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Ever been stumped by the price tags on restaurant wine lists? Chris Horn from Purple Cafe pulls up a chair with me to tackle the truth behind those numbers and how blind wine tasting could be the key to unlocking the real value in a bottle. We take a hard look at the influence of terroir in wine marketing and how biases can blur our perceptions. Chris, our director of liquids, spills the beans on how price points sway decisions and the sting of wine markups at eateries. Plus, we get real about the dusty three-tier system that's still bottlenecking wine distribution.
Raise your glass to the artful dance of winemaking, where we explore the line between a flaw and a feature in our favorite vines. Is it a Brettanomyces bloom or just a mistake? And who knew Cindy Crawford's mole could teach us about complexity in wine? We chat about the trusty cork, its modern upgrades, and the eco-friendly wave of Stelvin caps and Tetra Paks challenging tradition. Imagine a wine bar where the box is king – we do just that, contemplating how these innovations might shake up the way we sip and serve wine.
Nostalgia's on the menu as we reminisce about our first forays into the world of wine and the tunes that scored those heady days. From Dale's Tavern jams to international wine adventures, we weave tales of music, wine, and the neighbors who turned us on to new flavors and sounds. Through stories of Germany's vineyards to Tuscany's rolling hills, we celebrate the journey of our palates and playlists. So, whether you're a wine buff or a music aficionado, there's a seat at the table for you in this episode full of heart, humor, and a splash of the unexpected.
Join our Jabrone Gang! https://www.patreon.com/officialbungpod
Instagram: @officialbungpod
TikTok: @officialbungpod
BUNG POD Merch: www.bungpod.store
Exclusive Ad-Free Episodes:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2285287/subscribe
_____________________________________
Ever been stumped by the price tags on restaurant wine lists? Chris Horn from Purple Cafe pulls up a chair with me to tackle the truth behind those numbers and how blind wine tasting could be the key to unlocking the real value in a bottle. We take a hard look at the influence of terroir in wine marketing and how biases can blur our perceptions. Chris, our director of liquids, spills the beans on how price points sway decisions and the sting of wine markups at eateries. Plus, we get real about the dusty three-tier system that's still bottlenecking wine distribution.
Raise your glass to the artful dance of winemaking, where we explore the line between a flaw and a feature in our favorite vines. Is it a Brettanomyces bloom or just a mistake? And who knew Cindy Crawford's mole could teach us about complexity in wine? We chat about the trusty cork, its modern upgrades, and the eco-friendly wave of Stelvin caps and Tetra Paks challenging tradition. Imagine a wine bar where the box is king – we do just that, contemplating how these innovations might shake up the way we sip and serve wine.
Nostalgia's on the menu as we reminisce about our first forays into the world of wine and the tunes that scored those heady days. From Dale's Tavern jams to international wine adventures, we weave tales of music, wine, and the neighbors who turned us on to new flavors and sounds. Through stories of Germany's vineyards to Tuscany's rolling hills, we celebrate the journey of our palates and playlists. So, whether you're a wine buff or a music aficionado, there's a seat at the table for you in this episode full of heart, humor, and a splash of the unexpected.
Join our Jabrone Gang! https://www.patreon.com/officialbungpod
Instagram: @officialbungpod
TikTok: @officialbungpod
Jabroni gang. What up, guys? Thank you so much. Thank you so much for supporting us. If you listen to the episode, we got Chris Horn here from Purple Cafe. He is the director of liquids. Really awesome, dude. We were just talking about terroir, if you listen to the original episode, and so I haven't prepped him on some questions I'm gonna ask him, but oh, great.
Speaker 2:They're nothing crazy honestly so I've got nothing to hide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we were talking about terroir earlier and and marketing yeah a lot of the wine marketing, but kind of going in that same vein. Where are you at with the importance of blind tastings?
Speaker 2:Okay, I've done a lot of it, mm-hmm. I Think that, as a wine buyer, the only blind spot should be the price right, because I like that if you and so if I, when I'm tasting With people, if I've never tasted with them before, I'll warn them. Don't tell me how much this fucking costs.
Speaker 2:Yeah that won't fucking buy it because it's always gonna be more expensive than it should be. But when you are tasting a wine and you You're, you're putting it in contests with all those other say, siras from the Columbia Valley, and you can get that price in your brain, go fuck, if this thing is less than 21 bucks, I'm gonna buy a bunch of it. Yeah and then if they say it's 28, you're like okay.
Speaker 2:But if they say we got a deal, for we're trying to move some for 1399, you're like how much you got.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that real quick, just for the people that are not familiar with how wine buying works. Um, they're seeing me, they're hearing all these low prices. Like I can buy a bottle.
Speaker 2:The whole sale people. Okay, sorry to interrupt up. Yeah, there's nothing. People bitch about wine markups. How much did that fucking t-shirt you bought at Banana Republic for 35 bucks cost to be made like?
Speaker 1:rights it's. That's a great point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or that cocktail that you just paid 18 bucks for how much do you think that?
Speaker 2:Costs to be made or a fucking pint of beer. Yeah, like we're okay. But with wine, for some reason, people are always like I hate it when people in the fucking restaurant and they look in the wine list and they got the fucking wine searcher out and they're like, oh well, the retail on this is $28. You're charging me 56. Yeah, it's cuz we, we have to pay for this building and all the other things happening around you, and like you're not just putting you know bag and take it home and drinking.
Speaker 1:Yes, also our 3-tier system that we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which, yeah, don't get me started on that bullshit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a wine distribution people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are still dealing with laws written shortly after prohibition, so yeah. That's bonkers. Anyway, what was the question again?
Speaker 1:It was wine tasting oh.
Speaker 2:I. It is important when you're learning wine, I think, to be able to perceive things, understand tenant, understand acid. Yeah, that's those, those things that we talk about. That our body. It's really important, especially as a person in a restaurant, to understand, because that's that's the things you're gonna deal with when you're pairing food and wine. There's the things that come to mind first. It also is great if you try and like figure out like what is typical, what, what does cornus tastes like?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:So I think it's valuable, but I also think that the spirit of it sometimes is a little less generous, right? I fucking hate it when someone's like hey, what's this? Oh Christ, I know it's grosses kvaks, riesling from 2009. I don't fucking whatever. Yeah, because the parlor trick of it is it's again. I've done the thing where you've been. You're in an academic situation, right? I almost just fucking bragged man. I almost turned in that douchebag saying there was this one time when I called it a 97 insignia, fuck that guy, I was almost that guy though, like because it feels fucking rad when you nail it.
Speaker 1:Oh, it does, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You feel like, but it happens one out of every 50 times, not that often, yeah and I think that, again, that that academic side of wine also cuts off. Like you know, there's some, there's some great expressions of wine that Tasted blind. I don't know if you really, if you really understanding the, the, the spirit behind it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, my, my view on blind tasting has always been education, education, education. I'm here to learn and if I get it right, that means I am Absorbing this information correctly right. And I've been a part of a lot of blind tasting groups I've had. First it was just me and my friend and we watched the Psalm one Documentary and we were fresh into wine.
Speaker 1:They're just in a tasting room, right. And then we're like, okay, this is what we're gonna do every week. We're gonna blind each other. You bring two bottles, I'll bring two bottles, and then we have to drink them all here. Just take home what you want and then drink it throughout the week, or whatever, or in a couple days, and then well, that's just fine.
Speaker 1:That's fun and that's how we got started and then we started understanding so much more, just based on experience, because in Santa Barbara we had some wine shops had a lot of international wines and.
Speaker 1:So it could be anything that bring that he brings to your table. And then I was at a spot called Jaffers wine cellars in Santa Barbara making wine there and then there was a All everyone there was green, like super green, and I was like, okay, cool, well, let me share this passion with you and maybe you'll learn something. And so I brought them to the tasting stuff and then they didn't know shit about wine and they're like I don't know, it tastes like cherries or whatever. And then you know, fast forward, six months later they're getting. They're hitting him like not vintage, because we would do the whole vintage region great variety thing, and which is it's a fun Standard to try and shoot for, it's a good target, but you know you're not gonna hit the bulls eye every time like it's gonna be one out of like, if you're really good, one every 10 bottles or something like that, yeah, and but those bottles that you nail are Really specific.
Speaker 2:Yeah and and and touchstone bottles. Yes and that those are good to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes because you know the people, because you've been with them right.
Speaker 2:You know like oh yeah, you kind of know their budget is yeah.
Speaker 1:And so like there's this one, there's this one time that they're blinding me on stuff. And then I was like, okay, this is. I said the vintage, I was wrong on it, but it's a matter. And I was like I think this is a you know old world in his own area seems to be a blend, but honestly I I could taste the fruitiness from the granage, I could taste the earth from the Morved, the pepper from the sarah, and so like I think this is a a wrong blend. So I'm gonna say it's jigandas, because definitely not gonna be shouting up to pop because he can't afford that.
Speaker 1:And I was right, but at the same time that wasn't a full blind tasting. I knew the guy right.
Speaker 2:I mean it was, it was brown-backed so when I do tasting competitions for magazines like sip magazine or the Great Northwest Invitational, we're judging wines blind and I think that that context is Important. But then again, when you're judging, you're coming with everything that you know about wine. Yeah, and sometimes you're on a panel with people that have different filters and Maybe your idea of quality is different than their idea of quality. So I mean, yeah, how do I get on the Jag? I think that it's, it's the. The. The headspace of tasting blind is Is good, but you don't have to be completely blind to be able to get into that headspace and experience and extrapolate the information out of the glass. Yeah, but yeah, there's, there's some people that are really good at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean when I moved to Shalane like the tasting your bow is a part of. It was fun. It we'd bullshit a lot, talk shit to each other and it's fun and light-hearted, totally right, right. And when I did a Shalane thing, create a group there everyone was so fucking serious and Scared we were terrified.
Speaker 1:Well, and I had some seasoned winemakers there that have never blind tasted before, and so there's some ego there. They're like, oh, I know wine, but like, oh shit, wine tasting oh shit, this is new. I have to be humble, in the setting which I haven't known nothing about something in a long time, and so that was an interesting experience. Coming from like the fun, lighthearted bullshit to the more, everyone was more serious and I was trying to poke fun at people to you know lighten it up a little bit, to lighten it up and then some people really took offense to it and just like was, and they just recoiled.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, okay, maybe my intentions here weren't clear.
Speaker 2:There's so much intimidation in the world wine, though, like that's when the quarter masters first came to Seattle to do testing at the W Hotel back in February of 2002. There was a bunch of us that were going to go take the test.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we were wine people. Right, we were working at a restaurant and we were pulling corks for a living.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people dropped out last thing because, like what, if you take that test and not passed, then then your, your, your bona fides are fucking gone. So I think blind tasting kind of feels like that too, like if I can't call a wine today. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's that has enough. I mean it has doesn't really have a lot to do with winemaking. I mean it has to do with your palate. Well, a winemaker's tasting palates completely different than a sommelier's tasting palates I do love tasting with winemakers, because they know flaws better than I do. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy and I'm like I've not. I can tell me what that is. I've not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have tasted with Charlie. That makes he's a winemaker at Cardis here where we're recording right now. I didn't make that clear when we started the Patreon episode. And the co-owner of Cardis when I've. I taste with him very often and I learned something new every. He's so nerdy Like we just did an episode with him a couple episodes back and he is so curious and nerdy about everything having to do with making the wine. He can taste it and be like, um, yeah well, I just think they they did this too early or this too late, or maybe you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just like I don't know how you absolutely they do that.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between driving a car and building a car.
Speaker 1:Like people with cars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we drive them. Yeah, it's a. Yeah, I don't hit that. There's so much science in in the world of wine, like that. Yeah, I think that some people, the people that don't understand the science of wine, don't oftentimes make great wine, right? Um?
Speaker 1:yes, although, well, you can know the science and not have a palate, and then right, and you also make shitty wine because you don't know what faults are.
Speaker 2:But then again I, uh, I think a little flaw isn't bad.
Speaker 1:Right, that's an interesting conversation because there is the idea of, like some people think, like a little bit of Brett, add some complexity, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:Cindy Crawford's mole.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's without that mole. She's not Cindy Crawford.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But she's beautiful because that mole, and so I have had arguments with people that are smarter than me.
Speaker 1:That's a great example.
Speaker 2:That, uh, if there's Brett in the wine, they're like that's a flaw, brett's a flaw. But I'm like, no, yeah, but it's a beautiful flaw, it's delightful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, that's like that's a wine maker. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or oxidation.
Speaker 1:Saying that too.
Speaker 2:Uh, I think oxidation is great in a wine, sometimes enough of it, like a Chardonnay that has a little bit of oxidation, has that little bit of nuttiness is so great with certain food applications Right. Because, that that nuttiness bridges to things really nicely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it oxidation is an interesting one, because I do like the nuttiness, I know what you're saying. But then there's a line where it just becomes like bruised yeah, a lapel, really quick.
Speaker 2:There definitely is a I I. I have some bottles in the inventory that I'm saving for the next time I teach flawed wines, because they're oxidized and they're not pleasurable anymore.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:Um I wish I could know.
Speaker 1:I mean, everyone wishes us that drinks wine, I think. But like wish I knew when a wine was corked before I pulled the cork just for education purposes, cause there's so many times where, like I don't know what corked wine smells like, I'm like well, we usually have one at the restaurant. Yeah, well, cause we pull corks out of so many bottles Each night?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and corks have gotten better, but it still allows you way to plug up the neck of a bottle Like I. I think it's the technology that preceded the cork was an oily rag shoved in with a thumb, so I don't know why we have a problem. And yes, cork farming is a thing and like there's people affected if we stop using cork, I get all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But it's, it's, it's, it's dumb.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd rather imagine, if, imagine, if the thing that we, uh, we sealed our beers with, uh, created faults once every hundred bottles of beer. Be like fuck this thing, let's, let's use something else. Yeah, but yeah, they've done a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean cork technology has come so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a lot yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know about DM?
Speaker 2:corks. Okay yeah.
Speaker 1:I did um. Actually at the Shaland Carter's tasting room, DM came there, did a whole presentation. I was there for it.
Speaker 2:But I just want to so why? But why are we going on all these great lengths when you can just put a fucking Stelvin on that or a goddamn bottle cap or a tetrapacker whatever we put wine in it's. It's part of that, that aspirational fine wine marketing thing. It's like if it's not in a 750 bottle with uh, with a cork in it, I can't charge that much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're like well, I've had some great um leader bottles from Italy with a cork like with a screw cap on it. Yeah, no, it's you know that are red wines. No.
Speaker 2:Uh, uh. But again, because we have to sell wine, we have to adhere to the traditions so that we can have a larger audience. Cause I think maybe I might be a little bit of in being the minority as far as like being okay with a wine being in a fucking milk carton.
Speaker 1:Well, that's another trend I was actually going to talk to you about on the original episode. We didn't have time, for it Is pouches with the tap on it. Yeah, because what Toddless Creek? They did a three liter box with a bag, and then the walls did the same thing, and then Amos Rome, they just they're coming out with one in April, and so the three liter rose.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they'll sell the shit out of it.
Speaker 1:That's four bottles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why not? You know, and the amount of energy it takes to transport those bottles, or sorry, that box versus those bottles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, box or the pouch or whatever it is. It's, I think you're going to vote.
Speaker 2:I think it's going to be really easy to get those into people's refrigerators and homes. Yeah. It's going to be hard to get those in the restaurants, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because. Well, is it though? No, because is there a?
Speaker 2:I think that there's a legal thing. No, it has nothing to do with law. It has to do with people being like oh, you're pouring. You're charging me 12 bucks for that glass of wine You're pouring out of a box.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Who the fuck are you guys Like that?
Speaker 1:We keep the box in the fridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, it was white, but still like when we buy cooking wine it's in a fucking box and if we leave it on the floor too long I get nervous because people are walking by seeing fucking box wine in the restaurant, so I got, yeah, yeah. Rule number one box wine goes right in the kitchen.
Speaker 2:Don't let people see that shit, Because you know, I think that I I there's going to be somebody clever enough to open like a wine bar where it's just box wine and it's going to be the kind of wine bar where you're drinking out of maybe a red solo cup and everybody's got dogs and we're just hanging out Like, yeah, there's a. I could see the potential of that kind of wine bar where it feels more like a brewery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, more of like a brewery style. I totally get that, or do you? Um, how do you feel about glassware and presentation? Is it important to you kind of going off the red solo cup thing? Yeah, because to me, like I don't know, maybe I'm a snob or crazy but like I love doing this shit, yeah you know, we, we do love. It's also a take of my net at this point. It's just something I do I swirl, whatever I'm drinking, even if it's like a glass of water.
Speaker 2:I'm swirling that shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've swirled lots of beer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think, uh. So at home I have a lot of different glassware. Uh, some of it is that plastic Govino, fucking Stanley shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause I just tossed in the washing machine and not think about it.
Speaker 1:It's a little easier.
Speaker 2:Um, I think that it kind of depends on the venue, yeah, like in a restaurant.
Speaker 1:So it's more of a setting thing for you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Really is Cause I, you know, we, we have different glassware in different restaurants. The Mcton restaurants, um, some of them don't have somewhere, but I think it's okay, Cause I'm I mean the burrito drinking a Baja Saviano Blanc. So I'm fine, drinking it out of that.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but I think that there maybe is a little too much, like I've done, the seminars where you taste different liquids out of different glassware and, yeah, there's a difference, but it's not enormous, and so we basically have three glasses a sparkling wine glass, which isn't a flute, it's more like a uh no, it's, it's more like a I think uh, I think the the term, I think it's called the Prosecco glass reedle makes it uh, but it it just has a wider mouth and allows you to get more airmatics.
Speaker 2:And then we have burgundy glasses and we have just sort of classic Bordeaux style glasses.
Speaker 1:And people on this podcast know how I feel about champagne foods.
Speaker 2:The garbage.
Speaker 1:I just don't like them.
Speaker 2:Oh good, Like I. Just we're not going to fight today.
Speaker 1:If you're going to pour me bubbles, put it in a white wine glass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, don't, don't mess around.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um or any any glass.
Speaker 2:Any glass will be fine, you know that's not a champagne flute. No, um, it's that's like. I feel like there's a leftover from the 80s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it depends, like, like you were saying earlier, your situation and the environment for sure. Like, if I'm having this champagne for the first time, I don't want it in a champagne flu, I want it in a white wine glass so I can taste everything. Single thing, yeah, we but if I've had this wine for a million times and we're cheersing to a wedding or like whatever, I don't give a shit about the glassware.
Speaker 2:Well, if you most wedding wines, not giving me shit about that anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. Bad example, but uh, you know, if I've had this bottle for you know a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been not drinking for evaluation. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think flutes are not evaluating the wine, then?
Speaker 1:Think flute sales are down in general. Yeah, you think so.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah that I don't see them much anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't go to these places, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm seeing more like the modern sleek, upright geometric kind of.
Speaker 2:Again, there's so much fashion in wine and glassware, like it's a business, like if you made a glass that was perfect and never broke, you wouldn't have a business, so they make them just fragile enough to. I mean, if I had a tally of all the glassware broken over the last 35 years in restaurants, it would be quite a tally, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've broken a lot of shit. I feel like I feel like real owes me some money for all the destruction that I've caused.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we. The amount of money we spend on glassware for the restaurants every year is pretty, pretty steep at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's made of glass. Yeah, same time Get a break.
Speaker 1:Speaking of which, my girlfriend knows me a lot of wine glasses. She always fucking breaks them. Well again, they're fragile. I need to have a spot where she can't bump into them or touch them Got it All right when I can just wash them and put them away. Yeah, a lot of the problems is I don't put them away the same time I. I leave them there for a couple of days, just upside down on the on the rack or whatever, and then she ends up hitting it or something like that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to blame you for this.
Speaker 2:It's all. It's all on you, man. It's it's all on me.
Speaker 1:It's all on me, man. That's good relationship advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always going to be you. It is the truth. Well, you're married, so that makes sense yeah, yeah, no it's, I can't wait till women just take over, right, yeah, we've been fucking it up for centuries. Totally, yeah, I just want to be a stay at home dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that doesn't sound that bad.
Speaker 2:Mine's, mine's in high school now, so I that should be sale you should be sale. Yeah, how old is?
Speaker 1:uh, he's going to be 15 in May.
Speaker 2:Oh, 15. Yeah, I was a real shithead in 15.
Speaker 1:We looked out. Yeah, we, we got a good one. Oh good, yeah, Um he's he's just maybe, maybe he's smarter than me.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's the thing. Yeah, did you take after his his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his?
Speaker 1:his, his, his dad or his mom More.
Speaker 2:He's got his mom's brains.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from here up, it's all her, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a great response.
Speaker 2:It's the only response that checks out. It's the only response Exactly it sure is so I forgot to tell you this story. The first bottle wine I ever consumed was in Shalant it was. It was at the top of No-Seam Road by the golf course there, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was sitting on the hood of my dad's Caprice Classic. It was two-tone brown. You know, oh cool With my cousin Stacy, it was a bottle of San Michel Giverts from here that we took the car key and like shoved the cork inside the bottle and downed it.
Speaker 2:So like Shalant's got definitely a place in my heart. We used to go there every Memorial Day and I love it. Week in August and after college there was a place called Dale's Tavern that me and some buddies used to roll up into, and we were in a band and Bartender Michael was an old musician. He wasn't old, but he was a musician.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, he had all the gear.
Speaker 2:We used to go to Dale's and play Dale's, so yeah, I've had a lot of good times in Shalant over the years. Dale's where's it's gone now? It was on the right hand side up from I mean. It was Senior Frog still there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's keep going down the street toward the Apple Cup. Uh-huh, it was on the right hand side. Yeah, okay, I don't know what's there now.
Speaker 1:Cool, All you Shalant locals if you listen to this there you go.
Speaker 2:Remember Dale's man, remember Dale's Michael the bartender, michael the bartender at Dale's yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're still around. It was super fun. Yeah Well, that's so cool. What year was that?
Speaker 2:That was the late 90s, early zeros. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We weren't a very good band. We weren't great.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was in a band as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were terrible and we didn't have a lot of material either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what kind of band Like? What was your influences for your band?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, this was the 90s, uh-huh and, but we were acoustic. So I don't know if you, I don't know if you could really draw a lot of lines between. I mean, we really loved the uh, the Jarrah flies out from Alison Shane's like that kind of vibe. Yeah, uh, it was a little bit of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But also we. We had a little. Uh, I had a finger picking style too, so there's a little bluesy folks in there too, oh nice.
Speaker 1:So you were actually kind of decent, I was okay, I was okay, I was okay. I was like oh, I'm so good, I'm so good, I'm so good, I'm just good, I'm just good. And I'm, I was kind of like oh, what a great musician. Not as a band, though, Like as a musician, I still play. It's a great way to relax.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it's a, but I still play a little bit too.
Speaker 1:I only play like country music or whatever, but um which is completely opposite of what I usually listen to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I grew up on country music. My dad was from the hills of West Virginia, so that was always in the car when I was in Alabama. Roll type. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I grew up on rapping hip hop mostly a lot of like underground Seattle rappers, blue scholars like Common. Market and of course, I got introduced to Tupac when I was 10 years old so, yeah, yeah, that's the only story you have to tell.
Speaker 1:That's great. Yeah, that started me. And then, well, yeah, it was pretty awesome. But then I got in the country like in high school, because my next-door neighbor across street from me she used to burn me CDs and bring it over to my house, give me some country stuff that she would listen to. Introduce me to Brad Paisley you know, and so I was like okay, I can appreciate this.
Speaker 2:Burning CDs man.
Speaker 1:It was, yeah, giving your giving your computer aids?
Speaker 2:yeah is awesome, yeah just for a few songs you know Lime Wire Napster, remember that shit.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, now Spotify yeah hey, he figured it out. Yeah, sean Parker, I think his name is Crid Napster was completely illegal.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:But it was had a good run.
Speaker 2:He got shut down and then he created Spotify and then sold it and he's probably sitting somewhere tropical right now enjoying life.
Speaker 1:Probably hanging out in Palo Alto, all the other tech dudes. Yeah, it's an interesting part of the world Enjoying some wine. I mean so when you're on vacation. I guess it really depends on where you're going, but are you drinking wine or? Yeah or drinking other cocktails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that a lot of our travel is to wine growing regions. This year we did Germany, alsace, switzerland, austria. We also spent some time in Tuscany, and but what I do when I'm there is I don't ask for anything that I've had before, like because I know that there's there's all sorts of wines everywhere in the wine growing world that I'll never get chance to have living here in Washington, so I just you mean like grape varieties, different blends or different producers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never heard of them before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also, yeah, totally grape varieties as well. Yeah, it's just love going to a wine shop and when you find the right person and explain like, give me some shit that I can't get anywhere else, that's, that's what I love to do, yeah, and I don't. And then I don't fill my suitcase with either, because it just won't taste the same. Back here I think the experience. There's something about taking wine from its source. Sometimes it's just not the same.
Speaker 1:Do you believe in like, like spiritual, like realm things when it comes to wine, and not just wine, but other things?
Speaker 2:I think that I don't want to live in a world that doesn't have some magic.
Speaker 1:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So here's a wine related magic story. I was doing a biodynamic seminar down in Napa Valley in like 2012.
Speaker 1:A biodynamics seminar?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a weekend like a biodynamic weekend, where they teach you how to do compost teas and all that stuff yeah and the. The winemaker Rudy was telling a story about when he first started at the winery and he did not believe in biodynamics. He thought it was fucking bullshit. Yeah, if you just read about it, yeah, it sounds a little bit Voodoo-y.
Speaker 1:Like sure, the moon cycles when you're racking off full moon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't taste my wine today.
Speaker 1:It's not a fruit day, like what, but yeah, that extreme with wine sales is kind of weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was. He was talking about the, the vineyard manager who'd been there for years. Just one day he says, oh, it's gonna be a really wet winter. And he's like what? He's like, yeah, look what the trees are doing, they're dropping all, all their pine cones, or sorry, they're not dropping their pine cones. And he's like, wow, that's weird. And then that was a really wet winter. And then, and then the next year he's like looking to see what the trees are doing.
Speaker 1:And so there's his name was Rudy yeah from where.
Speaker 2:I was Ellers winery. Back there's a state in Napa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh shit, awesome, they listen to this podcast.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, my wife was just down there doing the doing a tasting with her best friend Becky last oh, that's so cool. I love the wine, so not in they're not available right now in Washington, which is a shame.
Speaker 1:But yeah, they invited me to come down there and do a podcast with their y-maker, so yeah, I don't think he's there anymore.
Speaker 2:I think I gotta do it different, different crew. Yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been a decade plus. Okay, yeah, but this year, walking around walking the dog to the neighborhood, I noticed that like, oh, the trees are dumping all, all their seeds and that's because it was that fall was really dry, and so if a plant knows that it's only gonna get so much resources to get those seeds ripe, to propagate they'll, they'll do their own green harvesting right rid of everything yeah so it's it's kind of fasting, like there there's something I and I, you know, with the gun in my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe it's not true, but I I'd rather there be some magic, right. I think, yeah, you know it's magical when you taste the wine that and you, you are transported that place that came from.
Speaker 1:That's fucking magical yeah, my friend Jessica Gaska. She's a owner wine maker for own label called story of soil in Santa Barbara. She sources pretty much all of her fruit from the Santa Rita Hills area from biodynamic and organic and sustainable wineries. But she follows the biodynamic way of making wine and so she does follow the moon cycles. No, I am. I don't know what it is about it because I don't have enough information.
Speaker 1:I don't have enough knowledge of biodynamics or the moon phases to actually talk about it with any sort of education, but she exemplifies it. Her wines are fucking phenomenal and there has to be something to it. I don't know. There have been some days.
Speaker 2:So when I'm tasting a lot of wines in a day, some days I fucking don't. Nothing is worth what they're asking for. Like the prices are all wrong. But then there's some days where everything tastes fucking delicious and if you look at the Biodinamic Calendar and it says it's a fruit, they are like fuck.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep well, maybe there's something to it, but I don't know. Well, fermentation is kind of magical. Yeah, we understand yeast consumes sugar and create, but the flavors that yeast create, that's magic. Like I don't understand that that different yeast produce different flavors really. So what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting Because the way I learned was low intervention while I'm making, and so we did a lot of native ferments when I was learning and that was the first, second and third winery I worked for that they're doing native stuff not all native, but mostly native and then I come to an area that doesn't necessarily have that same mindset or culture involved and I think native is bullshit and it's like oh, I've never had this sort of friction before when talking about native ferments, because I don't know how.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you feel about points or whatever, but when I was doing a native ferment with X, y and Z or Jaffers, we would regularly get like 99 points from Jabdonic, which is great. We were always searching for that 100 mark, but and that was a regular thing at least like three years in a row. And then I come to a different place where they're doing a lot more manipulation and not making the same quality and there's also a lot of different variables within that too, terroir is a thing like you know where you grow grapes, how you farm it, when you pick it, you know everything.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, like well, these people have kind of archaic tools, like they haven't bought any new equipment in like 10 fucking years and they're making some kick-ass shit. And then you're wanting to buy like everything and you're not, and so it's like Better wine through technology sometimes is not true. Yeah, I don't think quality wine stems from technology. I don't think that's a thing, but it does help In certain cases, like you can't rely on technology to make the wine for you.
Speaker 2:No, although there are some wineries that just make wine by recipe, so you know yes.
Speaker 1:Those oscillating, oscillating sorting machines are crazy. Have you heard about those? So, basically, it's a new technology, well new within the last five years or so. So Oshonasy and Napa, they have this. They have two or three of these sorting machines because they're crazy. So you, there's like an iPad, essentially on the sorting machine, and then you tell it which grapes you want, Like these are the ones I want to keep Ones that look like this keep this.
Speaker 2:So it's like an optical sorter on steroids.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it has a little laser, it goes through, has a little puff of air. Everything that's not up to that standard gets puffed out. It's like what the fuck? It's crazy. I mean it's so fucking expensive.
Speaker 2:They're hell mountains. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1:It's like buying a house for three houses, cause they have three of them.
Speaker 2:I think it's great that we can live in a world where that technology can create a very specific experience where another wine maker will be like whole cluster. That's the way to make wine Right, like there's so many different avenues to go down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's also stylistic yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think that a lot of winemakers, if you ask them, what do you do today? Any wine maker that's been doing it for a couple decades, like, do you make wine the same way you did a decade ago? They'll be no, everything's different. Oh, yeah, it's. We're still learning, yeah. And I think that I mean when I think about the quality of wine in the Northwest over the last 20 years, like it's changed that fuck ton. Yeah, there's a lot of good fucking wine out there.
Speaker 1:There is and I'm here for it. Yeah, it's quite a right. I love it. Does make it difficult. It's harder to make a list. Harder to make a list. It is harder Because you're like.
Speaker 2:I want to add this I want to add this it is and because you can't buy everybody's wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, does it break your heart sometimes.
Speaker 2:It does because there's some winemakers who are making great stuff. But the business of buying wine isn't just getting the things you want. It's part of its continuity, part of its price, part of its what does the restaurant need? Like, when I taste with people, I never tell them what I think, because it doesn't fucking matter what I think. It's what the restaurant needs. And so I try to take myself out of the equation as much as possible, because I can fall in love with the wine but it might not end up on the wine list.
Speaker 1:Right, because it's not about you. It's about the customer and it's about the restaurant.
Speaker 2:And I don't want to ever have people look at my wines and go, oh, that's definitely a Chris Warren wine list, because I don't want to have my hand in that in such a way that it becomes obvious. I think good wine list is like having every kind of music that you can think of in the same place and so that when somebody comes in and wants some country music, I've got a bottle of it and it's priced correctly and it sounds great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you got a bottle of ace of spades sitting in the back in the fridge too.
Speaker 2:For the people that want to spend money.
Speaker 1:Spend money yeah nope. That's Jay-Z's label. Yeah, oh well, when they were.
Speaker 2:Well, he's part owner. Yeah, Full owner. We've had a lot of celebs come in over the years, and so when he was in town with Beyonce, we made sure that we got some doose cognac.
Speaker 1:There you go. Just in case they came in, just in case, because you don't want you got to have it, because what happens if Jay-Z asks for?
Speaker 2:his cognac and you're like, oh, I don't have it.
Speaker 1:You got to have it for a hove in the queen man, yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't be a dick, but sadly no yeah.
Speaker 1:I forgot to do this for the main episode, but can you plug? I'll put it in as well. Plug anything you need to plug or want to.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I think that I'm not really good at self-promotion.
Speaker 1:OK, never have been. I'm not selling anything either. Maybe restaurant promotion.
Speaker 2:I mean, people can come to a cafe in Seattle or Woodinville, but we have a variety of great restaurants. We have some great Mexican restaurants, we have a lovely sort of American Italian concept and then we have a really amazing sort of plant forward restaurant called Liv Bud that is some of the best food that we make and Chef Sarah is fierce and the wine that makes things it does skew toward the natural side of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's just hard to find, because all the construction on the road in front of the place is making it hard to get there. It's crazy, but that will fade in time it will, which is good, but yeah, I think we're just going to keep trying, because in the restaurant business, if you don't keep evolving and keep trying, you will die. So I think, we've done a pretty good job.
Speaker 1:You've got to be a chameleon. Yeah, got to adapt.
Speaker 2:And yeah, for the thing that I said would never work. It's been 18 years, yeah. There, you go, it's never going to work.
Speaker 1:I'm still here. I'm still here, here we go. It's working. It's working Well. Thank you, Chris, for coming on the podcast Appreciate it. Jabroni Gang. Thank you guys for your support. I hope you love this episode. Yeah, Thank you, man. Cheers Bye.