Whispers from the Dugout with Rick Cerrone (Part 2)

When Rick Cerrone, the revered editor-in-chief of Baseball Digest, joins us for another Episode, he brings more than just stats and stories; he brings the heartbeat of baseball history to our show. As we light our Rocky Patel cigars and settle into our chairs, Rick transports us from the Pittsburgh Pirates' PR office to the inner sanctum of the New York Yankees under George Steinbrenner. His tales of innovation, like initiating Pirate Fest, and the nostalgia of Turn Back the Clock Day, remind us that baseball is a tapestry of tradition and transformation.

Ever wondered what it would be like to witness Barry Bonds toss his glove onto the field in true 1939 fashion, or to overhear a heated exchange between Bonds and Jim Leyland during spring training? Rick Serone shares these moments with the vividness of a seasoned storyteller, offering a glimpse into the personalities and tensions that shaped an era. He also peels back the curtain on the life of a baseball PR director, from handling managerial fireworks to navigating the complexities of media relations—all while keeping the game's legacy alive.

But it's not all fastballs and field drama; Rick recounts a heartwarming story of Oscar-winning actress Teresa Wright, whose love for baseball was sparked by a simple first pitch at a Yankees game. Her journey from silver screen to diamond enthusiast, culminating in a cherished encounter with Derek Jeter, is a poignant reminder that baseball is more than a sport—it's a series of human stories, each with the power to inspire and connect. Join us for an episode that captures the soul of America's pastime through the eyes of one of its most dedicated chroniclers.

CHAPTERS

0:00 Career Highlights of Baseball Digest Editor

7:55 Barry Bonds and the Pirates

20:05 Meeting Jim Leland, Landing Yankees Job

29:04 The Secret Relationship With Steinbrenner

43:17 Teresa Wright's Love of Baseball

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!

www.holdmycutter.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We are with the editor in chief here on, hold my Cutter. The editor in chief of baseball digest. That is Time out. Rick Serone, our guest, and what a career he's had. He and we, michael McHenry and I and Rick, enjoying the Rocky, fatale Addisione, the Utica from the Honduran Jama Stran, with the Honduran binder and filler, a little smoked cedar cocoa and a slight bit of pepper taste to it.

Speaker 2: 0:27

It's a really good, are you?

Speaker 1: 0:29

enjoying that. Yeah, are you kidding me? I taste the cedar. Yeah, I got a little bit of the cocoa in there. I like it all.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Rick has had a career in baseball that spans several decades. He always wanted to be going back to his sophomore year in high school, the PR guy for the New York Yankees. That was his ultimate dream. He reached that dream and he's done so many other things along the way and again currently the chief baseball digest editor.

Speaker 1: 1:02

We picked up on our last podcast talking about your hiring by the Pirates, and the first edict from Carl Barger, who was in charge of the Pirates at the time, was basically don't worry about the notes, don't worry about the media. Guys, I want you to convince the fans of Pittsburgh that these Pirates are gonna stay around for another hundred years. Wow, you took that to task. You had a mission and right away you started thinking about now this is what year? 1987? 1987. August of 1980.

Speaker 1: 1:35

And then this is the Pirates have been through the drug trials and they had one foot out the door. I mean, they were. They were headed out of town. The Galbraith put them up for sale a couple years beforehand. The city kind of was saved by the likes of Carl Barger that consortium put together, hire you as their new PR man. But right away you have these marching orders and you go to work on trying to get, for example, the All-Star Game back to Pittsburgh, which was there in 1971. The idea was in your mind if the All-Star Game comes here, then people will know we're gonna be here for quite some time.

Speaker 2: 2:05

If we build the Clementi States, you we're not gonna truck it to Denver, okay, whatever. So that gave me a mission and that was always in the back of my mind when we created Pirate Fest in 19. You created Pirate Fest too. Well, I was part of the team that did Counts. That was at the old Monroeville Mall yeah, the Expo Mart, you know. Bernie Mullen came into my office and put a program on my desk and said we need to do this. And I said die hard Cubs fan convention. And I read through it and saw what they had seminar on this, you know, whatever and I said no, we can't, we don't need to do this because we're not marketing to our die hard fans. We already got them. We need to market to the families, the people out there that may not even come to games, but give them something that they can do on a weekend in January and fall in love with the pirates.

Speaker 3: 3:03

So you're trying to find a different demographic.

Speaker 2: 3:06

I basically said I want to create a theme park that's basically centered around pirates.

Speaker 3: 3:12

If you're tossing a ball, it's the bucko toss, I would go to that theme park right now.

Speaker 2: 3:18

Well, you missed it, it was a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 3: 3:20

I was a fantasy camp, which is, in my opinion, the best thing on the planet.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah, but so you know, we had a local architects build us an indoor Forbes field and with turf and everything, and we had our trivia contest there and our you know, our Q&A with Jim Leland and the GM and it was great and I see they're still doing it.

Speaker 1: 3:42

Yeah so the the Clemente statue go back to that. Joe Vogel was a huge pirates fan. He was out there in front of gate A every single day and he'd walk in to the press, gate players, front office people and he would yell out your birthday or, don't forget it, somebody's birthday today. He knew all the dates, still does. He suffered a massive stroke many years ago and can no longer speak, but he's still at just about every single game. He was kind of the driving force. You got that Clemente statue done. But Susan Moore, susan Wagner, susan Wagner, susan Moore was the pirate parrot designer.

Speaker 3: 4:20

Hey, hey, she did more she did more.

Speaker 1: 4:24

Susan Wagner, again, susan Moore was the woman that designed the pirate parrot costume. Susan Wagner was in charge of the Clemente statue, so take it from there.

Speaker 2: 4:34

Well, you know, we, we raised the 250,000 dollars but, as I said, I was asked to leave like a year before its completion. So I, you know, I kind of got out of that 1993. But you know, the other thing that I'm really proud of and there's a great story behind this is Turn Back the Clock Day that started. It's a painful story to tell in a way, because it was kind of like groundbreaking. We were in Chicago, 1989 maybe or 1990, and a bunch of players and my wife and we went out to, we went to see a movie, we went to see eight men out, so whatever you ate in 1989. So we saw the movie and now we go to a restaurant and we're all around a table and players start saying isn't it amazing that there was no organ to tell you went to cheer, there was no scoreboard, they just started cheering and they didn't. And someone said you know, we should play a game like that. And I said you know, before 1948 the pirates uniforms were actually red, white and blue. Really, oh.

Speaker 3: 5:45

I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 5:46

Yeah they didn't go to Black and Gold until 1948, I believe. So I said you know, if we could play a game like, it was 1939 and we could play the Brooklyn Dodgers, and we'll have the LA Dodgers wear Brooklyn uniforms or the New York, the San Francisco Giants wear New York Giants uniforms. So we went to Major League Baseball and I won't say any names and everything, but the person I said can we do this? Can we wear red, white and blue and ask the Dodgers or ask the Giants? And the person said this is the single most unique idea that's ever crossed my desk.

Speaker 1: 6:22

Okay, so we put it off until the next year.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Between that conversation and the end of the season, I read in the USA Today that the Chicago White Sox and we didn't have a name for the game are going to be hosting a Turn Back the Clock Day, the first game after the All-Star game which was played in Chicago that year at Comiskey Park. They will wear 1919 uniforms, and the person quoted from the White Sox in USA Today says this is not something you could do at, say, three River Stadium in Pittsburgh. So somehow our idea was leaked to him, so they had the first one. So we said well, we're gonna do it better so we found that everything that they did right, everything they did wrong.

Speaker 2: 7:07

And what we learned was you can't do it the way they did it, where you shut down the PA, you shut down the scoreboard, there's no sound after two innings. It's boring. So we said what if we picked a date and played the game on that date, so, and picked a year was 1939, as if they had the scoreboard and this stuff? What would it have done in 1939? Well, you would have put the scores up of the games that were played on that day in 1939 and I just think we draped the outfield wall with vintage billboards, the whole. It was beautiful.

Speaker 2: 7:46

And I went to Karl Barger and I said we should think about doing that. And he goes you don't put. You don't put signage on the outfield wall. This, the major league, this is not well, now everybody does it. Yeah, we actually had an actor come in in a vintage vehicle and we announced please welcome the president of the United States, franklin Delano Roosevelt, and he came around and I said whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. How are you gonna get him from the car to his box? He couldn't walk. I think Joe Billidoo, who's still with the pirates. They were on the side of the car, you know, a secret service. And when they got to the box they carried, and this guy, who was a wonderful he actually was an actor portrayed Franklin Roosevelt. So so here's the best part of the day but that's an experience right, yeah, so cool.

Speaker 2: 8:37

So here's the best part of the day the pirates take the field and their red, white and blue uniforms and that they retail. We played the Dodgers would not participate there. They said there was some trademark problem that they couldn't wear Brooklyn what I don't know what it was, but it was 30 something years ago. But the giants agreed and they played in their blue and orange oh, new York Giants uniforms and I still have the pictures of all the Pirates players in their uniform.

Speaker 2: 9:02

I mean, look up and get this uniform, yeah, so yeah, you can get them from Mitchell and Ness. It's which is who did it for us. So we take the field and we retire the giants in the top of the first. And I'm being honest to me, before the players take a step to go off the field, they throw their gloves on the field, which is what you did in 1939.

Speaker 3: 9:21

You left your team.

Speaker 2: 9:25

Yeah, come on and they all did it. I was like, and you know whose idea it was? Barry Bond, barry Bond, wow.

Speaker 3: 9:35

Calm. Was he a baseball like history?

Speaker 2: 9:36

I don't know what he said If we're going? He said to the guys if we're going to do this, we're going to do this, right, Right, we have to flip our gloves if we want to be accurate. And somebody in the dugout said Barry, if we want to be accurate, you're not playing.

Speaker 1: 9:52

Well, wait, but they did that just for show for a half an hour. Yeah, they just did it once, yeah, once. So I mean, and then they went out, which they didn't leave the clubs out there. You know, about 10 years ago they had one at PNC Park Uh-huh, you were aware of that, I knew that and they had Tim DeBacco, the public address announcer, on the dugout with a megaphone. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2: 10:12

Yeah, we had. I think we still had Art McKenon. Do that If I? Apologies to Tim. If it was Tim and not Art, he wasn't on the dugout Art McKenon.

Speaker 3: 10:20

No, no, no, no, that's, that's so cool.

Speaker 1: 10:22

I love stuff like this. Yeah, let's go say like Franklin Delavoso, you could have played Franklin.

Speaker 2: 10:27

Yeah, yeah. But it was a great day. We all wore, we all went to thrift shops and got vintage clothing with fedoras and it was so everybody bought it, everybody bought it, all the play pirate front and it was great it was, it was it was hey speaking of bonds, yeah, you got to take us through the episode that.

Speaker 1: 10:45

I don't know if it put Leland on the map, but everybody refers back to that moment.

Speaker 3: 10:49

Well, and two bonds. As a kid I loved bonds. I don't know what it was, but I was. I was a youngster. One of my first little league teams was the Giants. I had a little blood stain on the cap from getting hit in the face and finishing the game and I still have that cap. I idolized this man, knew nothing about him except how good he was.

Speaker 2: 11:09

Yeah, so I'd love to hear more about the streaming match in spring training Well it's well, godman, and now, and Jim will tell you that he's he's downplace, he downplays it now, but it was a big deal what?

Speaker 1: 11:22

happened.

Speaker 2: 11:22

And what year was this? This was 1991 and bonds was the MVP from 1990. And he and his good friend Bobby Bonilla had, before spring training of 91, both lost their arbitration cases and Bobby, more so than Barry, was very, very upset, and I think a lot of it was fueled by his agent they may have had the same agent, as I remember and they basically agreed with each other that they were going to quote freeze out the ball club and they were going to do nothing that the ball club asked them to do other than, you know, after the game, talk to the writers, whatever.

Speaker 3: 12:01

It was a common then for arbitration. Like a lot of contracts don't even come close anymore. You may hear about five, six, seven it was a big deal back then.

Speaker 2: 12:11

But so we went to spring training and they and it happened to be photo day and photo days when all the media the Post-Cousette, the Tribune Review, whoever but Tops, fleer, don Russ, whoever else the national agencies set up stations and take pictures. Well, they boycotted that. Well, I found that kind of odd, since they're paying you for this, but anyway, they didn't participate. So photo day ends and the players go out and the cameras were all set up to film the workout and they were a good distance away and Barry just objected to them, not how close they were, which is what people are talking, talk about, but that they were taking his picture at all.

Speaker 1: 12:54

That and I thought Jim Lechima, who was your assistant. I thought he had told me once that the odd thing was that that was either a friend or someone that Barry had hired.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Yeah Well, I don't recall this, as maybe I should, but apparently we had credentials for that day. Barry's own photographer.

Speaker 2: 13:15

Okay, yeah, that's what he said but Barry kept get back, stop taking my picture. And then finally, jim Lechima, who was under me as the media relations director, went over to Barry and Barry just undressed him. I had, you know, I decide who takes my picture and he goes. No, you don't. And I think one of the coaches Leland, didn't witness any of this, but one of the coaches went and got him on another field because he sensed that something bad was going to happen and Barry continued to sulk. And Bill Verdon was an outfield instructor you know, a legendary pirate. And you know, as Rich Donnelly says in an article that'll run in our March April issue about Jim Leland, he says you don't, you know, you don't mess with Bill Verdon and I think Leland's kind of circling this group of outfielders and he just feels that Barry's being belligerent or whatever Disrespectful, disrespectful, and he just unloaded on him.

Speaker 1: 14:17

You know you don't want to be. Everybody knows Leland marched over when he said that was enough. He saw yeah and he unloaded on him and he said you know why why?

Speaker 2: 14:26

And he said because I'm the bleeping manager. That's why blah, blah, blah, blah, blah he goes. So it was, but I wrote this in. I write this in my column in the March April issue. That and Ron Cook wrote it back in November when Jim was a candidate for the Hall of Fame. That that's the moment that launched his trajectory to the Hall of Fame and my take is that that could have gone the other way, because if he lets that go and doesn't do what he did, I think he would have lost a lot of. He gained the. There was nobody in the game that didn't, you know. He gained the respect of everyone, including bonds.

Speaker 3: 15:02

Exactly he didn't back down the life Right.

Speaker 2: 15:07

And he made it clear I'm the manager, I'm in charge this, and that I can't have that whatever. And after that Bonds was. But I will tell you one thing that was interesting that that year I think because Bonds Bonilla only played one more year, so it was prior to 92, they offered Barry a contract that would have made him the second highest contract in Major League Baseball. The only player in Major League Baseball that would have been earning more than Barry Bonds was Roger Clements, and I believe this contract was for four years, $16 million, which at the time was significant. And Bonilla completely rejected it.

Speaker 2: 15:49

And Bonds came to me and said go tell Mr Barger, offer me that contract and I'll sign it. And I gotta be honest with you. You imagine 10 years later, if we lose Barry, bonds and Carl Barger were to say to me is it true that Bonds told you he would have signed that contract? I have to tell you. So I went to Carl Barger and I said hey, barry said put the, give him that contract and he will sign it tomorrow. And Carl basically yeah, I love Carl. But he said are you out of your mind?

Speaker 1: 16:22

I mean, I'll be honest with you, I think a lot of the reasons they didn't go, I don't think they really wanted Barry. I mean he just I don't know how you could.

Speaker 3: 16:38

I know not how you could draw that conclusion, but how, how one, how one could draw why they would think that goes a little bit deeper, both of you, in the sense of why, like I've spoken to some of his teammates, and he was, he was a he was a bad guy.

Speaker 1: 16:53

man, he was a bad guy.

Speaker 3: 16:56

I've heard Bush after both.

Speaker 1: 16:57

That's not true. The way he treated people and I'm using past tense because Barry we had Barry in the booth a couple of years ago with the Giants he was very cordial and some of his teammates have talked to them. They liked them and stuff like, but in terms of how he treated others, it was a, it was not good.

Speaker 2: 17:15

This is what I thought with all the players I dealt with, from starting with the pirates to the Yankees. Everybody's different. If I had 25 dentists, there's going to be the really good people, the spoiled people, the you know, almost the same as big. Everybody has a reality, but the only thing is I did not grow up in Barry Bond shoes.

Speaker 1: 17:38

I did not have his upbringing. I'm not trying to do it Right.

Speaker 2: 17:41

But I, so I kind of like I almost felt bad for Barry Well that's all well good.

Speaker 1: 17:46

The bottom line was how he treated others had an impact, no doubt in my mind. If Carl Parker were alive today sitting here and he would love to be here with us with a cigar and we got him now and we've said he would say it wasn't worth it to us.

Speaker 3: 18:02

It was a PR nightmare Right Hindsight 2020 though.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Looking back at the sticks, well, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:08

Yeah, I'm just saying hindsight, 2020, when did? When did the losing streak start?

Speaker 2: 18:13

Yeah, but E3,. But let me tell you another thing I was the PR guy. When you say PR nightmare, I was the PR, the head of PR. I never considered him a nightmare. He was challenging, he was a challenge. But you know what? You looked the other way for talent like that Not every great player was.

Speaker 1: 18:37

Ernie Banks. Well, I understand that, but let's take a look at the history of the pirates over the years. When you call it what you will, but but how that person is perceived by a fan base had an impact and maybe still does, and maybe it should. Where you, you can't separate the personality with the great player Dave Parker comes to mind. They wanted Parker out of here. Now, of course, they have since made up a great way, but but the same with Bob, same with a. Parker was a great, great player, but the pirates could not afford in their minds to keep that lightning rod right in this city.

Speaker 2: 19:16

Well, I will tell you, though, that, as the guy who was the head of PR, I never felt for one minute as difficult as he may have made my job Right and he made it more difficult than other people. I never felt that we're selling less tickets and people let it be good.

Speaker 1: 19:34

Well, this goes back to the thing we've debated, and that's what Jim Leland has always said Give me 25 jerks that can play Well it's because he could manage that Some guys can't.

Speaker 3: 19:46

I mean, he's got it, he's got a knack and he's special in the sense of, well, he deals with human beings.

Speaker 1: 19:51

You get a bunch of great players who worry about he's. I can teach them PR in the winter, as he is to say.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Let me tell you, let me tell you sir own can teach him PR.

Speaker 1: 19:57

It's easy to take. It's easy to tame a bull.

Speaker 3: 19:59

It's hard to build a bull.

Speaker 2: 20:02

Right? Well, let me. Let me tell you Jim Leland's story. So I'm at the commissioner's office with Peter Ubroth, right, and I didn't tell the story. This is what? Year? 1986. Right? No, you have not. All right, Well, I'm working for Peter Ubroth and he had sent me down to Pittsburgh when Galbreath Mr Galbreath was announcing the sale of the team and I said what do you want me to do? He goes, make sure that he doesn't say anything stupid, Peter you're also that's a broad statement.

Speaker 2: 20:31

What am I going to do? Whoa, whoa, that's really stupid.

Speaker 1: 20:36

So let's leave that out, Stop, stop. I go to the press conference. I meet, you know.

Speaker 2: 20:40

Greg Johnson, who I knew. That's why you know legend. So I'm actually sitting in the office that would eventually, a year later, be my office. But everything went fine. I went back.

Speaker 2: 20:52

So now it's opening day for this new ownership group. Opening day, april 4th, whatever the day was, 1986, they're playing the Mets big crowd, 50,000. And Peter says, hey, I don't know if this was the day before the day he goes listen, ginny, and I, as wife Ginny, we're going to fly down to Pittsburgh for the game. You want to come along, sure? So Nancy Rich, who had Pittsburgh roots, she went down with us and a private plane before us. We get there, we get to the block. So now we're. We get there, maybe 90 minutes before the game.

Speaker 2: 21:30

We go in the front office and we're greeted by Mac Prine, the new president, who I first time. I met him and we're standing outside of what was Mac's office. This is 90 minutes before the game and at the end of the hall that, I would learn, was a door that if you went through that door and another 50 feet, you're at the clubhouse. So if you were going to the front office from the clubhouse, that's the door you saw. We're talking and all of a sudden the door opens and this guy walks through the door and it hits you because he's wearing a spanking white home pirate uniform. And as he approaches I learned this is Jim Leland, the manager, and he's looking for Mac Prine. And Mac says oh, jim, this is our manager, jim Leland. Jim say hello to the commissioner, Peter Ubroath, and his wife Ginny. And Leland says, yeah, nice to meet you. I mean, he wasn't disrespectful, but Mac, we got a problem and he's got the the Met's lineup card and it was 38 years ago, so forgive me that I don't remember the exact detail.

Speaker 2: 22:38

You're okay, it has something to do with them not being at 25 men, that there were 26 names on this roster and I remember the name, doug Sisk, the relief pitcher, so he must have been the guy that ultimately got. But they, they should have presented a lineup card with 25 guys and he was going in an animated way with Mac and Mac's looking at him like what is it I'm going to do? Did he want him to call the league president? So anyway, finally, jim says his piece and walks away and Peter Ubroath taps Mac on the shoulder and says your new man there has quite a fire. I like that. You got a good one there, I think. And you know, 38 years later he's going to the hall of fame.

Speaker 1: 23:23

So that was my first meeting with him.

Speaker 2: 23:24

He goes into the front line.

Speaker 1: 23:25

That was your first meeting with.

Speaker 3: 23:27

Jim, I never met Leland before. That's great, as prior to your hiring, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: 23:31

I wonder, and I'm going to ask him when I see him I mean, do you remember that at all? That he might say I have no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 23:39

I mean, you got to remember walking into the front line, I don't know, before you knew the front line for him.

Speaker 2: 23:43

That's outstanding, I don't know, but so that was top.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Well, what I was seeking out was. I just said. What's the president's going to do?

Speaker 2: 23:48

I don't know what he wanted to do, but you know you got to call a league. I don't know, but all I know is that was my meeting with Jim Leland, who, within a year, I would be working with. It's just.

Speaker 1: 23:57

PR guy, all the managers you've. You've legendary, of course, the hall of fame.

Speaker 2: 24:00

Well, they're all the hall of fame, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Well, it just so happens. Jim Leland, how do you compare those two, leland and Tori?

Speaker 2: 24:08

Well, they were two very, very different people because, you know, Jim was a guy that you could believe was once a mail carrier, which he was for a construction worker. That was not Joe, so perfect for the city. Joe was very laid back. But so when I got the Yankee job in 96, my first worry was, other than you know, a lot different than 1972 when I wanted it. Now George Steinbrenner owns the Yankees and he fires people, like George Costanza says, like it's a bodily function, and mostly his PR guys.

Speaker 2: 24:46

So, he had owned the team for 24 years at that point or thereabouts and he had gone through 12 PR guys before me, the longest serving PR director under Steinbrenner Mr Steinbrenner before me was a guy named Harvey Green. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:02

He went on to be the Dolphins.

Speaker 2: 25:03

And he was there for like two and a half seasons and he was known as the Lou Gehrig of Yankee. He lasted that long.

Speaker 3: 25:10

So, where are you, the Bay Ruth?

Speaker 2: 25:12

That was my first worry. But my bigger concern was Joe got the job in November and the PR man was a young man named Rob Butcher. Now Rob Butcher left the Yankees on Christmas Eve because he made the mistake of going home for Christmas Eve. And then they then were going to announce that they signed David Cohn and he said well, I'll fly back. And they said Mr Steinbrenner says don't bother. That's when I got the call Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2: 25:41

Well, the funny thing is we were living in Pittsburgh and my brother-in-law Scott came down for Christmas and he walks in my house and he throws the New York Post or the Daily News on the table and on the back cover is a caricature of Steinbrenner and says Scrooge, talking about how he fired the PR guy. So my brother-in-law Scott's first words were your job's available. So I said I'm not touching that, the kid will have his job back in a week. And then I start getting calls from writers Bill Matt and Jack O'Connell. Finally they call me and say I love that. They're saying your job, yeah, that's awesome, they do all that you want. Finally they call me and say look, they offered the kid his job back. He didn't take it. They're doing a search. Your name's come up.

Speaker 2: 26:26

So if you want the job, you got to call Arthur Richmond, who I knew for many years. He was a senior advisor to Mr Steinbrenner and I talked to Karen and, in spite of what she thought, I called Arthur Richmond and I remember I remember, given my whole story. I wanted this job my whole life, since I was 15. I'm the man for the job this whole, and I'll never forget his response. I'll leave out the expletive Are you out of your mind, Really? I said what do you mean? He goes. You can't work with this man. He's crazy. I said well, you work with him. That's different. I don't take any crap from him. I go. I say, well, you'll teach me, you'll be my mentor, all right.

Speaker 1: 27:08

I'll call you back.

Speaker 2: 27:09

So out of that I got the interview. I went up, I got the job. My biggest concern was I don't know what kind of relationship Joe Forge with Rob Butcher. He might be ticked off and he's going to be difficult for the next guy to replace Rob. But I got the job on a Friday and they said hey, can you get a tuxedo? Remember I drove to New York for the interview. I got my two-year-old son with me. We're staying at my parents and when they gave me the job I said can you get a tux by Sunday? Because we want to introduce you as the new PR director at the Black Tide baseball writers' dinner.

Speaker 2: 27:46

So I'm at the baseball writers' dinner with the tux that my good friends at Marty's formal wear, where I got my high school prom tux many years earlier, fixed me up. And I'm in the deus room. Not that I was on the deus, but I'm in the deus room with Arthur. And here comes Joe Tory. Hey, joe, joe say hello to our new PR man, rick Serone. Well, joe couldn't have been nicer and Rick and Mikey knew me his whole life. I probably met him three times and I'll never forget what he said. He goes, we're going to have some fun and I'm like fun. Nobody mentioned fun, fun.

Speaker 2: 28:21

And I got to tell you something about that I got to tell you something about Joe Tory. We had some fun, and I don't mean in a bad way, I mean the dinners, the lunches, the shopping, the. He embraced it. You know you want to have dinner tonight with Bob Gibson. You want to have dinner with Stan Musial, you know, you know it. Just Do you know, Kirk Douglas? Have you met Gregory Peck? I mean, it was like so your childhood dream was even better than Bob. Oh, my God, it was. You know, and listen, I had to manage the boss. People asked me to this day what was it like working for Steinbrenner? I'm like maybe you should ask him what it was like working with me. Yeah, you know, I mean I had a.

Speaker 1: 29:02

You obviously did something. You know what. Do you think the reason was that you did become?

Speaker 3: 29:07

the Lou Gehrig of the Yankees PR. I think I thought he was a Babe Ruth.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Well, I've touched on a part of that. Oops, you're good, doug Doug, mike, mike, mike, mike.

Speaker 3: 29:12

Mike, mike, mike. What People asked me to come join Eyes Wasp? Yeah, those two are actually Дyasιαoup. I guess.

Speaker 1: 29:14

Yeah, just the fact that he's the longest tenured. Yeah, I mean you could say the Babe Ruth and the Lou Gehrig.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Okay, I'll settle for the Gehrig. But I think the reason was Joe Tory said many times and he wrote this in a book that he had been fired so many times that at just at some point you just got to say I don't care, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 29:37

I just, I just wasn't going to take, and I also thought many times he could be a bully, and the way you fight off a bully is to go right back at him. You stand tall and he will tell you. I had a very special relationship with him. I remember how his son sent me I don't know what you two guys got going, but that look I'll say. Let me say this about Mr Steinbrunner yes, he was a flawed man, but he was a great leader, and there were three to four to five times where I had no business having a job the next day because he could have said, well, in hindsight, you were right, but you can't talk to me like that and I he never let. I mean he would apologize to me. I mean I mean I could tell you stories of things that happened that you can't make this stuff up.

Speaker 2: 30:38

But there was one time in 2003 where I resigned three times in a span of five weeks over various things. Come on. One time he wanted to do something that there's no way you could do this. The commissioner would never allow you to do it. He says, well, we're doing it.

Speaker 2: 30:55

And I said this was on the phone. And I said, well, if you're going to do this, sir, I think you're going to have to find yourself a new media relations director. And his comment over the phone was yeah, you're probably right. And he hung up and I'm like did I just quit? Did I just get fired? So I went home. This was at the end of the day and I told my wife, karen what had happened. I said I don't know what to do. Did I go to work? She goes. Remember on Seinfeld when George Costanza told off his boss and Jerry convinced him just go back to work the next day, like nothing happened. I said, yeah, how did that work out for George Costanza? He got berated and tossed out of the building, so then he ended up trying to poison the guy.

Speaker 3: 31:36

So she goes. Well, that's my counsel. So I go to work the next day.

Speaker 2: 31:43

Now, the next day was the press conference to introduce Jose Contreras, and the whole day goes by. I'm working on the press conference and finally, at 4.35 o'clock, mr Steinbrenner's online too. I always answer the phone. I'll explain why in a minute. Yes, sir, yeah, now are you all set for tomorrow? I'm about. You know you're going to focus on how he'll represent the Steinbrenner. Okay, good enough. I said whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, you, and I had words. You said that, yeah, and he goes. Oh, yeah, I thought about that. He goes. You're right, we're not going to do that. No, way.

Speaker 1: 32:18

That's amazing. So good counsel from Karen.

Speaker 3: 32:23

They're usually right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:25

I'm going to give you the secret to my success, if you want to call it that. So it's 1977. The Yankees are now the world champions. I feel bad.

Speaker 2: 32:34

I was their PR director but I'm covering them for baseball quarterly. I was there when Reggie at the three home runs and I requested an interview for baseball quarterly for the Q and A which we had back then with George Steinbrenner, and I got the interview in some afternoon in November. So I'm sitting at his office and I have pictures of this. I had a photographer with me and I asked him a question about his leadership style Do you manage different people differently, do you? Oh, oh, oh. And he said in the interview. He said, rick, there are two kinds of leaders. Some are Eisenhower's and some are patents, referring to the two very different World War II generals. And then he said I guess I'm a patent. And when I was walking in my car that afternoon I can still picture the scene Thus Yankees, dated cold November night. I said that's the ticket If I ever get this job.

Speaker 2: 33:35

He's General Patton and I am a lowly corporal. And from that moment on, when I got the job, it was. I answered the phone. Yes, sir, sir, if I could ask this sir, what do you know? It was always sir. Then he got to me sir, I can't let you do that like that one time. And, yeah, sir, over my dead body. Sir, are you out of your mind? But it was always sir, and that really served me well, because I felt like it was the military and he deserved that.

Speaker 1: 34:02

He deserved that respect he felt. And didn't you also tell me, rick, that he would constantly do things behind the scenes? That was never got any publicity.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Well, he told me many, many times that if you do something for someone and more than two people know about it, you did it for the wrong reason, which you know he did. He did a lot of things for a lot of people but it never got out. Now, with him gone, they'll promote everything they do for you know it's. You know the media drives a lot of it. You know, but my hands were tied. You know you had to do things. You know, so you could have done a lot for him.

Speaker 1: 34:45

For example, give us an example of something he would do.

Speaker 2: 34:48

Oh my God, he'd say hey, by the way, this father and son, they're going to fly with you for Cleveland. I met them. They're big fans. They're going to Cleveland with you.

Speaker 3: 34:54

Well, you know, make them the Bat Boy or something, and I'll tell you, the best thing that happened is just random, random people he met For some reason he met these two people that he liked the kid or something, and I remember once I were doing that.

Speaker 2: 35:06

We're flying there and David Cohn I think it was is walking up and down the mall because the players would get their meal money and on the plane and envelope depending on how many days we're going. So let's say you get an envelope with $680 and 25 cents and people the traveling secretary wants to tell me. You have no idea when I walked the plane how many quarters I would find on the seats, but anyway, david Cohn went up and down the aisle and to every guy on the plane, 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 20 bucks and he gave the kid an envelope. So here's your meal money.

Speaker 3: 35:38

I missed that side of baseball $400.

Speaker 2: 35:41

Yeah so he did just so many things for people that he didn't want anybody to know about. And I'm gonna take a good story. So it's 1999. And I felt very good, like he thinks something of you If he would. He called me up to his office, ended the day and he said I went to Miami today and I visited Joe D, joe DiMaggio, and he's not here, rick, it won't be long, because he had a trachea or a thing in his throat but he had a tie on to see me. But he's not long. So we need to be prepared. You know, I said, okay, I want this, I want that. So one morning at 730, he had a PR man named Howard Rubenstein who did like outside of baseball PR.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Howard says Joe DiMaggio died. Mr Steinbrenner wants to see you in his office at 830. He goes yeah, now we got to do this right, you're the man in charge. I want black arm bands, I want a moment of silence, I want a video. I said to him. I said Mr Steinbrenner, sir, we had a thing out in front of legends field in Alstheimer and field called Monument Park where they had the retired uniform numbers and a little bio. I said people are starting to leave flowers and visit.

Speaker 2: 37:09

It's 830 in the morning. I said I think there needs to be flowers out there from the Yankees. I'll call a florist and you know it might not be here for an hour or two, but okay, with that. His secretary walks in, she goes. I didn't mean to overhear, but if you're looking for flowers and you want them quickly, the woman who does the flowers for the sweets is here, so send her up. So she comes up and I say this is what I want. I measured it, I'm 28 inches high, this wide, okay. So she leaves, I'm in my office and like 30 minutes later the front desk calls me. I said yeah, hello. And she said yeah, the woman is here with the flowers. Wow, that was fast.

Speaker 2: 37:54

I go down there and she's holding this little cup of flowers, like you'd buy in a hotel Gift shop. Oh my gosh, I choose before you say anything. These are not the flowers. They'll be here in an hour.

Speaker 2: 38:03

But I went from sweet to sweet and I put this together. Do you want to put this out there in the meantime? And I said no, no, no, no, no. We can't have that represent the Yankees. People will get the wrong idea. Okay, With that, the elevator door opens and who walks out? Mr Steinbrenner, Are you kidding me? This is your ideal flower.

Speaker 1: 38:23

I'll never forget these flowers, my.

Speaker 2: 38:26

Serone, you're off the flower detail. I'm laughing. I get on the elevator and the woman is like oh, so I get my office and the front desk. Hello, I'm sorry, but I explained to him what I wanted to do and he understands, he knows, he just. So I said, oh, I'm back on the flower detail. Well, the flowers will be. So the flowers went out there. So we do the thing. The moment of silence, the black arm bands, the video, the whole nine yards. And I get a call and the man that ran his suite, Dick Graff, says Mr Steinbrenner wants to see you in his suite. Oh, you know walking the suite. He's talking to people on the other side of the room and when he sees me walking he just walks away from them, doesn't say oh God. He comes over and he puts out his hand, he goes. I'm really embarrassed by the way I treated you today. You don't deserve that. You did a great job for me.

Speaker 2: 39:22

Wow, I'm so happy you're on my team and I'm like, okay, was that few, that probably did not much no with that is somehow who's sitting there, literally spits out his coat. So, I go back to my office, the phone rings again GMS suite, hello, and it's how? And he says I have known that crazy lunatic my whole life. I have never seen that in my life, wow.

Speaker 1: 39:50

Anyway, I got to ask you about my favorite George. You're like George, you are George. Did they call you George Costanzo? No Well, they called the assistant to the traveling separatory. Some of your stories are actually priceless. But how about the one God's beautiful? Are you aware of the movie the Pride of the Yankees? It's a 1942 movie about Lou Gehrig. It's black and white. It starts Gary Cooper as Lou Gehrig Babe Ruth is in it. The woman that plays Lou Gehrig's wife's name is Eleanor Wright. Teresa Wright, I'm sorry, Teresa Wright.

Speaker 2: 40:26

She plays Eleanor Gehrig.

Speaker 1: 40:27

She's Teresa Wright in this classic baseball movie about Lou Gehrig and getting ALS. It's an amazing story for me.

Speaker 2: 40:39

Right, probably, I don't want to say my greatest accomplishment. It's my greatest memory, my greatest moment. How did this happen? One year and I loved Teresa Wright, who was 24 years old when she made that movie maybe younger and a beautiful woman made other movies on the best years of our lives.

Speaker 2: 41:07

I'm watching the Academy Awards in 1998, so March of 1998 from my little apartment in Tampa in spring training. That year happened to be the 75th anniversary, or the 70th, of the Academy Awards For that show. The producers brought back every living actor and actress that had won an award At some point in the show. They unveiled it looked like bleachers and they were sitting four rows of these legendary actresses Lauren McCall and Cher and all these Denzil Watch and they introduced them from top row left to right. The last person they introduced there is Teresa Wright, who I hadn't seen in many years. This little woman. I'm like, wow, teresa Wright, she played Eleanor Garrick. We should have her throw out of first pitch.

Speaker 2: 42:13

I don't know what made me think that, but I did so. I don't remember the order of this, but I ran it by Mr Steinbreder and he went on one of those Seinfeldian Steinbreder riffs. I go yes, yes, yes. Great movie. I love the movie but, yes, go, go, go, go. He was all for it. So I had friends at the Letterman show and I called one of them, jill Leader men, and I said how do you track down an actress? Because, well, you just look it up in the agency. So she gives me the name of her agent, a man by the name of Francis Del Duca, phone number. Call Francis Del Duca and I get him on the phone and I tell him we would like the Yankees like to honor Teresa Wright, who played Eleanor Garrick, by having her throw out a ceremonial first pitch.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Oh I found out she lives in Norwalk, connecticut, which is an hour. So it's not like we're flying her in from Phoenix and she doesn't fly, we'll send a car. So Francis Del Duca's reaction was that's very nice of you, but I doubt she'll do it. I'm like why not? She goes, rick. The woman is nearly 80 years old. I said well, she doesn't have to strike anybody out, she can hand the ball to the catcher. We just want to. Well, I will reach out to Teresa and I will give it. But like, don't get your hopes up. So I'm like, basically, so the next day my secretary says do you want to speak to a Teresa Wright?

Speaker 1: 43:46

Oh, she just called you personally.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Yeah, Hello, and there was that voice of 24 year old Teresa. I'm so excited. Oh, this is the nicest thing anyone's ever done. Look, so we picked the date July 4th, such and such anniversary, 50th of the famous speech and she comes to the game with her grandson Noah. I meet them at the car and this little woman, you know, denim dress, gets out. We go up to have lunch first I get her Yankee hat, she puts it on and she says to me this is so exciting, I've never been to a baseball game.

Speaker 2: 44:23

The Wolf. I said wait. I said wait. Excuse me, You've never been to a baseball game. You were Eleanor Garry. He played opposite Babe Ruth. That was Rick. That was just a roll, One of probably two or three I did that year. When it was over, I was just on to the next production and I've never been much of a fan. Okay, so this woman is not a fan. So we take her into the dugout and she can't believe that all the Yankees are clamoring to. I give these guys credit because whether they knew her or knew of her, they made her feel like a queen.

Speaker 1: 45:01

And then she goes. We by the way. So before the first pitch there was a clip of the a show clip of her dancing with Luca, with Gary Cooper in the movie.

Speaker 2: 45:09

The place starts applauding right away. She goes out, she throws the ball. What was the reaction to the crowd? Tremendous over there. How'd she throw it? I bet she did. No, she did good. She did good. She practiced with her grandson and then Tino Martinez brought her out of Dozen Roses. She went. She watched the rest of the game in the suite and I'm thinking you did good. This was great, the end of the story. Well, now, a month later, well, two months later, it's now the end of September, we're in the playoffs and my secretary says there's a man on the phone. I can't think of his name. Off the top of my head His name was Dan. He would like to speak to you. He's Teresa Wright's son-in-law. I know God, I hope nothing's happened. And he gets on the phone. I said yes, sir, and he says Mrs Sarone, I have a problem with my mother-in-law and it's your fault. I said, well, what is it? And I said Never mind, frau, she's the queen of the radio.

Speaker 1: 46:23

She's played this son to death and he should have taken her home.

Speaker 2: 46:26

We want Mov brains. Most of you have. I don't feel its mom's problem HOW染. How long has she been served as名mad zich originer? We were as Color pessoasразу. It has happened.

Speaker 2: 46:36

I watched the'Soreadfunогure. So she comes to the game, she's in the suite and keep overman's doing like sideline reporting and he says you got anybody Interesting? I got Teresa Wright and keep overman, who's as much of a story, and they goes Teresa right. So we set up a place where he can interview her and they put it off during the game and I don't have that in memory. She's talking about her love of the game, whether you're eight or you're eighty. I love it. I love the theater of it. It was so poignant that baseball put it in a press release and put it out. So From that moment on, this woman who knew nothing about baseball, rick Teresa, writes on the phone Rick, it's Teresa, hi Teresa, rick, I'm a little worried about David His arm. He didn't see me himself last night, rick, I'm I fear that Joe's over using the bullpen. I'm like what? He's out of the gym. This is unbelievable. So Then, two years later, in 2000, derek Jeter wins the toast of the town award, the Joe DiMaggio toast of the town award from the baseball writers.

Speaker 2: 47:46

So I don't know whose idea this was, but they want Teresa Wright to present Jeter with the Joe DiMaggio toast at the baseball writers and she agrees to come. She's all dressed up, we get her. So she's sitting up there on the dais next to Jeter and everything. It gets a wonderful ovation.

Speaker 2: 48:08

The next morning her picture is on the front page of the New York Times sitting next to Jeter, and she calls me up and she says I got to tell you, having my picture on the front page of the New York Times with Derek Jeter means more to me than winning the Oscar. Wow, so the woman who played the first lady of the Yankees in a movie because Eleanor Garry was known as the first lady of the Yankees actually became the first lady of the Yankees. She was a Yankee fan until the day she died. And when she died her mother and her daughter, mary Kelly Bush, called me up and she said I just want to tell you what you meant to my mother. And she said you don't have any way of knowing this, but when you called her she had just made a decision that I've made my last movie and she made her last movie that year, the Rainmaker.

Speaker 1: 49:10

Oh wow, she was in the Rainmaker.

Speaker 2: 49:13

She was the gosh. Matt Damon, I think, lived in her house or something. Oh, Rika, but she made it. I can't do this anymore. I can't remember my lines, I can't travel. And she wondered what am I going to do with the rest of her life? And you gave her purpose. What she was going to do for the rest of her life was be Yankee, and I'm very proud of that.

Speaker 3: 49:34

You breathe so much life into her. That's so cool.

Speaker 1: 49:38

Baseball that's such a tremendous baseball story.

Speaker 2: 49:40

I've only baseball can do that, it's because it's romantic.

Speaker 1: 49:42

It's only baseball they can do this, and you've experienced fan bases all over the country through all the work that you've done. So back to your pirate days, when you worked for the pirates but also stepping away and going to New York. How is the fan base perceived in Pittsburgh?

Speaker 2: 50:03

Pirate baseball. One of the things that bothers me more than anything is the perception nationally of the pirate fan base. I'm so tired of hearing that, oh, it's a football town, oh they don't have good fans. Well, first of all, when you give them a good product, they're tremendous fans.

Speaker 1: 50:24

My answer is by the way, it's a winner's town.

Speaker 3: 50:26

It's a winner's town. No disrespect, look at my hat. City of Champions. There you go.

Speaker 1: 50:30

It's like any town in the country.

Speaker 2: 50:33

It's a winner's town. Yeah, and I was, you know, when I got the Yankee job in 1996, we barely drew two million people. We had trouble selling postseason tickets. If you look at games from back, then the right field stands are empty. So people want a winner and I think if this town, if the pirates, could have sustained the early great start they got off to last year, I think the attendance was respectable.

Speaker 1: 51:03

Oh yeah, you could feel it again.

Speaker 2: 51:06

But if they ever were in a pen and race, I think that place would be packed. The other thing is they have the best ballpark in the country. In my opinion, if there are other great parks, it's my favorite. It's the right size for the market. What people don't understand is this is a small town. You want to. You know the Yankees, all they do. Three million. Well, you got 15 million people living in the New York metropolitan area. How great. You know we don't have that kind of population.

Speaker 2: 51:39

But I just hope again that the pirates can now sustain something for a little bit. I like what they're doing. My big criticism of ownership five years ago was if you're going to rebuild, spend a couple bucks and get some reputable major league players on the roster along with these rookies, which they have now done. They've now done. They've brought back McCutchen, you know. They got Chapman, they got Roddy Tlaez. They're doing those now. So I'm optimistic and I just want to see this great franchise, as Carl Barger would say, in this great city of Pittsburgh, you know thrive for another hundred.

Speaker 1: 52:25

You will. Now you're back, so you get a chance to see it firsthand. What a treat, isn't it.

Speaker 3: 52:30

It is and you are back in Pittsburgh. Why Right? You're from New York, you love New York, you spend most of your working life there and then you move back to Pittsburgh, and I just moved here. I get it.

Speaker 2: 52:42

Those six years that my wife and I my son was born here in 1993, we're very happy years and we love everything about Pittsburgh the quality of life, what you get for your money not in everything. There's some things here that you pay more for than in New York, which kind of surprised me.

Speaker 1: 53:03

That sandwich up by your house is expensive, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 53:05

No, not that. But gas isn't any cheaper because of taxes and whatnot. But I won't mention any stores by name, but they're not any cheaper. But we had a lot of friends here. That's the great thing. I can name you 30 people that are still friends from the Pittsburgh area from when we were here and I don't have that connection with the Yankees. I didn't make lifetime friendships. I mean I made lifetime friendships with. I still get Christmas cards from Pirate Spiders, the Fishers, the Gots, the Robinson's, the Kippers, the Gag. It's just the Brains you still like. When you see them, it's like you reconnect to Dreybex. And all of those people that I mentioned will tell you you can.

Speaker 2: 53:59

Whatever I did after Pittsburgh, I could never replicate what we had in Pittsburgh, and you know that. I mean look at the crews we went on with. That doesn't happen today. You know. I mean when the pirates won the NLE in 1990, right, we went to St Louis and we clinched in St Louis. We get on the plane, we think we're going to deplane, go back to the ballpark, we deplane and the airport was utter chaos. Thousands of people. They had to make room for us to walk single file to the buses. They're shaking and then we go to the Clark Bar across from Thrier Stadium and all the players are there and while he backpins on the bar spraying it. Does that happen in New York? Are players going to the local bar in New Yankee Stadium and celebrating with the fans? No, this is. Pittsburgh is a very, very special place.

Speaker 1: 55:01

Amen, the sandwich I was talking about. By the way, by your house, you told me I got to stop by. Oh, the Greg.

Speaker 3: 55:06

Brown yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:07

The Greg Brown.

Speaker 3: 55:09

Can I give them a shout out, sure.

Speaker 1: 55:11

Yeah, tell me what the Greg Brown is. No, but we got to get the Fort sandwich. They name it. But they got a bunch of sandwiches named after it.

Speaker 2: 55:16

Yeah, they have the Stan Saverin, they have the Myron Cope, they have the Greg Brown. I got to go up there and eat some sandwiches, so I told Greg's got to go in there with me and sit in order to me.

Speaker 1: 55:25

So what do you mean so? What do you mean so in the Fort 55, we'll be on the menu.

Speaker 2: 55:29

I like it. I like Bowser's barbecue in Manaka. Yeah, terrific place.

Speaker 3: 55:35

Yeah, barbecue place. So, tennessee guy, we've been looking for a great barbecue place. I'm in, I'm all in.

Speaker 2: 55:42

Bowser's, bowser's, I'm coming. Mike Fry is my good friend. He's the head chef and good spot. Another good thing.

Speaker 1: 55:51

I mean I thought it was a great donut place. That's been there since 1947.

Speaker 2: 55:55

I found all these great spots I'm loving it, and this was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 56:02

I hope you'll be back on Hold my Cutter sometime soon.

Speaker 2: 56:05

Yes, sir.

Speaker 3: 56:05

For now, I think, a lot more stories. Oh, I know, don't worry, you're coming back here. I'll be able to get an old app from you.

Speaker 1: 56:10

Check out that next episode. Hold my Cutter with Rick Sarone Great stuff, I know. Thank you.