33: SEO Doesn’t Have to Be Scary ( Spilling the SEO Secrets)

Let's stop being scared of SEO and today's guest Laurel from the Vineyard Creative Co. is going to help with that. In today's episode, we are spilling all the SEO secrets into easy actionable steps to grow your travel content and why you shouldn't be sleeping on Pinterest as a travel creator.

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@vineyardcreative.co
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Transcript

 [00:00:00] Hey, travel creators. It's time to stop shitting yourself about SEO. 

Um, I'm not kidding. It's actually not that scary anymore. And I'm so excited for you to meet today's guests, Laurel.

Who is going to break it all down for us and make it something that our to-do list can actually handle. 

Laurel: So I am a brand and show web designer And I also specialize in Pinterest and SEO. So I like to marry design with the functional part. So like the strategy and actually getting people to your website So like how do we okay, we have this beautiful website and then what's the next step? How do we get people there?

Laurel: So I call that organic traffic strategy or organic Traffic acquisition. but yeah, that's what I do. I've been freelancing for a little over two years now. I actually started, while my husband and I were full time RVing.

Laurel: and I had a background in design, and I had dabbled in freelance before, but that was when I actually left my job. And that's when I started [00:01:00] freelancing. so we did that for almost two years. and it was a blast, I loved it. Oh 

Laura: my gosh, okay, a month ago, my boyfriend and I, we moved out of our apartment in Boston and we are traveling in an SUV with a rooftop tent, so this is very, an RV will be an upgrade and I'm so excited we will get there, but that is so awesome, holy cow, that's so fun.

Laura: I love that. Yeah, I think a lot of projects stem from. Or a lot of creators that I consume content from, that they're doing those kinds of, like, living in RVs or whatever, they're like, I'm gonna try freelancing this thing, and then it turns into something much bigger than they even imagined it was going to be.

Laura: So that's really freaking cool. I love that. Okay, you mentioned your email list is one of the best things that you did for your business this year. I want to know more. Tell me how's it going? What inspired you to make it the best thing that happened for your business this year? I want all the [00:02:00] scoop.

Laurel: Yeah, so I think it was from a desire. Social media has never been my favorite thing or a favorite way to market my business. so I was looking for, you know, kind of another way, to promote myself to expand my marketing off of just social media. and I just started growing my list a little bit.

Laurel: With a lead magnet, of course, that was my first step. and then I started collaborating in different things like summits and bundles and things like that. And that was what really helped me grow my list and about 1500 people on my list now. and it's just been really fun. Like sending out newsletters is my favorite way, kind of like my favorite content, because I feel like I'm just.

Laurel: Just getting people kind of one on one, I get to tell a story, and just share a little bit about whatever I'm thinking about that week and, and then also just be like, here's everything that's going on in my world. And you know, I get replies a lot. I just feel like, you know, it's actually a great relationship builder.

Laurel: You know, sometimes we think of social media as the number one relationship builder [00:03:00] with your audience, but, I just, I love newsletters and it's another, it's a great way to send traffic to your blog posts. So yeah. 

Laura: Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh, I am a nerd for email marketing and newsletters, and I, and you're so right, it's just like an exclusive way to talk to people, so one on one, and it's once people learn, or just Google the ROI of newsletters, you're like, holy cow, why have I been posting online at all?

This is crazy. so it's something that I, yeah, will scream about forever. I love it so much. A little reminder here that on social media people expect to be entertained. They do not expect to be sold to. But in your newsletters, in your inbox, they expect to be sold to. And not entertained. So let's meet them where they are. Okay. Especially if we have something for them. To buy or further subscribe to you or further go down your little customer journey. 

I said in an upcoming episode, on the [00:04:00] bold founder with Lucy, that. 

 If people really saw the statistics and analytics on the conversion rate of selling over social media versus newsletters, nobody would freaking sell anything on social media, but we do because of peer pressure.

That means we should really be using our social media, not as the end sales goal, but as a funnel filler, meaning. Yeah, sure. You want to excite people on social media. Of course you want to entertain them? Like I said, well, your goal is to move them further down your funnel and hopefully get them on your email list.

Laura: Of course you. That makes me wonder, because it is such a good way to get people to your website or like to your services page or something like that, do you always highlight one of your services or maybe like you have a digital product or something in your newsletter?

Laura: In other words, in every send of your newsletter, are you always highlighting a place on your website people can go to? 

Laurel: Yes, I am. So I usually have [00:05:00] some kind of purpose, if I am telling a story or something, it's either leading to an offer or some kind of free content that I'm putting out there.

Laurel: So I almost always either include a recent blog post or like, hey, just like, here's one from the archives. If you want to check it out, that's one of the most popular things for people. And also I have a great footer strategy where I just am like, if you want to work with me, here's how you can do that.

Laurel: Here's everything I offer. And then here's my free resources, which includes all my freebies and affiliate links and things like that. And people love those. I will check, you know, what people are clicking on. And that footer actually gets a lot of engagement, especially the resources page, which is where I have, again, my freebies and also.

Laurel: Like a bunch of affiliate links with Oh, here's my tools and stuff that I recommend. So if you're not doing that, like a little PS footer with all of your favorite links, 

Laura: Yes. I'm gobsmacked because that is so genius. And just like, duh, duh, we should be doing this.

Laura: That's incredible. It's just like that. Constant call to action. Wow. Okay. I [00:06:00] feel motivated to go update my footer. Make sure that's in there. That's incredible. okay. You can tell me as an SEO expert. I am under the impression. I have several thoughts about SEO in newsletters. Okay. So like when we're writing a newsletter, we hit send and like, we know where it goes.

Laura: Like it's going to the people that subscribe. And I think it's awesome to have. Keywords, not necessarily keywords, but sort of, and those topics that relate to those keywords in your newsletter because it's something your target audience is already interested in, but they're not necessarily doing much in your email, correct?

Laura: Because you're just like, you've already captured these people, they're already right where you want them, and you're just sending them, right? 

Laurel: your reach is however many subscribers you have. In that sense, I know some people have utilized things like when you're taking your actual newsletter content, if you're putting it on like sub stack or something like that, it's technically findable.

Laurel: So,that's not my favorite way. I like [00:07:00] everything to live on your website, your own domains, you get all that juice. but yeah, so with your newsletter, the way I think of it really is, I think, like pillar content is like a podcast or blog post. So if you don't have a podcast blog post, if you have a podcast, you go podcast blog posts and then repurpose that into a newsletter and social content.

Laurel: So then, yeah. So, but I think if you're starting with blog posts, as your pillar content, like whatever content I'm going to create, I start with a blog post and then I just repurpose from there. That way you're getting that SEO juice. So like, yeah. the first thing you're focusing on is something that's, you know, SEO.

Laurel: And obviously, when you're focusing on SEO, so some, what are people searching for, usually that makes the best kind of content, right? Because it's, you're finding out what people are actually interested in first before you create the content. 

Laura: totally. This makes me have so many questions for you that I can't wait to answer about SEO specifically.

Laura: I have come [00:08:00] across so many reels, so many posts on Instagram, things like this, that are like, here's how to find keywords, did you know you can just go to Google, and literally Google, or like, have it help you fill out the blanks of travel creators, and then using the like, accordion of here's what people are also asking.

Laura: Should you really take this advice? Should you really just slap it into Google? Is that sound? Should we not be doing that? I would 

Laurel: say you can do that. It's not those keywords. I would say it's worth it though to use an actual keyword tool So you get some of the data behind the words that you're seeing Because you want to make sure that you're targeting the right words that you could actually rank for so if you're new to this thing You're just out starting to write blog posts SEO Optimize your website.

Laurel: You're not going to be ranking for the same kinds of terms that some big travel website that has millions of [00:09:00] visitors is going to be able to rank for, so where it's a keyword tool really comes in. Handy is showing you. Okay. how difficult is this to rank for? they're able to analyze all of that and pick things that have a good volume, but are easier to rank for.

Laurel: So,I really love, like Uber suggested for this, it's a really like more affordable one. And this is something, you can get on one of these tools. A lot of times they have a free trial or you can do a few searches for free, or you can just subscribe to it for a month. do a bunch of research, put it in a spreadsheet, and then cancel it, and then come back, you know, if you need it later, if you're not doing this every single month.

Laurel: so it doesn't have to be a super big expense. but the main thing you want to look for is that, search difficulty paired with the volume. Okay, how much volume is this? And then how difficult it is if it's like a 70 on, usually they'll scale it like one to a hundred and you want to stay in that like under 40 range usually.

So you want to pair like a [00:10:00] pretty good volume with low search difficulty. And that's not like a sweet spot because if you're, if you're, if you're, Using these really broad terms, you're going to be on page 100, no one's going to find you, Don't Don't freak out. Don't forget everybody. It's okay. I personally have used Uber suggest I do highly recommend it. They have a nice Chrome plugin. But it is really simple to use and really what Laurel is telling us here. Is that we need to pay attention to the search volume. 

On. Keyword term. So as you mentioned, This ranking, difficulty or volume is usually on a 100 scale. Okay, so you want to get something that has a high volume, which really means. People are freaking searching for it. They want to know what this is about. But has a low search difficulty, which means you or somebody there's a higher opportunity for you or somebody. To rank for that keyword. 

So meaning it's hanging out there, you just got to go. It's like, it's a thrift store. Like you got [00:11:00] to go grab it. There's a gym. There's a gym there. And it's time to use it and style it.

But I do recommend you check out Uber. if I was sponsored by them, that would be incredible, but we're not. So this is a candid, real recommendation. But when you get into Uber suggest and they even have an awesome free trial. will be so much easier to see what we were actually talking about here. 

I know we're describing a visual experience to you and an auditory function and I'm sorry. 

Laura: This makes me wonder, how often should we be refreshing keywords? Or like, going into these tools and re updating,changing some keywords in our blog posts, or basically just strategizing more content specifically based on keywords. 

Laurel: Yeah, I think it's something to do. Honestly, a little keyword research is probably going to give you a lot of ideas, hundreds of ideas just from a couple of root keywords, and then, you're going to be doing slight variations on that.

Laurel: So I would say [00:12:00] like every four to six months, go in and check. And then a lot of times for a lot of these keywords, you know, they might fluctuate a little bit in terms of things. I would say the main thing would be, things that are, Maybe time sensitive or seasonal to see okay, when do those like pick up or like things around years or what are people searching for around this topic now?

Laurel: So I can get maybe an edge on it before everyone's created content about it. a great site I love is called answer the public. and that is a great one for finding blog posts because they actually, you can just put in a topic and it'll show you what kind of questions people are.

Laurel: Googling around that topic, and it's great for finding new content and ideas. 

Laura: This is genius. 

As a travel creator, it can be hard. It kind of sounds counterintuitive, but I think it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly. Timely destinations. I know. Yes. That sounds counterintuitive because we are trying to communicate with a variety of [00:13:00] people. Have different tastes of travel, meaning of course you have your travel niche. Which might be luxury or backpacking or something more specific than that. But you might have people who in the wintertime, they want to do winter things or people in the wintertime who want to do summer things. 

And so trying to pinpoint an exact. Destination or region. Recommendation during a specific time of year can be a little bit difficult.

What do I do to kind of combat this? No real right answer. And when to share about a specific destination. Is to ask your audience, what is your target audience actually like? Like what kind of traveler are they? Are they the person who in the wintertime they want to be warm or are they the person in the wintertime who wants to be cool? Asking them can help you figure out what type of destinations to recommend during a time of year, another way to think about this is that oftentimes the content we create is the content we like to [00:14:00] see. And so you can think about yourself. 

Are you the winter skier or are you the winter beach person? What do you want to share about? Because when you share content that you are genuinely excited about, we can tell. 

Laura: So like, for 

Laura: for some, Clients, they're like, Laura, can you write this blog post about this travel destination? And I'm like, sure. And they'll send me keywords to use.

Laura: And so I do what I need to do. But I always wonder. For example, I just pulled up a blog that I worked on, and one of the keywords is London Instagram spots, plural. Does it matter that much if you make it singular, 

Laura: I don't know. What's your advice? 

Laurel: So the great thing about Google is they're very smart. And so a keyword is the root word in the phrase. They can be in any order. And they can be, you can add or delete prepositions.

Laurel: You can make them plural, not plural. So for instance, I always tell people like my wedding photographer friends that are is like [00:15:00] elopement to a Colorado wedding. Do I need to say it like that? And they're like, I'm like, no, it can be an elopement wedding in Colorado. However you want to rearrange the words.

Laurel: that's the same keyword. And it might show up in different variations with different volumes in, your keyword tool. But however you put that, that's. The same keyword. Google's going to read it the same and it's going to rearrange the words. Because people Google things and they, it's not grammatically correct.

Laurel: The way they Google it, they leave out, you know, they say it weird and you're like, this is such a weird way to say this, like, how am I going to use this? You don't have to use it like that. Just think of the keywords that are in the phrase and put them however makes sense. So write for people, not for Google.

Laurel: Google, keep Google in mind, but remember you're writing for people first. 

Laura: I feel so much relief. Because you're so right, it's like Colorado elopement. yeah, it's like these words that I would never speak out loud, and it's like, now you're asking me to write 600 words about it? Okay, I don't think that's real.

Laura: [00:16:00] I'm glad to hear that Google is smarter than me, that. is good. I'm glad that it can figure it out. I figured that was the case because when we think about all the people who are using Google, it's yeah, they're not gonna get, they're not gonna get that right every time. 

Laurel: good way to check it too is just to Google that term yourself.

Laurel: So okay, take the keyword, just Google it as is and see what kinds of things come up. You'll notice that like the top ranking blog posts are probably not using it in that. Exactly, you know, they're just writing it in a way that makes sense, that reads well, yeah, always, I love to tell people, just Google it yourself, or if in doubt, search it out.

Laurel: So like, when you're getting in the keyword zone, you're like, oh my goodness, there's all these terms, and what does this even mean, or whatever, just go and search it, and see what shows up, and it's okay, is my post gonna fit in here? Is it going to stand out? is the title going to stand out among these other things?

Laurel: Like, what's going to make it give me an edge? And so that's kind of a good thing to like, okay, look at the competition. Look at what's ranking now, what Google is [00:17:00] liking, what they're putting up top and see, okay, can I compete with these sites? Can I make something better than that, you know, so. 

Laura: That is mind blowing and amazing advice.

Laura: It's so obvious. It's so obvious. Just Google it. Just give it a Google is what I always say. This also, like, when I'm reading blog posts of other people and it's so clear that they're just trying to get the keyword in, I'm like, this is horrible and now I don't trust you. Because you're not here to really help me, you're just here to like rank number one and now I'm angry about it.

Laura: And I'm leaving your page even though you told me what I wanted to know. yeah, that's so true. We have to remember that we're writing for People, and not, and I learned, I heard this quote recently, about why AI, especially for blogs, it's so easy to be like, spit me out a 400 word blog about this topic, find some keywords for me, blah.

Laura: But the reason why it's, will never sound like humans is because it lacks soul. And that's why it's so [00:18:00] identifiable to find this stupid, these stupid AI blogs. Because you're like, no one would ever say these words. this is not human. And I can tell. And I think though, it's going to make certain writers just More wanted is really what I mean because they're like okay, I'm actually going to take the time like you to do the SEO research properly and put it into human language, rather than just use a computer to do it for me, which is really interesting. 

Okay, well, Laura is really getting at here. Is that, for example, let's say you were writing a post about. The best brunch spots in London, which if you are, let me know. That sounds great. But we need to figure out what are people even asking about this topic? Maybe you're really jazzed about brunch and you're really jazzed about London. 

And you want to write about it. What you're going to do is head on over to our good friend, Google, and you're going to type in London, brunch spots, and you're going to see what comes up. are there any blogs that come up? [00:19:00] Are there any articles that come up? What are people asking about that and how can you see what they've done and make it better and make your own. Just like I've said before on this podcast, many moons ago. Your best ideas, the best content ideas have already happened. 

Laura: And we just need to learn from them. And make them our own and put our own twist on them. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Everything that's needed to be said has been said, Nobody was listening to the first time. So we just need to hear it again. From your perspective. Okay, how much does SEO matter on social media?

Laura: If you know anything about it, I would love to hear what you think. 

Laurel: Yeah, well, I will say I'm not an SEO expert when it comes to social media. but I do know, you know, when it comes to like your actual profile, because your profile is searchable, make sure you're starting there, your name, and then actually like what you do with whatever your niche is, including that in your title.

Laurel: in terms of actual posts. So I know that. I've heard that things on Instagram [00:20:00] TikTok are switching more to just organically including the keywords. TikTok is actually a hugely popular search platform. it's kind of similar to YouTube. So, when you're really talking about organic, traction and stuff, yeah, TikTok is really moving out.

Laurel: If you notice when you watch TikTok video, it'll show you the suggested search. right below that video, which is sometimes accurate, sometimes not, and you sometimes get something weird, but a lot of people are getting on there and searching. They're not just necessarily getting on their FYP page and scrolling, similar to they would on YouTube.

Laurel: YouTube's also very search driven. I will say with Pinterest, Pinterest is also another one that gets grouped in with social media, but it's actually so that's one that you can a lot of times your keywords on Pinterest and your website are going to really overlap. but Pinterest, you actually can just do keyword research right on the platform, and just Look up your root keywords, see what suggested search comes up.

Laurel: Usually when you search something on Pinterest, you'll get those little bubbles that'll pop up at the top. And those are basically [00:21:00] like more keyword groups that you can look for. So it's really easy to do on Pinterest. So Pinterest is definitely one. It's worth it to write out your pin titles and descriptions.

Laurel: not just, you know, have it bring in the info from your site, but actually write those out with keywords. it's going to help a lot on Pinterest. And Pinterest is Fantastic for travel experts. Absolutely a great niche for that. 

Laura: I have so many thoughts about Pinterest because it's so funny. I think so many people in my niche overlook it because Pinterest feels like the social media you go to when you don't want to be on social media, but you need to do something with your thumbs.

Laura: That's what I think Pinterest is. it is literally a direct link to your website. And it's like, okay, if all these people are creating beautiful photos and videos of these places anyway, let's put them on there and get them to your website. Because I'm blown away by the fact that it's a visual search engine that is so freaking cool.

Laura: Other ways you know, like, why Pinterest is [00:22:00] so powerful, like, why should creators of any kind, really, be spending their time, or like, putting more of their social efforts or marketing efforts into Pinterest? 

Laurel: Yeah, people on Pinterest, it's a fresh audience. It's a new audience. so there, it's less driven by things like engagement, like a social media platform where I can be engaging with my followers, posting on my stories, replying to comments, all of this kind of thing.

Laurel: And it's more just Like we said a visual search engine. So, you're getting new people and then you're sending them straight to your website. that is the goal. With social media, the goal is to keep people on the platform. people are just like scrolling. it's harder to get them engaged on your website.

Laurel: So like Social media,kind of the funnel, it's a little bit more like, okay, relationship build. Like, they follow me, they follow me, they follow me. Now I have to get them to see my content. So I have to post all the time and then hopefully, eventually, I'll get them to my website and I'll get them on my email list.

Laurel: And then, you know, and then, but with Pinterest. [00:23:00] It's a lot lower lift of like, you know, if you're creating the blog posts anyways, and you already have images and stuff, you might as well be putting them on there. It does take a little bit of work, to get your keyword strategy and everything on there going.

Laurel: but, you might as well be driving traffic from Pinterest. It's a great way to drive traffic to your lead magnets and start growing your list. a lot of times people on Pinterest are very just kind of like Google. They're going with a question. So they're obviously very interested when people are coming with.

Laurel: Questions and they see you pop up as like an authority that kind of automatically builds that trust and they're more action oriented. So people on Pinterest are shoppers. A lot of times they're looking to make a purchase. There's like a statistic that says 77 percent of people are actively looking to make a purchase.

Laurel: while they're on the platform. So they're, because they're, they're looking, okay, what do I want to buy? What do I want to get? Or, you know, so they're planning vacations, they're planning, X, Y, Z, they're planning [00:24:00] their interior design, they're planning their next meal, whatever it is. and so it's usually like just people who are like, okay, I need pictures.

Laurel: And I'm a visual person like that too. So I love to get on Pinterest and just see pictures and see like what stands out to me. and so. They're just more action oriented versus someone who's just scrolling along and they see a video and they're like, oh, that's cool. I'll give you a follow, but they may not be as like, I'm really interested in taking action now.

Laura: This is crazy. This is crazy. Wow. I. Yeah, I've been sleeping on Pinterest, because it doesn't feel, because it's so different than what we use all these other stupid social platforms for, and it's we've been, my target audience has been like, fighting to figure out, how can I be seen? How can I be seen?

Laura: And then it all, what's going through my head is a lot of the times the people that we End up gathering in our audience on social media are not going to be our target audience or people who are actually going to be action motivated to take the next step [00:25:00] whereas it's let's step back and let's look holistically at the places where People already want to find solutions.

Laura: Like i'm not tapping into instagram my question. I'm not doing that. I might i'm definitely doing it on google. I might do it on tiktok I might do it on youtube and maybe pinterest and it's like why are we pigeonholing? You Into these places, and I think one of the answers might be because that's the only place we've seen other people have success, whatever that success means to them, like growing a million followers or making a million dollars, but it's like, why aren't we meeting people where they are, which is literally on search engines, and we can also make them look beautiful, that's just mind blowing, and so valuable, and makes me want to have more reasons to fight meta, but that's really amazing.

After hearing this, I can't help, but think that Pinterest is a business. ACC. It's a business hack. I can't get out of my head. That Pinterest is a visual search [00:26:00] engine. And especially if you're a travel Grieder, you know, your shit already looks beautiful or you're working on it. And you want people to get to your website or your newsletter? To go further down your funnel as we've gone over. To get to know you more. Et cetera. And because people are already actively searching. For these specific keywords or maybe specific blogs or questions you're answering on Pinterest, it's so much easier for them to already get in your funnel in one tap they're on your website. you know, when you watch a real. And it's like in the link in my bio, everyone's guilty of this. 

So I am not saying I'm not. And you tap on somebody a little. profile. And go to their bio and then you go to the link and then you go to that links link to find the fricking thing they're talking about. But on Pinterest, it is such a lower lift. And if we can remove the barriers that our audience has to go through to get them the good stuff. That is. Prime. [00:27:00] For growing, whether it's your email list. Your monthly income. Or anything in between. 

Laurel: The thing I love about Pinterest, too, is that your pins last for years, versus, social media, your, you know, that reel or whatever, it goes out there and it's pretty much dead after 72 hours. Like, no one's seeing that back in your feed, for the most part. Again, TikTok, kind of turning more into a search engine, but, you know, you'll see things, even if they go viral, they go viral and then it's, Nothing.

Laurel: Whereas Pinterest, you won't have things go viral, overnight, but they'll continue to, like, bring you traffic, for months. I have clients that have pins that are bringing them thousands of clicks per month, and they were created, like, four or five years ago. So it's great that way.

Laura: Okay, this is so true, and I don't know why I never really realized this, but I worked with a client. Recently we were looking at analytics of all their social platforms and they were on Pinterest and month over month I'm pulling analytics and the top freaking post was one that they literally posted So long ago and i'm [00:28:00] like, why is it still showing up?

Laura: Like I have like we've worked on this new like Strategy of content. Hello. I want that to be appearing in the top post for you, since I spent time on it, and now it's this stupid thing that is like obsolete, technically, but clearly is working. That's super interesting. I guess it also goes to show more evergreen content, you know?

Laura: I'm, will also scream about that forever, about why that's so important, and like, this is just proof. The time that we spend on social media is ridiculous and creating content for it that isn't evergreen is Frankly a waste of time unless it brings you joy, of course but I just can't say enough about why we should be sharing evergreen content and this is so validating and I hope everybody listening also feels up in arms about it because it's so important.

Laura: It's so important if you're really trying to be serious about either making money from it or turning your content into a business. It's crazy. 

Laurel: Yeah. It's so easy to get burnt out [00:29:00] as a content creator. And when you want to actually have, you know, you maybe you got into this so you could travel and work at the same time and you want to have that freedom to not feel like you're on your phone all the time.

Laurel: having content that's working for you 24 seven versus you having to be like, I've got to make something else today. And today I had to post every day. It can be overwhelming. So having that more sustainable approach, just okay, it's, it's like putting your money in the investment account.

Laurel: It's, I'm not going to get rich overnight, but in 10 years, I'm going to be so glad I did this. Not necessarily 10 years in a year, six months, whatever. But you are going to thank yourself later for taking that time to work on the evergreen. 

Laura: Yes. I think the stat is something like, it can take like 9 to 12 months to see any sort of return on the time you spend on social media marketing.

Laura: And it's like, hello, have you heard of an email list? I can make you so much money, just like, for real. Ah, that's so [00:30:00] crazy. okay, I would like to talk about websites. And, because you know so much about websites, or just like, you know enough that when you go to a website, you're like, wow, this one sucks, or like, you can just tell immediately, nope, somebody doesn't know what they're doing.

Laura: What are some of the biggest things that you see, that you're like, these are the biggest mistakes I see people making on their websites that honestly are not that hard to fix, and I just don't know why they don't do it. 

Laurel: I think the biggest one. So for user experience is like a big one. And that ties into your SEO.

Laurel: So like, are people actually able to navigate around the site easily and find what they need. So having a really clear, Honestly, things being legible is a huge one, so,checking the color contrast of, like, your text to the background is a big one. Because it's also an accessibility thing,people are having a hard time reading, or they're using, a screen reader or something, making sure the text is large enough to read, making sure the contrast, if you have, a light gray text on a light pink [00:31:00] background, it's not gonna be, like, good.

Laurel: And Google can actually read that as well. So it's looking for high contrast, accessible. so that's a big one. Making sure people can really read or don't use these like really scripty fonts for things that should be really easy to read. So, make it everything, all the information super easy to read. and then, All your pages.

Laurel: So like blog posts as well, but making sure that each page has a lot of content in terms of like actual words So not putting pictures that have words on them and as the content because google can't read that. It's just a picture and neither can a screen reader. So if someone comes along and they're using a screen reader not going to be able to read it.

Laurel: So actually having at least 300 words on a page, super important. Keeping your header and footer very clear and easy to navigate. So like, not like cutesy titles,Oh, here's my journey or whatever, make it home about services, blog, you know, course, keeping it really clear and easy is super important.

 Clarity [00:32:00] will always beat.

Creativity. I learned this advice a couple of years ago. It just makes sense. Because think about if you've ever seen a billboard. Of course you've seen a billboard. If you've ever seen a bad billboard and it makes you stop. And you're like, what the heck were they even trying to say. Like I'm driving by at 75 miles an hour. 

I have. The two seconds to look at your billboard and then I need to know immediately. What the heck you're trying to sell me. And when you're flying by, you've definitely seen a bad one. And you're like, I don't know what they're even trying to do here. That's because they're trying to be creative and they're not trying to be clear. And this billboard mentality is exactly what we need on our websites. 

Laura: I can't say anything, because I'm redoing my website, so I will say nothing about what bad websites look like. But, that's so funny. I'm making lists of notes of things that I'm like, wow, that was crazy. Because I just, I just recorded an episode about why I think Linktree is like a [00:33:00] disservice to creators.

Laura: Meaning, instead of having, like, the premise of it is genius. Let's collect all of your important links and put them somewhere, but like, let's just build a link page on your website. Then people are already there. And then plus it helps with SEO, because it's like, you might have a fantastic resource that is talking directly to your target audience, but nobody's going to find it because it's buried in this dumb.

Laura: app on your Instagram page. it might as well be in a mine. but if it's on your website, it's searchable, and Google can help them find what they 

Laurel: need. Yes, yeah, especially like all your opt in pages. I'm big on like, not sending people to a separate, newsletter opt in page, that you've created.

Laurel: That can be really easy to start with, but actually having those embedded on your website is great because again, like you said, you could make a whole page so that it's searchable on your website and all the traffic that you're sending to your site Will help your overall SEO. So when Google sees like the more traffic you're sending, even if you're sending it from your newsletter or social media or whatever, you're sending it to your [00:34:00] domain, that looks good.

Laurel: People, Google sees this as a reputable site, you know, people are coming to it, you know, they're interested in the content here and it helps what's called like your domain authority, which is just a term that a lot of SEO experts will, or SEO sites will give to a website, but the higher that is, that helps you overall.

Laurel: So like all your blog posts and everything, it's going to help that rank higher. So we always want to send people like to our site, like don't send them to other places, send them to your own property that you own. 

Laura: For real. So serious. I'm so passionate about,cybersecurity and surveillance capitalism, and so owning places on the internet.

Laura: Oh my god. Something I will not shut up about. But, I digress, because I can't. Once I start, I can't stop. So, we won't talk about it. speaking of website design. This is, okay, as you were talking, I was thinking in my head, I wonder what's most important, and I think I know the answer now. But my question was, design versus content on a website.

Laura: And in my [00:35:00] mind, I think we like to think that design is more important than content, but obviously, I think content is more important because it's better to be clear than creative. And also SEO. But what are some things that you, when you're visiting a website, this is like the reverse question of the other one, some things, when you're visiting websites that you're like, wow, this is beautifully done.

Laura: I love how this looks, I love how this sounds. what? makes a good website besides the things of like user experience, and all the important things that you should have. Let's consider those like baseline things. Let's move on to like next level. This is a good website. 

Laurel: Yeah. Well, I think Like you said the pretty versus like the actual content of it is such a good like they're both Super important right because the content is the actual meat like people are looking to consume things on your website They're not usually just looking to look at a pretty page, like it may be like wow What a cool website, but they're not gonna it's not gonna inspire them to action and that's what [00:36:00] we want them to do It's inspired to action.

Laurel: So content I think should always be the first thing write out your content first. really think through that, and working with a copywriter, if you're not a natural writer, like, especially with, for your core website pages, can be great, because they know, what converts, and they're gonna be like, this is how you, you know, this is how you show the transformation, or whatever, especially if you're thinking about something like a sales page.

Laurel: but, really, always make it clear, like, what the next step is. call to actions. making your, when it comes to your copy, I'm not a copywriter, but I know, the essence of it, and I've worked, I have some great copywriters that have taught me a lot. And, making it all about the reader and not about you, so it can be easy.

Laurel: If you offer a service or a program or whatever, be like, I'm a copywriter. I, here's me, and here's what I did, and they're, but whoever's planning on your site, they're looking for answers, they're looking for resources to help them, so they want to know that you understand their problem, so a story is great, this was me, a couple years [00:37:00] ago, and I was struggling with this, probably like you are right now, and this is, but this is my life now, so showing that transformation and showing how it's possible for them, is super important.

Laurel: So copy should absolutely be like your first step. You don't want to design something like, because that, that really informs the flow of your website. how everything's designed. So like I use that as the inspiration of how I'm going to lay out everything else, okay, this is the section, like this is where we, you know, lay out the pros and cons of something or whatever.

Laurel: So content first. And then when you move into the website, it's really, like I said, just making sure things are, big enough to read, that they're accessible, that your images are really high quality and they're not like blurry or small, and just making sure that everything Like flow as well, like that there is like a nice cohesiveness that you have strong brand identity.

Laurel: That's so important But for your website as well that you're using, like same colors same fonts everything is cohesive. [00:38:00] That's just going to bring it up and make it feel very professional and give people like Be able to recognize you so if they land on your site Consume something and then they come back to it again.

Laurel: They're gonna Like be able to like, Oh, this is that same person, so it's making sure everything across your website, your socials is really consistent. It's going to help with that, brand recognition for you. So it's super important. 

Laura: If you missed my episode with Lucy from the bold founder, she is a verbal strategist, and that is one you're going to want to go and listen to, if you have any questions about how the heck to talk about yourself. 

It can be really easy to get roped into wanting to talk about ourselves all the time. I mean, how can we help it, but that's not why people show up to your website. If they want to know more about you, they will ask you they're on your website to learn about the result you can give them and how they will feel. After getting that. 

Laura: Okay, this one is intimidating to me because SEO has always freaked me out, but I feel so much better after this, I [00:39:00] really do.

Laura: If someone wants to start with SEO, what should they do? Let's pretend, let's, actually, let's pretend, be delusional and pretend everybody has a really clear brand. They know their target audience. They know Who they are, and who they talk to, and how to talk about themselves, and how to talk to their target audience.

Laura: And they're ready to go. They're ready to SEO. What? What do they do? What should they do? 

Laurel: Well really everything does start with the keyword research. once you have those, content pillars, your brand pillars, okay, I talk about this, most of us have that. If you've done all the work to figure out your ideal client or audience, you're like, these are the things I talk about and I'm an expert in.

Laurel: Start with those and then keyword research them, Keyword research all those content pillars. That's gonna give you all these ideas for content and blog posts and everything. So start with the keyword research, and then your actual website,so your home about services, if you have offers and things like [00:40:00] that, choose a keyword for each of those core pages on your website.

Laurel: so kind of maybe like a more broad one. So the general role is we want. One specific keyword that we're focusing on for each page to rank. We don't want one broad keyword, and then we use that just like all of our website. We want because it's called like keyword cannibalization. So if I have two pages that are the same keyword that I'm really targeting, they're going to compete against each other, and it's going to confuse Google.

Laurel: So making a map of your website. Okay, like this is the keyword that I'm using for my homepage. This is the keyword for this sales page, etc. but the blog posts are really where you're going to grow that traffic. Those are where you answer people's questions.

Laurel: Those are where you provide a huge amount of value. so then like once you've got your core pages, like I've written them out, I've chosen a keyword for each of them. include that keyword in the copy, in what's called the SEO title and the meta description. If you only do one thing on the [00:41:00] page, that's super important.

Laurel: Your SEO title and meta description, using your keywords and those. And then pick out what we call pillar content. Like pillar blog posts, so those really high value blog posts that are probably like a thousand words plus and they're like, okay, this is my master guide to X, Y, Z, and that you're, those are like really chance to kind of dive deep into that content.

Laurel: and so like strategizing those, what do I really want to be known for? I like content pillars, like heads and then diving deeper into those topics. From there, 

Laura: that was really helpful. I'm excited. Thank you. when I had a real job, not that this is not a real job, but when I had a quote unquote real job, as I say, I worked in marketing, of course, and I had created an entire content pillar.

Laura: I spent six weeks creating an entire content pillar strategy. And then I show up to a meeting with our little group of people. Outsourced [00:42:00] SEO woman and the head of our marketing department and they're like, Actually, we're not gonna do that anymore. I was like, for six weeks, you knew what I was doing. And now we're not doing that anymore?

Laura: it was insane. It was insane. I was like, all right, this is very, you have no idea. You have no idea what I've done. And now it doesn't matter. So stupid. And they haven't updated their blogs since then. So, ha. this is why it's great to be a freelancer, because 

Laurel: you feel like your work actually matters, right?

Laurel: Instead 

Laura: of doing 

Laurel: this. 

Laura: Or like you're making any progress at all. Yeah. Incredible. Amazing. I know. speaking of freelancing, since you like moved from freelancing to being the boss. A lot of my target audience are also in that same transition. They are either freelancing or doing content creation but also have a full time job and their dream is to make it their full time job.

Laura: What [00:43:00] advice, put yourself back in your shoes of okay, I'm gonna make the leap here. what advice would you give to somebody who is thinking about just going all in on what they really want to do? 

Laurel: I think, man, I know that it's so hard to be in that spot. I think, and it's going to sound very, cliche, but, just go for it, is the thing.

Laurel: because I think, it can be scary and stuff, as long as you, make a plan. make a plan for it. Pick a quick date, from your job, maybe find some other, I know I relied on a few things that weren't necessarily like what I wanted to be doing. I was a virtual assistant.

Laurel: I did all kinds of stuff before I actually, my business was sustainable, you know, I had the right amount of clients, you know, I had funnels going and all that stuff. So it's going to take time to build up. But I think if it's your dream, you're never going to feel like super ready to quit, you know, you're never going to feel like, oh my goodness, and there's always the, I had a friend who's a content, she's like a hair content creator, and she had [00:44:00] this dilemma, of quitting her job, because she was always like, what if it doesn't work out, and I just feel, I think a lot of times it's not so much financial, sometimes it is.

Laurel: But sometimes it's like, what if I fail? what if I do, and all my friends and family, see me doing this thing, and then it doesn't work out, or whatever, you know? And it's like, well,what if it doesn't? you tried it, and you had fun, and you did it, and like, that's what life's about.

Laurel: You know, most of us, like, we're not gonna have a hard time. You can always go back to corporate if, But it's, that's usually the fear, is the fear of, failing. and I just don't think that's worth, failing. being afraid of just do it. And if it, again, if it fails, you had a lot of fun and you probably made a lot of money, maybe it didn't last or whatever, or you got burned out or whatever.

Laurel: But I think just thinking like, what's the worst that could happen if I do this and what's the best that could happen? Like does the best way out the worst, like the best risk. Yeah. 

Laura: I wanted to start this podcast for an entire year before I actually did it.

Laura: [00:45:00] And I read in a book, this woman, it was like this, a mindset book. And the example she gave was like, what if you start a podcast and nobody listens to it?

Laura: Like, can you survive that? It's like, yeah. Or like, what if you start a podcast and 500, you get 2, 500 downloads or whatever. are you, can you survive that? And it's like, yes, of course. And it's like, we just don't know until we do it. But, We always, also in my mind, what helped was knowing that I always had a choice.

Laura: I could choose to do this, and if it wasn't working, I could go and find a job. Even if it was, like, making coffee, somebody was gonna hire me to make coffee, and I could figure it out while I wanted to.That helps too, and I hate when people are like, I feel so stuck, and I've definitely been there too, of I just feel stuck, and I don't even know what the right or next thing to do is, and it's like, we're never super stuck, because you can always choose.

Laura: You can always have a choice. 

Laurel: Yeah, no, I think I sometimes, you have those hard days and sometimes you're like, is this stress worth it? I just don't know. But then I still feel like my [00:46:00] worst days as a freelancer are better than my best days in a regular job. That's so true.

Laurel: Yeah. 

Laura: Yeah, I always think about that too. Sometimes I'm just like curled up in a little ball and I'm like, I don't know What is going on? but then I think about Would I ever trade me being able to curl up in a ball on my couch whenever I wanted to for doing something else? I'm like, no. I will sit here and pout because I can.

Laura: which is the best, which is the best. Okay, is there anything else you feel like you need to tell the world about SEO or websites or Pinterest? 

Laurel: I would say just, don't get hung up on it. I think that's so easy with all these things.

Laurel: We'll be like, I just need to find the best keyword or like the best this or that or don't get on Google search console and check it every single day to see how your blog post is doing. I know that's tempting. Why am I not getting a thousand visits yet? But, just know that it's like.

Laurel: Each little thing you do is going to help. It's like a [00:47:00] drop in the bucket. Because SEO can feel so overwhelming. And you're going to hear like, Oh, well, there's like backlinks. I've got to do that. And there's Oh, my, my site speed. I've got to work on that. And this and this. And they're really like, Yes, those are all things.

Laurel: And they're all important. But you don't have to do them all tomorrow. Just do a couple like Things every day, Like you don't have to do a blog post every day like start small start a blog post a week Do what's manageable for you now and then just keep working on it slowly and it will build over time it's a big project It's something that is like gonna be something that you're working over the course of your career and like your website growth Your brand growth.

Laurel: It's not You An overnight thing and it's it doesn't have to be you don't have to get this all figured out this week You know just slowly work on it, bring people in to help if you need to But yeah, don't stress over it. Just make continual small actions Each day each week and it will grow over time.

Laurel: So yeah 

Laura: do you feel like it [00:48:00] takes? Months for people to see like we said, it can take a really long time to see any sort of results on social media from your efforts. What do you feel like the average is that you've seen from SEO? And I know that it, this is probably really hard to answer because it depends on people's different goals.

Laura: is their goal to get people to subscribe to their email list? Is their goal to like, get people to purchase their thing? Is there an average? 

Laurel: Yeah, I would say four to six months to see like whether that's optimizing pages or from the time a blog post is published. It's usually four to six months before you see significant, okay, I'm looking in analytics, gaining traction, I'm seeing that upward climb.

Laurel: So I would say four to six months before you really start to see traction. And then the nice thing is it just compounds and grows, so things are always going to be a little up and down with your analytics. Seasonally. But we want to see that general upward trend. just like social media, like the more you're consistent with it.

Laurel: it's just going to compound on [00:49:00] itself. 

Things do you take time in the creator space and that's what can make this such a grueling career choice. But here we are, especially if you're listening to this episode, shout outs too late. 

But. 

You already have everything you need to create incredible SEO content. You do. Especially if you are repurposing your content, which is something that I help travel creators do so that they can spend less time on their content and more time at traveling. If you have questions about how the heck you can sip more drinks on the beach while content that is actually connecting with your community is going out. And sounds like you. You can head over to my Instagram at travel content, writing for more tips there, but really you should be subscribing to my newsletter where I highlight a creator and show you how the heck they're winning at their content and how the heck you can do the same. You can find the link to sign up for that in the show notes. 

Laura: Okay, where can people find you? [00:50:00] Where do you want them to find you? 

Laurel: So, www.vineyardcreativeco.com is my website. I'm going through a rebrand. Hopefully, we'll be launching August 1st, so it's, but yeah, it's, the site is under construction right now, but I'm also on Instagram at @vineyardcreative.co

Laura: I can't wait to jump on the SEO bandwagon. And how about Pinterest? Oh my gosh. The advice from Laurel was so actionable and simple to follow through with, I can't wait, if you are trying any of this, please let me know. On Instagram at travel content, write what you think of this advice. I can't wait to hear about it. And if you are new to the podcast, we're doing a new little segment where we shout out a creator who is doing something freaking awesome. And in this episode, Featuring my lovely friend, Andrea, from Wandr Working. She also has a great podcast. It's W A N D R working. That's both her podcast and her Instagram and for us. She [00:51:00] has a remote work guide for digital nomads. 

So if you're a travel creator who wants to make a little extra cash and you're kinda not sure how to download this guide for free, we'll leave it in the show notes for you. It's also on her Instagram, but here's where you'll get remote job boards and platforms, freelancing websites in the marketplace, remote friendly companies and industries. Skill building resources and friggin online courses. Andrea is a dear friend and a wonderful creator. And I can't wait to see what the heck you create more extra cash with from this guide.

 Happy creating. I'll see you next week. Let's stop being afraid of SEO together.