Hold My Cutter
Rob King on Authenticity, Baseball Passion, and Broadcasting Legends
What if you could discover the essence of authenticity in sports broadcasting from a seasoned expert? Join us as we sit down with Rob King at Burn by Rocky Patel, near PNC Park, and light up a Rocky Patel Special Edition cigar. With candid discussions about Rob's career, influences from legends like Mike Lang and Dick Enberg, and his time as an adjunct professor at the Newhouse School, listeners will gain invaluable insights on letting one's personality shine through on air.
Ever wondered how iconic broadcasters like Marv Albert have shaped the industry? Tune in to learn about the evolution of sports broadcasting, the art of concise and effective writing for television, and the balancing act of making complex sports statistics accessible and engaging. Through personal stories and expert advice, Rob shares how early criticism and mentorship have crafted his distinctive style, offering a goldmine of tips for aspiring broadcasters and writers.
Experience the thrill and chaos of producing postgame shows during high-stakes baseball games. Rob's passion for baseball is palpable as we explore its timeless appeal, historical significance, and the magic of underdog victories and emerging stars like O'Neal Cruz. From the nostalgia of summer games to the romance and dreaming inherent in every pitch, this episode is a heartfelt tribute to America's pastime. Join us for memorable anecdotes and celebrate the enduring beauty of the sport.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
What if you could discover the essence of authenticity in sports broadcasting from a seasoned expert? Join us as we sit down with Rob King at Burn by Rocky Patel, near PNC Park, and light up a Rocky Patel Special Edition cigar. With candid discussions about Rob's career, influences from legends like Mike Lang and Dick Enberg, and his time as an adjunct professor at the Newhouse School, listeners will gain invaluable insights on letting one's personality shine through on air.
Ever wondered how iconic broadcasters like Marv Albert have shaped the industry? Tune in to learn about the evolution of sports broadcasting, the art of concise and effective writing for television, and the balancing act of making complex sports statistics accessible and engaging. Through personal stories and expert advice, Rob shares how early criticism and mentorship have crafted his distinctive style, offering a goldmine of tips for aspiring broadcasters and writers.
Experience the thrill and chaos of producing postgame shows during high-stakes baseball games. Rob's passion for baseball is palpable as we explore its timeless appeal, historical significance, and the magic of underdog victories and emerging stars like O'Neal Cruz. From the nostalgia of summer games to the romance and dreaming inherent in every pitch, this episode is a heartfelt tribute to America's pastime. Join us for memorable anecdotes and celebrate the enduring beauty of the sport.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
And we welcome you to another episode of Hold my Cutter coming your way here at Burn by Rocky Patel. We're just a few blocks away from PNC Park, where the Pirates play all summer long, and our buddy, rob King, our guest on this episode, and we are enjoying the Rocky Patel Special Edition. Ooh, ecuadorian Habano wrapper, honduran binder and filler. Do I smell a little cumin in there? You do indeed. Yeah, a little cocoa, a little pepper. Notes of wood, limited edition, and it's only for sale at top 300 producing stores.
Speaker 2:Thank you Rob, thank you, thank you Rob, thank you Rocky.
Speaker 1:Rob, thank you, thank you, thank you, rob, thank you, rocky, and thanks to Rob King. We love chatting with the great Rob King. We grew up in Cooperstown, so he is indeed the Hall of Famer and he's got some great takes on, not only the number of players and athletes over the year, the personalities that he has interviewed, but we've also talked, rob, about the people that you look up to and have emulated. Did you get your style from anybody in particular? Do you think or did you grab it from a bunch of people over the years?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think you know, as over the years, when I was in Syracuse, working in Syracuse, I was an adjunct professor at the Newhouse School and and I really I tried to tell my kids, you know, my students, my kids, young, young men and young women, to find a way to be yourself, like I think it's really, I think there are people probably who can fake it on TV and go a long way and make it. I just would never feel comfortable doing that. And I think once you, you know, I think your personality coming out on the air is important to make that connection, to make that legitimate connection. And I feel like you know, when I was writing more and we don't have prompters so there's not a lot of writing on our shows anymore that you know, you write, you talk a certain way, like I have a tendency to be a little bit elliptical, as you guys have probably noticed.
Speaker 1:I don't get from point A to point B as succinctly as I probably should. The reason we have you on here.
Speaker 3:There's a couple B's and D's detouring along the way. So I would write that way. I would write the way I spoke. So if you're a young person out there, I think, being aware of how you speak and how you communicate and then trying to write that way, and then you know you write in a certain way but you write it in a certain way so that you're so that if you're reading it it sounds like you're talking. But no, I mean I certainly by osmosis.
Speaker 3:I think I mentioned in the first podcast we did together a friend of mine, rich Gould, was was hugely instrumental, just a really really good, fun and funny human being who taught me that you didn't have to kick stuff across the room and be broadcast news to be good. You know, like you know, if the only thing you ever see on TV is weasley on air, people who are trying to climb their way to the top, I mean it's like you talk about a trope in Hollywood and I've met most of the people I've met in TV have been really good, decent people most of them. And I understand that there are people that are going to affect that narrative and it's an easy way to pick on people, but I found most people to be pretty good and I think that if you listen to a Mike Lang, you listen to a Greg Brown. It's hard not to be a little influenced by that and even people that like one of the things that I like about Dick Enberg and one of the things that I like about Greg Brown.
Speaker 3:They're the same thing, which is that when I'm listening to the game, I'm getting the sense that there's no place Dick Enberg would rather be than courtside of Wimbledon. There's no place that Greg Brown would rather be than PNC Park. Bringing you this game today and I and that has been those kind of things have influenced me. That's important, that I think you need to. I mean, I think I have that enthusiasm and that joy. In general, I love sports, but you have to remember sometimes you have to remind yourself that, yeah, I do, you know, let's go, let's play.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you saying that and I do feel the same way when I'm watching you pre post game fight Before you go too far.
Speaker 2:I want to know same question influence-wise, Because I'm very intrigued. I mean, I'm seven years in now and I'm still trying to learn this entire business, but I do think genuinely I'm not just blowing smoke good, good, good.
Speaker 1:I'm literally saying we talked about that being the name of the podcast. We did, we did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were gonna have snoop on and everything. But I genuinely want to ask you guys, like you know, how do you guys put it together and tell the stories the way you do, because I think you guys are phenomenal storytellers. And then, after you answer that, I want to come back to Kinger and ask you how do you write like that? I mean, how do you practice writing like you talk? I'm not a good writer, grew up with some learning disabilities. Writing like you talk. I'm not a good writer, grew up with some learning disabilities. It's very difficult for me to put something together on paper and then it actually genuinely be what I portray as a human being, because I'm very wild, rambunctious, high energy, so it's hard to put that on paper.
Speaker 1:So, to you guys, whoever wants to take it first Well, in terms of who, I've taken bits and pieces from different people over the years. I think I used to grow up listening to Milo Hamilton and Lanny Frateri. They followed Bob Prince. That's when I became a true fan of the game. Listening to them, I thought they were a great team of Pirates baseball. In fact, I go back and listen to my real, real early tapes the first ones I ever did with the Pirates and it sounds like Milo Hamilton and I'm like, wow, what am I doing? I'm impersonating Milo Hamilton and I used to Rob and Michael early on my first years as a Pirate broadcaster.
Speaker 1:We didn't do all these TV games. We probably did maybe 100 out of 162 games. So we had a lot of radio-only games and Lanny, the voice of the Pirates, would do the first three and the last three and Incite did the middle three and the pre and post-game show. I would host and I would sit in the booth. We had a big booth at Three Rivers you remember that booth at all. I do Long booth where you could have several people in that front row and Lanny had the seat closest to the press box area and then the color announcer and then I had my spot and I would sit after the pregame show. I'd sit and listen with my headset on to hear Lanny and Steve Blass or Lanny and Bob walk as I'm taking notes and keeping score.
Speaker 1:And I did that for a while early on and one time Lanny asked me he goes, why are you doing that? I said, well, I don't want to miss something that you say with you know, I want to kind of make an easy, easy transition. And he said I would just suggest you, not because you're going to pick up what you think maybe are good traits of mine, but you'll also pick up some bad. And I found out after he said that, thinking about it, he's right, because I think I was starting to kind of impersonate almost Lanny. So anyway, but I would pick up stuff from Lanny. And then I went to Buffalo and I learned Pete Weber was the voice of the Buffalo.
Speaker 1:Bison, now the longtime Nashville Predators broadcaster, but he was doing the first three and the last three. I was doing the middle three in the minor leagues and he taught me how to kind of make it fun. He was doing the first three and the last three. I was doing the middle three in the minor leagues and he taught me how to kind of make it fun. Nothing bothered Pete. He could give you, you know, three minutes like it was that Nothing he could just so easily. I watched him and tried to emulate that. And then Van Miller, the voice of the Buffalo Bills how much fun and what a showman he was. So that's kind of why I asked you that, Rob, at the beginning. Do you think some people along the way that you kind of picked that up from?
Speaker 3:your style and you mentioned you've always mentioned Mike Lang too. I mean, what an original you know and you know. I think one of the things I would think about with Mike Lang, one of the things that I always thought was phenomenal about him, was, first of all, he seemed to have incredible anticipation, like he knew it was going to happen 45 seconds before a goal scored not called hockey.
Speaker 3:It ain't that easy man, believe me. But he also, he had a sense of urgency in his voice. This is important and I thought you know just his voice would say he didn't say listen, he would just the way he presented it. And I think that's when I'm doing play-by-play. I think that definitely is something that I think about that sense that you've, you know, Sense of timing, yeah, I mean, and just listen. This is important. I'm not just describing a football game. I'm describing a football game.
Speaker 3:That's right you know, Um, so no, I think all those, I, I, I, I think that probably you know listening to, uh, I probably I'll bet listening to Marv Albert, growing up in New York for a moved upstate, I probably would cringe if I listened back to myself.
Speaker 1:Interesting really, oh my.
Speaker 3:Did you just take that straight from Marv Albert?
Speaker 1:Come on. Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 3:You can't take it from.
Speaker 1:Marv.
Speaker 3:Albert, you can't take it from Mike Lang, you just can't. They're originals.
Speaker 1:Pulls up and hits a three.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes pulls up and hits a three, yes, yes, and it counts, and that weird staccato delivery, yeah, um, uh, priceless stuff, priceless. But the game has changed and it's, I think it's, it's, um, it's more and more difficult for broadcasters. I don't, you know, I've, I've often wondered this and you know, would it, would a mike, if mike lang's tape landed on somebody's desk today? What would the reaction be? And I hope the reaction would be this guy's phenomenal. Yeah, because remember, he took over in hockey, calling Penguins games in a time in which entertainment was important, yes, like the sport wasn't big and the Penguins were terrible, the Penguins were terrible. And to not, you know, to have somebody you know, hopefully they wouldn't be afraid, because it would be a shame, because not only did he bring joy to people and I still love, everybody's got their favorite. I interviewed everybody, you know.
Speaker 1:I interviewed everybody. You know, I interviewed you when I did the show on Mike Lang and asked everybody about their favorite, and very few said my favorite, which is ah, get those dogs off my lawn. I remember I was like I have no idea what that means, but it's, it's it's my favorite.
Speaker 3:I love that. Of course, I always say Michael Michael, motorcycle to him when I see him virtually every day. Um, but, but uh, law, I mean, you know, if you, you, if that's your takeaway from Mike Lang, you're missing the fact that in and around the entertainment and the originality was a phenomenal broadcast.
Speaker 1:Well, if you ever watched him in the booth, you could see also how meticulous he was with the notepad and the things he did before and between periods and how he would handle things and how he handled his partner and watching the warmups.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, he went to those practices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was always all that stuff. Uh, so yeah he's, he's absolutely one of the all time greatest. Um, and you asked the question too, for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, about the writing.
Speaker 3:Oh, I just think you know every writing is different, you know. So I was an English literature major in college. My last year as a college I did nothing but take English literature classes and history classes. So all I did was write papers, write and write, and write and write and write. And those are different styles of writing. I mean, in TV, you know, somebody might write a newspaper article on the game right, and it might take you, you know, four or five minutes to read it. I got a 20-second lead-in. I have to say all that stuff in 20 seconds. So how am I going to do that? But then, within that needs to be, I think you're presenting it the way you would be talking to somebody. You're not. You know.
Speaker 1:Good evening and I'm sure, I did that at the beginning of my career.
Speaker 3:Little Ted Baxter, good evening. Welcome to WKPLR TV in St Louis. I'm Rob Ding. I would cringe, I'm sure, if I looked at that. Maybe 10 years from now I'll cringe at what I'm doing now, but no, I so. I think that that just having that awareness of how you speak and trying to write it that way so that you can present it the most authentic version of you on the air I think that's I just again I look somebody else might completely disagree with me I just think that's the only way to do it. You've got to be your. I think you just have to be yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, so many things that mike has taught me lang. Going back to my, my yoda mentor, uh asking for advice and and uh, early criticism of me and my style was from, from siblings, relatives, like you know. You calm it down a little bit. You know this is the pittsburgh pirates, don't you? And my brother Charlie? I've told this story before about when he said that to me and he said some other things about what he's hearing around town and some things. I appreciate it, including one of the things he told me why are you saying walkie on the air? Why are you calling him walkie? It's Bob Walk. Who are you to call him walkie? No-transcript on the air again, because I'm not a big nickname guy, nor is he, nor is the guy next to you he hates nicknames, but he's a player.
Speaker 3:I'm not a player, so I think that and I respect that out of you guys.
Speaker 1:I'm a big nickname guy when it comes to players calling during play-by-play and somebody told me years ago because I started nicknaming everybody, like hold on a minute. Yes, you're nicknaming it, but you're not yeah but also let the guy breathe a little bit before you. So I try to do that too, like don't just hand the guy a nickname.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's got to earn it, but that's fun stuff as opposed to and again, I'm not saying my way is the right way by any means I mean there's a lot of ways to broadcast.
Speaker 2:But it goes back to what you just said.
Speaker 3:right, You're you have to do it the way that, that I would want to do it and you know so. For example, um, if, if, uh, you know Chris Kunitz, his nickname in the locker room was Cooney, well, I'm just not going to call him that in the air. No, you know, if one of my analysts wants to call him that, that's fine. That's a, that's a player nickname type of thing. I gotcha, I'm not a player, yeah, so I'm not gonna.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be that unless it got outside the clubhouse or the locker room and it became, for example, comes to mind, jason Kendall was kid. Okay right, everybody called him kid in the clubhouse and everybody around town, you know we called him kid.
Speaker 3:But if it comes out organically, then that's different.
Speaker 2:Well, that's you being you right, Like that's letting the personality come out. And maybe you just had a long conversation and you're having a conversation with kutch and then you get on air and you call him kutch.
Speaker 1:I think that's really genuine right. Yeah, that's really. That was the other thing, too, about being authentic, being yourself. That was the other thing that mike said. You know, you just I love that, especially pittsburgh. You better be yourself, don't be someone else, don't be fraudulent, because, especially in this town, they'll figure you out so fast finally, finally, tuned BS meter to this town Absolutely One of the great things about Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3:It's one of the many great things about Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't want a bunch of BS, they want you to be yourself.
Speaker 2:And have you ever heard that statement that if you tell the truth and you're genuine, you never have to worry about what you're saying? Sure, I think you guys are the epitome of that and I try to emulate that, and I don't think I could fake it anyways, but I am who I am and I think a lot of credit goes to you guys because you've really influenced me to be that person. I think it's awesome stuff well bye.
Speaker 1:yeah, but it goes back to this, this thing about comfort and and how you so you've got different personalities depending on the sport and when. When you're hosting, for example, uh, during a baseball season, who knows how many different analysts you will have? So do you try and tailor your pre and post game shows to the person that you're going to be with. So we get a grid before every month starts about who we're going to be our color analysts and I'll prepare a game differently depending on who the color guy is. I wondered if you did that.
Speaker 1:Because, you know what their interests are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, michael has been the lone baseball analyst, so that's not really. I don't really. I understand what you're saying, but he had Teak before that. Yeah, teak before that. I mean, I would think, like when we're talking to the announcers, I'd be, you know, during a pregame show, I'd be more inclined. You know, if Michael and I get together, it's okay, we have a pool of things we want to talk about, but you know, we have John Wiener on. I love, love listening to John Wiener talk hitting.
Speaker 1:As do I.
Speaker 3:So let's save a hitter question for him. Love to hear Bob Walk talk about pitching, so let's save a pitching question for Bob. So there is some there would be in that instance, there would be some tailoring to. But I mean the whole thing again. I think we talked about this earlier. The whole thing is to serve the show. If you can serve the show, if you can serve, hey, this is the game. These are the elements that we believe are important to this game to get the fans ready for the game. And we serve that. And I'm not. I mean, look, you know, my mind is sometimes going in a thousand different directions. A joke or two might pop up and I'm knocking them down. The whack-a-mole in my brain, you know I can't say this out loud.
Speaker 2:I live there. I can't say that out loud.
Speaker 1:I'm not here. That's right, this is not.
Speaker 3:people have not tuned in to Comedy Central. Now, can I be myself? I'd like to think I'm funnier off the air than I am on the air. But I mean, you know, you, just I think you have to. You have to serve what serves the show that we are serving to the people. And everybody that I've worked with has that same mentality. You know Jay Caulfield phenomenal. Michael, phenomenal. Colby Armstrong, I mean all these people, mike Rupp, the idea is the same let's do the best show we can do, and if we're all pulling together in that regard, then that kind of stuff is less relevant. But you still have to.
Speaker 1:I know you know this, but we can talk about the game being fun and we have to talk about whack-a-mole. You've got to realize that I think sometimes, sometimes we take it so seriously about this is a daggone, in this case, major league baseball game kinger says it at least three times a year.
Speaker 2:They don't say work ball yeah, that's the old willie stargers line one thing that I I love about both you guys and something kinger you do, I say, probably as good as anybody is. You want to tell the story to the fans, so it doesn't matter really who's the analyst. You're going to figure out a way to tell that story, whether it's into the game or the postgame, like what happened, and then kind of drive it into tomorrow. We always try to be fair and honest but at the same time, like what can we teach the fans at home that this is going to move forward? This is going in the right direction.
Speaker 2:And I think one of your gifts and nobody really does it around Pittsburgh as well as you is the youth. You talk about those minor leaguers and you know we kind of joke around about how much you are invested in that and I think it's amazing. So maybe elaborate on kind of how to balance a show, depending on you know whether they were winning, losing. I mean, we've had 10, 11, 12 games in a row. We've got to throw things together.
Speaker 3:There's nothing really to talk about. Those are the hard days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's losing, it's getting tough, but we always put together a show that works. Or hey, what are they working on, especially during the pandemic? You know, the access wasn't there, we didn't know a lot of these like ins and outs that are going on in the cage or behind the scenes. Now we do a lot more and we figured it out all of us and I think that was really impressive to learn in the midst of that, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Michael, I mean, you talk about tailoring a show. So now I'm thinking about this. Now, you know, michael loves the teaching aspect of the game, the mechanics of the game, the different things. What are guys doing, what are they working on? And you know, we'll talk during the course of a game. Hey, this is what I'm seeing, and you know, then I'll talk to the producer and if it's, you know, in the hockey days, where there was two analysts, you're trying to get everybody's feedback as to what's important, what are they seeing. And that includes the producer, that includes myself sometimes, because sometimes you know, you, you you could get lost in the weeds a little bit. Hey, you know, look at this slider. He's thrown six times today. Ok, well, that's great.
Speaker 2:But let's look at the big picture too. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So everything, everything, everybody comes together and we put on what we hope is going to be the best show possible by a team effort, everybody collaborating and getting it together.
Speaker 1:But you do have to be careful about that aspect. That's a fine balance. You know you've got hardcore baseball fans watching you, but and this goes into analytics in-game broadcasting how hard and deep do you want to go into, because you're trying to be a servant to a lot of different people, a lot of different fans? How do you want to go into, because you're trying to be a servant to a lot of different people, a lot of different fans? How do you guys balance?
Speaker 2:that I think it's remarkable that you guys can balance it, because the game in the last five to seven years has completely flipped on its head if you think about all the information and how you kind of work through it. How do you guys balance that? Because I mean, I want to dig into everything and I know that's not possible. I've learned a lot, uh, along the way, but how do you balance that?
Speaker 1:go ahead, you go first, I, I in game, I try to think about me a lot. I think about uh, what, what, what I like, what interests me, and I think, I think, think I'm a generally strong baseball fan, while at the same time thinking about people my age, but also the younger generation who might. I mean, ops has become a standard for me, so I actually now try to present a guy's OPS number almost every time he comes to the plate for the first time'm on radio, now TV that's a way. Different animal pictures are there, but uh, and, and the producer has a lot to do with what's going on on television too, and I know same with you guys what's being aired on the pre and post game shows. So you're, you're serving your boss as well. Um, it's just, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a feel, I think, for me throughout the course of a baseball season and I think OPS is a good example of something that eight or nine years ago would have felt cutting edge. And, like you know, boy, if you hadn't read, you know, the Bill James abstract, from cover to cover, you had no idea what was going on. I think we're seeing this happening a lot in football right now. I mean, you're listening to a lot of broadcasts and somebody hey man, I know it was a long time ago, but I played football, I studied film, I played college football. We're talking about cover two and cover three, defenses and different looks and man under and all this other stuff. Now there are people that got 12 personnel out there and I have to say, okay, that's one running back, that's two way, okay, instead of just saying, you know, single back. Now it's like this hidden language is always a five-technique defensive what, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3:So I think that you know, as football goes through, some of this stuff, some of these things have to be. You know, there's going to be X amount of population that's going to know exactly what you're talking about. There are going to be some people that have an idea of what you're talking about. Then there's going to be a lot of people that have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, football is, you know, obviously it's the number one sport as far as viewership and all that stuff in the country. Well, you have a lot of people that are, you know, didn't play football and don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Speaker 3:And I think baseball is I think a lot of baseball has come through that phase and listen, you can see, you know, started talking about weighted on base average and yeah, what's this WOBA? And you know, I don't know if any, I don't know if all that stuff will catch on or not, and maybe is more of a tool that we use to analyze a player and then try to and that's what we try to do right, we find this and then you disseminate it to the public in a way that, hopefully, is neither talking down to them nor talking over their head.
Speaker 1:That's the other balance, the fine balance, right. And so, for example, if I cite OPS, I'll just casually mention that's on base plus slugging. I don't say, for those who don't know, that's implied Right. But you know, you say five years ago I didn't know that's implied right, but but heck, you know, like you say, five years ago I didn't know what the heck ops was, right. So what about before a a show? How much chaos is going on in studio? When you're sitting there at the desk with mchenry and you're going over for the next with in 2024 is going to be an hour pre-game and and and then when the light goes on, it looks like a fine oiled machine is. Is there chaos going on with you guys? I would say, are there arguments going on? Um, it looks like, by the way, rob king never, ever gets angry. That's what it looks like I would say.
Speaker 2:I would say about the show I I don't know if we've ever we've had debates on just about everything, including baseball. I don't know if we've ever we've had debates on just about everything, including baseball. I don't know if we've ever argued about anything in the show. I think we've both argued with the producer about what we wanted to do, because we maybe put a higher standard sometimes and sometimes that standard is almost impossible to do, especially when we were running thin during COVID and we don't have as many employees we used to. We don't have as many employees as we used to. So it's tough.
Speaker 2:But I would say postgame can get chaotic because you're up by five going into the eighth inning, Then you're up by one going into the ninth inning and then it's runner on second and you could lose this game. Oh wait, now we tied. Well, our whole show just changed completely In the ninth inning. It's wild and we're sitting down there, we don't know what's going to happen, and somehow they pull it all together and we talk about that show. But we've probably made nine segments thus far. For a four-segment show, maybe ten segments. So it gets weird.
Speaker 3:So hey, the middle relief was great tonight. Yeah, Until they weren't, yeah, until they weren't, with two out in the eighth. Yes, well, there goes that story.
Speaker 3:Somebody that was two for four earlier and played pretty well, and it's a second to lose the game, yeah now they're moved out, you know, and so it, but it is, it is fun, um, I, you know, uh, I think, um, I don't think that uh, chaotic I mean, look, sometimes it's necessarily chaotic, right, yeah, uh, but I think that you a well-prepared show and everybody's ready. And invariably, after all these years, in the last like minute before the show, I don't want anyone talking to me, so Michael and I will be chatting.
Speaker 1:It's true, like the last minute okay.
Speaker 3:I want to concentrate.
Speaker 1:Well then you should have told me that when we were doing the games at COVID, because I would be walking I'd be like right there by the desk. Here's Rob doing stuff and I'm talking to Rob. I'm standing there right by the desk chatting away, and then here, 10, 9, 8, 7. I walk away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we'll go commercial break. You'd be like, hey, have you seen this movie?
Speaker 3:He'll just start going. Yeah, completely off topic, three, two, one, he'll go right back in. Well, I will. I will say this uh, I don't need that last minute, I just need a minute somewhere. Okay, I need a minute where I can go. I try to get down there maybe, um a little, maybe a minute or two before everybody else goes up, a minute or two before they'll put me up with the announcer that I'm going to talk to, so I can prepare myself. Put it, you know it's. I want to be prepared, and yet I don't want to feel like I've got it memorized either, because if memorized now is you know, you've lost sort of the conversational aspect of it. You know, nobody in conversation ever says four, score and seven years ago 87 years ago.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 3:So you know, so prepared, and then. So I just need a minute in there, somewhere, where, and well, what's that? What's that minute?
Speaker 1:somewhere for.
Speaker 3:What is it? Just to make sure I know what's going on.
Speaker 1:So it could be, could be 10 minutes before airtime.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, probably, I mean you know, so you have, you know so you, so you have. Uh, you have an eight. You know you have an eight minute first segment or something okay, in which a lot of stuff is going on, yeah, and it's all ad-libbed. I mean we don't have prompters, you know, again, I'm not turning to a camera and reading something. Yeah, um, I, you know, I, I need to know, I need to know where you're going, yeah, where I'm going going. And one last run through my mind, I find helps me out. I don't think it's chaotic to you, michael, how?
Speaker 1:would you describe it? I love it.
Speaker 2:Before a pregame show no, it's not at all. I mean maybe a little bit. When you're near the trade deadline, some things happen last minute. Can we air it? Is it true? Is it not true? We have to get all that credibility across and that's sometimes a little chaotic, but we just adapt Some of the best shows. Nobody would ever know. I'll never forget my first year. The highlights went away. So our TV watching, the highlights completely went away. And Dave is telling us the highlights that are on TV we're just going and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dave Rikini now, but that happens all the time and we've had so many things go wrong and because of the prep work, all all the things that we do prior to, when it comes to communication, it most of the time seems seamless. I didn't go back and watch it at the beginning, but you know all the things that we had to change during COVID. We had some huge mistakes and nobody knew I'd be like did you, did you see it, jack? Were you watching today? She's like what do you mean? It's like, oh well, we just lost everything. We're just we're just doing everything.
Speaker 1:Some of those moments are kind of fun with the challenge, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I loved it. Nothing will look. And again, I like to take that minute to prepare and get myself mentally focused on the show. And you need to. You need to bring that mental focus every time. But there are times where you're like, oh, there's another gear of mental focus, because everything just went haywire. Yeah, and they are fun. What I always say at the end of a show like that, where everything went wrong First of all, when stuff goes wrong and there's technical issues or whatever, we have an incredible crew.
Speaker 3:We have an incredible crew and there are so many times in which something that somebody's done, an editor has done to me, has made the show. That's what's made the show in my opinion, what's made the show in my opinion. And you know, like I don't get. I don't get mad at my coworkers, because when I have a perfect show, then maybe I can get mad, right, I mean. So there, I'm trying to live up to their standard. I mean we have talented, we have really talented people there. But you're, but you're right. When, when things just go, hey, we lost our satellite signal, you got to go to the story and beat two.
Speaker 1:Now I enjoy that, but when I'm finished with it, I'm like I wouldn't want to do that every night, right, right, I'll do that once in a great while. Once in a great while. It is a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. You must have talked to Bob and the other guys. Sometimes we'll be in a ballpark where the communication breaks down, so they're doing their pregame hit and you guys are talking to say it's Bob and he's got his earpiece and he's talking, you know, on mic and he'll get through it. And I'm back in the booth, I'm doing some other things. I might be chatting with the stage manager or whatever, and get done and he'll go. Did you hear that, brownie? Did you hear? I said no, he goes. I couldn't understand a word. They said for five minutes.
Speaker 2:I couldn't understand.
Speaker 1:I just had to kind of almost like lip read to see what they were. What would they have been asking? So I don't know. Are you aware of?
Speaker 3:that. Oh yeah, sometimes you get down, sometimes you can't.
Speaker 1:I mean afterward it's hilarious that he got through it, and I don't know if you even are realizing that he sometimes can't hear you on a rare occasion, and I think there are times, too, in which we make mistakes, and then it's important to me to say I made a mistake.
Speaker 3:You taught me that early on. I love that the most important thing is to get it right. Beg my pardon, what's that? That's his. I like to say that early on, I love the most important thing is to get it right. Right, and if you um you know my pardon.
Speaker 2:What's?
Speaker 3:that.
Speaker 2:That's his go-to beg my pardon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, beg your pardon. Yeah, um, yeah. So I I think that, um, I would rather make a. You know, the viewers would rather have the right information, and so if I make a mistake and I, everyone makes mistakes right. What you can't do is make a lot of mistakes all the time.
Speaker 3:Right, you know excuse me what I said a minute ago and then two minutes ago, by the way, that was wrong. You know you can't be doing that every night, um, but I do think and that's that's part of you hope that you build up credibility with viewers and that they understand hey, you're human, you made a mistake, you corrected it, Now let's move on. But if you do it too often, people are going to be like this guy doesn't know what he's talking about or hasn't done his preparation. As I told Michael early on, if I make a mistake, correct me. I want to be corrected. I would rather be corrected and have the right information to the viewers, because that's who we're serving. Then, oh, let's just gloss it over. It doesn't really matter that I said the wrong thing. No, it does matter that I said the right thing.
Speaker 1:That's a great call. Hey, winding down this episode, but why is baseball?
Speaker 2:It goes fast, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:I know, I know, I know We've got in some Part nine of this interview.
Speaker 2:No, no, some part nine. We've got a ways to go.
Speaker 1:There's no time, okay, all right. What is the? What is the great thing or greatest things about baseball for rob king? Wow, what makes it such a great sport? Why do you love it so much?
Speaker 3:well, I think you know you grow up playing it. That's one thing. Um, I I think I don't know, is that the biggest, the biggest thing? That's a great question. I love the thing that I love about baseball I think I mentioned this earlier the way it unfolds over the course of a season and it's all summer long and it's, you know, it's outdoors, it's church leaves, it's beautiful grass, the fields are pristine, they're beautiful days, you know.
Speaker 3:Then you're bundling up in October and you're watching the series, and I think that it's the only sport in which you can, you know, sort of realistically say that the that the great players of yesteryear, I think, would still be great players today. It's not. I mean, I have a very, very difficult time. I mean, you know, if Michael Jordan dropped back into, you know, 1948, playing against the Minneapolis Lakers, I mean he scored 100 points a game, you know. I mean, how is that? You know? I think hockey, you know, even though the game is played differently, you know the size of the athlete hasn't changed so dramatically. Now in baseball we're starting to see some of these huge guys. But I mean, you think about, like, the history of the game. I think is another really compelling thing Like some of these, some of these milestones really mean something, you know, these milestones really mean something, you know. And when you think about, you know, a broken down old people are like oh, the players of you know yesterday, blah, blah, blah. So you take a guy like Babe Ruth, right, you know, I think the last or one of the last, I think he hit three home runs in Pittsburgh when he was playing for the Boston Braves, and so one of the I believe those were his last three homers. Anyway, he's an old guy, he's broken down, he's not in great shape and he hits one over the roof in right field in Forbes Field. Well, it had never been done and it was only done, I think, 16 more times, and seven or eight of them were Willie Stargell, right. So you know, this isn't Babe Ruth in his prime, this is Babe Ruth at the end of the line. You, this is Babe Ruth at the end of the line.
Speaker 3:You know, you talk about, you know, ted Williams. Ted Williams, when he was 41, hit .388. .388 in a different era, right, I mean, this isn't pre-segregation era and I understand that that's obviously a huge line and it's. You know, some of those guys wouldn't have made it, wouldn't have been able to live up to it. But I mean, he was there, you know, before Jackie Robinson and all that, and then. So you're thinking, okay, this is the cream of the crop, this is a different generation. 41 years old, he had 388?, 380. I mean, you know Gordie Howe and I know people didn't want to punish Gordie Howe, but he did another sport, but he was 52. He scored 15 or 16 goals at 52.
Speaker 1:I couldn't, you know, you're lucky if you can tie your sneakers at 52.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I just think you see, you see, but I think it's more true in baseball than any other sport that these guys you know you'll see guys at the end of a career and they belong. They belong to a different era. You know, they were the pre-ESPN era. We don't have any video of them but, man, they're still producing, they're still doing it. All those things to see like for some reason, maybe the game would have evolved differently, but for some reason, that 90-foot base pad has turned out to be perfect, right to turn a double play or to beat Ichiro and beat out a single. You know, it's just it's and all the. You know the dimensions, you know the pitching mound. You know the one guy out in the middle of the field, that's most important. He's standing there in the mound and it's. You know it's a team sport built of individual matchups, again and again and again pitcher-batter, pitcher-batter, pitcher-batter, pitcher-batter. Those are some of the reasons I love baseball. I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about doing word association, almost each of us coming up and see how far we can go. I'm not going to do it, but I was coming up with words that come to mind about baseball and you talked about seasons comes to mind the fact that you can start the year in the cold, go through the spring, the summer and then it returns to the fall. How cool it is to watch a game literally cool on a crisp fall night. Pennant races, cy Young, you know, batting titles, rookies, o'neal Cruz comes to mind. So each year, as we get involved in spring training and you approach the season, I've heard people say in fact, I was speaking engagement in Youngstown, ohio, and somebody said how are the Pirates going to compete with teams like the Dodgers? Well, they will, they'll compete with them, they'll, they'll, they'll compete against them, literally here in Pittsburgh and in Los Angeles. Who knows, was it just a couple of years ago? Didn't they win five of six?
Speaker 2:or six and oh, two years ago, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, so that that happens, it's. It's David versus Goliath. Sometimes Tampa Bay finds a way, but who knows what's going to happen with O'Neal Cruz? Isn't it the wonder of the game? And that's another word. The wonder of the game. What's going to happen with O'Neal Cruz is if he puts up a healthy year and he's back to where he was Since you brought him up.
Speaker 2:so Altuve's been all over the news recently. He's going to surpass $300 million as a player. The guy's 5'6".
Speaker 1:Well, that's another thing.
Speaker 2:Size, yeah, size, I think the fact that you can be 5'5", 5'6" and really not have a chance to make a Little League team when he was growing up. And then he becomes an MVP I believe multiple times, maybe just once, but an all-star MVP and a regular MVP. But then you look at Judge and Stanton and Ono Cruz and it's remarkable the size difference. If you put Altuve on the field they'd probably use him as a football, right? I mean it's just a completely different game.
Speaker 1:I mean I can't walk out on the NBA court and have a shot Things that we love about the game. Rowdy Tellez size Exactly. I mean, he's going to be a folk hero. People love that.
Speaker 3:Look, Vogelback was a folk hero for a while In the English literature world I mentioned as a major, there's like this sort of great American novel thought Somebody could write one book and that book could like sort of encapsulate America and and that's the author's written, the only thing they're ever going to write, and that's it. They put it out there and people have come close. You know, is there a great American? So there's kind of a romance to that part. Well, there's that in baseball. You know, amen. I mean, I love the story of, you know Bill Verdon would tell of going to his first high school tryout and they're gathering kids from all over the place and again, you haven't seen these guys play college, right. And the same thing happens in the Dominican Republic. These guys are 16 years old and they're going to come to America and when are they going to blow? When's O'Neal Cruz going to blossom? And so Bill Verdon goes to this workout and there's all these people and this one guy's like, oh my goodness, if they're all like this, I, I have no chance.
Speaker 3:I'm never going to make it and it was Mickey Mantle, at the same workout as as Billy Verdon. We're watching this guy run, you know, faster than anybody down the line and hitting mammoth home runs and and you know, you think about O'Neal Cruz and the anticipation and, like I said, I think it's romance, like you know, when he hit that home run, when he dropped to his back knee and he was fooled and then he crushed it out of the park, I'm like I kept rewinding it and rewinding him, did he?
Speaker 1:really do what I thought he did. How did this human being do this? How did a human being do that? He?
Speaker 2:was on his back knee.
Speaker 1:We're not sure if he is human.
Speaker 3:He went out of the ballpark Right. I mean that would be like sitting, that would be like going on home plate and dropping to your knees and taking batting practice and hitting home runs, I mean. And so then you salivate. What can they and you can dream.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a dreamer's game more than any other game, and what about how it's wrapped in history?
Speaker 2:Yeah, all those things, it's encapsulated. I mean World War II. You think about Jackie Robinson breaking the barrier. I feel like he opened up the door in every sport. And then you look at 9-11.
Speaker 1:It's just always been the sport that kind of brings back America a lot of times. That's the thing about it too, is that no matter how good or bad a baseball season pirate season is, a hundred losses doesn't matter. Last year didn't get to where they want to. They're always going to be stories and moments that you'll never forget. I'll never, ever forget andrew mccutcheon's at bat that'll stand out opening day. I'll never forget it. Or, or announcing his name on the feet when he came out on the line before the game. Or Joshua Palacios emerging out of nowhere Wow, yeah, these guys that come, you can start naming them. Adam Hysdew had a short but brilliant couple of months with the Pirates. He emerged as a hero. He's a folk hero in Altoona right, who is going to be that guy? Kevin Polkovich in 1997, where did.
Speaker 3:He come from upstate New York. So you know, there's uh, I didn't know the answer yeah, so of course he did. Yeah, there, of course. Yeah, he and RKC and Franco and Mark Lemke and all you know. Wow, I haven't heard that name in a while oh you're lovely, all our upstate, new York guys so, and Mark Lemke and Tom.
Speaker 3:Browning, andy Van Slyke oh, I love Lemke All our upstate New York guys. And the other thing is too. That adds to the romance of it is the and again, I am all for Browning. I don't know if we agree on this or not, and I know Michael and I went to the loggerheads about this. All for speeding up the game. Let's go. Let's get it going. Pitch clock I'm sorry but let's have it. Let's get the games moving. You owe it to the fans. We don't want a pitch and now the fans are going to do this and then another pitch and the fans are going to do this again.
Speaker 3:You need to keep their attention For the good of the game. You need to keep it going. And yet, when you can have a game be 230, 235, the marvel of a game that goes 13, 14 innings, the marvel of knowing that, the great comeback when Brian Giles hit the home run, that it's not over until the third out of the ninth inning. You're watching a football game, you know. You're watching the Bears and the Redskins play that 73 to nothing championship game. I think it was 1940. That game's over. You know what I mean. You don't have to watch the third quarter or the fourth quarter. That thing is over, you get. You know what the Penguins did in game seven in the 91 cup finals against the North Stars. That game is over. There's no chance of a comeback. But in baseball there's that hope, that dream. Again, it's the dream. You can sit there and think if somebody gets something going, maybe a walk, maybe an error, maybe you can dream about it.
Speaker 3:It's a dreamer's game.
Speaker 1:Another thing coming to mind even if you're down 11-1 in the ninth, each individual player still has to come up there to the plate and win or lose that play. It's meaningful to that batter, it's meaningful to that pitcher every moment, because that guy is struggling at the plate. He needs a hit here to get him going. Whatever it might be, all those stories, baseball is like that novel. Get them going. Whatever it might be, all those stories, baseball is like that novel. That's what it is. It's many chapters of a baseball season with twists and turns and suspense. Sometimes there's not a lot of drama, but I still want to know what's going to happen when I turn the page next. Who's coming up? Who's that pitcher making his major league debut?
Speaker 3:We're going to see the major league debut of Paul Ske schemes.
Speaker 1:I'm dreaming about absolutely. What is that going?
Speaker 3:to be like, and it's every day it's going to be. Is it going to be steven strasburg, like, I wonder? And there's more great fiction to to carry that out written about baseball than any other sport. I mean the stories, because, because, some truth lends itself to that I collect books.
Speaker 2:My my grandmother started this when I was a kid and I have so many cool history books based on it. And then you've got me back into it because you talk about baseball history constantly and I've loved it. But yeah, there's nothing more romantic there's. There's really no other sport you can tie all of these awesome stories to. I mean, just look at some of the movies that have been created. I mean just phenomenal and it's very romantic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, with that in mind, what are the 2024 buckos going to do? Let's, let's dream about what could happen. We'll keep this conversation going. We'll have you back.
Speaker 3:Yes, are we done already?
Speaker 1:For now.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 1:Stick around, join us for the next episode of Hold my Cutter.