Hold My Cutter
Dan Zangrilli's Broadcast Dreams and Baseball Tales
Embark on a sensory exploration and heartfelt nostalgia trip with Dan Zangrilli, the sartorially savvy guest who guides us through the rich flavors of the Rocky Patel 60 cigar and the riveting tales of his broadcasting ascent. From the earthy undertones of a San Andreas wrapper to the vibrant spice of red pepper, this episode is a fusion of taste and storytelling. Dan unveils his Pittsburgh beginnings, his love for the Pirates, and how seizing every opportunity from high school football commentary to thriving in broadcast journalism has shaped his career. You'll hear how mentorship and hard work can make all the difference in the competitive world of media.
Step into the dugout of memories where we celebrate the unsung heroes and the camaraderie that define minor league baseball, from clubhouse living to the quirky characters that bring the game's history to life. We laugh and reminisce with Dan about the relationships built within the minors and how those connections morph as careers advance to the majors—from Steve Balboni's loyalty to the mutual respect shared between up-and-comers like David Carpenter and Adam Ottavino. We also touch on the significance of preparation and how it intertwines with unforgettable moments in the broadcast booth.
Finally, join us as we peel back the curtain on the art of sports commentary, where every game is a tightrope walk between meticulous prep and spontaneous play-by-play. We dissect the value of defensive players like Austin Hedges, debate the evolving strategies of the game, and examine how changes in the media landscape are shaping careers in broadcasting. Whether you're a lifelong baseball fan or a connoisseur of behind-the-scenes stories, this episode is a home run of insights, laughter, and a testament to the love of the game.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
Embark on a sensory exploration and heartfelt nostalgia trip with Dan Zangrilli, the sartorially savvy guest who guides us through the rich flavors of the Rocky Patel 60 cigar and the riveting tales of his broadcasting ascent. From the earthy undertones of a San Andreas wrapper to the vibrant spice of red pepper, this episode is a fusion of taste and storytelling. Dan unveils his Pittsburgh beginnings, his love for the Pirates, and how seizing every opportunity from high school football commentary to thriving in broadcast journalism has shaped his career. You'll hear how mentorship and hard work can make all the difference in the competitive world of media.
Step into the dugout of memories where we celebrate the unsung heroes and the camaraderie that define minor league baseball, from clubhouse living to the quirky characters that bring the game's history to life. We laugh and reminisce with Dan about the relationships built within the minors and how those connections morph as careers advance to the majors—from Steve Balboni's loyalty to the mutual respect shared between up-and-comers like David Carpenter and Adam Ottavino. We also touch on the significance of preparation and how it intertwines with unforgettable moments in the broadcast booth.
Finally, join us as we peel back the curtain on the art of sports commentary, where every game is a tightrope walk between meticulous prep and spontaneous play-by-play. We dissect the value of defensive players like Austin Hedges, debate the evolving strategies of the game, and examine how changes in the media landscape are shaping careers in broadcasting. Whether you're a lifelong baseball fan or a connoisseur of behind-the-scenes stories, this episode is a home run of insights, laughter, and a testament to the love of the game.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
What a fun addition of hold my cutter. This is going to be our old buddy Dan Zangrily has stopped and look at how fine he was dressed to the fives, because he said I'm gonna feature. He brought with him one of his favorites. This is the Rocky Patel 60 which, as Dan told us for it, scored 96 on cigar fischinato as did his outfit now Dan you mentioned the. Nicaraguan binder and filler, but you didn't tell us about the fact this is a San Andreas wrapper it really is.
Speaker 3:The pH balance of the soil in which these tobacco plants are grown yeah, really is is paramount.
Speaker 1:Yes, to the the fullness does this help the red pepper notes that are involved?
Speaker 3:yeah, I actually am getting hints of chocolate. Yes, in this a dark chocolate, no.
Speaker 1:And the nuttiness, a little little nuttiness yeah, well that's for me. I was gonna say don't we have to be nutty yeah yeah, but we love having Dan Zangrily here on hold my cutter real quick.
Speaker 3:I don't even know what I did said it doesn't matter, just made it.
Speaker 2:He go to the mountains of San Andreas to get this he did for us. Yeah, thank you, I knew. I knew you're out his guy. Rocky Patel went on a mission, yeah, good one, up to the rock buddy, yeah, my good buddy oh nice he's our good, buddy, I'll tell you that, yeah, I call him rock, you call him rock, well, rock rock, rock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I go last name hey, yeah, really, you tell us your story in the next 50 minutes 5.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, first of all are you a Pittsburgh guy sure am sure, I am born and raised dormant, proud man's right D block dormant. So yeah, I mean I was. I'm living the dream man because I'm grew up rooting for the pirates and skipping school and taking the trolley, because the trolley ran right through dormant, coming down to three River Stadium and of course field no, no. I'm not that old people always say you're kind of an old soul.
Speaker 1:I say yeah, I get that quite a bit.
Speaker 3:I'm 38, I'm 38.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no age, how about it? I mean, let's not talk age. Yeah, that's true, you're gonna anger me now you're in your beautiful golden years.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:How about that, yeah, distinguished he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm speaking of distinguished, you went to a very distinguished university oh, the Clarion University state system of higher education.
Speaker 3:That's right, hey, school right now there in.
Speaker 1:Much like I be a point-part guy there in has produced some under the radar people like yourself. Hmm, how about our buddy?
Speaker 3:Tim Tim.
Speaker 1:DeBaco, who was a public address announcer for 40 years. I think that's right amazing what a talent, and so Clarion does the job.
Speaker 3:Larry Richard. Larry Richard, how about that? My god, how about that? But big behind-the-scenes guy for pirates baseball on the radio, pj Comanche, big, big Clarion guy. I think we have some some other one, remember Bill Ray cough? He was a Clarion guy and I think over it, over DV, there's a few Clarion people as well. So, yeah, a little mafia thing that we've got going on. We had a nice direct pipeline the golden, the golden eagles once again the golden eagles. That's why you picked this goal rapper the flying hornets.
Speaker 1:I like that. I mean, what do the Crawley hornets, the?
Speaker 3:golden eagles, the golden eagles, big talons, yeah, okay, absolutely fierce, and the point park is what were they? Pioneers, oh pioneer, don't ask me.
Speaker 2:I have no clue. And you were what MTS? And TSU, that's right we're Pegasus, I don't want to see a flying horse
Speaker 3:come on okay. I get it you go to school.
Speaker 1:Clarion, do you go for broadcast journalism?
Speaker 3:I do. Yeah, I mean I was lucky, knew what I wanted to do at an early age, actually started doing some stuff in high school and then yeah, broadcasting in high school, yeah, started out own little radio station.
Speaker 3:What. What made you do that? I you know what? Because I wasn't athletic enough to do anything. I mean, I played baseball, but I started actually as a as a football guy, calling my high school's football games and putting them on the internet. This is the early 2000s. Yeah, yeah, and a little small radio station that no longer exists bought time off an older lady in Carnegie, 1590, remember that, yeah, the very end of the dial.
Speaker 1:You bought time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we did high school a hundred percent you get the money brokered the air type, went to the booster club, had the idea and then brokered the time at the cost of what? Three, four, five hundred bucks and then literally went out door-to-door barber shops and and raised the money. Sixteen, seventeen years old and my god and I had a had a nut to crack and we were able to pay our bills and we got got our schools games on the air yeah, I was lucky, I was lucky and I got there's no, there's no, there's no, and I got
Speaker 1:a lot of there, a lot of directions, so I had mentors and things that yeah, but not, not luck at all, because you know we all for in a different avenue, but you and I, in terms of like play-by-play and broadcast journalism, get the questions all the time. I want to do that, I want to do that. Well, that that's the work you put in, what you did and you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like I want to sell yourself there's some trend, I see, for both of you guys. I don't know your story as well, but is you say yes and then you put in the work, you own it and take the responsibility and then that product that you put out there is a chance to learn good, bad or ugly right?
Speaker 2:and that's what you got to do and that's the only way to gain experience, because I don't have a background in this. But the more I've done it, the more comfortable I get with the microphone, more comfortable I get when things go awry, because things do constantly. But like, did you feel like starting that young really catapulted you and really gave you reassurance to what you're doing? I know, brownie, you love the game and the more you got it and you're good from the get-go, both you guys but it's fun to see how you can mold yourself and figure out things and find that personality that you want to you bring out on the radio or TV. Do you feel like that by starting early?
Speaker 3:no doubt because, like I think, I started actually was I 16 before I had my license because I had to ride the school bus, didn't have your license to the games because I wasn't eligible to drive yet, so I was what you had to be 16 16, get a permit yeah, I got my 16 and a half, yeah, so I grew to see what they just threw it at you go to the grocery store.
Speaker 1:I'm 12 that's. Yeah, I mean you're driving matter, go grocery. Yeah, dirt road down there I 12.
Speaker 2:I looked like I was 27 three on a tree.
Speaker 3:That's when you started manual. Yeah, we didn't learn automatic in Tennessee.
Speaker 2:I like it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I started yeah, started when I was 16, I guess, and then I had a few years in high school and then had a leg up in college and I was able to go out and do some cool things in college and then got my first job minor league ball. I was a junior in college, so it was fun. It's unbelievable. It's been an unbelievable, it's been an unbelievable ride, unbelievable right.
Speaker 2:Jim Tracy obligatory Jim Tracy impersonation by the way, first big league manager Jim Tracy, was he really?
Speaker 1:yep how about that?
Speaker 2:that's pretty cool played against his son all the way through the minor leagues.
Speaker 1:I had Brian first interaction with him yeah, no comment, no. Brian, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2:Jim. Jim was great, he was very he liked the veterans he loved the veterans and I was the rookie yeah and you felt it, man, you felt it and I got destroyed as a rookie by some older guys and it's like he endorsed it more, yeah, and wanted it more. So I had hurdle and all my big good camps prior. I think I went to two or three before I got to the big leagues and then I had Jim Tracy and there's a huge difference.
Speaker 2:Jim Tracy in Colorado yeah, after he replaced her had her own behold, you end up playing for hurdle yep, exactly. Yeah, it's a small world. Baseball is a small world man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy who is your first manager?
Speaker 3:oh, and he was the best, tim Leeper. No, no, though he was, for a year, by far and away the best guy that I ever could have had Tony.
Speaker 1:Beasley not quite come on, no, no, this was.
Speaker 3:I was in the car. I started in the Cardinal organization because my first year in State College with the spikes, I did two years there. They inherited a player development agreement, though they were gonna switch to Pittsburgh, but the the first year in 2006 and State College was as a St Louis affiliate and so I was around that cardinal way, right, and I mean, bruce Mano was the farm director, jim Riegelman, while Jockety, all those guys came through, but the manager, can we guess, do you think? Uh, big liquor, you know? Yes, for like two days he was Tony LaRusse's bench coach, kind of an unknown guy, but in the Cardinals organization he's really, really revered. Oh, mark DeJohn, remember he?
Speaker 3:was and there was a young up-and-comer on that staff my very first staff that was trying to cut his managerial teeth by the name of Mike Schilt love that. Yeah, he and he. You talk about working your way up and starting by basically cleaning spikes and things of that nature. He was. We rode the bus with him. Sid Mongey was the pitching coach. Steve Balboni came through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's he is and boy you talk about getting a raw deal there and you know what, I think the Cardinals have kind of stood in it.
Speaker 3:As a result, I don't think things have kind of gone as well as they. He was the right guy for that job and you talk about a company man and somebody who, I mean, he was, he was a lifer there. But red shine, these came through Balboni, I broke red. I broke reds. Fungo playing fungo golf hall of famer.
Speaker 2:Hall of Famer. Wait, wait, wait, wait. He rolled through. Oh yeah, you broke, I broke fungo.
Speaker 3:So fungo golf. So this was so state college, obviously in Penn State they put us up in student housing but the season would overlap with kids coming back to school. So I've legitimately been homeless for three weeks, which is I would recommend the experience for everybody meeting homeless like homeless. We had nowhere to go, like you got kicked out of your place, Like where do you go? And I want so all out of host families and they wanted to make sure that they took care of the Latin American kids because of just the cultural problem when we were making six, seven, 800 bucks a month or whatever it was, and we had nowhere to go.
Speaker 3:So there was a band of us, like about six or seven of us, and I was the radio guy and had an opportunity to become pretty close to some of those guys and talk about a short season club and the names on that. We can get into that a little bit later on, but anyway, we decided to stay at the ballpark. Nobody knew. So I got a locker in the clubhouse You're like Rudy, yeah and it said and I don't know if this is a family friendly podcast, but they put a piece of equipment tape up there and it was radio bitch. So that was a top and Sal our clubby.
Speaker 3:And you had to put that up there, sal, it was actually David Carpenter. Catcher, reformed pitcher, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, reliever for the.
Speaker 3:Braves.
Speaker 1:Great.
Speaker 3:Another great human yeah, great guy and it was a double EVU guy. So we go back forever and ever. But he put that up there and we would actually sleep randomly in the clubhouse. I don't even think this might be the first time I'm ever revealing the story, but for two weeks we were on the road quite a bit. So we figured out we're going to do four nights here, three nights there. So we were homeless and we lived in the clubhouse. So, anyway, did you get the rod?
Speaker 2:Were you on the floor, yeah. So I go there were couches in the lobby outside the clubhouse.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it was brand new facility, so we weren't I was thinking about my short season oh terrible. We had a shower.
Speaker 2:Where were you, pasco Washington? Oh good guy. So we had a shower, brownie, in Zangrily, where the shower head was here and there was one on the other side and you got cut off so you could only see the shoulders down.
Speaker 1:The guy in front of you.
Speaker 2:So you're showering in mirror of the other guy.
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:That's how I got to know my teammates, really fast.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that was wild.
Speaker 2:But I wouldn't have wanted to sleep in there, I didn't want to eat in there, let alone get changed in there.
Speaker 3:That's funny, yeah, so so that well. Yeah, I actually got paired up with the players in short season of my. My roommate was two of the guys. One was Adam Adovino.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:You're like literally hitting all the great guys in the game. Yeah, no doubt he just won a great award, did you see?
Speaker 3:that no is the good guy.
Speaker 2:Good guy. He's the best, you know he was a child actor.
Speaker 3:He grew up in Brooklyn, new York, and and we actually went in Brooklyn and his and his bonus check because he was first rounder his bonus check just hit I'm making $600 and he signed, I think, for over 900. I think he was like 27 or 28 overall and his bonus check hit the weekend that we played the Brooklyn Cyclones and so. So imagine being 20, 21 years old. The bonus check hits, he's at home and he wants to show the guys a good time where Staten Island ferry ride away from doing whatever he wanted to.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was that was given a that was given a Pyromaniac, a stick of dynamite, so, but he was a child actor and he was in like Oreo commercials. Growing up as a kid I did not know that. So, yeah, yeah, and that was my roommate and a guy by the name of Van Slyke it was there as well. So, yeah, it was funny. Yeah, aj and Andy Son, andy Jr. Yeah, aj Van Slyke, not the, the other was Scotty, I think played in the big leagues with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Scotty played the Dodgers.
Speaker 3:Yep, no, but AJ also played in the Cardinals organization. So so those two it was. It was S3 for a summer. Audivino got promoted pretty quickly. He did about a month and a half.
Speaker 2:And he's nasty.
Speaker 3:But yeah, he well and he, he didn't have that gyroslider thing going on that he was a starter, actually kind of fizzled out with the Cardinals and then, you know, became a reliever and and towards the end of his career, when he was teetering on the edge, that's when he got under the edge of trying to cameras and that whole whole nine yards and rented the facility and in New York and really became one of the nastiest setup men in the game Probably still is in some respects.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Just fine with the mess. So how long were you in state college then?
Speaker 3:Two years, so one with the Pirates organization or one with the Cardinals organization, and the next year we, we transitioned to the Pirates. This is the summer of 2007 and good old Turner Ward was a manager. Oh, my gosh Burn, damn Damn on it. Man, I mean you talk about, oh, what a great. Yeah, wilson Alvarez was the pitching coach. Gosh, who was our hitting coach? Gosh, I forget, but yeah, I mean I was really lucky coming up through the system. So two years in state college, yeah, but those, I mean. Mark Dijo, you talk about LaRusse's bench coach, cardinal. Way, I mean, he was hard on me, but it was exactly what somebody need. You look back on it. Oh, tough love. Just really couldn't have asked for a better manager to indoctrinate me into pro ball at such a young age. Dj's the best, absolutely the best, how about?
Speaker 1:so so two years of state college, then to Altoona.
Speaker 3:And Altoona.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for for four years there, you skipped two spots.
Speaker 3:I was lucky, yeah, yeah, because it was joint. Well, it was jointly owned, so that I had that going for me. Okay, so we were all grown together. And then, yeah, I got. Tim Leaper was there, matt Walbeck was there for a couple of seasons, dean Tran had Hummew, dean trainer for a pitching coach for a minute.
Speaker 3:Brad Holman chicken runs. At midnight he wrote the song for Rich Donnelly. He was the pitching coach. Remember Brad? Yeah, Great, great guy. I'm trying to think of the hitting guys that were there, but yeah, Banny was coming through as a field coordinator all of those years and he was just a plus. I mean getting to know him. So I was really really lucky. So and so all everybody who helped the Pirates win in 13, 14 and 15 was there fermenting in Altoona 08, 09 and 10.
Speaker 2:So I was really really lucky you got to see some of the better teams 100% Like they won in what 09 and 10. In 10. In 10. Okay.
Speaker 3:They weren't very good in 09, but all those, all those guys coming through the system paid Ryle Brice, he saw Tabata, kutch Walker I mean Presley went off for that half season, turned his career around. All the pitchers, jared Hughes, jeff Locke, I mean who was our rotation? I mean we had Moscos on that right. Tony.
Speaker 2:Watson was there.
Speaker 3:Tony Watson was. So I picked Tony Watson up from the airport in 2007. So we came up all three levels together. So I was the first guy that Tony Watson ever saw in the Pirates organization.
Speaker 2:And we've talked about this before the minor leagues, the intimacy and the chance to get to really develop a relationship with the players. I got close with a lot of the you know the guys that were in the broadcast, that you know they wanted to know the game and I wanted to talk about baseball and get their perspective as well, and some of my greatest memories are with some of those guys that still keep up with them. And did you feel like as you moved up the ladder that started to shift? Or over time it started to shift where the player in that relationship kind of died, even with the coaches? Cause I feel like that's not the same anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the higher that you go, the less fun it becomes. I hate to say it like that. I completely agree, but Rock actually just said that. So, in short season ball man, we all piled into my 1988 wood grain paneled Mercury Wally World station wagon cause that was the only guy with a car and we would, I mean, going to and from the ballpark after the game and stuff like that. I mean it was fun. And that Cardinals team, by the way, I mean Mark Hamilton, alan Craig, luke Gregerson, pj Walters, jason Mott was reforming himself converted catcher, because I mean, for a short season club that's a lot of insurance salesman.
Speaker 1:That's a world series team, is what that is? Different players?
Speaker 3:you know no doubt I was really lucky Donovan Solano was on that team.
Speaker 2:And he's, he's really ironed out a great career.
Speaker 3:Oh, no doubt I didn't. I mean he was. He was a child. He was 17 years old, maybe Didn't speak a lick of English there. David Carpenter was on that team as a catcher, not a 98 mile an hour throwing reliever.
Speaker 2:Brunswick fastball.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean he was, yeah, he was big donkey. I'm trying to say there's a few others that I'm leaving out.
Speaker 1:Do you stay in touch with any of them? You're running to.
Speaker 3:Carpenter very close with, I mean, I talked to him.
Speaker 2:You got to tell him? I said hello, I will, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:He's a green human.
Speaker 1:What's he up to these days.
Speaker 3:He's actually managing the West Virginia Blackbeard, so he's a WVU guy. How about that? And then I go down to WVU for six years and we were kids like we never left Crazy. For 16 years. Yeah, it was, it's a movie.
Speaker 2:It's a movie that's amazing. Well, that's another guy. We're going to have him on and bring you back. What for?
Speaker 1:Carpo. What for guys on set, absolutely Kidding. We got a real mayor. He's down to WVU, come on. Yeah, it was real for all kinds of mountaineers.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's it.
Speaker 1:So how long we done WVU.
Speaker 3:Six years man, Six years.
Speaker 1:And what were you doing down there, all sports?
Speaker 3:All sports Football host. Basketball men's and women's play by play, and then baseball play by play, big deal. I mean, the baseball program was incredible. Randy Maisie did a great job. Alec Minoa saw the genesis of him. Michael Grove, with the Dodgers now, was in the rotation. You saw John Means I mean who else? You're going to see some other big leaders coming up. Darius Hill's going to get to the big leagues at some point. He's in the Cubs organization and there's going to be a few others that make their way up.
Speaker 2:Have you seen their facility?
Speaker 1:I've never been to that fall before.
Speaker 2:I just passed it and we stopped.
Speaker 1:It used to be a pirate affiliate. Yeah, it was the power and it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's all turf. It's set in the valley of the mountains. It's absolutely gorgeous. I loved playing there, you get 3,000 people in there.
Speaker 3:4,000 people Looks like 40,000. Yeah, hosted an NCAA regional. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nobody wanted to play West Virginia when I was in college Nobody. It was Because they were sneaky. And where were you? What did you?
Speaker 3:Middle Tennessee. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I mean it was Big 12 baseball we had. You know, we had Texas Oklahoma, Texas Tag. It's the best of the best when you get into the Big 12. And, yeah, they were right in the thick of things and they've done well. I mean through and through right TCUs, a lot of those guys. So, yeah, I've seen a lot of guys at the college level that are now in the big leagues. So you went pro and then went college.
Speaker 2:What was the difference, and which one did you like better? You don't have to say, if you don't want to, no, no, it's just a completely different game, especially now.
Speaker 3:It is. So it was funny. I did minor league baseball first and then I was able to get the Pirates job doing pre-post game and then I went back because I wanted to call games and then I did college, so I kind of bounced all over the place. The difference is, I mean, it's so hard because so much time had elapsed from when I was in the college thing before I was in short season balls, so that 10, 12 year span the game completely changed from 2006 to 2016.
Speaker 2:Oh, completely different.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I mean the college game was so refined and they were getting into all of the metrics and they had track man data so they were able to deploy all of that. I mean everybody was bigger, faster, stronger, more refined in college when I was there and I mean and we're seeing it now like, say, for a guy with Paul Schienes, you can develop a major league ready player by the time that they are a sophomore or junior in college. So, like we've seen in every other element and level of baseball, the development time has been shortened because of resources and knowledge and a lot of guys want to work and coach in the college game because they're just so flush with cash Like we were moving around at the college level probably comparable to how you guys are doing it at the big league level chartering flights and things of that nature and the food and the spreads and the facilities and yeah, it was big.
Speaker 2:Even more so now with the NIL.
Speaker 3:Oh, no doubt.
Speaker 1:There's just money being printed now?
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely so. It's been a fun ride, man, so you?
Speaker 1:were pre and post game, with the Pirates on the flagship and the network for a while. How many years? Five years, and then you went away.
Speaker 3:For two years, two years, and then I came back and then I added both of them, which was insanity Doing like 200 and 250 games.
Speaker 2:You added both of them. What do you mean? So I was doing West Virginia and the Pirates.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I was doing about what? 80 Pirate games. And then I did three baseball seasons.
Speaker 2:Like you Pittsburghers, I love you. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:You like work?
Speaker 2:guys.
Speaker 1:You like workers, I love workers. Yeah, that fires me up. Good thing, you might work harder. Good people.
Speaker 2:How many games you do this year? 287. No big deal.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's great. We were living in Pittsburgh, driving to Morgantown and I was just way too much, Was that?
Speaker 2:an hour and a half that is a lot 76 miles each way.
Speaker 1:Now of course white, not too curious yeah that's going to be tough. Yeah, that's not easy.
Speaker 2:But you obviously love West Virginia to be able to want to do that at first.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, and I like the university. I was never a West Virginia fan. You know what I mean, Because growing up in Pittsburgh I'd say we don't necessarily have a dog in a fight. It's kind of split evenly. This is the pro sports town, You've got Pitt, Penn State, West Virginia, so whoever's on TV you're kind of rooted for. But the whole Jack Fleming mystique was a legendary Steelers radio broadcaster, did WVU stuff and they did radio a certain way and they had a reputation that preceded it. So as a broadcaster it's like, oh, you want to get around that culture and kind of go get a master's degree if you will, and had an opportunity to run a really big college network because they were off the air responsibilities that come with it.
Speaker 3:So really we were able to cut my teeth and just a great college sports experience, which I'd never had an opportunity to get into Because I was always kind of a baseball guy, got into pro ball and stayed in pro ball and was lucky to get around major league coverage for those five years.
Speaker 2:When you say offsite, like off air, what were you?
Speaker 3:doing? Oh, basically similar to what Guarded does. For those that don't know Running the broadcast network, the logistics, the affiliate relations. We were upwards of 40 stations strong in, I think, seven states. All of our other sports women's basketball, baseball had strong radio networks. It was fun.
Speaker 2:Something. I have a question for both of you guys. I get asked all the time and I don't have an answer, because I'm not a play by play guy. If you had to give advice to somebody trying to get in to whether it's baseball, football, sports and journal what would you tell them? What is the one piece of advice your younger self needed, because I think too often kids wait for an opportunity. They do these interviews but they're not working, they're not going after things.
Speaker 3:Me. Relationships matter, would you say Brownie, and then that's paramount. It's not sometimes how good you are, it's really who you know and how well you acclimate and get along with people and how you make people feel Like that's such an underrated portion of the game, like talent is really big. Obviously Opportunities and work ethic they're so important. But I would say how you play in the sandbox. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hesitate to say it's about. It is relationships, but then I know you're not saying that. But too often people say you got a network, you got to make connections. That's not the way I did it, because I think for me network comes after you work hard, get dirty, do what you have to do at any cost, to the point where you're willing to do stuff almost for free, which I did and you did Heck. You sold at high school level.
Speaker 2:I think that's an underrated value. Yeah, Like getting your teeth in.
Speaker 1:I think then those relationships and the networking comes after that. But for those that want to get into the business of play by play, it's hours and hours of practice, practice, practice, work at it, work at it, work at it, fine tune it be as good as you can and then get your stuff out. I tell kids all the time, get it out, Especially you lucky kids that are single. Not that we're unlucky that we're married Before life happens to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can go. I tell people you can go anywhere. Do you realize how lucky you are? You can leave right now and go anywhere in the world. You're not tied to a family yet and so take advantage of that, those experiences, like you did, dan. And then you oftentimes are at the mercy of whoever makes those ultimate decisions, because if you get good enough at it, if the person likes your style good, if the person doesn't too bad, you better go somewhere else. That's where it gets dicey, so no doubt.
Speaker 2:Real quick, then we move on is both you guys. I believe the same thing about networking. We've talked about that and I think you don't have to network because you treat people well. If you are who you are and you're very transparent and you're that person consistently, I don't think you ever have to network. Neither one of you guys should ever have had to network, because you're great people. But take it one step further. They have social media, like you guys came up. We came up in the era of it starting to blossom, but there's no excuse Because you can go do a broadcast on YouTube tomorrow and I met a five-year-old that had a YouTube channel with a million followers. It's amazing. It blew my mind and I think he talked about rocks and it was funny.
Speaker 2:So, people wouldn't saw it. But that five-year-old is getting work in. It's free. Of course now he's probably making money because his parents set it up properly. But that's the reality we live in and so often they're not doing it, they're not moving forward, they're not figuring out like who am I, who do I want to be, and, like you just said, they're either going to like your personality or they're not. You can't control that. But you don't even know who you are and I use your five years. You know it takes about five years to really you know, fall into it and understand it. I would say that same thing with baseball to where you fit, how you fit. That's when I found out pretty much I was a backup.
Speaker 1:Michael's referring to what, what Mike Lang told me when I first started out of the. Pirates as broadcast, or my mentor, my Yoda, mike Lang.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, after spending a number of years in the front office in Pittsburgh, when I then went up to Buffalo and spent five years there broadcasting trying to hone my skill, when I came back to Pittsburgh I think, well, people should accept me. But after a couple of years, not really. And Mike said you got to give it five years, kid. Wow, in this town, five years, and once you get five in you're locked in. And it's pretty remarkable. That's kind of the way Pittsburgh is.
Speaker 2:And Dan, I told him that's when I moved here, don't?
Speaker 3:you agree with that and you bring that up.
Speaker 2:You're starting to think about it now, cause.
Speaker 3:I did the pirates for five years and I did 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, left. Two years later I was able to get the job back and I'm into what my 12th year, 11th year, I forget whatever it is working on the pirate, but that's. That's funny, that magic number of five here in Pittsburgh, and which I mean. Everything that he does and says, lying, that is.
Speaker 1:It's like soccer Bullseye, bullseye. Yeah, it's bullseye, it really is. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:When you left for two years, what'd you do?
Speaker 3:Oh, I, I, I enjoyed a summer for the first time in 11 years. Um, have you done that? Cause? I, I figured, and I did. Actually, I, I did fill in a couple of weeks on the pirates, so I was still, you know, I had some time down and I did a couple of weeks because Mac had had the job there for a bit and I filled in for him and then in 18, uh, got married. So, you know, did the whole thing, planned the wedding and did the whole honeymoon deal and then, um, and then there was some arranging of the deck chairs and, uh, I had an opportunity to come back, Um, and yeah, it was, it was great. So I was able to kind of pick and choose the games and and work that around the West Virginia schedule and I mean I got a. You got to get lucky with your bosses too. I mean, if you have accommodating people, then that's I mean you know, you live, live the dream where I'm able to work the schedule out and I've been doing that since 19, 19, 20, 200.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so but you're still doing the grinding, the working, you're selling, you're doing everything. You do multiple things at 93, seven the fan Katie K. You've done news Sure, Not at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's I mean, greg, that's what you got to do to survive in this, in this business, because a lot of times it's kind of you get paid as you go. I mean there's that. It's very much a gig economy. I, you know, luckily, you know, for for a while haven't had to do the whole gig economy thing, but but still you want to be able to chip in, and at our broadcast outfit there's so much to do and you just want your portfolio to be as diverse as possible to. You know hate to say it cynically here you want to try to insulate yourself, because if a sword falls or you have to move to this place, it's like wearing different gloves, it's like being a utility infield. You just don't want to be able to be an immobile first baseman. You want to be able to bounce around the field, wear different gloves so you can get your 10 years of service time.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And hang on the roster for as long as you can.
Speaker 1:So people that laugh at the yogi isms over the years. Yogi bearer, and you know when. When you come to a fork in the road, take it. People laugh at that.
Speaker 3:That's brilliant, exactly.
Speaker 1:When you come to a fork in the road, take it, no matter where it takes. You take it especially in this business.
Speaker 3:Well, larry Richard told me and he never wanted to be a meteorologist he told me the story about because he was a radio guy through and through. And you talk about mentors and people that help you out. I mean, you can't do it without those people. You have Mike Lang, I have Larry Richard Don Rebel, a high school guy like the SIDs at Clarence, like so many people that I can lean on right, the old Mount Rushmore. You know you have your, your, your people up there.
Speaker 1:Larry's a Pittsburgh icon, Long time morning radio host on KDKM, but before that was a KDK TV meteorologist and not to interrupt you, but I would tell people all the time when he was a meteorologist I said that guy is the most talented person in Pittsburgh. This is when he's first starting out and just watching him on dude, just the weather, Yep.
Speaker 2:Incredible? What made that talent Like? What made that jump out to you?
Speaker 3:The fact that he had no experience and somebody came up to him and was like hey, what do you think about the weather he's? You mean, you mean outside, no, being a weather man, but he was a radio guy.
Speaker 1:Just watching him on the air, you just see he had this. That it factor.
Speaker 3:He could do whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he just wow and so comfortable and funny and anyway. So, as you're saying, you've got a bunch of mentors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and, and you know, as long as you're listening to the advice and I think I have you know anytime that somebody's willing to talk that's been there and done that, like a Mike Langer or Larry Richard or a Greg Brown. I mean, I go to him all the time and I, you know, try to chip away and and find some nuggets that I can file away and apply to whatever it is that I'm doing. You got to seek the advice, you got to listen, you got to practically apply it. Oh my gosh, Sorry, oh party file Party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's why those coffee is good. Yeah, absolutely. A better mug of coffee anywhere in the city.
Speaker 3:So this is what McMahon was drinking on on on Carson's show.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm sorry, that was also water right there.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you I know they all the jobs you've had present different challenges, but what do you like best about doing pre and post game? And how about talking about challenging when the pirates are down?
Speaker 2:And PS, I listened to you.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed it. I love that. It's tremendous.
Speaker 2:It's right before you know my show. Like to hear yeah? He's always prepared and he always brings in great information. And I think you do a great job of the balance and sometimes that's hard. You never bury a guy, right, but you speak the truth. You give. You give the hard nuggets but you give the gold nuggets and you also give some hope.
Speaker 3:And I think, because many unique position right and just because of the reality of the pirates, the last 30 years there's been seven winning seasons. That means that there's been 23 seasons where they've not won, and in a Rust Belt city cynicism can kind of creep in. So you have to really understand and sympathize with who your listener is, to commiserate with them, to pull up a chair, because there have been far more frustrating years than there have been really good years and to try to tell somebody how to feel in this city is is is not going to work. But I do think that there also have been narratives that have been pounded lazily into people's heads that aren't quite necessarily true. I try to pay attention to other markets, other small markets, how they go about it, and I try to lay out the facts in a forum that really I'm the only one that has that platform. So I look at it as an opportunity that, hey, nobody else is really going to dead, and even on our station, and understandably so. For a number of reasons. You know they're talking primarily about the Steelers, primarily about the penguins, and if the pirates win then, yes, they're going to garner their share of appropriate airtime.
Speaker 3:But I have a specific platform to carve out with baseball fans in the city, in a really good baseball town, to try to take it to a 200, maybe a 300 level. And that's what I want to do, because I believe it creates a void or it fills a void that's been created that isn't available at 8am or maybe, you know, 11am or 2pm, so I've got a great opportunity. That's the way I look at it, and then afterwards you can get into a lot of things that maybe Greg, bob yourself didn't have an opportunity to discuss in the game. That's a long form open canvas. That's the cool part about the job, greg, is that you know you guys are worrying about the game but you have to move on to the next thing. Somebody hits a left center field gap. You move on to that, but I'm able to open it up and dissect it a little bit and go a little longer form on it and I really enjoy that and I hope my listeners enjoy that and I hope we've created a bond here over the last decade or so.
Speaker 1:Pre and post different, because pre it seems to me more guest data driven, post is more probably caller driven, would you say it is.
Speaker 3:And you're reacting to certain things. That's what just happened. I mean, you try to set up what's going to happen, like, okay, you know, say you know a great topic. I think for pre and post is somebody like Ron Zekentreris right, you know, you look at the slider, you look at the fat, you know the fastball. He's got to work on this, that and the other thing. You get the storylines and what's you know on the docket from the manager that you're looking at going in and well, does it happen? Does it not happen? You kind of unpack all of that post game and sure there's going to be. You want people to have a say in it.
Speaker 1:We have some some long standing legendary characters on the post game For example there's not, there's not, there's not a better fan in the country, Chuck is there a better fan in the country? Yeah, this is a for people. A little shout out right there, Well, yeah but he's a guy, he's a local Pittsburgh legend really. You know, he's from Union town. He's like a CPA who.
Speaker 3:He lives with cerebral palsy too and wheelchair bound yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's so intelligent. Yeah so sharp with just everything he says is like wow he spot on.
Speaker 3:He elevates what we're trying to do and there's some people to call in. Some may have had more coffee than others and you know, at that time, at that time of night, I mean you know it did. I don't know if you've seen the last of us on HBO at all.
Speaker 2:Fort have you gotten into that?
Speaker 3:I will, you know, the Walking Dead, I mean yeah, they, they, some of them can crawl out from you know, like cicadas they come out and you can have fun with them too. So you got to, you got to take what live radio gives you, and that's the other thing it's off the cuff. You have no idea what's coming down the pike.
Speaker 1:Let's not, let's not kid anybody. That sounds so much fun when we're doing a West Coast game, getting clobbered, losing streak two of us. We're going to have a week two in the morning back in Pittsburgh. Two 30 extra innings back in the day Well, when we had no run or second base to start the 10th. It could go on and on and you're thinking to yourself who in the world is listening?
Speaker 3:And you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2:You'd be surprised, but my drive home brownie I know, I know, I said it myself.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's a grind. Absolutely yeah, uncle.
Speaker 2:You're just like uncle.
Speaker 3:My goodness.
Speaker 2:But you don't get the joy because every night I get to drive home and listen to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I do, and some of my favorite ones are those late nights, because you have no clue what's coming.
Speaker 1:It's when you get punched on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you do a great job of pushing back, giving some grace at times, but that sounds like fun to me.
Speaker 1:If I could change anything about what we do or what I do, I would love to take you guys are similar in that respect because that's Fort does mainly pre and post, mainly that's what you do, so you guys can share notes on that.
Speaker 3:You were, though, I think, and I don't say some bad way, and you do an unbelievable job at it, but you were regimented by a rundown, and we have this much time.
Speaker 1:You're your own boss, michael, and. I'm kind of jealous to the producer.
Speaker 3:So and I think, honestly, were you a flourish man? And then, if you can send this to our bosses, I'm the proprietary stuff. I said my guy, we got to figure out a way because I think where you would flourish is blank canvas, open podcast form, where, because you're so well researched and you've got so much that you can offer.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean I appreciate that, I think, and somebody kind of just team you up for you know some coffee, cigars and you know, and some good baseball talk. You could throw in the anecdotal, you could throw in the objective, the subjective, a vast playing experience as a catcher, no less. You bring in a pitching. I mean you know what it's like to sacrifice your leg, as you did in 2013. It was a St Louis, I think you know what I mean. You basically gave your leg in a season for this organization, remember, he did that. He's the Cardinals, we've talked about that. So I mean, like there's a lot that you can, that you can offer in that form.
Speaker 3:And I and that's sort of I do miss the because I had Kevin Ory for a number of years, I had Jack Zarensik for a number of years kind of doing the solo thing, which isn't a bad thing. They're all good and they each have their, their pros and their cons but I do sort of miss that higher baseball IQ that I mean that you can just say you don't want to be. Well, I'm not the smartest guy in the room, right, and the goal is to set up an analyst to draw out of them their expertise, because they're the show at the end of the day. I do miss that and, man, I'd love if we could. But we'll get you on board you know what I mean and have you on. Yeah, let's do that. We're we're consummating the deal here.
Speaker 2:And you guys always do this. I would say the three amigos that do this the most are you two and Rob King, and I understand you're you set up the analysts, but you guys are some of the smarter baseball people I have met and and I say I'll even throw the show off, but I'll even throw.
Speaker 1:I'll even throw Jason Mackie in there.
Speaker 2:I've gotten to know him but like the thing is is you guys get to see it from a different globe than I do. So, like you've been around the game as long as I have you've called so many games brownie. You've been around the game, put us together and that's how long you've been around the game, if not longer You've seen things that I can't even understand, because every time you watch the game you see something you've never seen before. Usually and that's what I don't think people get is like you guys are experts in your own Right and your Thoughts and your, your opinions and the way you see the game is so cool to me Because it's my chance to listen to the Yoda side of the broadcast, of what you're seeing in a different lens, because I can't ever have that amount of time or the prep time you guys put in, because you guys work your tails off to make that work and make it a good show.
Speaker 1:Let me. It's why baseball is the best sport by far, which I want to get into with you.
Speaker 3:Let me ask you this brownie Do you enjoy? Because I go back and forth on this and I've been asked this question before do you enjoy actually calling the game More, or do you enjoy the preparation for the answer? I tell people all the time, yeah Well explain, explain that better than for me dive in it's hard to do because you I tell the story.
Speaker 1:I guess I can tell now. We have some time yeah. I don't know if I've told you this day or not. Many, many years ago, this was Steve blast quit traveling. There's a guy on the radio, a legend passed away a few years ago, named Doug Hurth. Oh, of course, remember Doug Hurth, so he was a. He was a legend in Pittsburgh as talented as they come.
Speaker 1:Incredible. And he was a huge baseball fan, in particular Brooklyn Dodgers. I guess he must have grown up in Brooklyn originally. Before he came to Pittsburgh he asked Steve if he could get Vin Scully to autograph a baseball. Well, steve went to me and said that I'm not traveling anymore. Would you mind having Vin Sign a baseball when you're out there to Doug to Doug earth? Sure, so One day. And I always Intentionally stayed away from then because as soon as he left that TV booth and walked down the hallway, dodger Stadium, that was yep sure people were not gonna let him go.
Speaker 1:So I knew he was Preparing in the TV booth and have you I don't know if you've been to Dodger Stadium's booth or not, but but it's, it's fairly similar to you've been to Cincinnati's old Cincinnati's booth where you've got the two-tiered thing. So if you walked into the TV booth at Dodger Stadium, if you walk in the Announcement at the top level, you have to go down a couple steps, sure, and he's up front, yeah, and so you could walk in and not see him. So just a couple hours before the game, I start to walk in with a baseball and I met by Boyd, his longtime producer, and he goes. Why he goes? Great, what are you doing? So I'm just gonna have been autograph this baseball.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can't do that I'll take it.
Speaker 1:He's working and I walked down. It's okay, and of course that's Vince Gully, but my goodness, how about that? So how precious those Moments are for Vint or anybody preparing for a broadcast. Where you are again. It sounds Uppity but it's not. It's not meant to be to have that alone time to prepare. Whatever time that is, if it's a half an hour to an hour at one in the afternoon in the radio booth by myself, is that's what I said to myself what this is the greatest job in the world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Sunday morning tranquility. Oh, you know when the the sun is just coming up and you know you're having a cup of coffee and you have that moment to try to Dig deeper. And I have you ever? Let me ask you this, greg have you ever gone into a broadcast feeling Adequately prepared, or that you could have prepared as best that you could, for that brought no, like there's always something left on the table, there's always like I could have used 10 more minutes.
Speaker 1:I couldn't see how long to prepare for a game. That's an unanswerable question endlessly, you guys.
Speaker 3:you guys are amazing, it's impossible to answer that question endlessly.
Speaker 3:That's why I love doing high school football as well, because you get absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing. Because I do footballs on Friday nights and I've done it for 20 years and it's really some of the most fun. I do great because of what it takes to prepare and try to put on what we we aim to do a power five quality broadcast and you don't get game notes. You don't get any of it. I mean, max preps is available and the tools and and and resources are readily available.
Speaker 2:That's just been over the last right ten years right.
Speaker 3:So what it does is it creates the need For you to call coaches, call people to dig and dig and and do those tried and true old school journalism type of Practices and principles to be able to get what you need to put on the type of broadcasts that you want. I mean it's rudimentary and at every level, from the venue that you're broadcasting to how you go about it, like the kids names, the pronunciations. You might not have uniform numbers, height and weight, like you've got to get all of that, every little piece of information. There's no media guide to reference, can't go to baseball reference. You've got to call the coaches, get it.
Speaker 3:Okay, what about this guy? And you give me a story about him. Oh, do you mind give me the parents information. You reach out to the parents you try to get to know. You know a sophomore. There's nothing on a sophomore quarterback from. You know Seneca Valley. So those I enjoy Monday through Thursday just as much, probably more so, than I do Friday night when the on-air light comes and it goes back to the minor leagues, by the way, because for me there was nothing like right.
Speaker 1:And looking back on it now you realize how lucky you had it, how precious those moments were when you were on that little minivan Going from the motel to the ballpark with six other guys and you're sitting on the bench. I'm sitting on the bench with Tom Prince, a long-time pirate catcher who has spent so many years in the minor leagues. I got to be really good friends with Tom and he would sweet sit there well before a game. And you know Des Moines, iowa at St Taylor Stadium.
Speaker 2:He's getting to the grit, oh get talking.
Speaker 1:You're learning Jackie Brown, a longtime pitching coach for the the Pirates affiliate, who was a longtime big leaguer, and the stuff Jackie would tell me this and, and those moments are few and far between at the big league level, because it goes back through the relationships you guys were talking about and I Really want to ask about your prep.
Speaker 2:But I also want to ask I thought the pandemic in 2020 really Changed everything, because that was not available anymore. It died and what did you guys do differently then? Because that's that's. That's how I learned out of broadcast and it was miserable.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't have the chance to go down and watch the cage routine or see what's happening on the field. I was seeing everything remote and I was literally learning on the fly. And that prep work some of my favorite too, because you get to dive in and see. Obviously you see a golden nugget like, oh, let's get into that more. But you guys sparked that for me most of the time because of that 2020. Now I know if you guys realize that because you guys had these other avenues that you went to, because you've always had to be able to Adapt in certain ways because of the way you came up.
Speaker 3:So I think I guess my job is probably a little different than play by play. Greg, I would think you know, from that standpoint you were I don't want to say relied upon, but I think that your platform has a much greater need for anecdotal human interest, being able to talk to players and to be able to I Hate to say it like this so try to fill time. You know that that's, that's not what you're doing, but all those stories that you try to convey, that's more of a play-by-play thing. Then I probably don't have the time, especially Pregame, to get into that, or I'm not gonna be getting into so much the human interest stuff. You can there's times for it and you can play back interviews and things of that nature, but I'm almost talking about the meat and potatoes of the game.
Speaker 3:So I don't think the the pandemic impacted me perhaps as much as it would a play-by-play guy to be able to get the managers here have those invaluable off the record Conversations, to be able to contextualize hey, if somebody's got kind of like a, a tweak tamstring, doesn't want anybody to know about it, but if they're not busting it down the line, that context is really important for a play-by-play guy to For lack of a better term protect him. You know what I mean. You know in your head. All right, he doesn't want anybody to know because he's a gamer, but he's, he's not coming hard out of the box. I'm gonna leave that alone. Yeah, you otherwise would leave that alone, as opposed to, you know, jogging George or something like that In the 80s.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:You got a, you have an obligation to to press and pull back and and and no, no time in place, like context is everything that we do, and the pandemic, I think, eliminated our ability to acquire context.
Speaker 1:No question about it, and I'll never forget to. By the way, speaking of that, it got to the point where we were so in need of Contact, conversation with the player. We finally got Jacob stallings to walk out into the press conference room, where Joe Block, john wainer, bob walk and I sat there and talked to him for about 10 minutes. It was so wild and in August of 2020, after not seeing them and doing these games without any conversation whatsoever, that's so yeah, that's imperative, that when you have the opportunity to talk to these guys, it's, it's critical and you know what.
Speaker 3:And it's and it stinks because it becomes harder and harder and harder, because players become more cynical and they look at even team guys or people in and around the broadcast pre-imposed play-by-plays. They look at it as all media. Now we're not looking to get any sort of scoop here. We would love to hear from you, talk to you, so we can get an idea of what's important to you and and tell your story and Properly connect. Put it in proper context rather than just leave people guessing. You know, an announcer can be a player's best friend, can get them off the hook if they're in it, if they're in a two for 30, but they've got, you know, a sore thumb or something like that, or they got a tendon here or whatever it might be. The broadcaster can not make excuses for them. But they could put it in proper context.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you right now, since I've Since walked away from playing, I never say I'm retired, because I just don't play professionally anymore. I'll play anywhere if you want. Want me to be in a pickup game.
Speaker 3:Just call me. Oh, you need a fed ball catch.
Speaker 2:Some of the coolest things I've ever heard is a GM calls a broadcaster, he calls a clubby on a trade, because you guys are gonna give a perspective that is more needed than how he's doing on the field, because you can find all that out. But I want to know what type of human it is. Is he gonna mess up the clubhouse? Is he gonna be a guy that's kind of a rotten egg? Or you can be a guy that helps guys thrive, especially in those two for 30s, and that's where I think you're all value of being around those guys. And those guys should understand which they're not taught anymore.
Speaker 2:During during my time we went to media training, we learned all these things of how to treat people and understand. It's your brand as a player, it's my, it's my brand, especially now in college. See what Dion's doing. I think that should tell everybody. Hey, build up the rapport and show your character Out in front. You're gonna learn a lot, kinda see what fits what doesn't. But if you treat people the right way and going back to how you move up the ladder, people are gonna keep you around and if they don't, you're gonna get at least more opportunities.
Speaker 3:You know I love watching Greg. The old videos of what Prince was doing with the pirates and he was able to get so much stuff because he was out commiserating with the team back in the day and they looked at him as an equal and you know, were broadcast better back then than they are today. Probably so If you were to roll back a tape from 1968 versus 2018, in many respects from the anecdotal perspective, and that's not casting aspersions on anybody doing the job today. It's just they had far more access to the team than we do Like. For instance, like the whole Austin Hedges thing, it was very frustrating for me because you can only dive into so many metrics to.
Speaker 3:I don't wanna say defend or justify, because I put a value in somebody that touches the baseball every single pitch and I do believe in when they say that. Okay, the preparation, the game planning, that's real. Having somebody call pitches with conviction out there on the mountain, that's all real. But everything is so quantifiable that I sought information through so many different channels to try to get more on Hedges defensive value and what he brings to the table that I could properly contextualize why they're going to roll this guy out day after day when, literally, the offensive deficiencies were so glaring that there had to be a justification, there had to be a net positive to be able to take that all on that.
Speaker 3:It was hard for me to find those little nuggets. Like, for instance, hurtle gave us something and maybe it was a Freudian slip years ago that I found that was so valuable that what was quantified was every block keeping a runner at first base, so in value, because the very next pitch when we were ground ball heavy 10 years ago that if you keep that runner at first base we have a quantified how many double plays that's turned into as opposed to a runner at second, nobody out, a runner at second and one out. I don't have an army of quants, you know what I mean running around in my basement, like the organization is. It's like give me some information and some details to try to quantify this, contextualize it, and it was like I could walk into the Pentagon easier and get top secret information.
Speaker 1:Well, for me it's good information to have from the club's perspective and from my vantage point and what my job is.
Speaker 1:I can use the word protect. We're not protecting. But hey, let's face it, they're paying the dog on paycheck. So you're not gonna rip the team. Although the team president years ago we had a, the team was losing badly, as many years ago team president called the announcers in and oftentimes this happens when the team goes bad they kinda look toward the press box that's one of the first things they do, and players do that to you too, which blows my mind. Yeah, I've got. Yeah, over the years have had that.
Speaker 1:But, he basically said they pointed out an example of what I had said on the air and didn't say what I should say. In fact, he said I want you to point out when our player is doing something wrong or bad or makes a mistake, but what I don't want you to do is to pound on it, ending at the end. That's what you do and that made all the sense in the world, like why is it up to me to pound it into the ground? Let this player beat a dead horse, point it out and move on. And that's so true, it's obvious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what I was doing was wrong and he pointed that out. And so to your point about yeah, you want that information. The only thing I'll say is I could also retort if someone said whoever it is, hurdle, whoever it is, how important is to keep that guy at first base? That's blocked. Aj Burnett could have cared less if that guy went from first to second or second to third, and his catcher is sitting here with us. He knows that too, because AJ Burnett figured I don't give a darn what they got.
Speaker 1:I want to get that guy at the plate out, so it's all a matter of context.
Speaker 2:And the depth to that is important. Going back to Hedges, I didn't get beat up much on social media but with Hedges I did, because they always thought I was protecting him and I wasn't. I was just reiterating we signed this guy for this purpose. He's nailing it. He's a gold glove contender. And PS, look back. He won the World Series. He got another deal with Cleveland for four million dollars as a backup and guess what? We would have had him back here if we would have treated him with that Pittsburgh love, because he was the epitome of what we want. It's just there's no way to contextualize.
Speaker 1:You and I have had discussions about this off the air and I'll be a Pittsburgh or I'll be a pirate fan in this case. I get what they're saying. I mean, I do too. I do too. He went to Texas. He played like two games but that was it what we didn't do.
Speaker 3:He wasn't valuable enough to the Texas Rangers that he caught and they, I agree, and they why they keep him on the roster then.
Speaker 1:Greg, Because they needed a backup catcher because of when.
Speaker 3:Why him, then why not somebody else?
Speaker 1:He was good to have his backup catcher.
Speaker 2:And I agree, and that's what he he was, our starting catcher, but that wasn't the and he was at home for four every night again.
Speaker 1:I hate to say it, but that's the truth.
Speaker 2:But they also thought Andy would be there quicker and I thought Henry Davis would be catching too, and then that made his value grow because they learned things if they listened to him and really dove in about things that are not talked about, that are not said, because he's been a part of the transition into it. But we weren't able, because of time, to ever dive into that. And he has more time. And the thing is is it wasn't as open as it should be how he went about scouting the umpires, how he broke down and really went about game planning, and how his ERA was a point and a half to two points lower than everyone else's. How delays game went straight through the roof, how everybody got better, especially our pitch staff, early on in the season.
Speaker 2:But yeah, he was not. He was not hitting. And that's the one thing that I didn't think we attacked well enough, like why is he not bunting? Why is he not moving guys over? Why is he not hitting run? And that's the one thing and like me and Mackie argue about this every now and then is we can ask the questions. You guys can ask the questions, whether they give the answer or not.
Speaker 2:I don't know and that's where the relationship with you gets.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. That's what it comes down to. I don't want to argue with them. Exactly, the manager who have the GM?
Speaker 3:just tell me why you're doing that. That's my frustration. That's all I want. It's a help me, help you situation. Exactly, that's kind of what I was getting to this is why.
Speaker 1:and then you, you, you fans and you, I guess, on the post game, you can debate it, but it's not to me to question what you're doing, because all the tertiary stuff was so bad.
Speaker 3:You know the average, even the catch and throw, you know the caught steelings. But there was obviously because they're smart baseball people. There was a net positive to all those drawbacks that they would run him out their day after day after day. Well, what are those? Now I will share and, yeah, what those are.
Speaker 1:Since he's moved on, we can talk about this. They're also. I wonder now I didn't say it then, but I wonder now, and I'm sure fans did is he getting that chance to play every day because they made that move, because they signed?
Speaker 2:That always is. I get that.
Speaker 1:That's human nature, always, always, I was in situations in my career, you know give up on a guy, you're gonna, you're gonna pound those numbers If you're an organization that signed somebody that isn't maybe producing.
Speaker 3:I don't think so. You don't think so. I think the pirates have gone for it to. They would have eaten the money because it was really insignificant.
Speaker 2:And that's a different regime. That's four, five million bucks. But I'll go back to Rod Brahas. There was a point in the season in 2012 where he actually was like you should be playing more, but they signed him to four million dollars and I was getting. I was, I was a young buck and I was getting destroyed by the questions of like why aren't you playing more? You know you have 10 homers and 112 at bats. Why aren't you playing more? And I had no answer and that's, that's all. That's all that they're. That I'm trying to say is like.
Speaker 2:I think Hedges you know he went national and talked about his time here I think being able to do it and keep it in house and being able to allow people to get to know him and listening to what Mitch Keller says, listening to Holderman and all these guys praise what he's doing, would have changed some things, but it still didn't take the cake that you needed to hit head on his offense and nobody. That's the one thing that we never got to dive into. Why is he swinging and missing? What is happening? Why is he doing these little things? It's not that he wasn't trying, dude spent hours in the cage.
Speaker 3:Nobody questioned what I'm saying is yeah, but what I'm saying is yeah yeah, but what I'm saying is, what are they working on?
Speaker 1:Nobody questioned his work ethic. He just couldn't hit worth a lick and nothing was gonna change when he came to Pittsburgh. That's what he is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what he is. There's a reason and I could have cared less if he hit because that wasn't in the job description when they brought him in that they got exactly offensively what they thought they were going to get and what his track record was. I just want to know what is so good about him defensively. Obviously, there are many things that tips the scale that we can live with. That, that those putrid offensive numbers and even on the defensive side of the ball we can live with just a terrible catch and throw a caught stealing percentage in the control of the running game. What are all those other things that Bruce Boci wanted him on the roster and that made him one of the first free agent catchers off the board to go back to Cleveland?
Speaker 3:There is something that is well known about him in his reputation that is quantifiable, that we can properly contextualize, that we as the average Joe's right that don't have all the quantitative analysts diving into that value. What is it? Share that with us like it's the Densey Scrolls that are trade secrets that are under a lot of you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go back to your question. By the way, the Texas Rangers I didn't think that the Texas Rangers aren't the Pittsburgh Pirates. You asked why. Because they could afford Correct. The Pirates were a terrible offensive team and to have him catch every day and get forward bats every day expose his weak offense on a team that was handicapped offensively. So you're right.
Speaker 2:And I think that brought it to light more. Yeah, honestly, I like that.
Speaker 1:They had the best pitching staff in baseball either, and situations found him. You can say, oh, look, how great this pitching staff is.
Speaker 3:Situations found him like a magnet. Yes, you know what I mean. Just a crucial like second and third one out.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It seemed like it just found him like you know that you try to bury it and you hide it and you try to limp that thing along. They had absolutely I mean, they were as unlucky as anybody and him finding just a high leverage situation and he was surrounded by a bunch of guys fighting to stay in the big leagues in the lineup.
Speaker 2:You know we had a pretty good top of the lineup. Cruz gets hurt, but you're looking at a bunch of guys and then you have two super prospects that are catchers that you're like why aren't they here? And Henry's hitting but he's not catching. Indy went down to learn how to catch and there's no doubt in my mind that, if not mentally more than anything, even the staff grew last year because of guy that catches. I mean, I've been in the role as a backup guy. I was never portrayed anything like him, but there's a value that's never seen, never talked about with guys that are blue guys. That's what he was, but there's no way to portray that and, like you said, being open, being transparent and having those communications where this is why look at the value he brings. Defensively it makes up and you can actually I did it but there's no way to quantify it in 14 seconds on a pre and post game, guess what?
Speaker 3:And we're going to find out this year. We're going to find out this year Because this whole Andy Rodriguez issue is, I think, a big issue surrounding the 2014.
Speaker 1:How are we going to find out.
Speaker 3:We're going to watch Henry Davis and I don't mean to disparage Henry Davis, but we're going to watch Henry Davis catch day in and day out, we'll see.
Speaker 2:That's another question.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, offense can make up for a lot of.
Speaker 2:To a certain extent.
Speaker 1:Can it? A lot of scars.
Speaker 2:To a certain extent Will it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could have played.
Speaker 3:You think Mike.
Speaker 1:Piazza was a good defensive guy.
Speaker 2:But the game's changed.
Speaker 3:But yeah, no doubt I'm so pleased. No, it has, I can say it with Lee Rosario.
Speaker 2:Say that's a great difficulty. You're rolling your eyes at the frame. No, no, Lee.
Speaker 1:Rosario Timeout. This is a great tease and a great time to thank. Oh, he did and he cut us off he played us for another edition of hold my cutter, danny, see you. Thanks, bro, appreciate it guys.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother. Awesome stuff, Awesome stuff.