Hold My Cutter
The Heart and Hustle of Jack Flash Wilson: A Baseball Life Unveiled
Every crack of the bat tells a story, and few can weave those tales like Jack Wilson, the revered Pirates' shortstop who slides into our latest episode. We're camped out at LeCom Park, the site of countless memories for Jack, and now the stage for a fascinating trip down the basepaths of baseball history. From the familial bonds entrenched in Pennsylvania soil to the echoes of Fantasy Camp laughter, Jack's narrative is as rich in passion as the sport itself. We also cheer on as he recounts the pride of watching his son Jacob step up to the plate as a first-round pick.
But this isn't just a trip down memory lane; it's a masterclass in the makings of a pro athlete. Jack swaps his cleats for a moment to share the pivotal switch from soccer prodigy to baseball prospect, tracing the thread from stomping the grassy pitches of Las Verges to stitching together a career on the diamond. The camaraderie of the game, the mentors who shape destiny, and the undeniable spirit of community service—Jack paints every inning of his journey with the vivid hues of hard work and heartfelt dedication. His stories are a testament to the indelible impact of sports on life, both on and off the field.
Now, for the grittier side of glory—navigating trades, battling injuries, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Jack doesn't hold back in sharing the tumultuous tales of misdiagnosis and the silent struggle through pain, offering a raw glimpse into the life of a major leaguer. From the euphoric rush of a home run to the grueling road to recovery, his experience is a powerful reminder of the resilience needed to stay in the game. Join us as we unpack these chapters, each a storied lesson in overcoming adversity, and discover what it truly takes to keep swinging for the fences.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
Every crack of the bat tells a story, and few can weave those tales like Jack Wilson, the revered Pirates' shortstop who slides into our latest episode. We're camped out at LeCom Park, the site of countless memories for Jack, and now the stage for a fascinating trip down the basepaths of baseball history. From the familial bonds entrenched in Pennsylvania soil to the echoes of Fantasy Camp laughter, Jack's narrative is as rich in passion as the sport itself. We also cheer on as he recounts the pride of watching his son Jacob step up to the plate as a first-round pick.
But this isn't just a trip down memory lane; it's a masterclass in the makings of a pro athlete. Jack swaps his cleats for a moment to share the pivotal switch from soccer prodigy to baseball prospect, tracing the thread from stomping the grassy pitches of Las Verges to stitching together a career on the diamond. The camaraderie of the game, the mentors who shape destiny, and the undeniable spirit of community service—Jack paints every inning of his journey with the vivid hues of hard work and heartfelt dedication. His stories are a testament to the indelible impact of sports on life, both on and off the field.
Now, for the grittier side of glory—navigating trades, battling injuries, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Jack doesn't hold back in sharing the tumultuous tales of misdiagnosis and the silent struggle through pain, offering a raw glimpse into the life of a major leaguer. From the euphoric rush of a home run to the grueling road to recovery, his experience is a powerful reminder of the resilience needed to stay in the game. Join us as we unpack these chapters, each a storied lesson in overcoming adversity, and discover what it truly takes to keep swinging for the fences.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
What a treat. This is this episode of Hold my Cutter and we're here at Lee Com Park in Bradenton, florida, and we're enjoying our special smoke. This episode is the Connecticut Torpedo Special Edition Oliva and a very smooth smoke and a good one, and our guest actually recommended this one. Our guest is the incomparable Jack Flash Wilson. Jack Wilson is in camp. He's helping with some of the minor leaguers and big leaguers. Of course, one of the great short stops in Pirates history. And what a story to tell, jack. First of all, you have been back here before for some fantasy camps in this ballpark. Yeah, it's amazing. But where we're sitting right now, you're just talking about how, when you were first with the Pirates, we were kind of sitting right in the middle of a batting cage. I think it's a cage too.
Speaker 2:There's one here, one there and then our very small, intimate clubhouse just over here. I think it's like a grayish, bluish building. But yeah, those are good old days. It's obviously changed a lot.
Speaker 1:What's it like to be back you can sit yourself because you play with some other teams. But is there any doubt? I mean, you were drafted by the Cardinals right, spent a lot of years with the Pirates. Silver Slugger, 200 hits guy, will get into that. Then you're traded to Seattle. Spent, I think, your last years with the Atlanta Braves. But do you consider yourself a pirate? Oh, 100% you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. I love the same moves organization just as much as I love Seattle and Atlanta. They're amazing people, amazing coaches and awesome cities to play in, but nothing like here. This is home. This is what. This is where we are. We consider it our family home. I grew up a thousand Oaks and that's where we went in the offseason. But if you asked our kids like where they grew up, they'd say Pennsylvania. So we're black and gold through and through. We're a little green and gold now Just a smidge. Green's as cool as black.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so no, it's because his son Jacob, a first round pick at the Oakland Athletics in 2023 and he's on the fast track. He's gonna be a big leaguer. It is so wild, first of all, to even to see him other than like a little league uniform, but to see him now up there talking about being first rounder you and your wife Julie, and talking to it, it's just so surreal for those of us who've been around a long time. And it's a little different from Michael McHenry, because for it you two didn't your paths never crossed as players, right? How did you get to know Jack Flash Fantasy?
Speaker 3:camp. Oh yeah, we were. I mean, I was told you guys need to meet. I think you've heard the same thing and then we just kind of hit it off as friends. I looked up to him kind of like a big brother and kind of leaned on him in a lot of different ways and just kind of grown from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's. Fantasy. Camp is an amazing time. It's something I really enjoy. Anytime you get to put on the the Pire uniform really is special. It's been special to me ever since I left here. You appreciate it more when you're playing. Days are over, you know, putting that thing on, seeing another number two or old school number 12, you know like getting to put on the jersey again. So Fantasy Camp brings that back. And then, obviously, being here for spring training has been just a lot of emotions, a lot of. I stood at Shortsaw the other day before BP started and I just stood there, which is cool because when I look this way it looks the same. I just turned around.
Speaker 1:That's a great call you look toward all the way I'm like.
Speaker 2:This is I mean ours and honestly too, we didn't have the. We had a half field but we didn't have the big field back here. And so a lot of our early work that we did when we, when we had moved from Pirate City to here, you know, in the middle of spring training when games were getting going you did a lot of work early in the morning here and stuff. So I just spent hours and hours and hours every year standing in that one position like looking in that direction. So I just just well, you know there's a lot of emotions just standing there and just reflecting and it's really cool.
Speaker 1:Let's take a trip down memory lane with Jack Wilson. You go to Oxnard College and you're drafted in 1998 by the St Louis Cardinals I think a ninth around there. Yeah, All right, Oxnard College. I was unaware when you played that we tried to be prepared for these games. I don't recall ever saying the same school that Terry Pendleton, Kevin Gross, Tim Lakers spent a little bit of time in the Pirates organization to catch her. But tell us about Oxnard College and being drafted by the Cardinals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of one of those things you look back and you're like, wow, this was all kind of like this storybook kind of way it was written. So the way it all turned out I can look out. I went to Oxnard College because my parents were to fight me Do your homework. Do your homework, get good grades. And because I didn't, I had to go to junior college.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you didn't listen to your parents.
Speaker 2:I was the guy that was literally. I would just find out I needed 2.0.
Speaker 1:All right, I'll get a 2.0. Exactly, and just on that line. You're right on my level.
Speaker 3:I knew it was going to be like Jackass.
Speaker 1:We were in the baseball season and the teacher knew I was a baseball player.
Speaker 2:She came up and showed me my grade, which I wouldn't say what it was. It rhymes with F and she goes dude, do you need me to make this a? D so you can play?
Speaker 1:And I'm like that'd be nice and I'm doing all the calculations.
Speaker 2:I'm going to carry the 2.0. No, that's 2.0 with the F. No, we're good, you can keep it.
Speaker 1:I've earned that. I did, I took it. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:She just looked at me because back in the day your baseball class started at what's a class, so you automatically got an A for being on an athletic team. It was your PE grade, so that got me to my 2.0 every year. But dad, don't do that. Do your homework, go to school.
Speaker 3:We dropped the PE grade.
Speaker 2:We'll get back to that. I'm sure you got 100 in there, but Moore Park College was actually really close. It was about 15 minutes from where I lived in Thousand Oaks, but what's it called Moore?
Speaker 1:Park College. It was a junior college.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, but the Oxnard College coach had a. He had his, a way of getting his players to the next level, whether it was pro ball or going to a four year school. And he would just. My brother had gone to Oxnard but he would come and he would come to the house, knock on the door and we were.
Speaker 2:Oxnard College was 45 minutes away but he pursued me and pursued me and Moore Park was a pretty good program but it was just like they expected, just to get the local guys, because that's just who's going to drive the Oxnard every day to go to school and just to play baseball. But because this coach, pat Woods, because he did that, that got me bought in because I wanted to go to the next level and play baseball after two years of junior college. So that's what. That's what made me make that decision to go there for the two years and it was the best decision I ever made. I mean, obviously it was a forced decision in a sense with the GPA, but yeah, but it was the best decision I made to take those trips every day. It was worth it.
Speaker 1:By the way, what did your folks do?
Speaker 2:for a living. So they were both originally from Texas. They both originally from Texas, both moved to Thousand Oaks and met in high school. Oh my God. And so, yeah, so we were, our whole lives were in Thousand Oaks. My parents went to Thousand Oaks high school. My uncles went to Thousand Oaks high school. I, when me and my brother, went to Thousand Oaks high school. Jacob would end up going through Thousand Oaks high school. So, but yeah, they were postal workers. My dad worked at the window, so he was the guy that you went to to go mail stuff off. And then my mom was a sorter in the back.
Speaker 3:So yeah, and you, for all one part, you coached Thousand Oaks. I did coach Thousand Oaks, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, holy, full circle, full circle. Man, love that place. That's, that's where, kind of everything. I played football, soccer and baseball there and I watched my brother go through there before me a couple of years before me and we just we love that school and we love everything that they're about and we still follow them to. I still follow them on Instagram and follow their high school team playing baseball. So, yeah, we love this. Is Marky Anderson, right, marky?
Speaker 1:Anderson from Thousand Oaks. He's the whole of fame. Yeah, sure, the Reds and Tigers.
Speaker 2:Also Thousand Oaks guy. Amazing, they got nerd out of it. Yeah, on baseball stuff.
Speaker 3:Sure Soccer yeah, you're, you're all about feet.
Speaker 1:We're going to go baseball a bit. No, no, I was just going to ask that because I remember when Jack came to the Pirates I had not heard much about that, but he kept impressing on us because we asked him why are you so good with your glove? Well, it's his feet and it's soccer. It was a big deal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go into that a little bit because I I'm a huge believer with catchers, soccer. I played soccer a little bit growing up and getting to know more with my brother because he's a certified national youth coach. Right, he's really opened up my brain to like how much it could help guys understand their feet, the movements, everything else, because you're controlling everything with it. So go into that a little bit, because I've seen your feet. They're still good at 41 years old 46.
Speaker 2:He still gives it. He's given me five years, which is great Do that to me, give me 10.
Speaker 2:He's over there at 45. So when I was growing so my my main sport my whole childhood all the way through high school, was soccer. Baseball was second by far because it was the soccer we could play year round. Baseball wasn't year round at the time and that was my passion, that was my love. My goal was to one day play professional soccer. So cool, I loved it.
Speaker 2:My brother was the baseball player. I was a soccer player. We would go out to the park on the weekends with my dad. He would bring the. Yeah, my brother, andy, would bring the baseball stuff, I would bring the soccer stuff. So I'd be like all right, I'll hit a little bit, but when are we going to take shots? Like I was a goal scorer, so I wanted, I wanted to take shots.
Speaker 2:I was on an incredibly nationally ranked high school team called the Las Verges Falcons. We went to every major national tournament Like we were. We had like real deal. Yeah, we had like 15 or 16 guys I think nine or 10 of them and applying professionally and that was like from age like 12, 13, 14, because before that you just play AYSO and all stars and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But that was my passion, that was what I wanted to do and then, as time went on, like understanding there was no MLS and so you had to be good enough to play internationally, and over time that showed that that probably was a good chance that that wasn't going to happen. And then, right about my junior or senior high school was kind of where I'm like well, I think baseball is going to be my best chance to continue to try to be a professional athlete. So then we went down to all baseball at that point. But soccer was, and I'm both my girls are soccer players now. So it's like the best thing ever, cause I get to go watch them play the game that I love, and I love baseball, but like if my whole child who was surrounded I was going to play soccer. So that's interesting.
Speaker 1:That means that you grew up, grew up not a baseball fan, even of the baseball hero.
Speaker 2:No, I watched. I watched World Cup, national teams. I went to World Cup games. I, when it came to LA, I think it was in 94. We had the World Cup in LA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was really didn't pay much attention to baseball. Kurt Stillwell, who you probably remember, he went to 1000 Oaks High School, so he was our local hero. So I followed him in a sense, but not really the game or I didn't really get serious into it. I was good at it. So when I was off from soccer and I was playing Little League, like I was, I was good at it, but it didn't feel the same Like to me. Scoring a goal was like like hitting a grand slam. It was so cool.
Speaker 2:I mean, to this day people asked me like what's your favorite memory about you know playing sports? And they were talking, they're thinking they're going to get a baseball. Answer like going to the all-star game, like I was. Like actually I was 12. We were playing. I was 13. We were playing the USA Cup, which was a huge travel soccer tournament for all club teams from all over the world and it was in Minnesota. And in soccer you have group A, group B, group C, just like the World Cup, but there's always one group they call the group of death, which means there's four teams in the group and three of them are really really good. So some team that's supposed to move on won't move on. They call the group of death.
Speaker 1:It happens every year in the World.
Speaker 2:Cup. So we get placed in the group of death. There's something like two or 300 teams, but we get the number one ranked team. The national team from Russia, number one ranked team in the world, hadn't lost the game in two years. We get them game two and we beat them two to nothing. And to this day I've never been able to replicate the feeling I had when we scored our first goal and then we banged a second goal and all we did is we said you know what? They were all six foot six foot one, speaking Russian. And back in the day we're like all watching those 80s Russian movies with like our own sports thingers.
Speaker 1:It was unbelievable. It's like.
Speaker 2:Rocky.
Speaker 3:Fork. They all look like Drago.
Speaker 2:I've been one of them and we couldn't understand a word. They said it was super intimidating. But we're like do you know what? Every time we get they get the ball. We're going to slide, tackle and put them on the ground and we just out and muscled them and we beat them to nothing. And it was the most unbelievable feeling I ever had.
Speaker 1:I still get goosebumps Now what about contributions to those two goals that you have?
Speaker 2:I didn't. Actually I didn't do. We had two. We had a superstar stud that played a plate over in England, chris Sawicki, and he put two. We put a, put away a header with a header on a quarter kick, and then he, he, we had a like a scuffle in the middle of the ball, kicked down and he banged one home just under the bar. But it was. But like, yeah, we were, we were so pumped I never had that much energy before like we were just hitting them so hard, like we're like no, what, we're not gonna be intimidated, we're just gonna go ball out and it was a great game.
Speaker 1:It was unbelievable. That what's unbelievable is like your greatest moment. Yeah, your life is sports, he says a 13 year old. Yeah, so us who played little league Certainly appreciate what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, but just like, like you said, it's like the miracle on ice. You're like you're, you're not supposed to win this game and you just had a bunch of guys that believes in ourselves and to this day, we still have a text thread our team. No, this day on we still have a text read with that team how?
Speaker 1:many guys.
Speaker 2:I think there's about about 15 or 16, that's so that team went up to high school and we stopped at high school. Then most of the team went to Westlake High School and I was the only one from the team that went to the rival to high school because I had to play. Then I had to play, I guess, then, which was like great and we never beat them, but I always scored on our goalkeeper, which I never let him down. I never let him remember, like forget that every time I played against our goalkeeper on that team I was able to punch one away on him. So I was pretty pumped, but we're gonna have to do that though I played goalie.
Speaker 3:When I when I play, I love it, and in Tennessee the season's over laughter. I think I really would have done it because all my really close friends played. Yeah, when I was there, they ended up being number one in the country. Yeah cool for me to watch them and someone went over. Some will play them a while, so it was neat to see and everything you're saying is like, man, I can imagine. I remember the first time I saved a goal yeah, right, and arrival game. And I'm 13, right, right enough.
Speaker 3:And it was so cool. They came up like tackle me. Yeah, there's a big deal. So you it was like whoa, that's my first real experience. The first time I did it, he scored seven goals. We're playing a 14 or 15, like I guess you team that you know. They just absolutely annihilated me up covered in dirt. So yeah, it is a tense sport, it's a lot of fun and that's really, really cool.
Speaker 1:Wow, so the idea for a pregame for you absolutely yeah. I'm doing goal and Jack's good transfer definitely score on me, but I'll try my best. I got.
Speaker 2:I got really lucky. It came first. So soccer is huge in the Pacific Northwest. It's the number one sport up there. So when I played in Seattle, the Seattle Sounders of the MLS is a big deal. I mean they sell out like they get. They set attendance records every year and I actually got to go train with some of the players.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, yeah, at the end of the at the end of the year, I think in the end of 2010 I got the season was ending and I got to go out and they were still in season. So I got to go to their practice facility. They gave me the full kit, the whole nine yards. I brought my own soccer boots is what they call it and I got to go take shots on Casey Keller, who is a four-time USA national team goalie. It was the best.
Speaker 1:How'd you do?
Speaker 2:I did all right. I did all right. I got. I got some compliments from the coaches, cuz, like I was, I was banging some home, which was cool I think Casey was letting a couple go in to make me feel good but just the experience of being out there with professional soccer players, that was my, that was my dream, so I got to experience my. I got go to practices. So that was like a huge deal for me.
Speaker 1:It's so wild. I guess the Pittsburgh Riverhills maybe weren't. No, I don't think I'll remember I don't there yet they weren't there yet, or I never, I would have gotten.
Speaker 3:Let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, we got to get to the story about Jacob, as I might as well go ahead and do that right now. We'll battle over the soccer player, your son, who's now part of the Oakland athletics organization first round pick in 2023. He's about 11 years old. This is going into the 2014 baseball season. It's when we have a pregame opening day ceremony. We bring in former gold lovers, I guess, and all stars that we do a ceremony and you're in, so tell us yeah so I, they called me to give.
Speaker 2:I Guess I was the last silver slugger award winner. So that's what I was a silver slugger. Pedro wins the silver slugger. Bonds has come back for the first time to give the MVP to cut chin, okay, um. So we, we go out there and we find out there's a penguins game the night before and it's absolutely Jacob's 11th, 11th, I think it's 11th birthday, and we I had taken Jacob over there when I was playing to go over to the melon arena Back when it was the melon arena and watch some skate stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So he, we kind of had like he met Mark Andre Fleury back at the day and Sid when he was just starting, and so we go to the night game the day before the ceremony, the opening day, and Owner puts us in the suite. It was awesome. He says, hey, if we win we can go down and see the guys end up taking home Taking on the victory went down and Sydney kind of just like came over. You know he's he loves baseball too. He's a he's a baseball fan. I got, you know, met him again and he remembered a little bit that he met Jake back in the day when he was a little little guy and he's like you mind if I take Him around, I'm like I got no problem. Throw a couple pucks out of the goal.
Speaker 2:So he takes me like 20 minutes and meanwhile I'm meeting all the other guys. I'm like do my kids gone and he comes back? He's got to sign Crosby Jersey and a signed stick and it was a special moment for me, but for him too. I mean Jacob's. He's grown up in clubhouses so he knows a lot of players and I've introduced him to a lot of guys. But there was some special about Sidney Crosby and that was the word behind him, and at that time he's become one of the best players in the NHL and that happened pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:So then the cool thing fast forward. You know, jacob gets drafted and he goes off and he plays a ball in Lansing, michigan, and he wants. Now he has this off season he's never had before and we're trying to help him navigate. What an off season looks like so different, because there is no off season in college baseball. You play pretty much a year round. It's season, summer ball, fall season, I mean it's nonstop.
Speaker 2:So he's like what do I do with myself? So I'm like hey, we just do some trips, meet up with your friends, whatever, enjoy stuff. So we come up with this idea of the last trip before spring training. We find out the penguins are playing in Vegas. So I'm like, hey, let's get some guys together and let's go to Vegas hang out for the weekend, but go see the penguins play. So we get hooked up. And I'm like, ah, you know, danny Kroll used to be a clubhouse kid here. He's now one of the main equipment guys for the penguin. So I reach out to him I'm like, hey, what do you think about? Like we're going to come in Like can we come to like morning skate? He's like, let me check so we get clear. We're going to morning skate. So I'm like, oh, dude, we're going to see Sid again. It's been a while.
Speaker 2:Then I had this idea like wouldn't it be cool if Jacob were to give Sydney Crosby an autographed jersey of his? So I had an Oakland A's number one Wilson jersey made up. He signed it to Sid. Thanks for the incredible memories. He made a huge impact on me and best of luck, whatever signed it.
Speaker 2:And so we met up with Sid after morning skate and gave him the jersey, kind of like a full circle. We wanted him to know because I'm sure every we get to an athlete and he's made such an impact on this, on his game and on the city of Pittsburgh, and then this was an opportunity for us to show our appreciation to what the time he took for Jacob when he was a little guy. The special, that stuff was plastered all over his room the sticks, the jersey, the whole nine yards so made a huge impact on him and so we wanted to say thank you. So we were able to meet up with him and get him a Jacob Wilson jersey and he actually was really cool about it. He was like generally he was excited to get it.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know if he's going to learn or not.
Speaker 2:He remembered Jacob, which was great, and I think Janet Cole reminded him about the meeting and stuff. But he remembered him from back in the day, so it was a really cool moment to have that exchange.
Speaker 1:Well, I have heard that from other people in those Sydney Crosby they say it all the time that there's just nobody like it. He's just incredible for being one of the greatest hockey players ever. He just doesn't miss it, he gets it. And that's what I remembered about Jack Wilson and why I'm friends with Michael McHenry for the same reason because you guys played at the highest level of baseball. Major League Baseball never forgot where you came from. You never forget what's important, and that's people. And I remember Jack. I think I want to say we're in Indiana, pa, but I remember being at a table at a restaurant after another autograph session at the care of the winter caravan, yeah, eight inches of snow.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we're back in the day.
Speaker 3:Michael, we had players come in. Oh, I could do a couple of them before they stopped, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So I remember toasting Jack, because we call him caravan Jack, because it didn't matter it didn't matter.
Speaker 1:Again, what happens and I'm not blaming these guys, it just does Life gets busy. But what happens is we come up as a rookie young player yeah, I'll do it. You come in, get excited to do it and you get paid a little stipend, whatever it might be, and a year or two goes by and maybe that player is elevated and gets bigger and it becomes a big leager in air quotes. And then you want to come back to Pittsburgh. No, I'm good where I am, but Jack always came back and anytime we have to do anything. And that's why I asked you about your parents. Yeah, must come from your parents.
Speaker 1:Absolutely you passed that down to Jacob, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's a responsibility. You might think it's a responsibility and some people look at it in different ways, and I don't blame people for looking at it a certain way. You want to, like Charles Barkley comes back without role models, and that's OK to have that theory too. I'm not saying that's wrong. I feel like these people come out and they support you. They spend their hard earned money to come out and they support you, and there's no better feeling on this planet than looking out there and having somebody wearing your number in your jersey. I mean, they've invested in how much they enjoy watching you play and my parents are the same like I felt like when I was affected by players that I would meet at a young age.
Speaker 2:Kurt Stiller made a huge impact on me because he made time for me when he would come back to Thousand Oaks and I would see him take ground balls getting ready and he would talk to me and I just remembered how that felt. Like I felt so special that a big leaguer who's one of the best in the game he was an all star from our whole town would give me the time of day and I would just want to talk baseball or go through baseball cards together and to this day I have a relationship with him. He works for Scott Gouris and I see him all the time. He scouted Jacob like the whole night. I still see him To this day.
Speaker 2:I give him a huge hug and he had a huge impact on me and I was like, well, if I ever got to that point, I remember what I felt like, what he made me feel like by him taking time out from me and I said, if I ever got to that point, I would want to replicate that as much as I could, to give back and to give people a chance to talk or say hi or answer a question or something like that, or sign an autograph. I always felt like that. That was instilled in me from my parents and from really Curt Stillwell and how he handled me when I was just a little kid just wanting to learn from a professional shortstop.
Speaker 1:It's funny because you have a mullet, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think about time Michael Jordan was my idol. I was throwing out a pitch. I don't remember a lot of the moments, but I remember my mom got me an opportunity with her work to throw the first pitch because she couldn't throw, and so I got there and he signed it and I didn't even understand how big the moment was. I didn't really think about it. But looking back and reflecting, it's like here this guy is, he walked over to me. I didn't ask him to. It was a moment it was probably kind of a God moment that said, I want to play in the NBA now. Obviously I'm a high challenged. That wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 3:But, at the end of the day, whether he did that throughout his career or not. That moment said to me is like I'm a nobody. This happened and I want to make sure I always give back. And then I think both of us have a strong faith to say it's kind of our obligation. This game's given us so much. You said that to me time and time again. Why would we not want to give it back?
Speaker 1:Where was it? By the way? Where is this Michael Jordan meeting?
Speaker 3:It was in Knoxville, Tennessee, a Smokies game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my mom's work Was this, when he was playing baseball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was playing baseball. Yeah, so he was the visiting team he was visiting team.
Speaker 3:And he came out, he came over, saw this little kid that was like probably a wild Tasmanian, and gave him a handshake. I didn't even ask for autograph. I was panicked. And then somebody grabbed something and said ask for autograph. He signed a piece of paper. I still today Don't know where it is.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I was a kid, I put it in my pocket and probably got washed up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're getting some power washing done here, by the way, but I was so enthralled in the moment, like you said.
Speaker 3:And then there's different guys throughout my career. I'm back in middle Tennessee. I'm spending time at night listening to. These guys are in the minor leagues chasing their dream, and they're just giving me a time of day. I'm putting the ball in the tee.
Speaker 1:Well, I just, I just I'll never understand how any human doesn't remember that. I don't understand them forgetting it. I don't understand players passing up kids. They don't do it a lot, but I've seen it, you know, and I'm not going to show you specifically, but it's different. I know it's way different this day and age, but just having watched it, the guys that do it and do it right, you two are great examples of that. You get. You get drafted out of Oxnard College by the Cardinals. So I imagine you become a. You know you've invested in the Cardinals, do you think? If you're, when you start playing Pro Ball Jacket, eventually you're going to be? And who was there was the shortstop of the Cardinals that. So they had Edgar Reneria for an end of the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was OK, he was.
Speaker 2:OK, yeah, actually when I got drafted they had those two guys and they had five short stops in the top 100 prospect. Oh, thank you, and I'm like I call my agent my age. Is this a problem? And he's like he's like no, st Louis likes veterans, they trade all those guys anyway. He's like you're going to get traded anyway.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I mean Reneria just signed a four year deal. World Series winner, amazing player. Fernando Venue was a phenomenal second baseman, great lead off. Bitter. I had a plan against those two guys after I got traded, but he's like. He's like you understand this game. The odds of you making a debut with the team that drafted you were just low. And he said Tony LaRusa loves veterans, so you brought that up. How funny you say that.
Speaker 3:When I got drafted, I was told it's very rare for you to make it. It's usually the second or third team where you stick with. Yeah, and I don't think that's talked about enough. Everybody gets so locked in on where they're at the moment, which is good to a certain extent, but we don't think like, hey, there's other teams out there, yeah, that's a really good.
Speaker 2:You're playing for their 29 other teams. Every time you step on the field, I'm like, really, I didn't know better. I'm like, well, yeah, ok, sounds good. It's like two years later. Honestly, too, it was crazy because, like, two years, it's crazy. It was two years later. Yeah, it's not. So what? Are you 23? It's 23. When I broke, yeah, I turned 22 in the December and then I made the team here. I came over to Altoona. Halfway through AA. I traded over to Altoona. I played for Lloyd in the California Fall League. Lloyd was in the Cal League. That one year they had that California League, which is basically the Arizona Fall League for A-ball players. So that's how we met and we had a nice relationship and he believed in me as a player so much that he orchestrated the trade from Jason Christensen to get to the Cardinals, because they needed a 10-perimeter and Jason Christensen, a reliever goes to the Cardinals in July 29, 2000.
Speaker 1:And do you remember when you were told you're being traded and what your reaction was?
Speaker 2:We had an off day. We had an off day, so Julie and I was just hanging out. We were just hanging out at the department and I got a call from the AA manager at the time that I was playing for in Arkansas, saying that I traded. And then, as I flipped to the sports center, my name came on the ticker.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, I'm on the ticker. This is real, is this real? I got to show you Dot Wilson. I'm like let's go, I've been traded and it said AA.
Speaker 2:And then there was all these like oh, like, he's a Marc Loretta-ish type player.
Speaker 1:I'm like dude, I'll take it. Mark Loretta's awesome.
Speaker 2:I didn't know you did cops on this, so I'm like who saw me play?
Speaker 2:to say that I was a Marc Loretta guy, so it was kind of overwhelming. And then you're like, next thing you know, you're packing up your stuff, jumping on a flight going to a place called Altoona in Pennsylvania. I've never knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about it. I'm like, ok, and I started. I remember buying a baseball America just so I can look up the AA Altoona stats to get the names of the guys that I was going to be playing with and kind of just see the five-agency. I had a bottom magazine so I'm like I was right there. I'm like, oh, let me see who some of my teammates are, and then just looked at their stats and be like, oh, and I might as well just say I don't mind.
Speaker 2:Well, because HYZDU, you're like has it do, it has do.
Speaker 3:So he was hitting like 350.
Speaker 2:I'm like this guy's good. You know, there was Rico Washington, there was Rob McCovieak and there was another McCovieak. So I was trying to get a little bit of stuff to when I showed up, but I had to meet everybody for the first time. We were playing in Portland. I had to meet the team there. I think it went over five and struck out three times. I was like yeah, nice trade.
Speaker 1:Good job guys.
Speaker 2:They put me in the three hole too. I'm like dude no pressure, no pressure, but yeah, it was kind of it was a whirlwind, but it was amazing that I went the next year that off season Funny story I get invited to Pirate Fest right as a minor leader. So now I'm on the prospect list or whatever, which I didn't really know much about, and I'm with JR House in the basement where they put the minor leaders to sign on across over at the science center.
Speaker 2:Son is a very bottom and JR House is like Mr Football, like number one prospect a tature, and I'm like, yeah, he's got cards.
Speaker 2:I don't even have a card. I'm like, dude, I'm just signing random stuff. I'm here, jack Wilson. Oh yes, this way, sir. The best part about it is I had never other than being in Florida. I'd never really been on the East Coast so much at that time in the year. So I played in Potomac, virginia, with St Louis. I was in Peoria, illinois, but never in. I think it was January. We had Pirate Fest or something. So I literally showed up for Pirate Fest. I was on the flight in a t-shirt and shorts, coming from Southern California.
Speaker 2:I got off that plane, I'm like, oh my gosh, and I had nothing packed. You didn't think about it either. Julie came with me because I'm like we got to do this together and we were both in so-called stuff, not even thinking about it, my God. And I'm like, oh, this is different. We need to go to that store and buy some sweats. I need to go buy jeans and a nice shirt. I'm like it was crazy. But that was my first time in Pittsburgh was at Pirate Fest. I'm like, man, this is different. It's really cold. But I remember that was my first taste of being with Pirate fans and in the Pirate Fest. That was cool. That was 2001,. And Jen probably did, yeah, so it would have been 2001.
Speaker 1:Did you go to AAA at?
Speaker 2:all no. Well, I did I ended up remember because I made the team in a spring and then it got dominated. I mean I'm like, oh, it was that first week.
Speaker 3:What did you learn from that?
Speaker 2:That big lease is hard. Oh, they're really good. I had a good spring. I had a good enough spring to make the team. I played good defensively. I think he had like 270, 280. It was a good spring.
Speaker 2:But I had my place set up in Nashville. I thought I was going there. Our car was set up to go there, julie had set up my apartment, the whole nine yards, so I made the team. They told me on the last day I'm like I'm going to Cincinnati and I'm like so we can cancel all the Nashville stuff. And I'm like, hey, we're going to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2:So I thought the whole time I was going there because I hadn't gone to AAA yet and then just got feasted on like punchy, punchy, punch, like air here, air there. How long I was there for a month and it was the hardest thing I'd ever gone through. And in the paper, like, is Wilson ready to be here? I'm just dealing with that for the first time. Being on TV, making airs on TV. You were carrying that weight. Yeah, and honestly I didn't carry that weight in a sense, just because I was always like all right, what are you going to do about it? That was always my thing. Like you can either complain, you can pound, or you can do something about it and get back to work. So I would go out to early work, otherwise you could die. Yeah, I know. Yeah, right, so I would go out to early work, I'd go out to early hitting and I'd just try to figure it out and honestly, I just wasn't ready. I just wasn't ready for that and that's not easy to admit. But this is cool.
Speaker 2:I go in and Kambonofa calls me into the office. We're playing the Giants. He's the general manager. He's the general manager. We're playing for the Giants. He's like hey, playing against Giants at home. I just want to bring you in here. We believe in you. Just, we're going to give you the day off, but we want you to just relax, just be. You're here because you're you. You're having to tough go, but it's part of it. I think I was hitting 180. It's part of it. But relax, You're not going anywhere, we're going to ride with you. You're our guy. I'm like cool, not knowing this at the time, I had been to a car dealership earlier that day and I wanted this used Mustang. So with my first check I bought a car for Julie Because she worked so hard to the minor leagues, working jobs so that we could live together. So we didn't have roommates. That was our, we were married and we were not going to have roommates. So she had to take jobs at Chili's, at a bank, at a kindergarten, a kindergarten player.
Speaker 2:There's the best, aren't they? So we could make enough money to live on our own. So my first check I took her and said, hey, this is our first check, and she said we're just getting what you want. We got a little SUV, a little Ford Explorer. It was awesome. Then the second check comes, because it's like towards the end of the month and I'm like they had this red used like 1990 something Mustang.
Speaker 3:It was like $5,000. It was like a candy apple ad too.
Speaker 2:I love this car. I've always wanted this car. I'm like I love Mustangs and I'm like I can't pull the trigger right Because I don't know I think I'm going to send down. So he tells me all that stuff, I came bonafide, so you just need to relax.
Speaker 1:I literally go back and get myself over with it. Julie Go, get the car, get the car, don't come to the game I'm not playing.
Speaker 2:Go get the car right.
Speaker 1:Day off perfect timing it gets better. No, it does.
Speaker 2:So we play the game. She gets the car, she brings it right to the stadium. She brings it.
Speaker 1:I get called into the office after the game.
Speaker 3:We get sent down to Nashville, it goes to Carthage.
Speaker 2:No, this is the best, so I get sent. They literally changed their minds and I'm like crap, it was three hours.
Speaker 2:I just literally wrote a check for FireGram for this Mustang. I bought it out. So I'm like, are you going to leave? Oh, whoops, so I go. I go to Julie, no-transcript. So we're going to Nashville, but here's where it gets. So I'm like I got this car and I'm like I have all these emotions right. So a half of it is like, dang, that sucked. But the other half is like I'm excited to get back to work and now it's going to be a lot easier. I'm not on TV, I'm not fighting against bigly pitching, so I get back to that. I'm driving back with Julie to our apartment in the new ride. She's got her car. Honey, here's what we're going to do right now. I need you to call your mom. I need her to fly out here. I need you to pack up this place. I'm going to drive to Nashville tonight. I got to go. I literally have to get back to work. I can't handle this. I got, I got sit down and within three hours I was on the road driving to Nashville, tennessee, by myself. Just, completely. Just let's pray and just get on the road and just following the light lines until I got tired, pull off at a truck, stop, fall asleep, get back on the road.
Speaker 2:Marguerite Brown is in Nashville. He's the head coach at the manager in Nashville. I have him in Altoona and I literally walk in the office just like, just like, hey, skip, ready to go. He's like what are you doing here? And he's like you have three days to be here. You're supposed to be here in three days. I'm like, bro, what do you want me to do? Catch a pirate game. I need to get back to work. I'm like can I play tonight? He said absolutely not. You're not even on our roster. I'm like can I take our balls? Can I hit BP? He's like yes. I'm like, can I pinch it? He goes no, you're not on the roster. I said can you get me on the roster tomorrow? He said yes. I said good, went, checked in the hotel, came back for early work, hit BP and then the next day I was on the roster. And that's why I love him and that's why I couldn't handle it, because that's the only way you do it, because I couldn't fix it when I was going through. And, honestly, the first week I was on the road driving to Nashville and I was killing it. I was having fun playing baseball again and that was my key is enjoying it. So much so I don't think I've ever told you this so much so.
Speaker 2:I get the call from Marty Brown. He said hey, we got to get you on a flight. You're going to join up with a team in Detroit and I asked and I said to him where for Do I have to go? And he said what I said do I have to go? He's like I don't think I've ever called out a guy up to the big leagues, gave him the call and asked him. I was like bro, I go up there, I'm hitting 180. I'm probably having 94 fielding percentage and I'm also getting a little bit of a razz in the clubhouse, which is part of it. You know the, the, the hazing back in the day was part of it.
Speaker 2:I didn't mind that I didn't mind that it was. It was tough, but it's also a part of it, was part of the game at the time, so I dealt with it, it was fine. But I go up there. I'm like I feel like it's going to not going to enjoy it as much. He's like Jack, whatever you're doing right now, whatever happened in the past, just go be. You go do exactly. It change absolutely nothing. Don't look at the scoreboard, just go play. I'm like, all right, fine, I'll go to the big leagues Unbelievable.
Speaker 2:But that was me. I loved, I loved the game, I loved having fun and I was having a blast down there. I was doing well and I'm like I'll go back up there and I just feel like I felt like that month would be rep would be replicated, you know, in that feeling I had which is not being good enough. But then I just kind of when he said that I just like, all right, just have an open mind and just keep going and playing, and then every other than rehab assignments never came back down. Okay.
Speaker 1:So you go to Detroit then and you play against the Tigers? Yeah, remember anything about that.
Speaker 2:I did my first home run. I did my second day against yeah, steve Sparks, knuckleballer. Your first home run of a knuckleballer, yeah, at Detroit.
Speaker 1:At Detroit.
Speaker 2:That's right, but I think I think what's really cool is Todd Ritchie came up to me right in the dust, right came right up to me. He's like I'm so happy you're here and I was like dude, I was, I didn't hear his behind you guys Probably made a couple behind him but he was just like he was excited for me to be back and he felt I think he believed in me and what I could do defensively and I was like for our ACE at the time, our pitcher, you know, we had like Jimmy Anderson, but he was like I think he was our ACE, I think he might have been our opening.
Speaker 1:He was the opening. They started just going to say so for him to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had just basically met him out of training and yeah because I'm back and I'm thinking, okay, like some of these older guys are giving me a pretty tough time, but they were cool. They were like hey, welcome back, cause I felt like they followed they kind of saw what was going on and how I was doing.
Speaker 2:But that that was special to me, that Todd Richie said that to me, Cause then I then I went out and I the rest of the year played really good defense and just started to figure out the offense and stuff a little bit and then, yeah, that was, that was it Did that home run really relaxed you too.
Speaker 1:Was that a big deal? No, I honestly relaxed.
Speaker 2:You. Yeah, todd, it was, it was it was really rich comments.
Speaker 3:And it was something to be said when a guy that has time comes up and believes in especially shortstop or a catching position where, like, that, defense is so important, and when, when he says, yeah, cause I remember when I came to the Pirates I had Paul Mahal on sheet and he said let's go win us a baseball game, me and you today. Yeah, everything went like okay, yeah, all right, let's go win a baseball game Then we won like seven in a row and it was like that.
Speaker 3:Those moments mean more than you could ever imagine because, yeah, do I belong? Yeah, they traded for me, but I'm the eighth guy Right, and I was like he had that experience. I made the Opie Deirache. You only do that once and you struggle and then you go down a ball out. I get it Like that's, that is a pure moment because you've seen the other side and that's so cool because that he probably has no clue how much that meant to you and how it elevated you to another level.
Speaker 2:He probably doesn't remember you he probably you're in Senate but it made a huge impact on the feeling I had the nervousness getting back to that level again and, dude, like Detroit back in the day, like you had Weaver yeah, I mean I'm not saying it's back to this, but it was just like I'm just going to keep that same positivity I had, that same. Just be like I can I belong here, I can do this, Like I'm going to go through some lumps and anyway, Dave Clark was our hitting coach and he helped out a lot with understanding. Like it's going to be a grind, it's going to be difficult, but you just got to come every day and just be willing to learn and be willing to just understand that it's part of the job. But come out here and just catch the dang ball. Just catch the ball and we'll worry about hitting, but just catch the ball. I'm like, all right, I think I can. I can do that.
Speaker 1:Well, jack, now how does spring training in 2001? He said you were surprised because you probably see your work as you guys are set up in Nashville. But do you remember that moment at all that it was Lloyd McClellan? Yeah, does he tell you at some point the very end hey, you're on the club. How does that work? And what was your feeling when you were told?
Speaker 2:that I think he thought he was the one that told me, but it was Pat Mears that actually told me.
Speaker 1:Oh, so we played yeah.
Speaker 2:So we're playing. I think we have two games left and we're playing. We're stretching before the second to last game and it's kind of shifted to where I was backing up Pat Mears as short and then they were experimenting with moving Pat Mears a second, and then for the last week and a half, two weeks we were starting games together and me not knowing anything about how spring training goes. I'm just like I'm just trying to, just trying to take it all in Cause. I still think at this point I'm just trying to get ready for my triple A season.
Speaker 3:So this is your first big.
Speaker 2:this is your first big the camp, first big the camp. I'm not even looking between the lines like why is Pat Mears a short stop for his whole career playing second? I didn't even register that way?
Speaker 3:I didn't even think that way, that didn't know how to consume your.
Speaker 2:That's not what he even told me. I'm like, oh dude, I'm starting today. I'm like Pat Mears playing second for like the third day in a row. I didn't even think about it, and then how?
Speaker 3:naive, we can be Right, so good.
Speaker 2:So Pat was also really cool about like he was probably not happy. He signed a four year deal and he's having to slide over for this young kid and he. I never got that feeling from him the entire time I played for him, like he was upset about moving or anything like that. He was always so gracious with him and Mike Benjamin helped me out so much with taking me in and talking about like being a shortstop and understanding, like to teach me the nuances of the position at that level and I never got that from him and I always thought he was one of my favorite, one of my favorite teammates, even though we got only got one year together, because he was always that guy to put his hand around my shoulder when I was, when it wasn't going well.
Speaker 1:It was Pat Beers. And that funny because the perception yeah, I like Pat Beers, some people. I think he wanted to win and be so good that he focused on that and maybe rub people outside the clubhouse the wrong way.
Speaker 3:Everything changes inside that clubhouse, of course.
Speaker 2:Well, it's also, too, people, when you sign a contract and it ends up not working out, we think it like we think so badly of the player, but he's still a human being. It's her hotel and it's like you know.
Speaker 1:it's not like we're trying not to do well, in fact the opposite is true, and he had that accident too. Yes, he had the handmate when he is trying to play.
Speaker 2:He's wrapping up his back because he can't grip with his pinky, because he's got this injury and you're like, but hugely impactful on the on the beginning of my career and then trying to help me navigate, both on off the field because Joe, joe Beimel and I were the only rookies. So pictures, pictures had Joe Beimel and then I had guys like Pat.
Speaker 3:Joe Beimel had me as a rookie.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget it. Yeah, and Pat never gave me any hazes, like he was not far, like one of those guys he was trying to help Kevin Young was enormous for me, just just giving me encouragement because I was the only position player in that dugout, so like I was the guy you're going to pick on and thank goodness for the Bose noise canceling headphones that came out that year Because I needed that to just be like all right, they're going to wear me out right now and it's okay, I think.
Speaker 1:I told him I'm going to cut these bad boys off.
Speaker 3:I told you that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they, they wore him out.
Speaker 3:I've heard a lot of the stories, yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know, we'll get into philosophy about society in this day and age and no hazing and stuff like that, jack and Michael, because I remember when that was taken away essentially. Yeah, I remember where we were when when the hazing happened. Now, if you were at the club then, but it was basically taken away. There would be no more of that and but that's what makes you who you are, it molds you. You were tougher because of it.
Speaker 2:You got thick skin. Yeah, honestly, I understood that that's what they had to do when they were rookie. Yeah, right, yeah. So I understood the problem.
Speaker 1:I didn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't take it personal Right, even though some stuff, I think, went over the line. I was still living a dream. I was still playing major league baseball and if this was part of it, it was part of it. It lasted long.
Speaker 1:It lasted two years, which I thought was like come on A little much, but it was cool Like hey you love this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we talked, we've talked about how you make the adjustment. You either you do your accepted or you do something about it. So second year, just a couple of guys still stealing my clothes and trying to get me to try this out.
Speaker 3:I love the story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm like, all right, I did it for one year. Back in the day too. We would walk through the airports before 9-11, where now we're going right, we would. No, I'm sorry, we were going on the tarmac. So then 9-11 hit, and then that year, the rest of the year and the next year we had to walk through the airports before they started putting the screenings at the stadiums.
Speaker 2:So we're walking through the airport. It was the perfect time to just dress up guys all the time. And I'm dressed up all the time and I'm like this is your two. And I'm like I'm just going to take it and I'm like, nah, it's not happening anymore. So I would show up. If we're playing on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'd show up early Friday before anybody can get there, and I would hide a suit in the clubhouse somewhere. Oh, a great move. So then when they would take my suit sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't, but if they would take my suit I would have my secondary suit.
Speaker 2:So this time we're in Cincinnati and Mike Williams, I don't know. Hey, Mikey was all start closer for us. Yeah, Good, dude, I understood what the process was. I don't take it personally, yeah, but I got to the point I'm like, all right, I'm going to start doing this. Sometimes I didn't need it. I would just go get it and put it right back in my carry-on. But this one time they did it and that was like a Hooters outfit and I'm like, oh, that's going to be good. So I get done showering and there was like and it's hung up on my locker and I'm like I'll put my underwear on my sauce on, walk back to his back room, come out, and I'll walk by Mike Williams Like, yeah, you guys are going to have to do better than this.
Speaker 2:Oh, and just fix the tie and walk right by him and they just looked at me and they didn't do it ever again. That was it.
Speaker 1:They stopped, you got that one. So I'm like, dude, you guys are going to have to up your game. Man, that's so good, you're going to have to up your game Such a great story and they're part of what they want. Yeah, right, right, right.
Speaker 3:Right, right, he gets it.
Speaker 1:That's how you get back, but yeah sometimes it goes way too far.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was a baby on one of the trips. I dressed up like a baby.
Speaker 1:Oh, literally, yeah, You're a baby. I was a literal baby. Did you act like a baby too? I had a typewriter Passing fire.
Speaker 3:I had it all and I had to serve everybody on the plane the entire time and it wasn't like just call right. We went east coast, oh. So you know it's a two and a half hour flight and I'm serving, but before I even left they held back the flight and we had to go serve at a local bar before what? Yeah, and yeah, it's one of those things. And then I had to get off the bus and walk him out of the hotel. That's what it was. In New York, we would have to get a drop-off and we're like we'll see you at the hotel and then make you take your suitcase man.
Speaker 2:I'm in a diaper.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. Yes, Because I think about New York.
Speaker 2:It wasn't too awkward.
Speaker 1:Because everybody was kind of dressed up. I didn't stand out. Actually, People never looked at you.
Speaker 3:I was in either St Louis or Milwaukee, I don't remember, but yeah, so I stood out a little.
Speaker 1:It was hard man, but there was a bunch of, there was like six of us.
Speaker 3:It was hard.
Speaker 2:I mean it was part of it.
Speaker 3:You understood it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jack, you mentioned Todd Richie did start that game in Cincinnati. Your first big league at bat was against a Spaldo Fernandez, I believe. I think you struck out your first time, but then you got a double yeah.
Speaker 2:Second at bat.
Speaker 3:Second at bat. What's the win that comes into your sales?
Speaker 2:after that it wasn't, it was coasting into second and having Barry Larkin come say congratulations, oh.
Speaker 3:Barry Larkin yeah, that's so true, I hit. You're like I hit what just happened. Mr Barry Larkin, yeah, yes, yes, I hit the bat, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Which was even cooler because four years later I get my 200 hit through the season at Cincinnati. And who comes over? Barry Larkin.
Speaker 3:Come on. Wow, you can't, you can't make it up.
Speaker 1:Who.
Speaker 3:Barry Larkin that year.
Speaker 2:That year Barry Larkin makes the All-Star game. He's going to retire. Barry Larkin makes an All-Star game. He goes up to Jack McKeon, who won the World Series with Florida the year before. He says I do not want to play a defensive inning because Jack belongs on the field, because Edgar Renteria won the fan vote and you had Barry Larkin. He's like, give me an abat, but Jack, because I was hitting 330. Edgar Renteria, he was hitting 270. I was, I think, top five in the National League in batting average. And he went to Jack McKeon and said hey, I'm happy to be, because he was hitting 290 that year. He was doing great. He's like I want the abat, but I want Jack to play the game. He deserves to be out here. So I got two abats because Barry Larkin told the manager to put me in and set him. That's why baseball is amazing. He's the guy that shook my hand and my 200 hits at the end of that year.
Speaker 2:Remember we closed 2004 in Cincinnati. I need one hit going into that series. I need one hit for 200. And I got that hit. I shot it, it. It, shoot it it right. The last fly ball out, last out. I got to second base and there's a picture. You can look it up. If you look up Barry Larkin and Jack Wilson, and it's him reaching out his hand Congratulations me for my 200 hit, he's the same guy.
Speaker 3:And his last abat in Barry Larkin.
Speaker 2:So this is all, barry Larkin. Barry Larkin's last abat, his last abat since he that year. I dove up the middle and we turned a glove flip, double play on him and it's very last Come off it, come on.
Speaker 1:No, oh my gosh, have you seen him since? No, I don't think I have. He's a color analyst for the Reds.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to tell him, but I remember diving from the ball. I'm like I should totally let this go because it's he was only going to have one at bat. It was the first about of the game and I remember diving and hoping that it would bounce.
Speaker 2:So it's so it'll be he's like holding out his hand and I remember like he's only going to have one at bat and then he's going to like address the entire same and like the fifth inning or whatever. And I remember reaching out, hoping that it would bounce over my glove, and then it went in my glove. I'm like sorry, Barry. Everything slowed down for a minute right, and it was also set the record for most double plays turned by a shortstop in Pirate's history. I'm tired of you.
Speaker 3:Like oh, it's all very Larkin. Love this game sometimes yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm like gosh dang it Unbelievable. So when?
Speaker 2:he's addressing the team. He's addressing the stadium.
Speaker 1:He goes up press box like the press box. Hope with I like it with a microphone, like where the press box is.
Speaker 2:He goes, he starts talking to everybody. Looks down, I'm on deck, there's between innings. He's like it's like I want to one last a bath for you guys to get down. He's like but jack took my hand, I did.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:Because I'm listening the whole time. This is very larkin and like we've had these little, these little like moments that were hugely influential for me, like the best, one of the top best short stops of all time, maybe top 10 short stuff of all time, and very larkin on how amazing he was and it was funny because Kurt's too long got traded because very larkin came through the Cincinnati, so so Kurt still had to get traded because very larkin came in. It's like all like, all intertwined. It's crazy, it's crazy. But yeah, yeah, I have that picture in my house.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to tell larkin that story Wow.
Speaker 2:I have only have a couple jersey sign and he's one of them and he wrote this huge long message like I'm like yeah very man.
Speaker 1:Oh man, love that guy. So good, yeah, so you got the. You actually got 201 hits that year. Yeah, yeah, I ended up getting hit the next day after that night, yeah, and that's incredible that that I didn't realize. It looked it up before this episode that it was the first pirate to collect 200 hits since Dave Parker in 1977. It's unbelievable. And they're only like nine. Uh, nationally shortstop. He was the ninth nationally shortstop in history to collect 200 hits in a season.
Speaker 2:That's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah and jack, because you're known. When you came to the pirates we all know so pirates just got a great defensive shortstop before even made it to the big leagues that was the word. And when you first got to the big leagues and then you have this incredible year and you really have it's almost like your defense overshadowed your offense. You were a solid offense, a player too.
Speaker 2:It was. It was funny. I I tell these I talk to kids a lot about adjusting your game for different reasons, different things, and understanding when you look in the mirror. What I want to get better at my entire mirely career was was offensive. So I opened up and John said I hit 370 and won a batting title. The next year in a ball I hit 340. I was the guy that got two hits every game. If I didn't get two hits I'm in the cage, because if I went one for four there's a problem. I had a I julie and I. We had a blanket that in in our apartment that I hung up and if I didn't get two hits she's soft tossing me in our living room In a ball like I could not handle not getting two hits.
Speaker 2:So I was kind of hard on yourself a little bit, just a little bit, but I was, but that was my forte. I was not a good defender. I made 30 something errors in air ball a ball. I was athletic, but the routine play was terrible for me. But if you hit it to my right or my left, I can get my feet.
Speaker 2:I can make a cool play, but I was not a good defender until like double a where it started to kind of click how to control my body in a in a manner that was controlled and not wanted to be a good, I did.
Speaker 2:I loved every bit of it. I loved every minute of it. So I get to the big leagues and I played my first year 220. But I'm playing decent defense, decent enough next year. And the thing is catch the ball, catch the ball, catch the ball, don't worry about hey. So it became okay for me To hit 250 because they're asking me to catch the ball, they're not expecting me to do something, and I buy into this, one of my worst mistakes I think I've ever made. I bought into Understanding that I'm here to catch the ball and the defensive is secondary, because that's kind of what they're asking me to do and not so many words. So, sure enough, 2003 comes around. I got to go to arbitration, which one of the worst experiences ever. It's just a tough situation for both parties.
Speaker 1:They got to argue against you. You got to argue against them.
Speaker 2:And then you're supposed to shake hands and hug afterwards, like you don't have to be there, you do.
Speaker 1:You have to be. Yes, they change that.
Speaker 2:You have to sit there In two or three and a half hours. She brought the headphones with you, I know.
Speaker 3:He should have had those headphones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know he left through arbitration.
Speaker 2:It was tough, it was really tough. You gotta go play for that team. Their job is to tell you how bad you are and I was told in that in that Arena you got all their people mlb plus pirates, your people, your agents and then your panel here and I was you Are the worst shortstop in major league baseball. That's hard Dang. Wow. I thought it was pretty decent, but I understood the business side of it. I was prepared by my agent that it's business, it's not personal, but you do kind of feel like Then why am I playing for you like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so bad yeah but I got.
Speaker 2:I. I understood, I understood it. But then I was like, all right, let's just spend the entire offseason, just bang it, just swing, because I spend my. If I you're gonna ask me to catch the ball, I need to be a great defender. I'm gonna take on the zillion ground balls and I'm gonna be a great defender. I'm gonna do something about that. So all right, then I went off season. I'm like, all right, you want to swing it, let's go. And I went back to that same thought process. I am not not getting to it today. So I go over one against Kevin Millwood.
Speaker 2:Opening day against the Philly the Luffy affiliates in 2004, I go over one. I hit a base it up the middle In probably three or four. Today I'm hitting eight. That was the last. That 0 for one. That first about was the one and only time the entire season that I did not hit 300. I went one for two. Am I batting it? I went one for three that day, but that one for two, that 0 for one, was the only time the rest of the season that I did not have a 300 batting. I went the entire time. The very year you went into arbitration you did that. That came back the next spring training and said all right, fine, because their message was hey, you can keep on picking it, but if you don't swing it a little bit, your trajectory in your career look a little different. So it was just basically Just changing my entire thought process. On offense, I mean like fine, so I hit more than I, but I also have my worst defense in year.
Speaker 1:That year I hated that I hated, that I hated not making that I made. I mean I was.
Speaker 2:I think I had 17 years, but before. I think the most I ever made was like 14 or 15. That bothered me. That bothered me then so, but I so I had to find that, that median where I could try to keep Cheap this, the hitting part of it, and then by also by also staying on the fielding, but then the worst thing happened. The worst possible thing that can happen is I go into that offseason now to you know, two or three or eight, 200 hits unbelievable. I said I'm gonna do this every year. I'm working twice as hard as I did the year before, twice as hard as I did going into 2004. This is gonna happen every year.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna make sure it does. And I am Rock solid, I am strong, I'm doing Pilates, so my core is strong and I'm killing it. Sure enough. December 21st, appendicitis I get misdiagnosed, they don't catch it. Next thing you know they put me in the machine. So, appendicitis, you have this. You feel like there's a knife in your stomach. It's the most painful thing I remember written. Do it and then all of a sudden the pain goes away, which basically means your appendice burst you know how poison throughout your entire stomach. They find this out I'm in the emergency room. I go eight hours before I see a doctor. This thing. Now I feel fine, like pain's gone, but they're like, hey, we're gonna put you through this machine and they do the machine. And then they do the machine. And then I got three surgeons coming in in blues, going we need to get you on the surgeon table right now and they got to cut open all of like. They got to cut me open to get all the suckers, every Pilates thing, every muscle I had, because I can't walk. For seven to eight days I can't walk, I can't work, I can ride a bike.
Speaker 2:By mid-January I got spring training happening mid-February. Everything I did, the entire offseason was gone. I show up to spring training at 177. Holy, I was loving, I was none 95, just ready to go for another all-star year. I'm this is gonna happen and I am. I hit the ball. It goes nowhere. I am exhausted all the time. I go through spring training just trying to gain weight and I, I am fast as I'll get out, though I can move. Oh, you're right, it's unbelievable. But I am a rail and I'm like, and so I went through all of 2005 just trying to fight, trying to get strength. You're fighting every day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's that's, that's tough and I like they're, they're making, they're writing all these articles about it and stuff like always a one-year wonder. I'm like.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying, like, then I go that year I think I hit like 257 and you're like, oh, that's it. It was one year deal. I'm like man, I tried, I, I tried everything I could and then I was like man, it's just, it's just the way it worked out that year. It was so tough to go through because I didn't want to be noted that I wanted that to keep happening. It's why I was working so hard. I didn't want to sit on it. Be like, oh, I got it made. Now I hit 300. I wanted to keep doing that because I knew that was gonna help us win games If I can pick it and hit. And then that one year I'm like, gosh, dang it. Like that was the worst. I was because I had that thought process. I'm like I'm gonna do this every year and I was gung-ho and I was like man, I lost everything I worked for for three was three months without the window. So just like that, I'm like man the next couple years, it's 270.
Speaker 1:It's 270.
Speaker 2:So it was, it was, it was good and I and I I liked it and I just like that. One year I was just so upset because I felt like I felt like I did the right thing because I you sometimes, you see, in this game somebody has success and then they sit on it, they come back the next year and it's just like, oh, you obviously didn't continue to work and I'm like that is not happening.
Speaker 3:I didn't know anything about you. We know you did the right thing. Yeah, I'm like easier thing to write about and talk about it. Yeah, he's the same old guys, everybody else.
Speaker 2:I made the mistake of being truthful with a reporter. And we like dude, do you know the appendix? That really set me back and that's all I said, not knowing that the entire thing was written. Be like, oh, we're just making excuses, like, and I just got blown up and that changed my thing about press from then on out. Oh really. I never talked to that reporter again Really because I felt like it was a trap situation. I felt like he wanted me to make an excuse.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I was just having a conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm like just I'm just battling what happened in December. It's a it's a continuous battle to get strength back.
Speaker 1:That's the stuff for me. Yeah, from the press box is Trying to under realize that there are things going on physically for you guys that we're not aware of and you don't want to make excuses. That's why I love guys that play every day. I think that's just so cool. I love you. The story that we can talk about him. We could see he destroyed his knee that one game, right, right and and and he's done. And he comes back and he goes out and catches like three or four more innings. How's he doing that? But didn't want to come out of the game.
Speaker 3:It was for to. And same same thing with jack. When I was a pirate in 2011, I came in and in the first game I threw out a guy. Next game, I threw out of the guy and I had a slap tear in my labrum that year and I didn't realize I was. I was told to take a little time off. When I took that time off, I couldn't raise my arm up. Come back 2012, I can't throw the way I could and I didn't realize. But I didn't know how. I didn't know my feet. I didn't know my hands. I didn't know what. I just always was naturally gifted to throw the ball wherever I wanted it. I never told anybody until I got to play.
Speaker 3:I think the only person new was my wife, my trainer and maybe banny, and banny spent every day in 2013 out early. Every day I threw the bases. I got banny. This is what I have to throw because let's go every day. We went out through I think I did that year maybe right at 20% for the mar leagues. I never threw under 35 40. So it was weird for me and you're right like I was getting destroyed and I didn't know what to do is. I didn't know how to handle it. Luckily I had rod too and he he was at the probably the end of his career and he said man, so yeah, like we all go through that and I think sometimes Trying to be the team guy can hurt you, uh, but at the end of the day, like it's a fine.
Speaker 3:He's fighting and the wear and tear you took that year. Nobody will ever understand now. And it because, like that, fight to get back to the weight and do those things so hard and when you're tired, every day you're doing it. In fact you get 250. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, make sure you like and subscribe this jack wilson episode. There's more. There's so much more that you'll hear. On another episode we talked about his relationship with freddie sanchez, the trade to seattle, his career 9 11 pnc park baseball is all about the stories. Jack wilson has so much more to tell you. On hold my cutter.