#18: Rocky Pond's Liz Keyser: Women Winemakers

Rocky Pond Links
rockypondwinery.com
Instagram: @rockypondwinery

Bung Pod
bungpod.store

From the vine-laden landscapes of New York to the innovative wineries in Orondo, Washington, Liz Keyser's journey epitomizes the passion and grit that define the world of winemaking. Our latest chat bubbles with stories of her ascent, shattering the glass ceiling along the way. As we swirl through anecdotes and insights, you'll be captivated by her transformative experience in Santa Barbara's wine circles and her groundbreaking work at Rocky Pond. Liz is more than a guest; she's a beacon for the evolving role of women in this storied industry.

Raise a glass to the narrative behind each bottle as we reminisce about the 2022 vintage—a story of overcoming the whims of weather and the dance of phenology. The character of Rocky Pond's Stratasone blends owes much to the bold choice of whole cluster fermentation, showcasing how innovation can coax the unique personality of Grenache to the fore. From the challenging arrival in Chelan to the harmonious flavor profiles that emerged, this is a tale of resilience and creativity that's sure to enrich your appreciation for the fine craft of winemaking.

As we peek into the vineyard's future, your palate will tingle with anticipation. We're not just planting vines; we're cultivating experiences that blend the richness of fine wine with the warmth of unforgettable moments. Discover how varietals like Malbec thrive in Washington's short seasons and how co-fermented Syrah and Viognier foretell a tantalizing future for Rocky Pond's vision. Sit back, sip, and savor this episode where each story is as engaging as the wines we cherish.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Bung pod. Welcome back, wine Wonderboy. And we got Jazzy J. Jazzy, what is a bung? The hole of the barrel is called a bung hole. Inside the bung hole is called a bung. Wine with mayhem. That's what it's about. Welcome back to the bung pod. It's your boy, ian King, aka Wine Wonderboy, and we got my co-host with me, jazzy J. Say what's up, jazz, hi. Thank you guys for supporting the podcast. Love the support If you can leave a five-star feedback on whatever you're listening.

Speaker 3: 0:40

How great I am.

Speaker 1: 0:41

On how great we are. That would be wonderful. Also connect with us on Instagram, TikTok, ex-formerly Twitter, at OfficialBungPod. And. This podcast episode is very exciting because we have a special guest today we're in a special place today, we are in a special place. We are in Arundo Washington, washington. Um, why are you like this? Dude, I don't know I just get crazy on the mic. Um orondo, washington, um north central washington, at, uh, rocky pond, and we have the wine maker with us. We got liz kaiser, kaiser, kaiser I'm so sorry, all good, yeah, it's.

Speaker 2: 1:33

It's one of those last names. That it's okay, honestly yeah, I can be your kaiser.

Speaker 1: 1:38

I love it. I knew one of these days I was gonna botch someone's name and I just try to do my homework. I really do All good. Yeah, well, thank you for joining us. I think you're our first woman winemaker on the pod.

Speaker 3: 1:52

Yeah, you are actually Very cool, yeah, right on Hashtag women in wine.

Speaker 1: 1:57

What's up? I love that. That's so fun. It is kind of funny because my introduction into the wine industry in Santa Barbara there were in my circle there were a lot of women winemakers.

Speaker 2: 2:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:11

And I was hearing all this big push about women in wine and support women in wine. And usually when people have like a sort of campaign or something like that, it's usually because there's a lack of representation. But in my little circle I was just like why is this thing of campaign or something like that? It's usually because there's a lack of representation. And then, but in my little circle I was just like why is this thing? I mean, there's so many women in wine, like all my friends who are women, are like in winemakers and like one is, you know, has her own label, started her own label, and I was like what is this?

Speaker 1: 2:39

and then I went outside of the santa barbara little uh pocket I was in and I was like oh right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:47

Yeah, there's another world out there. Oh, that's so fun, I didn't even realize that.

Speaker 2: 2:52

I think that that's really one of like the really awesome benefits of working in a kind of I mean, obviously Santa Barbara is a nostalgic established wine growing region, but those kind of smaller wine growing regions there's so much more representation of really kind of who is drinking wine but also, um, people at all levels in in the winemaking process.

Speaker 1: 3:13

So yeah yeah I mean when I first started, like I was when I was super green to the whole industry, um, because wine is such like I, I don't know, growing up it's always been like a quote unquote like female products, like women drink wine, guys drink beer or liquor you know whatever. Um, and so I was like oh yeah, like it's a female product, so it's gotta be have a ton of females working there. And uh, that wasn't the case.

Speaker 2: 3:39

And um I that's life. I have learned True.

Speaker 3: 3:47

You live and then you learn and you adjust Exactly.

Speaker 1: 3:51

Yeah, so your background is a little interesting. Yeah, so you came up to Washington State. Are you from here?

Speaker 2: 3:59

No, I grew up in New York, actually.

Speaker 1: 4:02

New York, yeah, like New York, new York, new York, new York, wow.

Speaker 2: 4:04

So yeah, New York, New York.

Speaker 1: 4:05

New York New.

Speaker 2: 4:05

York, wow, well, not the city, but Westchester County. Okay, so I grew up in a town called Pelham, bordering the Bronx.

Speaker 3: 4:19

And agriculture wine scene was totally like a world removed from where I grew up. I'm like mind blown right now.

Speaker 2: 4:22

My parents were really fabulous wine collectors and it's always kind of been this background thing of like I don't know big holiday or family event. There's always like this ceremony around, like what wine we're gonna serve, type of thing. Yeah, and I just thought that that's how normal families were. Yeah, because, like you don't know until you know, and so I graduated from undergrad with just kind of this like insane amount of wine knowledge for a 20 year old kid, and um started working in a retail shop in New York called Zachy's and at that time it was one of the largest wine retailers for fine wine and um, you know, was able to grow on kind of the baseline knowledge that I already had. And there's only so much time that you can spend there before you're like, how is this actually made?

Speaker 1: 5:12

And so I um yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:13

How old were you when you started that 21.?

Speaker 1: 5:16

Okay, yeah, so just like fresh out the gate yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:18

And so I mean I graduated in kind of a crummy economy and so it was like everybody wanted to um, I don't know find themselves at that moment Right, like it's post 2008 people who are like laid off, especially in like in my area of the world where it was like wall street shut down basically.

Speaker 2: 5:38

Right and so um started working at this wine retailer and, you know, started working and started working more on the junior buying side, and so was able to have contact with winemakers as they came into our store and really kind of bend their ear for a little bit of time and finally found somebody who would take me under their wing and invited me out for my first harvest in 2011. And from there really quickly organized my life to no longer be in wine retail. So I applied to a bunch of different post-bac and um analogy programs across the country and actually found my way back to New York from California and um found myself in the Finger Lakes for my enology degree.

Speaker 1: 6:27

Yeah so.

Speaker 2: 6:28

I worked for Cornell's extension office with our Finger Lakes scrape program, so learning, you know, technical enology studies, but also having my hand on the vit side of things, and from there was really just ready to explore more and kind of I wanted to just work in as many different places as possible to try to like really round things out. And I think at that time I was pretty naive and was like, yeah, I'm gonna start my own mind label at 22 did not happen, obviously but it brought me to oregon, and then, and then Australia, and then um that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, where'd you go in Australia?

Speaker 2: 7:08

McLaren Vale okay, yeah so I worked for Hardy Centauri, which is a super, super large production facility. Be like saying you work for EJ Gallo um, here in the states and kind of from there stepped down in production levels, because that was to me a little bit of the soul of winemaking had been lost in the sauce.

Speaker 2: 7:27

When it's like you know, just yeah that big containers of grapes coming in every day, just kind of like going to direct press, and so um kind of honed in my my search for a full-time position and found myself in Napa, um, and was hired by Hall Family Wines.

Speaker 2: 7:46

And that's where I would meet my really good friend and mentor in the wine industry, Steve Levesque, who was eventually hired by Rocky Pond as consulting winemaker, and so I spent five years kind of rising the ranks in the winemaking team at Hall and at that point in time just really wanted more creative license but also ownership.

Speaker 2: 8:08

I was in a role where I was a production winemaker, essentially like executing the creative vision of somebody else, and just really wanted that opportunity to play with more different varietals than what we were doing. Yeah, but also just kind of like try it on for size a little bit. And um, yeah, everything kind of came together when rocky pond was also um, thinking that they would grow their winemaking team and maybe restructure it, and so, um, I was chirping and steve's ear being like I think I'm ready, can you like keep your ear to the ground? And I'm not necessarily attached to Napa or Sonoma, I think I really want to like go outside the box on this. And he was like sit tight, there's this really cool thing happening in Washington that I'm a part of and, um, just fly up for a weekend. You and you and Matt jump on a plane, go meet the Dufan horse and John Ware. And then it was literally like three days here in Aranda and we were signing papers, resigning our jobs, figuring out how to, how we're going to move to Washington.

Speaker 3: 9:11

So yeah, well, it's such a great family to work for. So it's not.

Speaker 2: 9:15

It's it's fabulous. And when you look at the broader team that they've assembled, with John Ware with his you know 20 some odd year with Quiltsita Creek, and then, um, you have Holly and Danny, and this um really just like awesome female led team um here at the winery and it was really cool.

Speaker 1: 9:35

Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2: 9:36

it was really inspiring and got to hire my team too, and so I have, like this really awesome smart assistant winemaker who's from Chelan and um, a local girl from Waterville, as our seller lead and we just we get stuff done. So it's fun. Yeah, oh, that's so fun.

Speaker 1: 9:53

I love that. It's a cool story, are you sure you?

Speaker 3: 9:55

don't need anybody else.

Speaker 2: 9:59

Well, we're growing, but not quite yet we're pretty well staffed um, awesome.

Speaker 3: 10:06

So when did you come to chelan? What year was that?

Speaker 2: 10:11

february of 2022, gosh, it's already been that long, yeah yeah, so I inherited the um kind of unblended components of 2020 and 2021, assembled those blends for for rocky pond, and then 2022 was my first vintage here.

Speaker 3: 10:27

From start, to finish oh, that's awesome. That was a good year. Oh, it was a brutal year oh yeah, that was a rough year. At the end there was a really early cold.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Oh yeah, like november, like fourth, or something started dumping snow, yeah that was really dumb and it took forever to get out of that kind of like gross winter mode.

Speaker 2: 10:44

So we just lived in like monotone colors down here for like ever.

Speaker 2: 10:49

It was May before things like started to turn green and I'm a little bit of like a phenology nerd, and so I was tracking things against the historic records and we stayed at like a two to three week pace behind historic records until we hit october. And october was a godsend because it was four weeks of just gorgeous weather well, it was so pretty and then snowed basically halloween and we were like, okay, gotta get it all in. Oh yeah, I moved up here, april 22.

Speaker 1: 11:22

Yeah, I moved up here april 22 and then the first week I was here, um, we were gonna go down for a conference in tri-cities and it was like april and it was dumping snow like early in the morning and I was like what the fuck is going on here? Like I was just so it's like a normal life. Yeah, yeah, we're like oh, it's cool and then like living in santa barbara for like 11 years I was like, oh my god, I gotta get carhartt jacket out, I gotta get like.

Speaker 1: 11:49

I was all layered up and bundled up, yep, for the car ride down and then it all melted off and it was like 50 degrees whatever in the afternoon and I didn't have like anything else and so I was just sweating. I got taking off layers but I was like sweating at this conference and I was like I should have dressed way differently because everyone here is just like in a Patagonia jacket.

Speaker 3: 12:11

I was going to say, then all you need is a sweatshirt or something.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Maybe a light layer over that. Yeah, and it's like, oh shit.

Speaker 3: 12:17

All right, so we should introduce the wines we have today, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:31

Do yeah, yeah. Do you want to talk about the rosé, or do you want to just?

Speaker 3: 12:33

launch into the red to me, let's.

Speaker 2: 12:34

We'll just skip forward, let's go we were just drinking a rosé um granache, sram or vedra, yeah, yeah, it was delicious. And then this is it's um sibling wine, also stratosone. So for rocky pond, anything that falls in the Rhone family and is a blend, we give the name Stratasone.

Speaker 1: 12:47

Where does that come from I?

Speaker 3: 12:48

was going to say.

Speaker 2: 12:49

So Stratasone is actually a rock formation and Dani, the daughter of the Doofenhorses a little bit of a geology nerd. That was one of her favorite classes in undergrad and when we were naming these wines she really loved the name Stratastone and so it's kind of a reference to the rocks where we actually grow our Grenache, syrah and Mervet tends to be the more like pervasively rocky sections of our vineyards and so, yeah, it all just kind of like ties in pretty neatly and, um, so this is going to be a almost 34% Grenache. Um, we did 30% whole cluster on on the Grenache and then, um, squeaky clean on the, the Marvette and the Syrah. For the remaining, you know, 60 ish parts.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Yeah, people listening. Um, why do you do whole cluster? What's the point in that?

Speaker 2: 13:42

Um, um, yeah, so whole cluster can kind of bring out a little bit more of like a spicy character. Um, depending on the, the level of inclusion, it can start to shift your ph with a potassium blocker and so, um, it's a good way to kind of eke out a little bit more spice and texture out of um, out of varietals, and I think like it's such a traditional practice in the rhone. But when I inherited some of the wines from rocky pond I really I loved the texture of the grenache but I just wanted a little bit more than kind of like it was a little bit in the pocket of kind of like adult kool-aid and I was like we need to funk this up.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Yeah, and so whole cluster is a really easy lever to pull to kind of like get you more on that earthy mineral spicy drive. So played around with it because the fruit was really clean and pretty low risk to be able to do that.

Speaker 3: 14:34

That's awesome, yeah, so who wants to give the tasting notes here?

Speaker 1: 14:39

Oh, let's do this one I do it all the time.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Oh goodness.

Speaker 1: 14:43

If you want to break down the lines for us um, yeah, we generally do, well, not he.

Speaker 3: 14:50

Ian does.

Speaker 1: 14:51

Uh, well, explains the color for our listeners, the notes that he gets I basically quickly go down the grid essentially okay but like not fully, I don't really give, like you know but we want to explain to our listeners Medium, medium, minus. I don't do that, no, yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:08

It's a quick like tasting note for those who are listening so that they can. If it sounds interesting to them, they can go to your website and purchase it. Yeah, or your tasting room, depending on where they're at. Okay.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Also check the show notes. All the links to Rocky Pond for purchasing wines and the Wine Club link will be there.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Yeah, yeah. So 2022 is a pretty cool vintage for us, right, and so for me all of the wines across the board in 2022 have this fingerprint of just a little bit more of that cooler tone, a little bit more peaked acidity, and I really dig the tension and that kind of like palate feel when you have a little bit higher acidity. And so this is going to be a pretty traditional blend about 34% Grenache, 33% Morved, 33% Syrah, and on the nose I get a lot of like super spicy character, a little bit of that kind of like whole cluster greenness. Um, and then on the palate, I I always find with um like GSM blends, they tend to fall into the more like medium bodied uh category this one, I would put in that that category as well um, I get a lot of kind of like spicy bramble fruit and get a bite to it.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Yeah, this um kind of like mineral kick too. We we farm in the rocky reach, ava, but also lake chelan, and this blend is going to be 100 sourced from our Rocky Reach vineyards. And for me there's just always this anchoring of kind of like a mineral undertow to those wines.

Speaker 3: 16:45

I love that, yeah, which goes right into. I want to hear all about your vineyards.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Yes.

Speaker 3: 16:51

Yeah, yeah, so I do have photos, so like we can always post those for people to look. But give us the breakdown.

Speaker 2: 17:00

Sure.

Speaker 2: 17:00

So I guess the down and dirty history of Rocky Pond.

Speaker 2: 17:05

The Doofenhors family purchased their original acreage here in Aranda when it was still part of the larger Columbia Valley AVA, and as they were developing this stretch of land, they engaged the services of two really key people Dick Boucher, who's a revered grower here in Washington State, to kind of give the thumbs up that yeah, this is going to be good land to plant for vinifera, and then they also engaged the services of Dr Kevin Pogue from Whitman College, who is a soil scientist, a soil scientist and when he came here to review the soil pit analysis, he discovered that we are actually on a fundamentally different bedrock layer than the balance of the Columbia Valley.

Speaker 2: 17:47

And so Columbia Valley is going to be this big stretch of basalt as your basement layer and we have this really tight band of quartz silica that's from about Wenatchee up to as far as, like I don't know, lone pine fruit stand. So sorry, sorry for the the local reference, but I don't know where else to say like 10 miles, that way, right yeah and then the boundary is really the, the plateaus to um the east and the west of us.

Speaker 2: 18:19

So it rises from about 700 feet in elevation on the Columbia River to about 1,100 feet in elevation. So before you get up to the plateaus in Waterville it's already flipped back to the Columbia Valley and so really really tight band that also has this really awesome heat sink to it and so we can be anywhere from 10 to 12 degrees warmer from our soil probes than our vineyards on Lake Chelan. So that kind of steered them in the direction of being predominantly planted to red varietals here on the river. Kind of helps us get a little bit more maturity, a little bit more phenolic ripeness.

Speaker 2: 18:56

And I think it's a little bit of a misnomer to classify Chelan or Rocky Reach as cool climate regions. They're just fundamentally not, but they are is they're compressed growing seasons and so you have to really be diligent about your your viticultural inputs and having that a little bit extra heat summation here really it kind of it helps push things along a little bit more um. So yeah, that the soil profile is is really awesome, well draining um mixture of that basement layer of quartz silica, followed by this unsorted river cobble that's as small as like a tiny pebble that you would see in a fish tank, all the way up to like these boulders that are the size of a gadgeta, and so that kind of is the the delicious layer cakes that we're we're growing yeah, yeah, so, um and so when did uh rocky reach become its own ava in?

Speaker 2: 19:52

2022, so and wasn't it the 22nd ava or something it was was the 20th AVA yeah, so I think that there's maybe like six or seven additional AVAs who are on the queue with the TTB but have not been approved yet. So I think we're still like the new kid on the block.

Speaker 3: 20:10

I love that. Yeah, oh, how fun yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:13

Oh, that's awesome. So you're able to grow. Okay, so in Lake Chelan for those listening that don't know the area it's pretty difficult sometimes to grow Grenache and Morvedra and some of those. Rhone varieties into full maturity and ripeness yeah. But you're able to do it here which is not too far away from Chelan but is geologically very different Mm-hmm, which is not too far away from Chelan but is geologically very different.

Speaker 2: 20:43

So are you seeing any issue with getting those into full ripeness? No, and I think that is the benefit of being down here on the river, In the same way that Lake Chelan acts as a moderating body for the Lake Chelan AVA the river is also a moderating body for us too, and so get some because your vineyards are like like a river on the river on the river yeah we're looking at it right now and everyone.

Speaker 3: 21:05

It's a big river uh it's not one of these small little creeks that you see, sometimes we're gonna go down the river and float.

Speaker 1: 21:12

It's a big ass river, people boat on it, so yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 21:17

Yeah, so you know, vines always like a, like really primo view, um, so they get waterfront property here, waterfront property and lake chelan, and it must be nice, I know right, yeah I love to be a vine in my um, you know next life reincarnation, yeah, that's what I was looking for, yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 21:42

So how many great varieties do you guys grow here?

Speaker 2: 21:45

so we have 28 um different varietals under vine. Not all of it comes to rocky pond, so kind of like simplified on in the rocky reach we're doing predominantly cab, merlot, malbec for the bordeaux family and then traditional suite of gsm. On the rhone side we do have, uh, viennier, marsan and roussan, as well as savion blanc um grown here in the rocky reach. And then when you get to the clocheval vineyard, that's when we kind of in chelan and that's in chelan we open up to have aromatic varietals like riesling and covert streaminer, pinot gris, sparkling base wine, so chardonnay, pinot noir, pinot meunier and then syrah, and so all in we have um this, this kind of like classic washington mix of the crispy white varietals all the way through to the sweet of Bordeaux.

Speaker 1: 22:41

So yeah, all right, let's take a break for a minute, because Jazzy has got something to tell you.

Speaker 3: 22:47

Did you know we do have extra episodes on Patreon and you can only get these for $5. What, yeah Christ, I know Dope, so go to Patreon. Link is in the description of the episode and subscribe $5. You're supporting us and you're getting to learn more about the wine industry. Let's go, woo, all right, all right, all right, guess what? I think Ian has something to tell us.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I do, I do. We got some merch going on right now. We got hoodies. Say what we got handbags.

Speaker 3: 23:25

No way.

Speaker 1: 23:26

We got stickers, what we got. Tank tops right now for the summertime, ooh Hell. Yeah, we got some windbreakers too, oh shit. So go to bungpodstore and get your bungpod merch, yeah. So I've been on this campaign for a new grape variety in Washington state.

Speaker 3: 23:48

Oh, yes, I'm here for this, yeah, and I want to know what you.

Speaker 1: 23:52

I want to know your thoughts on this. Okay, so one thing I've seen is that washington state is lacking a really good, complex um lighter red grape variety just like how oregon is, like they're known for their pinot noir sure yeah, and we don't know, not to people that you know, make pinot out here. I'm not sure if you guys are or not, but um I every Pinot I've tried in Washington state has been very mid.

Speaker 3: 24:23

Yeah, you know it's like it's.

Speaker 1: 24:29

I get it's very one dimensional, a lot of times very simple. They're like just cranberry or just cherry and then that's it for the most part. There's been a few that I'm like, okay, this is a little bit interesting, but my thing is like I think Gamay would be an amazing grape variety in Washington State and I've had some from like Sincline from the Gorge.

Speaker 2: 24:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:48

And theirs is. It's light, it's complex, it's more like a fleurie and I just like, absolutely love those wines and it's definitely my own um passion to for people to make a good.

Speaker 2: 25:06

I mean, I, I love Gamay as well. I actually think that, um, down here where we are at the production facility, where we have this like close to foot deep of sand and um silt, it might be really compelling to to put, uh gamay on this, but it would also thrive on the stones that we have up at double d. So, yeah, um yeah, cool, cool concept, I think. For us, though, what we're looking to do is we we started off with this huge, wide array of varietals, trying to, like, see what would work, and now we're in that kind of more taper and focus mode, and so I don't know if we'll be replanting any but I would love to see because I'm not asking.

Speaker 3: 25:46

I love you watching all the ones that you make and you would make a great one no, but I think like it's not much to ask, yeah, come on granache.

Speaker 2: 25:55

To me, though, is kind of like that spicy, lighter red where it's growing, here and so yeah, no more power to you to grow some.

Speaker 1: 26:04

Yeah, grenache was my first, uh, love, yeah For great varieties, just because, like when I first started, all I knew about was like Merlot Cab and Pinot Noir and that was it.

Speaker 3: 26:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:19

And everybody does. Yeah, and then when I started at carhartt um, which people can watch the last episode that we did with them um number 16, they had a grenache and it was a lighter kind of style but it was very unique and complex and it had the little sea spray um thing that santa barbara wines a lot of times are a little closer to the ocean house and it was just so interesting I was like okay, this is what wine can be. It's not just like, um, you know, columbia Crest or whatever that I grew up my my mom.

Speaker 1: 26:49

I grew up watching my mom drink Um and.

Speaker 1: 26:52

I'm like oh so wine is a little more complex and this and then that's what started the rabbit hole into making this a career, into making wine a career, um, and then I was broke and I still am.

Speaker 1: 27:07

And then, um, I was going to my wine education process from w set three and then also a certified specialist of wines, and I had to buy so many wines, um, and my friend is a wine buyer and I went through him for pretty much everything and I was like, look, I want a good Burgundy, but I'm broke and my friend told me that Beaujolais was the best thing, best you know, bang for your buck for, like, quote unquote, burgundy, I guess, um, and then after that just fell in love. I was like this is the shit, this is what. This is what I'm about, yeah, so like, I've had a lot of gamay, uh, domestic gamay in santa barbara and also sonoma pac, small, makes a great, uh, has a couple great gamays over there. He also makes trousseau noir and I also. I also love that, love the very light body. Basically, like you know, my friend calls it the juice box.

Speaker 1: 28:06

He's like I'm on the juice box craze, you know, but that's more kind of natural wine. Quote, unquote, whatever that term is, but yeah, anyways. Yeah. So I've been on a gamay kick wanting people in washington to plant gamay and make a good one yeah, because I think it could be a great great I think you can outshine pino noir in washington state.

Speaker 3: 28:27

That's all I'm saying it's not much to ask for not much to ask for.

Speaker 1: 28:31

But yeah, I know I love what you guys are doing um you guys are also growing temperanillo here.

Speaker 2: 28:37

So we did have Tempranillo at one point in time. That was grafted over to Savion Blanc, oh, okay, and yeah, the Musque clone of Savion Blanc at our Double D Vineyard. So there is this section of the vineyard where the rows are running east-west instead of north-s, northwest, southwest or southeast, and, um, it was really challenging to get uniform ripeness because you have a certain amount of sunlight hours on one side of the canopy and the others wasn't being exposed properly, and so, um kind of came in and grafted that away from any of the red varietals that were over there and I think that the Tempranillo at the time was really only kind of going into a rosé program. So it would be cool to develop a different site with a different aspect for Tempranillo here, because I think that that could be a really viable varietal for this area.

Speaker 3: 29:35

But yeah, what's your favorite grape to play with?

Speaker 2: 29:40

Ooh, I am having so much fun playing around with malbec okay, actually, I think for me, I love malbecs. Well, they're so fun for me, coming from napa, like malbec doesn't ever get its fair shake there, and yeah the styles that you get domestically.

Speaker 2: 29:55

In napa, at least what I was exposed to, there's these just like fat overripe over oak to death type of expressions, and so I never really kind of like gave it its fair shake until I moved here and that was one of like the most delicious surprises is there's really gorgeous complexity but also some cool tension, and I think that you know like we were talking about. This is a compressed growing season. Having more of those early ripening Bordeaux varietals really kind of like saves the bacon when you need to do some blending on. It really does, yeah. So I think, yeah, malbec has been super fun to work with.

Speaker 2: 30:35

And then I'm having a field day with playing around with Sarag and you know I didn't. I didn't make it for six years. It was my time in Australia where I was making sarah, so yeah, um so yeah it's, it's been really fun just kind of being able to, like you know, be super creative and also explore a bunch of different varietals.

Speaker 3: 30:56

So what are you excited about? Like the future, like what Rocky Pond's doing and the future that they're pursuing. I mean they have a lot going on.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Yeah, yeah. So I think, um, david and Michelle have this passion for entertainment as well as, obviously, wine, but for them it's it's like setting a table. It needs to come with fabulous food, really great music, a place to wine and dine and then stay. And I think that, like you know, we're we're all from this area, we know how underserved, you know fine hotels are in this area and so they had this vision to not only um own wine label but build it and they will come type of concept for here.

Speaker 2: 31:44

So in development is a 60-room boutique hotel on our property, as well as fractional ownership homes and actually this summer and you guys should come down for some of the concerts are unveiling a um 500 person music venue at yeah, that's so. It's really fun yeah so we have kind of like some of the the local faves here, like whiskey trail, coming in, but then we also, you know, the hope is to be able to draw some bigger entertainment too yeah, yeah, well, and it's just again.

Speaker 3: 32:18

It's like, uh, the gorge, beautiful venue, great, like you have the river right there, you have everything all right there. But this is like more like bougie, I like more like billionaire cowboy, you know what I mean. It's very like yellowstone vibes.

Speaker 2: 32:49

I know that well because it's like super rustic right, but there is this like gorgeous, pristine, untouched nature about it. Um, yeah, so it's.

Speaker 3: 32:58

It's very little slice of heaven, very agricultural and we have the wine, so obviously they're good, they're bougie, but then throw a little boutique hotel word I do, I love. It might be my favorite word um and then also to have a music venue. What else could you ask for?

Speaker 2: 33:18

yeah, I mean it's so when I was being recruited by Rocky Pond this was all still just kind of like a dream for them, and so I I stepped into Rocky Pond at a time where the foundation was poured but no building was there. And here we are two years later and it's like unveiled. And every time you talk to David and Michelle, the vision has grown yet again, and so it's really cool to see just their kind of like attack and approach on on getting this done and it's awesome to see there's goals, because there comes a point where a lot of people will say, oh, this is my goal, and they come close or hit it and then that's it, like they don't continue their goals.

Speaker 3: 34:00

I'm kind of going through that phase right now of like I, you know, graduated college I said I'd move to Chelan, I'd work at a winery. Well, I've done that. So what's my next goal? And to keep goals going is huge and I feel like some people just they get comfortable. Yeah. That's the biggest thing, they get comfortable and yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:24

Well, I think that that's like what's so exciting about where we are and where we're farming right now. The general consensus that I get is, you know, chelan is going through this almost Renaissance where people are thinking about viticulture in a more serious way, and that's not to not pay respect to kind of like the, the legends who started us here, right. But there's this kind of like younger surge that's coming in with fresh ideas and there's the ability to really kind of execute and get after it and be super creative, and so it's fun to be in that kind of headspace where everybody is like pushing each other a little bit to be just incrementally better and just kind of working on moving the goalpost.

Speaker 1: 35:06

So yeah, that was kind of that's the one thing I thought about when I was. I did one harvest here, like in 2019.

Speaker 2: 35:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:13

And that was like one thing that me and, uh, Charlie Liebecker from Curtis really talked about. And it was like if we can, like move the needle and like encourage each other and push each other to be better, than like this would explode, like this whole Valley would explode.

Speaker 3: 35:28

Yeah, absolutely In a good way. Yeah, no, in a great way. Yeah, I mean, even I was talking to someone actually today where they brought up going down to Walla Walla and they're like like it was so unfortunate because they were so spread out and all this stuff and you could barely find it. But I feel like we do a really good job of supporting each other and pushing each other to be better.

Speaker 3: 35:48

yeah, um, you know, when people come into the winery, it's not the attitude of oh, I'm the best one, why would you go anywhere else, yeah, but it's the fact of like, let me tell, like, I will grab our, like Lakeland Valley wine book. That's like here's where you should go and I like highlight like 15 of them and like, go to these destinations like or like, try to keep it in the same area where they're staying or driving.

Speaker 3: 36:15

And I think we're all trying to push each other to be better, but it also is a group effort, yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:22

And I think, like celebrating the diversity too is super important. You know at some point in time like this could have been a different conversation, where everybody is just making one Syrah and we're just patting themselves on the back for like growing this awesome thing.

Speaker 3: 36:38

But no, you see people playing around with, like maybe, a gamay noir or you know diversity and grape varieties exactly, yeah, sorry also in the future, but also but you know, but also different, like winemaking styles and you know, like different influences for everybody here like the sandstone and the concretes, and people are playing with different things, and even like putting it in the tank for a while and then into the concrete for a while. You know people are playing and I love that. Yeah, get out of your comfort zone.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:14

You don't need to be like Billy Joe down the street.

Speaker 1: 37:24

Yeah, so what's the other one that you brought? Yeah, so the first one let's say it again so people know is a stratostone? Yeah, 2022 stratostone red grenache, more vedra and syrah gsm beautiful and then the next one is the studio Sarah.

Speaker 2: 37:39

Yeah, so you know, kind of keeping in line with our conversation about like being super creative and hopefully pushing the boundaries, Um, one of the things that kind of keeps me going year after year is just this genuine intellectual curiosity and, um, fortunately Rocky pond has given me pretty wide berth to to go after whatever curiosity I have at the moment.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Also, like I know, like cause we had has behind the scenes tour and you talked about that a little bit and I just love it when, when companies do that and we'll just give free reign or like I trust you go ahead, play with it, and so I'm really stoked that you're in that position.

Speaker 3: 38:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:21

It makes me very happy.

Speaker 2: 38:23

No, I mean, it's so satisfying and it's totally what I was searching for when I was in my more kind of like corporate-y winemaking job, and so it's super fun to kind of like step into this role. And at Koshval Vineyard, our vineyard on Lake Chelan, we grow Syrah at three different elevations and the highest elevation planting has never traditionally made a blend or a single varietal wine for Rocky Pond, and so it gave me five to six tons of Syrah to really be creative and playful with.

Speaker 3: 38:59

And that's a lot of grapes right there.

Speaker 2: 39:00

It's a lot of grapes that that weren't doing anything for us, right? And so, um, what's the worst case scenario? We screw it up and it goes to the bulk market, while it was going to go there anyways, so yeah let's play.

Speaker 2: 39:14

And so, um yeah, when, when we were picking it 2022, super compressed growing season it was a mad dash to get everything in at the end, and we were picking Viognier at the same time that we were picking Cab. It was the weirdest vintage on earth in that regard. So I remember that day when we brought in this five tons of Syrah from the age block there and we had also brought in close to like seven tons of V&A. Well, we have a three ton press and I think there would have been mutiny on my hands if I was like guys, we're going to fire that bad boy up for one more press load today.

Speaker 3: 39:57

I've been in that position where someone looks at me and I'm like, oh, so today's the day you want to die, exactly.

Speaker 2: 40:05

So we were already slated to do a small amount of of co-fermentation with this. But then I was like you know, this maps out to where I can have a really cool playful like concept here. So we we did um four tons of Syrah into the tank with one ton of uh whole cluster VNA, more, more or less. You know like it roughs out to be 75% Syrah, 25% whole cluster VNA, and um did not have high hopes for it but wanted to learn a lot about kind of like. If we push the boundaries on whole cluster here, if we push the boundaries on co-fermentation, what is that going to look like? And it very quickly became Jill and Carly's and my like favorite ferment of the vintage and again a credit to the Doofenhorst in just kind of like having faith in what we're doing here. They were like well, if you love it so much, let's bottle it. And I was like thank you.

Speaker 3: 41:03

That's so exciting. You go home and cry and you're like I.

Speaker 2: 41:08

Finally did it. I mean, and not that we don't have that same amount of like creativity and like passion for the other wines we do.

Speaker 3: 41:15

It was just like one of those happy little moments, yeah and that's really like all right, like I don't know what the outcome is going to be here but, let's just go for it, yeah, um, so why'd you do whole cluster in?

Speaker 2: 41:28

that. So again, I, you know, would have had like a mile mutant on my hand if it was not just simple as like we're putting wine or grapes into a tank. Today, um and so we we were going to do whole cluster on the syrah, but um had already de-stemmed the majority of it and so decided to have the whole cluster come in with the vinaigre. And because that vinaigre was kind of like sitting out there, it was probably closer to like 23, 23 and a half bricks okay, the rachis had fully lignified and so when I was chomping on explain what a brick is to our viewers.

Speaker 3: 42:03

Sure, yeah, it's um also lignification and rachis so.

Speaker 2: 42:08

So bricks is kind of like the measurement of sugar density of your, of your wine, and um 23 and a half bricks is kind of on the medium high side for a white varietal but on the kind of like lower side for a red.

Speaker 2: 42:23

And rachis is just a fancy word for the stem, yeah, and so, as you're going through the growing season and your vines are maturing and coming into that really yummy stage, the green tissue switches over to woody tissue, and so that's what lignification is. And, um, if you have a bunch of green stems, they can exacerbate some of the more stringent side of, um, your tannin profiles. And so it was important for me, in a cooler year like that, to not give any more green to the fermenters, but I did want that spice and I wanted that texture that can come from it, and so, um, it was just one of those things where, like, the stars aligned and it was meant to be. It was meant to be, so that's what we did.

Speaker 2: 43:09

Um, yeah, and so for me, I get this like crazy high-toned aromatics on this wine. It's kind of like are you a viennier, are you a syrah? Like, are you a Viennese, are you a Syrah? Like what are you? But also this really cool, like spicy, chewy, almost like tea-like tannin on the palate, and I think it's like we also produce more traditional Syrah, which is going to be the more muscular and powerful side of things, and so these side by side are just polar opposites. I hate using words like feminine or like masculine, right but.

Speaker 3: 43:44

But you know, if you want to like, you know I this is a really delicate feminine wine, but it still has that power right, yeah, it's very smooth on the palate and then it's just like oh yeah, it's got a little kick to it, baby I'm a little bit of a texture hound, like I love that for my red wines.

Speaker 2: 44:04

I want that kind of smooth and silky, suave thing yeah I like a little kick of acidity at the end. I want to feel like, okay, these tannins are well integrated, it's giving structure, but it's not being like super drying and kind of like killing your palate and um on my whites.

Speaker 1: 44:22

I'm like more acid yeah, I'm kind of an acid head as just as a yeah, acid head acid head yeah yeah, yeah, yeah but, like I don't know, when I took my w set three up in Napa, I was very picky in which, because when I was working at a wine shop under a wine buyer, I was helping with selecting certain wines for the wine shop and so I'd meet with reps and there's this one rep who came in and she was like, oh, you're going to love this tasting. It's all retail $150 plus all Napa wines. And I was like okay, we'll see what happens. And then I didn't like any of them and she just was a little upset or not upset. She was just like taken back. But also we in our demographic that was in Santa Barbara they just didn't buy a lot of Napa wines either, and so it doesn't really matter if I like them or not, cause I still have to talk to the wine bar about purchasing them for the wine shop If I think it would be a good thing to curate the shop for.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Right.

Speaker 1: 45:29

Um, but I just didn't like any of them and cause.

Speaker 3: 45:33

They're all the same.

Speaker 1: 45:34

It's like you know like don't get me wrong, I love Napa. Um, there's certain wineries that I absolutely adore, so, um, it's like frog sleep and height cellar big fans of those people. Um, when I went to my W set three, I took, did like a whole weekend of it, you know, cause I've never been there before and that was my first time. So I was like, okay, cool, so let's just do.

Speaker 1: 45:57

A whole weekend I bounced around a bunch of different wineries and it was really fun because, like I don't necessarily, it's just my personal, um, experience, my personal opinion, is like I just don't really like overripe and over-oaked wines. And that's what a lot of people who go to Napa, who have a lot of money and they just build up this big thing and they're like, okay, cool, and it's all very like systematic and very formulaic and like I want this style of wine, like, okay, cool, let's pump it up, yeah that's what's yeah, robert Parker likes or whatever and like certain you know um, but there's also a ton of like amazing gems in Napa as well, and people are growing things other than cap yes um, um, it's.

Speaker 1: 46:42

I mean it's mostly cab, but it's, you know, yeah, it really is. Yeah, yeah, but, like I've, I really gravitate towards some of those more kind of uh I don't want to say French or Bordeaux like cabs that are made in more delicate style, that are like a chorus and Matthias and vibe.

Speaker 1: 47:00

Yeah, exactly, yeah, I love them yeah absolutely, and so that's what I was like. Okay, this opened my mind a little bit more to to like the Napa area and like it's just because I don't like huge wines, but I think they also have a place on a dinner table as well.

Speaker 2: 47:15

So yeah, no, for sure. I mean, where I was before, in Napa, we had, um, we sourced fruit from 16 of the different, 18 different AVAs in Napa, in Napa County, and we quite seriously made 12 different expressions of Cabernet, and it was at some point in time like four by four, four by four, four by four. I need some acid, I need some like life and brevity, and so it was like it's yeah it's been fun working with like cab of a different style here in.

Speaker 1: 47:47

Washington. So carbonic carbonate? No, just kidding. No, no, that'd be crazy yeah. Um well do we want to wrap this up and bring it on to the Patreon? Patreon yeah, let's do it. Thank you guys so much for listening. Liz, you are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for inviting us here or letting us crash your spot and the tour, and you are very knowledgeable and amazing so everything, all the social links will be in the show notes, so it'll be the first thing that you see in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 48:25

So go there um all the links to their socials and also the website and wine club. So go there and click on that.

Speaker 3: 48:30

Yeah, go to Rocky Pond's website and visit their tasting rooms Super cute.

Speaker 1: 48:35

Yeah, they have tasting room in Wooden Creek, woodinville area, and then they're also in, like Chelan, is there another one?

Speaker 3: 48:41

Is that Leavenworth? Leavenworth as well, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:44

So go go check it out, Check the wines out. They're amazing.

Speaker 2: 48:47

Yeah, thank you guys. Thanks for having me oh shoot, I need to sorry.

Speaker 3: 48:52

I messed this up.

Speaker 1: 48:54

I can't cheers an empty glass, that's just like.

Speaker 3: 48:57

That's a mistake. Cheers, hey you, now that I have your attention and you've listened to this wonderful podcast that we had to offer, we'd like you to scroll down. And what? What are they going to do when they scroll down? Ian, scroll down and give us some feedback.

Speaker 1: 49:24

Rate us on your podcast platform ideally five stars, and if you would give us some critical feedback, you can DM us on Instagram at OfficialBungPod. Let's hear it, let's go. It is only two of us writing the show, two of us producing the show. It's me, Ian King, Jasmine Shattuck and the lovely Becca Hines. As our producers and our writers are. Me, ian King.

Speaker 3: 50:01

And Jasmine Chaddick.

Speaker 1: 50:03

Let's go.

Speaker 3: 50:04

Let's go.