Ep 6 How to Find the Right Church: What should you consider? Artwork

The Common Life - Podcast

A practical podcast about a variety of topics which are common to life from a Christian perspective. Our hosts often think very differently to each other yet are able to arrive at solutions that work. We are a husband and wife team who have been married for 22 years, and are currently surviving the parenting of 5 strong boys while leading a local Church with all of it's challenges. We are generally known for our strong convinctions and authenticity with a focus on figuring out ways to successfully get the job done.

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The Common Life - Podcast

Ep 6 How to Find the Right Church: What should you consider?

October 02, 2024 • Daniel and Michelle Abou-zeid • Season 1 • Episode 6

In this episode Daniel and Michelle discuss their experience with trying to find a new Church to attend. Considerations such as gospel-centered preaching, friendships, biblical worship and style, relational welcome, church leadership, consumer mentality vs contribution mentality... what is the right balance and so much more.

We have a Reformed Evangelical approach however what is discussed can be applied uniquely to different settings. The discussion could also be used to help reevaluate someone's current Church attendance.

https://linktr.ee/thecommonlifepodcast

Finding a Church to attend final.mp3

Transcript

Well, get ready, because a common life podcast is about to become your go to source for inspiration and couragement and the tools you need to navigate life's challenges.

Each episode will discuss real life issues, offering insights and advice and actionable steps based on our vast experience. Let's get into it.

Well, welcome to your Common life podcast. You are with Daniel and Michelle Abizaid. Again, back again. It's been a while.

It's been a couple. Of months has. Been thankfully, not much has happened between now and.

Then no, not much at all.

Just moved across the country.

Across the vast country, numerous states that Australia is, yeah, yeah, we've gone from Victoria down the bottom, please.

Yeah. Sunny, beautiful Queensland. Sunny, beautiful Queensland in Harvey Bay. Yeah. Mind you, it is sunny, beautiful and scary. We still haven't acclimatised.

Yet, OK, why is it scary?

Well, because every time I go down the side of the house, I think there's a snake there is. I mean, tonight the neighbours kids came over looking for a dog bone or a dog toy and threw over the over the fence. But it was dark here at 5:30 at night and I nearly. You're my kind toward ohh lucky you.

Wow. Yeah, fair enough. I I would admit. It can get a little bit scarier. We're acclimatising. We're meeting the wildlife like it's also pretty cute when there's like Kangaroos jumping down the street. It actually, it actually does happen here rather than the burbs. Back in Victoria where you didn't really see a whole lot of wildlife.

Yeah, we'll get used to. We'll have. Now. Exactly. Yeah, they're amazing. Yeah. And everyone overseas thinks that the Kangaroos are just everywhere in Australia equally, but they're not. They're a bit more concentrated up these ways. So every single one of them. But what are?

Not. They're all in Harvey Bay. We doing today? Well, what we're doing today is sharing a little bit of our, I guess our current experience that we're living because we have really. Located Interstate, we are looking for a new church to attend to attend, which is really awkward, which is the first time that we have had to look for a church to attend.

I'm not working. Yeah, that's.

They're not. Right, or you're not previously known?

No, that's exactly right. And how does?

Yeah. So the people here, the people in Harvey Bay, have no idea what they're in for.

It. No, that's exactly. Right. So they look at us as we come in, they think. Ohh what a. Lovely family. Yeah, they don't know. Yeah. Not yet. So how's that experience? So far made you feel. Because it's been 2 1/2 months.

Oh. It has been, yeah, two and. 1/2 months.

What are the highs and lows of that experience?

Highs and lows. Highs is seeing the beautiful diversity in the body of Christ in how there are some really good churches.

That are just a really good church, but a different taste plugging.

Away doing what they can faithfully in the context that they ministering.

Yeah. So that's been really good to. See what's a highlight of you?

Umm, getting an opportunity to be objective and not be in.

Sort of mystery mode like where it rises and falls on. You know your effort and leadership team looking to you as much as I love that it's good to be objective and to say, oh, I wonder if anybody will come and say hello to us today or I wonder what. Songs they sing or how do we find the entrance? Are we going to be accepted here? Are we wearing the right clothes, you know?

Which is really funny because I think maybe the second time we visited one of the local churches here. I looked down the aisle and. I whispered to. You can't half tell where from Melbourne.

Because we were wearing all black.

Because we were wearing pretty much all six of us had a strong black presence in our clothing.

Exactly. Exactly. And everyone else in the church was wearing multicolour. It was like a musical, basically. And we were just sitting there as if it was.

Yeah. Ohh yeah.

A funeral? All we.

Needed was like the takeaway Latte Cup in our hand.

Dark glasses was there for coffee, so that's all.

Cool. Yeah. So that was pretty funny. Yeah. So. But no, but that's the thing. Like. Like we've gone from a a coastal town in Victoria to a coastal town in Queensland. Yeah. And while our previous home was still very relaxed up here, it's like. Shorts and thongs and singlets are are quite fine, and you can you can still.

Dress up in church. You mean in? Church. Yeah, of. Course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So our dress. Back home was. Like it was relaxed and whatever you felt like wearing was perfectly fine. And it's, I guess it's the same insults here, but just a little bit more Queenslander.

Yeah, but when you don't know I've worn a couple of shirts just in case.

There was dress code, yeah. Just to be sure. Yeah, but there's no. And there's a guy at the back of the church we're attending now, you know, strong or something.

Please come straight from his swim.

It's great. He's a good guy.

Yeah. Yeah, he is. So yeah. So it has been a bit of a bit of a challenge and and a good challenge, I think especially. Coming from someone for me who has always been involved in that, the doing of church, the ministry and serving, it's been a long time since I've walked into a church and not had to consider things beyond just my attendance and even times when I wasn't serving. Always had little kids with me.

So I was thinking about their needs and what they need for the service. And.

You would use them as a shield to hide.

Our kind of words sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Ohh, you pinch one of them and say ohh, gotta go. Gotta take care. So what's 1 of the lows then?

What's difficult I'm putting on the spot or.

You really are. You'll make me cry the lows is. Familiar faces see walking in and seeing familiar faces. Yes, people who you have fought in the trenches with, people who you. You know that. A look can say 1000 words and they understand that's that's probably the low missing that.

Connection. And that connection will come with time. I get that. But yeah, definitely missing. Missing that I had. We had a beautiful faith community. We're part of in Victoria and you still are. Cause you you you're a fly free pastor for now. Yeah.

Official. Well, I still do.

Until you get. Tired with replies.

I had back there this weekend, which I'm looking.

Forward to yeah, yeah.

Not not looking forward to being away from the fam here, but yeah, looking forward to.

That, yeah, and I'm slightly jealous that you get to go and. Be with everyone too as. You were last time. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But I'm glad that you get to enjoy it so.

So you're missing, no. Those familiar faces that you forge, those relationships where you have a familiar face when you approach adversity and go through adversity together.

Yep. And then when you see people go through difficulty and they're still not. They still don't attack you. Yeah. And you watch them in their lowest of days. Hmm. And you see them not happy about their circumstances, but they establish that they are safe people. Yeah. That builds a lot of trust. Yes, I think until you ride.

The ups and downs of life with our community, to the point where you've seen them at their worst and they still don't behave in unsafe ways or if they do, they're quick to repent and show that they're good hearted, mature, emotionally mature people. Yeah, that's when you get to the promised land.

Attending church with people who you get. Yeah. And we don't have that yet. No, we don't. Because they don't know us. No, we. Well, they're getting to know us. We're getting to know them. So it's been interesting. Yeah.

So we just thought we will talk through a bit of our process in. Looking for a new local church? And does that mean we've definitely landed somewhere and how that looks and how long that takes and everything like that? So so yeah. So you had asked me, yes. What was it? Do you have a low?

The more point the latter point for me. No. Probably don't have a low point.

Is that cause you keep getting to go back to around the church?

A little bit. A little bit, but I think the the low for me or or the the experience for me is kind of like this when we finally sort of landed on the church we're attending now. Great church, a Presbyterian Church pastor by Pastor Rob shout out to Pastor Rob in case he somehow finds his podcast. I don't think he knows about it as yet, but I remember coming for some time. Of course I'm travelling forwards and backwards and.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

We would attend the morning service and then we would attend the night service sometimes because we would join with the Church in Torquay, Vic in the morning, oftentimes online. So yeah, it's hard for him to know when we're going to be there. What are we doing? What's our schedule? And and I remember thinking, you know.

I haven't received a welcome text message or an email or. Or hey, you know, good to have you. Or do you want to catch up for a coffee or anything of that kind of nature from people in the church? I'm not just talking about the pastor, but it just got me thinking about all those things. And immediately because I wasn't indulging the thought, it wasn't even a real emotional. Not at all. It's just what you would expect. It's what culturally we've come to expect from a new church, because churches have created a real spectator. I'm at this church to be served to be welcome, and I remember thinking, you know what? I don't think it's his job to do that. I think spiritual maturity and the the sort of attitude you need to have when you're picking a new church to attend.

That God might have you at that church because the very thing you're good at, they currently are struggling with.

They currently don't have the Ng four. They don't have the resources for or. They're not aware. And I remember thinking. Look, they're welcoming, they're lovely and on fine with the fact that they haven't followed us up so.

Yeah. And I think that's very culturally normal for here. It's a very laid back lifestyle as well.

Not in some of the ***** churches. Oh.

We don't know. We haven't gone round them all.

Well, we went to some of them. No, we didn't. We went to one.

We went to the Baptist.

Anyway, so it was. Interesting. We haven't done been able to go through all of the churches here, just cause it's a bit tricky with you flying in and flying out.

Nor did I want to.

At the time, yeah. So let's just have a look at Hebrews 10, verses 24 and 25, because while we're talking about church and church attending, let's make sure that we are grounded in truth and not just our ideas of. What of what we think?

But those verses say. And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made. Sorry, I have it off I have. It off, thank. You it's OK, but let us encourage one another. All the more as you see the day approaching.

And I think that's what is really important about attending a local church and not just doing what I do when you're away and popping and pop out really quick.

You don't stay for the greeting time. Ohh boys. Let's go. That's like here's all buffer. Our conversation. This is the difference between I heard the team the other day. I think it was like.

And it's a combination between introvert and extrovert and divert. It's like I can be extroverted, yes, but I can also be introverted. Yeah. And so this has really pushed the more introverted side of me so.

That's true. Like. Well, I think that. Scripture touches on what I was trying to say before is that. The mentality of a person who's looking for the for a church shouldn't just be that of a consumer, yes. How do they? Make me feel. Did they follow me up? You know? Do I like the music? Do I like this? Do I like? That all of those kind of. You know, the scripture says and let us consider how to spur one another on. Yeah. So that's what we're going to a church to consider. Umm, will I be able to encourage people here, spare them on towards good works? Because church attendance is. Probably even a bad term. Yeah, we we are going to join a team. We are a part of a body and we're supposed to be on mission together because our attendance is tethered to. Our idea that the day is approaching, yeah, which that scripture is referring to the day.

Of the Lord, yes.

So in light of his return, which church should I attend? And can I, in this church context, can I attend in such a way that I get to spur people on and be spurred?

On yeah, yeah. Sorry, what does a healthy church look like? If you are sitting? Maybe the lessons out there are sitting in the church and going, you know what? I was raised in this church. I've always attended this church. I don't even know if this is a good church. This is just where. I go or maybe. There are people in the same position as us. We have moved and have to find a church. So how do? We actually go, OK, walk into a place. Can I judge if you sell the church or not, which is really hard to do in an hour and a half once a week? Not on a Sunday.

Yes. Yep. Of course, I think a good way to approach that question is not necessarily, is this a healthy church? Because some churches are struggling? Some churches don't have what they need. I think the question the Christian needs to ask is.

Is there? Yeah.

If I pour my life into this place, if I use my gift to Co Labour with the ministers that God has given in this church.

Do I believe this church will head? Towards. A very effective, healthy church like do I buy my attendance by my giving by my service? Do I want to resource this church because I trust? That's what I'm saying, or because a lot of people don't do that. A lot of people say, look, I just like the feel of this church and then they reward things in the church. That they don't believe in or they say.

All. I like the music.

Yes, I like the music, but I don't really like it like that. You know, the pastor just preaches. Feel good messages, and he doesn't really preach exegetical, biblical messages, which a lot of people want. Now, hearing it all the time.

Oh. Yeah, yeah.

One is they have a really good kids. Graham.

Oh, they got a great kids programme for my kid. And you know, so then it's all about how you feel when you walk in. Are your kids taken care of whereas we are there to participate and God might take you to a church where you can help to, to take a good, take a church with the things people value into a healthy systematic.

Well, that's what I was going to say. Maybe it could be a thing of like, oh, well, they do preach fantastic with exegetical preaching. Yeah, but there is no kids. Church. Yes. Like, how do you weigh out what is important and and what you willing to compromise?

OK. Totally. And that's why I think we've got to get this consumer only mentality out of our head. Yeah, it's OK. You got you've gotta be a consumer to some degree, but it's a give and take relationship. I've said this many, many times. Every relationship is a two way St. Yes. What am I giving? What am I receiving? Yeah. And I would much rather attend a church. That all those systems are in place and you don't have to set anything up.

Are my kids gonna be more blessed because they got to attend the pre established kids church? Or are my kids gonna be more blessed because they got to see us trust in God serving God, starting something from nothing and nurturing it through to something that's really helpful and healthy and they have participated along the way. Something in that sense you're demonstrating to your kids how to serve God, how to trust God in that way.

I think that's a really good point with our previous church because we serve cause Chapel is a set up packed down church. And our beliefs have always been part of the team. To their ability, and I think that them serving in the church has been a great blessing for the church, but I think it's also the church has been such a great blessing back to our kids, especially when we had to leave and say goodbye. That was one of the the hardest goodbyes to make. Yeah.

Huge. Huge. That was horrible. Yeah, but beautiful at the same time. Yes. And I remember. In the early days, when we had to drive the car from Ocean Grove to Torquay, which is about a 45 minute drive. And it was freezing cold, and my little Ford Ford Falcon. I think it was would. Sometimes not turn on the ceiling was falling down, so I had to staple gun the ceiling roof up and Jordan. And and Damon. At that point, they were old enough to do set up with me and they were in the back freezing. We were all freezing. They were half asleep. We were all complaining, but we would laugh. We would carry on. And now they look back on those moments as the most fond, incredible moments. But in the moment when you're serving, it just feels hard. Yeah, but later, when you look back on it, these are the things that really fortified their faith.

And that's anything worthwhile in life. Exactly. It's it's hindsight that brings the joy sometimes, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But it's it's like the joy and the discipleship was found in serving together. So when you pick a church, you have to pick a church to. Say. Can I serve here? Yeah. And would I be happy with this church to continue to grow and do really well.

Yeah. So one of the things that we're looking for and when we do look into different churches is the equipping of believers through biblical teaching. So you touched on it briefly before exegetical teaching versus topical teaching. What's the difference and why is there a difference with the greater importance over one or the other? Or are they just equal?

It's a good question. Well, exegetical preaching to simplify it is when. When you're studying your sermon, when you're studying the scriptures to decide what to preach, you're letting the scripture tell you what the meaning of the text is. Mm-hmm. You're letting God's word interpret itself. You're allowing the verses in context to explain what what the points are. Whereas topical preaching you might use the Bible, but you're telling it you're selectively picking which verses match your sermon. So you might say I'm gonna preach a sermon about. You know, love and you pick a few scriptures on love and you talk about how important love is. And you you jam a few verses in there that's topical preaching. Hmm. It's not exegetical preaching. So exegetical is more line by line. Yeah. Going through the verses. But it doesn't exclude being able to preach on topics you can still preach on topics, but you wanna allow the scriptures to determine those. Thanks.

Excellent. Yep. Makes sense to me. Sorry. As far as worship within the Sunday expression of the church service. So that would be from, I guess, the programming of the service. So from your song choice to maybe scripture reading. Or prayer or communion that happens throughout the service. What should you be looking for? In regards to ohh this is actually. This is a biblical expression of worship.

With worship, it's easy. It's just what you like. It's just if it makes you tap your feet and you're happy and you get the feels, it's all good. No, it's the same criteria for me as the sermon, the, the, the songs that you sing. Should be biblical truth, just like the sermon is.

And so it needs to be true. It needs to be God focused, not me. Focused. Mm-hmm. You know, you can you can be included in that because we often.

You know, we're telling our soul to glorify God, but. I would say. Style is secondary. You know style is important that that's a part of it, I suppose. But really it's secondary to truth. Yeah. And so if we had a choice, I would rather seeing what is true.

Than to just seeing what is enjoyable or modern, hmm. Now ideally I'd love both.

Yeah, I agree with you. I thrive. In an environment where there's both.

And then we've gotta consider personal preference so. We don't want our personal preference to become the very first thing we consider as we're assessing all the different areas of church that we might enjoy so with worship. It's like ohh, I really like this style. I really like this song. And you know what's gonna happen in six months time if they go and change the style of music, then all of a sudden, do we abort the mission? Mm-hmm. For the sake of personal preference. Yeah. So I think we just have to consider again. That idea of me being a consumer is not the number one priority.

Hmm. That's really good.

Dan, can I add to that? Yeah, because I think this is where a lot of churches are stuck in a rut is that people have perhaps been in a church for a very long time. They love the church. They have served the church, and they've done many things in that church that have made that church a better place. However, because of their own personal preference. They might now stifle initiative because they like their preferences.

Ohh I see what you said. Yeah, yeah.

So what I'm saying is the church should always be on mission. We are evangelical churches, that they're the type of churches we go to. Yeah, our personal bent theologically is, like reformed in evangelical.

We need to put the evangelism back in evangelical. Mm-hmm. And we can't do that while we're holding on to our personal preferences too tightly. When it comes to music. Like, I love this song. I love this. Liturgy all the way. The service is laid out. But is my personal preference. Blocking our ability as a church to be relevant. Yeah, yeah. Now we we don't water the word of God down for the sake of relevance. Mm-hmm. But is our is the way we're doing things, just not reaching people is the message not becoming clear? Yeah. So. Yeah.

No, that's a really good point. The other thing that I was thinking about people who are attending different churches is some people are like, yeah, it's a great church, but I haven't really connected with friendships and other people are like, well, I've got long term friendships in this church. But the teaching really is sub par. So we stick around for the friends like how important. Is community with fellow believers.

Ohh man, they're almost two different topics but. I'll say this. I personally think community is incredibly important. Yeah, incredibly important. You have to. These are your brothers and your sisters in Christ. These are people that we have our faith in God in common. We should have at a minimum. We should like each other. And we should love each other. But it also comes down to what you're rewarding.

So if for the sake of relationship, because you know people in this established church, you are rewarding a church that is not biblical in their teaching, then you have elevated friendships over truth and what you're doing is you're actually feeding the machine. His dishonouring God. And God ends up giving us the. Leaders we deserve.

And we might say ohh that lead is not great. Well, you're feeding him. Yeah. You're encouraging him to. Same with our politicians. It's the same with everything. That doesn't mean if we leave, we should kick up a stink. But we should not reward with our time, talent, treasure. Just because we elevate relationships.

OK, so it's. Oh, OK, yeah. Hmm.

Over those things, yeah, and stick around at churches.

Yeah, but also one of the. I totally agree with you, by the way.

I also don't. Think we should leave churches easily, but. I'll leave it at that.

OK. Well, no, don't leave it at that. OK, tell me that because if if you're picking a church, maybe it's because you've left the church. So you just said you don't think you should leave church as easily.

Yeah, I don't think it should be a flippant decision that's driven by emotion or offence if a church. Is biblical. So, so here's here's the problem, right we've got you can shop around for the best church now. Yeah. I want this church. I want this element. I want that element. And So what we do is we do basically church discipline in reverse. The members are scrutinising the church and deciding what is godly or good or not, and so they execute judgement on that church by staying or leaving. But biblically they're supposed to be church discipline. Both wise. You either support the church with your attendance.

But if that's your church, you submit to the local authorities that God has put there. We are supposed to submit to loving but feeling leadership. Mm-hmm. And.

When we just shop around for different churches because there's so many on offer, which is probably some of the trail end of like your attractional wave of churches that have come over the last 20 years.

Now we've got churches. Everywhere with all these different personalities, yeah. What happens when? You don't subject yourself to church discipline. You become an illegitimate child.

And so really you're not behaving as a member of that church in a biblical way. That's not an excuse for church leadership abuse.

Just to bring the whole balance to the equation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, thank you for doing that.

So we we shouldn't just leave church flippantly, but we should intentionally join the church because of important things. And I think those important things are biblical. Preaching are love from the leadership to the people. Understanding that the Saints are supposed to do the work of the ministry, can I serve here? Can I give here? And this is a place, is this a place that I.

And. Love God and love others so.

Yeah. Well, going on that love others, I think one of the other things you need to be looking for when you're looking to have church community and all the rest of that is an outward focus. So you've mentioned before about consumerism. Within churches where you go in and is is the is it to my taste? Is it? To my liking. But there's also the opportunity of is. Is this a place that I can bring encouragement to the people? Is this a place where I can serve alongside other people? Is there a need to Hattie? You know, I guess, how do you assess those sorts of things?

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Do you mean like outward focus as in evangelism?

Well, well, both. I guess you know.

Cause I I think there's a a hierarchy of. Importance.

OK. Talk me through what you're thinking.

Sorry. So if you I might get through a big grant. And you say that's not what? I was talking. About at all but like say for example, we want this church to do evangelism. Mm-hmm. St evangelism say. OK. Sure, that's that's incredible. But you know what's an easier form of evangelism? Inviting someone to church. Yeah. So maybe we look at that and say, is this the sort of church I could invite a friend to? Hmm. And I'm not saying that's the only form of evangelism that can be a cop out. Like, I think we should share our faith wherever we are. But we need to be equipped to to do that, and we need to be trained to do that and growing. Confidence. So you begin by inviting a friend, which can be scary for some people. Yeah, but is this the sort of church I can invite a friend to? Yeah. So. And then, eventually that might become the sort of church. That. You know they can do evangelism and you think that's done really. Well, you know, yeah.

No, that's a good point. But again, that was probably not what I was thinking.

I've got a gift. What can I?

Say, but it's more like OK, some people are like I'm I'm going to attend this church because this is how I can serve there for my gifting.

Or some people like I don't wanna go to that church because there's no space for me to serve there.

Like so, you've got kind of a difference between the two. And again for lack. Of a better. But a question. It's it's kind of made it about us.

Which we'll try not to do, but as part of our Christianity and part of our worship is serving for sure. So I guess how do you meet that need of honouring God in our in our worship, not just through through songs?

Through acts and with the GIFTINGS and the abilities he's uniquely given to each of us, how do we find our our spot? I.

Guess that makes sense. I would say that. Everyone's called to serve God, yes, in different ways, yes. And I think we make a mistake to say that that only executes itself in the life of the local church.

So some people are just wired differently. Yeah, and their desire is not going to be. The same as. Your desire totally. And so we need people of all types to reach all types of people. And so when we glorify just serving a local body that can sort of diminish those who serve outside the church. Yes. Whereas, you know, we're not professional clergymen. We're believers in Christ. So whoever is preaching Christ, we need to applaud. Yeah.

Now, how is God reaching the world? He is reaching the world through the church. Yeah. And so I do personally believe in the established church and the church. Abroad, I believe in the institutional church as well as the Church of individuals who are called out into the world. So the church is, you know, made up of people who have been called out of darkness into his life, who live in community with each other, and sometimes.

And meeting buildings. So do those people execute all of their service in the? Building. No, but whatever is on their heart according to their gifts, they get to serve somewhere.

So you're looking for a church which esteems that.

Not necessarily, so long as they allow it to happen, so long as they don't stifle it. Yeah. You know, I don't think we need people to esteem what God has already esteemed. Yeah. So, you know, the mother who is raising children, and that's a big part of how she's serving God. Praise God for that.

Look at our society. It is crumbling all around us and we need parents to execute their roles. Faithfully, wherever they may be. Hmm. So I would say so long as the church isn't stifling it. Yeah. Now, if you're wanting to preach. As say, you're a young man in a church and you want to preach, and that church won't let you preach. That's a different. It's a different question, yeah, because, you know, maybe it's good that they won't let you preach it probably is because generally, if you know you really, really, really wanna preach, it's, you know, you've got to love the people, serve the people, submit to the church and trust the wisdom of the elders, that God will be.

Yeah, I think there's a big one. Trust. In the wisdom. Of the elders that are already in the church and. And really, genuinely loving the people that are there, I think without without the the love for the people and for the word of God, then things can go bit wonky pretty quick. So you have been seen your pastor or still are in Torquay, Vic.

Yep. Not great. OK.

For nine years.

So before that you have been associate pastors in different churches. Yep. So the last 20 odd years. We've yeah. Church has always been a huge part of our life. Yeah. From what you have seen in your various roles of like, you know, whether it's creative arts or whether it's.

Senior Pastor role or or whatnot or youth. What would be some don'ts? If looking for a church for a church.

Oh boy. Or if you saw this.

As a red flag, maybe maybe. What are some red flags or what are some ways to approach things?

As as. As the pastor or as the individual.

As the pastor. OK. Yeah. You as the senior pastor, based off your experience? Sure. When people have come into the church, you've been a pastor of and they've maybe behaved in certain manners or displayed certain motives.

What are certain things that are a little bit? Like, OK well. There's a bit of work that we. Need to go through here.

Look, I think the main one that I think of. Is the the way people left their other church will eventually be the way they'll leave your church. So when?

You mean people left your church?

How could you? I think. If people come in and they're. Wow, you're amazing. Thank you, pastor. You're the best general ever. Now, our pastors are dying from discouragement, so don't get me wrong. But I think when when somebody will idolise you, they will just as quickly demonise you. Yeah, so you know, obviously that is not the appropriate way.

You don't want pasta salad. When people come in and they're like, wow, you can do no wrong, you are just so much better than my last church and setting themselves up for disappointment, and you will eventually become. That person who they're upset with. So if they can. Easily idolise you. They will just as easily. David, once you unfortunately, and that and that's where pastors eventually and ministry leaders, not just pastors and men and women, are eventually they try not to make deep friendships. Yeah, because you think you've got friendships, you think things are going well and we're all good. And the second something doesn't go.

Right. They will leave you a knife. You a cat sometimes. Not every time.

And then as the person who's had that happen to them 567 times, it's so easy to retreat.

And I've seen it in other pastors when I was younger and I I sort of thought, how could you retreat? Don't you love people like we love each other? We're the church. We should. We should, you know, communicate that way. But as you go in ministry a bit longer. You can sort of see. Why ohh. Yeah, people might retreat, but I think.

That's. Something we've gotta fight against.

So don't go into a church too quickly, OK? Yeah. So where we are attending at the moment? Umm, we've been there. For. Maybe two months, yeah. And we not just. Jumped in and said this is great. This is perfect. We love this place. We're going to be here forever.

But it is it is a really good church.

I love I integrate present church. There's there's so many good things about it. Yeah, that's that objectivity. I get to see different things that maybe we haven't done in in our ministry and to see how they do it here is really encouraging.

But we've gone slowly. Yes, because I I know when we first went there and. Have you heard the first sermon and went through the 1st service? It was exciting. Umm and maybe some of our children who were a bit more excitable. Were like that's. It this is our church, we've made the decision not make the decision slowly, yeah. So that you do the least amount of damage and hopefully positive. You know you want to be a blessing wherever. You. Yes, just I'd say pump the brakes and just go slow. Yeah, ask yourself, why do they want me at? This church, yeah. And then ask yourself, why is this church attractive to me?

Yeah, they're good questions.

And make sure that your motivation. Is clean before God. Check your own heart. Search me and Romeo, Lord David said.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's.

You know, see if there's any deceit for why and me.

That is some very good advice there, Dan, so.

If you don't say so. Yourself.

Yeah, well, you know. Well, I guess Tom will tell.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Yeah. So that's it pretty much for wrap up wrap up for us as we finish on this topic. So for those who are listening, do be praying for the absurd family as we are in a new. Season of a lot of new things, new with you travelling backwards and forwards to Victoria. New with me. I've reentered the workforce just doing some relief work which has been a long time. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's another podcast actually, yeah.

Yep. Testing. Really. Your work situation.

No, but like as a mum reentering after 20 years. Yeah, because we chose different for our family. I don't know. We'll have a.

Think about it.

A podcast on identity because that's really what that is.

Yeah, well, that's what that's speaking to you.

So yeah, so do be praying for us and thank you all for joining with us and we will catch you.

Next time? Yeah, consider the club's officially dusted off.

Officially dusted off, we are back in the game and we'll chat soon. Everyone. Bye.