah that's sick.

Speaker 2: 11:15

That's a fun experience it was amazing, I still have never been overseas man. I want to get over there. I want to go to France, to a whole wine thing, go to Italy.

Speaker 1: 11:22

Spain, yeah. So one thing I don't know Germany. Germany would be super cool. Went to Italy in 2002. So that was, yeah, 22 years ago.

Speaker 2: 11:31

I want to go to the uk too. There's a there's a wine bar in london that listens to our podcast, or at least they like a lot of things on our instagram. I don't know, but it'd be fun to go visit them and do like an interview with them for sure.

Speaker 1: 11:46

And I hear the bubbles out there and in it's starting up huge yeah starting to be the spot. There was a nice. There was three english people in here on last thursday. Oh yeah, and I was asking, I was like here you guys had grown a bunch of White bubble, like white grapes for bubbles, and they're like, oh yeah, like we do some good stuff out there, and they were in the older generation and they knew about it. They knew about it, Okay, yeah it was kind of fun to see.

Speaker 2: 12:09

Yeah, I know that Steven Spurrier planted his own grapes On his property before he passed, and they're all white grapes are sparkling and people were just laughing at him like you're gonna fucking plant.

Speaker 1: 12:22

Yeah, you know, do that here in.

Speaker 2: 12:25

England. You're like, they're like. No, like that belongs to France. It's like over, like whatever.

Speaker 1: 12:31

Yeah, for sure, I think I was a song, uh, gild song podcast. I was like I don't know like two or three years ago and I was talking about that and that was the only reason I knew about it. I was like really, well then, I've tried one. Yeah, there was a bottle shop in Tacoma washing that I tried. It was delicious.

Speaker 2: 12:48

Yeah, really good. Do you have any more bottle shops over on the eastern side of the mountains?

Speaker 1: 12:53

Do I know how many there are? Is that we asked her? No, we need more, I know. Especially where we're at Wenatchee, maybe one or two there are two, there's cave new ones.

Speaker 2: 13:02

Two there's cave noir. Okay that's probably my second time talking about them on a podcast. I do love them, though. That's great Um, and there's norwood norwood's going through some remodeling things right now I don't know what's going on over there, but they're making some changes and they've been closed for a little bit.

Speaker 1: 13:18

I've talked to them in the past when I was with the previous winery and then the winery I'm at now where I make these, produce these wines. So Talk to them about a year ago about doing a tasting out there and just never followed up. A whole salient out's a lot of work.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Yeah, so you use other facilities to make your wine.

Speaker 1: 13:37

I do so. I got started by uh, working at uh.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Well, I came, I got into Wine through my father, through bow and wine club and I was a bartender in Bellevue, washington and then wanted out of that industry and then got in the viticulture program through WSU Washington State University All online after, basically after work, a day's off going through that and I was like, well, it's college level farming. Like I'm a city slicker, I don't even know what a grapevine looks like. What if I moved out to Lake Shalane because my father had a condo out here? Uh, so that's uh. I kicked the idea around for like three months and I was like, well, you know what am I doing here? Like why don't I go do that?

Speaker 1: 14:16

No, it was probably more like two, but I was like, well, I could go spend a summer in Lake Shalane, washington, why would I not do that? Yeah and uh. So reached out to like nine wineries out here through email and like sent resumes and and only heard from one, which ended up where I worked, who had seven acres of their own fruit the state vineyards, villonier, saran Mall back, and then on another property next door was Savion Blanc and more mall back, and so I came out and worked with them and, uh, I was just fell in love with the industry and this area of course.

Speaker 2: 14:48

Yeah, and how do you not yeah?

Speaker 1: 14:50

so uh. Then I was like, wow, like they closed during the winter, so they're open from spring through, let's say, fall, right over Harvest, then close up. And so I would split my time like seven months here, five back on the West side, and then would come back come March-ish. So it was the best way to learn, because I'm a hands-on learner. I can't read it in a book and then online figuring out like I don't know what we're talking about here. What's a shoot, what's a cordon, what's a trunk, what's a trellis system like VSP versus this trellis-seam system?

Speaker 1: 15:25

And so that was the best part was seeing it and being like then talking to the owner at the time too, I was like so like we're going over like soil probes, do you have any in the vineyard? He's like, absolutely not. Like, so like how do you know when to irrigate your vineyard? He's like, well, dig a hole and I look at the soil. I thought he was fucking with me. I was like, really. And he's like no, I really do. And then I look at the leaves so I can tell when they need some water. Then I irrigate. And I was like well, this is like far and this is 100 years or more of apples, cherries, nectarines, peaches, you name it. So it was pretty cool to learn from a true farmer who was supportive of what I was doing and trying to learn, so it was a great way to get started.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Yeah, that's so interesting too with farming like that. Like the vineyard manager where I work on my day job, sometimes he has me go down through the vines and just feel the leaves and he's like, do they feel cool to you or do they feel warm? And if they feel warm we need to turn on the irrigation. But if they feel cool, especially during really hot snaps that we have in the summertime. Yeah, he'll just be feeling the leaves Because it could be as hot as hell, but the leaves are cool, we're good.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Yeah, they're respirating, yeah, it's breathing out, and then so you know when they need to be fed the water and that sort of thing. But yeah, it was really interesting. So I asked them, like we were talking about production wise. So after working for them for two years, I was like, well, my dad's like why don't you ask him out doing an alternate proprietorship, which means I'm a winery, basically through the TTB in Washington State, the control board, as a winery within sight of a winery. And I asked them they said yes, I couldn't believe it. I was like you're kidding me, like, oh, so this is how I start. And then it was like, ok, get some fruit contracts, bring in some fruit, make some wine and did seven barrels of first year, so using all their equipment obviously, and then also, with my labor, slash some type of rent. But there's ways to do it. Obviously you can set up an alternate proprietorship and just pay a rental type of fee to produce your own wine, or you can like I was joking indentured servant.

Speaker 2: 17:49

So you're working in the taste room, you're working your ass off.

Speaker 1: 17:51

You're selling their wine, you're doing wholesale, you're doing all these things, but you're doing it on your days off and then after work too. So we bring in fruit for the winery, you work for, you produce their fruit, you process that fruit, you go through it and then afterwards you do yours. So you kind of get in where you fit in.

Speaker 2: 18:08

Yeah, so you kind of have an interesting position too, because this is one I haven't really seen before. Maybe it's because there's friendships, it's a big one, but mostly what I see is people being an assistant winemaker and then making their own label, and sometimes the winery will be like OK, well, you deserve more, a higher salary, bump, but you know what? We don't have that ability which is fair to say if they're honest, and then oh, what we could do is that you can make your own label and you can sell that and so that will let you do that here, so that will be added to your income kind of thing to help them out.

Speaker 1: 18:50

That's one of those things. The alternative proprietorship means that's one of those things to do. Sometimes it happens where if you don't have the AP set up, then you're technically. The winery could let you make a wine under their label, but they own your label or they own the wine you make. So we were separate from that. So the TTPC's is like we put some blue tape on the ground type thing. They're like OK, this is your wine production area, you alternate your days to do your production type thing, and that's how they see it. So it means that I own my wine, I own my label, I make my wines.

Speaker 1: 19:28

I ask questions, of course, because those are. You know you've got to ask. I don't know how to do half the stuff, so even it's you just learn so much from mentorship and when people are willing to help. But yeah, part of it, I work my ass off for people. So when people see you work your ass off for them, then they might be more susceptible to you doing something for yourself, and that's what happened. So I couldn't have been in a better position with more supportive people early on. And then now I produce these wines up the road here in Manson, washington, at Succession wines and I met Brock Lindsay through the viticulture course. We were in the same course together.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Oh, you were at the same time 2016,.

Speaker 1: 20:11

yeah, we met during that session and, uh, my twin brother was in. He took viticulture but he did not take immunology, so it was a two year program and Brock Lindsay was in it and he showed up. It was hilarious. The first they called it great camp.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Yeah, I took the same course the viticulture, yeah course through Wazir, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:35

What year were you?

Speaker 2: 20:35

there Great camps.

Speaker 1: 20:37

Yeah, those were fun.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Great camp. I did in 2020.

Speaker 1: 20:43

Okay, I think it was 16 through 18, and then I finished up inology in 2020, I think it was. Oh, I did 21. Okay, but yeah yeah, because you were around the COVID time. So did your great camps get canceled, or was that right before that they became optional?

Speaker 2: 21:00

Okay, Like, if you feel comfortable enough to come, then you can do it. But the thing with me I was living in Santa Barbara, California.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Oh gotcha, this time it was on the Central Coast, which is super fucking far. Yeah, we did.

Speaker 2: 21:12

We had to take a plane ride to Seattle that connected to like Pasco.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:17

Or Tri-Cities area.

Speaker 1: 21:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Because the great camp is in Prosser.

Speaker 1: 21:22

Yes, prosser, which is in the Iraq? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Iraq is it?

Speaker 1: 21:27

Iraq or Lyra.

Speaker 2: 21:28

The area no, like the facility that was the research center.

Speaker 1: 21:32

What do they call that? It's like an old, it's like going back in time. Is it Iraq?

Speaker 2: 21:35

or Lyraq, I think it's Iraq, I think you're right, it's been so long.

Speaker 1: 21:39

I mean it was 2018. Yeah, I don't remember what it's called.

Speaker 2: 21:42

But it's their main research facility for.

Speaker 1: 21:45

Built in like 1950.

Speaker 2: 21:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:47

So it was like going back in time to those classrooms. And it looks like it it does, but it was like cool, like classrooms radiated heat.

Speaker 2: 21:53

But they're putting all the money into the vineyard, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:56

And like research vineyard. So like we went out there one time and let's pull this block, like let's pull all the leaves off up to like the top two leaves and just see what happens. So Michelle Moyer Dr Moyer was like oh, I'll let you guys know, and she's like that didn't produce very well, but it was fun because you just do whatever you want type thing. But we met so many fun people and in your viticulture course, probably when we had people from Chile yeah, me too People from England we had a lot of Canadians. Virginia was well represented.

Speaker 2: 22:24

We had a bunch of people from Napa, which actually really surprised me Because they have UC Davis right there. Yeah, it's super fucking close, like why would you go?

Speaker 1: 22:33

I don't know, maybe to man's hire, and the price is a little bit higher too, I think.

Speaker 2: 22:37

But Washington State University has an amazing they have a lot of pre-rex though UC Davis has tons of pre-rex Chemistry based.

Speaker 1: 22:45

Yeah, chemistry based. And like no one wants to, I faked it until I made it.

Speaker 2: 22:49

Yeah, it comes to math and chemistry for me. I'm just a shit show. Help me too, so I'll do anything to get away with that.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Yeah, without doing that shit, Mind business calculator Exactly.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Yeah, dude, I skated by. In college I took a stats class. It was an entry stats class.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I never made it.

Speaker 2: 23:06

From a different college than the one I was going to. And they're like there's no pre-rex, but it counts for your college credit.

Speaker 1: 23:12

There we go.

Speaker 2: 23:13

And then I was supposed to take five no, four courses in order to get to the point where I could take the course out. Give me the college credit for math. And I was like this is me just doing like four semesters of math. No thank you, but I can do this in one shot. I'm just, I'm doing this.

Speaker 1: 23:31

Well, that's an easy way out. I like that. I always look for easy ways out.

Speaker 2: 23:34

Yeah, dude, I'm skating by in math like getting like D's and like low C's, but the stats course A+++ Well you know, good for you, some about stats.

Speaker 1: 23:45

That agrees with me. I never made it to that class. That's why I took. I went to ASU, arizona State University, and we used to joke that it was called the Barely in School Degree, bachelor of Interdisciplinary Studies.

Speaker 2: 23:59

Yeah, it's like two minors equaled.

Speaker 1: 24:02

It's like two minors equals Sun.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Devils. Yep, you know you mix it up sometimes.

Speaker 1: 24:05

Yeah, U of A is down in Tucson.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:08

The Wildcats.

Speaker 2: 24:09

My cousins went there.

Speaker 1: 24:11

That's like university. I didn't have the grades to go to that. I was a state school guy Same.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Yeah, I went to city college.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Instead I went to community college, for like almost four years before I transferred into ASU, so it was a good time down there yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Yeah, all right guys, let's take a break for a minute because if you enjoy this podcast, I have some amazing news for you. Do you want more content from us? Extra episodes per week, video podcasts, discounts every time we drop some dope ass merch. Do you want your opinions, hot takes and topics to be covered on the podcast and be a producer on the show? That's right, we want your opinions, we want your personal hot takes. Join the Bung Pod Gibroni gang and get your voice heard on the show. Just head to patreoncom slash official Bung Pod and talk to us. Link is in the description. Now let's get back to the show.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Happy to be back here, and that was the thing. Coming back was like went back into bartending, recession 08, moved back to Washington, fell back into bartending from college and then did that for a long time. I wanted to way out and that's how I got into wine. So wine is a kind of my way out. I would never have thought this is where I would end up and it's every day coming here to my own taster room and like I actually made this.

Speaker 2: 25:34

You like it.

Speaker 1: 25:35

Holy shit, really, holy fuck. You're actually going to buy a bottle Like, oh, you want to serve your wine, like, oh my God, are you serious? So it's one of those things. I'm a humble guy. I don't like egotistical people and I don't that's not me. But it is cool when people like it and it's always fun when they're like ew, ew, I don't like it, I don't like about them, like it's really sweet, like actually RS on that is quite low.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Yeah, it's not sweet at all. I don't, yeah, it's your palate. With the wine drinking community. I think it's so hard because their definitions are so much different than what is actually true when you come into like wine literature, if you will or our vernacular the things that we use, and most of it's science-based. So dry means no sugar.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Exactly Right, I know.

Speaker 2: 26:26

So dry means like it feels on your mouth.

Speaker 1: 26:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:30

Or sweetness, like it's not sweet as no RS, it just says very fruit forward.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 26:36

And there's high acid which gives you perceived sweetness.

Speaker 1: 26:38

And that's part of the thing with wine, which is it's hard, like, to develop your palate. So, and that's what people like I don't, I don't they'll read your tasting notes and like that's what in those? Those are adjectives we use to describe the wine that we thought would help guide you through it, but that doesn't mean you have to taste those things. Yeah, it's your own palate Exactly. And if you're not trained on, like what a black currant is, nobody. Well, what's a casise Like? I don't know, I think it's an east coast current, technically, or a European current they call Casice so. But I've gone to Met Metropolitan Market in Seattle area. That's always a fun one because you go out there in the spring and they've got like red, white and black currents and oh, I want to try a white current.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Yeah, I did their tannic.

Speaker 2: 27:23

Yeah, oh, really yeah. I grew up with red currents in my backyard. I did not so whenever I bring out like oh, it's like red current, you know it's like I know that shit like back in my hand. People were like where the fuck did you get that from? It's like a semi-childed yeah Well, you ever had a salmon berry.

Speaker 1: 27:39

Those always grew in Pacific Northwest, like in the woods and like oh yeah, yeah, jasmine brought it up, the last podcast, salmon berries, yeah, they're. They look like a salmon egg kind of that color.

Speaker 2: 27:49

They do, they really do.

Speaker 1: 27:50

And they're tasty and sweet, especially late August.

Speaker 2: 27:53

But yeah, that's the only time I had them. I mix up a brambleberry with a merian berry. I think they're pretty similar.

Speaker 1: 28:01

They're very similar.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Merian could be a more tart People say a bramble, when I looked it up during the podcast. I looked it up on my phone and it said that red currents can also be called brambleberries. So I guess they're the same berry, but I thought it was separate.

Speaker 1: 28:17

I thought bramble was like anything with a break, like they call it, a bramble bush.

Speaker 2: 28:21

But yeah, like a bushberry, like blackberry, yeah, blackberry.

Speaker 1: 28:26

I don't know if huckleberries have stickers on them.

Speaker 2: 28:30

I was called stickers sticker bush yeah, salmon berries yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:35

I think they have stickers on it, but it's been too long.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Yeah, I mean, I like this wine man, you do a really good job Like this does. Give me that terracotta clay pot thing which I look for in San Jovayze, Uh huh, sometimes when New World producers make it. New World for the people just means pretty much anything not conquered by the Roman Empire. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Winners, winners. We can thank the Romans for the grapes that we have, though they brought everything to France. Yeah, everywhere.

Speaker 2: 29:09

Yeah, they brought it everywhere Spain, france but so like New World, specifically like I'm talking, united States, a lot of San Gios I've had are just like I mean, they don't taste bad, they're just very fruit forward and not like the original.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:28

Like I'm just like ah, it's a bummer, but it's tough to replicate what they do there but at the same point.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, that is the thing, and sometimes you do new, new oak, too much extraction, yeah, and I feel like I've started to kind of nail it. In the first, the 2018 vintage of San Joe was really dark and big and almost too much, and the first couple of times I tasted bottle shops on it they were like, well, this isn't a San Giovese. I was like, well, okay.

Speaker 1: 30:00

No bottle shops. When I was trying to do yeah, when I was trying to do wholesale sales on it before I had a taste, I didn't have a taste room. I started in 18 vintage and I didn't have a taste room till 21. So the only avenue I had to sell was through wholesale.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:15

So, and I had already done wholesale for the wine I worked for before, so that was my only avenue to sell it. There's no retail space. I didn't have the ability to do a taste room because of my inventory was so low. So you have to figure out how, like after sitting in bottle for a year, it's like well, we've already paid for this, we've got a bunch of sunk costs, our investment in that. You have to start returning on that. So that's where it is fun to make wine, but it is a business. So how?

Speaker 2: 30:42

do you start?

Speaker 1: 30:43

recouping your investment costs on that. And also when, like that 18 vintage has been, then you have a 19 and barrel which you paid for which is my family, so I'm not going to stress my family out with it. It's like how the hell are we going to fucking sell this, cause we don't have a re, we don't have a tasting room, so like you're only having it as wholesale or farmers markets or tasting walks or this and that.

Speaker 2: 31:04

So that's the whole thing Going out there and shopping at people.

Speaker 1: 31:08

Exactly. Just walk in, get ready, told no, just walking like they're going to say yes. They always say no and then you're like, yes, holy shit, really Okay. How much do you want? Like three, like sweet? I'll sell you three bottles. Yeah, I'll sell you six, or I'll sell you half a case. It just that's the way it goes.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:25

But you go in with. I would always go in low expectations, cause it's how I am Expect low, high expectations Like whoa, this is a win. Yeah, but that's just. I'm a pessimist, so this glass is definitely almost empty. Yeah, I really try.

Speaker 2: 31:41

I really try and have a good um, a good mindset about stuff like that, where it's like, okay, I can expect, you know, like I've been working hard or like you know I'm a big person about manifesting things, which is like I also.

Speaker 1: 31:58

That's also something I want to talk to you about as well, like your mindset, going into opening up your own label and like I'm a big person and with manifesting things in life and working hard, yeah, um, but I'm also impatient and it's so hard to be that cause you have to be patient extremely with that kind of stuff, with that mindset, and yeah, I would, I would say like I'm a little opposite of what you are, like I'm very patient and not so much like manifesting, and so, like my father was the one who's driving me to do some of this was like you can do this, you can do an AP agreement, you can make your own wine.

Speaker 1: 32:37

I go, oh my God, like, really Like I'm a bartender, I'm a guy who works in the taste room, like I make wine. I've gone through the, I'm educated, I can do this, yeah, but like, holy shit, like, but I was older too. I was like, what the fuck am I going to do? Like, and I was one of those people who didn't know what the hell I want to do until I was 30, something late thirties, and now I'm 43 years old like doing this.

Speaker 2: 33:00

So you're 43.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:01

Danny, you look so fucking good.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Thanks, partner, you know it's to give me five more years. These crooks feet are coming in hardcore and the grays are coming everywhere. Like Harry ears.

Speaker 2: 33:13

I would say 35.

Speaker 1: 33:14

I'd like to say 33.

Speaker 2: 33:15

Yeah, I like to say 10. That's me right there. Oh, I see Cheers to that partner. There you go. I was one 33.

Speaker 1: 33:22

I know, I was once 33. It'll go fast, let me tell you.

Speaker 2: 33:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:28

But that's one of those things like I'm, I would say it's also like the mentality of who I was raised by and what. Like my mentality was not so much that it's like you look at sometimes the negative side of things more so than the positive. But you change your mindset over time and when you do realize that actually this is good wine, maybe I could do something with this. And it was a slow draw too. I was. I was a worker. I'm always a worker. I worked my ass off for people my entire life and it's like, holy shit, what have I worked as hard as I do for other people, as I do for myself?

Speaker 2: 34:02

For myself.

Speaker 1: 34:03

Yeah, so that's like. One of those things was for me was a mindset change. Like when you Bust your fucking ass for somebody else's dream, why don't you work that hard for your own? Yeah, so that's where I'm at now. It's like, why am I not working as hard as I can for my own dream? What, what I used to do for other people to make their businesses succeed, I Need to do that for myself. So it's a. It was a mind switch for me. So, and I'm there now and it's my family and it's my people and the people that work for me and like, help me out. I don't really have any employees, just friends who help because they, like, they appreciate me and what I'm doing. So, like that's the whole thing. You create a community, yeah, and so.

Speaker 2: 34:50

That's kind of huge, it's huge.

Speaker 1: 34:51

You're in the small town, I mean yeah just this little town. They know everything about you.

Speaker 2: 34:55

Yeah, I Know yeah, I mean, the wine community in general is very small, like even oh for sure worldwide. Everyone's, like you know, Couple degrees of separation from whoever right. Oh for sure.

Speaker 1: 35:11

Like that was so fun and now, here it's very supportive too.

Speaker 1: 35:14

I mean, that's the thing. If for listeners out there I don't know where we're at Lake Shalane, washington, like it's a what 40 ish wineries out here started in what 2000 was, when the AVA was developed, and then there was six wineries until like 2006 and then it kind of ballooned and now we're at 40 Winery tasting rooms, like I'm not technically I'm a winery, but I don't have a production facility, use other people's equipment, and that's a few of us out here do that that's honestly.

Speaker 2: 35:43

When you're Drawing a label organically, that's the fucking way to go. But it was without substantial final financial backing.

Speaker 1: 35:51

That's like a couple mill.

Speaker 2: 35:53

It's going into a production facility to make it.

Speaker 1: 35:57

Yeah, I mean you use their capital investment on their production facility. I mean a forklift when you start looking at, when you price it out like a forklift hoses, clamps, like just the little things, spray bottles, like yeah, all the stupid little things that you take for granted when you're a seller, like all those things cost money and they all add up but you got, and then you you make a red wine, a white wine, come to market way quicker.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Yeah obviously, but a stainless steel tank. And then, if you want to grow, where do you grow? Do you grow from this size to this size, this size, or? But your financial Responsibility at each spot is different when you're scaling up. So if you can use somebody else's capital investment to get where you want to get and then do something later, yeah, but it is a and you have to find the right people that will help you do that, like there's friends like.

Speaker 2: 36:46

Brock, and there's also, you know, friend. You could be friends, or you could be an acquaintance that wants to see people succeed, or the Wine in the area to grow more. That's the whole thing.

Speaker 1: 37:00

I want everybody's very supportive yeah, and that's been the best thing out here is like Working with different wineries.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Just a bottle, like go up and bottle it, one winery, when you need to run Two, two barrels through or four barrels through, you can go use somebody else's six bottles bottler and and go through that and like you can do, like you know, four pallets and you're like, oh my gosh, or two pallets which I did recently for a couple of white wines that I was holding for a while and there'd be no other way for me to do that without the support of this valley.

Speaker 1: 37:31

So that's what's great and it's all about community and relationship building. So of Course, this, this valley, is very supportive in lots of ways. But if you if you're out there listening you wanted to start your own thing, work your ass up for somebody and have a vision and then see how, if you can Ask them to do a AP agreement or some definitely an AP Custom crush is different, but AP then you own your label. So you never want to like say you're gonna do something under somebody else's label unless you want them to sell your wine that you created under their label.

Speaker 1: 38:09

So yeah it's just one of the due diligence. Yeah and so.

Speaker 2: 38:14

Yeah, like my. My boss always says like when he's when we have to buy equipment and he's always like you know, oh, anyone that manufactures this shit. They just put like for for winery use and add 10 grand. That's his ongoing joke and it's like pretty accurate, it really is, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:37

I try not to even look at the price of those things. It's terrifying. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, I just keep that in the back of the hand like, yeah, maybe that's in the future, we'll see.

Speaker 2: 38:50

This is how sales go, exactly like by wine people. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1: 38:59

It's like every year you go over the budget just like last night with my brother, my dad like, okay, we're doing pretty good. It's like, well, we got all this expenses coming up for bottling I mean glass alone, corks, labels, the tgb Getting a cola approval on labels, all those things and a couple new skews. So then we got to find colors for the label and all all the fun stuff. You know, it's like this is a slow time, like today, just topping barrels added us to the other day Mls done and I was like, oh well, once that's done, then it's like we'll check on the 22s, but then also like it's already mid January.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Yeah it'll be spring before we know it, yeah, and then busy season to yeah, god run into a stream, slash on top everything else. I don't have enough time. No, free time no but that's part of I mean not complaining. I've worked seven days a week for Basically last 20 years of my life, so, yeah, I'll sleep when I die.

Speaker 2: 39:58

Well, hey, man, thanks for coming on the pod, I appreciate it. Eric Cooper vibe sellers. Thank you guys for listening. Cheers, cheers, ian.

Speaker 1: 40:07

Thanks, man, yeah you.