#16: Carhartt Family Wines w/ Winemaker Chase Carhartt

CARHARTT FAMILY WINES:
Website: www.carharttfamilywines.com
Instragram: @carharttfamilywines
TikTok: @carharttfamilywines

BUNG POD
Merch: www.bungpod.store

Embark on a heartfelt odyssey to the scenic vineyards of Santa Ynez Valley with us, as we reconnect with Chase Carhartt, the winemaking virtuoso of Carhartt Vineyard. Chase's narrative takes us through the verdant rows of his childhood memories, where the seeds of his winemaking destiny were sown at the tender age of nine. As he swaps tales of academia and the tug-of-war between societal expectation and personal passion, you'll feel the palpable weight of each decision that steered him toward his true calling. This is a story of legacy, love for the vine, and the serendipitous moments that ferment into a life's work.

As we traverse the globe together, sipping insights from various wine regions, you'll feel the loss of travel plans to Tasmania dashed by the pandemic, but gain a world of knowledge from our international experiences. Visualize the unique challenges that vintners face, like the baboon brigade in South African vineyards and the wild boar skirmishes in California, through vivid accounts that showcase the unpredictable and thrilling world of grape cultivation. These tales from the trellis underscore the resilience and adaptability needed to nurture the perfect vintage, no matter the continent.

Finally, we raise a glass to the storied tapestry of Carhartt Family Wines, weaving through the entrepreneurial spirit of Hamilton Carhartt since 1889. Discover how the West Coast Carhartts have poured their hearts into each bottle, creating an artisan experience that speaks to the soul of winemaking. Our Venture label embodies the spirit of experimentation, captivating our wine club members with every unique pour. Join us for this intimate exploration of vintages that tell a story, connecting us all in the universal language of wine.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Bung pod. Welcome back, wine Wonderboy. And we got Jazzy J. Jazzy, what is a bung? The hole of the barrel is called a bung hole. Inside the bung hole is called a bung Wine with mayhem. That's what it's about. All right, welcome back to the Bung Pod. It's your boy, ian King, aka Wine Wonderboy in the building. Jazzy J is not here right now, but I did a little traveling. I'm down here in Santa Barbara, the birthplace of my wine career, with my friend and I would say mentor as well, chase Carhart. Welcome, chase, what's?

Speaker 1: 0:47

happening, thanks for coming to the pod man.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Really appreciate it. So all the fan base for the Bung Pod knows I reference Carhart exhaustively sometimes in the pod. So I felt it only right for them to meet you and for you to express kind of like what Carhartt's all about, what you guys do, from your great varieties to your inspirations behind your wines as well. So with that, what's your wine background? Like Like how'd you start getting into this? And like why are you here?

Speaker 2: 1:29

Good question and also one that I do. I get asked a lot and also, I think, maybe some common misconception around how generations get into wine. I don't know about everybody else, but I speak for myself. I mean, you know, my parents planted our vineyard in 1996 and um for first vintage in 98. Uh, in 90, I mean I was born in 89, so at the time, you know, I was nine years old. So essentially like as they started to get their start in wine and in grape growing, I was reasonably young and kind of came up as they were coming up, um, or just, like you know, got older in the business, um, when they plant their first. 96 was when we planted seven acres of merlot and three acres of syrah, okay, on the, on the mace up there and um, yeah, so I mean, I remember when planted, I remember being up there as a kid, like when there was nothing up there, um, but yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2: 2:29

I guess the point of that is I grew up in it and I think it's kind of interesting to a lot of people think like, oh, you were like born to do this or you must've known from a young age that you wanted to do this, and that is like just simply not true at all.

Speaker 2: 2:47

How can you? I've always thought, like how that's just not typical for a young kid to be, like I want to be a winemaker when I grew up. I mean maybe that happens, yeah, and who knows. But generally speaking, it's like I want to be a astronaut, I want to be a firefighter like not, I want to make alcohol at seven years old, you know, not really knowing the full thing. So anyways, like yeah, I mean I was quite frankly. I mean yeah, I grew up in it and was involved in the winery and involved in winemaking and all that stuff and seeing my dad farming and all that stuff was really cool. But I mean in high school I just did a talk at my high school the other day actually, and talked to some students like I am not a natural genius in terms of school stuff okay, yeah, like that's not my academically, academically like I'm not a high sat score type guy.

Speaker 2: 3:43

That is not. I am not good at, probably at tests. Generally I'm not a high SAT score, I'm a hard worker. So I got very good marks in school all throughout my school career because all I did was just like work as hard as I could. You know why? I'm not really sure, for some reason, but I, um, I just worked as hard as I could, probably because my parents pushed me to do that. Um, but anyways, the point of that is when I was getting close to graduating high school and you know, like applying to colleges, like I was, there was a big division Like I was like okay, well, kind of. I was like I applied to Cal Poly, san Luis Obispo for winemaking, for a degree in winemaking, but wine and viticulture being the title, and then I also applied to like a variety of schools, mostly in California, not all, but mostly in California, I would say, primarily for international business. That was the kind of goal for me and I felt at the time that that was what I deserved.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Okay yeah because I'd worked so hard in high school and I quickly well, I don't say quickly, but I realized over time that that was just like also, I think, kind of ridiculous and that was like more societal. That that was put on me, yeah, that I should be going to like an ivy league school or some shit, right, like that was not of interest, that really doesn't mean anything. I ended up going to cal poly, ended up choosing cal poly, um, because I was like you know, there is a really good base in this whole wine game. It is something I'm interested in. Yeah, I just didn't know if that was like my. You know, there is a really good base in this whole wine game.

Speaker 2: 5:25

It is something I'm interested in I just didn't know if that was like my forever, but it is something I'm interested in, so let's give it a go. I ended up getting into Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo and my college career there was amazing and essentially what I discovered, you know, was that I was enjoying it more and more. It was definitely like, as I started getting into details, it was like, oh shit, this is like there's a lot to this. Yeah, it's very hard to master, it's unmasterable, that's kind of cool. And then what really set my entire career off, I would say quite frankly, was in my third year and I tell everybody this because this is like this is the most important thing I think in anybody's career personally, if you can, if you're the right age or really just any point in your career.

Speaker 2: 6:20

In my third year at Cal Poly, they forced you to do a practical and every other student was like I'm going to work in slow, I'm going to work in Paso and I'm going to take classes at the same time and I want to work at all the same fucking wineries and all this stuff. And I was like it was like the most confusing concept to me, like you're working in your backyard and taking classes at the same time. That means you're going to graduate faster, yeah, and I was like why, well, for me, wine and vit. Like dude, I was like this rules. Like I've grown up my life working, like when I was at school. Like dude, my parents weren't there to be. Like, what are you doing? What are you getting done this weekend? Like, what kind of work are you putting in with the ranch? Yeah, the winery.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Like, yeah, I was at school so I was like dude, I got plenty of other cool shit I can do like I was on my own man, yeah. So I was like I'm not trying to speed this up, I know what my life's gonna look like at some point. I know what it looks like if I go back home which don't't get me wrong, I don't dislike but I'm going to milk an opportunity when I see one Right. And so, yeah, I just was. Uh, anyways, my third year, all these students doing that. I was like that's not for me. Um, I have a friend, uh, here in Santinez or in storm, storm wines, and he's South African. And, um, he was like. He was like we were chatting about it and he was like do you want to do a harvest in South Africa? And I was like hell, yeah, africa. Like, like, is that like lions and tigers and bears running?

Speaker 1: 7:56

around on the street Like what's that like?

Speaker 2: 7:58

Um, I had no knowledge. You know I'm being a little bit facetious, but you get what I'm saying. Like I had no concept of what life, winemaking, anything, culture, nothing was like in South Africa. Yeah, and it just sounded exotic and an adventure. And so I went winter quarter at Cal Poly. I took off and flew in air, turned 21, landed in Cape Town on my 21st birthday.

Speaker 2: 8:24

Wow in air, turned 21, landed in Cape town on my 21st birthday and touched down and was like I felt I know this is going to sound weird, but I still get chills thinking about it Like I felt this like vibration when I hit the ground, when I touched the ground with my feet and I was like. I felt like this sense of belonging and almost a sense of being at home and for me that has never occurred to me anywhere else but the San Ynez Valley, ever anywhere in the world that I've ever been. And anyways, touched down in South Africa and literally dude, like I mean not to make a long story too long, but like got my. These were the iPod days I had an iPod yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Got my iPod stolen within 24 hours just by being an idiot and leaving it places. Got it stolen by the people I was going to work with for the next three months, like someone took it oh shit, you know, but they have nothing and uh, just through a series of events and just like ended up landing in this cool place, like right on the beach. I was working for a winery up in the himalayan arda and I was the only intern for this family company and the bottom line is dude, like that. That trip changed my life. It changed how I look at wine, it changed how I view the industry and basically what I realized during that trip is like dude, you can travel for wine and work in other parts of the world for wine in a million different capacities, and I can. I was able to be like dude, I'm gonna do. I was just like I'm gonna do this for as long as I can. Yeah, and my dad's? You know, I was always thinking about my dad, like he's not gonna be able to say shit to me because I'm working. Yeah, I'm honing my skill set, so like I can go fuck off for four months and like, not really, you know work, but I can also experience culture and food and life.

Speaker 2: 10:23

And Africa was like dude, dude, mind blowing. I mean, that place makes you feel alive Like no, no other place, man, definitely. And so I did that. I came back to Cal Poly a changed man and, um, I never looked back. And then I basically spent the next not in, not every single year the next 10th decade traveling to mostly the southern hemisphere not entirely, but mostly southern hemisphere um every almost every year. Uh, there was a couple years where I worked three harvests in a year. Um, how's that work? It works by. Yeah, so, like I did so I did 2015 march, I flew to tasmania, so off the coast of australia, did a, did a harvest in tasmania, came back in summer, worked um fall with my family, made one here, fall of 15, and then early harvest january, flew over mid-january 2016 to south africa cool climate, so mainly pinot and chardonnay with storm wines and finished in like late feb so in

Speaker 2: 11:39

a 12 month year I did three, three v. That's crazy and that was kind of like my. I mean this is not uncommon. Right In in in business, Um, if you can triple, double or triple your opportunity, right when most people take one opportunity a year, it's harvest, it's one time a year I was doubling or tripling down every year. So my experience double or tripled, um over a 10 year period Like, yeah, I mean duh, and I got to travel the world and see things and I did that until 2020 and then COVID hit and life got real and really real.

Speaker 2: 12:16

But all the while I was building business here with my parents and so all of this, just go back. It was just a culmination of a lot of things and I was learning about sales, I was learning about production, I was learning about viticulture, I was learning about dealing with different cultures, communication. Just inherent in that was just management. I mean I was coming into a lot of these sellers, not entirely, but like with experience that a lot of the other seller interns didn't have Right, Because they didn't have their own family business or they weren't managing employees at the time, or they didn't have as big a robust of direct consumer business as we did.

Speaker 2: 12:52

So you know, I was probably. I'd like to think that I made made my value very apparent very early on, because I'm just going to get in. I was the, I was proud to be the epitome of the American muscle. Yeah, you go into another country everybody's kind of it's fun. Man, you live in a house with a bunch of people from a bunch of different cultures and you get in. That's cool. How are you going to define yourself? I define myself by being, straight up, american muscle. I'm going to get in here and outwork everybody. Yeah, and I like that it muscle. Like I'm gonna get in here and outwork everybody, yeah, and I like that, like it was fun in a cool way, like in a very like, yeah, good way. But yeah, you gotta it's, it's a fun deal to get out there and like, get thrown in the mix with a bunch of people and be like, how are you gonna come out? You know it's like it's a jungle, yeah, and like I love that shit, I really do. And, uh, I miss it.

Speaker 1: 13:41

I miss being able to do that, but you know all right, let's take a quick break for a second, because I got something I want to tell you guys about. If you want an extra episode per week, if you want exclusive discounts on some dope ass merch that we got, also, if you want to add your two cents, your opinions, your hot takes or your ideas, we want to hear about it, go to patreoncom slash officialbungpod and talk to us. Now let's get back to the show. All right, guys, we got some news. We have an official bungpod store. We got some merch going bungpodstore.

Speaker 1: 14:24

Update your life, update your wardrobe. You need some new clothes. You need to look fresh. Update your life, update your style. We got hoodies, we got handbags, we got stickers, we got beanies. We got more coming on the way. So if you like the show and you want to cop yourself some merch, go to bungpodstore. Now let's get back to the show. I mean, I almost went to Tasmania one year. I called you and it was in 21, I believe I wasn't able to go because it was just after COVID and Australia wasn't letting anyone in.

Speaker 2: 15:04

Yeah, it was a tough time time, yeah, so I wasn't able to go, but, um man, that travel experience.

Speaker 1: 15:12

That's one thing.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Cool about the wine industry you can do, though, is like do a harvest in you know two places of the world in one year dude 100 and get so much experience yeah, and also just like I think I again, I think people ask me the, the just to bank off of that right, like traveling for wine and working a vintage somewhere else, or just just it doesn't matter what part of the industry you're in. In my opinion, production, sure yeah. But even if you were like you know what, I'm gonna go over to this part of the world and work in a wine shop, or I'm gonna go this part of world and be like wine distribution, I don't know, whatever you can find, yeah, to me it's psychological too right, like it's a study of human beings, it's the, the study of decision-making. Like I know how to like by 2017, 2018, I've been doing this a long time Like I know how wine's made.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not saying that you don't learn tricks and like really cool stuff, but I wasn't studying that at that point. I wasn't studying how wine is made. I was I'm no offense like all the places I've been. Like there's a little bit of different treatment of stuff, for sure, but that's different treatment of grapes in that particular part of the world, so it's very specific to that area too it doesn't mean you can just take that trick and bring it back to your place.

Speaker 2: 16:40

People make this mistake all the time. Bring it back home and just use it. You got to refine that base off your own situation, your own set of terroir, if you want to.

Speaker 2: 16:51

So, what I was doing which I think is the smart thing in my opinion, because this has helped me more than anything is studying the minds and studying a winemaker's decision-making processes. Studying how they react to scenarios, analyses, studying how they react to scenarios, not just because of who they are as a person, but how they assess a problem, particularly problems. So if we get really bad rain in the middle of harvest and we've got white, tight, clustered white grapes hanging, or like you got chardonnay out there and mildew starts to happen, or just a variety of issues like that, right, like I've seen bad shit happen and south africa is a perfect example of where there's four seasons in one day like all sorts of shit can happen. So, seeing how people do that, seeing how culture, how work culture is I've never been to another country and a story period that works like we work in the US, that harvests like we harvest, that has the same mentality for work, right, it, just it's very different.

Speaker 2: 17:56

And then culturally too, how do you, what does it feel like to work with a bunch of French people or Italian people or Spanish people or Argentinians or any of that stuff? Like, what is that? What does that look like and how do they relate to what we're doing, to the process of what we're doing? So to me again, it's it's not necessarily just the, just the actual I, just the actual thing, it's how we're going about. That thing that I was studying and I think um sort of consciously and and subconsciously that has affected who I am.

Speaker 1: 18:37

Is it true? I heard this? I'm not sure, but in South Africa, is it true that their number one pest for vineyards are baboons?

Speaker 2: 18:48

Yeah, a living thing. Yeah, I mean I would say that that is a real, real threat. That is a legitimate threat. Do they eat the grapes or do more than that? Eating the grapes is like really, actually, I mean almost the least of it, like I have seen a tribe of baboons like come through vineyard.

Speaker 2: 19:07

I mean, I don't know if they call them a tribe or troop, I can't really remember, but whatever, um you know, there can be 15, there can be like 100, and they are agile and they are strong and they are just lawless how do you get rid of them?

Speaker 1: 19:30

I mean shoot like no no one shoots them there.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Most of the people that I was encountered don't shoot them, but they will shoot like can air cannons or guns scare them away, to scare them, yeah, yeah, or dogs, something, um, you know that's. It's the same thing over there. Like most people aren't like like really, you know like for like going and actually killing these animals, like that's not the idea, yeah. But they're aggressive. They will go through a vineyard and not just eat the grapes, they will snap cordons snap branches I mean we're talking about complete decimating an entire block or an entire vineyard.

Speaker 2: 20:05

Yeah, it's really bad. Like entire block or an entire vineyard. Yeah, it's really bad. Like they don't have a problem with that. They'll break into people's homes, go into the cupboards, take out cans, smash the cans on the ground and just completely like destroy places because that's how they are, you know, that's how they, that they move. That's insane. Yeah, so that kind of pest I mean is, I mean it makes us and like our deer problem. The closest thing I would say here is like is like hogs, like wild boar.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Oh right, wild pigs Central coast?

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah, we have really bad issues in certain parts of the central coast with wild pigs Right they will go through and really screw up vineyards yeah. But I would say that baboons are probably the worst pests I have ever seen in the world anywhere. Easily, yeah, and everybody's different. I didn't see any pests in Argentina. I didn't see any pests in France. They basically have nothing. They have like a little bit of deer.

Speaker 1: 21:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:02

They barely even had bird issues.

Speaker 1: 21:03

I mean, we have bird issues here. Yeah, that's why we net yeah. But a lot of places don't have you know as bad a bird issues. But yeah, it was. Yeah, it's crazy dude, so let's talk about the elephant in the room real quick for the people listening. Your last name is carhartt. Your winery is called carhartt family wines. What's the connection between the clothing company and your family and this winery?

Speaker 2: 21:29

It's a great question. I mean, I would be asking that question too. So my great-great-grandfather Hamilton Carhartt, I basically started Carhartt Clothing in 1889. It was really actually a couple years before that, but the formal date is 1889 um, in michigan, detroit, and uh, basically he had I mean to make to try and keep it short he had a couple of kids, hamilton jr and wiley. You know, hamilton Jr ended up coming out to the West coast and Wiley stayed back and Hamilton Jr is my great grandfather so not my great great, but my grandfather and he came out to West coast, pasadena area, and then my grandfather was born in Pasadena, and my dad was actually born in Pasadena too at it, but in a very, very early age came up here to Rancho San Ynez and then I was born here.

Speaker 2: 22:31

So, that side of the family. Basically that's how we ended up on the West coast and my other side of my family, um, is the, the the Wiley side, if you want to call it that but we all trace back to Hamilton. Um, they still are in Detroit and they still own Carhartt clothing and it's privately held and they're amazing and we're super good friends. But in terms of like relationship to Carhartt clothing, carhartt family lines is just familial. We carry the name um, but it's a family so not business related or financially evolved correct?

Speaker 2: 23:09

yeah, so we don't. Um, we're completely separate businesses in every single way you could imagine. Yeah, um, we have no involvement in car clothing other than me basically wearing the clothes every single day and working in them and, uh, family back east drinking our wines. They make the clothes, I wear them. We make the wine they drink it.

Speaker 1: 23:33

It's symbiotic, it's a good relationship. Yeah, it's a great relationship.

Speaker 2: 23:37

And they're family and they're amazing. I have a very, very small family and we're very close with them and my cousins out there are my age and we're all kind of in the same place in life and it's awesome.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Yeah, that's rad, yeah, so with Carhartt Family Wines you guys do a lot of different great varieties. You yourself, I mean you make like wines for three labels technically three, yeah, I would say technically two labels, technically two, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 24:08

So Carhartt Family Wines is. It's grown over the years. Right, it used to just be Carhartt Vineyard. It was like that for a long time. We had one vineyard. That's what my parents planted.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Yeah, that's when I started here, yep, and as it grew, it grew, we started planting a little bit more estate excuse me, estate, fruit, um, and basically it's kind of yeah, so I was traveling at that same time, right, so this is all kind of coming together. But, um, as car vineyard was growing and as our plantings were growing and as we were making a little bit more wine, um, we, uh, I was also traveling abroad. And so, in 2016, I started a second label called Carhartt Venture, and Venture label is this is the way that I define them but Carhartt is our kind of a state brand and Venture is our progressive, more experimental brand. And I started Carhartt Venture because I was traveling these other countries and had all these crazy ideas and experiments I wanted to do, and I didn't want to do them with Carhartt Vineyard at the time because I didn't want to change the style that my mom had developed. So my mom has been the winemaker and now we co-winemake, but she was the winemaker in the beginning. She started it with my dad, who was the head viticulturalist, and I didn't want to mess with that. Like I really liked it, we'd built a wine club off of that. I love the style. I love the idea. That was consistency in our own style and I didn't want to mess with that. You know it's what people have been trusting. So I wanted like a clean slate and that's why venture was started. Um, and then in like I guess like 21, we finally launched I think it was 21.

Speaker 2: 25:54

We finally launched Carhartt family wines, which is a rebrand of basically our entire operation. Um, and I'd been waiting to do that for a long time. I'd been working on it for years and years, so finally launched the rebrand Carhartt family wines. More comprehensive, we farm three vineyards. Now we farm from original 10 acres. We farm 23 acres. We grow over 11 different varieties. Now Carhartt Family Wines label, our family label, is 100% estate Carharttfruit wines crazy, sparkling fuck.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Like whatever dude like anything that I feel like, would you put it under the umbrella of natural wines?

Speaker 2: 27:01

or I try to.

Speaker 2: 27:02

I'm like, I think I'm in the camp with most people of kind of I sort of use that term sparingly now okay, yeah I try to use that term sparingly, because I think like the idea of natural wine in some circles is kind of getting a little bit of a like a weird rap um, for good reason, but kind of a weird rap. Like I'm kind of in the middle of that whole thing, like I drink a lot of quote-unquote natural wines right, and a lot of them are like terrible um, honestly, yeah, they're really bad.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I've had some really terrible ones. I've had some amazing ones.

Speaker 2: 27:36

Yeah, it's true, right like anyways, we can get on that topic anytime, but I don't call them natural wines, I would. I would say, yes, there are a few wines that I make that are sort of like zero, zero wines or zero wines, in other words, I don't know. Additives I put on the label nothing added, nothing taken away when I um I like that when I make wine.

Speaker 2: 28:00

That is just without any, any additions of any kind and no sulfur, like I just put nothing out of nothing taken away, and that's that's kind of the idea, right, and I get that. That to some people means natural wine, but I think, unfortunately, natural wine is now the name is carrying this connotation of being like super funky and kind of like weird. And I'm not saying that some of my wines aren't funky or aren't weird, but they sure as shit are not full of like classical wine faults.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Yeah, and that's the issue that I got.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Yeah, right, like a little va from time to time is okay. Um, certain times oxidation is actually like certain wine styles it can be okay. Brett can be okay in certain parts of the world it has been in traditional wine circles. I just am not into the like no offense like the people that get into this game that have only been making, that have never made wine before and think they're like expert marketers and like get in and like make this crazy wine and and just like are playing into the fat of natural wine and it's full, it's fucked up and they think that they can get away. And they are getting away with it a little bit.

Speaker 2: 29:14

I. But also I kind of support some of that because I'm almost like if it brings another person into wine, then I almost am cool with it too. So I I guess I I hesitate to be too hard-lined on any of that stuff because I'm also so, I'm so passionate about bringing more people into wine, and particularly the younger generation, that I almost would say like I don't care what the cost is, even if they come in, because they're just like amped on this, like kind of shitty natural wine. Yeah, whatever it is like you know, like you'll figure it out over time, probably, or like you'll develop your own thoughts. Wine is subjective. If you love that, great, I'm not. I know I can explain very clearly why certain wines are good and why other wines are not right according to me, okay, but you know so yeah I don't call, I don't call venture wines necessarily natural wines.

Speaker 2: 30:10

Some of them, though, again, um, you know, if people, if, if that's what like makes people want to buy the wine because it's like a natural wine, then yeah, I guess it's a fucking natural wine dude.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah, you know what I mean. Like sure, buy it.

Speaker 2: 30:23

I guess it's a natural wine if that means to you, but I hesitate a little bit, um, but yeah, anyways, that's kind of where we're at are you still doing cause you were doing like an import label? Oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:34

So um, yeah, I did that for a couple of minutes I just did it for a couple of minutes that I haven't been back to South Africa after 2020. That's why but, um, yeah, uh, the reason that got started was I was and that's something I probably would love to continue at some point in my life but I was. I worked I've worked five vintages in south africa and very shortly after doing a few vintages abroad, I was like damn, I'm making like no money. And in south africa I was probably close to losing money, because the daily rate of pay is is so low that it's it's almost like you're losing money.

Speaker 2: 31:12

I have enough to live but, I wasn't accumulating enough money to like pay for my plane flight home type thing. So like it was kind of like I was losing, um, and that's okay, like at a certain point in life, that's fine.

Speaker 1: 31:25

And you should do that you should lose for a while.

Speaker 2: 31:28

And then it gets to a point where it's like I have a whole business back home, like I don't think I can afford to to lose like this. Yeah, so financially. So I was like, um, I asked the winemaker for storm wines uh, south Africa Hannes, who is a good friend of mine, him and his wife, natalia, and um, they, uh, you know, I was like, hey, if I come over there and work vintage with you and bring someone with me to um right from here, like introduce, you know, bring, bring, help, so essentially supply you with with harvest work, can I make some wine? And we agreed on what we wanted to do and that was the idea, kind of a little bit like that.

Speaker 2: 32:13

And we ended up in 2018 making a multi-Appalachian Pinot Noir from Chimelenarda, which is cool climate. It's like the honestly, I think, one of the best regions in South Africa and the Western Cape. But it's also cool climate. It's maritime influenced. So multi-appalachian pinot noir and single vineyard syrah from the lowest appalachian, the closest to the coastline it's about a mile and a half from the ocean.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Okay, just yeah fucking gnarly, like I've never seen a lot of grapes being grown that close to the ocean. I mean, it's very rare and uh. So, yeah, we um did that in 2018 and then imported it back into the us in like end of 19 and sold that. And then I did that again in 2020, um, because I I just didn't do it in 19 because it was like the first time we'd done the project, and then in 2020 I did it again and then we sold through that and I didn't go back after 20.

Speaker 2: 33:16

2020 is my last vintage abroad because of covid and life also got kind of serious, but covid definitely fucked it up yeah, um, you're a busy dude, yeah and like.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Yeah, it just kind of like it didn't like set, you know.

Speaker 2: 33:29

It just kind of like knocked us all off the tracks a little bit with stuff.

Speaker 2: 33:36

But yeah, the label is Cargo. It was a little bit of a collab label that I did with an importing company in SoCal called Argo. Really great, Really great. That's a little plug for them. I mean, they're amazing, a little great importing and distribution company out of Costa Mesa and, yeah, we brought those wines in. They, they were great to work with and, um, it was a way it was ultimately supposed to be, a way, not just it was a little bit of a justification for me going over there and working, but also mainly it was like how can I show people South African wines?

Speaker 2: 34:07

How can I expose South Africa to at least my network of people? Um, from the lens of me as a winemaker who you trust already, yeah, so, like that is kind of actually my dream and eventually, like I would love to travel around the world and and I would love to continue the operation here and I would love to travel to other regions and help create wines in more undiscovered regions with people and then be able to bring those wines back and import them back and sell them under the context of hey, you trust me, you understand that I'm not going to be producing bad wines and I have reasons for how. I want, you know, I come from a production. I'm not a psalm, right, no. But like I come from a production background, like and I'm not going to spin like a marketing story Like I have real reasons for the place, time for the, I have real reasons for where I go and why I go Right and like I don't know. I think that's that's the unique.

Speaker 2: 35:08

That was the unique angle for me is like trust someone in production you know, for knowing what chemistry is and how wines are made, not just what the final product is, but how we got there, right, uh. And so, yeah, it was, it was really great and people got to, uh, experience south africa wine through, through, um, I think, my, you know, my, my lens, so to speak, and the goal was accomplished. It was albeit on small scale, but the goal was accomplished. We did like 150 cases of pinot and 100 cases of syrah. It wasn't big, it's not nothing, but it wasn't big.

Speaker 1: 35:43

Um, but I'd love to, I'd love to do it again, but at the moment that project is on pause okay, yeah, yeah, um, because cause I getting close to the end for the episode, uh, but do you want to plug anything Like where can people find you? Uh, where can they find your wines?

Speaker 2: 36:02

Oh man, um well, I'll, I do, we didn't. I want to just like give context to for, like, what we do. Um so, just because I think context, that's how I really usually start every conversation with anybody that I meet um we do now about between 7,000 and 7,500 cases annually. It's like 90,000 bottles um, which you know, to a lot of people is like how big is that? They have no idea Right.

Speaker 2: 36:32

Um, that's a really small winery on a global context. I think a lot of people would feel that way. I mean, we have wineries in San Ynez that are producing 3000 cases, so 7,500 is not really tiny, but it's globally. It is like barely a blip on the radar. Yeah then, but the part that's like kind of unique in that is that we now, you know pretty much for the last handful of years more, we've produced over 30 different wines between the venture and car family wines label. So 30, 35 different wines, something like that.

Speaker 1: 37:08

So 30 wines, not 30 grape varieties.

Speaker 2: 37:11

I probably do grape varieties 17 to 20 annually and Venture Label. I usually work with different grape varieties every year, but, yeah, so that's a lot of breakdown. We do 25 cases of one and Grenache is our largest production at 700 cases, which is still really small. Grenache is like our largest production at like 700 cases, which is still really small. Yeah, and then I guess what further separates us is we're still and we've been this way for close to a decade I'd say a little less than a decade, but we're 100% direct consumer.

Speaker 2: 37:48

So we don't sell our wines anywhere no restaurants, no wine bars, no markets. We're 100% direct to the consumer through our tasting room, which is in Los Olivos, online, do a fair amount of e-commerce, and then our wine club, which is like that's. You know, a lot of companies have a wine club, but we're over 70% distributed directly to a group of people yeah, which is awesome, awesome, they're amazing. Group, um and uh, they've been very supportive and so that's that's kind of my ultimate dream is just continue with wine club. Yeah, like, I have no distribution is not like my goal.

Speaker 2: 38:31

Contrary to most parts of the world, most winemakers, distribution is a big part of their business and also something that they love.

Speaker 2: 38:39

I don't love distribution yeah, I would consider it in certain instances, but I don't love it. Um, I love direct consumer because I love relationships, yeah, and I like trust and loyalty and understanding and, in today's world, knowing exactly where wine comes from and that sort of stuff is really important. Um and yeah, so that's that's. You can buy our wines by joining the club, which is what I think is the best, because we throw epic parties and a lot of cool events and the tasting rooms open 364 days a year in Los Olivos, um, or you can just buy them online. You can hit us up on any of our social channels or email us or any of that Um, and we're we're out there to educate and help, like what you're trying to do with this podcast and what we're, what you are doing, I should say, and what we're you know doing with our social and stuff, is to try and educate and give people sort of the truth. Yeah, totally, and it's coming, you know, from right here, man.

Speaker 2: 39:41

I mean it's still family farmed Like that. Shit's hard to have your own estate fruit and be making wine and be running a direct consumer operation. It takes every ounce of my being every single day basically, and but that's what we sort of.

Speaker 2: 39:57

It's also the dream in many, many senses so yeah, that's what we do, um, you know, like I said, venture is now very experimental. I mean, I was making some wines like every year kind of thing, and now I think I have like two wines that I make consistently under venture label and everything else are one offs.

Speaker 1: 40:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:17

So like I just make one one year and that's it, like I don't make it again kind of thing Like all of them are like unique pieces of art for that single vintage and I just I don't want anything to be consistent and I don't want people to um, I don't want people to feel comfortable with it yeah right like I don't. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in people feeling like they are excited for the unknown right, that's yeah, and then that's it, and you're challenging people too.

Speaker 2: 40:50

Yes, I want you to drink those wines and be like, damn, this is good and I've wines and be like damn this is good, and I've never had this variety before.

Speaker 2: 40:56

Or damn, this is good and I've never heard of this grape or this style or this method. Or I can't believe this is an unsulfured wine or fuck yeah, any of that stuff. Like I want to expose people to something and you know, sometimes those wines are a little bit more abrasive, not because they're not made well, but like sometimes people aren't going to dig all the styles, yeah, and I'm totally cool with that, because if I'm not doing that, I'm probably still not going hard enough.

Speaker 1: 41:28

Yeah, and if they don't want to be challenged, they want to be comfortable and they want to just way.

Speaker 2: 41:32

but I mean, we're also coming out with new estate wines that people have never seen before. Still, yeah like we just released graciano. I mean, we've been growing that since 2017 it's our first time. We just released the 19, like two weeks ago, you know like the 19 yeah 19. Hey, I helped make that one. Yeah, there you go, hell yeah I did some work on it.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Yeah, well, that's cool.

Speaker 2: 42:14

Yeah, it's up at the tasting room, so you'll go and taste that. There's actually a lot of 19s that are being released right now.

Speaker 1: 42:20

Wayward Sun up there, San Bernardino's.

Speaker 2: 42:22

Pinot yeah, that one was pretty consistent for a while. Yeah, there's a fair amount. I mean 19 merlot, 19 there's a lot of 19s that are, like just now, hitting our kind of, and that's that's intentional. Yeah, if I was, if another winery was saying that I'm always skeptical, like fucking 19s, what are you guys doing? Not selling wine?

Speaker 2: 42:43

but we're actually intentional with how we hold back a lot of wines now yeah so we'd like to if keep them in in bottle for a year, year and a half, sometimes two years, sometimes more, just like it's been a long road, but we've finally gotten there, because it's the best way to show those wines. Yeah, it's amazing, finally, you know. So that's really cool, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yeah, one quick thing. I mean, when I first started in the wine industry, I with you, uh, in the tasting room and, um, I didn't know jack shit about wine at all, but I was working the taste room, I served before and the one wine that opened my mind and showed me that there's a lot of depth and complexity in the world of wine was the grenache. Um, that was kind of like my aha bottle of wine where I was like, oh my god, like all I knew was like peanut warmer, low.

Speaker 1: 43:38

That's all I fucking knew yeah and when I was working in the tasting room. I would work on the weekdays when I first started and it'd be slow, and so I'd spend most of my time reading wine folly and trying to learn about the wines that I was, I didn't know about and I was trying to sell them.

Speaker 1: 43:52

Yeah, and that just broadened my horizons completely. And then I was like, oh my God, this is actually really interesting, like there's a lot of depth in all these wines, there's complexity. I need to find out more about wine, and that's when I asked you if I could do a harvest in in 2019.

Speaker 2: 44:11

And so yeah, man yeah, grenache is our yeah you know kind of house wine. Now I like to think so. I'm glad that that's the one, that I didn't know that. But that's cool and still it's still bomb yeah, man still 21 just came out. I mean it's amazing, it's fucking killer, yeah yeah, all right, man.

Speaker 1: 44:28

Well, hey guys check the show notes because we will have, um, all of carhartt family wines. Uh, their website, their socials in the show notes. So go there, buy some wine, join the wine club. Thanks for coming, chase. Absolutely, cheers, buddy. Thank you, dude, give you a little fist bump good to see you man cheers Bye.